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January 16, 2013 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 January 2013

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General Debate

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nasska

If there ever was an valid argument for the reintroduction of an upper house rather than the unicameral three year dictatorship we suffer under this is it.

The UK’s House of Lords voted 150 to 54 to remove the crime of “insulting” someone through words or behaviour from the 1986 Public Order Act.

A victory for common sense & a bloody nose for the petals beside themselves with worry over the feelings of the delicate minorities it may be but how could we in NZ effectively overturn similar legislation?

Ref: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21020737
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January 16, 2013 8:01am
Griff

Nasska you do no that any upper house introduced into New Zealand will be based on the “partnership” in the treaty principles
50% maori 50% the rest.

I would rather put up with the present system for all its failings than have the stone ages dictate to the rest of us.
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January 16, 2013 8:08am
nasska

Griff

If it was to be 50/50 then point taken.
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January 16, 2013 8:16am
Andrei

That Bain thread is still going strong I see.

You’ld have thought people would have run out of things to say about by now
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January 16, 2013 8:19am
skyblue

Andrei – Robin Bain was not a murderer.
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January 16, 2013 8:33am
Andrei

skyblue – you have said all that needs to be said – in six words
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January 16, 2013 8:35am
Griff

Any giving of right based on genetics is racist .
Any law that is based on genetics is racist
We are the country not just those who has a great, great, great, great,great grand father that was a Maori.
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January 16, 2013 8:35am
calendar girl

Musical chairs at TVNZ News: http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/8180525/TVNZs-head-of-news-resigns-after-nine-months . Can’t imagine that it will have any beneficial effect on quality; TVNZ has long given up on that.

Most of us recognise that the TVNZ / TV3 business model will always deliver content mediocrity. What is beyond reasonable comprehension, however, is why TVNZ remains in public ownership. As a matter of principle, the Government should wash its sullied hands of any involvement in commercial broadcasting – sell TVNZ the highest bidder, even if that is only for $1.00.
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January 16, 2013 8:43am
calendar girl

Griff – for once I find myself fully in agreement with you.
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January 16, 2013 8:47am
Pete George

McCullum looks set to drop down the test order.

Brendon McCullum’s days as a test opener for the Black Caps are numbered.

The skipper tried to temper his aggressive approach at the top of the order against South Africa, and has said his position in the order is up for review.

Coach Mike Hesson says his game is best suited to being further down the order. He says they wanted to use Peter Fulton at the top against the Proteas, but injury forced them into making changes.

That would be a start to sorting out the train wreck. But who would drop out for Fulton? Flynn’s future looks shaky, but Taylor will hopefully come back in too. Brownlie was one of the better performers in the recent tests. Williamson hasn’t been in good form.
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January 16, 2013 8:49am
Monique Watson

Yeah, I’m sorry called Griff a tit yesterday. 😉

OZ/NZ welfare disparities.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10859400

Cry me a river.
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January 16, 2013 8:55am
Griff

MW
dont apologies
Im a big boy and give out far more than I get. 😆
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January 16, 2013 8:57am
Kea

The UK’s House of Lords voted 150 to 54 to remove the crime of “insulting” someone through words or behaviour from the 1986 Public Order Act.

Being “offended” is a description of someones state of mind. It is not a description of another persons behaviour or actions. It is purely subjective.

People can feel a variety of things for a vast array of reasons, or sometimes no apparent reason at all. Some folk feel anxious and nervous at random (Panic Attacks). Others are fearful of benign things, like open spaces. The fact that someone claims “offence” means nothing at all and should never be used as a basis for law.

Every single law that has as its basis, subjective and unprovable feelings, should be removed. This is far more common than most people realise, with Protections Orders and sentencing Judges taking into account the alleged “feelings” claimed by the complainant. Often the real feeling is revenge or malice, toward the respondent. The law should restrict its self to things that can be proven. If a persons actions are at fault, they can be sentenced accordingly. If the only evidence is what someone claims to “feel” then there is no case to answer.
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January 16, 2013 8:59am
Pete George

RE TVNZ, Brian Edwards is not bery optimistic about the format suggested for the new Seven Sharp programme.

To summarise: Three presenters, panel of five, eight short bites, smart thinking, different viewpoints, plenty of laughs along the way, nothing that was on the news, conversational tone, focus on current affairs, will include interviews.

Confused? Well no more confused than the show’s hosts who, according to one TVNZ insider, reported by Rachel Glucina less than a week ago, ‘still have no clear direction about the show.’

Well, I think I can help them there. On a night when there are ‘eight short bites’ you will have 2.75 minutes per short bite in which to pursue any of the ingredients listed above including focusing on current affairs and conducting interviews, ‘in a conversational tone’ of course.

Oh hell, let’s call a spade a spade. You won’t be on a current affairs show at all. TVNZ has abandoned even the remnants of current affairs it had at 7 o’clock in favour of a light entertainment show. Time to brush up on the old soft-shoe-shuffle perhaps?

Edwards remembered…

…the term ‘morselisation’ to describe what began to happen to news and current affairs programmes in this country from around 1989…

By the sound of things Seven Sharp will be more like crumbs, and if you want some serious news and comment it may turn out to be plain crumby – as full of substance as cheap white bread.

But that may change, once TVNZ appoint a new head of news and current affairs to replace the departing Dagan and work out a direction for the new fluff show.
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January 16, 2013 9:01am
Pete George

Missed including the link: http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2013/01/tvnz-exchanges-current-affairs-for-a-mess-of-pottage-at-7pm/
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January 16, 2013 9:02am
Griff

MSM decline into pure entertainment is well known PG.
Most sane people gave up on MSM and its ability to report fact rather than providing entertainment years ago.
I purchased a new tv five years ago. The total hours it has run since is around twenty.
At least if you get the news from the net you have a chance of a balanced view.
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January 16, 2013 9:08am
nasska

Kea

Agree that in any legal situation weighing up “feelings” is a load of bollocks yet we’ll see more such inanities as the touchy feely brigade get the upper hand.

That such garbage will get enacted is inevitable, especially if the lunatics in the Greens get near the levers of power. In a worse case scenario where the Luddites prosper in 2014 it means that a lot of crap legislation is going to have to be undone in 2017 or whenever the country regains its senses & will to survive.

The trick is going to be getting a government willing to clean out the garbage.
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January 16, 2013 9:11am
Tauhei Notts

Hey, Griff.
What happened to you last night?
You usually write crap, but your contributions today are brilliant.
Keep it up.
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January 16, 2013 9:22am
Pete George

Kea:

…with Protections Orders and sentencing Judges taking into account the alleged “feelings” claimed by the complainant. Often the real feeling is revenge or malice, toward the respondent. The law should restrict its self to things that can be proven.

Do you mean just wait until you can prove that someone has carried out their threats, forced their way into a home and beaten up their ex – or even murdered them, and their kids?

“Often the real feeling” – how often? Do you have any facts on this?
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January 16, 2013 9:23am
Kea

nasska, much of this is due the feminisation of our society, which goes hand in hand with socialism in recent years. Women,( bless them), often tend towards regarding feelings as important as actual events when considering situations. In the work place I often see women pulling the “offended” card out in meetings, or simply to get their own way, without presenting any real argument or reasoning. It is just lazy and manipulative behaviour. We now have a situation where actual laws are passed on this basis!. It is not good enough and is damaging our society.

Claiming offence is most often used to shut down debate and the free expression of ideas. Things like “hate speech” for example, are really thought crimes and should not be a part of law.
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January 16, 2013 9:24am
Griff

Yeees crap that has a habit of being referenced to reasonable sources for facts.
I am of coarse a horrible leftist greenly nutter troll 😆
Who likes quoting
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
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January 16, 2013 9:28am
nasska

Griff

As a skeptic I find “rationalwiki” an invaluable source of information & comfort when the cries of the deluded become too much.

Instance the section on “The Fine Art of Baloney Detection” which is a good read for those who don’t believe in AGW or the innocence of Bain.
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January 16, 2013 9:41am
Griff

I find the purpose at RationalWiki interesting
Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement.
Documenting the full range of crank ideas.
Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism.
Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media.
Especially if you read about what they expose as the “anti-science” movement.
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January 16, 2013 9:48am
dime

ZB had Moana Mackey filling in for Annette King this morning.

Talk about light years ahead of that light weight Adern.

Dont get me wrong, shes full of shit but at least she can converse outside of sound bites.

Anyway, I googled her cause i didnt know what she looks like. I was thinking – maybe they should promote this one instead of adern. then i saw her pic. turns out shes the MP that just turns my guts whenever i see her in the house. the smug looks. she just riles me up. So i guess labour know that too..
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January 16, 2013 9:53am
dime

Griff – are you a teacher? please tell me youre on holiday and your garbage posts will evaporate in a few weeks
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January 16, 2013 9:55am
Griff

Self employed dime. Good money when I bother to work.
I Don’t work too hard. why bother? life is now not in some unknown future To many of the generation ahead of me focused on wealth not quality of life. many I knew worked hard for forty years then died as a drone.
Modern ability to comment from any where. Ive been fully mobile on the net for a decade now.
I prefer to enjoy the outdoor life while you guys push a desk towards retirement.
So sorry you will have to keep putting up with my posts
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January 16, 2013 10:05am
RRM

I don’t think she’s built for speed Dime…
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January 16, 2013 10:06am
jaba

I wonder how Phil Twyfords walk to save the kauri is going .. I guess we planted the kauri trees 4 years ago as the trees demise is the default of this nat lead Govt
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January 16, 2013 10:11am
Griff

RRM
Can you share the path for rip. I dont need the specific cite just the url and correct format to permanently delete a cite will do.
Someone is to dense to bother with.

Your move towards the right echos my move towards the left.
To much overexposure to the far right nuttery has that effect.
If they are so fill of shite on one subject the rest of their philosophy is also called into disrepute.
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January 16, 2013 10:13am
Weihana

RightNow (4,810) Says:
January 15th, 2013 at 11:32 pm

weihana “Equilibrium climate sensitivity estimates on the other hand are obtained from integrating ocean temperatures over a long period of time.”

Since the increase in OHC is decelerating it would seem intuitive to expect the resultant ECS to be lower than TCR

Nuccitelli et al (2012) contradicts that view.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/nuccitelli-et-al-2012.html
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January 16, 2013 10:18am
Manolo

Sad. Today’s “culture” http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8181706/App-developers-game-an-overnight-hit
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January 16, 2013 10:22am
dime

so youre self employed. have a heap of free time and choose to spend said free time on here? “debating” some fantasy about man warming up the planet and the only way to fix it is to tax people more..

“I prefer to enjoy the outdoor life while you guys push a desk towards retirement.” outside, on a lappie or tablet talking shit. wow you win the lifestyle award.
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January 16, 2013 10:30am
calendar girl

PG @ 9:01 – You appear to prefer fiddling with a model of (government-owned) business that is functionally dead. Moreover – the most important aspect – there is no valid reason why, in this multi-channel / multi-device communications age, the NZ Government should continue to own any commercial broadcasting business.

I reiterate, “… sell TVNZ to the highest bidder, even if that is only for $1.00.” It’s primarily a matter of principle, not of programming. But I guess you cling to the hope of a “balanced” approach to nationalised commercial entities.
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January 16, 2013 10:31am
Weihana

Pete George (15,805) Says:
January 16th, 2013 at 6:51 am

Weihana,

I’m a believer in the law of accelerating returns. Looking at the wide range of emerging technologies from artificial food to nanotechnology to biomedical engineering to the exponential rise in raw processing power It would seem more likely that they will live lives immeasurably more advanced than ours.

Not so much pessimistic but wary of an inevitable crunch. The only thing we don’t know is how soon it will be, 10 years, 100, 1000, but one day earth’s gravy train will derail.

With accelerating population and use of finite resources the chances are it will be sooner rather than later.

There will be a number of things this century that we run out of and can’t find a replacement for.

The “law of accelerating returns” is an earth sized ponzi delusion.

Resources may be finite but the usefulness of the same resource can be increased without the need for more physical resources. Moreover, if you acknowledge that this crunch could be 1000 years away then the prediction becomes meaningless. Given the rate of technological and scientific progress it would be pointless to speculate on what advancements would be available so far into the future to deal with any limiting on physical resources.

In any case, it would appear that in the short term there is more evidence for sustained and predictable exponential growth in technology than there is for an impending crunch in global resources. These sort of Malthusian predictions have been made for a long time without coming true. On the other hand technological progress is an ongoing reality.
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January 16, 2013 10:33am
bereal

Griff seems to have a very high opinion of himself.

The only time his posts are gramatically correct are when he cuts and pastes others comments. otherwise he
seems to be borderline litterate at best.

Poor old Griff.

To, too. There ,their. Site, cite. Course, coarse. Now, know. Apologies, apologise. Etc, etc.

I bet he really is a school teacher, and also a fibber.
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January 16, 2013 10:36am
Manolo

Self employed. Good money when I bother to work.
I Don’t work too hard. why bother?

A euphemism for a bludger and loafer. The alarmist is another idler as bad as the infamous Ure.
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January 16, 2013 10:44am
dime

“I Don’t work too hard. why bother?”

ya do wonder if thats code for – im not capable of earning a high income so i dont try. instead i spend my time advocating tax increases for the rich. the rich must be punished!!!
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January 16, 2013 10:48am
RRM

Here’s the how-to Griff…

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/gun_control_in_the_us.html#comment-1062679
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January 16, 2013 10:51am
Pete George

calendar girl: “You appear to prefer fiddling with a model of (government-owned) business that is functionally dead.”

I’ve got no idea where you get that idea. I made no comment at all on “fiddling with a model”, I (along with Brian Edwards) was criticising the progression to the latest model show.
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January 16, 2013 10:52am
Griff

cite is cite
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cite
4.to call to mind; recall:
If you type in site it does not work.
Computers are like that The code must be correct.

By the way beryl I have often admitted I am functionally illiterate. Does that prove a lack of intelligence? Or difficulty in writing/spelling? For me coming from my English writing skills when I first started posting on KB to my present ability is a massive achievement.

I bet he really is a school teacher, .

As you are the one often projecting school teacher with you focus on spelling rather than content. meh
I have often placed you as a retired and somewhat failed school teacher
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January 16, 2013 10:53am
Griff

Thanks RRM 😉
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January 16, 2013 10:54am
RightNow

Weihana, wrong way Nuticcelli and his nutty buddies have been pwned on their “paper”. Google it.
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January 16, 2013 11:04am
bereal

To answer your question Griff.
“By the way beryl, I have often admitted I am functionally illiterate. Does that prove a lack of intelligence ? ”
Yes.

i’ll leave you alone now Griff, you’r no fun at all, far too easy to provoke.
(Which is often the case with paranoids obsessed with a single topic.)
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January 16, 2013 11:07am
RightNow

Actually here you go Weihana:
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/publication-of-reply-to-comment-on-ocean-heat-content-and-earths-radiation-imbalance-ii-relation-to-climate-shifts-by-nuccitelli-et-al-by-douglass-an/
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January 16, 2013 11:09am
Manolo

I am functionally illiterate. Does that prove a lack of intelligence?

Yes. A million times, yes.
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January 16, 2013 11:10am
RightNow

And, Weihana, a glance at the bottom graph at this page tells the story:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037596011201119X
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January 16, 2013 11:12am
Pete George

“To make the kind of heartfelt apology I am making now without the help of drugs would be impossible, and so when it came to convincing millions of people that I am a decent human being who is capable of actual regret, I needed an edge,”
– Lance Armstrong

http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrong-admits-to-using-performanceenhanci,30912/
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January 16, 2013 11:14am
Griff

O 700 and ignore 0 2000
dear dear
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January 16, 2013 11:15am
emmess

Anyone seen the returning soon ad for Campbell Live.
Seriously and I am not making this up, I thought it was an ad for the Labour Party until the end.
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January 16, 2013 11:24am
Pete George

Yep emmess, seen it and I got the same impression.

So did Whale, comments and video clip: John Campbell comes out of the closet, must be the week for it
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January 16, 2013 11:31am
krazykiwi

I’m so hungry, I could eat a horse 🙂
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January 16, 2013 11:39am
Mary Rose

>he
seems to be borderline litterate at best.

litterate?
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January 16, 2013 11:43am
Mary Rose

Am I missing something? Anyone know what the ‘game’ is on the google.co.nz home page?
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January 16, 2013 11:48am
Griff

A waste of time?
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January 16, 2013 11:59am
snowy

Emmess – Exactly what I thought when I saw it
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January 16, 2013 12:00pm
hinamanu

Interesting I’ll be called a conspiracy theorist as usual with this statement as if I’m printing the headlines

Goldman Sachs employees are awarding themselves $8 billion after receiving billions in bailouts from the treasury

And there will probably be another QE after 4 already.

Meanwhile former Goldman exec and ex New Jersey governor John Corazine who could not account for $1.5 b is not now facing court or civil action.

It’s all in msm folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo74myC3bqY
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January 16, 2013 12:39pm
Joseph Carpenter

Hmmm, this doesn’t bode well. In a sudden change to long standing policy Germany’s Bundesbank is repatriating it’s overseas gold investments (it has the second largest gold reserve holdings in the world with 95% held off-shore), starting with demanding all it’s bullion from the France (14%), USA (40%) and Japan (8%) reserve banks be physically withdrawn and returned to the Fatherland.
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January 16, 2013 12:44pm
Manolo

Studies anyone? http://health.msn.co.nz/healthnews/8593713/fast-food-link-to-asthma-eczema-severity
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January 16, 2013 12:55pm
Andrei

it could also be contributing to the severity of asthma and eczema.

Have you ever noticed, Manolo, that it is things that the ninnies disapprove of that lead to adverse health outcomes and not things they do approve like tofu or carrot sticks.

Let me tell you how they do it, they go fishing and with thousands of maladies that afflict the human trace by the laws of chance one or more will appear in the group of children who eat the disapproved food and at a rate that can be quoted as being statistically significant – voila, the paper, the press release and the gushing reporterage.

They ramble on about “junk” food but it is their science that is “junk”.
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January 16, 2013 1:12pm
cha

Lovely.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/gene-rosen-sandy-hook-conspiracy-155033813.html
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January 16, 2013 1:28pm
Left Right and Centre

Kea…

I’m hanging off your comments mate… lapping it up like a cat with milk…. dare I say adding value to my thinking….
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January 16, 2013 1:33pm
Griff

lick lick
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January 16, 2013 1:35pm
RightNow

“Anyone know what the ‘game’ is on the google.co.nz home page?”

112th anniversary of the zamboni. Someone at google has too much time on their hands. And the game is boring.
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January 16, 2013 1:40pm
RightNow

Rationalwiki (who on their about page admit their name is somewhat ironic)

Remember, the truth is not a popularity contest.
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January 16, 2013 1:53pm
TheContrarian

@Griff and Nasska

I have been a RationalWiki user for nearly 5 years and contribute pretty much every day. Can you guess which one I am?
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January 16, 2013 1:55pm
liarbors a joke

Scum…put away the wet bus ticket and get out the sledgehammer

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8185024/Gangster-found-hiding-under-a-bed
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January 16, 2013 2:54pm
Weihana

RightNow (4,813) Says:
January 16th, 2013 at 11:04 am

Weihana, wrong way Nuticcelli and his nutty buddies have been pwned on their “paper”. Google it.

RightNow (4,814) Says:
January 16th, 2013 at 11:12 am

And, Weihana, a glance at the bottom graph at this page tells the story:

I think the link you’re looking for is:
http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/DK_reply_PLA_2012.pdf

Or the original paper:
http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~douglass/papers/PLA_21192_proofs_plusFigs1_2.pdf

While I would not scoff at David Douglass’ expertise in quite the manner you have referred to Nuccitelli, I can’t quite understand the argument that OHC trends on timescales which stretch across “climate shifts” are meaningless. Surely by the same token his TOA calculation which implies negative feedback cannot be extrapolated to the long term. Indeed he does note that this was not the central point of the letter, though it does appear to be the basis for your view that equilibrium climate sensitivity is below 2 deg C.
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January 16, 2013 3:04pm
Kea

The only time his posts are gramatically correct are when he cuts and pastes others comments. otherwise he
seems to be borderline litterate at best.

I do not knock Griff for that. What I dispute is his reasoning on the AGW issue. On most other issues I largely agree with him.

However, his literacy does make me wonder how well he really understands the material he presents. That is not to question his intelligence, just his understanding of the issues raised.

Sadly Griff is getting very bitter and twisted, and is now chatting with that awful little fake poser RRM on how to “RIP” people who he does not agree with and who make him look bad. It is unfortunate as Griff is smart enough and is not a total oxygen thief like RRM.
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January 16, 2013 3:18pm
RightNow

Weihana – good job finding free copies of the papers, I didn’t have the time (at the time).

I contended OHC increase was decelerating, a premise of my argument for ECS < 2 deg C.

The short of it is – I don't see any argument against my contention that OHC increase has decelerated. Do you?
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January 16, 2013 3:31pm
dime

RRM is a good dude. a tad misguided with his voting record is all!

not sure why he RIP’d you though? that was a bit weird.
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January 16, 2013 3:33pm
Griff

It could be presumed that the mechanisms for deep heat transfer would have effect well below 2000

This is a travesty 😆 we dont have the data
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January 16, 2013 4:06pm
Kea

RRM is a good dude. a tad misguided with his voting record is all!

not sure why he RIP’d you though? that was a bit weird.

RRM goes around trying to claim the moral high ground and presenting a facade to the world. I can see through it and it scares him. I deal with some unlovely creeps in the real world and I would pick RRM as one of them. It is easy when you know what to look for. He is not mis-guided. He is a bad person.
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January 16, 2013 4:14pm
thedavincimode

krazykiwi

We finally know what happened to Mr Ed.
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January 16, 2013 4:14pm
bhudson

He [RRM] is a bad person.

No, he’s not. He’s just smarter than your average goat.
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January 16, 2013 4:18pm
RightNow

I often find RRM’s comments to be very good. He’s very honest about the current state of left wing politicians in NZ.
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January 16, 2013 4:26pm
Kea

bhudson, RightNow, if RRM had his way, people who disagree with him, and revealed the problems with his thinking, would be banned from KB. That tells me all I need to know about him. It really is a bit cheeky people like that using a public forum, but that is typical of the hypocrisy of many lefties.
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January 16, 2013 4:33pm
Griff

TheContrarian
No not even going to try
you did encourage me to look at the reasons why people joined
conservopiedia seems to be the majority reason. Rwiki is a good antidote for nuttery
Back to the fringe far right conservative position being its own worst enemy as in my comment to rrm earlier
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January 16, 2013 4:34pm
RightNow

I’ve been KB’ing for about 6 years Kea and can’t remember RRM ever advocating for someone to be banned.
I’m not claiming to have read every comment posted, but it doesn’t seem to fit with what I have observed.
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January 16, 2013 4:36pm
Kea

RightNow, good on you for speaking as you find. Hard to fault that 🙂
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January 16, 2013 4:38pm
Pete George

Kea, RRM comments here with (usually) much more sense, dignity and fairness in debate than you. You frequently resort to over the top abuse and name calling when you disagree with someone. Unlike you RRM has earned a fair bit of respect here.
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January 16, 2013 4:41pm
Kea

Pete George, your full of shit and are eating away at your own credibility. I have been subject to numerous personal attacks that do not even touch upon the issues raised. Yet you say nothing about those. I use personal attack way less than many of your ilk.
Your another pretender to the moral high ground, who is a total fake.
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January 16, 2013 4:46pm
nasska

Kea

Have to put my oar in & back Dime & Right Now. RRM is moving to the right…..progress is slow but the end is in sight.

And he does a bloody good job of getting up Reddy’s nose! 🙂
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January 16, 2013 4:46pm
Fletch

Very very weird stuff around the Sandy Hook shootings.

http://youtu.be/Wx9GxXYKx_8

I am only up to the part where the parents of one of the little girls ‘shot’ set up a Facebook support page for her, before they even knew she was dead. And then there is the picture of her taken with president Obama, even though she is supposedly ‘dead’.

I really don’t know what to think about all this.

Watch and then give your opinion.
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January 16, 2013 4:52pm
Kea

Fair enough nasska, but I get tired of these lefties claiming the moral high ground. What underlines their philosophy is nothing moral, decent or good. It is a political doctrine that has caused the deaths of millions and untold suffering on millions more. They of course try and distance themselves from those excesses, but their thinking is identical to those who committed those excesses. Mao was out for the little guy and the rights of the common man, he wanted social justice too. It is only when the left have total control that you see their true colours. Some of us don’t think they should be given that chance again. Lefties have a belief that only a certain elite are qualified to decide the fate of society. Decisions based on the socialist creed of envy, jealousy and total control by any means.
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January 16, 2013 4:55pm
Weihana

Rightnow,

The short of it is – I don’t see any argument against my contention that OHC increase has decelerated. Do you?

Sure, that the trend is calculated based on short term variation whilst neglecting longer trends.
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January 16, 2013 5:01pm
Griff

Its all the Kenyans fault
In between sending out death squads and saying Allahu Akbar five times a day…..

Conspiracy theories have flooded the Internet since Adam Lanza gunned down 20 first graders in Newtown, Conn. last month.

The Sandy Hook elementary “truthers” have even begun harassing a man who was lauded as a hero after the shooting, Salon reported Tuesday.

Gene Rosen found six children at the end of his driveway on Dec. 14 and sheltered them inside his home at the time of the massacre, The Associated Press reported last month.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/sandy-hook-shooting-conspiracy-theories-2013-1#ixzz2I6ivII00
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January 16, 2013 5:01pm
TheContrarian

@Griff

Well, if you have been following RationalWiki for awhile (particulalry the talkpages and saloon bar – and if you follow the recent changes) you’ll have no doubt seen many a comment from myself. I spent a fair bit of time shooting the shit on RW over the last 5 years
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January 16, 2013 5:05pm
nasska

Kea

…” Lefties have a belief that only a certain elite are qualified to decide the fate of society. Decisions based on the socialist creed of envy, jealousy and total control by any means.”…..

Spot on but we don’t always know how people develop their political beliefs. For all we know young RRM might have been brought up in a house with a picture of Michael Joseph Savage hanging over the mantelpiece of a small coal fire & read chapters of Das Kapital instead of stories of Goldilocks & the Three Bears.

The main thing is that he’s seeing the light. 🙂
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January 16, 2013 5:05pm
TheContrarian

The Sandy Hook conspiracy nonsense is revolting. 20 children are dead.
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January 16, 2013 5:06pm
Kea

Griff, I really don’t know why the conspiracy nuts bother with all that far fetched stuff. Obama has done more than enough real stuff. He is possibly the biggest war monger ever to hold office and I am concerned what 2013 will bring. Look up how many countries he has launched military actions in. Check out what he is doing in Africa. Just what is admitted, no conspiracy theories.

Obama is a dangerous man, even more so because he is exempt from the same media treatment and scrutiny Bush was subjected to. (It’s because he looks more like his dad than his mum). If you don’t believe me, wrap a towel around your head and go live in one of the countries he is “helping”.
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January 16, 2013 5:11pm
Kea

For all we know young RRM might have been brought up in a house with a picture of Michael Joseph Savage hanging over the mantelpiece of a small coal fire & read chapters of Das Kapital instead of stories of Goldilocks & the Three Bears.

The main thing is that he’s seeing the light.

True. My parents are Labour voters and very left wing. They were just moaning about the Tories to me the other day. Of course they have not kept up with the times and do not realise the left no longer represent the interests of the common working man. My natural leaning is the left, provided it is based on outcomes for people, not ideology.
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January 16, 2013 5:16pm
TheContrarian

@Kea

‘My natural leaning is the left, provided it is based on outcomes for people, not ideology.”

Well said. I agree.
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January 16, 2013 5:17pm
RRM

😳 Awww, shucks!

Any day of having no idea what forum user “Kea” is saying is a good day!

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_tigers_of_wrath.html
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January 16, 2013 5:19pm
Griff

Rational wiki has been a good conformation of my belief structure.
To see my views on religion and science echoed so closely and completely in a outside media was a revelation
There is a great dearth of informed and logical people out there. In both my personal and professional life the sane rational and intelligent people I meet are few and far between.
I find blogs such as ben goldacre and skepchick amusing as well.
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January 16, 2013 5:20pm
TheContrarian

Skepchick bothers me.

Check out AronRa and Potholer54 on youtube – they are good too.

Do you have an account on RW? If so I’ll rock over and mess with your userpage 🙂
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January 16, 2013 5:21pm
RightNow

“Sure, that the trend is calculated based on short term variation whilst neglecting longer trends.”

Well on that basis, if you drew a straight line in the “average” temperature graphs from 1750 to 2012 there would be a trend of around 0.07 deg C per decade (or 0.7 deg C per century), and the rise in the late 20th century could be characterised as a short term variation.
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January 16, 2013 5:28pm
cha

The Sandy Hook conspiracy nonsense is revolting. 20 children are dead.

All of which is faithfully regurgitated by shameless repeaters like Fletch.
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January 16, 2013 5:29pm
Kea

I see RRM is missing me again. After he ~~stuck his head up his arse~~ RIP me, he mentions the fact constantly, along with saying he is not missing me. Maybe it is a cry for help and he has a remnant of a soul in his bleak dead commie heart. 😉
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January 16, 2013 5:35pm
nickb

Now we hear McCullum is dropping down the order…

My question is, if he is not wicketkeeping, and he is no longer willing to bat at the top and continue a passable to below par job as a test opener (as the latest in a long line of very poor test openers – think Cumming, Redmond, Papps, McIntosh) then why is he in the team (apart from Hesson’s nepotism).

You cannot tell me we do not have one better specialist middle order batsman in the country who will be more consistent and value his wicket more than McCullum?

People are saying to bring Ronchi in as keeper and promote Watling to open as a batsman only. 3 wicketkeepers in the side does not seem a balanced team to me.
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January 16, 2013 5:39pm
Kea

@Kea

‘My natural leaning is the left, provided it is based on outcomes for people, not ideology.”

Well said. I agree.

TheContrarian, If we assume good intent, both left & right want the best for people. The point of difference is how to best achieve the desired outcomes.

Where I depart from the left is the way they put ideology ahead of outcomes for people, and the observation that the left is prone to hidden agendas and ulterior motives, with little regard for people.
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January 16, 2013 5:41pm

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