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December 7, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 7 December 2012

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General Debate

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Fletch

eszett, I’m not talking about fetishes or any kind of “jobs”.
As I said, I was talking about coitus, and whether these other stimulations are equal in value and purpose.
I would say not.

Aristotle had a form of logic he called Teleology – a belief in empirical observation and logical deduction which assumes that all things have a purpose and that the purpose of each thing can be discerned from its design and function. Anything that deviates from that design and function is therefore not normal.

See what I did there?
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December 7, 2012 2:33pm
Keeping Stock

My wife is generally right on the money. And she said to me this morning “How come Tamati Coffey is talking about his “civil union partner” now, when he did the whole “marriage” thing in the women’s magazines? I think he’s trying score points.”
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December 7, 2012 2:34pm
Scott Chris

How’s that bomb making coming along Redbaiter?
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December 7, 2012 2:51pm
Weihana

Fletch (3,556) Says:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

eszett, I’m not talking about fetishes or any kind of “jobs”.
As I said, I was talking about coitus, and whether these other stimulations are equal in value and purpose.
I would say not.

Aristotle had a form of logic he called Teleology – a belief in empirical observation and logical deduction which assumes that all things have a purpose and that the purpose of each thing can be discerned from its design and function. Anything that deviates from that design and function is therefore not normal.

The human body was not designed. While teleological language can be used to describe evolution, it is not necessary and even misleading. Whilst certain developments may serve an evolutionary function, evolution itself does not have a purpose per se.

So in terms of function the anus and the reproductive organs are obviously not equal, at least not intrinsically. But whether “stimulations” (lmao) of each are equal in “value” is a subjective determination. In other words: whatever floats your boat.
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December 7, 2012 3:05pm
Fletch

Weihana, yet still…
As Harriet points out – the anus is not a sexual organ.
Two men or two women can try and lego™ it with any of the available orifices and still will not be performing sexual intercourse. What you have will be a cruel imitation; a counterfeit; a parody of real life-giving coitus that can result in a new son or daughter.

It is this sexual contact (coitus), and that of the resulting children that marriage is built around and serves.
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December 7, 2012 3:11pm
hmmokrightitis

Exactly. Its only allowed if you lie together in the shape of the cross. THEN its OK 🙂
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December 7, 2012 3:23pm
Longknives

What is this ‘Red Tube’ you speak of Weihana?…I have no knowledge of such sites……
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December 7, 2012 3:27pm
Longknives

Does anyone else wonder how in the hell we still have a Tourism industry??

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10852561
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December 7, 2012 3:29pm
Weihana

Longknives,

Still casually ducking behind the curtain at United Video eh? 🙂
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December 7, 2012 3:34pm
Harriet

Ezett#

“…What about the human mouth, Harriet?…And what about hands?…”

Like the anus, they are not designed for sexuality either.

Sodomy is a human construct and has morphed into the religion of homosexuality. 😎
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December 7, 2012 3:45pm
Harriet

Pete George#

“No one is designed to have sodomy!”…..”Then shouldn’t they have designed a square arsehole? Or at least increased the separation a bit?”

I can see how animals could get confused between an anus and a vagina – but 4% of the human population?

C’mon Pete…..you know sodomy is not ‘natural’ for humans to partake in….as our sexual organs are designed to complement eachother.

Ezettt thinks that the mouth is a sexual organ – now that is an idiot Pete! 😎
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December 7, 2012 3:49pm
Harriet

Gays don’t even compliment each other – so how the fuck would they really understand sexuality! 😎
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December 7, 2012 3:54pm
hmmokrightitis

Nah, Im with Ezett on this one Harriet, count me in for mouth as well. Reminds me, must head home to the wife soon 🙂
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December 7, 2012 3:55pm
Weihana

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weijnvNCxqY
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December 7, 2012 4:11pm
Ryan Sproull

Gays don’t even compliment each other – so how the fuck would they really understand sexuality!

Oh, I wouldn’t say that. Plenty of gay folk say very nice things about each other.
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December 7, 2012 4:26pm
Harriet

Fletch#

“…..Aristotle had a form of logic he called Teleology – a belief in empirical observation and logical deduction which assumes that all things have a purpose and that the purpose of each thing can be discerned from its design and function. Anything that deviates from that design and function is therefore not normal….”

That’s an absolute truth as the natural fit to the human wrist is the human hand, and the natural fit to the human vagina is the human penis, and the natural fit to the human anus is excrement! Only animals could ever get confused about that!

The natural fit to the human head for 96% of the poulation is the human brain! 😎
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December 7, 2012 4:26pm
Ryan Sproull

the natural fit to the human vagina is the human penis

That does tend to depend on the particular humans in question.
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December 7, 2012 4:36pm
Ryan Sproull

Actually, that raises a bit of a question, Harriet. What would God’s purpose be in creating such a variety of sizes of vaginas and penises? Should a physically incompatible different-sex couple consider themselves to be missing God’s hint by pursuing a relationship when they should rather be finding a more complementarily bodied partner?
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December 7, 2012 4:38pm
eszett

Fletch (3,557) Says:
December 7th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

eszett, I’m not talking about fetishes or any kind of “jobs”.
As I said, I was talking about coitus, and whether these other stimulations are equal in value and purpose.
I would say not.

Why? Just because you say so?

They are sexual acts, the same way as intercourse is a sexual act. It’s no different. Human sexuality is way more than just reproduction, 99% of sexual intercourse is not intended for reproduction.

Here’s what you are trying to do, Fletch. You despise homosexuals and want to rationalise it by creating characteristics that include heterosexuals and exclude homosexuals. It’s the classical us vs them tactic, we are good, they are bad.

You reduce it to sexuality, even though there is way more to human relationships than just sex.

We have sex in a good way, they have sex in a bad way. Unfortunately for you straight people engage in the same kind sexual activity as gay people do.

We have sex to reproduce, they don’t. Well as I pointed out, most of the time straight people don’t have sex to reproduce.

What we have is natural, what they have is unnatural. However, most of human behavior is unnatural (as in not observed in other species) but homosexuality is actually observed in other species.

All this is just an desperate attempt to rationalise your prejudices and your preconceptions and justify why you should discriminate against homosexuals.
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December 7, 2012 4:42pm
Harriet

“…..Oh, I wouldn’t say that. Plenty of gay folk say very nice things about each other….”

They still don’t physicly compliment each other Ryan. Where as a husband and wife do.

Gays also have brains Ryan, so how come gays don’t realise that ‘Marriage equality’ is impossable to achieve?
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December 7, 2012 4:46pm
Harriet

Your getting REALLY DEPERATE RYAN!
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December 7, 2012 4:48pm
Ryan Sproull

They still don’t physicly compliment each other Ryan. Where as a husband and wife do.

Yeah, I was making a joke because you used the word “compliment” when you meant “complement”.

Your getting REALLY DEPERATE RYAN!

Oh, hardly. I’m just following your “everything fits together or doesn’t for a reason” reasoning through to a few logical conclusions.

I’m sure you’re aware that there’s a great variety of genital sizes out there, and there are plenty of penis-vagina combinations that are about as physically complementary as your penis-anus example. If the penis not fitting easily into the anus is a sign of God not intending for it to happen, doesn’t that mean the same for straight couples where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina?
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December 7, 2012 4:52pm
Harriet

eszett#

“…..What we have is natural, what they have is unnatural. However, most of human behavior is unnatural (as in not observed in other species) but homosexuality is actually observed in other species….”

Animals could get confused between a vagina and an anus – but 4% of the human population?

Ezett believes that 96% of humans behave unnaturally! 😎
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December 7, 2012 4:53pm
Redbaiter

http://youtu.be/AAZhh2T5viA
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December 7, 2012 5:00pm
Ryan Sproull

What you’re saying, Harriet, is that gay (and straight) couples who engage in anal sex should stop and say, “Now, hold on. This doesn’t fit. We’re probably not meant to do that.”

And you’ve suggested they’re idiots if they don’t think that.

But what happens when a straight couple engages in vaginal sex and finds it doesn’t fit? Would they be idiotic not to think, “Now, hold on. This doesn’t fit. We’re probably not meant to do that.”?

And if there’s a difference, please explain what it is.
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December 7, 2012 5:00pm
Harriet

“…..If the penis not fitting easily into the anus is a sign of God not intending for it to happen, doesn’t that mean the same for straight couples where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina?…”

No.

One is a matter of sodomy and one is a matter of size!
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December 7, 2012 5:04pm
Ryan Sproull

No.

One is a matter of sodomy and one is a matter of size!

But you’ve just said that what demonstrates sodomy’s wrongness is a matter of size. They’re not physically compatible because God didn’t intend for it to occur.

How is that different with a straight couple whose genitals do not fit together? Isn’t that an obvious sign that God doesn’t want them to have sex?
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December 7, 2012 5:09pm
Reid

I’m sure you’re aware that there’s a great variety of genital sizes out there, and there are plenty of penis-vagina combinations that are about as physically complementary as your penis-anus example. If the penis not fitting easily into the anus is a sign of God not intending for it to happen, doesn’t that mean the same for straight couples where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina?

See this is possibly why blogs aren’t yet considered “mainstream.”
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December 7, 2012 5:12pm
Ryan Sproull

See this is possibly why blogs aren’t considered “mainstream.”

I’m asking the questions the mainstream media are too afraid to confront!
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December 7, 2012 5:14pm
Harriet

“…..And if there’s a difference, please explain what it is….’

Firstly Ryan, anal ‘sex’ is not sex but sodomy as a bottom is not a human sexual organ. GP’s will tell you that.

Of course there is a differance Ryan -the natural order of things- vaginas and penises procreate – arseholes don’t![go on Ryan, find a medical exception, a statistical abberation where some women ‘ended up’ with a foetus in her bowel] 😎
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December 7, 2012 5:14pm
eszett

Firstly Ryan, anal ‘sex’ is not sex

Yes, Bill Clinton was the last one who tried the “oral sex is not sex” line
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December 7, 2012 5:17pm
Harriet

“…..I’m asking the questions the mainstream media are too afraid to confront!…”

Right!……like…’some’ penises don’t fit ‘properly’ into ‘some’ vaginas?

You are getting VERY DESPERATE RYAN. 😎
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December 7, 2012 5:17pm
Ryan Sproull

Of course there is a differance Ryan -the natural order of things- vaginas and penises procreate – arseholes don’t![go on Ryan, find a medical exception, a statistical abberation where some women ‘ended up’ with a foetus in her bowel]

Then you’re saying that the wrongness of anal penetration has nothing to do with the physical incompatibility of sizes, but is purely about not being able to produce children.

Clearly you don’t think the wrongness is based on physical incompatibility, because you’re happy for incompatibly sized straight couples to have sex.
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December 7, 2012 5:19pm
Harriet

Now ezett is baseing sexuality on Bill Clintons achievments – rooting a wife who wears pyjamas!
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December 7, 2012 5:20pm
Reid

Can I ask why we are talking about the homo act? It’s pretty gay. No-one’s mentioned sling sex yet which surprises me given just about everything has been but anyway, what does it have to do with anything?

P.S. I’m also disappointed we haven’t yet discussed lesbian sex for that could be very relevant, possibly.
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December 7, 2012 5:22pm
Harriet

Ryan #

Is excrement the ‘natural’ fit to the human anus Ryan, or is it the penis?

What is the ‘natural’ purpose of an anus Ryan?
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December 7, 2012 5:23pm
eszett

I’d rather not base sexuality on the nonsense that you’re writing here, Harriet.
You are either a troll or know very little about sexuality, human or otherwise. Most likely both.
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December 7, 2012 5:23pm
Harriet

What’s the purpose of semen Ryan?

Why does each male produce millions of semen Ryan?

What are the two purposes of a penis Ryan?
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December 7, 2012 5:26pm
labrator

What is the purpose of trolling Ryan?
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December 7, 2012 5:29pm
Harriet

“….You are either a troll or know very little about sexuality, human or otherwise….”

Is a strapon dick a natural part of human sexuality Ezett?
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December 7, 2012 5:29pm
Pauleastbay

A question for MMP experts.
Peters sacks Horan and Horan remains in Parliament as an independent.

NZF then bring in a new MP to replace Horan.

So there is now an extra MP and vote floating in the ether.

Whats to stop the PM giving one of the National MP’s the arse , making him go independent( but secretly he’s still going to vote with the govt.

Then the Government bring in another MP to cover the one whose now and independent thereby increasing thier majority.

Is this possible?
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December 7, 2012 6:02pm
Manolo

The fundamentalist refuses to budge: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/05/egypt-interior-ministry-clashes-between-president-supporters-opponents-kill-at/
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December 7, 2012 6:05pm
liarbors a joke

Thats why mmp is a dog PEB and it needs to be dumped. But no, stupid kiwis voted to keep it.
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December 7, 2012 6:23pm
eszett

NZF then bring in a new MP to replace Horan.

PEB, I don’t think NZF can bring in a new MP until Horan resigns.
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December 7, 2012 6:38pm
Pauleastbay

@ eszett

Ta
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December 7, 2012 6:42pm
Monique Watson

Is it still jokes after 6pm?

A lorry driver goes on a date with a sexy girl. Afterwards they go back to her parents place. He starts fucking her on the couch when he feels the barrel of a gun on his neck.
He turns around sees her father is standing there. He says:”if you’re a real fucking lorry driver you’ll be able to back that fucker out of there with a full load”.
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December 7, 2012 6:44pm
Viking2

Pyes Pa pack rapists sentenced

Posted at 12:44pm Friday 07th Dec, 2012
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Five Tauranga men found guilty of pack raping a woman at Pyes Pa last year have been sentenced to 11-13 years’ jail.

Samuel Owen Weenink, 20, Corey Clinton Owens, 20, and Dylan John O’Neill, 21, are sentenced to 12 years and nine months’ jail while co-offender Richard James Cameron Morton, 21, received a sentence of 11 years four month

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/36028-pyes-pa-pack-rapists-sentenced.html

That sort of tends to make these arse ends a bit quiet.
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December 7, 2012 6:46pm
Viking2

The Nazi’s are out in force.
Mr Dunne’s favourite pastime is getting nasty with RETROSPECTIVE Tax Collecting.

Accountants slam IRD allowance change
Last updated 14:43 07/12/2012

The Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA) has joined the chorus of dismay over the Inland Revenue Department’s decision to retrospectively tax accommodation allowances.

The accounting industry body says it is “deeply concerned” about the new tax, and says it will affect the Christchurch rebuild.

The change will have a significant impact on industries which rely on itinerant workers, such as agriculture, the film industry, and the effort to rebuild the quake-shattered city, NZICA says.

The new rule, announced in a statement yesterday, will mean that employers have to pay PAYE on any accommodation allowance an employee gets when working away from home.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8051169/Accountants-slam-IRD-allowance-change

Time to hassel those luvely and cuddly National MP’s guys. Ypou know all those you think are just so great.
What will be next?
My info is that they are issuing banks with 100% collection notices on overdue debts.
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December 7, 2012 7:08pm
Griff

FOB Kid

The kindergarten class had to come up with a sentence using the colors green, pink, and yellow. So the teacher calls up every single kid in the classroom. But she forgot to call on the Samoan kid. So she asks him to please step up to the front of the class and recite his sentence. So the Samoan boy went up to the front of the class and said, “The phone went green green green. I pink up the phone and say yellow”!
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December 7, 2012 8:02pm
Viking2

http://www.toilette-humor.com/christmas/christmas_balloons.shtml
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December 7, 2012 8:49pm
kowtow

monique,
in light of today’s theme I think first the lorry driver would a taken a guy home and the dad wouldn’t have give a shit as the full load would be going up the chocolate passage,and other than a dose of AIDS ,Dad wouldn’t have to worry about his boy getting pregnant,seeing as how turd thumping is real sex according to more than a few posters here.

But then maybe he would have stopped them as he woulldn’t have wanted shit all over his couch.
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December 7, 2012 9:01pm
Reid

Tell me this isn’t one of the best guitar solo’s you’ve ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XBnj80nRpo
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December 7, 2012 9:51pm
RightNow

“P.S. I’m also disappointed we haven’t yet discussed lesbian sex for that could be very relevant, possibly.”

Don’t you dare ‘kiss of death’ lesbian sex. It’s art.
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December 7, 2012 10:04pm
Ryan Sproull

Is excrement the ‘natural’ fit to the human anus Ryan, or is it the penis?

What is the ‘natural’ purpose of an anus Ryan?

Certainly the anus evolved for excreting, Harriet. The fact that it feels good for men to have a penis pushed inside, stimulating the prostate from the inside, is just a happy accident for those men who are sexually attracted to other men (or women who enjoy using a dildo on their male partner).

Have you seen my point, Harriet? You say that God doesn’t want penises inside anuses because they don’t fit. I pointed out that some penises don’t fit inside some vaginas. You ignored that and started talking about procreation. I told you that it’s clear your standard for what God wants or doesn’t want is procreation, not whether or not something fits, because you’ve ignored my point. And then you ignored that and started asking me what the natural purpose of an anus is.

So try just sticking to that one first point, Harriet.

Are you saying that the fact that a penis does not fit easily inside an anus is evidence that God does not want people to have anal sex?

If so, is the fact that some penises do not fit easily into some vaginas also evidence that God does not want those people to have vaginal sex?

If you start talking about procreation, what you’re saying is that how things fit or don’t fit together is irrelevant (so why have you gone on about it?)

If you don’t talk about procreation, what is the difference that makes God design penises that won’t fit into vaginas when he wants them to at the same time as designing penises that won’t fit into anuses to show he doesn’t want them to?
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December 7, 2012 10:16pm
Ryan Sproull

What is the purpose of trolling Ryan?

I’m not trolling, Labrator. I’m showing Harriet what silly things she is saying by showing the logical conclusions to which they lead.
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December 7, 2012 10:17pm
mikenmild

Pesky Ryan is using tricky logic to confuse poor Harriet. Play fair Ryan!
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December 7, 2012 10:24pm
Ryan Sproull

Pesky Ryan is using tricky logic to confuse poor Harriet. Play fair Ryan!

It is possible to have a logically consistent argument against anal sex. It’s just that Harriet’s is not. Is it about things not fitting? Then what about penises that don’t fit in vaginas. Oh, it’s about procreation? Then what about infertile straight couples?
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December 7, 2012 11:51pm
bereal

Ryan Sproull

One sick fuck.

A very sick fuck.

A sad, sick, fucked up person.

How sad and sick you are Ryan
You poor sod.
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December 8, 2012 12:36am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Looks like a shitstorm on the way to Sydney once everyone wakes up.
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December 8, 2012 4:37am
expat

God damn fundies going feral.
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December 8, 2012 5:55am
Manolo

@Viking
Another reason to get rid of the prostitute and parasite of Ohariu-Belmont, the whorish Peter Dunne.

Never forget: National is the party of low taxes.
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December 8, 2012 6:24am
Harriet

Ryan Sproull#

“….Have you seen my point, Harriet?…’

No.

Half the population has a penis and the other half has a vagina – and everyone has an arsehole that they expel shit from.

And as I said “Gays don’t even complement each other – so what the fuck would they know about human sexuality?”

Other than adding shit into it! 😎
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December 8, 2012 6:52am
Manolo

Luddites, Labourites and comrade Helen Kelly will be very happy: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/culture/8043730/The-Hobbit-gets-mixed-critical-reception
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December 8, 2012 7:03am
Viking2

New tax rule hits bill for rebuild
MARIA SLADE
Last updated 05:00 08/12/2012

Rebuilding Christchurch

An Inland Revenue decision to tax worker accommodation allowances will add to the already rapidly rising Christchurch rebuild bill, tax experts say.

There has been a chorus of dismay from the tax industry since the IRD put out a statement this week saying it intends to tax allowances and accommodation provided to employees who have to work away from home.

It also wants to make the tax retrospective, asking employers to look over their books going back as far as four years.

With a flood of outside workers expected in Christchurch to help with rebuilding the quake-shattered city, local Grant Thornton partner Geordie Hooft said it would make the job more expensive.

“It provides a disincentive and I’m concerned about that.

“It’s not going to stop things from happening, it’s just going to represent another cost. And the cost of the rebuild goes up and up and up all the time.”

The rule change requiring employers to pay PAYE on any accommodation provision an employee gets when working in another location – particularly the decision to make it retrospective – has taken the tax fraternity by surprise.

Hooft said the move was in contrast to recommendations made by the IRD’s own policy advice division last month.

The Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA) said it was “deeply concerned” about the new tax.

It would have a significant impact on industries which relied on itinerant workers, such as agriculture, the film industry, and the Christchurch rebuild effort, the accounting industry body said.

Acting general manager tax, Jolayne Trim, said it was a retrospective law change “of the worst kind”.

“Inland Revenue is taking the chance that taxpayers will not have the resources available to question the commercial impracticality of its announcement,” she said.

IRD was asking firms to voluntarily disclose payments of accommodation allowances or provision of accommodation going back two years, and where the accommodation was paid on behalf of the employee it wanted them to go back four years.

PWC said the tax treatment of accommodation provided to employees working away from home had long been subject to debate, but it had been generally accepted that the worker did not get any net benefit from it and therefore it should not be seen as taxable income.

The accounting firm also said it had “serious misgivings” about the IRD statement’s lack of clarity.

Accommodation might not be taxable when it was just overnight or for a short-term stay by a worker, but taxpayers were still “very much in the dark” about what the IRD considered to be “temporary”, it said.
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“One wonders how Inland Revenue’s own investigators will be able to apply the statement. Many employees located in Christchurch for the rebuild now face an uncertain tax position.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/rebuilding-christchurch/8053130/New-tax-rule-hits-bill-for-rebuild

The Nazi’s have taken over in the Capital.
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December 8, 2012 7:09am
Colville

Decent sized earthquake here in Palmy!
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December 8, 2012 7:32am
Viking2

That’s to shake down all those old brick buildings in Feilding.
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December 8, 2012 7:43am
Viking2

Public Id: 2012p923684
NZDT: Saturday, December 8 2012 at 7:19:06 am
Intensity: moderate
Depth: 175 km
Magnitude: 5.8
Location: 20 km south-east of Tokoroa
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December 8, 2012 7:45am
Ryan Sproull

No.

Half the population has a penis and the other half has a vagina – and everyone has an arsehole that they expel shit from.

And as I said “Gays don’t even complement each other – so what the fuck would they know about human sexuality?”

Other than adding shit into it!

Yes, yes, very cute, but you haven’t answered my question.

You said that God’s design is made apparent through the penis not fitting easily into the anus, and that people who engage in anal sex are stupid for not being able to see what is obvious. Why doesn’t that make God’s design apparent that he doesn’t want certain different-sex couples having sex (ones where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina)?
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December 8, 2012 10:21am
mikenmild

Trying to argue with Harriet as though she were logical and informed is doomed to failure, Ryan.
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December 8, 2012 10:22am
Scott Chris

Perhaps God should have designed the penis like a cork-screw and given the anus a reverse thread…
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December 8, 2012 10:35am
Fletch

This might help –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E5NI0vDGhM
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December 8, 2012 10:41am
Ryan Sproull

Perhaps God should have designed the penis like a cork-screw and given the anus a reverse thread…

You mean like these ducks? http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1277 (That’s a corkscrew vagina, though.)
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December 8, 2012 10:42am
eszett

So Fletch get”s his sexual advise from the 1950s.
That may explain a few things
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December 8, 2012 10:54am
Harriet

Ryan Spoull#

Ryan Spoull#

“…..You said that God’s design is made apparent….”

YOU ARE A FUCKEN LIAR Ryan!

Go through the entire thread and see where I have used the word god, religion, jesus etc.

I haven’t – anywhere at all – I have not alluded to it either.

you bought it up at 4:38 – with this –

“….Actually, that raises a bit of a question, Harriet. What would God’s purpose be in creating such a variety of sizes of vaginas and penises?..”
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December 8, 2012 11:31am
Harriet

Mikenmad#

“…Trying to argue with Harriet as though she were logical and informed is doomed to failure, Ryan….”

I think you’ll find that it is Ryan who is talking through his arsehole Mikenmad!

“Neither a male-male nor a female-female relationship has the essential — i.e., of the essence — property of male-female. Same-sex marriage is neither validated nor created. It is metaphysically impossible. So to think is a logical fallacy; so to speak is semantic nonsense.”

Here is the explaination of that –

Philosophers going as far back as Aristotle have spoken of predication, properties and the like. Predication very simply refers to the attributing of characteristics to a subject or a thing. What a thing is may have different properties or ways of being characterised.

For our purposes here I wish to speak of two basic predications, or predicates, which have been distinguished in intellectual history for nearly three millennia now. These two main predicates are the essential and the accidental. It is important to be clear about how these differ, since discussions about personhood and the like depend upon these distinctions.

In very simple fashion, let us define our terms this way:
-An essential predicate, attribute, or property is one that belongs to the very nature or essence of a thing. They are necessary and permanent properties of a thing.
-An accidental predicate, attribute, or property is a quality which is not an essential part of a thing’s essence. They are contingent and temporary properties of a thing.

Thus something which is essential is that which must be true of a thing. If that quality or characteristic is missing, then that thing or object no longer is or can be. As John and Paul Feinberg explain: “An essential characteristic is a quality that is part of the very essence of a thing. If that quality is lost, the thing ceases to exist. On the other hand, an accidental quality is one that is not part of a thing’s essence. It can be lost or gained without the thing ceasing to exist.”

“A red ball possesses the properties red and round. Calling a green round object or a red square object a red ball does not make it a red ball. Calling same-sex ‘marriage’ does not make it marriage.

“The universe in this philosophic consideration is marriage, which is — by its very definition and essence — the complementary wedding of male and female. Other properties of this particular can be health, ethnic, and intelligence. All such are non-essentials (the term is ‘accidentals’) and can vary greatly and still be marriage. This is so because these are either consistent with or indifferent to the essence of the universal. In contrast, same-sex by its very nature is dissonant and incongruous with the essence of marriage.

“Again in the taxonomy of philosophy, the accidental properties of a given marriage are irrelevant to its essence. They just happen to be present without being necessary. What is not an accidental property is an essential property. These are accidental properties but heterosexuality is an essential property when the universe is marriage. Again: a green ball is not a red ball precisely because the property red is absent.

“Without such essential properties as sex that is compatible and complementary, an alleged marriage simply is not marriage at all. Without this, the relationship might be beautiful and wonderful socially or even domestically — but it is not marriage.

“Neither a male-male nor a female-female relationship has the essential — i.e., of the essence — property of male-female. Same-sex marriage is neither validated nor created. It is metaphysically impossible. So to think is a logical fallacy; so to speak is semantic nonsense.”

Quite so. I can go on all day long and declare that the Australian football team which won the AFL Grand Final yesterday was in fact the Geelong Cats. But no amount of blustering on my part will change the reality: the Sydney Swans won yesterday.

http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2012/09/30/philosophy-and-homosexual-marriage/
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December 8, 2012 11:45am
Ryan Sproull

YOU ARE A FUCKEN LIAR Ryan!

Go through the entire thread and see where I have used the word god, religion, jesus etc.

I haven’t – anywhere at all – I have not alluded to it either.

you bought it up at 4:38 – with this –

“….Actually, that raises a bit of a question, Harriet. What would God’s purpose be in creating such a variety of sizes of vaginas and penises?..”

Ah, okay. My apologies, Harriet. I read too much into your comment replying to Fletch talking about teleology.

So you’re talking about the purpose of body parts without any reference to something giving them purpose? And you’ve mentioned people “not being designed for sodomy”, but you’re not referring any kind of designer? Okay.

Well, that’s way simpler.

Basically, Harriet, if two consenting adults want to insert something that doesn’t fit so well – whether it’s a penis in an anus or a penis that doesn’t fit a vagina – it’s just none of your business or mine.

Humans use all kinds of body parts and bodily functions for purposes that differ from their evolutionary biological roles. Ears are for hearing, but some people put earrings in them. Lungs are for breathing, but some people use them as a nicotine-delivery device. Legs are for walking and running, but some people dance.
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December 8, 2012 12:11pm

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