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December 6, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 December 2012

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General Debate

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Kea

Yeah I think you’re imagining that law. Nowhere under s61 is there an exception for Maori.

NZ must be the only place in the world where saying, handouts should be given on the basis of need NOT race, is screamed down as racist in the media and by the race relations commissioner. They are still going on about years later !

A Maori can call Europeans any thing they like and even make comments about killing them. No problem. There is an exception for Maori, but it is not written in s61. I actually like the outspoken Maori MP’s. I just want the same freedoms extended to all people.
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December 6, 2012 7:16pm
RF

Kea

I believe that Billy T James was a true reflection of the Maori Race.
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December 6, 2012 7:22pm
Griff

The people who are really behind this have far darker motives. They are the puppet masters. They want power. AGW is simply a means to an end. The destruction of free market, capitalist, democratic society, is their intention.

Tell me more Kea about this global conspiracy.

Who has been destroying the free market, capitalist, democratic society.

How have they taken over the evil scientists? How did they take over the New Zealand government, The American government, the UN and all the rest. Who planned it all?

I do so love a good global conspiracy
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December 6, 2012 7:45pm
Reid

Griff, read this.
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December 6, 2012 8:03pm
Than

Griff: I just tried reading Redbaiter’s blog. I only got halfway through a post before giving up in disgust.

Red – all I can say is I am extremely, extremely glad your opinions represent a negligible and irrelevant minority. I have never been more grateful for our communist, liberal education system.
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December 6, 2012 8:11pm
Redbaiter

Stay away in future Than, I don’t write for the Jerry Springer set.
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December 6, 2012 8:16pm
Reid

I have never been more grateful for our communist, liberal education system.

You mean the one which thinks it’s a good idea to teach 12 year olds how to slip a condom over a life-sized anatomically correct dildo?

Crikey.

Er.

Why? Are you grateful, I mean.
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December 6, 2012 8:17pm
Griff

You know as soon as you mention the scriptures Reid…..
You lose Athiests.
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December 6, 2012 8:18pm
big bruv

Griff

It seems that if Bedwetter had his way he would force all of our kids to suffer through religious study and make attendance at church on a Sunday compulsory for all.

Imagine the fun the priests would have with all those kids hanging around.
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December 6, 2012 8:23pm
Reid

You know as soon as you mention the scriptures Reid…..

You should keep reading it Griff. It’s a big book with lots of stuff in it. Just scroll through a couple of chapters and you’ll see. It’s all history. Spelled out in detail. You asked, that tells you what you asked for. Read it. Like I said, it’s a big book.
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December 6, 2012 8:27pm
Kea

I do so love a good global conspiracy

Hay Griff tell us about the conspiracy that is making record cold snaps and snow in the UK. All to discredit East Anglia climate scientists? Did they use HAARP to make it snow and hide the rise?

Is it finance by “BIG OIL” like you have been telling us all along?
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December 6, 2012 8:30pm
big bruv

Reid

It is indeed a big book, however that is about the only thing you have said that is true about it.

That book you mention is full of hate, lies (it is after all nothing more than a work of fiction) and bigotry.

The world would be a far better place without that book, we would have almost no wars, a lot less people and we would be able to combat diseases like AIDS a lot easier. Our kids would also be a hell of a lot safer than they are now.
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December 6, 2012 8:35pm
Griff

Another generation of repressed homo created by the loving church’s priesthood and inspired by the continuation of pre teen sodomy by the moral leaders of the church
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December 6, 2012 8:35pm
Reid

By all means cite factual errors bb. Go ahead. Give us the page numbers and let’s discuss. But facts are facts and so what if you don’t like it because it offends you. So what. Is it a fact? Yes or no. That’s the only relevant question. Honestly I’ve never understood why people get excited about facts. I mean, why? What the heck is wrong with someone who sees a fact, a thing that’s there, there it is, and proceeds to get all emotional and pretend it’s not a fact after all simply because they don’t like it? I mean crikey.
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December 6, 2012 8:42pm
Griff

Explain the global conspiracy
Don’t keep such major news to yourself kea

The people who are really behind this have far darker motives. They are the puppet masters. They want power. AGW is simply a means to an end. The destruction of free market, capitalist, democratic society, is their intention.

Who are the people, the puppet masters
Does your phone click, do you see men in dark glasses following you, have the aliens Inserted your anal probe yet?
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December 6, 2012 8:43pm
Than

Redbaiter: With absolutely no hesitation, I will promise to never visit your blog site again.

Reid: I have tried reading the Bible, starting in Genesis and working my way through. I didn’t get beyond Leviticus – the constant violent atrocities of the Old Testament put me off. I am giving it a second chance by starting fresh with the New Testament. So far (halfway through Matthew) it has been boring and uninspiring, but not outright distasteful like the Old Testament was.
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December 6, 2012 8:44pm
Redbaiter

Griff, haven’t you ever got anything but feeble attempts at ridicule you pathetic mental midget?

You’re just like every other commie, in that as soon as any of the pillars of your leftist temple are attacked, your defence is completely hollow and always devoid of logic.

The underlying message of almost every one of your sad contributions is “how dare you attack my false idols”

You mean the one which thinks it’s a good idea to teach 12 year olds how to slip a condom over a life-sized anatomically correct dildo?

Yes Reid, that is the one he means. He’s glad to see unknowing communist party apparatchiks (aka teachers) assuming the role of parents.
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December 6, 2012 8:52pm
big bruv

Reid

You made the claim that the book is a historic one. Therefore you (I assume) think that what is in it happens to be true.

Now, tell me how that dude parted the seas. Remind me how this bloke called Jesus went around healing the sick and restoring sight to the blind.

After all that, and if you do read it with both eyes open and you still believe it then come and see me, I have a bridge that I want to sell you.
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December 6, 2012 8:52pm
Viking2

Meet the Coolest Mayor in the World
In “have you met” on November 28, 2012 at 2:35 pm
Meet Jon Gnarr, mayor of Reykjavik, Iceland’s largest (and coolest) city.

http://messynessychic.com/2012/11/28/meet-the-coolest-mayor-in-the-world/
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December 6, 2012 8:57pm
Redbaiter

“By all means cite factual errors bb. Go ahead.”

For fuck’s sake Reid, he’s just a low IQ low information troll.

Why the fuck would you bother?
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December 6, 2012 8:57pm
Pete George

RF at 7:04 pm

What the hell is Phil Goff on about. Is his hair dye seeping into his brain cells. He is still having a go at McCully.

Labour strategy seems to be to keep repeating mistakes. David Clark is doing similar today. Shearer was continuing with the Australia campaign after Ardern was hammered on it.

Either they don’t realise they are douchebagging themselves or they think that if they repeat crap enough people will start to believe it. Probably a bit of both.
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December 6, 2012 8:57pm
Reid

Try Romans and Ephesians Than.

Those are two of my favourites. Romans holds many lessons and explanations on faith. On the first few readings it’s hard to understand but it becomes clearer. Ephesians is a very poetic letter from Paul to one of the original Christian Church communities.

It helps to sincerely ask God for discernment and understanding just before reading it. God bless.
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December 6, 2012 9:02pm
Reid

You made the claim that the book is a historic one.

No I said it cites lot of historic facts bb. Names, dates, places, events. Last I heard, those are some of the essential attributes of something that claims to be a “fact.”

So if you want to scroll to any page and pick a name, date, place or event and discuss it, go ahead. Otherwise don’t ask me about biblical stories, because that’s not what my link referred to and the story you ask about is also not what my link even mentioned, so somewhere along the line bb, something’s happened and you’ve invented some reality that only you are in. Possibly you’ve crossed over into Langolier country bb.

Good luck…
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December 6, 2012 9:09pm
Reid

P.S. Than. I recommend the King James version. It’s the most faithful of them all to the Greek and Hebrew.

http://www.blueletterbible.org has all the versions.
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December 6, 2012 9:14pm
Griff

You mean the one which thinks it’s a good idea to teach 12 year olds how to slip a condom over a life-sized anatomically correct dildo?

Why not? Did you at least have an inkling what those different bits you found out boys and girls have around the back of the bike shed are for:wink:

Shit red what world do you live in?
They even get little Cristian girls to swear to be virgins are you telling me those little girls don’t know what a virgin is.
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December 6, 2012 9:22pm
RightNow

Oil industry funding nutters:

Nature Conservancy lists BP as one of its business partners. The Conservancy also has given BP a seat on its International Leadership Council and has accepted nearly $10 million in cash and land contributions from BP and affiliated corporations over the years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/23/AR2010052302164_pf.html

between 2007 and 2010 the Sierra Club accepted over $25 million in donations from the gas industry, mostly from…Chesapeake Energy – one of the biggest gas drilling companies in the U.S

http://www.webcitation.org/65V1HMaH8

Four big international companies, including the oil giant Exxon Mobil, said yesterday that they would give Stanford University $225 million over 10 years for research on ways to meet growing energy needs without worsening global warming.

Exxon Mobil, whose pledge of $100 million makes it the biggest of the four contributors, issued a statement saying new techniques for producing energy while reducing emissions of heat-trapping greenhouse gases were ”vital to meeting energy needs in the industrialized and developing world.

…

In 2000, Ford and Exxon Mobil’s global rival, BP, gave $20 million to Princeton to start a similar climate and energy research program.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/21/us/exxon-led-group-is-giving-a-climate-grant-to-stanford.html

Has it occurred to you that “big oil” figured out long ago how to profit either way from climatology griff? Just like the big insurance/reinsurance companies who get to increase their premiums, and the big financial institutions who want to run carbon exchanges.
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December 6, 2012 9:23pm
Griff

Yes RN lets hear your global conspiracy
All the details please government’s scientific bodies that have nothing to do with climate change everyone I has named as involved.
Kea insists on keeping his perpetrators hidden.

I like to know all the details of any conspiracy in some detail.

This one is a massive Global hoax after all.

So tune your tin hat RN and tell us all about it. 😆
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December 6, 2012 9:30pm
Than

Reid: I was intending to simply read through from beginning to end. So (sincerely) thank you, I will now read those books first. To be honest I doubt they will change my view, but I will read them and try to keep an open mind

Apologies, I didn’t actually answer your question regarding sex education. Myself, my peers, and those younger than us were all educated under the system you describe. As far as I can tell (including my personal experience) they are well-adjusted people, no better or worse prepared for the world than any other generation. I haven’t heard any of them calling for people to be lined up and shot, which I regard as a positive.
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December 6, 2012 9:34pm
mikenmild

Yes Griff, for the biggest conspiracy of all time we should see a bit more evidence. If the IPCC etc is a massive hoax, it sure shows how it was so easy to fake the moon landings!
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December 6, 2012 9:35pm
Pete George

This could get inteersting.

Just how wrong can you get it?

Word is that a senior Labour MP (who will go unnamed) has been lobbying National Council to put rules in place for party members who participate in the blogosphere. It appears they don’t like the idea that members might voice their concerns about the way their party is run. I can only assume that there would have to be some kind of a process whereby members who broke these rules would face a loss of membership or some other form of censure.

The embers have already been glowering. This could be petrol.

http://thestandard.org.nz/just-how-wrong-can-you-get-it/
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December 6, 2012 9:36pm
RightNow

Get a grip Griff, you keep claiming the oil industry is funding ‘the nutters’ but it’s easy to show (as I have done) that they actually fund climatology by more than 100 times anything skeptics have received.

Try to be a bit more objective there guy, that’s all.
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December 6, 2012 9:47pm
RightNow

And this http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1997.0/trend/plot/rss/from:1997.0

🙂
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December 6, 2012 9:50pm
calendar girl

RB @ 4:08 – “For example, one thing it [freedom of expression] does not mean is that people are compelled to buy newspapers or watch television when these outlets are controlled by subversives who are out to deliberately misinform and intentionally alter political perceptions.”

Please, Red, don’t put words in my mouth – I never claimed any compulsion on anyone to read newspapers or watch TV of any kind. You said to me, in your customarily offensive way: “Why read those Pravda outlets anyway??” and I gave my reasons, in a reasonable manner, for keeping abreast of their material and taking my limited opportunities to present opposing views.

You yourself have no monopoly of interpretation of the term “freedom of expression”, Red. Your bluster, bullying, personal name-calling and crude poverty of language do your views little credit in that very context. That applies also to the causes that you espouse. But, Red, you too enjoy “freedom of expression”. I respect that freedom which you exercise freely; why do you find it obligatory on your part to abuse mine? (Even though we may be basically in agreement on certain fundamental principles – if only one could get behind your politico-macho facade of outrage to find out.)

You contend that “Only government action can offend against traditional freedom of expression …” While that is a challenging observation, it’s not true – at least that’s my personal view. Witness widespread attempts to intimidate and muzzle people when they express views that offend some on the left, or views that offend certain minorities such as Maori, women or gay people. You yourself are not bad at such offending “against traditional freedom of expression”, Red. I expect that many readers tend to turn away from expressing their own views fully in the face of your personalised fusillades of intemperance and extremism.

Finally, did you really mean to commend me to “Ask Owen McShane for one example of why he is persona non grata on Radio New Zealand”? I used to follow Mr McShane’s contemporary views with interest, and agreed with many of them, but sadly that element of my wider reading ceased with his untimely death nine months or so ago.
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December 6, 2012 9:53pm
Griff

Come on RN
Yours is the biggest global conspiracy I have ever heard of. Do tell more. Who is in charge of subverting the governments of the world ? How have they taken over the peer review process? Who is directing the royal society and the American academy of science? So many people involved its huge.

At least my conspiracy has names, dates, tax returns ,accounts all the rest of the paper work and a reasonable amount of probability what do you have?

http://monthlyreview.org/2012/05/01/petroleum-and-propaganda
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_warming_conspiracy_theory
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December 6, 2012 10:06pm
RightNow

Wow, your link:
“Powell details the support of ExxonMobil for denialism, but omits the combative Koch brothers, owners of Koch Energy, the world’s largest privately held energy company. ExxonMobil is the biggest funder of global-warming denialism, spending nearly $16 million on more than forty organizations over the period 1998–2005.”

$16 million huh? Geez, that really puts their $100 million to Stanford in perspective.

I’m going to have to start calling climatologists oil industry shills
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December 6, 2012 10:10pm
Griff

Dear dear ask right now or Kea a question about the global conspirawhacky and they just can not answer it. Who is conspiring to control the world.
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December 6, 2012 10:21pm
RightNow

Well clearly I can’t tell you that griff, or I’d have to kill you.

But its clear to see that big oil has climatologists in its pay. Reid can fill you in on the rest.
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December 6, 2012 10:23pm
bereal

poor old Griff.

Have you ever considered getting a life ?
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December 6, 2012 10:28pm
Redbaiter

“at least that’s my personal view.”

A view that reinforces my original point, in that you apprently do not understand the issue, so while you so offensively preach to me your patronising crap on how I should behave to receive the favour of my socialist betters, you still show a stark inability to understand that interaction among the free market and free people is not anything that can be accurately described as limiting freedom of expression.

I can say what I want, and so can TV 3. It is only government who can legislate to control what is said, and right under your nose they have done so frequently over the last few decades, and will continue down that path no doubt with the blessing of lame and tame peasant ignorami like yourself.
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December 6, 2012 10:33pm
Redbaiter

Follow on-

And if “extremism” means that I expect the National Party to live up to the principles it was founded upon then I plead guilty without a skerrick of regret.

And if you think those principles are extreme then its you that is at fault and not myself, for they were principles that served this country and the Nats well for many years.

“To promote good citizenship and self-reliance; to combat communism and socialism; to maintain freedom of contract; to encourage private enterprise; to safeguard individual rights and the privilege of ownership; to oppose interference by the State in business, and State control of industry”

Today, the Nats have disavowed and ridicule those very principles that were the foundation of so much success for this country. I will criticise them harshly for this betrayal. Whether you and the like soft left wing that today supports them (and their treachery) like it or not.
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December 6, 2012 10:40pm
bereal

One thing you can be sure of,

Little Griff never went behind the bike sheds, even on his own,
let alone with any “Cristians” ( sic)

Seems like he heard about what some kids did somewhere but.

Naughty kids, eh! Griff.
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December 6, 2012 10:50pm
SPC

Weaker than expected wage growth as the reason for an increase in the budget deficit over forecast

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10852235
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December 6, 2012 10:53pm
bhudson

@SPC,

Headline[yours]: We haven’t sold enough, so let’s borrow and give everyone some more money.

The only thing those results and news headline prove is that we have to sell more of our goods. Any form of welfare handout or other govt spending works counter to that effect.
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December 6, 2012 11:00pm
calendar girl

Incoherent ramblings of rage, Red. Epitomises why you spend your time conversing with yourself. What a waste.
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December 6, 2012 11:11pm
bhudson

CG,

Red never debases himself to read such filthy subversive lefty communist propaganda feeds.

No. He contents himself to read those bastions of conservative wisdom; the founts of like-minded wisdom that prove that all that is good in the world is all that this is not what his opponents think.

He listens to what he wants to hear.

That way he is never wrong..
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December 6, 2012 11:19pm
Redbaiter

“Incoherent ramblings of rage, Red.”

Its another indication of your crippled liberal political perspectives that you perceive my direct mode of address as an expression of rage.

Break out of the PC padded cell for fuck’s sake.
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December 6, 2012 11:23pm
Griff

Beryl you know I can not give names that would not be fair
Except maybe denominations that would be ok
That’s the Anglican priest and Pentecostal “pastors?” daughters in the area Plus the daughter of quite a well-known missionary. 😉 And her J W mate.

Let me guess you were playing rugby

Running around on a field chasing a bladder in a cover.

In some ancient ritual that involves a scrum where you all get down and sniff arses.

Then showering with the boys down the club.

Followed by a huge piss up

The pinnacle of human achievement that is

Playing the ancient game of thugby 😀
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December 6, 2012 11:38pm
SPC

The median wage is $20 an hour, the average wage $25 an hour

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10852254
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December 7, 2012 12:12am
Redbaiter

“That way he is never wrong..”

Ha ha that’s funny.

Here are you and your National Party mates about to hand the country over to the Communist Coalition and you’re telling me you’re doing it right??

FFS, anyone with even half a brain would have to question why the country keeps sliding to the left, and understand that the main reason it is happening is the impotence of the National Party.
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December 7, 2012 12:15am
eszett

I think you mean your very own impotence, red, or more precisely, the sheer and outright irrelevance of your bizarre worldview.
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December 7, 2012 12:52am
Redbaiter

” Who is in charge of subverting the governments of the world ? ”

Sad lamer.

Leaving aside the pitifully infantile phrasing of the question, the UN is behind much of the leftist nonsense that prevails in the west, along with organisations like Socialist International, a club that most left wing politicians (including most NZ left wing politicians) belong to and the means by which they co-ordinate global strategy to bring down capitalism.

Here is their home page-

http://www.socialistinternational.org/

Here is a list of countries where their members are holding power-

http://www.socialistinternational.org/images/dynamicImages/files/Member_Parties_in_Govt%20Dec12.pdf

Helen Klark was/ is prominent in SI, and has now moved on to the UN. Anyone who claims there is no left wing globally co-ordinated political strategy is just another head in the sand denier of reality.
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December 7, 2012 1:02am
Redbaiter

“the sheer and outright irrelevance of your bizarre worldview.”

Don’t you sad commie robots ever get tired of the same old propaganda?

In fact my views have wide support, as can be demonstrated on Whale, where votes for and against give me an approval rating probably 4 or 5 times as favourable as Pete George for example.

And probably as the most favourable commenter over all.

You’re just a cowardly liar, with no proof for your constant smears and baseless assertions.
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December 7, 2012 1:06am
mikenmild

Hey, Redbaiter gets more support on the Slater-blog. That tends to confirm my opinion of the relative merits of Kiwiblog and Slater-blog.
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December 7, 2012 7:00am
Manolo

Political-correctness gone mad: http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_22133907/seniors-decry-ban-christmas-tree-their-complex-newhall
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December 7, 2012 7:14am
Manolo

That tends to confirm my opinion of the relative merits of Kiwiblog and Slater-blog.

@comrade mike: What the fuck are you doing here then?
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December 7, 2012 7:15am
mikenmild

Um, by relative merits you may not have realised that I am praising the ‘relative’ sanity of some, but by no means all, of the Kiwiblog community when compared to Whale’s site, which I suggest would be a more logical home base for the likes of you and Redbaiter.
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December 7, 2012 7:32am
Manolo

Dynastic dreams: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Michelle-Obama-for-Senate-PPP-Says-Yes-182374861.html?dr
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December 7, 2012 7:57am
eszett

In fact my views have wide support, as can be demonstrated on Whale, where votes for and against give me an approval rating probably 4 or 5 times as favourable as Pete George for example.

ROFTL.

That’s your “wide support”? On Whaleoil you get 4-5 times more than pete george likes than pete george?
How pathetically sad.

The “wide support” is very much part of this fantasy of yours.
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December 7, 2012 8:11am
Redbaiter

That wide support exists on NZ’s most popular political blog.

It is a fact.

You have nothing but cowardly lies and smears, and nothing that isn’t any more than the most bigoted hate filled opinion.
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December 7, 2012 8:37am
Redbaiter

“Um, by relative merits you may not have realised that I am praising the ‘relative’ sanity of some, but by no means all, of the Kiwiblog community ”

Of course, anyone who doesn’t buy into the same beltway elitist opinions as you and the rest of the desk piloting shiney arsed bureaucrats is insane.

You need to do some research on the historical origins of that kind of attitude. You could start by reading Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s “The Gulag Archipelago”, detailing the world of prison camps, secret police, informers, spies and interrogators that characterised Stalinist Russia.

The text is based on the author’s own experience of 11 years in labour camps and the testimony of 200 other survivors. Most were incarcerated because they were adjudicated as insane for resisting the collectivist tyranny that killed millions of Russians.

In fact it is you and your robber baron arrogant ilk and your dopey uninformed urban liberal army who are completely out of touch with real NZ.
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December 7, 2012 8:45am
thedavincimode

Calm down old dear. Express medical courier is on the way, so just make a nice cup of tea and the meds will be with you shortly.
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December 7, 2012 8:49am
Redbaiter

You just keep on doing your best for your lefty masters fool.
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December 7, 2012 8:55am

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This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

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