General Debate 5 October 2012

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Pete George

Contrasting comments. John Ansell is launching his ‘Colourblind’ campaign.

(Colourblind is an odd term to use, to me it conveys an impressiion of seeing things incorrectly)

And Peter Dunne has just given a Rotary speech, in part on Māori, water, wind and race relations.
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October 5, 2012 8:05am
Manolo

Peter Dunne is so sensible and makes so much sense that I’m going to join UnitedFuture today.
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October 5, 2012 8:15am
flipper

Gore Blames Denver Altitude for Obama Debate Performance. Yeah, right!
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October 5, 2012 8:18am
Pete George

He could be right flipper, Obama didn’t seem to have the right Denver debate attitude.
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October 5, 2012 8:20am
Keeping Stock

@ Pete George – who is paying for Ansell’s charm offensive?
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October 5, 2012 8:25am
liarbors a joke

Who cares what Peter Dunne has to say. He is a political prostitute. He is of no consequence.
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October 5, 2012 8:25am
flipper

Obama II
President Obama, speaking at a rally in Denver today, spins his lackluster performance in last night’s debate by claiming Mitt Romney gained an edge by pretending to be someone he’s not — while his campaign responds: ‘We’re going to have to take a hard look at this.’
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October 5, 2012 8:26am
iMP

I heard one Democrat explain Obama did badly because he had to stand, not sit down. Bereft politics.
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October 5, 2012 8:26am
Keeping Stock

James Graham got a deserved 12-week suspension from the NRL judiciary last night for biting Billy Slater. But he didn’t help himself with his evidence to the judiciary; he could have chosen his words a bit better!!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/the-wrong-thing-to-say.html
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October 5, 2012 8:27am
Carlos

How the hell is it that we’re still building leaky homes?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10838486
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October 5, 2012 8:27am
Manolo

Who cares what Peter Dunne has to say. He is a political prostitute. He is of no consequence.

As long as the whorish Dunne is a Minister.
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October 5, 2012 8:34am
hj

Are Amoeba-Shaped Cities More Likely To Go Bankrupt?

A CNN article recently featured on Planetizen discussed the question of whether sprawling development — and the infrastructure costs associated with it — places a strain on municipal budgets and drives some municipalities to bankruptcy. To what extent, the article asks, is sprawl responsible for these fiscal problems?
http://www.planetizen.com/node/58658
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October 5, 2012 8:37am
Pete George

All MPs are political prostitutes, trying to achieve as much as they can. Some are successful, and some are successful for much longer than others.

So the knockers knock, on a door to nowhere.
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October 5, 2012 8:43am
graham

Sooo, who here has booked to attend “An Evening with Al Gore” next Friday? 🙂

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1208/S00525/al-gore-to-speak-in-auckland.htm

Prices start at just $804.43 per seat, all the way up to $12,644.25 for a Platinum Hosted VIP table for 10 guests. Anybody interested in getting together a Kiwiblog group?

Oh and look – Master of Cermonies is none other than John Campbell! Well, this is obviously going to be a not-to-be-missed event …
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October 5, 2012 8:45am
hj

“Think about it. Every time a new, spread-out subdivision is built far away from existing infrastructure, somebody has to pay for a bunch of roads that serve a small number of residents. And sewer and water lines too. And fire trucks that must travel farther to serve fewer people. And police cars. And ambulances. And school buses. And dial-a-ride buses. And – in many parts of the country – snowplows.
The cost is enormous. One study in Charlotte, North Carolina, found that a fire station in a low-density neighborhood serves one-quarter the number of households and at four times the cost of an otherwise identical fire station in a less spread out neighborhood. That sort of inefficiency adds up and multiplies as you take into account the hundreds of services cities must provide. What seems cheap on the one hand isn’t always when you look at it over the long haul.
Cities can sometimes stay in the black temporarily by approving new development and getting new revenue to pay for the costs. But that’s really just a Ponzi scheme. When a real estate bust hits – as it did starting in 2008 – there’s no more new development to subsidize sprawling development, and cities start to run in the red. That’s partly what happened in Stockton and San Bernardino”
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/31/the-cost-of-americas-inefficient-sprawl/
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October 5, 2012 8:46am
hj

All MPs are political prostitutes, trying to achieve as much as they can. Some are successful, and some are successful for much longer than others.

From The Lancet
”
Screening for Ministerial appointments? Systems failure in Peter Dunne’s appointment as a New Zealand Revenue and Associate Health Minister
MP Peter Dunne has recently been appointed as a Minister outside cabinet for two positions, Associate Minister of Health and Minister of Revenue. These appointments may be relevant to a wide range of health issues in New Zealand, the Pacific region, and elsewhere. This letter focuses on his record on tobacco issues, and considers some of the implications of his appointments.
For nearly 20 years, Mr Dunne has taken a public position opposed to tobacco control. In 1987, while an Undersecretary of Health in the Labour Government, he was reported as describing those who wanted a ban on tobacco advertising as ‘elitist zealots’.1 Since he left the Labour Party in 1994, he has consistently voted against tobacco control initiatives.
Mr Dunne has described the efforts in New Zealand to prevent the sale of tobacco to underage children as ‘fascist’,2 and tobacco control spending as a ‘scandalous waste of money in pursuit of some health zealots’ beady eyed political correctness.’3 Mr Dunne also described the 2003 New Zealand legislation for smokefree bars as ‘extremism’.4
Speaking in Parliament to oppose the legislation,5 the evidence indicates that he used (without attribution) statements previously published on a website by Barry McKay of the Canadian tobacco industry front group PUBCO: The Pub and Bar Coalition of Canada.6 He incorrectly attributed these statements (about ventilation being a solution to secondhand smoke dangers) to a British Medical Journal article.
A December 1994 note from Paul Adams of British American Tobacco, to Peter Dunne, stated that it accompanied 100 pounds:
‘to help pay for your ‘Awayday’. I do hope you will enjoy yourselves.
I would be grateful if you could get receipts for your expenses and pass them to the driver, even large companies have to account for their money!
Enjoy your visit to England.’7
In 2003, the month before this tobacco industry document was revealed, he was reported as saying:
‘I am constantly labelled by the health sector as a tool of the tobacco industry or a stooge … I cannot remember when I last met with someone from the industry.’ 8
In 2000, when the possibility of tobacco companies being sued by government was raised, Mr Dunne stated that Labour Prime Minister Helen Clark had a ‘fanatical anti-smoking obsession’ and described ASH NZ as an extremist pressure group.9 In 2001, Prime Minister Helen Clark said that ‘he had consistently picked up issues in support of the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries.’10
That a politician with this track record can be appointed to a Ministerial role in the health portfolio is a side effect of the MMP political system New Zealand now has (given he is a leader of a minor party in a type of government coalition). Nevertheless, it also indicates a design fault in the way the New Zealand political process selects new ministers.
That is, there is no systematic publicly transparent review process for ministerial appointments, or a public appraisal of a ministerial candidate’s past support for commercial vested interests in the portfolio area they are considered for. Until such a transparent and effective system is established, it may be appropriate for the public (and the rest of Parliament) to at least tightly monitor the performance of such Ministers. In particular, non-governmental organisations need to take a monitoring and advocacy role to minimise any damage by such Ministers to important regulatory and legislative controls that protect public health and society.
Or perhaps Mr Dunne should come with a warning label?
George Thomson
Department of Public Health, Wellington School of Medicine and Health Sciences
University of Otago, Wellington
Nick Wilson
Department of Public Health, Wellington School of Medicine and Health Sciences
University of Otago, Wellington
Competing interests: Both authors have worked for health sector agencies concerned with tobacco control.
References:
ASH NZ. Tax take influences Undersecretary for Health. ASH Newsletter. December 1987. (28): p.1. [Reporting a statement on Radio New Zealand December 1, 1989]
Dunne P: Speech on the Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill (No. 2) 10 July 1997. In. Parliamentary Debates: In Committee. Wellington; 1997.
New Zealand Press Association. Smoke-free Act ‘$44 million waste of money’. Dominion (newspaper). Wellington: 20 March 1998.
Watkins T. Secret smoking agenda denied. Dominion Post (newspaper). Wellington: 5 July 2003.
Dunne P: Speech on the Smoke-free Environments Amendment Bill: In Committee: November 12, 2003. In. New Zealand House of Representatives Parliamentary Debates (Hansard). Wellington; 2003. Available online. URL: http://www.clerk.parliament.govt.nz/hansard/Hansard.aspx Accessed November 2005.
McKay B. New UK ventilation study proves succesful? PUBCO: Pub and Bar Coalition of Canada. Available online. URL: http://www.pubcoalition.com/html/articles_uk_vent.htm Accessed November 2005.
Adams P. [Note to Peter Dunne]. British American Tobacco; 19 December 1994. Available online. URL: http://tobaccodocuments.org/guildford_misc/500016895.html Accessed http://tobaccodocuments.org/guildford_misc/500016895.html November 2005
Luke P. Dunne sees fine future in United. The Press (newspaper), Christchurch: 27 September 2003.
Dunne P. Press release: Clark’s anti smoking obsession shows government’s dark and frightening side. Wellington: United New Zealand Party; 16 March 2000.
Edwards B. PM, husband in huge row. The Evening Post (newspaper). Wellington: 15 March 2001.
*

Guilty Dunny Brush
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October 5, 2012 8:49am
hj

and he’s a political prostitute too. Herr Dunny Brush.
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October 5, 2012 8:56am
iMP

CNN has the 25 Funniest Tweets during Debate 1. Hilarious watching Democrats in utter denial and shock.

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/cnn-25-funniest-tweet-on-us-prez-debate-1
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October 5, 2012 9:14am
Manolo

Gore Blames Denver Altitude for Obama Debate Performance.

Aptitude is more accurate.
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October 5, 2012 9:20am
Pete George

How many times are you going to repeat that cut and paste hj?

For nearly 20 years, Mr Dunne has taken a public position opposed to tobacco control.

That’s nonsense. For example Dunne has been Minister of Revenue for the past seven years, and in that time tax on tobacco has been progressively increased.

And UF policy is clear about needing to deal with alcohol.

Focus resources to deal with the most socially harmful drugs as identified through scientific research and the assessments of justice, education and health experts. Currently the most socially harmful substances in New Zealand are methamphetamine, specifically ‘P’, cannabis, alcohol and tobacco.

Are you are pissed off pothead hj?
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October 5, 2012 9:23am
Lance

@hj
Yea, lets save money and shut down the South Island
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October 5, 2012 9:38am
Andrei

Actually the most socially harmful people in New Zealand are the MP’s including your St Peter Dunne who voted for pansy marriage, which will prove to be the most socially destructive innovation ever inflicted upon a people.
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October 5, 2012 9:41am
liarbors a joke

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8543208/racial-equality-campaign-set-to-launch

All power to the man.
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October 5, 2012 9:41am
Pete George

More religious intolerance:

Churches ramp up anti-gay marriage campaign

Church leaders will use their Sunday sermons this month to implore their congregations to speak out against gay marriage.

With three weeks left for submissions on the bill to legalise gay marriage, the New Zealand Christian Network has asked members to write to the Government in opposition of the law change.

In an email to be “read out in churches” this month, the network encourages Christians to “take time to seek God’s heart before writing their submission with grace and truth”.

National director of the New Zealand Christian Network Glyn Carpenter said it was “highly probable that this bill will not be good for New Zealand”.

“This bill on its own will not bring about the destruction of society as we know it,” he said.

This is similar to: Colin Craig concedes gay marriage will have no effect

The article doesn’t say how many ‘Church leaders will use their Sunday sermons implore their congregations to speak out against gay marriage’, but presumably it won’t be all of them.
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October 5, 2012 9:44am
Fletch

Actually the most socially harmful people in New Zealand are the MP’s including your St Peter Dunne

He is also the reason I’m having to get up an hour early in the morning, thanks to Daylight Saving starting much earlier than it should ಠ_ಠ
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October 5, 2012 9:46am
hj

Lance (1,385) Says:
October 5th, 2012 at 9:38 am
@hj
Yea, lets save money and shut down the South Island
….
?
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October 5, 2012 9:46am
Colville

yip lets shut the South Island for anything but pig hunting. Oh and the hydro schemes can keep running so my lights stay on 🙂
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October 5, 2012 9:46am
Colville

If Obama has lost the gift of the gab there isnt much left in that shiny suit is there?
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October 5, 2012 9:48am
James Stephenson

@Colville – please can we keep the vinyards?
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October 5, 2012 9:49am
Fletch

If Obama has lost the gift of the gab there isnt much left in that shiny suit is there?

He never had it. He had speech writers and a teleprompter.
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October 5, 2012 9:50am
Pete George

National director of the New Zealand Christian Network Glyn Carpenter: “This bill on its own will not bring about the destruction of society as we know it,” he said.

Colin Craig: “Do I think those effects will be major? On balance, probably no.”

Andrei: “which will prove to be the most socially destructive innovation ever inflicted upon a people.”

Andrei must be an -ian, because he seems to be absent any Christ.
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October 5, 2012 9:50am
Colville

@Colville – please can we keep the vinyards?

Just buy your drink from Hawkesbay 🙂
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October 5, 2012 9:56am
graham

Did Peter Dunne vote for same-sex marriage? I didn’t realise that. That’s a change from his earlier stance, in 2004.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3573747

Peter Dunne will campaign against the Government’s plans to legalise same-sex unions knowing his United Future Party is likely to be attacked as strict, conservative Christians.

He was against the proposed alternative to marriage for both heterosexual and same-sex couples because civil unions were not necessary, and sanctioning people’s lifestyles was not the state’s business.
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October 5, 2012 9:58am
Andrei

More religious intolerance:

Living proof the Pete George has cotton wool between his ears.

Listen Buster – stating that you believe that gay “marriage” is a huge mistake is not intolerance.

Claiming it is is an example of bullying people into complying with your agenda.

I am a live and let live sort of guy but I cannot stand liars and the gay lobby are liars and whiners. A self indulgent and self absorbed banal minority who are wagging the political dog.

The only good thing about this is that while the Anglo Saxon world is going down the toilet the Slavic world is seeing what is happening and is resisting and rightly so.
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October 5, 2012 9:59am
Manolo

Will Ohariu-Belmont ever ditch the political prostitute that represents it as MP?
At least twice, the chameleonic Dunne has had a fright on Election Day. Let’s hope this time he’s out for good.
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October 5, 2012 10:03am
James Stephenson

Let’s hope this time he’s out for good.

He’s not the only advert for term limits for MPs, but he’s a good one.
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October 5, 2012 10:07am
Pete George

I’m not trying to bully anyone Andrei. I think every adult should be left to their own marriage choices. I’m not trying to stop people I don’t like from getting married.

“I am a live and let live sort of guy…”

It will be good to see you letting homosexuals living their lives free of your prejudices then.
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October 5, 2012 10:07am
Andrei

It will be good to see you letting homosexuals living their lives free of your prejudices then.

But they can, they can do whatever they like, like sticking eels up their bums if they so choose.

They can even get married if they choose to – provided they stick by the norms of the institution which requires a willing opposite sex partner to join with them in the institution.

It is the rewrite of the institution by pandering politicians which I object to – vehemently and in the long term it is an incredible own goal for the pansies because damaging marriage will lead to a population who after surplanting the decadent elites who have charge now will not make the same mistake again, not allow it.
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October 5, 2012 10:20am
dime

Dunne is one WHORE Dime doesnt like.

I heard something on ZB this morning – Dunne has found one last remaining perk and wants to tax the bejesus out of it. just an asshole.
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October 5, 2012 10:51am
Pete George

Dunne announces Whore Tax

As part of the drive to reduce tax advantages for a privileged few Peter Dunne has announced a special tax on prostitutes.

Currently the costs of supporting a wife and the tax incurred on those costs is far greater than the occasional bonk for bucks. Taxing prostitutes will make it fairer for all types of arrangements to have sex.

The imposition on prostitutes will be a dime.
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October 5, 2012 11:02am
Manolo

Dunne announces Whore Tax

Leading by example, Dunne, the greatest living whore in Wellington, said he will gladly tax himself and pay.
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October 5, 2012 11:15am
Scott Chris

Quote of the day from Steven Colbert in reference to the Denver Presidential Debate:

We pundits don’t know whether debates matter, but we do know that debates over whether debates matter, matter.

Wonder if he’s been to Matamata….
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October 5, 2012 11:36am
Longknives

What the heck is going on at Linton Army Camp?
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October 5, 2012 1:04pm
Paulus

Obama cannot speak without a script in front of him which is why he was a disaster yesterday.
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October 5, 2012 1:14pm
grumpyoldhori

Carlos, leaky homes, that is easy, we still have fucking morons who want to build Mediterranean type housing in NZ especially Auckland with it’s damp climate.
The utter bloody fools believe because the frame is treated it cannot rot when it has water trapped against it.

You have two choices in Auckland, build with eaves or build out of block.
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October 5, 2012 3:20pm
b1gdaddynz

Longknives – Drunk Soldier with a gun barricaded in a house? Pretty scary because they actually know how to aim them properly!
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October 5, 2012 3:33pm
Weihana

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7775383/Key-talks-Dotcom-with-Hollywood

Mr Dodd is known to be close to US Vice-President Joe Biden and has been vocal in his opposition to Megaupload founder Dotcom.

In August he said shutting down Megaupload had had a “immediate and positive” effect on the marketplace.

If services like Megaupload have such an impact on the marketplace then why is it that the top 50 movies of the 2000s made so much more money than the top 50 movies of the 1990s?

Every movie in the top 50 movies of the 2000s earned over a half a billion dollars. Every movie in the top 10 earned over 900 million and four earned over a billion with Avatar raking in almost 3 billion. This during a time of rampant file sharing where things like the PirateBay were allegedly driving the industry into oblivion.

Yet contrasted with the 90s, when file-sharing was non-existent, only one movie grossed over a billion (Titanic), the tenth highest grossing movie (Armageddon) grossed 550 million and the 50th highest grossing movie only grossed 141 million. Only 13 movies in the 1990s grossed over 500 million yet all 50 top movies of the 2000s grossed over 500 million.

How do these facts reconcile with the statements of people like Chris Dodd? My comparison is hardly sufficient to address the question conclusively but at face value it does seem like the facts do not marry up with the claims of people like Dodd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990s_in_film
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_in_film
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October 5, 2012 3:52pm
Colville

Weihana. You cant replicate the widescreen cinematic 3D at home and so people like my beloved son went to Judge Dredd 3D last night for the very first showing despite his ability to have a ripped copy if he had wanted it.
Personally I go to the movies to see a show if the movie will be better on the big screen and movies are expensive!.
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October 5, 2012 4:01pm
Nookin

Weihana
I am struggling to follow your logic. Mr Dodd appears to be saying that there was a noticeable effect when megaupload was closed down. Given that the company was only formed in 2005, I hardly think that it is convincing to rebut his argument by making comparisons about earnings in the 1990s. Would not it be more appropriate to identify those recordings that were most popularly uploaded, identify legitimate revenue from those recordings from 2005 until 2011 and then identify revenue subsequently? Your argument is a bit like saying that airlines have not suffered as a result of cost increases in fuel because their turnover is significantly higher than the turnover 20 or 30 years ago.
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October 5, 2012 4:07pm
bhudson

^^ On this topic and Stuff article, I see that Grant Robertson was channelling Vizzini on this the 25th anniversary:

Before he left, Mr Key had said he did not expect Dotcom to be raised during his meetings in Los Angeles.

Labour deputy leader Grant Robertson said that was “inconceivable”.
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October 5, 2012 4:17pm
Weihana

Nookin (2,166) Says:
October 5th, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Weihana
I am struggling to follow your logic. Mr Dodd appears to be saying that there was a noticeable effect when megaupload was closed down. Given that the company was only formed in 2005, I hardly think that it is convincing to rebut his argument by making comparisons about earnings in the 1990s. Would not it be more appropriate to identify those recordings that were most popularly uploaded, identify legitimate revenue from those recordings from 2005 until 2011 and then identify revenue subsequently? Your argument is a bit like saying that airlines have not suffered as a result of cost increases in fuel because their turnover is significantly higher than the turnover 20 or 30 years ago.

How does one “identify revenue subsequently”? What one movie earns is unrelated to what another movie earns, and what one song earns is unrelated to what another one earns. These things are unique and they generally only have one run where the bulk of their earnings is realized.

I have acknowledged that my cursory analysis was inconclusive but I think it is valid to take a broad look at the issue because this is not just about Megaupload. If anyone thinks illegal downloading was seriously restricted because of Megaupload disappearing they are delusional. It’s like the Police shutting down a tinny house and thinking that they’ve made a big dent in the industry meanwhile more of them pop up to take the place of those that are shut down.

Dodd didn’t provide any details to back up his assertion so I took a broad look at how the movie industry has performed over an extended period of time. I’ve compared two distinct decades, one with rampant file sharing and one without. I’ve compared like with like, that is I’ve compared the most popular movies with the most popular movies. This should tend to even out variables due to the uniqueness of each movie. Assuming the claims of the movie industry are true it is remarkable that they seem to have a much greater earning potential than the prior decade in which file sharing did not exist.

Further, your comment about rising costs is not relevant. The issue is whether illegal downloads reduces the gross earnings of movies. Whether production costs for movies have risen is entirely irrelevant. What is relevant is whether illegal downloading is meaning that people do not purchase movie tickets. I agree Colville, the cinema offers something the PirateBay will never be able to provide.
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October 5, 2012 6:36pm
Reid

http://www.naturalnews.com/037249_GMO_study_cancer_tumors_organ_damage.html

The study fed these rats NK603, the Monsanto variety of GM corn that’s grown across North America and widely fed to animals and humans. This is the same corn that’s in your corn-based breakfast cereal, corn tortillas and corn snack chips.

Yummy. Click that link and check those tumours. I quite like GE as a science, but I look askance at how the US have allowed it to be deployed. Once again the Washington lobbyists force commercialism at the expense of humanity and where’s the wisdom, justice or even common-sense, in that? I wonder what would happen if when a new GMO was authorised by the FDA, the FDA were required to oversee the force-feeding under medical supervision of every single senator and congressman who authorised it, the entire board and senior executive leadership, of every corporation who manufactured and marketed the product, with the new “safe” product for a period of say, five years, before the corporation was allowed to release it to the public? I wonder what would happen then? Of course, that would be tewwible, wouldn’t it. Much better to let the sheeple pay their money and take their chances, isn’t it. After all, they aren’t as clever as said senators, congressmen, board members and senior executives, are they? So they probably deserve what they get. Of course we do!
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October 5, 2012 7:23pm
Steve (North Shore)

Another reason for National Standards:
Spelling

http://www.facebook.com/events/440680239308936/#!/photo.php?fbid=10151097209406099&set=oa.431522630217567&type=1&theater
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October 5, 2012 7:27pm
Steve (North Shore)

I wonder how the Human Race survived before we had pastuerised milk?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10838652&ref=rss

Don’t drink raw milk? fuckin hell
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October 5, 2012 7:37pm
liarbors a joke

http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8543517/police-drag-swimmer-from-pool-for-shouting

Madness. Absolute madness.
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October 5, 2012 7:44pm
chiz

Reid:Yummy. Click that link and check those tumours.

The study was funded by an anti-GE group and reached the conclusions that their funders wanted. The lead author, Eric Seralini, has a track record of badly done research and by all accounts the latest work makes the same mistakes that he has done before. The article you link to appears, even worse, to conflate the latest study with one his group did in 2009, purporting to link to the latest study but in fact linking to the 2009 study. Other scientists who have looked at the latest study have pointed out that it is dubious and that many of the claims made don’t make any sense (there is no dose-response relationship for example). Of course the website you link to doesn’t quote any of these critical scientists, it just quotes from Antoniou – a well known anti-GE zealot.

More propaganda from the anti-GE crowd in other words.
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October 5, 2012 7:45pm
nasska

Redbaiter reasoning.

Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/l9PpL
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October 5, 2012 7:46pm
Viking2

Naaska, this is more like it.

http://screencast.com/t/1VVjI3IuKRY
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October 5, 2012 7:53pm
Viking2

I see the Walrus was touting male contraceptives this very evening.

So this for all you fellows. The answer to your prayers.

http://screencast.com/t/pvXyg0ymMh7
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October 5, 2012 7:56pm
nasska

“Bless me Father, for I have sinned.”

The priest asked, “What did you do, my son?”

“I lusted,” Melvin replied.

“Tell me about it,” the priest said.

Melvin then related his story.
“Father, I am a deliveryman for Courier Post. Yesterday I was making
a delivery in the wealthy area of the city. When I rang the bell,
the door opened and there stood the most beautiful woman
I have ever seen. She had long blonde hair and eyes like
emeralds. She was dressed in a sheer dressing gown that
showed her perfect figure. And, she asked if I would like to
come in.”

“And, what did you do, my son?” asked the priest.

“Father, I did not go in the house but I lusted.
Oh, how I lusted,” replied the man.

“Your sin has been forgiven,” replied the priest.
“You will get your reward in heaven, my son.”

“A reward, father? What do you think my reward
might be?” Melvin asked.

The priest replied, “I think a bale of hay would be
appropriate, you dumb ass.”
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October 5, 2012 8:00pm
Reid

chiz, do you know how the FDA and Monsanto operates in the US? If it was your son or daughter who you’re feeding with that food, would you really trust them?
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October 5, 2012 8:17pm
chiz

More on the GMO study claims here by someone who doesn’t mince their words:

[…]earlier this year, we speculated that Séralini was less guilty of actually fudging data to get the desired answer than of performing poorly designed experiments and grossly misrepresenting the results. (Séralini has made a specialty of methodologically flawed, irrelevant, uninterpretable — but over-interpreted — experiments intended to demonstrate harm from genetically engineered plants and the herbicide glyphosate in various highly contrived scenarios.)

[…]

We were mistaken about Séralini. The experiments reported last week show that he has crossed the line from merely performing and reporting flawed experiments to committing gross scientific misconduct and attempting fraud.

[…]

There is so much wrong with the experimental design that the conclusion is inescapable that the investigators intended to get a spurious, preordained result.

[…]

There is no question that the publication of Séralini’s latest attack on genetically engineered foods was a well-planned and cleverly orchestrated media event. The study was designed to produce exactly the false result that was observed and was deliberately allowed to continue until large, grotesque tumors developed. The conduct of the study, including the treatment of the animals, raises serious ethical concerns and questions of scientific misconduct.
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October 5, 2012 8:19pm
chiz

Reid – I have no problem with GE food or with the FDA.
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October 5, 2012 8:19pm
Viking2

Somehting for the God botherers to think about. You can bet they won’t know the answer. Take all night if you need.

http://screencast.com/t/vsMaotSNd9P
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October 5, 2012 8:29pm
Viking2

And on the GE thing.

http://screencast.com/t/aAFLNd2E
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October 5, 2012 8:31pm
Viking2

Got a new job and lost it.

http://screencast.com/t/P7nxtUS7
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October 5, 2012 8:34pm
Viking2

http://screencast.com/t/eAz6iqnKjYKC
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October 5, 2012 8:36pm
nasska

V2 @ 8.29

That’ll get the space cadets thinking & spinning!

#######

“It doesn’t mean anything Honey! ‘Oh God’ is something all women shout in bed!”

Joseph was not convinced.
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October 5, 2012 8:36pm
Reid

For the Islamaphobes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/02/iran-nukes-deterrence

“Let’s even imagine that we have an atomic weapon, a nuclear weapon. What would we do with it? What intelligent person would fight 5,000 American bombs with one bomb?”

Every now and then, they reveal the real reason: Iranian nuclear weapons would prevent the US from attacking Iran at will, and that is what is intolerable. The latest person to unwittingly reveal the real reason for viewing an Iranian nuclear capacity as unacceptable was GOP Senator Lindsey Graham, one of the US’s most reliable and bloodthirsty warmongers.
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October 5, 2012 8:41pm
bhudson

Reid,

Oh please! What errant nonsense. They, the US, have had over 30 years to attack Iran “at will”; attacking a country with no nuclear response.

That is a completely fatuous argument. There is a thin patina of semantic reasoning (economists use it all the time) that says that history cannot be used to predict the future. But history can be used to prove history!

Non-proliferation is a sound principle. Iran manufacturing nuclear weapons is a spark that would ignite the ME even if the US decided to sit back and debate the issue for a while.

Aside from Iran’s Irving-like view on Israel and it’s peoples’ history, there is also the intra-Islamic matter to deal with – Sunni vs Shi’ite. That is as just as likely to lead to armed conflict around the Persian Gulf as a stupid decision by someone in Iran to lob an atomic warhead or two over at Israel.
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October 5, 2012 9:04pm
graham

Viking2 at 8:29 pm:

Fascinating! I never realised all paintings were now treated as accurate historical representations.
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October 5, 2012 9:08pm
Fairfacts Media

It’s good to see Obummer looking so down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKMUHcgsbag&feature=player_embedded
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October 5, 2012 9:15pm
Reid

They, the US, have had over 30 years to attack Iran “at will”; attacking a country with no nuclear response…That is as just as likely to lead to armed conflict around the Persian Gulf as a stupid decision by someone in Iran to lob an atomic warhead or two over at Israel.

Ok bhudson. So why are the US/Israel so concerned over Iran getting it? [Refer top part of my 8:41]
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October 5, 2012 9:15pm
Yvette

Viking2
Adam and Eve with belly-buttons?
Same reason as God buried all those prehistorical animal fossils.
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October 5, 2012 9:21pm
Johnboy

Ah. The Israeli’s are concerned because they feel vulnerable due to the small size of their landmass and will have to make a preemptive strike to avoid any possibility of a first strike on them.

The Americans are concerned because a preemptive strike by the Israeli’s (much as they would like it) will stuff all their hopes of keeping any pal’s in the middle east.
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October 5, 2012 9:27pm
bhudson

So why are the US/Israel so concerned over Iran getting it? [Refer top part of my 8:41]

Reid,

I addressed the top part of your 8:41. Immediately. It is “bovine scatology.”

Why are they concerned?

Well the Israelis don’t really want to have to deal with another holocaust (‘small’ or large.) Nor do they want to explain to a large community why their sons and daughters were allowed to be obliterated.

The ME doesn’t want a rival faction of Islam forcing their will upon them on threat of nuclear devastation.

The US? Well, they would rather not be drawn into unnecessary armed conflict which they could not escape whichever way it panned out.

Iran lobs at Israel – the US stand along side Israel. In a Sunni Shi’ite standoff, Saudi cannot sit as a neutral bystander like Switzerland – not with both Mecca and Medina. Which each faction would want. The US would be, quite rightly, obliged to stand alongside their Saudi friends.
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October 5, 2012 9:28pm
publicwatchdog

Good evening Kiwibloggers 🙂

WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE FOR YOURSELVES HOW WE ARE NOT GIVEN THE ‘DEVILISH DETAIL’ ABOUT WHERE OUR TAXES ARE BEING SPENT?

http://wheresmytaxes.co.nz/

See?

We aren’t told the NAMES of the contractors/ consultants; the SCOPE; TERM or VALUE of the contracted services within each ‘slice’ of the pie chart.

The ‘devil is in the detail’.

Isn’t it time to OPEN THE BOOKS and give us this DEVILISH DETAIL?

Given that New Zealand is ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ – shouldn’t we be the MOST ‘transparent’?

So why aren’t we being told EXACTLY where our public monies are being spent?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1111/S00095/wheres-nationals-corporate-welfare-reform.htm

Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
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October 5, 2012 9:30pm
Scott Chris

His use of maximum flap and a perfect flare out is a joy to behold. I’ve started to talk to him while he eats.

I have named him “Jonathon”!

Crikey Johnboy, you’ve gone all bookish on us. (The Birdman of Alcatraz popped into my head for some reason) Good to see your humane side as well as a literary one…

Umm, you aren’t just fattening it up are you?
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October 5, 2012 9:39pm
graham

Why won’t Penny answer a simple, straight-forward question? Having challenged me to promise something – which I have – she refuses now to hold to her end of the bargain.

Is it possible that “openness” and “transparency” are qualities she demands in other people – but shies away from herself?
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October 5, 2012 9:42pm
Reid

bhudson, all of your arguments assume Iran will use it if it has it.

My first points out the always obvious FACT that Israel has 300+ nukes and US has 5000+

Now why would a country that has one, or maybe two, automatically use it, against either of those two countries?

Given we’re talking about 170,000,000 human beings in that country.

Surely you don’t imagine they would because the Iranians are simply led by nutters who don’t care, whereas Israel and the US aren’t and therefore wouldn’t. But that’s precisely what you believe isn’t it. But why, is my question, because your proposition is fucking nuts bhudson, in the real world of how human beings actually operate. Why can’t you and others who think like you do, see that simple equation?
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October 5, 2012 9:44pm
bhudson

Isn’t it time to OPEN THE BOOKS and give us this DEVILISH DETAIL?

Yes, Penny, it is. Kindly lay out for us your complete records and financial statements, showing where all of the income that funds your activism comes from and how it is spent.

We are also interested to understand whether or not you receive any form of govt funding (directly or indirectly.) And, if so, we would also like to witness the agreement between you and the Crown which allows you to receive such funding without having to adhere to WINZ rules and processes viz-a-viz benefits and work (as such may apply.)

Come on – OPEN THE BOOKS
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October 5, 2012 9:46pm
Griff

Penny Tarnish do you have court in the morning again are you going to be up all nite like you were last time?
Have you answered Grahams questions about your willingness to sign a binding code of conduct that would prohibit you stealing of the council, water company’s and power company’s And will you please tell me what the second clause in the treaty has to do with taxpayers money. Also why you endorse the unite union when its corrupt stealing of tax monies is as crooked as anything else you champaign about?.Who the fuck is dodgy john where has he gone and why should we care?. One last question did you kill that dead cat you wear?
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October 5, 2012 9:48pm
bhudson

bhudson, all of your arguments assume Iran will use it if it has it.

No they don’t Reid. Not at all.

What they predict is that others will act if they do. And from their perspectives [there are more than one] for good reason.

You are merely trying to distort simple logic into the framing of your argument. I won’t buy into it – it is as false and manipulated as it was over ‘gay marriage’.

It is not a question of whether or not they will press ‘fire’ if they have get “the bomb” Reid. It is a question of what will happen within the region if they do get it.
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October 5, 2012 9:51pm
Reid

It is not a question of whether or not they will press ‘fire’ if they have get “the bomb” Reid. It is a question of what will happen within the region if they do get it.

Er. According to you people who advocate attacking a country who hasn’t attacked anyone for 300 hundred years, that’s precisely the question bhudson.

I’m sorry to catch you in your logic quandry, but hey, it’s your quandry, not mine, I’m simply calling you on it. It’s precisely, according to you, the question of whether they get it. That’s precisely what you’re saying. The instant they get it, you attack them. Correct me if you’re not saying that and you’d be quite happy for them to have it and you wouldn’t attack them. But as I read you, you’re not saying that, you’re saying they have to be attacked.

Aren’t you. In which case my simple question remains. Why?
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October 5, 2012 10:04pm
bhudson

Aren’t you. In which case my simple question remains. Why?

No, Reid. I’m not. Sorry to have to (again) lift ‘n’ shift your repositioning back from what I said.

What I plainly said was this: If Iran gets “the bomb”, others will react. The “others” are most likely Israel or Saudi, but given the divisions in Islam, it wouldn’t have to be Saudi, or Saudi alone.

If either Israel or Saudi end up in armed conflict with Iran as a result of Iran getting “the bomb” then the US will be forced to side with whichever of them are up against Iran [for different reasons, but fundamentally because they are an “ally” or “friend” with them both.]

None of that says I would attack Iran. None of that says the US would arbitrarily attack Iran. None of that says or has said) “The instant they get it, you attack them.” [Your words]

You retreat, yet again, to a one-dimensional, semantic argument. Because I set out that Iran, getting “the bomb”, would lead to ME instability and, likely, armed conflict, which would also draw the US into it, I am saying I would attack Iran if they get the bomb. Or that anyone should. Or that Iran is “the enemy.”

You used the same one-dimensional, semantic argument on gay marriage when you tried the “prove the actual discrimination. No, that was fixed by an amendment, therefore there is none, therefore there is no argument” line.

You are merely trying to repeat the tactic here.

Trying does not work
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October 5, 2012 10:14pm
Reid

What I plainly said was this: If Iran gets “the bomb”, others will react. The “others” are most likely Israel or Saudi, but given the divisions in Islam, it wouldn’t have to be Saudi, or Saudi alone.

No, Israel will react. Saudi wouldn’t, ever. If you think it would you don’t get geopolitics.

So this is my point bhudson. Maybe Israel would react. And if it did, my point is, why?

So what if it does?

If it was wrong to react, then why does that make it imperative the west reacts?

Why can’t we leave Israel to stew in its own juices if it stewed those juices itself? That’s my question.

You seem to hallucinate that if Israel reacts that automatically means we must. Like some pavlovian dog, salivating at the bell of its master.

Sorry bhudson, I don’t think that, I never have. If you want to be Israel’s dog, be my guest.
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October 5, 2012 10:34pm
bhudson

If you think it would you don’t get geopolitics.

I’m sorry that both UN-Iraq conflicts passed you by Reid. Perhaps you have a ‘blackout’ in your geopolitical reasoning.

As for leaving Israel to”stew in its own juices”, perhaps that is best addressed with the US and the historian Irving. One of them would agree with your point of view.

It is also not a matter of “an imperative” – again you trying to wrestle the facts to you line of argument. The history, friendships and alliances point to the West acting.

“Israel reacts…means we must.” Yet again, Reid, you try to position that I have said we must attack Iran because they get “the bomb.” What I said was: someone in the ME will – either Israel or Saudi, most likely – if either do, the US will be drawn into it.

Kindly desist from your semantic argument which serves to only try to drag the argument back to your flawed logic. This is not about Iran pulling the trigger as soon as they get it. It is about the consequences within the region if they do [get the capability]
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October 5, 2012 10:42pm
Reid

It is about the consequences within the region if they do [get the capability]

So bhudson, if a psycho in the neighbourhood attacks a person who wasn’t doing anything wrong, it’s the innocent person’s fault because the psycho couldn’t control themselves?

Correct my parallel where it’s wrong, if you can.
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October 5, 2012 10:47pm
bhudson

Twisting again Reid. You actually can’t help yourself, can you?

1. Neither Isarael nor Saudi are psychos
2. Neither are patrolling their (ME) neighbourhood to attack someone doing nothing [unless you deny the causes of the 6 day war like Luc Hansen, then Israel, for one, is a defender, not an aggressor]
3. Someone who wasn’t doing anything wrong – well, even if we set their human rights records aside [which we should not], building a bomb under a non-proliferation regime is not considered not “doing anything wrong” Reid

It is difficult to see how you could see the instigator of instability as the “innocent” here Reid. Unless you had preconceived view as to innocence and guilt [and I contend you do.]

You parallel is anything but, Reid.

And that brings us back, yet again, to your one-dimensional, semantic approach to a debate. You, again, twist a piece to try to re-frame back to your line of argument.

[And by the way – Neighborhood Bully was a defence of Israel, not a condemnation. Perhaps you should try listening to it again. And remember – “Egypt and Rome. Even the great Babylon” were references to persecutors who had fallen by the wayside.]
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October 5, 2012 10:56pm
Reid

Unless you had preconceived view as to innocence and guilt [and I contend you do.]

Which is where this conversation started bhudson, with your preconceived guilt of Iran.

Which you proceeded to illustrate in every sentence.

I’m BTW not presuming Iran’s innocence. I’m simply saying why on earth does anyone think MAD doesn’t apply to her just as it does to every other country like the US, Russia, India, China, Pakistan, Israel, etc. Do you think it doesn’t just because Israel says it doesn’t? If so, what happened to your logic circuits?
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October 5, 2012 11:01pm
bhudson

Which is where this conversation started bhudson, with your preconceived guilt of Iran.

Reid, that is plain nonsense.

I have not leveled any accusation at Iran. You have absolutely zero grounds for saying that I have any preconceived notion of guilt on their part.

What I said was, that if they did get “the bomb”, others – most likely Israel or Saudi – would react. And that such a reaction would bring others into the conflict.

(Now if they are trying to get “the bomb”, then they certainly will be the instigators of the actions that follow.)

Yet again… You cannot help yourself.
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October 5, 2012 11:07pm
Reid

What I said was, that if they did get “the bomb”, others – most likely Israel or Saudi – would react. And that such a reaction would bring others into the conflict.

Yes. and what I’ve been saying, is so what? Like I said, if a psycho attacks someone for no reason, then who is to blame? The psycho is, of course. Not the one who is attacked.

And if Iran does get a bomb, then who cares, except a psycho, since MAD applies. It always has, and always will.

Pretending Iran is to blame for herself being attacked by a psycho is with respect bhudson, completely nuts. I think I’ve said all there is to say, if you can’t see why it is nuts, then re-read some or all our above.

G’night.
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October 5, 2012 11:20pm
Manolo

Speaking his mind?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-we-dont-believe-anybody-entitled-success-country_653749.html
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October 6, 2012 6:42am

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