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October 19, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 October 2012

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General Debate

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Kevin

Yes I personally agree with penny. Council spent $20k on a matchbox sized sculpture in potters park. What don’t we,know about.

Personally I believe that the ratepayer should have the right to audit every single bank transaction that council make.

My rates went up 400% between 92 and 03.

Rodney’s pathetic solution is to allow Len brown to borrow 30 billion for the Len brown gravy train, which our children will have to pay for.

Is that the sort of stuff penny is talking about. Lets,stop the borrowing against our kids futures eh penny ?
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October 19, 2012 10:15pm
Reid

To be brutally honest the simple minded idea that the us is only interested in the Middle East for its oil is untenable

I haven’t read that into Luc’s comments Kevin and that’s not my view either. But to be brutally honest to hallucinate the US is not interested in the ME because of it’s oil is similarly untenable. I’d go further and allege such a mindset is for geopolitical babies who don’t understand anything about anything re: why things are done in this brutal and hard-nosed world of ours. To imagine the US is only defending itself against terrorism originating in the ME not only belies history (study it) but also belies anything but the most trite and superficial analysis of the US and UK ME adventures since 911.

Also Israel is a convenient rallying point for anti American extremists wanting argue the that the US is imperialist.

No Israel is a convenient rallying point for people who wish to claim an objective and just solution means we should give Israel everything it wants without regard to anything else because they’re victims. I mean they were persecuted in the war and now they’re persecuted by all those nasty hate-filled Arabs all around them and what did they ever do to anyone. That’s the rallying point Kevin and if you wish to get real in 2012 then you HAVE to, not optional, you HAVE to, look at what Israel has done since 1948 just as you HAVE to look at what have the Arabs have done. And when you LOOK at what Israel has done you see western paw prints all over its history in great detail but if you don’t wish to be a mere shill Kevin then you HAVE to look at both sides. And most people don’t because it hurts their tummies because most people seem to think that the mere thought of looking critically at the actions of the Israeli govt and the western govts who’ve “supported” them [hint: why have I used quotes there? Advanced question] is anti-Semitic. Which quite frankly mate, is fucking nuts.
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October 19, 2012 10:21pm
Kevin

These issues have been debated ad infinitum on this and other blogs. Israel was created legally under international law etc etc. I have looked at history and it is clear that whether or not Israel exists or whether or not there is oil the ME would be a flash point.

I don’t think people support Israel just because Jews are victims, and I certainly do not think that oil was the main motive for Iraq it was revenge yes, a genuine belief that sadam was dangerous (true) and collective guilt about the ludicrous decision not to go and extract the little bastard in 1991.

Yes the us has made foreign policy blunders but they are generally not about the ME where I think they have tried very hard and got slapped in the face by a small minority of very rich elite militants who are quite happy to use their people as cannon fodder and human shields.

They are the brutal people you should be concerned about, not the US.
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October 19, 2012 10:48pm
graham

Penny has previously claimed that her house is freehold, and that she has people living with her who fund her – in other words, I guess they are flatmates or boarders. Personally, I see no reason to disbelieve her on this particular claim. Up to each individual as to whether they believe her or not.

Oh, and my rates have gone DOWN, thanks for asking. 🙂
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October 19, 2012 11:10pm
Reid

What you need to look behind Kevin is what good well meaning and well intentioned people like you and I and Luc and everyone else on this blog look at, and look at what motivates the people who are in politics and in power, and recognise the difference between those people and you and I.

To do this successfully you need to drop concepts like patriotism and heroism and righteousness and justice and look straight through all of that and look at them as they actually are. It’s quite easy to do in domestic politics since that involves idiots we look at every day and therefore it’s quite easy to see who are good, well-meaning people and who are complete bullshit artists.

It’s much harder to do this successfully in geopolitics, since it involves sometimes, attributing venal and worse motives to those international leaders whom you ideologically agree with and see that, hey: the emperor has no clothes.

And that creates cognitive dissonance a.k.a. sore tummies. Most people can’t do it. No-one however thinks they have cognitive dissonance because it’s part of who they think they are. The key to recognising whether or not you have it is: what is your reaction to contra intel. i.e. that which alleges something that totally contradicts your world view. Like say, Israel is a thug nation. What does that statement say to you. That’s the extent to which you have cognitive dissonance.
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October 19, 2012 11:11pm
tom hunter

and most I have never heard of,

Never a truer word spoken by you.

… and even before that the Soviet influence was diminishing along with its economic clout.

Luc reckons that the last thoughts of Iranian soldiers crushed by Iraqi T-62 tanks was, “this is the fault of the USA”.

But yes, there are some states the US has had little to do with (or, who managed to slip the noose, temporarily),

Ahahahahahah. Shorter Luc: I put forward the usual US-supports-local-thugs argument and got caught out. The word temporarily adds a touch of polemical class.

Syria: provided the US with a torture palace for the unfortunates ‘rendered’ up for testicular surgery.

I can’t wait to see the link that backs that one up: “Hi Mr Assad, this is the CIA, we know you’ve been really tight with the KGB for decades, but can you take some guys off our hands?.

Saddam: He was a client of the west until he fell from grace, and he was provided with the means to manufacture chemical weapons. The motivation of the west was: pecuniary advantage.

My name is Luc Hansen, I listened to nothing that you said and so I’m just going to repeat the same old far-Left bullshit again. But if you want to blame the Germans for building pesticide factories, be my guest. Just remember the key words: “dual use””. The Germans were a bit shocked when they found that out too.

Israel’s job is to keep the region in a constantly unstable state and this also plays into the hands of the resident dictators to resist demands for democracy..

You have no right to ever again tease Reid about his Jewish conspiracy theories.

You can babble and deflect all you like,

They’re called reasoned arguments, and they’re are not refuted by merely repeating the same, tired, old assertions.

Phew! That’s a lot of typing for a barely proficient ~~typist!~~ thinker.

Iran: 1953. Uppity wogs daring to claim ownership of their own resources so the US and Britain turned the country over to the murderous Shah – is that the stain you are referring to?

As I said earlier, a topic worthy of a separate comment.
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October 19, 2012 11:15pm
graham

Kevin at 10:15 pm –

Penny does have the very occasional valid point. Regretfully, she usually manages to go WAAAAAY over the top with her conspiracy theories, wild accusations, witch-hunts (which tend to be politically motivated) and somewhat ludicrous comments, thus ensuring that no reasonable person will take her seriously.

She is also exceedingly hypocritical, which I find somewhat annoying.
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October 19, 2012 11:17pm
David Garrett

graham: If her funding is from like minded well wishers – some of whom even work for a living – all well and good…but why doesn’t she simply say so here?

Mind you, it is getting late, and she is clearly no spring chicken… Perhaps she will come back to us after a good hearty bowl of lentils in the morning…
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October 19, 2012 11:23pm
Reid

You have no right to ever again tease Reid about his Jewish conspiracy theories.

Tom, it’s history. Facts. What school did you attend? (It’s just it doesn’t appear to have been a very good one, that’s all.)

BTW, what specific “Jewish conspiracy theories” have you hallucinated I’ve been discussing? Pray elucidate.
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October 20, 2012 12:00am
Longknives

Re Penny and her Lentils-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYHEACE-v0k
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October 20, 2012 12:14am
Manolo

The end of this bloody tyrant? http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/10/18/3056621/fidel-castro-suffered-a-stroke.html
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October 20, 2012 6:41am
Kevin

Yes Reid I agree in principle with what you say about politicians, national and international esp the UN.

But Israel a thug nation? To say that out of context is getting close to the anti-American trump card -That McDonald’s fatty chips are an instrument of American imperialism.
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October 20, 2012 9:00am

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