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October 18, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 October 2012

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Jack5

The NZ Herald reports Chand, who killed Christie Marceau, has been sentenced to three years for kidnapping her. Three years!

Blogger Karl du Fresne is interesting today on David McNaughton, the judge who let Chand out on bail despite appeals by the police and Christie.

http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/
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October 18, 2012 3:40pm
liarbors a joke

..er..I only watched the ridges to make sure..er…it was the actual final, nothing to do with perving at the young skank whats her name..
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October 18, 2012 3:45pm
Luc Hansen

Weihana

bin Laden launched his jihad in response to…(fill in your choice of US actions, but he was pretty pissed when US military bases sprung up in Saudi Arabia – holy land in Islam – after the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq, after his offer to the Sauds to eject Saddam was rejected, and then seriously pissed when after the end of that war, the bases remained).

That is, whichever way you look at it, the foreign policy activities of the US were a necessary precursor to bin Laden going on the warpath.

The fact that this cogent fact is anathema to you speaks volumes for your own mindset.

In addition, bin Laden was representative of neither Islam nor the governments of Islamic nations. He was a criminal renegade who has caused the greatest harm to his own people, not the US or the west, generally. Although we have suffered greatly with the steady erosion of our civil liberties since 9/11, but not in comparison to the Muslims of Iraq and Afghanistan and now, the new victims on the block, Iran.
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October 18, 2012 3:51pm
Kevin

Monolo can always be trusted to find links that show the abolute absurdity of the Orwellian nightmare we are forced to live daily.

“Blame it all on colonialism’

Defence lawyer’s statement … “youthful offending”
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October 18, 2012 3:54pm
Kevin

OMFG I just saw that Key forgot how he voted on the alcohol bill. He is seeriously distracted. I hope he’s not doing a Brash.

How about that snap election national?
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October 18, 2012 3:58pm
graham

liarbors a joke at 3:45 pm:

..er..I only watched the ridges to make sure..er…it was the actual final, nothing to do with perving at the young skank whats her name..

Ew. Really? Thought you had taste.

I personally find them a bit screwed up – I mean, what mother puts her duaghter on the catwalk at age 17 modelling lingerie?
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October 18, 2012 4:25pm
Weihana

Luc,

The fact that this cogent fact is anathema to you speaks volumes for your own mindset.

I haven’t contradicted you on the fact that US foreign policy was cited by Osama as motivating his actions. I’ve simply commented that you seem to sideline the role of religion in motivating his actions as if it played no role or was merely a trivial footnote.

Saying he is not a “representative” of Islam seems rather meaningless. So far as I know Allah doesn’t have a twitter account to let us know who represents him here on Earth. So anyone can claim to represent Islam and anyone else can claim such people to be wrong.

But the fact remains that Osama was quite clear in explaining that his jihad against the United States was seen as a religious duty.
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October 18, 2012 4:30pm
liarbors a joke

the mothers a hag Graham but the daughters something else..until she opens her gob..for which I have the perfect gob stopper.
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October 18, 2012 4:36pm
Manolo

Thank you, Kevin. I knew you would appreciate my tireless efforts.
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October 18, 2012 4:38pm
Weihana

…but not in comparison to the Muslims of Iraq and Afghanistan and now, the new victims on the block, Iran.

Just to add, these people suffer under their own backward ideals and primitive beliefs. Iran is no victim. It is a fanatical fundamentalist regime. Or do you suppose that the execution of homosexuals reflects the wisdom of reasonable people?
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October 18, 2012 4:39pm
joana

The Iranian people are victims..Many still follow their old pre islamic religion in private..many of the young people are heroin addicts. The wealthy send their young abroad.
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October 18, 2012 5:20pm
MT_Tinman

graham (1,389) Says:
October 18th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
liarbors a joke at 3:45 pm:

I mean, what mother puts her duaghter on the catwalk at age 17 modelling lingerie?

Fucking near any mother who could – most models start a damned sight younger than 17.

I’ve never seen slag-the-younger, hardly ever seen slag-the-mother but don’t blame them, blame the halfwit who put them on the television.
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October 18, 2012 5:21pm
joana

Elaycee…
Great comment re Sanitarium..I agree..When you go to another country , you should fit in with the new country’s laws.
Re Kohanga..Some pommie prat has been telling them what to do for some time..I haven’t seen him but he can’t look worse than Longstocking..You would think on her salary , she could get a haircut and some lippy. How are all these poms getting into the education ministry? How do they pass the immigration requirements for there not being a NZer who could do the job? Or is that just another joke?
Lots of supportive comments on the Herald comment section for Winston..Smith is a wally and why do such well paid people need a translation service? Winston is right..The people who watch parliamentary TV are sick to death of Smith’s interpretations.
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October 18, 2012 5:48pm
Luc Hansen

Weihana

These criminals misappropriate religion for their purposes, just as Bush and Blair did to justify their murderous rampages.

Nothing the Iranian people believe in or do within their own country justifies the mayhem the west, and Israel, is girding its loins for. Your hatred of all things Islamic, like that of Joana, who just just left her Hail Marys to join the fray, overrides all other considerations, including those of universal human rights.

I hope you enjoy the war from the safety of your lounge.
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October 18, 2012 5:54pm
Luc Hansen

Meanwhile, I see Mr Key had another Romney moment today.

Did he really forget how he voted on the alcohol bill or did he just bend with the wind at the mention of 37% (maybe he got confused with 47%).
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October 18, 2012 5:56pm
wat dabney

“The average combined global land and ocean surface temperature for September 2012 tied with 2005 as the warmest September on record”

Translation: Temperatures still flat, contrary to all the alarmism.

Meanwhile…

“New paper confirms the climate was warmer 1000 years ago”

“This new analysis shows that the warming we have seen in the late-20th century is not unprecedented… Seen in the reconstruction is a well-defined peak of temperature between 950–1050 AD. They also find that the first millennium is warmer than the second.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/new-paper-confirms-the-climate-was-warmer-1000-years-ago/
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October 18, 2012 6:01pm
liarbors a joke

Sad day for NZ justice system when no ones held accountable for Kahui twins death. Case closed. End of story. BOTH scumbag mother and father should be strung up for failing to protect THEIR children.
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October 18, 2012 6:08pm
tom hunter

Bin Laden may have cited political motives, and those motives may have been genuine, but they clearly cannot be separated from his religious belief. There is no separation of religion and politics when it comes to Islam. The political disagreements are inextricably linked with religion.

Unfortunately the Western Far-Left (and all too many members of the so-called Centre-Left) simply cannot accept that argument:

I suspect if you carefully examined most Muslim terrorists you would find a complex web of motivations. But this seldom happens. Soon as a Muslim acts violently, it is popularly credited to religious motivation, which is not the case when a Christian/Buddhist/Hindu/Atheist does the same. How often does the media go into a spin about ‘Buddhist violence’ when the Burmese junta murders its citizens?

That’s Sam Buchanan over on The Taliban thread. For many on the Left, any religious rationalisation for action can be dismissed along with the rest of the beliefs. It’s all silly stuff, and hence there must be other reasons:

… but he was pretty pissed when US military bases sprung up in Saudi Arabia – holy land in Islam – after the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq, after his offer to the Sauds to eject Saddam was rejected, and then seriously pissed when after the end of that war, the bases remained).

This is missing the forest for the trees. The point is that Bin Laden was not “pissed off” in the way that some German left-wing group would be in bitching about American Imperialism as demonstrated by American military bases in Germany fifty years after WWII. Bin Laden was pissed off about American military bases in Saudi Arabia because it went against his religious beliefs that “infidels” should not be staining the holy land of Mecca, in the same way that he was pissed off about the loss of Andulasia 500 years ago.

But Westerners like Luc and Sam happily accept the former and reject the latter because the latter is irrational and “silly” – whereas the first aligns with their objectives and is hence “rational”.

The problem comes when Islamic believers start dragging in the modern era as well:

.. also their withholding of arms from the Muslims of Bosnia-Herzegovina leaving them prey to the Christian Serbians who massacred and raped in a manner not seen in contemporary history.

Hang on! Amidst all the classic Imperialist sins of intervention that Bin Laden unloaded on, how did that decidedly non-interventionist reason get in there?

As I recall there was quite a bit of opposition from the Western-Left – protest marches, Wag The Dog and the like – to NATO intervention in Bosnia, and plaudits from many on the Left for the efforts to stop weapons flowing into the area. Same with East Timor, which Bin Laden thought had been “stolen” from Indonesia but whose freedom from Indonesian (and hence American) influence was a long-standing demand of the Left. I think Pilger may be on an Islamist death list because of his writings on the subject.

I don’t see any members of the Western Left accepting that these “foreign policies” that they supported should be held responsible for us being targeted by Islamic terrorists. Yet by the causal standards applied to “American bases in Saudi” we would have to accept that they are.

That’s why there is no point cherry-picking these reasons to find the ones that align with the objectives of some Western group. It’s actually much more rational to look at the Islamic theological basis behind each claim and accept that it’s the overall underlying reason.
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October 18, 2012 6:24pm
joana

Thanks for the laugh Luc.
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October 18, 2012 6:43pm
Manolo

Lucy, try your luck as stand-up comedian. You have a future, comrade.
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October 18, 2012 6:50pm
Reid

Recall the Libyan point which was one of Obama’s highlights on last night’s debate? Well…

AMB Chris Stevens was NOT surprised by his killers in Benghazi, Libya as has been portrayed thus far. According to sources in the State Department Chris Stevens was in Benghazi, Libya at the specific instruction of the Obama White House to recover weapons that the U.S. supplied to Libya rebels in the over throw of Gaddafi. These sources who work in the State Department and the Obama White House say that Barack Obama was directly involved in negotiations with Libyan Rebels in an effort to recover weapons that the U.S. supplied them. Sources say that the arrangements were made between Barack Obama direct talks and that the White House directly arranged for AMB Stevens to travel to Benghazi, Libya on September 11, 2012 and it was by direction of Barack Obama that Stevens was to meet with the very individuals who tortured, raped and murdered him.
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October 18, 2012 6:50pm
Scott Chris

But the fact remains that Osama was quite clear in explaining that his jihad against the United States was seen as a religious duty.

I suspect many members of the IRA were similarly filled with religious zeal. I think you’ll find though that the thing that really pissed them off was the English imperialists occupying their country.
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October 18, 2012 6:53pm
Manolo

Wow! If proven true that would be political dynamite to be used against the Messiah.
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October 18, 2012 6:54pm
nasska

Yay….tell it like it is!

Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/oWCx7
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October 18, 2012 7:02pm
Reid

Richest man in all history, Rothschild’s are No #2.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/meet-mansa-musa-i-of-mali–the-richest-human-being-in-all-history-8213453.html

This is why Rothschild interests own the media, so they can fool the feeble-minded who don’t bother to look at history but simply take it as read on face value, like children take things. The bonus is, if you don’t take it as read on face value, it hurts your tummy, so you quickly fall into line, like little sheep. To the slaughter.
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October 18, 2012 7:16pm
kowtow

English imperialists did not occupy Ireland.Ireland was constitutionally part of the UK and sent democratically elected MPs to London.By 1914 Ireland was to have it’s own Home Rule parliament.
That’s what the IRA didn’t like,and sought to overthrow a democratic arrangement by violence.
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October 18, 2012 7:19pm
Reid

Wow! If proven true that would be political dynamite to be used against the Messiah.

The media won’t be doing that in a hurry Manolo. Just the same as they won’t be criticising Israel in a hurry. They’ll plant the seed, see how it grows, watch it, watch it. It won’t go anywhere, mainstream. Not because there isn’t evidence but because they’ll refuse to air it.

And this is how “they” elect their preferred candidate. It makes it seem as if the decision came from the “grassroots.” When I say “they” of course I’m not talking about the media, I’m talking about the people who’ve already decided who’s going to be elected.

Always with the long game in mind. After all, if they publicise that, pretty soon the trail leads to Hillary doesn’t it, and they haven’t finished with her, yet.
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October 18, 2012 7:27pm
Luc Hansen

Tom Hunter:

It’s actually much more rational to look at the Islamic theological basis behind each claim and accept that it’s the overall underlying reason.

Replace ‘rational’ with ‘simplistic and prejudiced’ and that sentence would be coherent.

And unlike the silly comments above directed at me, I do not discount the role of Islam in, say, 9/11. I mentioned it as a powerful bonding mechanism, as are all religions, but our actions breed consequences and our meddling in the Middle East for selfish pecuniary advantage laid the groundwork over decades to foster the bin Ladens of this world.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Say Tom, where’s your economic recipe for the US that will trump Krugman’s?

I’m waiting…
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October 18, 2012 7:29pm
Viking2

Elaycee (2,853) Says:
October 18th, 2012 at 8:52 am

@Lance: Agree…. our household also looks forward to the return of the real deal, rather than Vegemite. 😀

@LAJ: The tax status has been in place for decades – my point was more in relation to the moron who thought it OK to bring in a product with the intention of passing it off against a brand that holds a registered trademark.

But I have sympathy for any CHC manufacturer who is still feeling the effects of the quakes. Whilst all manufacturers have disaster recovery plans, we all hope that they are never put to the test in real life. In the case of Sanitarium, I heard the delay was due to damage to a unique item used in the manufacturing process… apparently it isn’t an item that can be purchased ‘off the shelf’.

But but, Sani’s could make it in China not so long ago. So many comp[laints they returned the production to NZ.

I guess it coul;d have been made in China again. So the Sani’s are actually using this to “reach us all a lesson” aren’t they?
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October 18, 2012 7:42pm
hj

Thursday, 18 October, 2012 – 11:12
A new member’s bill launched today would help to bring new citizens into the partnership embodied in Te Tiriti o Waitangi, the Green Party said today.

“My Citizenship (Acknowledgement of Te Tiriti o Waitangi) Amendment Bill would have district councils and others who run citizenship ceremonies include mention of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and inform new citizens of the local iwi and hapu in their area,” said Green Party spokesperson for Te Tiriti o Waitangi Catherine Delahunty.

“My research into current practices of district councils revealed 89% do not have any mention of Te Tiriti at all in their current ceremony.

“In many councils, the closest to a mention of Tangata Whenua is the singing of the national anthem in Te Reo Maori or the gifting of a native plant.

“While the 11% of councils who currently make specific reference to Te Tiriti o Waitangi should be applauded, new citizens in other regions are missing out.

“This simple change to the Citizenship Act would help to enhance Te Tiriti as a living partnership for all who live in this country.

“I look forward to my bill being drawn from the ballot and urge the other political parties to support it becoming law.”
http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/bill-will-bring-immigrants-te-tiriti-o-waitangi-partnership/5/138105
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October 18, 2012 7:45pm
nasska

An Israeli tank is chasing a Muslim.
Suddenly the Arab stops, finding himself at a dead end, and starts blasting at the tank with his AK.
He fires and fires with all his heart as the tank is getting nearer and nearer, and then, one moment the Muslim suddenly stops shooting.
The tank also stops and the Jew pops his head out.
“Why did you stop shooting?”
“I ran out of bullets,” answered the Muslim.
“I can sell you some.”
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October 18, 2012 8:00pm
Reid

Here’s a couple of interesting data points:

First, who in the most wealthy lives in which country?

http://www.businessinsider.com/credit-suisse-wealth-report-ultra-rich-2012-10

Second, which country has the highest median wealth?

http://www.businessinsider.com/australian-nations-wealth-2012-10

I’m moving. Right now. We haven’t got a chance, not while our current conservative govt led by a multi-millionaire who still proves, not to have a clue.
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October 18, 2012 8:55pm
Johnboy

I started to feed a magpie outside my kitchen window last week. Now it perches on my heat pump tapping on the window if I don’t give it enough handouts. Anybody know how I can get rid of it?
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October 18, 2012 9:15pm
nasska

Try awarding it demerits JB…..it worked here! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:28pm
Johnboy

I might miss it though if it went away forever nasska! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:33pm
Reid

Give it lots of free food and hug it every now and again Johnboy. Build a little house for it in the backyard. That’s how Liarbore gets people off the dole so it should work. Let us know what happens in a few weeks.

P.S. Don’t forget to pay it minimum wage, in worms, lest it take you to court.

P.P.S. Perhaps to be safe, you shouldn’t feed it yourself, you should employ a qualified magpie specialist feed preparer, lest RSPCA takes you to court.
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October 18, 2012 9:34pm
Johnboy

It’s a pretty little Magpie with a tawny patch on it’s little back and a cheeky look in it’s greedy little eye’s! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:35pm
Don the Kiwi

Its name isn’t Rangi is it Johnboy? 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:35pm
nasska

No such problem with nuisance magpies on this forum JB. 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:35pm
Johnboy

Worms? I only feed it best fillet steak, cut into beak size pieces Reid! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:36pm
Don the Kiwi

JB.
Take your magic wand and turn it into a sheep – then you won’t want it to go away. 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:37pm
Johnboy

What is Te Reo Magpie for “Rangi” Don?
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October 18, 2012 9:38pm
Yvette

Don’t let its appeal fool you, Johnboy – sort it before it becomes inter-generational
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October 18, 2012 9:39pm
Johnboy

It’s too bloody fast for my magic wand Don! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:39pm
Griff

Wat wuwt
From the paper you linked to “equalling or slightly exceeding the mid-20th century warming”
Yet you say late-20th century is not unprecedented…
You do Know that most recorded warming is since 1950 don’t you? and your paper does not propose a temperature higher than 1950 And it only is for the The extra-tropical Northern Hemisphere temperature not the global temperament as you should know no one doubts the area was warm in the medieval warm period its there is no proof for a global temperature peak then I will note that MBH98 was a pioneering paper in terms of the reconstructions – much work has followed on in both reconstruction techniques, additional and improved proxies, All of the work supports the late 20th century being as warm or warmer than anything in the last 1200 years, and warming faster than anything we have data for.
There is a recent paper by Gergis et. al., in a post on Real Climate site, that covers proxies for Australia and Oceania and results in a hockey stick
Best read some more rather than only look at the denial sites

As to record warm its neutral southern oscillation any one that follows climate knows warmer years are El Nino
We are coming out of the solar minimum the climate lags one or two years behind yet we are showing record warmth in what should be a cool period. As you have now admitted that temperatures are higher than 1998 you can not say it has not warmed since then 😆

Oh and on your Antarctic ice volume seven papers and the grace satellite say shrinking one paper says expanding. Time will tell yet at the moment seven papers. Plus the fact the expansion of the oceans must be from both thermal and glacial melt supports the seven not your one.

Hows a Watts paper going has he got it published yet?You know McIntyre distanced himself from being named on it as it has very basic flaws.
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October 18, 2012 9:40pm
Don the Kiwi

Shit JB, don’t start with Te Reo – next thing it’ll have all its rellies there too. 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:41pm
Johnboy

Ce qui est français, car je vous adore Magpie Yvette ?
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October 18, 2012 9:41pm
Johnboy

Too late Don! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:41pm
tom hunter

Replace ‘rational’ with ‘simplistic and prejudiced’ …

There’s nothing more simplistic and prejudiced than cherry picking reasons that align with your own and discarding the rest – speaking of which ….

… but our actions breed consequences ….

And I just finished explaining to you that if you wish to apply that standard you’re going to have to accept that our “actions” include ones the Western Left approved of. That’s not to say that I think it’s the fault of the Left, but to make the point that you’re wasting your time – and being mendacious – with your approach to accepting some of their “reasons” and not others.

and our meddling in the Middle East for selfish pecuniary advantage

The West has sent tens of trillions of dollars into the ME for their oil since the late 1960’s alone. They certainly did not do that out of altruism but it’s a long way from being a selfish pecuniary advantage either. I use the late 60’s as a starting point because that’s when the nationalisations of Western oil company assets were largely done, which means the bulk of the money was not going to said oil companies. If the local thug leaders (many of whom had driven these nationalisations to cheers from their own people) pissed it away and the local populace saw little of it, I don’t see that as the responsibility of the West.

Say Tom, where’s your economic recipe for the US that will trump Krugman’s?

I’m waiting…

Well you can wait a bit longer. It should not be a problem at your age.
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October 18, 2012 9:43pm
Yvette

Trap it, Johnboy, then take it for a long drive – works in Calgary
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October 18, 2012 9:48pm
Johnboy

As I told nasska earlier, I don’t have a car Yvette! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:49pm
Yvette

Vous n’avez pas d’amis? Peut-être que vous avez besoin de Rangi, après tout
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October 18, 2012 9:55pm
Griff

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/only-nz-has-stimulus-austerity-balance/story-e6frf7k6-1226498768684
NeW Zealand is “the only country” implementing a balanced mix of stimulus and austerity policies, one of US President Barack Obama’s former top economic advisers says.
“For most countries it’s better to combine deficit reduction that you put in place now but that takes effect over time, with if anything, additional support, and that means stimulus, for the economy, effective immediately,” said Peter Orszag in a BBC World Service radio debate during last week’s International Monetary Fund meeting in Tokyo.

“What’s interesting about the fiscal monitor the IMF published … as part of these meetings, is if you look across all the developed countries, there is only one country… which has actually done that, which is New Zealand.”

The country had “coupled additional stimulus with medium-term fiscal consolidation. That’s the right policy combination”.
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October 18, 2012 9:55pm
Yvette

Penny – you ask what do we think of your 2.46 comment

So far you have made extensive demands of the former Securities Commission, the Finance Markets Authority (FMA), the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) and the New Zealand Police, who have all examined you comments regarding John Banks or Don Brash, as former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Huljich Kiwisaver registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009, and these people have all cleared John Banks of any wrong doing.

Now, although the outcome was commented on kiwiblog here last week, you mention today that Parliament’s Commerce Select Committee has ruled on your Petition 2011/5 and “…has no matters to bring to the attention of the House”

So your involvement there of the “highest court in the land” has further cleared John Banks to about the greatest extent now that anyone could desire.

You should probably end your drive now to justify John Banks, as it seems you have taken it as far as anyone can really, to prove his innocence in the Huljich matter.

Otherwise people may misconstrue it that you have an obsessive mental health issue regarding John Banks’ integrity.

I mean, from the Dotcom issue, the rest of us can see he is just a dishonest fucking liar,
so you shouldn’t be corrupting the truth by exonerating him the way you have
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October 18, 2012 9:56pm
Johnboy

Aucun aucun Yvette avec les amis appelé Rangi qui aurait besoin d’ennemis ? 🙂
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October 18, 2012 9:59pm
Reid

Otherwise people may misconstrue it that you have an obsessive mental health issue regarding John Banks’ integrity. I mean, from the Dotcom issue, the rest of us can see he is just a dishonest fucking liar, so you shouldn’t be corrupting the truth by exonerating him the way you have

It’s quite obvious to many of us Yvette that Penny fancies John tremendously. After all, you only hurt the ones you love, and I personally have been waiting for ages for the gossip section in the newspapers to announce John and Penny are a hot “item.” I’m not too sure however that outing Penny in her secret desire is the best idea. Perhaps we should all just stand aside and let the mystery of love take its natural course.
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October 18, 2012 10:12pm
Yvette

Rangi le Magpie – chapardeur ou moulin à paroles
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October 18, 2012 10:13pm
Johnboy

Well Johnboy fancied her till she failed to deliver his barbed wire! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 10:14pm
Tauhei Notts

Nasska at 8.00
Brilliant!
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October 18, 2012 10:17pm
Yvette

Reid
It just upsets me to see such talent get stuck in one place
Penny could be attacking big corporate corruption, like British American Tobacco advertising in prime time on television – pretending to be about branding, but ultimately in the interests of increasing or at least holding the tobacco market.
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October 18, 2012 10:18pm
Johnboy

Those Catholic church ad’s need someone to sort them out. Bloody insidious they are! 🙂
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October 18, 2012 10:22pm
Manolo

Right-wing????

John Key’s right-wing government has gained support from an unlikely quarter, with one of US President Barack Obama’s former top economic advisers, Peter Orszag, saying New Zealand is “the only country” implementing a balanced mix of stimulus and austerity policies.

http://money.msn.co.nz/businessnews/national/8550257/top-obama-economic-adviser-praises-nz
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October 18, 2012 10:53pm
Manolo

Alcohol-nazis across the Tasman: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/industry-revolts-as-federal-health-agency-proposes-ban-on-discount-booze/story-e6frg6n6-1226494990848
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October 18, 2012 10:56pm
Luc Hansen

Tom

There’s nothing more simplistic and prejudiced than cherry picking reasons that align with your own and discarding the rest – speaking of which ….

The kindest riposte I can think of for the above is…pot, black..

And I just finished explaining to you that if you wish to apply that standard you’re going to have to accept that our “actions” include ones the Western Left approved of.

I don’t self-identify with the “Western Left”. You do that for me. I think it’s called projection.

The West has sent tens of trillions of dollars into the ME for their oil since the late 1960′s alone…blah blah blah

And you blithely ignore the fact that the imperial powers, with the US as a leading light, particularly since 1967, either installed, cosseted or armed, or all three, ruthless dictators across the region for the purposes of securing oil supply security. You are using the Niall Ferguson argument of, “Sure, we killed you, we robbed you blind, in general, we really fucked you over, but hey, look at what you got in return. Ungrateful heathens!”

Hillary Clinton: “Mubarak (30 year murderous reign) is a family friend.”

All the dictators in the Middle East in the major oil producing nations were installed or empowered with the assistance of the US, in particular, with Britain and France in tow.

And, um, you also conveniently gloss over Iran, 1953, not permitted to nationalize their own resources. Boy, did the US get blowback over that! Mind you, revenge is a dish best served cold and the US is gearing up to rectify that setback. What do think will satisfy that particular bloodlust – 3 million dead?

Any objective economic analysis will find the Middle East has suffered tremendously at the hands of the West.

Say Tom, where’s your economic recipe for the US that will trump Krugman’s?

I’m waiting…

Well you can wait a bit longer. It should not be a problem at your age.

Clueless wuss.
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October 19, 2012 12:40am
Luc Hansen

Griff (3,190) Says:
October 18th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
http://www.heraldsun.com.au

I think Peter Orzag will soon be eating his words, but, yes, in comparison to the scorched Earth of Europe, NZ would appear balanced.

The tax cuts for the rich will become increasingly unsustainable, inequality will greatly increase, and Key/English will fiddle with benefits, women’s uteruses, Maori etc etc while the country ~~burns~~ sinks further down the OECD ladder.
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October 19, 2012 12:51am
Viking2

Hooper told last night’s gathering that entrepreneurs had a big chance to lift economic prosperity, yet did not have a seat at the table with policymakers. “It is entrepreneurs, not governments, that create jobs. I believe it is the Government’s record on job creation which will prove to be the critical issue of the 2014 election.”

Hooper said Ernst & Young was talking with government ministers in the hope of giving entrepreneurs more policy influence.

Isn’t that so correct.!
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October 19, 2012 6:51am
Viking2

The offshore Taranaki Maari oilfield could ultimately produce more than 100 million barrels of oil, according to field partner Horizon Oil, after announcing the latest remaining-reserves estimates for the field.

No real shortage of oil at the right price.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7835965/Maari-oilfield-reserves-tipped-to-produce-100-million-barrels
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October 19, 2012 6:52am
graham

Reid, Yvette: The happy couple sharing a laugh –

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/YO56TaLlNBs/John+Banks+Len+Brown+Quized+Sale+Street+Brewery/-xuGXVVoZxN/Penny+Bright

The happy couple smile for the cameras –

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/YO56TaLlNBs/John+Banks+Len+Brown+Quized+Sale+Street+Brewery/GWnM2GLtzEJ/Penny+Bright
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October 19, 2012 7:06am
Manolo

Tight as ….: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html
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October 19, 2012 7:20am
tom hunter

Clueless wuss.

Heh, heh. This from the man who proclaimed what if a country doesn’t have a comparative advantage?

My, you are getting scratchy. Quite the little martinet aren’t you? I’ve always thought you’d have made a good Lubyanka drone.

I’ll deal with the rest of your usual rubbish on today’s GD.
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October 19, 2012 7:41am
Griff

luc we will not the oecd ladder is shrinking away from us if euro is printing money and so is the usa our value increases in comparison
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October 19, 2012 7:57am
Manolo

The tooth fairy too: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7836061/Kohanga-reo-can-make-a-real-difference
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October 19, 2012 8:04am
Manolo

The Messiah doing to the US what Labour did to NZ: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/18/welfare-spending-jumps-32-percent-four-years/
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October 19, 2012 8:28am
liarbors a joke

“The offshore Taranaki Maari oilfield could ultimately produce more than 100 million barrels of oil”

psst…dont tell the stoneagers…they will want a percentage..for nothing
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October 19, 2012 9:04am

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