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September 26, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 September 2012

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General Debate

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Kevin

Bill Hodge speaks sense on breakfast this morning for the very first time in his life. The only issue is if the US can produce enough evidence against KDC to convince a NZ court to extradite. Everything else is a sideshow three ring circus. Goodness me, an academic lawyer from Auckland University speaking sense?
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September 26, 2012 8:05am
Pete George

A sick old man has been given ‘a life sentence’ – eight years jail for historic sexual offences. In denial as is typical of cretins liken this. I have zero sympathy for him.

I hope all other sexual offenders out there squirm whenever they see news like this, and wonder when they will get their knock on the door or tap on the shoulder.

Historic sex offenders – squirm.
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September 26, 2012 8:18am
Pongo

Why is Steven Joyce whining like a little girl about the RMA getting in the way of job creation, anyone who has dealt with it knows its a dog. Change the bloody thing you are a minister in government charged with economic development and you have been there for 4 years. And hurry up with the convention centre too.
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September 26, 2012 8:19am
Manolo

She gives the game away: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8538635/madonna-vote-for-black-muslim-obama
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September 26, 2012 8:38am
East Wellington Superhero

This article in the Herald online today starts out looking like a “concerned about our privacy” story, with even a slight air of criticism of the surveying techniques. But then, it posts pictures of the work that they do. Which struck me as basically free adversiting for NZ Post.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10836544
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September 26, 2012 8:42am
East Wellington Superhero

@ Pongo.

Indeed.
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September 26, 2012 8:43am
hj

Experts lament state of NZ child poverty

Anton Blank: More than half of the 230,000 children living below the poverty line are Maori and Pacifica and in 20 years they will make up 60% of NZ’s children.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabId=367&articleID=270416&ce8273=1#

but Maori and Pacifica people shouldn’t have to take responsibility….. for some reason. The notion that they could have fewer children is argued by avoidance of the issue and the suggestion that something worse is being offered as a solution.
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September 26, 2012 8:44am
Pongo

Went to a house auction for a house that has been written off in the quake, land is in a problem area, but you could still happily live there but another big shake and you would be toast. It sold for $417,000 !!! 23 Linkwater Way listed by Harcourts.
Bill English got a productivity report 6 months ago on unaffordable housing with some very good recommendations which he has done nothing about.
Christchurch has thousands of acres of land surrounding the city with the odd horse or cow on it, Brownlee has extraordinary powers to open up land for the 7000 people whose houses are condemned yet has done nothing.
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September 26, 2012 8:59am
hj

Mombiot:
“As the developed nations succumb to extreme inequality and social immobility, the myth of the self-made man becomes ever more potent. It is used to justify its polar opposite: an unassailable rent-seeking class, deploying its inherited money to finance the seizure of other people’s wealth.

The crudest exponent of Romnesia is the Australian mining magnate Gina Rinehart. “There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire,” she insists. “If you’re jealous of those with more money, don’t just sit there and complain; do something to make more money yourselves – spend less time drinking, or smoking and socialising and more time working … Remember our roots, and create your own success.”(3)

Remembering her roots is what Rinehart fails to do. She forgot to add that if you want to become a millionaire – in her case a billionaire – it helps to inherit an iron ore mine and a fortune from your father, and to ride a spectacular commodities boom. Had she spent her life lying in bed and throwing darts at the wall, she would still be stupendously rich.

The rich lists are stuffed with people who either inherited their money or who made it through rent-seeking activities: by means other than innovation and productive effort. They’re a catalogue of speculators, property barons, dukes, IT monopolists, loansharks, bank chiefs, oil sheikhs, mining magnates, oligarchs and chief executives paid out of all proportion to any value they generate.

Looters, in short. The richest mining barons are those to whom governments sold natural resources for a song. Russian, Mexican and British oligarchs acquired underpriced public assets through privatisation, and now run a toll-booth economy(4). Bankers use incomprehensible instruments to fleece their clients and the taxpayer. But as rentiers capture the economy, the opposite story must be told. ”
http://www.monbiot.com/2012/09/24/romnesia/

It sounds right:

“Creating wealth, security and financial freedom is often an investor’s ultimate goal. 90% of millionaires get there by investing in real-estate”
New Zealand has strong population growth due to its progressive immigration policy and birth rates. Many parts of the country are experiencing housing shortages translating into strong tenant demand and price growth. This trend is expected to continue with recent population projections by the New Zealand Department of Statistics forecasting up to 64% growth over the next 17 years. Auckland city is predicted to almost double its population in the next 40 years. For property investors, this represents outstanding potential growth in demand and return on investment. New Zealand’s property prices are also relatively undervalued compared to its closest neighbour Australia.
http://www.nzps.com/
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2009/04/the-omaha-establishments.html
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September 26, 2012 8:59am
Kevin

Whaleoil nailed dem dar Auckland City Council eh.
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/09/do-as-penny-says-not-as-she-and-len-do/#disqus_thread
And look at Jones on the Iwi gravy train to the third world while your at it.

Please everyone sign this petition and also actively join the struggle to stop National and Iwi bringing in a racist constitution, racist seats and role back racist quotas of “unelected representatives”.

http://www.nzcpr.com/petition_EqualRights.php.
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September 26, 2012 9:04am
Manolo

More than half of the 230,000 children living below the poverty line are Maori and Pacifica..

It is never the fault of these parents, of course. Much easier to blame colonisation, cultural differences, capitalism and whatever that comes to mind, than put the onus on those involved, negligent towards their own children.

That is the apologetic and lamentable role played by do-gooders, misguided academics and Maori elites who thrive on people’s misery.
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September 26, 2012 9:05am
Kevin

“John Key should call an early election on this “who owns the rain, wind, air and everything else” issue and National would receive a massive majority. “…Bob Jones

Exactly, and get the beaches back and all.
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September 26, 2012 9:09am
Manolo

But to call an early election would require a pair of steel balls, which, I hasten to add, do not exist in Key’s anatomy.

Neville’s policies of appeasement to the racists are doomed. He should be rolled by a true National Party leader.
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September 26, 2012 9:13am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

Re Madonna

U.S. President Speaks to U.N. About YouTube Video Posted in June

addressing the Muslim world

“… Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense,” said the president.
“Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs,” he said. “As President of our country, and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day, and I will always defend their right to do so …
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-president-speaks-un-about-youtube-video-posted-june
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September 26, 2012 9:28am
Manolo

Bob Jones on the Stone Agers’ claims:
Let’s cut to the quick. Despite the euphemistic deceit about “resources” and the “Crown”, what these parasites seek is for hard-struggling Kiwi workers to give them money without them having to work for it. It’s that simple. They’re a disgrace, not only to Maori but to the human race.
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September 26, 2012 9:45am
Griff

If they go for snap election I would vote any party that says enough of the treaty bullshit even bill and ben
will not vote for national as long as finlyracist is still on the list
The man is a fox in charge of the hen house
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September 26, 2012 9:47am
Fletch

If Obama wins, Madonna will go nude….

“You all better vote for f—ing Obama okay,” she told the crowd at Washington’s Verizon center.

Later in the show, Madonna took off her shirt and pulled down her pants to show she had “OBAMA” written in all capital letters across her lower back.
“When Obama is in the White House for a second term I’ll take it all off,” she said to cheers and whistles from the audience.

She then began singing a slow, seductive version of “Like a Virgin” while rolling around on a piano top.

http://thehill.com/capital-living/in-the-know/258491-madonna-strips-for-obama-offers-profanity-laced-endorsement

Let’s hope he doesn’t win!
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September 26, 2012 9:48am
Griff

Dont you like gilf fletch is it grandads not granys for you?
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September 26, 2012 9:54am
alex Masterley

Kevin @ 8.05

He made the same comments last evening.

I can’t see the illegal enquiries being made by the Comms people having much impact on the extradition case.

Reading the various reports all they were doing was seeing if the targets, Mr Dotcom et al, were aware of the interest of the authorities in them by monitoring email and similar communications. Little if any relevant or probabtive evidence would have been obtained by doing that.
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September 26, 2012 10:02am
lilman

Christchurch Im sick of your pissing and moaning over EVERYTHING!
Yes you have been through hell and yes thing are very poor with regard facilities.
But for god sake say thanks once in a while or at least realise that the people in charge are doing their best in a situation that wasnt THEIR doing.
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September 26, 2012 10:08am
Manolo

“Intelligent” voters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SeJbOU4nmHQ
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September 26, 2012 10:23am
wtfunz

Bob Jones article is a must read. He would have made a fantastic leader of the National Party. Given the clear mandates gained 4.5 years ago I don’t think we would have half the problems we have today with him in-charge. I’ve also got a pretty good idea what he would have told the bludgers to do!
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September 26, 2012 10:36am
eszett

Let’s hope he doesn’t win!

Hope? Just a week ago you said he doesn’t have a chance. Now you are down to “hope he doesn’t win.”
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September 26, 2012 10:52am
kowtow

The world over socialists seek to undermine traditional western values. And as with the curse of environmentalism they are sucking many so called conservatives into their destructive cause.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9563543/France-set-to-ban-the-words-mother-and-father-from-official-documents.html
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September 26, 2012 11:02am
Fletch

eszett, all for the effect of making the joke, doncha know 😉
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September 26, 2012 11:03am
Ross12

hj — Monbiot getting his facts wrong again. Gina Reinhart inherited a debt ridden company one step away from falling over the cliff. She has built up it back up again. Yes she has been fortunate to gain from the resources boom in Australia over recent years. If “Moonbat” was in her place would he have walked away from the boom ?? Or would have continued and created more work opportunities in highly paid jobs to allow others to better themselves.
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September 26, 2012 11:11am
Manolo

An oxymoron: Schwarzenegger and thinking in the same sentence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9564160/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-launches-academic-think-tank.html
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September 26, 2012 11:12am
hj

Green Women’s Hui
Paekakariki Holiday Park Kapiti Coast, N Island
Friday 2 November 4.30pm – Sunday 4 November 2.30pm, 2012
Join us for a weekend of skills sharing and development,
networking and fun. Workshops to be confirmed but you can
be sure it will be packed full of awesome activist and
political development, learning and sharing. Open to all
Green Party member women.
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September 26, 2012 11:17am
Redbaiter

Fake US Mainstream Media Rigging Election For Obama-

Conservative leaders send open letter to mainstream media-

http://truebluenz.com/2012/09/26/fake-us-mainstream-media-rigging-us-election-for-obama/

Go through the bullet points in the letter.

Same thing happens in NZ of course.
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September 26, 2012 11:19am
tom hunter

I’ll save a link to the following article for a Kiwiblog thread on student loans, but I think it’s worth dumping into a GD for people to read because it’s yet another good insight on how having more government in one’s life, even when the intentions are good, leads to fucked up results.

The article is by Walter Russell Mead. Just as aside, he’s an American left-winger who I appreciate for honest, good-faith analysis and argument. I’ve linked to him a number of times and still encountered lefties on this site who snarl about him being an idiot and a sellout (can the phrase ‘class traitor’ be far away). He voted for Obama in 2008 and I’ll be interested to learn whether he does so again in light of what he has to say about US student loans:

The federal government that Democrats like to portray as the friend of the friendless, the hope of the poor, the light of the world and the most generous uncle that ever lived has turned into the most inexorable, hard hearted and relentless debt collector in the nation, hounding a generation of students literally into their graves over loans they will never be able to pay and which they cannot escape. Using techniques that are banned by law when it comes to private debt collection agencies, the federal government is exempt from statutes of limitations and bankruptcy rulings and can garnish Social Security checks and disability payments. Yes, handicapped, disabled people can have their meager checks cut to satisfy student loan debt on jobs their disabilities now make it impossible to do.

To me that is always the key point when I hear some left-winger cranking on about helping the poor and so forth. They absolutely, adamantly refuse to acknowledge that they might actually be fucking them over in the long run (or even, as here, in the short run). How can lefties be so awful to people, especially when they were trying to be so nice:

Once social programs start to go awry, politicians and bureaucrats jump in with fixes, but those fixes often work in unexpected ways. Expanding availability of student loans to open the program up to more marginal and low income students is one example; it raised the number of defaults. The fix for the rising default rate was to make student loans undischargeable: sticking many ex-students with loans that will dog them for decades. The fix for that was a complicated but still punitive program that, like similar government efforts to deal with the home mortgage mess, set up a bureaucratic process that doesn’t seem to do much to help those most in need.

And so on and so forth. The article also links to a very long, in-depth NYT article on the same subject. Read the whole thing and ponder what it means for the NZ situation where we’ve gone the opposite way in dealing with student loans by wiping the interest and being no where near as punitive in pursuing the debtors. One could tout that as being “better”, but actually it’s simply an equally flawed approach to the real core of the problem, which is that a combination of easy money and grasping universities allow students to get into crap they can’t get out of by borrowing too much money for too little qualification:

Does anybody explain to students that going $100,000 into debt for a gender studies or human rights degree might be a bad idea? Or at least an idea with some tough real world consequences? When students choose a major is there anybody from the college to help them think through the likely consequences of the decision they are making?

The problem is that both the colleges and the trade schools get their money up front, regardless of what happens to the students. College departments have incentives to attract students as majors even if the likely financial consequences for low income students are disastrous. Sure, kid, major in literature with a specialty in the criticism of modern poetry. It’s what you care about; you can worry about the student loans later on.

Read the whole thing.
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September 26, 2012 11:30am
eszett

lol, preparing your spin for Obama’s next 4 years, are you Red? 😉

Of course, it’s the media’s fault, the MSM, the one that nobody trusts anymore.
And yes, NZ media are also rigging the election for Obama.
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September 26, 2012 11:32am
liarbors a joke

lol ! Green womens hui..what a hoot. I wonder if delahunty will be there? Im might go along and burn some diesel.
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September 26, 2012 11:36am
Griff

Ross12
rienhart is a fat tart who would like us to work for$2 per day.
The boom is resource prices has made both the big Aussie miners share prices go though the roof. its not her skill its rich daddy and the Chinese boom that made her
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September 26, 2012 11:38am
Redbaiter

“the MSM, the one that nobody trusts anymore.”

Nobody with a brain trusts them.

This naturally excludes Obama’s brainless commie supporters, who believe every word they say.

You only have to witness the worthless crap the left write here on Kiwiblog to know that.
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September 26, 2012 11:40am
Redbaiter

“rienhart is a fat tart”

Seeing as we’re apparently into name calling, you’re a worthless commie fuckwit.
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September 26, 2012 11:43am
Griff

And you are Red 😆
I held bhp warrents @$ 4.00 made 1000 % some commie…. eh
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September 26, 2012 11:48am
Pete George

@PeterDunneMP

NZ ceased to be a colony this day in 1907 – now 105 years later it is surely time to take the next independent step and become a republic.

Surely it is time for us to be an independent nation. Queenie state is past it’s use-by date.
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September 26, 2012 11:56am
Redbaiter

Good. Hope you paid tax on it so that the Police and the thousands of social workers needed to maintain order in your progressive society can collect their wages.

Its because of amoral pricks like you that they’re perceived as necessary.
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September 26, 2012 11:57am
Griff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19487985
Australian mining magnate Gina Rinehart has criticised her country’s economic performance and said Africans willing to work for $2 a day should be an inspiration.

Oh and red your poor fuckwit capital gains are tax free
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September 26, 2012 11:58am
Longknives

“Surely it is time for us to be an independent nation. Queenie state is past it’s use-by date.”

Yeah- With the World on the brink of a ‘Holy War’ it makes perfect sense for us to keep burning our bridges and severing our ties with our ‘old Allies’..because our defence force is just so strong.
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September 26, 2012 12:07pm
Viking2

So there goes Bill’ surplus for another year. via the ANZ/Fairfx tax rort system.

How the hell can a company write of Goodwill?
Goodwill is a capital expense. You pays your money for it and there is not a reason in the world why the taxpayer should refund your money.
Further I bet the shareholders of NBNZ didn’t pay tax on the goodwill they were paid for.

Abandoning the National Bank brand could result in Australian parent ANZ writing off up to $3.5 billion in goodwill and reducing its capital requirement, banking expert David Tripe says.

Dropping the brand within the current financial year might allow ANZ to write off up to $3.5b in goodwill associated with the brand, if it could convince accountants it was allowed to do so under new accounting rules, Tripe said.

That would substantially improve the reported return on equity for the New Zealand business, he said.

It would be a “brave and costly” move to make the National Bank brand suddenly disappear.

“But if you did that before the end of the financial year, you could then write off the goodwill against this year’s profit,” Tripe said.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7728524/ANZ-to-scrap-National-Bank-brand

Here’s one customer gone if they do.
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September 26, 2012 12:10pm
Harriet

gRUFF#

“….rienhart is a fat tart……its not her skill its rich daddy and the Chinese boom that made her…”

A rising tide lifts all boats……..or funnily enough……..”How to help the poor? Don’t be one!” – Lang Hancock[Gina’s dad]

Face reality gRUFF……….Fat tart has more ambition than you! 😎
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September 26, 2012 12:11pm
kowtow

Look at the most succesful,stable and enduring democracies,excepting the USA (and even they share the British tradition).

GB,Oz,Canada,NZ.

Take your republic and your attack on my history and traditions and shove it up your republican arsehole.
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September 26, 2012 12:15pm
Pete George

Tweet on National Bank:

@allenswhuang That’s really disappointing news. I’ll take a Black Stallion over a smug Mentalist anyday.
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September 26, 2012 12:15pm
Harriet

“….Surely it is time for us to be an independent nation…..”

Idiot…….we’ll still be dependant on the VERY SAME fucken countries for the VERY SAME fucken things – defence and revenue.

Anyway….I’m listening……In what fucken way ARN’T we independant?

More a case of the Jew/God haters moving onto the Queen. 😎
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September 26, 2012 12:17pm
Weihana

Pete George (14,714) Says:
September 26th, 2012 at 11:56 am

@PeterDunneMP

NZ ceased to be a colony this day in 1907 – now 105 years later it is surely time to take the next independent step and become a republic.

Surely it is time for us to be an independent nation. Queenie state is past it’s use-by date.

What a pointless and trivial debate that would be… which is appropriate for a pointless waste of space like Peter Dunne. How about a real debate like the wasteful and harmful policies of the nanny state that fuckwits like Dunne champion?
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September 26, 2012 12:21pm
Manolo

Some of us happen to be very proud of our links to England.

Indeed. Please include me among those.
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September 26, 2012 12:21pm
sbk

should be filed under Humour…The Greens call for a inquiry into manufacturing loses.

No need for an inquiry.
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September 26, 2012 12:22pm
graham

Sorry, deleted my earlier post my mistake …

Pete, both you and Peter Dunne are wrong. Some of us happen to be very proud of our links to England.
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September 26, 2012 12:24pm
Redbaiter

Griff, don’t bore me with links to your progressive media mates.
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September 26, 2012 12:26pm
Pete George

“More a case of the Jew/God haters moving onto the Queen.”

FFS. If that statement is representative of the Queen’s followers then it’s certainly time to ditch the monarchy.

I’m aware there are a quite a few wanting to cling to Lizzie’s crown but that will change once they move on to the King.
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September 26, 2012 12:26pm
graham

Um, you DO realise that the British Monarchy is about more than just one person, don’t you Pete?
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September 26, 2012 12:29pm
Griff

Fat tart was left billions ambition i don’t think. so greedy fat pig who wants us to work for $2 A DAY and live on bread and water

And the greedy fat tart is responsible for the trademe ripoff FAIRFAX as well
FAIRFAX Media has confirmed its largest shareholder, Gina Rinehart

and the fat greedy tart rips off her own blood
http://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-fees-for-family-feud-chip-into-rinehart-billions-20120914-25xsy.html
A feud embroiling Australia’s wealthiest family resumed in the NSW Supreme Court this week.
Just over a year ago, Gina Rinehart’s three eldest children launched extraordinary legal action to wrest from her control of the family’s multibillion-dollar trust, which was set up by Lang Hancock for his four grandchildren in 1988.
Mrs Rinehart, whose estimated worth is $19.3 billion, has fiercely resisted the push by John Hancock, Bianca Rinehart and Hope Rinehart Welker to remove her as trustee, employing an army of lawyers and barristers in a case that has gone to the High Court and back.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-fees-for-family-feud-chip-into-rinehart-billions-20120914-25xsy.html#ixzz27WxswAcl
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September 26, 2012 12:30pm
Harriet

“….The world over socialists seek to undermine traditional western values. And as with the curse of environmentalism they are sucking many so called conservatives into their destructive cause….”

They haven’t with me.

I’m helping to maintain the legacy of Rome, Athens and Jerusalem……..when my kids want pocket money…..I make them pledge that. If they don’t….the socialists will take it all away I tell them 😎

“Work hard, save money & support your police.” – Maggie Thatcher.
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September 26, 2012 12:31pm
Weihana

All this talk of being proud about links to Britain are quite irrelevant. The Statute of Westminster gives us effective independence. The fact that our head of state is from Britain is of no consequence and does not make us a part of Britain. She is a figurehead and that is it. If we were to become a republic we would simply do it through our own Parliament, we would not seek the permission of the British parliament and whatever decision our Parliament makes is rubber stamped by our head of state, which underscores the reality that we are already an independent nation.

It’s a bullshit non-debate the only effect of which is to distract people from real issues and problems facing society.
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September 26, 2012 12:32pm
Pete George

Seriously, what sort of support should be required to change New Zealand from a monarchy?
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September 26, 2012 12:32pm
nasska

PG

Possibly the more important question is why bother? The system doesn’t need a fix because it ain’t broke!!

That said I doubt that ‘big ears’ will stop the rot.
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September 26, 2012 12:37pm
kowtow

pg

reverse your 1226 sentence about representative of Queen’s followers,and insert your views or boof hair Dunne’s ,if you are representative of republicans ,it’s time to ditch the debate.

People like you and Dunne and other reptilians are creaming their pants at the idea of more power to whatever elites you profess to represent. Not to mention you want to get your mugs on the stamps and coins,have a “legacy” or some such shit.

Our constitutional monarchies have served the Anglo Saxon world well through many crises,keep it that way.
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September 26, 2012 12:38pm
Harriet

“….but that will change once they move on to the King….”

But Pete…..your an old bastard….and think that of Charles.

But the nextgen all want to sleep with William, Kate and Harry.

Or Shearer and Key in your dumb fucken republic 😎
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September 26, 2012 12:39pm
tom hunter

It’s a bullshit non-debate the only effect of which is to distract people from real issues and problems facing society.

In the proud tradition of Peter Dunne’s efforts to negotiate for and establish the Families Commission, perhaps he could establish the Royal Commission, which would advocate for Republicanism, conduct research on this in the population, and produce reports and advice.

In other words I don’t know what it would actually do or contribute to NZ society – but then I don’t know what the former group has really done either, which makes it perfect for the Bouffant One.
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September 26, 2012 12:40pm
nasska

Harriet

Care to offer odds that we wouldn’t end up in a situation where the President (eventually for life) would have to be Maori?
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September 26, 2012 12:43pm
Pete George

The Statute of Westminster gives us effective independence. The fact that our head of state is from Britain is of no consequence and does not make us a part of Britain. She is a figurehead and that is it.

I agree with that, and I agree that it’s not really broke. So it’s not a big deal to me. But I kinda like the idea that we should be proud enough to stand on our own, nation-wise.

What I think will force it is if we decide we need to confront the future of the country regarding constitution and Treaty of Waitangi. We can comprehensively deal with them without considering ditching historical connections with the other side of the planet.
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September 26, 2012 12:45pm
Harriet

“…..Seriously, what sort of support should be required to change New Zealand from a monarchy?…”

Idiot.

Same as Rhodesia…..eventually.

Look what happened when Ian smith got the boot back to England – it turned into Zimbabwe!

Whites would end in Aussie – just like now with the South Africans and white zimbabweians!
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September 26, 2012 12:48pm
Pete George

People like you and Dunne and other reptilians are creaming their pants at the idea of more power to whatever elites you profess to represent. Not to mention you want to get your mugs on the stamps and coins,have a “legacy” or some such shit.

That’s pathetic, kowtow, nearly as bad as Harriet saying ‘beware of Rhodesia’.

I don’t represent any elites – and it’s ironic you accuse of representing elites when you want to cling to the biggest elite of all.

My aim has never been personal power, it’s been more power for people.

And are you aware that stamps and coins are becoming about as much use in the modern world as queens?
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September 26, 2012 12:54pm
Harriet

“…..But I kinda like the idea that we should be proud enough to stand on our own, nation-wise….”

But in doing so it makes GB appear LESS relevant.

I fail to see how that would help an allied nation – or us, as the UN is useless and that is representitive of nearly ALL nations…..yet….’through’ GB etc at least we have a BIGGER say in security council matters than some South Ameriacn countries who are LARGER than us.

The world is safer with allied nations – no nation allied to the US in WW2 has been invaded SINCE WW2.

That says a lot more about the US than what is usually said about them.
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September 26, 2012 1:04pm
nasska

PG

…”My aim has never been personal power, it’s been more power for people.”…..

Doubtlessly true BUT if we sack the British royal family as our titular leaders then the authority will have to be invested in someone else. The same greedy, grasping Maori elite who are presently fleecing the country will not be in a hurry to ditch the monarchy, mostly because their historic claims are with the ‘crown’. To override their opposition to a presidency will require much ceding & incredible amounts of koha.

The British monarchy has served us well, it’s a bargain & anything that replaces it will smell like dead albatrosses draped around our necks for the rest of all time.
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September 26, 2012 1:04pm
Harriet

“…..My aim has never been personal power, it’s been more power for people…..”

Wake up Pete…..power to the people has been around since the 70’s – just like the welfare system that they are all fucken on!

They’ve all misused their power to bludge off an ever larger tax system. Instead of working and saving they now receive benefits and payments like WFF, tax credits is another bludge too.

In other words – they’re fucken WEAKER!
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September 26, 2012 1:15pm
nonpartisan

kowtow (2,951) Says:
September 26th, 2012 at 11:02 am
The world over socialists seek to undermine traditional western values. And as with the curse of environmentalism they are sucking many so called conservatives into their destructive cause.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9563543/France-set-to-ban-the-words-mother-and-father-from-official-documents.html

France will be an Islamic state before too long and Socialism will cease to exist in that country. Multi-culturalism is part of the Socialist agenda to break down nationalism, but it’s going to backfire on them big time when they lose their countries to the Islamo-fascists.
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September 26, 2012 1:17pm
wtfunz

And therein is PG’s secret agenda.
He can give no other reason for abandoning the little heritage this country has other than enabling him and his commie followers to thereby ensrign the Treaty of Waitangi thus completely crippling this country forever. What a cunning, conniving, back stabbing waste space and oxygen he is. The really, really sad part is that he actually believes this crap.
FFS – crawl back under your rock like the true moron you are.
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September 26, 2012 1:21pm
Manolo

P.G., if I may ask you: will you embrace the Treaty of Waitangi as NZ’s founding document?
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September 26, 2012 1:26pm
Pete George

Harriet, you’re only raving about some people.

I think (all) people should have more effective ways of being informed about, discussing and expressing their preferences on political issues. Rule by referenda is not a practical solution, Colin Craig is yet to discover that.

We need a parliament-public system of communication designed and run by people, not politicians, to enable a more effective people’s lobby.
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September 26, 2012 1:27pm
Redbaiter

“FFS – crawl back under your rock like the true moron you are.”

PG is the guy who frequently presumes to lecture other commenters on how to win friends and influence people.

He’s obviously the true master of that craft.
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September 26, 2012 1:28pm
Pete George

wtfunz – WTF. I’ve never said anything like that, nor do I think or believe it anything like that.

Manolo – I think the Treaty of Waitangi is an important historical document but too limited and too subject to interpretation to be embraced as a founding document in current New Zealand. We need a new modern forward looking document like a constitution. That would need to acknowledge Maori interests but would equallly acknowledge all other interests.
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September 26, 2012 1:32pm
Griff

I like kates boobies she can be queen and on royal occasions we can all go
Oi show us ya tits
Big ears is a sad and very weird man who hugs buildings and thinks the more you dilute medicine the stronger it is
Nasska is right if we become a republic the maori will want koha and chiefdom ship And the living principles of the treaty apartheid for ever
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September 26, 2012 1:33pm
Pete George

Redironic – joke time here is usually after tea. Never mind, you lecturing about “presumes to lecture other commenters on how to win friends and influence people” is very funny.
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September 26, 2012 1:38pm
KevinH

@alex Masterley(1044)
In a word: disclosure. Dotcom can request such and really blow the lid off this circus.
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September 26, 2012 1:42pm
SGA

@PG

Pete, if you had to choose ten countries to live in other that New Zealand, I’d bet there would be a few other ceremonial constitutional monarchies on your list (e.g., Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom). My guess is that the track record for ceremonial constitutional monarchies, on average, is at least as good as for “republics” in terms of things like civil liberties and rights.

Yes it’s archaic and quaint, but if you really think it’s “broken” and needs “fixing” then you’d have a helluva job getting people to agree on what sort of republic (e.g., Constitution, Treaty issues, role of Head of State) they’d want. The devil is in the details.
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September 26, 2012 1:48pm
wtfunz

@ PG again.
Your medication clearly has worn off and run out.

We have one. It’s called the electoral system. The “intelligent voters” of this country have blessed us with a MMP system which gives more voice to the nutters, minorities, extremists than few other electoral systems in the world today. We have very strong minority peoples lobby groups but a very disempowered (by their own choice through complacency and apathy) majority who will finally be vocal when it all turns to complete shiiite’. i.e TOO LATE….

Craig is being quite cunning by appealing to the – have a voice via referenda masses – via this speil but he knows you cannot rule a country this way. He is however trying to wake up the majority and that really scares people like you. Your greatest fear is that the majority will kick the crap out of you and your minority ideas and ideals. I hope he succeeds but he won’t due to the reasons above.
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September 26, 2012 1:49pm
Harriet

“….I think (all) people should have more effective ways of being informed about, discussing and expressing their preferences on political issues. Rule by referenda is not a practical solution, Colin Craig is yet to discover that….”

Parties won’t change pete, they’ll just keep doing as thay are doing now – tossing policy out into the public arena, look at the polling on it, and then change it to reflect the most potential votes.

Just look at the sympathy shown by the left towards those who neglect children – they excuse them and blame the ‘rich pricks’ instead.

The left provides for the neglected children by advocating that prostitution by mum is o.k. if more food ends up on the table.

And just like intergenerational DPP welfare – intergenerational prostitution will become the norm in some families lives.

Sad really – but very true!
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September 26, 2012 1:54pm
Griff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7731990/Rich-Lister-takes-on-Trade-Me
This from the press release of the new online auction site
“We don’t have to report a large corporate base, nor do we have large fat tart shareholders demanding high returns on their investment”
see i told you Rienhart is a greedy….!
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September 26, 2012 1:56pm
Luc Hansen

I’ve only caught snippets of Obama’s UN speech but it seems funny stuff.

For example, one who causes the casual slaughter of children complaining about a fellow causer of casual slaughter of children.

Or one who complains about “killing his own citizens”, from one who kills his own citizens, including a sixteen year old boy. In fact Obama’s sin could be even worse, if possible, because he dresses his murders up in complex legal fictions. But if there is one thing the two main US political parties and the Assad’s of this world are united in, it’s murder and mayhem and torture and indefinite detention as national policy.

There there is the nonsense of addressing the “root causes” of “Muslim violence”. Is the man a complete historical ignoramus? The US is part of the cabal of ex-colonial powers who divided up the Middle East and imposed or enabled and supported dictators who murdered and oppressed their populations for decades, and in many cases, still do e.g. Bahrein. The rage is not caused by the one thing that (largely) unites them, it’s caused by the knowledge of western complicity in that oppression. These days, events like Islamophobic videos and cartoons are just pouring salt on already raw wounds.

Ah well, who’s the alternative to Obama?

…oh fuck.

PS I must email the Cullen Fund and urge them to extend their ethical investing policy to boycotting Israel’s products and services. That can be my good deed for the day.
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September 26, 2012 2:03pm
nasska

…”intergenerational prostitution will become the norm in some families lives.”….

Prostitution commercialises sex….ie. there must be a willing seller & a willing purchaser of the services offered. Unless the intergenerational DPB slags we see locally are in worse shape than the national average it beggers the imagination to think of just who the “johns” might be.

Sixteen stone & upwards of pyjama wearing, KFC scoffing, unwashed baby factory would take more RTD’s than any stomach could hold before even an offer of a free root would be taken up.
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September 26, 2012 2:04pm
Elaycee

nasska:

Sixteen stone & upwards of pyjama wearing, KFC scoffing, unwashed baby factory would take more RTD’s than any stomach could hold before even an offer of a free root would be taken up.

What a lovely turn of phrase. 😀
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September 26, 2012 2:09pm
Griff

Some poor sucker must do the deed nasska or that god dude is busy again making lots of mortal bastards
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September 26, 2012 2:11pm
Pete George

wtfunz – you keep making things up. Craig doesn’t scare me at all. My preference is for a much lower threshold making it more likely the Conservatives will get into parliament. If they do then good on them, they will be able to represent the people who voted for them.

But they will only be a minority, and if Craig tries to kick the crap out of anyone he will likely get the political crap kicked out of him, by parliament and by voters.

Redbaiter likes the Conservative Party because he thinks it will allow him to kick the crap out of the current parties. That shows how authoritarian and dicatatorial he would try to be if he could get a smidgen of power. You seem to be the same. Mogadishu might suit your type of politics better.
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September 26, 2012 2:12pm
Kevin

Tom hunter – excellent post on student loans!

“Does anybody explain to students that going $100,000 into debt for a gender studies or human rights degree might be a bad idea?” 🙂

Of course, as you say, in NZ we’ve gone the other way – you the hard working taxpayer pays for illiterates, solo parents and long term unemployed to be FULLY FUNDED while your kids have to sit next to them with accumulating loans.

Then afterwards any no hopers who did take out loans wont have to pay them back because of our toothless debt colection laws.

Then the politicans sit around saying they “cant understand why all these bright people that we need are going overseas, never to return – dont they know living in a ‘socially just’ country is a huge benefit of staying and working in NZ?”
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September 26, 2012 2:17pm
Manolo

I must email the Cullen Fund and urge them to extend their ethical investing policy to boycotting Israel’s products and services.

Oh Lucy, you anti-semite and Jew-hater extraordinaire!
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September 26, 2012 2:18pm
Kevin

And Luc – we all know political elite will use any excuse, thats just another one. Look at history yourself.
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September 26, 2012 2:24pm
Griff

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-26/an-china27s-first-aircraft-carrier-a-show-of-strength/4281176
The Chinese have just launched their first aircraft carrier. Big time navel power except for one very small detail.

THEY HAVE NO PLANES TO FLY OF IT 😆
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September 26, 2012 2:40pm
Manolo

Remember the Tupolev and Concorde similarities?

It’s only a matter of time before the Chinese, masters of the art of stealing and copying, have their own version of the most advanced jet fighters produced by Yanks, Brits and Frogs.
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September 26, 2012 2:49pm
wtfunz

Pete,
I have a solution for Mogadishu but a I guarantee you wouldn’t like it.
to enlighten you my beliefs are simple : people are responsible for themselves not the state, work for the dole, dpb etc should be introduced tomorrow, the harder you work the more you should be rewarded not assualted by the state, commit a serious crime then don’t expect sympathy, one rule for all tomorrow -no if no buts (shit happens get over it).

You on the other hand think its sad the poor people are on the take and “its not their fault so lets give them more”. You never said a thing when we signed a CER agreement with one of the biggest abusers of human beings on the planet today. In doing so you endorse China as your end goal for New Zealand. I’ve no doubt there are people “disappearing in China” as I write this simply because they protested their rights for a decent income. No social welfare there either. You pander to the whining of a group of people who have made whining a full time job and yet, when multi million dollar payouts happen never ask for accountability re how this is going to ACTUALLY help the tribes people. I am working on some nubers at the moment for this.

Pete – you and your elk are the reason we are loosing thousands of good people overseas every year and the reason there is little hope for the future.

I stand to be corrected and will entertain even one tangible solution to the issues that face us today. Lets start with unemployment.
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September 26, 2012 3:00pm
Manolo

Imagine the appeasers’ complaints if this had been printed in NZ:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/getting_it_said2/
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September 26, 2012 3:02pm
wtfunz

🙂 🙂 – Perfect however manolo.
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September 26, 2012 3:05pm
Pete George

wtfunz – you obviously have no idea what me ‘and my elk’ think. You are making things up, full of crap big time.

“You on the other hand think…”
“You never said a thing when we signed a CER…”
“In doing so you endorse China as your end goal…”
“You pander to the whining of a group of people…”
“you and your elk are the reason we are loosing thousands of good people…”
“I stand to be corrected…”

The last one is the only one anywhere near accurate, but you haven’t shown any signs of being corrected so far.

Have you been sent here from The Standard? You’re spouting made up repeat bullshit like they did.

Spend more time ‘working on some nubers’. Have you been assessed under National Standards yet?
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September 26, 2012 3:29pm
Colville

PG, you have a heard of Wapiti? 🙂
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September 26, 2012 3:32pm
wtfunz

Still no solutions PG — just more crap. Are you in favour of the National Standards by the way?
I am patiently waiting for you to convince me I am wrong about you.

nubers for you – 61,000 registered tainui tribesmen. Book value of Tainui assets $700,000,000. Net Profit for the Group last year = $40,000,000.
1. How do the tribemen hold/ have their “shares” registered?
2. What share of the profit do the tribemen get each year – you know Pete – a dividend?
3. How do they declare all the above to re WINZ, DPB, Invalid Benefit?

Don’t worry – I don’t expect an answer here either – good nubers though eh bro’.
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September 26, 2012 3:40pm
MH

And what do we get in a Republic? A president who appoints his/hers mates,a judiciary that is voted in presumably by the President who will be given real absolute powers. Better to have the allusion with the GG than that of one man/woman. And America where generation after generation they seek a familiar face,a name like Roosevelt or kennedy or England with Cromwell? They are crying out or a King/Queen and only profess loyalty to their President as long as he reigns. I like my military swearing TRUE allegiance to HM the Q and her heirs and successors unlike the Polies Clark and that bitter Irishman Bolger.
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September 26, 2012 3:49pm
MH

The Chinese actually got hold of the hulk of the former HMAS Melbourne to figure out all the water tight compartment configuration reqd to build one and if you go to the port nearest to Tianjin/Beijing you’ll find the old Roosky STOL carrier Kiev tied up. Turned into a game park and so Wiki now tells me a Hotel.Near the historical Fort dagu-part of the Boxer rebellion,amazing history round that area esp Tianjin with the old historical houses from the Imperial eras of Britain,Germany,France and America.
This latest carrier has been saved from the Roosky scrapyard too. India will be updating their Carrier reply soon enough-2014 and then the Pakis. It is going to be fun in the Indian ocean.
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September 26, 2012 4:05pm
wtfunz

Our great Govt today – all power tuby Tariana:

The Customs and Excise (Tobacco Products-Budget Measures) Amendment Bill was introduced by Tariana Turia in May, and seeks to amend the Customs and Excise Act 1996 to make 4 cumulative 10% increases to the duties on all tobacco products. It passed its second reading unanimously.

No worries however as guess where the next benefit increase is going – smokes – na na na, food – “yeh right”. Pass me a Tui’s.
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September 26, 2012 4:07pm
hj

National Party! j’accuse [it’s large but an interesting specimen:
“DAVID wrote:
I find it strange that TV3 wont report the fact that I was brought up in severe poverty, by abusive high income earning parents, that as a result of that abuse it was the poor in Otara that saved my life. That the abuse was never stopped by government agencies because My father was associated with Ministers high in the National Party… this information is documented in all my social welfare files.. which I can provide to TV3. You give haters like Observer and Mike… who overgeneralise… who steereotype and who have no idea about New Zealands real issues are a larger voice than you do a surviver of extreme abuse and poverty. As a result of the incompetence of the National Government at the time I ended up suffering from Bronchiectasis, Osteoarthritis as a result of traumatic injuries, dysautonomia a trauma injury that is recognised but not diagnosed in New Zealand for purely financial reasons and that causes uncontrollable defecation, Myoclonus, Scoliosis, Blepharitis, Keratoconjunctivitis, PTSD, Somatic oversensitisation of pain receptors, daily black outs, convulsives states from chronic fatigue and a big list of other things. Why does TV3 ignore real stories to post comments from uneducated louts like Mike and Observer… who are clueless. The poor people of Otara saved my life in many ways… families who were on benefits who went without food themselves and fed their children.. families who didnt drink or smoke or shoot up drugs and made sure their kids had food before they did themselves and who shared their food with a poor aenaemic child who was being starved and repeatedly raped, drugged stabbed and abused?. Its attrocious that TV3 seems to have such a strong right wing bent and allow clueless posters to contribute to something they obviously know nothing about. Come on!!”
http://www.3news.co.nz/Default.aspx?TabId=367&articleID=270416&ce8273
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September 26, 2012 4:13pm

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