General Debate 13 September 2012

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Manolo

Bomb the primitives. Blow them to smithereens, because that’s why they deserve. Only Scott opposes the idea.
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September 13, 2012 2:20pm
tom hunter

My view is simply a pragmatic one.

There’s nothing pragmatic about taking seriously the invented, meretricious excuses of a violent mob and trying to placate them by demonstrating how much you “”understand”.

We are in Muslims lands, where we do not belong …

I hate to tell you this, but as a result of modern communication “we” are in Muslims lands 24/7, and if one did take the claims of the Libyan and Egyptian mobs at face value that is the reason they’re so “riled”.

But in fact it is neither. When Osama first got cranked up about the USA it was because the US was “occupying” Saudi Arabia simply by having troops sitting on their asses there, rather than the specifics of booting Saddam from another Arab country that he’d invaded, let alone bombing the Saudi population, whose leaders had requested the US in the first place to save their worthless asses. Osami’s objection was not anything as visceral as a US bombing raid, but the fact that the infidels were too close to his beloved Mecca. His rationale falls into the same category as those who object to movies: it “offends” them.

The invasion theory has been pushed for decades by far-lefters like Chomsky, Pilger and Zinn. It’s a real shame to see a right-winger buying into it.

What evidence do you have that bombing Muslims & occupying their lands, makes them -less- radical?

They must be very different creatures from Germans or Japanese then – or else we’re fighting wars in a very different way from days of yore. But of course, we are!

I would not get too invested in pushing this idea though. Almost every right-winger I know back in the US wants nothing more than to completely wash their hands of the shithole that is the ME. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s an option either. In any case, as has been pointed out by many left-wingers, the Sep 11 attacks were not carried out by people emerging from populations “bombed” by the USA or even avowed enemies like Libya and Syria but from places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia – and organised out of a country whose leaders had been supported by the US in their war against the Soviets.

In short – another excuse.

The current approach is not working.

No kidding. Let me say up-front that although I’m no isolationist I also have zero confidence in our ability to do nation-building nowadays, especially in places like Afghanistan. But I also have no faith that the following is the answer – in fact I think the attitude expressed here will make things much worse. It’s from the twitter account of the US embassy in Cairo and it’s even worse than the statement that was published on their website. The sad and terrible thing is that you could easily see a conversation like this taking place on any number of left-wing blogsites – except this is an official employee of the US government, in a post where they’re supposed to support the principals of US society: read it and weep:

الثوره والبطيخ ‏@Mbaha2
@USEmbassyCairo you say all humans are equal but the truth is you hate Muslims and describe us as terrorists when u are the real terrorists

US Embassy Cairo US Embassy CairoVerified ‏@USEmbassyCairo
@mbaha2 No, that’s not true. We consistently stand up for Muslims around the world and talk abt how Islam is a wonderful religion

I think I just threw up in my mouth.
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September 13, 2012 2:27pm
Manolo

Why does Key’s National goverment continue with this scam (and farce)?
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/government-abandons-fiscal-responsibility-pledge-ets-changes-bd-128237
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September 13, 2012 2:35pm
bereal

Scott Chris @ 2.08

If that is the answer, why not pay more tax yourself (assuming that you pay tax at all)
with the provisor that the extra is donated to ….who ? in the cause of world peace.

Who ? you idiot. The Shia , the Shites, ?

In your mind which faction of Islam needs the most of your tax money ?

In your mind, just how much money do you calculate it would take to appease islam ?

Pathetic argument mate.
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September 13, 2012 2:38pm
Pete George

Not everything in the world is turning to crap, UNICEF reports that since 1990 deaths of children under five have dropped by 40%
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September 13, 2012 2:38pm
Manolo

Has two kids at her young age (17 years old), from different fathers, possibly. And she’s utterly talentless:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7664658/Talent-contestant-appears-in-court
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September 13, 2012 2:40pm
tom hunter

Just in case you’re still missing my point, Kea, I also noted this quote from an article the other day:

“I have always said that America is at war with al Qaeda and its affiliates,” Obama declared, “and we will never be at war with Islam.”

But that really isn’t up to him. What the left never seems to understand is that war doesn’t have to be mutual. No matter what you do or what defeatist foreign policy you adopt, the enemy still gets a vote. And the enemies of this country have voted with their bombs and bodies.
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September 13, 2012 2:41pm
Griff

ETS is a total waste of time all it does is makes us poor and makes the growing polluters richer so it leads to more co2 not less
Thats from KBs resident warmist if I don’t support an ETS who the hell does?
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September 13, 2012 2:42pm
grumpyoldhori

Griff no Muslim countries have nukes ? might I suggest a touch more reading history.
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September 13, 2012 2:43pm
Griff

No muslim countrys that are presently attacking the west have nukes….. yet…..some former ussr states do they are not busy sponsoring terrorism in the west
If those that are sponsoring terrorism get them they will not apply western morality to their use…… Bomb the fuckers first
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September 13, 2012 2:49pm
Weihana

Scott Chris (4,481) Says:
September 13th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

Weihana, I would suggest that the only practical way to moderate Islam is to administer the bourgeois panacea – enrich them, which can only come about through trade and engagement. Keeping them poor enables them to maintain their patriarchal institutions and nurtures the pan-Arab persecution complex. Isn’t that how enlightenment was achieved in the West?

No I don’t think that is how it was achieved in the West. The enlightenment came from within, not from an exterior culture telling people what to believe. I do not believe that Muslims are the way they are because of a lack of wealth, or a lack of information, and that if only we put the argument to them in the proper way that they’ll see the light and agree with us.

Their beliefs on the most fundamental level are simply not compatible with enlightenment ideals. Islam is the one true faith, it is the foundation of all authority, it is beyond question, and anyone who attacks it shall be put to death. You cannot argue with that, you cannot reason with that.
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September 13, 2012 2:59pm
Manolo

Thats from KBs resident warmist if I don’t support an ETS who the hell does?

John Key and Nick Smith, parents of this expensive scam quite damaging to the NZ economy.
Of course, it was different story when these two liars were opposition to socialist Labour’s original plan. Now this unfortunate pair are all for exacting more money from the populace.
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September 13, 2012 3:02pm
wat dabney

Come on Griff,

Mate, you made such a fool of yourself last time with you constant lies and evasiveness. Topped off, remember, by confidently citing papers which actually supported the sceptical view.

So let’s go back to those.

Remember you cited a paper which confirmed the Little Ice Age. This flatly contradicts the debunked and fraudulent hockeysticks you keep trying to sell. So please explain how they can both be true.

You also cited a paper showing flat or slightly cooling Antarctic temperatures. Again, this contradicts your laughable assertion of unprecedented Antarctic warming. Please explain this contradiction.

Remember, you cited these papers, so you explain them.

We don’t want your usual 1) Lies, 2) Special Pleading, 3) Appeals to authority, 4) Evasiveness and avoidence of addressing key issues.
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September 13, 2012 3:12pm
bereal

Scott Chris @ @2.08 KISS

Please enlighten us.

Define the , “pan Arabic persecution complex,” you talk of.
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September 13, 2012 3:16pm
tom hunter

Brutally funny video clip from Andrew Klavan – How to Behave During an Islamic Massacre:

Instead of blaming Muslims for their actions, try to treat them as sub-humans with no moral agency. If they had no choice but to go on a kill spree the only real fault lies with the man who provoked them.
…
We all must learn that confronting evil can lead to violence. With just a little intellectual dishonesty and some unprincipled sniveling we can put a end to Islamic slaughters peacefully.
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September 13, 2012 3:21pm
Manolo

Malkin calls a spade a spade: http://michellemalkin.com/2012/09/12/egyptian-faux-rage-deadly-american-dhimmitude-and-the-return-of-islamic-rage-boy/
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September 13, 2012 3:22pm
bhudson

So who elected Finlayson ?

The 1,058,636 people who voted for the National Party with him at #9 on the list.
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September 13, 2012 3:32pm
Manolo

bhudson, I surmise from your loyal partisan answer that you agree with the never-ending payments to Maori handed out by the uber-generous Finlayson?

Are you saying (and defending) that once elected your Minister is entitled to conduct National Party policy this way? If not, why not?
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September 13, 2012 3:44pm
Griff

wat fullofshit dabney
Until you put your wallet were your mouth is and pay some money or give a book token to a respected charity that I have oked. You are full of shit and as such I see no point in discussing any thing with some one that is so full of shit.

wat dabney (1,912) Says:
September 13th, 2012 at 9:40 am
And a book token to anyone who can spot any recent warming – any at all – in the official temperature charts:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/AllCompared%20GlobalMonthlyTempSince1979.gif

And Griff posted
http://www.climate4you.com/images/MSU%20UAH%20GlobalMonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage.gif

So pay and admit you were full of shit or get reminded you are full of shit every time you post your denial dribbles

Climate emails stolen and spun to make the scientist look bad.

Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault. Denial lobby demands another review-review finds no fault. Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault.Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault.Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault.Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault.Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault.Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault. Denial lobby demands review- review finds no fault

DOES THE DENIAL LOBBY ADMIT THAT THE SCIENTISTS WHERE NOT AT FAULT after nine reviews from the usa government the royal society and other respected bodies No that would not be denial and the fuckwits continue to publish that the climate emails are proof of perversion of science.

Including Wat I offer a book token if you prove me wrong but then will not front up because I am full of shit Dabney.
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September 13, 2012 3:45pm
cha

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/embassy-attacks.html
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September 13, 2012 3:54pm
wat dabney

Another attempt at bravado, Griff?

Because constant evasion and lies are so so convincing aren’t they. I’m quite sure no one here is cringing as you repeatedly humiliate yourself.

Mate, you made such a fool of yourself last time with you constant lies and evasiveness. Topped off, remember, by confidently citing papers which actually supported the sceptical view.

So let’s go back to those.

Remember you cited a paper which confirmed the Little Ice Age. This flatly contradicts the debunked and fraudulent hockeysticks you keep trying to sell. So please explain how they can both be true.

You also cited a paper showing flat or slightly cooling Antarctic temperatures. Again, this contradicts your laughable assertion of unprecedented Antarctic warming. Please explain this contradiction.

Remember, you cited these papers, so you explain them.

We don’t want your usual 1) Lies, 2) Special Pleading, 3) Appeals to authority, 4) Evasiveness and avoidence of addressing key issues.
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September 13, 2012 3:58pm
bhudson

Manolo,

I dispute your statement of ‘never ending payments.’ You might recall that the Minister led the govt bill to tidy up the foreshore and seabed, which returned property jurisdiction to the courts, where it belongs, while tightening the position with respect to claiming customary rights.

Hardly in keeping with dishing out ‘never ending payments.’

It is in everybody’s interests for legitimate grievances to be resolved. So, yes, it is appropriate for him to execute National Party policy.
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September 13, 2012 4:00pm
Manolo

The never-ending tag fits perfectly.
Have you seen this? http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=154110&fm=newsmain%2Cnrhl

What would the spendthrift Minister, once lawyer for Tainui or similar tribe, Mr Finlayson do?
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September 13, 2012 4:05pm
bhudson

Manolo,

From your link:

The Waikato-Tainui and Ngai Tahu iwi are poised to claim top-ups on their 1990s Treaty of Waitangi settlements because of a relativity clause that gets triggered when the so-called fiscal envelope is exceeded.

Chris Finlayson wasn’t the Minister for Treaty Negotiations in the 1990s.

Try harder.

[Incidentally, IIRC, the ‘top up’ provisions were included to prevent those large iwi who settled early being disadvantaged as a result of later settlements. Good commercial sense and perfectly understandable given the circumstances.]
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September 13, 2012 4:17pm
Fletch

Open microphone – two reporters caught planning attack on Romney –

The Right Scoop reports that unnamed mainstream media journalists were caught on a live mic coordinating hostile questions for Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney before his press conference today on the U.S. embassy attacks.

Their goal was to make sure that no question would address the substance of the crisis but instead put Romney on the defensive about made-up mistakes in his criticism of President Obama.

In the event, six out of the seven questions were almost exactly the same, all questioning Romney for his supposed mistake. (Romney handled the questions very well.)

LISTEN

Bastards…

So much for unbiased reporting.
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September 13, 2012 4:51pm
KiwiGreg

@ bhudson you are correct – those settlements were against the (then) “fiscal envelope”. Those tribes agreed with government that if settlements exceeded that they would get to be scaled up.
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September 13, 2012 4:59pm
krazykiwi

It is in everybody’s interests for legitimate grievances to be resolved

And money achieves this? Forgive me… but I don’t see evidence of that. Those little problems of inter-generational waste and inflation give grievance industry its perpetual motion.
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September 13, 2012 5:29pm
Griff

wat fullofshit dabney
“Little Ice Age. This flatly contradicts the debunked and fraudulent hockeysticks ”
Does the little ice age disprove the warming in the last fifty years if so how? we can and do have both in the temperature record
your fraudulent hockey stick claim is based on 17 data points from the Dendrochronology record in an obscure place in Siberia and the climate emails
After NINE reviews and no still fault we can ignore any reference to the e mails as proving anything but an orchestrated campaign of denial
As to the importance of the Siberian data meh warming with warming without millions of data points many different methods And still hockey stick

Now can you stop your avoidance of your indiscretion early today and pay up for being caught out in you bullshit
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September 13, 2012 5:33pm
bhudson

And money achieves this?

Well I guess giving back the actual land might work. No good at all if your house happens to be sitting on it of course.

Money to iwi is a far better alternative (and far cheaper – I, for one, wouldn’t be vacating my property without compensation)
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September 13, 2012 5:36pm
Inky_the_Red

It seems the government is planning stock charter schools in Christchurch by closing 20-30 state schools
http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/school-proposals.pdf
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September 13, 2012 5:46pm
krazykiwi

bhudson – so, setting aside the fact that Maori had no formal concept of ‘ownership’, but simply ‘use’ until dispossession occured, I take your respose to agree that money does not achieve settlement of so-called ligitimate grievances. So why do we keep paying it in the belief that it does?
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September 13, 2012 5:46pm
krazykiwi

Inky – that’s excellent news. Thanks for sharing.
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September 13, 2012 5:47pm
bhudson

kk,

The entire West was built on the notion that property was only held until someone with a bigger sword and army came along to take it. That behaviour didn’t end until after WWI, so, arguably, Maori were ahead of the West in that respect. (Under duress, perhaps, but nonetheless they stopped earlier.)
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September 13, 2012 5:52pm
liarbors a joke

finlayson always comes across as being an arrogant snotty little shit…ffs he’s only a list mp..who the fcuk does he think he is ?
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September 13, 2012 5:57pm
Reid

Interesting short article on Obama the unknown and how all the opposition candidates mysteriously melted in his rise from nowhere to POTUS.

http://tomatobubble.com/id125.html
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September 13, 2012 6:09pm
Manolo

Well done, bhudson.

After your staunch defense of all things National (never wrong, never mistaken, always spotless), I see you rewarded with the sinecure of Minister of Propaganda after the next election.

Beware, DPF could be a contender for the job,
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September 13, 2012 6:10pm
bhudson

Manolo,

I am far too broad of beam to be a Goebbels clone. And, mindful of the song, I don’t meet the testicular requisite either.
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September 13, 2012 6:14pm
Reid

New program for American educators explains how wacist peanut butter really truly actually is:

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/principal-sees-racism-in-peanut-butter.html

The Gweens will be green with envy. They’ll get their wesearch team wight on it.
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September 13, 2012 6:15pm
joana

More arrests for genital mutilation in Aussie, this time in NSW. When will there be arrests here?
Yesterday’s anti terror raids in Melbourne took the usual pathetic route..Imans were warned before hand..Who else gets this kind of special treatment? These people are potential mass murderers and should be treated as such. Conveniently , the main mad mullah involved is out of the country. Meanwhile in Rotorua a huge Daw’a centre is being built .Why? Why are the dangers being ignored?
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September 13, 2012 6:17pm
Manolo

But the German accent and blonde life-companion are giveaway signs.
Remember, you heard the prediction here first. 😀
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September 13, 2012 6:18pm
bhudson

Manolo,

I am sure my blonde life-companion would be very pleased to hear you refer to her as blonde, but I’m not quite sure where the German accent reference comes from mein herr.
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September 13, 2012 6:24pm
Manolo

Dankeschön.
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September 13, 2012 6:30pm
Manolo

And to think there are people, read fools, who promote the policies of appeasement towards these violent savages:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/09/12/filmmaker-sam-bacile-in-hiding-after-anti-muslim-film-sparks-violence-in-which/
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September 13, 2012 6:35pm
Reid

On Bacile: who is he? http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/anti-islam-film/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

And a very good point on hypocrisy: http://revisionistreview.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/self-righteous-blowhards-mock-muslim.html
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September 13, 2012 6:48pm
Viking2

Two women friends were having a Girls’ Night Out, and had been decidedly over-enthusiastic on the cocktails. Incredibly drunk and walking home they suddenly realized they both needed to pee. They were very near a graveyard and one of them suggested they do their business behind a headstone.

The first woman had nothing to wipe with so she took off her panties, used them and threw them away. Her friend however was wearing an expensive underwear set which she didn’t want to ruin, but was lucky enough to salvage a large ribbon from a wreath that was on a grave and proceeded to wipe herself with it. After finishing, they made their way home.

The next day the first woman’s husband phoned the other husband and said, “These damn Girls’ Nights Out have got to stop. My wife came home last night without her panties.”

“That’s nothing,” said the other. “Mine came back with a card stuck between the cheeks of her butt that said, ‘From all of us at Fire Station No. 7. Well never forget you!'”
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September 13, 2012 6:50pm
nasska

Ethical Question:

You have a male friend that has no sense of smell.
He also watches an inordinate amount of porn.
Whilst at his house one day you notice a tub of Vaseline next to his computer.

Is it morally wrong to swap the contents of his Vaseline tub for Vicks Vapour Rub when you get the chance?
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September 13, 2012 8:00pm
RF

I see the girls over on the other side are becoming very excited about the Police report on John Banks. They are lifting their skirts and running around in all directions squawking at each other. Pleased to see that they are concentrating on being a solid opposition. “Tossers”. I am ashamed to think I once supported them.
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September 13, 2012 8:01pm
Viking2

The intriguing question is why so many people with a mixture of European and Maori blood choose to identify exclusively with their Maori forebears. No matter how much they might wish to, there’s no escaping the fact that their European ancestors were complicit in the injustices suffered by their Maori ancestors for which they now demand redress.

http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/intoxicated-by-cocktail-of-power-and.html
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September 13, 2012 8:04pm
Griff

nasska
Is it morally wrong to swap the contents of his Vaseline tub for Vicks Vapour Rub when you get the chance?
Yes
Tiger balm has a more satisfactory effect
😈
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September 13, 2012 8:27pm
Pete George

V2 – But they have learnt to combine forces and lobby with whatever leverage is available. Effective politics. Pretty good, huh?

Most of the rest seem too intent on their own agendas that they fail to consider what might actually get results.
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September 13, 2012 8:27pm
nasska

Griff

At boarding school, as a third former, one of life’s challenges was keeping ones balls free from toothpaste.
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September 13, 2012 8:30pm
Johnboy

Ah PG so we are looking forward then too brave new, result getting policies, from Pete and Dunne then in 2014? 🙂
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September 13, 2012 8:33pm
Johnboy

At my boarding school nasska one of life’s challenges was keeping ones balls free from Trev! 🙂
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September 13, 2012 8:34pm
nasska

Shit….and we used to think we were hard done by with the Colgate! 🙂
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September 13, 2012 8:36pm
Pete George

JB – I’d rather look at what brave new ways can be found to get results much sooner than that. I’m not prepared to just sit back and type for the next couple of years while water rights are dictated by non-elected non-politicians representing a minority.
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September 13, 2012 8:36pm
Johnboy

Well as Mrs Marsh used to say nasska. “Eit really gets ein! ” 🙂
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September 13, 2012 8:38pm
Johnboy

Tell us your policy then PG!

For Gods sake we need something better than the wee opera fairy handing over the last of our hard earned cash to the the bloody stoneagers!! 🙂
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September 13, 2012 8:42pm
Pete George

It’s not policy that’s required, it’s power, and you can only get that by gathering enough people committed to a common purpose.

Maori at the hui claimed Government is trying to split them, as they join together and tell Key to put his flagship policy on hold. And they will probably be able to dictate that. The (unlected) tail has wrapped around the dog’s balls and is tightening it’s grip.

While the rest of us yap away individually and ineffectively.
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September 13, 2012 8:50pm
Johnboy

But…but…..but we all voted JohnKey in cause he was a fair man who believed in democracy PG!

He would never let a minority bunch of disaffected moaners reshape his vision of a bright new future for all us little Kiwis would he? 🙂
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September 13, 2012 8:54pm
liarbors a joke

we’ve all been well and truly shagged JB…
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September 13, 2012 8:56pm
Pete George

He mightn’t have much choice unless he gets a strong show of support for equal rights to natural resources. And I have no idea where that’s going to come form, thin air has already been claimed so it won’t be able to come from there.
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September 13, 2012 8:58pm
Johnboy

But you are evading the question PG. What will you two Petes offer us that may sway our vote away from those who have, or are currently shafting us?

What alternative do you offer for the future?

Bear in mind there could be 61 seats here in your reply! 🙂
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September 13, 2012 9:01pm
Pete George

The latest Roy Morgan poll has a few minor changes but nothing dramatic:

National 46.5 (up 2)
Labour 31 (down 1)
Greens 12.5 (down 2)
NZ First 4.5 (down 0.5)

For those getting excited about the Conservative surge, 1% (up 0.5) which means their trend since polled:
3, 1.5, 0.5, 1.0
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September 13, 2012 9:02pm
Pete George

I don’t know what the other Pete will offer that’s much different. The party is well endowed with reasonable policy but has a scarcity of talent, which is a shame. Polirtics is really people driven, looking reasonable on paper doesn’t achieve much.

I think I have to do more outside the party, it may be the only way to get radical enough. There’s some major issues on the go that affect the core of our way of doing democracy – the Maori lobby, use of referenda, parliamentary ethics etc.
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September 13, 2012 9:08pm
Johnboy

Ah… so you won’t be scrapping the treaty and declaring an open season on Taniwha’s then PG. Shame that. Guess it’s 61 minus 60 seats again next time. 🙂
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September 13, 2012 9:12pm
Pete George

Those things will only happen if there’s a very strong, united voice for the alternate view, way beyong UF’s capability.

Labour are in a very weak position having taken a side thinking it’s about their anti asset sales campaign, but they’ve been used.

Greens are so pro ToW they won’t be able to stand up.

WP seems to be a spent force.

It will take some serious activism from National outside Cabinet.

Or we just roll over and hope our tummy is tickled occasionally.
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September 13, 2012 9:20pm
Griff

You are seeing a swing towards stopping the rot
some of us on here have always had enough of the treaty gravy train
Its not us that are making the anti treaty posts at present far more commenter’s are now upset The water crap has finally begun impact on
the conscience of a majority of posters.will this will linger to the next election is another question? bit if I was a moari politician I would be back peddling around now.Interesting to see the sopport for the moari party rising and that for the greens and mana falling
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September 13, 2012 9:22pm
Johnboy

Jeeze Pete. Enough of the weasel words. JK has tossed in the towel. Cometh the moment cometh the man. This is the time for a “Mister Reasonable but Deep Down Hard” to take this poor little Nation back from the brink it is standing on!

Step up to the mark my friend we are all (just) behind you!! 🙂
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September 13, 2012 9:27pm
Griff

as long as that not 61/2 inches to close JB
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September 13, 2012 9:32pm
Pete George

Just tweeted:

Lew ‏@LewStoddart
So many Pākehā still think Te Tiriti will just fade away once the historical claims are settled, & we can get on with doing things their way

Lew ‏@LewStoddart
Someone’s going to have to break it to them. Te Tiriti’s not going away. Our ancestors signed it, we’re bound by it; learn to live with it.

If Maori keep using the ToW to leverage what they can then good on them. It’s not their problem if the rest of us stand by and leave it to them to call all the shots.

I’m not against Maori for doing that. I’m against not competing with it. But the only way of getting a strong alternative voice is to put personal agendas aside and work together.
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September 13, 2012 9:34pm
Johnboy

I am never more than half interested in any of my hobbies Griff so I always stand back at least a foot.
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September 13, 2012 9:36pm
Pete George

LATEST: A hui on water has called on the Government to halt asset sales till it negotiates a deal recognising Maori rights and interests with a new pan-Maori body.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7665035/Maori-to-seek-unity-on-water

And there’s no alternative body, only some short and curlies that they’ve got us by.
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September 13, 2012 9:36pm
Johnboy

The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact.

God I love how treaties mean forever! 🙂
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September 13, 2012 9:40pm
Weihana

bhudson (2,390) Says:
September 13th, 2012 at 5:52 pm
kk,

The entire West was built on the notion that property was only held until someone with a bigger sword and army came along to take it. That behaviour didn’t end until after WWI…

cum hoc ergo propter hoc
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September 13, 2012 9:44pm
Johnboy

Nothing like a proper treaty to sort out all these little differences between two peoples forever. 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO725Hbzfls
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September 13, 2012 9:45pm
Griff

We need a schism in national or a party to stand on the issue
Act is bankrupt following the election of banks and due to my interest in global warming I know its is even more rotten then that
fuck PG thats thrown a lot of shit into the fan Another sea bed and fore shore for sure
Not the time for doves time for a hawke
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September 13, 2012 9:49pm
Nostalgia-NZ

PG 9.34

Those tweets sum it up Pete George.
Turning against it is self-defeating. Those first writers of the prevailing law TOW set about creating a lot of problems perhaps because of unforeseen circumstances, who really knows – but a lot that followed were deliberate underhandedness.

I think Finlayson is doing a good job, but only on the basis that the Government appear only to be responding – rather than gaining and holding the initative. Settlements now which don’t traverse the full vision and words of the TOW will be revisted again.

As successive Governments ‘settle’ claims and applaud themselves for the effort one thing becomes transparent – the settlements appear not to be settling ‘across the board’ all issues. The self-congratulations look like they avoid what is enivitably around the next corner. Time to smarten up.
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September 13, 2012 9:53pm
Griff

I was going to use chamberlain instead of dove JB apt some day there has to be a line in the sand even if its writ in blood
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September 13, 2012 9:57pm
Manolo

The inevitable comparisons are drawn: http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-echoes-carter-with-shoot-first-criticism-of-romney/article/2507863#.UFIZKlHhJ8G
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September 14, 2012 5:41am
Manolo

The vile Islam at it (again) http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-sheikh-in-court-over-female-genital-mutilation-20120913-25ubq.html#ixzz26KbiOb1O
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September 14, 2012 5:55am
Kea

I have just had a look at the movie – Innocence Of Muslims- that is causing all the fuss. For sure it is a wind-up, but there is far worse directed at Christians & Jews (on Youtube). As usual, the Muslims need to lighten up, allot.
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September 14, 2012 7:06am

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