General Debate 27 August 2012

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peterwn

See:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7538726/School-to-pay-10-000-for-hurt

and:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7552293/Council-ready-to-trespass-the-Beast

A HRC Kangar… oops complaints committee awarded $10k against a Westland school for ‘trespassing’ an alleged vagrant off school property.

Looks as if Whanganui District Council and various Whanganui entities risk similar treatment at the hands of HRC with respect to Stewart Wilson soon to be released under special conditions.
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August 27, 2012 8:07am
Don the Kiwi

Gay marriage , anyone?
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August 27, 2012 8:07am
Lance

@Don The Kiwi
I was going to mention ‘Gay marriage’ and ‘barbed wire enema’ in the same sentence but decided it was WAY too Freudian.
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August 27, 2012 8:14am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

We have been secretly negotiating a new agreement called the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) with the United States Australia, Brunei, Chile, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Malaysia and Vietnam and are nearing completing the final details of this agreement. We have had 600 of our best corporate lobbyists providing input and have successfully excluded Congress, our own corporate media, and the general public from the negotiations. Once implemented, this agreement will hard code corporate dominance over sovereign governments into international law that will supercede any federal, state, or local laws of any member country. This agreement will grant new corporate privileges and rights, while limiting governments and protective regulations. This agreement will far exceed anything we have been able to achieve with NAFTA, CAFTA, or any other free trade agreement.
– http://www.opednews.com/articles/If-you-Like-NAFTA-You-ll-by-Rudy-Avizius-120824-750.html

OpEdNews may be a questionable source, but the real question is When will we know anything about the TPP?
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August 27, 2012 8:44am
Keeping Stock

Why was the Herald on Sunday running the Taleban’s propaganda yesterday?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/we-cant-help-but-wonder_27.html
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August 27, 2012 8:49am
Manolo

The future is bright….not! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10827772
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August 27, 2012 8:50am
Lance

@Keeping Stock

Yes, one side in a war says will will do nasty things to the other side. And like that’s supposed to scare the other side off the field…. fuck what drongos for reporting such shit.
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August 27, 2012 8:55am
mandk

Marriage? It’s sooooo heterosexual.
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August 27, 2012 8:59am
Manolo

What this Stone Ager “chief” means is that some koha would be good: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10829714
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August 27, 2012 9:06am
Monique Watson

‘zat you on Morning report PG? Live or canned? Good to see UnitedFuture is putting a figure on the amount of dosh a small party needs to get a working number of M.P’s into parliament. U don’t ask, you don’t get. ‘Did’u get any media there?
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August 27, 2012 9:13am
iMP

In reply to DPF’s weekend post and other posts: here is a summary of the science on sex and the homosexual-bio-choice stuff. Enjoy.

“The Science of Sex: Is Homosexuality Biological?: The Facts.”

http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/the-science-of-sex-is-homosexuality-biological-the-facts/
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August 27, 2012 9:29am
Weihana

peterwn (1,769) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 8:07 am

See:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7538726/School-to-pay-10-000-for-hurt

and:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7552293/Council-ready-to-trespass-the-Beast

A HRC Kangar… oops complaints committee awarded $10k against a Westland school for ‘trespassing’ an alleged vagrant off school property.

That’s one way of putting it. Another way of putting it would be that Fehling had permission to live on the land, that this was his home, and that the school’s actions constituted an interference with his privacy.

Looks as if Whanganui District Council and various Whanganui entities risk similar treatment at the hands of HRC with respect to Stewart Wilson soon to be released under special conditions.

I’m not sure I see the parallel. The tribunal found there was no evidence of Fehling constituting a threat and nothing has been reported to demonstrate a threat. The “beast” is a convict with a history of serious sexual offences.

It’s not clear how trespassing Wilson would be an interference with his privacy or unlawful discrimination.

Perhaps there would be a remedy for Wilson under the NZ Bill of Rights Act?
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August 27, 2012 9:44am
Keeping Stock

How good is Lydia Ko, and how much better might she become? She’s just won her second professional tournament of 2012 by shooting the joint low round of the day at the Canadian Open. She’s now the youngest ever winner of a professional tournament (men or women) from her win in Oz earlier in the year, the youngest ever winner on the USLPGA Tour, and the first New Zealander to win on that tour; at just 15 years and four months.

Absolutely amazing…
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August 27, 2012 9:49am
b1gdaddynz

I don’t think it is appropriate for a single man to live on a school grounds so would question him being allowed to stay there from the start; but the way he was treated doesn’t sound right either…
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August 27, 2012 9:57am
flipper

Keeping…
Ko ???? Now that is great.
It would be better if DPF et al devoted time space to the North Shore teen Lydia Ko rather than BMWs.
The only thing good about DPF’s BMW coverage was the weather it depicted.
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August 27, 2012 9:59am
flipper

Can someone please explain the intricacies of the tresspass law?

Does Wilson have to commit some illegal act in/on the propety/area?
Can a person be tresspassed by a town/city/region?

The beast is an arsehole.
But think about what has/is being proposed. It is not the start of a slippery slope. We may be already half way down.
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August 27, 2012 10:04am
Brian Smaller

Wrong.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/7552026/Huffing-butane-killing-our-kids

It is killing kids who are dumb enough to do it. Mine are fine.
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August 27, 2012 10:07am
Weihana

Keeping Stock (8,025) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 8:49 am

Why was the Herald on Sunday running the Taleban’s propaganda yesterday?

Because Taleban propaganda is news. Would you prefer the press only report that which accords with government policy? They provided two sides to the story by also reporting Jack Durrer who believes New Zealand should stay the course.

The public are not children for whom the government is responsible for ensuring we do not get “unsettled”. If the public does become unsettled by what the Taleban is saying then in my view that probably reflects on the merits of the campaign itself and that is not the fault of the news media, that is the fault of those who put soldiers in harms way for a campaign where the public is too timid to stomach casualties.

The only thing unsettling to me is how war is used to advocate for a cessation in critical analysis and open discussion. War inherently motivates the most basic tribalism that I think we owe it to ourselves to be especially vigilant in ensuring that open dialogue is preserved and not diminished for fear of giving credence to foreign propaganda.
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August 27, 2012 10:08am
Viking2

Great photo of Somes Island during a Lightning storm. Taken from Korokoro.

http://screencast.com/t/U2rYwVp8pix
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August 27, 2012 10:17am
iMP

b1gdaddynz (49) Says: August 27th, 2012 at 9:57 am
I don’t think it is appropriate for a single man to live on a school grounds…

Because he’s single or because he’s a man? or worse, single AND a man. Ah the feminist revolution…made us all rapists.
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August 27, 2012 10:24am
trout

But will Lydia Ko get Sportsman (or woman) of the Year recognition? She certainly deserves it. Top amateur in the world and youngest pro tournament winner.
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August 27, 2012 10:24am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

Whanganui councillors are planning to ban serial sex offender Stewart Murray Wilson from all council-controlled property in the city, similar to how the city prohibits gang patches.
It follows an initiative by councillor Ray Stevens, who has prepared “ready to go” trespass notices for local business owners who wish to ban the man dubbed the Beast of Blenheim from their property.

It will interesting to see how this works – that a city council can ban someone from, for example, their public library, if they have served time in prison, especially in this case, elsewhere.

The whole point is, it seems, that Wilson has not yet committed any offence in the Whanganui area.
Their only legal position, I would have thought, is that Wilson has not yet completed his full sentence and therefore it is a supervised prison visit to the library.
But when the sentence is served, 2017 sometime, will he not be free?
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August 27, 2012 10:26am
Lance

@iMP
One of the funniest thing I ever saw was when I was a design engineer at the Uni of Auck Psych dept.
Not all Psychologists are touchy feelly ‘Clinical Psych’ types.
There was a forum one day where some Feminazi was speaking shit about all men being rapists, the mocking by the real men was so bloody funny, nothing like one academic calling another sick and twisted to gasps from the PC brigade present.

LOL

BTW The other openly mocked topic was repressed memories, the dept had a world leading expert on memories who was calling bullshit on the clowns promoting repressed memories of rape.
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August 27, 2012 10:33am
Keeping Stock

Quite so Trout; Ko has two professional wins this year, plus the US Amateur title. She is the best female amateur in the world by some distance. But will that be enough to beat off the likes of Val Adams and Lisa Carrington who have Olympic gold medals?

Still; there’s always the 2016 Olympics in Brazil for Ko to win; now that is something to look forward to!
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August 27, 2012 10:39am
Weihana

iMP (707) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 9:29 am

For those who can’t be bothered reading to the end (Gen. Y.) essentially it concludes there is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to support homosexuality is biological.

The lack of a definitive answer does not equate with the conclusion that there is “no scientific evidence”.

A number of small human experiments show differences between some gay and straight people physiologically (actual body differences) but no more than between different individuals

Individuals are not all biologically identical so it would appear illogical to assert that there is no biological difference because the differences are not more than other differences amongst a group which is biologically diverse.

or between men and women of different race or individuals of the same race.

How many white men are in the 100m final? How many obese gymnasts are there? What is the ratio of men to women in the physics department of an average university? Humans are biologically diverse. Homosexuality appears to be just another variation.

The scientists themselves are completely divided.

Not really. It’s not so much as saying there is no debate, as saying that the evidence, whilst not absolutely conclusive, points in the direction of a complex array of biological factors. It is likely no one theory will serve as the ultimate explanation.
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August 27, 2012 10:40am
Akaroa

DPF did you have to clog up your otherwise excellent blog with all that stuff about BMW, for goodness sake?

(I won’t be snarkey and ask how much they paid you, after all you got a day playing with their car, eh? Plus hotel, plus meals, plus airfare?)

If you want a readership feedback, I can tell you that as soon as this particular correspondent realised what it was, (Just BMW and Self-puffery), I immediately scrolled down to the other more relevant subjects on the blog site.

On reflection, the reaction I experienced on seeing what it was was the same as I experience when sighting the headings and by-line of that verbose lady who occasionally stalks these pages. You know who I mean!!
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August 27, 2012 10:56am
Weihana

flipper (908) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 10:04 am

Can someone please explain the intricacies of the tresspass law?

Does Wilson have to commit some illegal act in/on the propety/area?
Can a person be tresspassed by a town/city/region?

The beast is an arsehole.
But think about what has/is being proposed. It is not the start of a slippery slope. We may be already half way down.

Trespass is interference with someone’s real property rights. You do not have to have committed a prior criminal act for me to require you to stay off my lawn, for instance. Other than that the only “intricacy” I know of is that trespass may be justified by necessity.
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August 27, 2012 10:58am
kowtow

More Human rights stuff here. My money is the HRC will back the Dowse museum. Isn’t multiculturalism great?
So while “Te cPrapa” was happy to insult Caholics with it’s Virgin in Condom this place is happy to kowtow to Muslim sensibilities.

I was at a talk in Dunedin a few years ago at the Art Gallery on icons. The learned intellectuals showed one depiction of He Who Must not be depicted ,even though it was an old Muslim produced painting,but then he said he had another one which he wouldn’t display out of respect for their sensibilities. One OK another not?

Remind me that I don’t live in Saudi Arabia and that our “intelligentsia” aren’t a bunch of craven cowards and dhimmis.

All cultures are equal but some cultures are more equal than others.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/7551626/Complaint-over-women-only-exhibit
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August 27, 2012 11:18am
stinkypete

while national radio broadcast taliban propaganda this morning

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/7554001/Taleban-warn-more-Kiwis-will-die

don;t get mad, instead watch this moving footage of the haka performed at burnham for the fallen soldiers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI6TRTBZUMM
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August 27, 2012 11:19am
Brian Smaller

@kowtow – Muslim sensibilities are off limit because they are known to murder people who say things that offend said sensibilities, to riot and let’s not forget – blow shit up.
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August 27, 2012 11:38am
Nookin

Here is one Green Party member who will be reducing the size of her carbon footprint over then next 6 months.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/7554428/Robyn-Malcolm-guilty-of-drink-driving
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August 27, 2012 11:40am
KevinH

@Weihana
The Taleban will be congradulating themselves for getting media attention, albeit in little New Zealand. Any criticism of the Taleban in New Zealand media will be transmitted around the world as propaganda therefore New Zealand media have to be alert to being used. Second to that, the more attention New Zealand media gives to the Taleban, the more likely they will target the PRT in Bamiyan, so once again discretion is the order of the day.
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August 27, 2012 11:48am
b1gdaddynz

@imp – Where did I say that a single man had to be a rapist? But yet you drew that conclusion and maybe just maybe others in the community would have drawn similar conclusions and targeted this man unfairly; which is why I stated that I felt it was inappropriate.
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August 27, 2012 12:03pm
peterwn

Weihana and Flipper – The legality of Fehling’s occupancy was not clear from news reports (eg if the school leased or licenced the land to someone for grazing, growing spuds, etc, is that person entitled to let someone live there) and it appears he was using school facilities which was not leased. If he did not agree with the trespass notice his remedy was with the courts. By going to HRC he effectively mounted a ‘collateral attack’ on the trespass notice funded by the taxpayer. In any case $10k damages for ‘hurt feelings’ etc was way over the top – if you sock someone in the chops, the judge is unlikely to award the victim more than a few hundred. Wonder how Fehling supports himself – WINZ cancelled his benefit years ago (it would be reinstated if he moved to an area with better employment prospects) – does he grow things, or beg, etc, etc.

In the old days Fehling would probably been pilloried and ordered out of town for this and earlier trespasses (eg living illegally in a local church).

The connection with Whanganui. The guy would have served his prison time and therefore arguably has a right not to be discriminated against on that basis – he will be a resident and indirectly pay rates via his rent. Therefore arguably what right does the Council have to ‘trespass’ him from the public areas of the council office, the library, the Sergeant Gallery, etc. Similarly what right would supermarkets etc have to collude to ‘trespass’ him such that he cannot purchase essentials. Any HRC response presumably have to weigh up the complainant’s human rights with the human rights of those in the community – I would not hold my breath – the courts and HRC’s attitudes seem to be that an individual’s rights take precedence over those who have to ‘suffer’ the exercise of human rights.

In the old days Stewart Wilson would have been committed to the likes of Seacliff. While he is not ‘clinically insane’ he seems to be dysfunctional in the mind to the extent that he should be treated as a ‘committed’ mental patient. It seems to me that legislation is needed to cover these few but very sad cases where a person cannot ever be let loose in the community. He would also probably be better detained in a forensic mental health unit than a Corrections facility.
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August 27, 2012 12:06pm
bereal

Just in case you missed it, here is a cool site to keep enquiring minds busy for yonks.
Click on the doco of your choice and off you go.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online/
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August 27, 2012 12:36pm
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

The Government is considering advice on “shares plus” which could see Maori getting a say over the running of water assets, Maori Party co-leader Pita Sharples says.

How will race based shares count against the 51% which Government has always mentioned [Election promise] to appease voters that Assets are being partially sold not completely sold. How can race based Shares Plus effect decisions in the interests of Maori over Government majority holdings?
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August 27, 2012 1:08pm
Weihana

peterwn (1,771) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

Weihana and Flipper – The legality of Fehling’s occupancy was not clear from news reports (eg if the school leased or licenced the land to someone for grazing, growing spuds, etc, is that person entitled to let someone live there)

Unfortunately I can only find decisions of the tribunal as late as May of this year so presumably the decision won’t be online for some time by which time no one will care. 🙂

and it appears he was using school facilities which was not leased. If he did not agree with the trespass notice his remedy was with the courts.

I note the tribunals interim decision wherein it stated:

“[9] The Commissioner has investigated the School’s refusal to give the plaintiff the names of three individuals who made complaints about him to the School. The Tribunal has power to consider those matters. The Tribunal will also have jurisdiction to consider what the consequences for the plaintiff have been, and what remedy should be awarded, should it be satisfied that the School’s refusal to disclose the names of the three people concerned gave rise to an interference with his privacy.

[10] That is, however, the limit of the Tribunal’s power to deal with the plaintiff’s matters. In all other respects the plaintiff’s claims are dismissed.”

http://www.nzlii.org/cgi-bin/sinodisp/nz/cases/NZHRRT/2011/14.html?query=Fehling

It would appear the tribunal is aware of the limits of its jurisdiction.

By going to HRC he effectively mounted a ‘collateral attack’ on the trespass notice funded by the taxpayer. In any case $10k damages for ‘hurt feelings’ etc was way over the top – if you sock someone in the chops, the judge is unlikely to award the victim more than a few hundred.

It is worth noting that “hurt feelings” are a statutorily defined basis for damages to be awarded under the privacy act.

88 Damages

(1) In any proceedings under section 82 or section 83, the Tribunal may award damages against the defendant for an interference with the privacy of an individual in respect of any 1 or more of the following:

(a) pecuniary loss suffered as a result of, and expenses reasonably incurred by the aggrieved individual for the purpose of, the transaction or activity out of which the interference arose:

(b) loss of any benefit, whether or not of a monetary kind, which the aggrieved individual might reasonably have been expected to obtain but for the interference:

(c) humiliation, loss of dignity, and injury to the feelings of the aggrieved individual.

Perhaps 10k is over the top. Personally I would prefer a sock to the chops than to be the subject of community hysteria orchestrated by a school that is portraying you as a sexual predator. That may not be a legal opinion, but it is my subjective opinion that such a person is more aggrieved than the commonly assaulted.

Wonder how Fehling supports himself – WINZ cancelled his benefit years ago (it would be reinstated if he moved to an area with better employment prospects) – does he grow things, or beg, etc, etc.

Is it relevant? Presumably the school can uphold its property rights without resorting to interfering with the man’s privacy (assuming it has been interfered with).

In the old days Fehling would probably been pilloried and ordered out of town for this and earlier trespasses (eg living illegally in a local church).

Ahh the old days… or the “good” old days as it’s otherwise known. Lot’s of things you could do once upon a time which you can’t do now.

The connection with Whanganui. The guy would have served his prison time and therefore arguably has a right not to be discriminated against on that basis

I don’t seem to see previous criminal offences as a prohibited ground of discrimination. On that basis no employer could request a police clearance.

Therefore arguably what right does the Council have to ‘trespass’ him from the public areas of the council office, the library, the Sergeant Gallery, etc. Similarly what right would supermarkets etc have to collude to ‘trespass’ him such that he cannot purchase essentials. Any HRC response presumably have to weigh up the complainant’s human rights with the human rights of those in the community – I would not hold my breath – the courts and HRC’s attitudes seem to be that an individual’s rights take precedence over those who have to ‘suffer’ the exercise of human rights.

The failure is with the original sentencing limitations in my view. The Human Rights Act, the Privacy Act seem reasonable rules by which we can live by. The Human Rights Review Tribunal also appears a competent authority to enforce those rules. No one is suffering the human rights of Wilson as such, they are suffering the threat he poses and which cannot be adequately dealt with due to the inadequacy of his original sentence.

In any case, surely Wilson would seek to apply the NZ bill of rights as a cause of action against the council. In my view banning an individual from all council controlled land would be an unreasonable restriction of the freedom of movement and a basic restriction on liberty. Arguably individual business owners have more of a right to trespass whom they like from their property, although even the trespass act has exceptions in case of necessity so perhaps Wilson, if hungry enough, could not be trespassed from the supermarket.

Difficult situation it appears from a legal standpoint. The council and the public reactions are all quite understandable, but if they did conspire to keep him effectively locked in his own house then maybe that would give him cause to loosen his bail conditions to travel elsewhere in the country which may increase the threat he poses. Interesting to see what happens.
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August 27, 2012 1:36pm
peterwn

Weihana – So the school was ‘fined’ $10,000 for refusing to name the original alleged complainants. Arguably the school would have rather copped the $10,000 than name them.

I characterise this as the HRC riding roughshod over the human rights and privacy of the complainants. IMO the identity of the original complainants was entirely irrevelant to the issue of the trespass notice as long as the BOT and / or principal properly satisfied themselves that a trespass notice should be issued.

From the whole background of what has happened in Hari Hari involving that guy, it seems that the complainants would have been extremely concerned for their safety and property if they were named. Even more so in a small remote community where as far as I can see has no resident police officers. So it seems that HRC could not care less about the human rights of ordinary people going about their day to day business.

This in my view is just more shonky decision making from the HRC and its complaints committees. John Key and Judith Collins would be IMO be on to a winner if they put the boot into these outfits. The good people of Hari Hari have rights too.
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August 27, 2012 2:46pm
Sonny Blount

b1gdaddynz (50) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 9:57 am
I don’t think it is appropriate for a single man to live on a school grounds so would question him being allowed to stay there from the start;

What an utterly disgusting thing to say
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August 27, 2012 2:49pm
kowtow

How’s that so called Arab Spring going?

When a nutty US pastor threatens to burn a book, the world’s media go into overdrive (can’t do that sorta thing,might upset the Fuzzy Wuzzies)

Demolish a mosque in Libya? Yawn.

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/africa/2012/08/201282665348545366.html
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August 27, 2012 2:51pm
Longknives

Is horrible scowling DRUNK DRIVER Robyn Malcolm going to continue to pontificate to us lowly peasants and tell us how we should all live our lives??
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August 27, 2012 3:08pm
chiz

iMP:In reply to DPF’s weekend post and other posts: here is a summary of the science on sex and the homosexual-bio-choice stuff. Enjoy.

“The Science of Sex: Is Homosexuality Biological?: The Facts.”

The science is quite clear that there is a biological component to sexual orientation. However almost none of the evidence is mentioned in the article that you link to. It is even includes basic howlers such as claiming that the 1957 study was by Karen Hooker when it was actually by Evelyn Hooker.
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August 27, 2012 4:23pm
Monique Watson

I now totally despair about the level of journalism in NZ today. I know this came up on GD yesterday but how the hell does Danya Levy’s rubbish get printed. After feeling morally obliged to spaeak on behalf of NZ’s “rich pricks”, I came up with this:

http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/08/average-wages-rise-wanted-journalists.html
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August 27, 2012 4:38pm
freemark

A couple of questions for enlightened fellow Kiwibloggers:
1) I am 47 and have never been called for Jury Duty.. is this unusual?
2) Returning from a few days overseas last week I was interested to see the request on the entry card for email address, cellphone number. When did this happen, and is there any reason apart from surveillance?
3) For whatever reasons I was diverted to the “interview” queue, and a lengthy (30mins) & relatively intrusive Q&A session ensued. At the conclusion the Customs Officer (all of about 25yrs old, but at least a Kiwi) made the sensible call that I, or my baggage, did not warrant further scrutiny. He did however seem to be typing into a terminal a lot of information. How would I go about accessing what they enter or hold on me?

BTW I thoroughly recommend Yanhee General Hospital in Bangkok for any minor surgery, upper & lower Blepharoplasty for $NZ 1500 as opposed to about $12k here.

Cheers
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August 27, 2012 4:50pm
Sofia

I hereby sentence you to five years in Whanganui prison, and after one year, should you not exhibit remorse and good behaviour, to be released into the grounds of Whanganui prison in solitary confinement and exposed to vigilante attack for the remainder of your sentence.
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August 27, 2012 5:01pm
Weihana

peterwn (1,772) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 2:46 pm

Weihana – So the school was ‘fined’ $10,000 for refusing to name the original alleged complainants. Arguably the school would have rather copped the $10,000 than name them.

I characterise this as the HRC riding roughshod over the human rights and privacy of the complainants. IMO the identity of the original complainants was entirely irrevelant to the issue of the trespass notice as long as the BOT and / or principal properly satisfied themselves that a trespass notice should be issued.

Without having read the full decision I’m not sure. But the central issue appears to be the alleged interference of privacy. The school presumably had collected information about Fehling. That person is generally entitled to information that is collected about them and it would appear that the identities of the complainants fall under the ambit of the Privacy Act. This information, when requested, was evidently not supplied in contravention of the man’s privacy.

From the whole background of what has happened in Hari Hari involving that guy, it seems that the complainants would have been extremely concerned for their safety and property if they were named. Even more so in a small remote community where as far as I can see has no resident police officers. So it seems that HRC could not care less about the human rights of ordinary people going about their day to day business.

On what basis do you allege that they have a reasonable cause to be concerned for their safety? Aside from this man being a bit different, what evidence is there of a threat? Do we automatically assume a threat because someone chooses to live an alternative lifestyle?

This in my view is just more shonky decision making from the HRC and its complaints committees. John Key and Judith Collins would be IMO be on to a winner if they put the boot into these outfits. The good people of Hari Hari have rights too.

What rights of theirs have been violated? The trespass order was served and the man was moved on.
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August 27, 2012 5:40pm
joana

Kowtow ,
The situation at the Dowse Gallery is an example of creeping sharia..It should be strenuously opposed. There are lots of comments in the Dom Post but the story does not seem to be in other NZ papers..Hopefully there will be more complaints to the Human Rights Commission. Though it is likely they will side with the muslims.
Imagine the fuss if it was another group being discriminated against.
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August 27, 2012 6:14pm
Manolo

Thank you, bereal.
This is worth watching: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-fabric-of-the-cosmos/
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August 27, 2012 6:19pm
Elaycee

freemark:

Returning from a few days overseas last week I was interested to see the request on the entry card for email address, cellphone number. When did this happen, and is there any reason apart from surveillance?

Nothing sinister – its been there for quite some time and is simply a precaution in case someone on the flight comes down with an illness and others on the same flight need to be contacted / checked whether they have similar symptoms.

So put your worry beads away….. 😀
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August 27, 2012 6:50pm
peterwn

Weihana – Comments on Whaleoil’s item on this topic paint a rather ugly picture. There is missing information, but suspicions are raised when someone has been ‘parasiting’ on a community, for example unlawfully occupying a church as a residence. It appears some people there feel intimidated. I know someone who worked in south Westland for several years, and it tends to attract pot growers etc who will seek retribution against those who inform the police – part of the problem is its remoteness makes policing difficult there.

Back to those complainants. Why in any way does the trespasser need to know their identities? For what lawful purpose would he use the information? I cannot think of any, apart from intimidation and retribution Ewen McDonald style – so why should the HRC committee get uptight over this.

The ‘damage’ to him would be worth no more than $100 let alone $10,000. This is especially as the appropriateness of the trespass notice was not successfully challenged. The all-up $16,000 cost has to be met either by the school community or the long suffering taxpayer, not sure which. It is just not fair – as the BOT Chairman says – it stinks. And it is pretty certain that the trespasser will continue to make life miserable for the people of Hari Hari.

You indicate that the relevant decision is not available on the internet. If the HRC and its committees were to be concerned about misunderstandings or misinformation concerning this case – the answer is for them to get the decision put on the internet ASAP. As things stand they have left themselves wide open to be pilloried.
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August 27, 2012 6:51pm
Manolo

Anger in South Africa’s rugby: http://www.rugby365.com/article/49312-boks-caught-in-downward-spiral
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August 27, 2012 6:55pm
Viking2

Surely the accussed is entitled to face the accuser opr more importantly the accusser should be required to available for examination. The accusations could be and maybe false therefore if that information is not available to the accussed how can he right any wrongs or have a discussion about it.
It smacks of serious intimidation without the transparency of releasing that information.
On that basis the school deserves all it got and probably more.
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August 27, 2012 7:07pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/fun-over-for-schoolchildren-at-drummoyne-public-school-as-handstands-cartwheels-and-somersaults-are-banned/story-e6freuy9-1226459182297

Schools, gotta love em
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August 27, 2012 7:43pm
Johnboy

Trees are on the endangered list. Happy campers will soon have to light a fire again as Butane is soon to be sold only to those folks, of sober habits, with a government license! 🙂

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7555173/Plea-for-vigilance-after-latest-huffing-tragedy
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August 27, 2012 7:54pm
nasska

An Irishman and an American were sitting in the bar at Shannon Airport.

“I’ve come to meet my brother,” said the Irishman. “He’s due to fly in from America in an hour’s time. It’s his first trip home in forty years.”

“Will you be able to recognize him?” asked the American.

“I’m sure I won’t,” said the Irishman, “after all, he’s been away for a long time.”

“I wonder if he’ll recognize you?” said the American.

“Of course he will,” said the Irishman. “Sure, an’ I haven’t been away at all.”
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August 27, 2012 8:00pm
Griff

Butane Darwins friend
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August 27, 2012 8:01pm
Johnboy

Griff….. 🙂 🙂 !!
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August 27, 2012 8:03pm
Pauleastbay

Sex With Older Men

When George Burns was 97 years old he was interviewed by Oprah Winfrey.

Oprah asked, ‘Mr. Burns, how do you carry so much energy with you? You are

always working, and at your age I think that is remarkable.’

Oprah said, ‘I understand you still do the sex thing, even at your age..’

George said, ‘Of course I still do the sex thing, and I am quite good at it.

Oprah said, ‘I have never been with an older man. Would you do it with me?’

So they had sex and when they finished, Oprah said, ‘I just don’t believe I

have ever been so satisfied. You are a remarkable man!’

George said, ‘The second time is even better than the first time.’

Oprah asked, ‘You can really do it again at your age?’

George said, ‘Just let me sleep for half an hour. You hold my testicles in

your left hand and my penis in your right hand and wake me up in thirty minutes.’

When she woke him up, they had great sex again, and Oprah was beside herself with joy.

She said, ‘Oh Mr. Burns, I am astounded that you could do a repeat

performance and have it be even better than the first time.

George told her that the third time would be even better. ‘You just hold my

testicles in your left hand and my penis in your right hand and call me in thirty minutes.’

Oprah asked, ‘Does my holding you like that kind of recharge your batteries?

George replied, ‘No, but the last time I had sex with a black woman she stole my wallet.�
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August 27, 2012 8:13pm
Johnboy

Was George your room mate Paul? 🙂

http://www.thirdage.com/d/al/3550/east-bay-manor-east-providence-ri
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August 27, 2012 8:17pm
nasska

I drove into South Auckland for the first time ever today.

My GPS unit said, “Drive faster and put me under the seat when you leave the vehicle.”
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August 27, 2012 8:18pm
Northland Wahine

nasska… never mind your gps, you were meals wheels, mate.
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August 27, 2012 8:21pm
nasska

Northland Wahine

In truth it’s been a long time since I ventured into South Auckland but the thought of being the ingredient missing from the neighbourhood umu doesn’t encourage me much. 🙂
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August 27, 2012 8:25pm
Northland Wahine

Hey, better to be on the menu, than married off to queen salote(sp?)
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August 27, 2012 8:32pm
Johnboy

No need to head as far as Jafaville nasska for your honky thrills. Head south from Whitby on Burglar Drive thru Graffitiville, hang a right at Cannibals Creek and hope you don’t get a flat from a shotgun blast before the Mungavin Interchange! 🙂
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August 27, 2012 8:32pm
nasska

Northland Wahine

Thank you for those words of comfort. 🙂

Johnboy

I’ll stay holed up in the good ol’Wairarapa thanks. 🙂
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August 27, 2012 8:34pm
tedbear

I’ve had my thinking cap on again regarding the water debate.

Presumably this water the Maori claim to own or have proprietary rights to, is the stuff that was laying around when the treaty was signed. ie 1840, so I assume there is a label attached that water.

Unless it’s specifically written in the original treaty, they surely cannot own or have proprietary rights to future water, eg next week’s rain. Some or all of next week’s rain may have started life in Australia for example, so for Maori to claim ownership or proprietary rights to next week’s water from rain means they also own Australia’s water.

As for the words “proprietary” and “ownership”, in legal use, they are synonyms.
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August 27, 2012 9:11pm
OneTrack

Naughty tedEbear. You arent allowed to say the “bad” O word in relation to “rights”. You might scare the horses. Its better just to keep the temperature slowly warming up so the frog, I mean the kiwis , dont realise what happening.

As far as water rights, well I am more than happy for maori to continue to make use of their tradional water rights – one flax bag at a time. They did say traditional, right?
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August 27, 2012 9:25pm
tedbear

The Yahoo news page has a poll going..Do we need to limit the sale of dangerous gasses?
Yes, let’s do that and while we’re at it, why not go the whole hog, limit everything and plain package everything. Also have a policeman outside every shop checking ID’s. gang patches, hoodies, crying children, people with runny noses.
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August 27, 2012 9:38pm
Johnboy

We certainly do tedbear. Imagine the mayhem if we gave nitrous oxide to the Waitangi Tribunal? 🙂
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August 27, 2012 9:43pm
kowtow

Will the Canadian film makers pals please step forward to condemn the Koran Students for this outrage? No, that outrage is reserved for our own.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194158/Seventeen-civilians-including-women-beheaded-Afghanistan-taking-village-music-festival.html
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August 27, 2012 10:08pm
Longknives

I’d also like some comment from the Canadian ‘Film Maker’ on this-

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/7558453/Taleban-beheads-party-goers

Her quote- “One man’s Taleban is another man’s Freedom Fighter”
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August 27, 2012 10:13pm
Manolo

There is a limit to how much Botox one’s face can take: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/26/us-argentina-fernandez-poll-idUSBRE87P07620120826
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August 28, 2012 6:59am
b1gdaddynz

Sonny Blount (1,561) Says:

August 27th, 2012 at 2:49 pm
b1gdaddynz (50) Says:
August 27th, 2012 at 9:57 am
I don’t think it is appropriate for a single man to live on a school grounds so would question him being allowed to stay there from the start;

What an utterly disgusting thing to say

Why? or is that the extent of your argument?
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August 28, 2012 7:51am

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