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July 14, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 July 2012

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General Debate

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chiz

Because there isn’t much that is newsworthy about it. Ionosphere research isn’t a sexy subject to write about.
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July 14, 2012 8:12pm
Reid

Yes chiz. Perhaps you should consider the possibility others know more about something than you know. Or hasn’t that possibility yet occurred, to you?
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July 14, 2012 8:29pm
chiz

Perhaps you should consider the possibility that they don’t. Nick Begich has a degree from an institution that teaches Ayurveda and Homeopathy. He’s a crackpot. I remember watching a BBC doco about HAARP many years ago which went into detail about how the conspiracy theorists were taking things out of context.
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July 14, 2012 8:34pm
chiz

For people who don’t want to eat in to their data caps, or their time, by watching the video that reid linked to, you can find a summary here.
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July 14, 2012 8:52pm
nasska

Reid

Following on from your 8.02 I went for a look on Google to find out a little more. Without commenting on any USA involvement it would seem that the connection between certain cloud formations & earthquakes has been long noted.

…”Earthquake cloudsIn chapter 32 of his work Brihat Samhita, Indian scholar Varahamihira (505 – 587) discussed a number of signs warning of earthquakes: Unusual animal behavior, astrological influences, underground movements of water, and extraordinary clouds occurring a week before the earthquake.”….

Ref: http://pinewooddesign.co.uk/2008/05/12/earthquake-cloud-prediction/
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July 14, 2012 8:53pm
Reid

Perhaps people interested in HAARP should look at this:

http://www.google.co.nz/search?aq=f&sugexp=chrome,mod=13&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=haarp

then ask themselves if there’s nothing in it, how come there’s 10,300,000 links?
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July 14, 2012 9:05pm
chiz

What disinformation have I posted? Just because there a large number of links on the internet to something it doesn’t follow that its true.
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July 14, 2012 9:08pm
Steve (North Shore)

Reid, can you send some sort of messege to my Mum please? I told her about this animal behavior when people (mamals) act strange.
I’m sure she will get from the radio waves about 3am
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July 14, 2012 9:09pm
Reid

Chiz, in terms of educating yourself: if you don’t understand the ayurvedas, you understand nothing.

I don’t really have time to educate you in those. How about get in touch, in say, 10 years? That’s about the time I estimate it will take for you immature ego to transform into what it needs to, to comprehend.
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July 14, 2012 9:12pm
big bruv

I realise I may well be tempting fate but…..has the drug fucked one been banned?
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July 14, 2012 9:20pm
chiz

What immature ego? Ayurvedic medicine is descended from the ancient Greek theory of humors. It is pseudoscience. If you don’t understand this then take some time to learn some basic science. Like a lot of crackpots you seem to be very close-minded and to have difficulty accepting that the scientific community has a better understanding of things than you think
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July 14, 2012 9:20pm
Reid

No he’s been curiously absent, BB.
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July 14, 2012 9:21pm
nasska

big bruv

Haven’t seen a word to confirm or deny the theory. I think that most are wary of offending the gods by mentioning the subject.

Probably in another year or so we’ll just laugh nervously & look the other way when someone mentions the dreaded name.
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July 14, 2012 9:24pm
Reid

chiz, you clearly wish to take me on.

What if I don’t wish to take you on?

What happens then?
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July 14, 2012 9:24pm
chiz

I have no such wish. I’m just pointing out that some of your claims are baseless.
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July 14, 2012 9:26pm
Reid

Which ones?
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July 14, 2012 9:27pm
chiz

Haarp, ayurveda etc.
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July 14, 2012 9:31pm
Reid

chiz: Sigh.

OK.

HAARP does exist, there are photos.

In order to understand HAARP, you need to understand Tesla’s research, in detail. What’s your level on 1-10;

1 being, people who watch telly to get their news and would probably think Tesla, the man on the telly in “this episode” was their local milkman, notwithstanding milkmen disappeared some time ago.

10 being: you have read all about Tesla
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/01/10-inventions-of-nikola-tesla-that.html
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July 14, 2012 9:44pm
chiz

Of course HAARP exists, I’m not disputing that. However it is just an ionospheric research program, nothing more. All the stuff about it being a weather weapon, an earthquake weapon, or being involved in mind-control is just nonsense.

And yes, I know who Tesla is. I have a degree in maths, among other things and I think its safe to say I have a better understanding of physics than you. Tesla has nothing to do with HAARP that I’m aware of unless you are talking about basic stuff such as Alternating Current. That Tesla site isn’t very good – Tesla didn’t invent the laser, there is no life force etc.
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July 14, 2012 9:53pm
Reid

chiz,do you seriously believe, given you know “who Tesla is” that Tesla has nothing to do with HAARP? If so, how. e.g.

I think its safe to say I have a better understanding of physics than you

So tell us chiz, how HAARP works. I’m waiting with baited breath.
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July 14, 2012 10:17pm
chiz

Why? If you want to know how it works you can read the details on various websites. Start with the wikipedia.

Perhaps you can explain what relationship Tesla and his work is supposed to have with HAARP. I assume you have watched the video in its entirety, unlike me, so you can presumably fill me on the supposed details. What exactly is his connection with ionospheric heating? I don’t see it. As far as I can tell he only comes into it because he is popular with the crackpot crowd.
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July 14, 2012 10:24pm
Reid

Perhaps you can explain what relationship Tesla and his work is supposed to have with HAARP.

Certainly chiz.

Tesla’s research focused on electromagnetism. Duh. That’s the relationship. Sorry if you don’t understand.

As far as I can tell he only comes into it because he is popular with the crackpot crowd.

Possibly because that’s because you have no idea who he really was Chiz and you don’t wan’t to know. Certainly anyone who denigrates Tesla has no idea who he’s denigrating.
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July 14, 2012 10:38pm
chiz

Yes, but specifically what does Tesla have to do with HAARP? Claiming that he is linked because, duh, he worked on electromagnetism, and that HAARP uses electromagnetism is silly. Using the same kind of reasoning you could argue that the people who first discovered metal thousands of years ago are linked to HAARP because, hey, HAARP uses metal.
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July 14, 2012 10:44pm
Reid

chiz, I’m sorry for you that you can’t understand Tesla’s research but I hardly feel it’s my job to walk you through the basics.

Sorry, but you know, if you claim to be tertiary qualified then there is a point when you need to stand on your own two feet.

His research is not my opinion, chiz. His research stands on its own. I really do think you should look it up yourself.

specifically what does Tesla have to do with HAARP?

You mean other than inventing the base technology in the 1930’s?
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July 14, 2012 10:50pm
chiz

Well, you don’t have to go into details, just give me pointers.

I know he did some early research on the ionosphere and discovered the schumann resonance, but I’m still not sure what the connection specifically with HAARP is. Why do I “need to understand Tesla’s research” to understand what HAARP is doing. I knew about the schumann resonance long before I knew that Tesla had anything to do with it, and I suspect that most books on the Ionosphere will only mention Tesla’s name in a historical context. Its perfectly possible to understand Ionospheric physics without knowing the names of the people who did pioneering experiments on it, just as its possible to understand modern electronics without being intricately familiar with the work of its pioneers.

As far as I can I tell Tesla only comes into this, as I’ve said before, because his name has a certain cachet with the crackpot crowd. You have yet to give any reason to believe otherwise.
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July 14, 2012 11:05pm
chiz

You mean other than inventing the base technology in the 1930′s?

Thats like claiming that I need to be familiar with Marconi’s work to understand modern radio. The field has moved on a lot since then.
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July 14, 2012 11:07pm
chiz

By way of example, suppose that someone invented a new kind of electric battery that could store way more energy that any other kind of battery on the market, and enough in fact, to revolutionise the electric car industry. Would you expect any press releases or media discussion to require a familiarity with Volta’s initial experiments that lead to the invention of the battery?
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July 14, 2012 11:12pm
thedavincimode

nasska

He announced that because he was extremely unhappy at the umpiring, he would be taking his taxpayer funded bat and ball and going to his taxpayer funded home. Fortunately, Lee01 has stepped up to fill the intellectual vaccuum with the assistance of his trusty compadre kowtow.

I blame the Catholics. If they aplogise for nothing else, they should aplogise for this sorry sate of affairs. [Tut, tut, tsk tsk font] Well, plus Munich 1972 and The Inquisition of course.
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July 14, 2012 11:19pm
Manolo

Not the same in Oz: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10819681
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July 15, 2012 8:11am
Manolo

Raising children with our money: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10819669
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July 15, 2012 8:13am
Dave Mann

@Viking2 (7,118)…. well, not quite THAT brief! hahahaha

I’d like to echo wiseowl (140) in thanking you for the heads-up on the Franks article. Its easy to exaggerate things in blogs (Nazis, conspiracies blah blah etc), but its no exaggeration at all to say that the New Zealand National Party is in the grip of Maori Nationalists/Separatists to a degree that even Labour didn’t ever reach.

Who, a few years ago, would have thought that the Maoris would, with a straight face, claim a right to the WATER? More frighteningly, who would have thought that any government would have failed to stand up to them so utterly.

If this goes on, we might as well adjust to the fact that in a few years New Zealand will be like South Africa was until the early ’90s. Do we want this?
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July 15, 2012 10:45am
mikenmild

Do you really think that NZ race relations stand comparison with apartheid? You might want to think about that for a moment.
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July 15, 2012 10:48am
Dave Mann

Yes I do. In South Africa most of the whites were probably basically decent people who simply failed to act and allowed a racist regime to dominate the majority, and thus became morally corrupted by the system.

Its very similar here. Most Maoris probably thought of themselves as New Zealanders until they were repeatedly told that they were special, disadvantaged and deserved more and more. Now, increasingly, their most extreme separatists see the enticing prospect of actually gaining power over the country and general populace is just mindlessly going along with the act.

Apartheid didn’t just happen overnight in South Africa. Its following a similar path here.
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July 15, 2012 11:02am
mikenmild

It is by no means an accurate reflection, unless you think that Maori will seize political power, disenfranchise other races and impose an authoritarian regime. Good luck with arguing that is what is happening.
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July 15, 2012 11:07am
Dave Mann

I give it 20 years. Watch out, Pakeha – and Asians, Indians etc….. your time is coming too…
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July 15, 2012 11:18am
Pete George

unless you think that Maori will seize political power, disenfranchise other races and impose an authoritarian regime. Good luck with arguing that is what is happening.

There are some Māori who want that. Most don’t, most are prepared to work and live together with the rest of us.
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July 15, 2012 11:19am
mikenmild

I’ll expect it about the same time as whites resume power in South Africa and reimpose apartheid.
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July 15, 2012 11:30am
Dave Mann

Yes, Pete. But as the extremists become more vocal and as the mainstream, in both Maoridom and the population at large, fail to confront them, their racial demands will become progressively more strident. We see it happening now and it has been getting worse for 15 years or so.

The logical outcome of this path is either war, or capitulation to racism/separatism. The only way to avoid either of these two outcomes is to stop pissing around and confront and challenge these extremists at every opportunity and stop them from gaining any more footholds than they already have. It might be too late, though.
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July 15, 2012 11:31am
Pete George

Dave Mann – I’ve just been confronting them at The Standard and seem to have initiated an uprising against me. They don’t like being challenged. They’ve been trying to hound any challenging out of there, and this time made a concerted effort. I wonder how they got on.
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July 16, 2012 4:52pm

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