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July 10, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 July 2012

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General Debate

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superflynz

Was going to respond to Philu but freemark beat me to it…

May I suggest a quick IQ test when logging into Kiwiblog? Spot the difference or something similar?
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July 10, 2012 3:26pm
philu

“..If you can’t see the difference I say you fail the intelligence criteria for intelligent debate…”

ok freemark..let’s just assume i am a dummy…

..so educate me…explain to me ..and the rest of the dummies who can’t slide a ciggy-paper between the two…

..what the actual ‘difference’…is..

..phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 3:31pm
philu

“..May I suggest a quick IQ test when logging into Kiwiblog? ..”

wouldn’t testing if knuckles drag on the ground while walking be a more effective filter..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 3:36pm
Other_Andy

@mikenmild

“Can you explain please how thw wind farms are subsidised?”

Apart from being inefficient and environmentally unfriendly, the generation of wind energy is one of the most costly forms of energy production when compared to other forms of production in a commercial setting in New Zealand.
However, an energy company generating energy using a variety of production methods will sell its electricity at a uniform price, in effect subsidising inefficient and costly production with efficient and cheap production.
Being a state owned enterprise that doesn’t really matter, being a commercial one is does.
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July 10, 2012 4:05pm
mikenmild

So only SOEs have developed wind farms here and can be expected to decommission them once privatised? It occurs to me that this would be a breach of the legal requirment for SOEs to operate as efficiently as comparable privately owned businesses.
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July 10, 2012 4:21pm
Lee01

“Democracy has nothing to do with freedom. Democracy is a soft variant of communism, and rarely in the history of ideas has it been taken for anything else.”

“As for the moral status of majority rule, it must be pointed out that it allows for A and B to band together to rip off C, C and A in turn joining to rip off B, and then B and C conspiring against A, and so on.”

“Egalitarianism, in every form and shape, is incompatible with the idea of private property. Private property implies exclusivity, inequality, and difference. And cultural relativism is incompatible with the fundamental—-indeed foundational-fact of fact of families and intergenerational kinship relations. Families and kinship relations imply cultural absolutism.”

Democracy – The God That Failed: The Economics and Politics of Monarchy, Democracy, and Natural Orde.
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July 10, 2012 4:42pm
mikenmild

As Churchill remarked, ‘It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.’
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July 10, 2012 4:48pm
Wayne91

Elaycee – I cant believe that a gathering of 6 nutters commanded so much MSM space when the all important Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club Reunion, Manchester, UK. 1980. has only just got a mention!
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July 10, 2012 4:52pm
leftyliberal

Other_Andy: The article you quoted above said that a pH of 8.1 is more acidic than a pH of 8.2. Notice the use of the word “more”. As the pH scale is logarithmic, it means there’s about 25% more H+ ions than there were before.

You are correct the CO2 absorption by the ocean is dependent on temperature, so there is a safety valve (negative feedback) here in that as the ocean temperatures rise, less CO2 will be absorbed per annum. pH has a similar affect – as the ocean gets more acidic, it can absorb less CO2. Indeed, this is used in some climate models to make things worse CO2-wise in the atmosphere, as the ocean can no longer absorb the excess at the same rate – I suspect this isn’t where you wanted your argument to go, however 😉
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July 10, 2012 4:54pm
Manolo

Knowing this liar, his demise may be near:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/venezuelas-chavez-says-totally-free-cancer-215250526.html
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July 10, 2012 4:59pm
Other_Andy

@mm

“So only SOEs have developed wind farms here and can be expected to decommission them once privatised?”

No, the investment needs to be recovered. However, while wind turbines are designed to work for about 20 years, it doesn’t mean that they will.

“It occurs to me that this would be a breach of the legal requirment for SOEs to operate as efficiently as comparable privately owned businesses.”

SOE’s might be required to operate as efficiently as comparable privately owned businesses but I am sure there are other(political) parameters as well. Those who appoint the Board members of a company (In this case the government) want to have some say in how that company is run. Or do you think that when Prime Minister Helen Clark announced in 2007 that New Zealand was aiming to be the first carbon neutral country by 2020 energy companies in New Zealand weren’t in any way ‘encouraged’ to develop wind energy (amongst other alternative forms of energy)?
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July 10, 2012 5:03pm
chiz

From another blog:

.hi..as i have no income from whoar..(as yet..)..

..and so am unable to promote/advertise the site..

..i would appreciate it if you appreciate the daily offerings here..

..that you spread the word about whoar through your various networks…

..’cos an increase in patronage will bring me to that magic spot…

..where income will be able to be used to make whoar even bigger and better…

..we are here for the long haul..eh..?

..thank you very much..
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July 10, 2012 5:05pm
Other_Andy

@leftyliberal

“The article you quoted above said that a pH of 8.1 is more acidic than a pH of 8.2. ”

The main point is of course that neither 8.1 or 8.2 is acidic.
A millionaire is poorer than a billionaire but that doesn’t mean he is poor.

“Indeed, this is used in some climate models to make things worse CO2-wise in the atmosphere, as the ocean can no longer absorb the excess at the same rate – I suspect this isn’t where you wanted your argument to go, however”

That is only important if you believe that you can do anything significant about the CO2 levels in the Earth’s athmosphere.
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July 10, 2012 5:16pm
chiz

Acidification = decrease in pH. It doesn’t matter if the starting solution is acidic, neutral, or alkaline.
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July 10, 2012 5:19pm
Viking2

If ever there was a reason to shut down the odious court, so called, the Waitangi Tribunal its adherants have shown it today. As I understand it the Tribuanl can only make reccomendations which the Govt. of the day can either take up or dismiss.s

well you wouldn’t think so from the comments reported today.

All the nasties have turned up in full voice.
This Govt. should do what it should have done after the last election. Pulled the pin on Maori seats and unfunded that odious institution that is hell bent on using lies and false information to hand or country to a bunch of odiuos racists.

Chief Judge Wilson Isaac called a 20-minute break after iwi taking part in an urgent water claim hearing warned that the Prime Minister’s comments risked “a race war”.

Key’s comments have also sparked a furious reaction from Government allies the Maori Party – who drew parallels with the 2004 foreshore and seabed row that split Maoridom and sparked a 40,000-strong march on Parliament.

In a statement, Maori party co-leaders Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples warned that they viewed his dismissal of the Waitangi Tribunal “very seriously” after Key said the Government could choose to “ignore what findings they might have”.

“To make such comments is an insult to all of us. We believe that the Government is required in good faith to consider the recommendations of the tribunal.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7251078/Tempers-raised-over-water-issue
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July 10, 2012 5:24pm
Elaycee

@Wayne91 (4:52 pm):

Agree – it is a tragedy. Life is harsh… 🙁
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July 10, 2012 5:24pm
Other_Andy

@chiz

Granted.
Hoever, would there be a reason why they never tell people what it ACTUALLY means?
Ocean acidification sounds scary untill you tell them that the pH has changed 0.1 in 200 years and that it hasn’t turned acidic by a long shot.
The thing is of course that because of the deliberate omission of these facts, the average person in the street thinks the oceans are doomed.
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July 10, 2012 5:29pm
chiz

But what other term would you use? Hypoalkilinisation, say? Who would understand that?
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July 10, 2012 5:32pm
krazykiwi

Green arithmetic from the UK:

Green Jobs Count: Fewer Than Before, Sillier Than Ever

Back in March, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released a study showing our economy had 3.1 million green jobs. Recently, it issued another green jobs study with a headlining number of 854,700 green jobs.

Don’t worry—the economy did not lose 2 million green jobs in three months. There were not 3.1 million green jobs to begin with. And there are not 854,700 green jobs now.

We have already analyzed the uselessness of the first study (here and here). Signs that the first study’s definition of “green” was questionable include:

— There were 33 times as many green jobs in the septic tank and portable toilet servicing industry as in the solar utility industry;

— More than 50 percent of all jobs in steel mills were green;

— There were more green jobs in school bus and employee transportation (160,896), trash collection (116,293), and used merchandise stores (106,865) than in either engineering services (100,847) or architectural services (71,891); and

— The acting commissioner of the BLS admitted that oil-industry lobbying could be considered a green job.
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July 10, 2012 5:38pm
Other_Andy

@chiz

“But what other term would you use? Hypoalkilinisation, say? Who would understand that?”

Why mention it at all? It is another fabricated crisis….
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July 10, 2012 5:43pm
wiseowl

There is a difference between water rights and water ownership.
Its time this treaty stuff was challenged head on.
Listening to JT and Willy today was a challenge and when they say without hesitation they own water ,it was one of their ‘possessions’ , it is high time to clarify it.
I’m sure most Kiwis don’t see it that way.
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July 10, 2012 5:46pm
slijmbal

On the bright side the current reigning in of Kiwirail costs means Len’s choo choo set is even less likely.

Has anyone noticed the irony of Kiwirail’s head office being nowhere near rail? Convenient for the motorway though.
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July 10, 2012 6:13pm
Reid

Listening to Checkpoint right now on this water issue and one of the iwi leaders quite seriously suggested to the tribunal today that Maori should own 100% of all SOE’s to “protect” them from being sold overseas.

Listening to another one who is saying, to effect, look, it’s a fait accompli, of course we own it, no question, so he’s now threatening the buyers over the risks if there isn’t a water settlement.

I mean this is mental.

It’s time for Key to get on Walrus and Campbell and laugh in their faces. Time for him to sneer and mock and then get a copy of Ti Tiriti and rip it up right there on camera and get a shotgun just like Iti did and blast it to smithereens. Too bad if Walrus and/or Campbell get in the way. Awww. That would be a weal twagedy.
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July 10, 2012 6:18pm
philu

interesting how gareth morgan is agreeing with hone on this issue…

key..putting the ‘mire’ in ‘quagmire’…

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 6:29pm
wiseowl

‘I mean this is mental’
Sure is Reid.
what has to happen in this country to wake up the populace and get a major response.?
Kiwis are being walked all over and the response is…………nothing.
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July 10, 2012 6:30pm
philu

are.. (self-describing) christians..when they advocate the shotgun-murders of television current affairs hosts…

..are they able to just put to one side..the commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’….?

..how does all that that work..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 6:36pm
James Stephenson

There wasn’t room on Moses’ slabs to fit the words “collateral damage”
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July 10, 2012 6:42pm
philu

..are there listed exemptions to that commandment..?

as in:..television current affairs hosts you don’t like….muslims….gays…

..y’see.!…i include animals in that commandment…

..and it has no exemptions…human or beast..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 6:45pm
Sofia

The reaction today to Key’s realistic reminder that the Waitangi Tribunal’s findings are not mandatory, shows why the Tribunal’s findings should not be mandatory.
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July 10, 2012 6:53pm
philu

maori stopped/saved assets from being sold in the 80’s…

..let’s hope they can do it/are successful again..

..and progressive pakeha should wake up to the fact that their true allies in opposition to this travesty…are maori..

..and should embrace that partnership…there and elsewhere..

..and realise that maori are fighting for our common good…

..fighting to stop control over our basics of life…

..of the lifeblood of the land..

..being sold into elites/foreign control….

..which if it happens..we will rue forever and a day..

..phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 7:01pm
Pete George

Kiwis are being walked all over and the response is…………nothing.

They’ll react if they realise they may have to pay royalties on any water they use. But by the time the realise it may be too late.
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July 10, 2012 7:11pm
big bruv

“They’ll react if they realise they may have to pay royalties on any water they use. But by the time the realise it may be too late.”

But don’t worry, just when we think all is lost Mr Sensible (aka the political slut from Karori) will come along and tell us all in condescending tones that we have nothing to worry about.
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July 10, 2012 7:14pm
leftyliberal

Oh well Other_Andy, you only have to wait another few years – the Tararua wind farm was installed in 1999, so not long now to exceed a 20 year life 🙂
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July 10, 2012 7:18pm
wiseowl

Time for Mr Sensible to make a name for himself?
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July 10, 2012 7:20pm
Steve (North Shore)

Phool at 7.01.

Stop taking the piss. The other day you said you supported the Mixed Ownership, or were you taking this piss then?
‘The more I hear about it the more I like it’ or words similar.
Taking the piss?
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July 10, 2012 7:21pm
mikenmild

lefty
I’m pretty sure O_A has made these assertions about wind power before. Now it turns out it’s just a conspiracy, with the previous government ordering its tame SOEs to build these.
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July 10, 2012 7:23pm
Pete George

big bruv, that’s a pathetic way to address something like this, but then, you don’t seem to understand sensible.

This may be a bloody difficult thing to sort out, resorting to hissy shits won’t achieve much, will it. Especially directed at someone who’s in a position to actually make a difference. A way to guarantee failure is to bicker amongst yourselves.
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July 10, 2012 7:26pm
mikenmild

I think we can all rely on Mr Sensible to act in the best interests of remaining a Cabinet Minister as long as he can – because only that way can he keep being so helpful to his fellow citizens.
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July 10, 2012 7:30pm
Other_Andy

@mikenmild

“I’m pretty sure O_A has made these assertions about wind power before.”

Which ones milky?

“Now it turns out it’s just a conspiracy, with the previous government ordering its tame SOEs to build these.”

Conspiracy? Where did I say that?
Anything sensible to say or are you just being your obnoxious self and make $h1t up as usual?
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July 10, 2012 7:31pm
Reid

Nah Franks was quite correct, this is a legal mugging.

If I were Key I’d be right spreading that phrase all over the newspapers. It would become the equivalent of the calculated ‘haters and wreckers’ phrase some other PM used.

However, guess what.

Where’s his Maori Party support for the asset sales legislation if he does that? I can’t recall the numbers but I think he needs them doesn’t he.

So let’s be clear. This is in fact, a legal mugging. Yes, it is. Anyone who questions that, has to answer why the issue has never been raised in the decades before, cause it hasn’t. Despite full and final being appended to settlement after settlement, this is the first time, and what a convenient time, this issue has been raised. Secondly, if the Maori Council gets free shares, is it true they really go away? And if so what does that say about this being about principle?

No. A conservative govt is being rorted, and it looks like they’re going to roll over. And this is a conservative govt. Imagine what Liarbore would do. And who pays? That’s right. And why? No reason, really. A bunch of cunning natives got uppity and we decided that was vewy insensitive of us, to be such a meanie we didn’t even give them any fwee shares. I mean, they’re the natives, they’re special. Us, the people who built the fucking country and everything you see around you, we don’t matter at all, we’re not pwecious, we’re just “occupiers.”

This country is fucked, boys and girls: F-U-C-K-E-D.

For the first time ever, I don’t see an upside to living here. I’ve had a lot of straws on my back but I’ll tell ya depending what happens over this, could be the last one, for me. Gutsful, I have had.
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July 10, 2012 7:32pm
Pete George

Reid, no Maori Party support needed for the MOM Bill, it’s been passed without him. I suspect they have sat out the bill in the house, waiting for this opportunity.

And I think they are trying to skewer Labour – sucked in to stopping asset sales at any cost, but Labour could easily be leading the government that has to try and keep sorting this out. They seem to be quiet on it, probably wondering what the hell they can do to extracate themselves.
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July 10, 2012 7:37pm
Pete George

And the Greens will be barely suppressing their glee.

If ever we needed a bit of strong support in the centre it’s now, but hey, it’s easier to just jump on the hissy bandwagon, and then moan about not having enough allies to deal with it.
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July 10, 2012 7:42pm
Other_Andy

leftyliberal

“Oh well Other_Andy, you only have to wait another few years – the Tararua wind farm was installed in 1999, so not long now to exceed a 20 year life ”

Stage 1 was installed in 1999, the others in 2004 and 2007.

What is more interesting was what else I found on the website. It appears that windpower IS getting a government subsidy, something I did not know. Of course it isn’t called a subsidy…..
They get money from the ETS scam.

TrustPower was granted tradeable greenhouse gas emissions units (carbon credits) for Stage 2 and 3 as part of the Ministry for the Environment’s Projects to Reduce Emissions Scheme (PRE) in 2003/2004.

So the actual production price is scewered to start off with.
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July 10, 2012 7:49pm
Reid

Pete thanks for that. However, why would Liarbore care, they don’t want asset sales anyway.

Who is they in: “I think they are trying to skewer Labour”

I assume you mean Maori?

No. I think this is a mere venal unprincipled grab without long term calculation. I think they’re opportunistic rather than strategic. Water ownership is not something the country will accept Maori having. Why is it a taonga for Maori and not the same taonga for us, the country would say.

It’s like the airwaves. So what Maori are angling for is a slice of the action, at our expense.

Key will give it to them, because he’s a gutless dishcloth of a leader who looks for the compromise all the time regardless of the rights and wrongs. I have no time for that, since this is the wrong thing, same as he compromised to the country on what the asset sales cash would be used for. But Key will use the politically correct psychobabble infested in this country’s political decision-making processes to do the wrong thing – again. I really hope I’m wrong Pete.
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July 10, 2012 7:49pm
Pete George

Would anyone here be prepared to sacrifice selling MOM shares in order to hold on to universal water rights? It could come to that.
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July 10, 2012 7:53pm
wiseowl

This is a serious issue PG.I think we are tipping point over this one and if key and co don’t tough it out we are doomed.It’s that bad.
Time to save the country over and above the crave for power.
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July 10, 2012 7:53pm
philu

“..Phool at 7.01.

Stop taking the piss. The other day you said you supported the Mixed Ownership, or were you taking this piss then?
‘The more I hear about it the more I like it’ or words similar.
Taking the piss?..”

no..i was talking about my new/improved mixed ownership model..

..which i’m calling nationalising-lite….

..where the nationalising of whatever isn’t a 100% takeover…the state just takes that 51% stake..

..leaving the private operators to retain 49%/and to provide the expertise to operate whatever has been nationalised…

..hands-off nationalising..as it were..

..what i described as ‘all the benefits of nationalising (ie profits/control/standards for the common-good)..and with none of the heartache…

..and that ad for zeal that notes how many millions have already done into the super-fund..just confirms the benefits/power of that idea..

..and the govt could be totally hands-off..(i am not envisaging massive new beaurocracies to run these nationalised industries/w.h.y..

..retaining the current management/infrastructure obviates any need for such complications..

..a lean/mean overseeing/distributing..(to super-fund etc) beast should do the trick..(and as just one example..wd fix all of our superannuation-issues..)

..we have to start making new zealand work for the common good…(not just for the elites/foreign shareholders/owners.)

..and this new/improved mixed ownership model is a good start in that direction..

..and is an idea whose time has come..

..(hope that clarifies that m.o.m-misunderstanding for you..)

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 7:55pm
Pete George

wiseowl – yes, that’s what I’m thinking too. To tough out water rights it may mean at least postponing the share floats – possibly for years. I think we have to be prepared for that.
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July 10, 2012 7:59pm
Steve (North Shore)

“..and progressive pakeha should wake up to the fact that their true allies in opposition to this travesty…are maori..”

and then from your 7. 55 post:
“no..i was talking about my new/improved mixed ownership model..

..which i’m calling nationalising-lite….

..where the nationalising of whatever isn’t a 100% takeover…the state just takes that 51% stake..

..leaving the private operators to retain 49%/and to provide the expertise to operate whatever has been nationalised…”

Which puts your idea in conflict with Maori.
Sort that one out Phool.
After that have a drink of water, make sure you pay for your water
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July 10, 2012 8:08pm
Sofia

Lawyer Kathy Ertel, who represents Ngati Ruapani, said they were working hard to avoid the issue becoming a race war … “This is a sub judice issue and the Prime Minister’s out there saying ‘doesn’t matter what the Tribunal says we’re going to ignore it’.”
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7251078/Tempers-raised-over-water-issue

Who knows what Key intends, but Key?
However, in saying the Government can ignore the Tribunal, is he not telling the Tribunal to come up with something that is not reasonable to ignore?

And : a sub judice issue – ?

Personally I am dismayed New Zealand continues the take such an ancient and fucking badly-worded real estate agreement as the Founding Document of the Nation and that They will attempt to write the bloody thing into any new Constitution – good luck with that …
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July 10, 2012 8:09pm
wiseowl

I think it shows how for years,possibly since Palmer and the Principles debacle, we have been in a state of flux with no-one willing to sort it out.
It’s d-day.
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July 10, 2012 8:09pm
mikenmild

Oh dear, imagine having to postpone these sales for years. The government might actually be better off fiscally as a result – the horror!
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July 10, 2012 8:10pm
philu

“….anyone who questions that, has to answer why the issue has never been raised in the decades before, cause it hasn’t…”

because maori were relaxed about the waterways being used for the common good…being owned by the state..

..foreign-shareholders/local-elites owning/exploiting those assets..

..is not in the common good…

..i would submit that is the glaring difference..

.(.and of course..once sold..they are gone forever…)

..and really..that is utter madness…to do that..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 8:12pm
mikenmild

‘New Zealand continues the take such an ancient and fucking badly-worded real estate agreement as the Founding Document of the Nation’
Unfortunately, the Treaty with all its flaws is our founding document, so you might just have to live with that. On the plus side, it is not the sum total of our constitution which, like all constitutions, continues to evolve to suit changing circumstances.
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July 10, 2012 8:12pm
Steve (North Shore)

“local-elites owning/exploiting those assets..”

… you mean Ngai Tahu? ….
…the most elite in the land …
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July 10, 2012 8:16pm
wiseowl

M&m.It’s not the fact there is a document,there is no agreed understanding of what it means.
Clearly today I felt nutters JT and Silly Willy were of the opinion that since 1840 Mali own everything and that is their starting point.
It’s not tyhe way I see it.
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July 10, 2012 8:18pm
philu

“..Which puts your idea in conflict with Maori…”

how so..?

are you unable to grasp/comprehend the basic fact/difference that i am not talking about selling currently state-owned assets..

..i am talking about nationalising-lite/m.o.m-ing industries like gambling/alcohol..(as just two examples..)

..comprende..?

so no ‘conflict with maori’ there i think..eh..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 8:20pm
Steve (North Shore)

backtracking by changing the subject to alcahol and gambling, waste of time from hereon in, off on the alcohol tangent to divert attention from the hypocritical posts
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July 10, 2012 8:26pm
bhudson

The government might actually be better off fiscally as a result – the horror!

Oh yes. Who gives a damn about our kids’ learning? Or our small and medium businesses?

Yes, that’s right. We don’t need to invest in growing the country and the prosperity of our people. No – we can bask in the indirect taxation of dividends from power companies coming from the profits of them charging the domestic economy.

Great. They have grown our economy how? They have contributed, positively, to our balance of payments, how? They have invested in the infrastructure to help our children and grandchildren prosper in the future, how?
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July 10, 2012 8:30pm
philu

s.n.s @ 8.26….

..good grief..!

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 8:32pm
Other_Andy

@leftyliberal

Didn’t read far enough….

Wind farms are no longer eligible for carbon credits, although some developers have yet to collect the credits they were granted under the PRE. The last round of the PRE was in 2004. Wind farms will not receive a free allocation of carbon credits under the Emissions Trading Scheme. Wind farms are built today only if they can generate electricity at a cost that is competitive with other forms of generation.

http://windenergy.org.nz/nz-wind-farms/operating-wind-farms/tararua

Good to hear that is the case in New Zealand at the moment.
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July 10, 2012 8:35pm
Pete George

mikenmild – what are your views on water rights and water ownership?
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July 10, 2012 8:35pm
Steve (North Shore)

You are far too fuckung stoned to sort your conflicting posts out, don’t ask me to do it for you.

You were taking the piss one way or the other, don’t fuck me around
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July 10, 2012 8:38pm
Steve (North Shore)

Now back to this water thing.
When the water has passed down the ancestral waterways to lakes and rivers then to the sea, it will disperse Worldwide.
So at what stage is it not OWNED by MAORI and becomes owned by another Indigenous money grabbing people?
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July 10, 2012 8:45pm
Steve (North Shore)

Example:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/28/us-usa-river-washington-idUSBRE83R0DX20120428

Goodbye Waikato River as we know it, goodbye Lake Karapiro, goodbye rowing in New Zealand; just because Maori want the waterways and water.
Phuck
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July 10, 2012 8:49pm
mikenmild

Is water property, or not? It seems to me that it has many of the attributes of things that we have no trouble in treating as private property, like trees or minerals. To the extent that water obviously cannot be controlled in the same way as other property it also has attributes of things that cannot be owned, like the air, although we well wish to regulate its use.
I can’t see any real difficulty with a proposition that the aboriginal peopled owned all of the resources of the country, including the water. At some stage, the right to control the use of water has transferred to central and local government, which attempt to regulate it in the public interest. The question at issue is how that transfer of control was effected.
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July 10, 2012 8:57pm
philu

“..Goodbye Waikato River as we know it, goodbye Lake Karapiro,..”

..where are they going..?

..i mean..following yr logic…we’d be flogging lake taupo off to foreign ownership..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 8:59pm
Steve (North Shore)

““..Goodbye Waikato River as we know it, goodbye Lake Karapiro,..”

..where are they going..?”

Good point Mr Ure, they are going nowhere, just like the parts of the State Owned Enterprises. The 49% shares are up for sale but the ownership stays as does the physical asset.

Good to see that you understand the concept.
Now let’s go back to your new idea, explain it. Some say once sold it is lost forever, you explain with your expertise please
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July 10, 2012 9:07pm
Steve (North Shore)

I reckon your best bet is to invest, buy some shares Mr Ure.
Contact WINZ, I’m sure they have a list of Brokers who discount for those on a Benifit
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July 10, 2012 9:10pm
Steve (North Shore)

I do believe you have been handed your arse on a plate again Mr Ure, I will wait for my demerits when you sook
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July 10, 2012 9:12pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘Steve (North Shore) (2,862) Says:
July 10th, 2012 at 8:38 pm
You are far too fuckung stoned to sort your conflicting posts out, don’t ask me to do it for you.

You were taking the piss one way or the other, don’t fuck me around’

Confusion between a keyboard and real life.
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July 10, 2012 9:12pm
Steve (North Shore)

@ Nostalgia,
There is no real life for Mr Ure, it is just a fantasy about a blog that he calls work. He then uses other blogs to link.
Nobody comments on his blog, he is prostituting himself here, a slut in blog etiquette
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July 10, 2012 9:19pm
philu

“.Now let’s go back to your new idea, explain it..”

i already did..

what bit(s) didn’t you understand..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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July 10, 2012 9:22pm
Nostalgia-NZ

It’s a free country Steve.
I think you’ve made your point many times, probably no need to be anxious about that. Certainly no need to get upset.
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July 10, 2012 9:23pm
Steve (North Shore)

Those ‘bits’ would be the ‘bits’ that only you understand. Nobody else does.
Later, I start at 7am, you start a 5am, but I WORK
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July 10, 2012 9:26pm
thedavincimode

testing, testing …

“..May I suggest a quick IQ test when logging into Kiwiblog? ..”

wouldn’t testing if knuckles drag on the ground while walking be a more effective filter..?

Hmmm. Gratuitous, unprovoked and flagrant insult of everyone who vists these pages. Gotta be worth a ticket.

But how would he respond to the suggestion that he is simply a lying, leeching, bludging, drug-fucked criminal non-man, perennial failure and self-professed chronic masturbator who hides behind a teenager’s trousers while people worse off than him work to support him, and who has never done an honest thing, let alone day’s work, in his entire pointless life and who will go to his grave a lazy pointless little piece of low excrement-styled shit, respond to any criticism of himself?

Grosse Point waits.

[DPF: 50 demerits]
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July 10, 2012 9:59pm
Viking2

Key’s stand on water insult to us all – Maori Party
TRACY WATKINS AND KATE CHAPMAN
Last updated 05:00 11/07/2012

The Maori Party is accusing Prime Minister John Key of inflaming a row over Maori water claims after the Waitangi Tribunal heard his comments could spark “race riots”.

Likening the row to the divisive foreshore and seabed debate, Maori Party co-leaders Pita Sharples and Tariana Turia yesterday said Mr Key’s comment that the Government might choose to ignore the findings of the Waitangi Tribunal over water rights was “an insult to all of us”.

Dr Sharples said he was seeking an urgent meeting with Mr Key to discuss his comments and acknowledged it had inflamed emotions over the issue.

“I was in WHANGAREI… and all the Maori there signalled to me they were very, very unhappy with that comment.”

Here’s the good thing about that.

http://screencast.com/t/foPUwHDYAoy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7256683/Keys-stand-on-water-insult-to-us-all-Maori-Party
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July 11, 2012 6:42am

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