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June 29, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 June 2012

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Colville

Where is everyone?
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June 29, 2012 8:07am
Lance

Kim Dotcom the 3rd most famous NZer?
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June 29, 2012 8:07am
barry

The police are starting to look like keystone cops.

ACC used them as bit players to put pressure on Pulmer (and ACC should be charged with wasting police time but wont be)

And now the Kim Dotcom ruling shows that the leadership are probably illiterate and a bit stupid.
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June 29, 2012 8:11am
Pete George

Someone calling themselves “colin” has posted at The Standard:

“David Garrett” Alias “BIG BRUV”, “the most disliked person in Kaukapakapa”.

http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-29062012/comment-page-1/#comment-488385

There’s as much chance of big bruv being David Garrett as there is of The Standard moderation being fair and balanced.

Outing an indentity – even when wrong – is stated as a major crime at The Standard, and this has been pointed out as a transgression in comments, but so far no action has been taken. This is a far more blatant offence than several people have been banned for in the last couple of days there.
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June 29, 2012 8:12am
Fletch

Chrome browser now available for iPhone and iPad.
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June 29, 2012 8:13am
Colville

PG, you expect a level playing field and fairness at The Standard?
I see the joking has started early here 🙂
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June 29, 2012 8:25am
Scott Chris

Smoking “vaccine” blocks nicotine in brains of mice

Smokers could one day be immunised against nicotine so they gain no pleasure from the habit, according to researchers in the US.

They have devised a vaccine that floods the body with an antibody to assault nicotine entering the body.

So you can smoke to look cool as a kid without getting hooked. Great!
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June 29, 2012 8:25am
Keeping Stock

@ Pete – I’ve been banned by Lynn Prentice for criticising the tardy moderation over at The Standard. Being critical of the moderators is far more of a hanging offence than inciting violence, defamation and “outing” of commeters, it would seem.
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June 29, 2012 8:26am
Scott Chris

PG, you’ve become a Standard stalker.
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June 29, 2012 8:29am
Lipo

I really don’t know why you guys head over to that place. You know what is going to happen before you get there yet still turn up.
When I first visited there a year or so ago I was shocked that people with this rational of thinking still lived in New Zealand. I thought it better to leave them to it in their cave and look around some where else. Certainly makes the day more positive
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June 29, 2012 8:32am
immigant

Turia got her ass handed to her this morning on NR by some big wig from the Women’s Refuge association. Blatantly said that Turia knew everything and did not care. Interesting how this will pan out. I recon one of Turia’s extended ‘whanau’ ran teh refuge. I bet you.
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June 29, 2012 8:32am
db..

Griff, Where are you?

http://thegwpf.org/opinion-pros-a-cons/6067-andrew-mckillop-whatever-happened-to-climate-change-crisis.html

db..
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June 29, 2012 8:34am
TheContrarian

Good stuff USA…I don’t like Obama much but this transcends politics

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/7191171/US-Supreme-Court-upholds-health-law
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June 29, 2012 8:37am
Tauhei Notts

Immigrant;
We have a a bet, but I want odds of 50 to one in my favour.
I need odds like that when betting against a racecourse certainty.
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June 29, 2012 8:39am
immigant

@Tauhei Notts

Not sure if you are trolling me or agreeing. I think you are agreeing.

New headline for the Huruld if it had the balls to investigate. “Nepotism – New Zealand, we have it!”
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June 29, 2012 8:41am
graham

I agree, Lipo. I know Pete’s rationale for frequenting The Standard, but I long ago gave it away.

I found it a nasty, bitter, sad little corner of the Internet. It is very negative, and when I did read it I found myself thinking that some of the regulars were so bitter and depressed that sooner or later they’d commit suicide.
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June 29, 2012 8:41am
TheContrarian

@Graham

The Standard has some truly awful people on it. I have grudging respect for couple of them but once identified on The Standard as “someone who disagreed with what I just said” then you are forever questioned, challenged and ad hom’ed over the simplest of disagreements
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June 29, 2012 8:46am
Keeping Stock

The Dotcom fiasco is not the NZ Police’s finest hour. Whilst Peter Marshall was an outstanding choice as replacement Commissioner for Howard Broad, there’s clearly still a lot of work to be done, and it seems that the Police may also have been badly advised by Crown Law.

That said, I’m still not convinced that Dotcom is nothing more than a rich eccentric; but if the Police are going in on a hunt for evidence, it must be done by the book.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/dotcom-fiasco.html
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June 29, 2012 8:46am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

The Standard is a circle jerk of idiots slapping each other on the back for a job well done. The issue for them is they are a miniority and should be ignored.
PG you seem to expect a diffenrent outcome when you visit, I’m not sure who is more the idiot, them or you.
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June 29, 2012 8:50am
Colville

The Standard has its place in the world if only to make you very happy that you dont/wont/cant think like that.

I love the way Lynn”boy with a girls name” Prentice slaggs off your comments from a position of moderation and if you disagree with him he bans you.
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June 29, 2012 8:50am
Pete George

It’s like when Redbaiter was a regular menace here – if no one stands up to them they keep throwing crap. Speaking up can make a difference.

I was just going to give an example, no one responded to my queries about disappearing comments on Red Alert but suddently this morning I could comment there again. Except that just now my second comment which went up for a few minutes has disappeared.

But the campaign for open dialogue will continue. Clare Curran does support it, sometimes. Maybe that will eventually apply to her blog.
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June 29, 2012 8:51am
Scott Chris

I have grudging respect for couple of them but once identified on The Standard as “someone who disagreed with what I just said” then you are forever questioned, challenged and ad hom’ed over the simplest of disagreements

Contrarian, the quality of discourse is possibly highest at Public Address, but somehow mud-wrestling on Kiwiblog is more fun.
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June 29, 2012 8:52am
Mark

Parata at a meeting with school trustees has admitted that National standards data is imperfect but wants league tables as parents have a right to know.

Parents already get the data on their child but that aside it beggars belief that this government is pushing league tables hard when the can not put in a proper national standards programme.

I support the concept of National standards, I ambivalent about league tables but I am dead against league tables based on poor data as they will simply be misleading and place unreasonable pressures on schools to simply fudge the data.

It is lunacy that National Standards are not independently moderated. At least NCEA has that when league tables are made for secondary schools.

I tend to think this is more about parents whose children go to upper decile schools being able to beat their chests than any real desire to help kids.
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June 29, 2012 8:54am
TheContrarian

@Colville

I remember my first meeting with Lynn…
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June 29, 2012 8:56am
Keeping Stock

@ SGTH and Pete George – then you get this kind of comment on the very same Standard thread:

vto 8
29 June 2012 at 8:05 am

I reckon Gerry Browlee has pretty much turned himself into a joke. Suggesting that people should not inhabit red zone houses and instead pay squillions to selfish landlords or live in cars and tents etc is just plain dumb.

Get this… there are countless absolutely fine houses in the red zone. Remember that these areas are zoned red becuase of land damage, NOT because of house damage. Of course many are wrecked and many are broken but there are even more many that are absolutely fine. Warm, sheltered, safe.

Why the fuck does the bozo not want people to inhabit them? I betcha it will be for other reasons – such as cause him political problems in trying to get the people out later. It will be all about that, and his political situation.

Brownlee deserves complete contempty for this and people will be moving in and telling him to shove a broken house up his f%#@ing fat arse. Prick.

So; looking beyond the ad-hom, vto seems to be suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable to go and live, without authorisation and rent-free, in property that is owned by someone else. Isn’t that taking the old socialist mantra of “what’s yours is mine” to extremes?
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June 29, 2012 8:57am
hj

What nerve has David Garrett hit?
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June 29, 2012 8:58am
hj

Catholic Church opposes contraception in Philipines
“In an interview, CBCP–Episcopal Commission on Family and Life executive secretary Fr. Melvin Castro said the Catholic Church will remain opposed to the government’s efforts to proliferate family planning devices, believing it to be a real effort to control life.

“Contraceptives, by their very nature, are for population control. So let us not invoke maternal deaths as reasons for pushing for population control,” Castro said.”
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/breaking-news/2012/06/19/priest-scores-doh-masking-population-control-anew-227619
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June 29, 2012 9:06am
Scott Chris

vto seems to be suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable to go and live, without authorisation and rent-free, in property that is owned by someone else.

Not that I agree with his conclusions, but I don’t think vto is suggesting that at all. I think he’s saying it’s safe to live in your own house if it’s safe but red zoned rather than, say, a tent.
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June 29, 2012 9:09am
RRM

That’s not a very flattering article about David Garrett…

But then, the media coverage in the news about structural engineering issues since the Chch earthquakes has shown me that you shouldn’t take anything the news media presents too seriously… The info is probably about 45% correct, 20% wrong and 35% irrelevant, and the junior news boys and girls won’t hesitate to use the 35% and the 20% to draw sweeping conclusions that would be almost funny, if they weren’t so tragically farcical..

I am pretty certain DG is not Big Bruv, the two of them are clearly kindred spirits but there are fundamental differences in their writing styles; you can’t fake that unless you are very very good.
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June 29, 2012 9:12am
jims_whare

The best thing about The Standard, is it is a meeting place for all the activist left loonies in this country. Hopefully the GCSB monitors the site and records all the IP addresses of all the left nut commentators.

They can keep track of the nutters so there is no repeat of the Eurewera scenario.
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June 29, 2012 9:14am
TheContrarian

@Jim

I don’t think any of those people at The Standard have the courage of their convictions. Internet tough guys.
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June 29, 2012 9:19am
Keeping Stock

Rafael Nadal exits Wimbeldon in the second round, beaten in five sets by Lukas Rosol. Already the BBC is claiming that the “draw has opened up for Andy Murray”.

But there’s not mother way to say it; Raffa got Rosoled!
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June 29, 2012 9:22am
MT_Tinman

RRM (4,875) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 9:12 am

I am pretty certain DG is not Big Bruv, the two of them are clearly kindred spirits but there are fundamental differences in their writing styles; you can’t fake that unless you are very very good.

The fact that they live in different places, look different, have different families and different names and occupations suggest you may be correct.
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June 29, 2012 9:23am
David Garrett

I dont THINK I am Big Brother…but then things are so confusing these days…

I wonder if it’s coincidental that this is happening a day or two after the pestilience was lifted here?
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June 29, 2012 9:28am
Other_Andy

@TheContrarian

“Good stuff USA…I don’t like Obama much but this transcends politics”

No it doesn’t. It is another powergrab by the federal government, another (As SCOTUS stated) tax. While Obama supporters might think this is a victory for them, I wonder….
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June 29, 2012 9:34am
TheContrarian

@Other_Andy

Yeah, fuck looking after people who can’t afford to pay hundreds of dollars for medication after their insurance company drops them when it is is discovered they had cancer before the signed their coverage therefore it comes under a “pre-existing condition”
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June 29, 2012 9:37am
Brian Smaller

Contarian – correct me if I am wrong but the Supreme court ruled that Obamacare was a tax and that it was constitutional for the federal government to levy taxes. I think that is as far as it goes – until it gets repealed. The White House has spent the last four years DENYING it was a tax.
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June 29, 2012 9:40am
Manolo

Obama, poster child for an entitlement society, taxes across the board, and increasing government intervention.
Let’s hope this false messiah is defeated in November.
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June 29, 2012 9:41am
KiwiGreg

Well at least they can stop calling it “insurance”
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June 29, 2012 9:43am
KiwiGreg

@ Manolo fingers crossed but expectations low
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June 29, 2012 9:43am
TheContrarian

@Brian

“The White House has spent the last four years DENYING it was a tax.” That is true.
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June 29, 2012 9:43am
Viking2

Keeping Stock (7,793) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 8:46 am

The Dotcom fiasco is not the NZ Police’s finest hour. Whilst Peter Marshall was an outstanding choice as replacement Commissioner for Howard Broad, there’s clearly still a lot of work to be done, and it seems that the Police may also have been badly advised by Crown Law.

That said, I’m still not convinced that Dotcom is nothing more than a rich eccentric; but if the Police are going in on a hunt for evidence, it must be done by the book.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/dotcom-fiasco.html

Well not even graceful in defeat then.
For someone who professes s right wing sympathies you exhibit plenty of socialist attitudes.

The question of the day should and must be which Judge signed the faulty search warrants and is that judge resigning forthwith?

The second Question must surely be what did the Attorney General Know and what did he sanction and who in Cabinet also knew?
Both go to the core of this.

And of course;
When can we expect someone from Crown Law to fall on their sword and when can we expect the current American ambassador to quit for his part?

Perhaps Winkleman H could bend her mind to requesting the answers to those questions. After all they were complicit, one would assume,in requesting the Police to break the Law.

One can have little confidence in a Crown Law Dept. that failed so badly with its advice and even less when the advice is taken up by and Attourney General who is a lawyer and is the defender of Law in NZ.

Lets have some answers and some resignations ala ACC style.
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June 29, 2012 9:44am
Weihana

Other_Andy (1,688) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 9:34 am

@TheContrarian

“Good stuff USA…I don’t like Obama much but this transcends politics”

No it doesn’t. It is another powergrab by the federal government, another (As SCOTUS stated) tax. While Obama supporters might think this is a victory for them, I wonder….

You another one of those people that’s never going to need healthcare? 🙂

The US is plagued by a populace that waits till the last minute to address their health issues before going bankrupt because they can’t afford the costs.
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June 29, 2012 9:47am
Other_Andy

@TheContrarian

“Yeah, fuck looking after people who can’t afford to pay hundreds of dollars for medication after their insurance company drops them when it is is discovered they had cancer before the signed their coverage therefore it comes under a “pre-existing condition”

First, expletives don’t give your arguments more weight.
Secondly, try reading your own statement and then mine again.
You argue that this “…transcends politics”. Well, I have news for you, it doesn’t.
You might think it “transcends politics” but that doesn’t make it so…..
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June 29, 2012 9:48am
TheContrarian

“First, expletives don’t give your arguments more weight.”
Yeah but it makes me feel like a big man

“Secondly, try reading your own statement and then mine again.”
No.

“You argue that this “…transcends politics”. Well, I have news for you, it doesn’t.”
Heathcare for those who can’t afford it should transcend politics. Even though this is a little bit of a half assed attempt.

“You might think it “transcends politics” but that doesn’t make it so…..”
As above (I don’t think this decision at all ‘transcends’ politics but fixing the problem should)
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June 29, 2012 9:51am
Weihana

Brian Smaller (3,600) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 9:40 am

Contarian – correct me if I am wrong but the Supreme court ruled that Obamacare was a tax and that it was constitutional for the federal government to levy taxes. I think that is as far as it goes – until it gets repealed. The White House has spent the last four years DENYING it was a tax.

I would agree with the SCOTUS, it’s a tax. But the administration also has a point in that it is their position that the “tax” will make the system work more efficiently and that everyone needs healthcare. But the administration is handicapped by a toxic political climate in which taxes are viewed as inherently bad because the government never does anything of value (unless it’s invading a foreign country).
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June 29, 2012 9:57am
TheContrarian

“because the government never does anything of value (unless it’s invading a foreign country).”

Or stopping woman from making decisions about their own bodies.
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June 29, 2012 9:58am
RightNow

Eric Holder voted to be held in contempt of congress:

The GOP-led House voted Thursday to hold Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for failing to provide key information pertaining to Operation Fast and Furious, making Holder the first sitting Cabinet member to be held in contempt.
The vote was 255 to 67. Seventeen Democrats joined the majority of Republicans in voting yes. GOP Rep. Dan Lipinski voted not present, and 65 Democrats left the floor before the vote.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/28/house-holds-holder-contempt/#ixzz1z7z2myQY
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June 29, 2012 9:59am
tom hunter

Seventeen Democrats joined the majority of Republicans in voting yes.

So it’s bipartisanship in action as Democrats and Republicans join together to do the right thing and rise above politics.

Excellent.

Presumably this will be added to the discussion about that 5-4 SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare – as examples of sober and judicious thinking – not like those “controversial” and “partisan” 5-4 decisions that went against left-wing ideas after “bitter” fights that divided and demoralised the country. The ones that the US left was having a melt-down about yesterday. Today apparently all is sweetness and light about SCOTUS for the first time in years – because the left got what it wanted. I guess the Supreme Court is legitimate after all. Funny how that happens.
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June 29, 2012 10:17am
Other_Andy

@TheContrarian

“Or stopping woman from making decisions about their own bodies.”

Do you really buy into this left-wing group identity propaganda or are you just contrarian for contrarian sake?
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June 29, 2012 10:23am
Manolo

More taxes in the US: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/28/curl-roberts-to-the-rescue-for-romney/
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June 29, 2012 10:26am
RightNow

“65 Democrats left the floor before the vote.” – Fast
““What is happening here is shameful,” said Pelosi” -Furious
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June 29, 2012 10:27am
TheContrarian

@Other_Andy

Sorry, I take you don’t think that several US states are committing sustained attacks on the availability of birth control and abortion.
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June 29, 2012 10:28am
Keeping Stock

@ Viking2 – I was listening to Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB between 8.30 and 9am. He read out an e-mail from someone who clearly knew quite a lot about the case. It sounds as though Crown Law leaned on the Police to execute the search warrants, even though senior police had doubts over the legitimacy of the warrants.

I agree that questions need to be answered, and I am sure that is already happening behind the scenes. But as far as Dotcom goes, the fact that illegal search warrants were used to search his property does not automatically absolve him of any guilt. Do not forget that a Grand Jury in the US handed down indictments against him and others involved in Megauploads and related companies, based on an extensive investigation. Those indictments were handed down BEFORE his property in New Zealand was raided. He still has a case to answer in the US; that is a statement of fact, not an expression of being graceful or otherwise in defeat.
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June 29, 2012 10:32am
Weihana

tom hunter,

One only needs to emphasize the partisan nature of the decision when it’s the wrong decision. 🙂
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June 29, 2012 10:39am
Weihana

Keeping Stock,

Do not forget that a Grand Jury in the US handed down indictments against him and others involved in Megauploads and related companies, based on an extensive investigation.

I wouldn’t hold much faith in the intelligence or competence of your average Joe Idiot who sits on a grand jury. Especially when they hear one side of a story.
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June 29, 2012 10:42am
Weihana

Keeping Stock,

He still has a case to answer in the US; that is a statement of fact, not an expression of being graceful or otherwise in defeat.

True. But that depends on the outcome of the extradition process and that “case” is based on an untested and imaginative interpretation of the law.
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June 29, 2012 10:45am
Scott Chris

The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld most of President Obama’s health care overhaul law, saying it was authorized by Congress’s power to levy taxes. The vote was 5 to 4, with Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. joining the court’s four more liberal members.

The whole idea that a judge could be liberal or conservative makes no sense to me.
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June 29, 2012 10:46am
TheContrarian

“The whole idea that a judge could be liberal or conservative makes no sense to me.”

In the US everything is either liberal or conservative, socialism or capitalism, communism or authoritarianism.
A political structure of extremes.

(I know I am generalising.)
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June 29, 2012 10:48am
Other_Andy

@TheContrarian

“Sorry, I take you don’t think that several US states are committing sustained attacks on the availability of birth control and abortion.”

I suppose you are hinting at the requirement for ultrasounds before abortions? Your statement can be reversed as in “Several US states are trying to protect the rights of the unborn child and are trying to prevent women from making uninformed decissions.” You can either be for or against this but calling this an “attack on the availability abortion” is untrue and not based on facts.
As for the “attack on the availability of birth control”, this is completely untrue. Nobody wants to limit the availability of birth control as in contraception. Some Americans (Don’t have the numbers) just think that if people want to use contraception, they should pay for it themselves. They don’t want to pay for other people’s contraception……
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June 29, 2012 10:48am
Pete George

Say you’re with me…

This is a good day for millions of Americans who can continue to benefit from the protections and economic security provided by the Affordable Care Act.

While the Supreme Court’s decision should put to rest the debate over health care, Mitt Romney and the Republicans in Congress just can’t take yes for an answer.

My opponent said a short while ago that the first thing he would try to do as president is repeal the health care law. We can’t allow that to happen. So we have to win this election.

Say you’re with me on the Affordable Care Act:

http://my.democrats.org/This-Decision

Thank you for all that you do.

Barack

Authentic email just received. But I don’t do anything there.
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June 29, 2012 10:52am
Nostalgia-NZ

Keepingstock 10.32

Following that line of argument you end up with a situation that the upholders of the law can break it when it suits them, ‘even the police has misgivings’. So that a party on one side having allegedly broken the law are prosecuted by the party that have broken the law. I think you need to work on that, particularly the ‘absolved’ from guilt part. Like how you prove ‘alleged’ guilt by illegal acts from which the first party can’t be absolved from, in your view, anyway.
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June 29, 2012 10:54am
KH

Where is DPFs comment on Turia’s apparent fibbing about the so called ‘refuge’.
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June 29, 2012 10:55am
KiwiGreg

“the fact that illegal search warrants were used to search his property does not automatically absolve him of any guilt. ”

No but may taint the admissability of evidence gathered during the illegal search.
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June 29, 2012 10:59am
TheContrarian

““attack on the availability abortion” is untrue and not based on facts.”

Apart from the lone abortion clinic in Mississippi which is now facing shut down after layer upon layer of law is applied to restrict and rescind access to abortion.

“Several US states are trying to protect the rights of the unborn child and are trying to prevent women from making uninformed decissions.”

By insisting the have an ultrasound shoved inside them? Interesting.
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June 29, 2012 11:00am
Scott Chris

Sorry, I take you don’t think that several US states are committing sustained attacks on the availability of birth control and abortion.

Not that I disagree with your point, but I think that the way in which the policy is characterized as being a ‘War on Women’ is as inane as the conservative claim that the real ‘War on Women’ is coming from Democrats against conservative women and unborn women.

I mean, you either buy into that partisan crap or you don’t but it’s a shame so many are blind to their own partisan crap.
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June 29, 2012 11:02am
TheContrarian

“Not that I disagree with your point, but I think that the way in which the policy is characterized as being a ‘War on Women’ is as inane as the conservative claim that the real ‘War on Women’ is coming from Democrats against conservative women and unborn women.”

Agree
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June 29, 2012 11:09am
tom hunter

One only needs to emphasize …

It’s more the nature of the “emphasize”.

I’ve read plenty of Republican opinions over the years that castigated the SCOTUS for one decision or another – but when it comes to the left disagreeing with them it’s the full range of angry-eyes emotional meltdown – and not from run-of-the-mill clowns nobody has heard of but people like James Fallows. Did you see his hysteria the other day? He imagined a GOP “coup” via the Supreme Court, starting with a 5-4 decision by extremist right-wing judges that puts a hardline conservative in power that enables more conservative judges to be put on the court that overturns the great caring legislation of the age and yada, yada, yada ….

Insanity from people who are almost always proclaimed as not insane. Presumably he, Reich, and a whole other bunch of Democrat luminaries are sober again today.
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June 29, 2012 11:12am
F E Smith

So I have a question for everybody. Why is it that when legal aid costs go up after the Government widens the eligibility criteria, the Minister of Justice decides that the system is being rorted and criminal lawyers who accept legal aid assignments are fraudsters, and is happy to say that repeatedly, but when Crown Solicitor’s costs go up by 60% in 5 years, despite only a 2% increase in prosecutions, that is ok but we have to try harder to get costs back to 2009 levels?

When is the Minister of Justice going to accuse the Crown Solicitors of rorting the system? Of being fraudsters? When are we going to have the Minister tell us that he is going to set up a Public Prosecutions Office? Or are we ok with Crown prosecutors rorting the system but not happy when defence lawyers get more income for doing more work?

Consider this: the Crown Solicitors rates are reviewed on a regular basis and have been subject to raises often. Legal Aid rates have have one raise in the last 15 years and have now been subject to a 10% cut, which means we are at similar rates as were paid in 1992.
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June 29, 2012 11:22am
Keeping Stock

@ KiwiGreg; and that is the point I was making to Viking2. The Grand Jury in the US had already issued indictments against Dotcom before his NZ property was searched and he was arrested. It follows then that the US authorities already had a substantial file against him, and so may not necessarily be reliant on any of the evidence gathered during what is now deemed toi be an illegal search at Coatesville.
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June 29, 2012 11:27am
Other_Andy

@TheContrarian

“By insisting the have an ultrasound shoved inside them? Interesting.”

Again, I am not sure if you are serious here or if you are just contrarian for contrarian sake?

First of all, docters don’t ‘shove’ and ultrasound device inside them.
Secondly, compare the insertion of an ultrasound with a smear test. Do women have an brush shoved inside them?
A smear test is just as invasive as an ultrasound.
The smear taker gently opens the vagina with a plastic or metal speculum and carefully sweeps a sample of cells from the surface of the cervix with a thin broom or brush. Part of the ‘war on women’?

While we are at having things shoved up your fannie, lets have a look at an abortion….
Two techniques are commonly used to perform abortions during the first twelve weeks of pregnancy: dilation and curettage (known as D&C) and suction curettage. In the D&C method, the doctor inserts a spoon-shaped instrument called a curette into the uterus. The curette is about 10 inches long and has sharp edges, which the doctor uses to cut the fetus into pieces. Since the uterine opening is not dilating on its own as it would in a natural birth, the doctor has to forcibly dilate it in order to pull or scoop out the pieces. The opening cannot be stretched too far, so the doctor sometimes uses ring forceps to crush the head or other large parts of the fetus before removing them from the womb.
The suction curettage or vacuum aspiration method eliminates the need for the doctor to cut up the fetus and scrape or scoop out the pieces. In this technique a vacuum aspirator is inserted in the uterus. The vacuum aspirator tears the fetus apart and sucks it out of the womb through a tube. This method is most commonly used in large abortion clinics that have the required equipment.

Sounds more serious than a ultrasound doesn’t it?
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June 29, 2012 11:28am
cha

lol, a name that identifies the poster as a penis owner opines.

While we are at having things shoved up your fannie

http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/pre-abortion-ultrasound-the-medical-evidence-and-why-its-important/

There is no medical evidence to support ultrasound laws. They are a waste of taxpayer dollars and do nothing to accomplish the goal of reducing abortion. They also create a dangerous precedent of allowing hypocritical politicians to set unacceptably low standards of medical care based on political goals, religion, and misogyny.
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June 29, 2012 12:07pm
Weihana

F E Smith (1,863) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 11:22 am

So I have a question for everybody. Why is it that when legal aid costs go up after the Government widens the eligibility criteria, the Minister of Justice decides that the system is being rorted and criminal lawyers who accept legal aid assignments are fraudsters, and is happy to say that repeatedly, but when Crown Solicitor’s costs go up by 60% in 5 years, despite only a 2% increase in prosecutions, that is ok but we have to try harder to get costs back to 2009 levels?

Because despite knowing on an intellectual level that we need a justice system to protect against the arbitrary power of the state, deep down people long for mob justice where the “criminals” are tarred and feathered before being dragged through the streets and beheaded in the public square in front of a howling mob.

In other words, the prosecution is always the good guy, the accused is always the bad guy. If he gets off he was lucky and any money given to his lawyer is too much money. 🙂
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June 29, 2012 12:15pm
labours a joke

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8491482/stabbings-and-bottling-leave-four-injured

file no. 1025 : more peaceful natives..
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June 29, 2012 12:25pm
F E Smith

Weihana,

that makes far to much sense for a Friday. You obviously don’t understand what the day is about!

More seriously, that is a damn good summation. A sad conclusion though, isn’t it?
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June 29, 2012 12:26pm
travellerev

Yesterday the vote to support a ban against Depleted Uranium was stalemated because Pita Sharples couldn’t be bothered to show up.
Here is a link to several video’s you might want to watch on the subject and if you feel that this is something you want to share with the people who voted against the ban I suggest you download them and send them to these idiots.
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June 29, 2012 12:28pm
Paulus

In Dotcom I understand that the Police declined to take action as they considered it unlawful.
Crown Law said it was lawful overiding the Police – who went ahead with the full blown action (effectively saying sod you to Crown Law and the FBI). See what happens.
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June 29, 2012 12:31pm
F E Smith

Keeping Stock,

re your 10.32 comment: The application by the US set in motion a legislated series of events. So long as the application was made lawfully, which no doubt it was, then Dotcom was always going to be arrested, the relevant parts of his property seized and an extradition process started. This is nothing to do with Crown Law leaning on the Police, but more about the law enforcement authorities having obligations.

Now, how they went about it is where the problem lies. That ‘dodgy’ warrant was based on an application made to the Court by the Police. Now, as PEB noted yesterday, that application was probably drafted by a Crown lawyer, either at the Auckland Crown Solicitor’s office or at Crown Law in Wellington, but it would have been sworn by a Police officer. The Police/Crown draft the warrant, not the Court. It should have been amended by the DCJ who granted it, but the ultimate responsibility for the defects in the warrant must rest with the Police and the Crown prosecutors. Of course, the seizing of irrelevant items is entirely the responsibility of the Police, and the unlawful copying and exporting of the electronic data can be sheeted home to both Police and Crown lawyers.

I would point out that our Judges and Registrars are not in the habit of looking too closely at search warrant applications. They generally take it at face value and then allow them to be argued over in Court after the fact.

What happens now is that a DCJ examines the US indictment to see if there are charges within that are analagous to NZ criminal offences. If there are, then he can be extradited on those charges. If the US charges do not have NZ counterparts then, from memory, he cannot be exradited. If some do and some don’t, then he is extradited, but may only face the charges that do have NZ counterparts.

That is what I can remember from memory. I have only worked on one extradition, so my recall of the law is a little hazy.
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June 29, 2012 12:38pm
F E Smith

The relevant Act is the Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters Act 1992.

The section for search warrants is s43:

43 Assistance in obtaining article or thing by search and seizure

(1) A foreign country may request the Attorney-General to assist in obtaining an article or thing by search and seizure.

(2) Where, on receipt of a request made under subsection (1) by a foreign country, the Attorney-General is satisfied—

(a) that the request relates to a criminal matter in that foreign country in respect of an offence punishable by imprisonment for a term of 2 years or more; and

(b) that there are reasonable grounds for believing that an article or thing relevant to the proceedings is located in New Zealand,—

the Attorney-General may authorise a constable, in writing, to apply to a District Court Judge for a search warrant in accordance with section 44.

and s44

Search warrants

(1) Any District Court Judge who, on an application in writing made an oath, is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds for believing that there is in or on any place or thing—

(a) any thing upon or in respect of which any offence under the law of a foreign country punishable by imprisonment for a term of 2 years or more has been, or is suspected of having been, committed; or

(b) any thing which there are reasonable grounds for believing will be evidence as to the commission of any such offence; or

(c) any thing which there are reasonable grounds for believing is intended to be used for the purpose of committing any such offence—

may issue a search warrant in respect of that thing.

(2) An application for a warrant under subsection (1) may be made only by a constable authorised under section 43(2).
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June 29, 2012 12:44pm
alex Masterley

Some very interesting comments about Mr Dotcom and his experiences at the hands of the NZ authorities.

All I can say is there is going to be a brawl of heroic proportions as people try to shift the blame from one crown entity to another and possibly the Judge, David McNaughton I think, who issued the warrant.

And then there is the interesting issue of the damages that Mr Dotcom will be entitled to as a consequence of the coversion of his property, the cars, the TV’s the bank deposits etc etc.

I’m pleased that I am able to sit on the sidelines, eat my popcorn, watch the fun and place bets on who will come out on top.
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June 29, 2012 12:47pm
Other_Andy

@cha

“lol, a name that identifies the poster as a penis owner opines.”

A reaction (‘lol’) that identifies the poster as a ‘puerile texting’ fan and a ‘group identity’ (penis owner) devotee. So many possible fallacies in that one short nonsensical statement that I don’t know where to start.
So Dr. cha, you must be a female medical practitioner, as you have an opinion on abortion.
Right……?

“There is no medical evidence to support ultrasound laws. They are a waste of taxpayer dollars and do nothing to accomplish the goal of reducing abortion. They also create a dangerous precedent of allowing hypocritical politicians to set unacceptably low standards of medical care based on political goals, religion, and misogyny.”

Try to improve your reading comprehension cha. First of all, the statement above makes no sense at all. It is a straw man, a contradiction and it doesn’t address the point. The ultrasounds aren’t done for medical reasons and neither are the abortions. There is no evidence that it does or doesn’t reduce abortions. And as for “They also create a dangerous precedent of allowing hypocritical politicians to set unacceptably low standards of medical care based on political goals, religion, and misogyny.”, are you kidding me?
Secondly, if you had read my posts properly you would have found that nowhere do I state that I agree or disagree with the ultrasound or that it will prevent abortions.
I disagree with the left wing ‘war on women’ propaganda slogan and with the language (‘shoved’) and the argument from Contrarian about the invasiveness of an ultrasound as compared with other medical procedures and having an abortion.

But butt in any time you like cha.
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June 29, 2012 12:48pm
Weihana

F E Smith,

Sad because both sides of Parliament appear to be on the bandwagon to reduce the rights of the accused and to institute a presumption of victim-hood on the part of the accuser. Somehow injustice committed by the state is never seen to be as much of an injustice as those crimes committed by individuals.
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June 29, 2012 12:49pm
Viking2

FES. If Judges don’t look at what they are signing and ensure that it meets the test of our Law thn surely the Judges need to upskill themselves and be held responsible for what they sign their name to.
In the past i have advocated Independent Prosecutors and you have rubbished the idea.
Here is a fascinating example of the need to separate and make responsible the functionaries of the system.

And KS here is why the Grand Jury in Virginnia, USA is no better. A compromised Judge and panel of compromised citizens can sign a warrant about anything without any scrutiny nor opposing views. Look where it gets the. Its and odds on position that the case will be dismissed in the States and we shouldn’t forget that the Hong Kong authorities have been blind sided by the FBI in the same way. The Chinese will extract retribution from the FBI for sure. As will some other countries that have been duped and been coerced into acting for the FBI.

No difference between the two jurisdictions.

Like here though no one in the USA system will be made accountable and its odds on the the case is going to be thrown out over there.

Comment was made to that effect last night.
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June 29, 2012 1:05pm
Viking2

alex Masterley (989) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 12:47 pm

Some very interesting comments about Mr Dotcom and his experiences at the hands of the NZ authorities.

All I can say is there is going to be a brawl of heroic proportions as people try to shift the blame from one crown entity to another and possibly the Judge, David McNaughton I think, who issued the warrant.

And then there is the interesting issue of the damages that Mr Dotcom will be entitled to as a consequence of the coversion of his property, the cars, the TV’s the bank deposits etc etc.

I’m pleased that I am able to sit on the sidelines, eat my popcorn, watch the fun and place bets on who will come out on top.

Yep Alex, pop corn and beers are going to be the order of the day.
Will Sian boot this fellows arse for being a rollover?
Will Twinkle toes and his American friend find themselves outed?

Hopefully, The Judiciary will do what it should and shine a spotlight on this type of automatic signing of stuff.
I never sign stuff without asking questions and checking the validity of the answers and that’s what the issue is here.
It of course arises from the conflicted behavoir of lawyers and the argument that they are there to represent their clients and get them off stuff be fair means or foul. NO matter the person may well be guilty. e.g. McDonald As long as they don’t admit guilt the lawyer will spend the Govt.’s money finding a way to extract his client.

there’s no better example than the efforts lawyers go to to get drunk drivers off.
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June 29, 2012 1:16pm
Harriet

“….Or stopping woman from making decisions about their own bodies….”

Given the opportunity – most aborted future women would prefer life in an orphanage.

But that’s the sum total of NZ feminist thought……much less than 9 months.

NZ women stop thinking before abortions……and left wondering for a lifetime afterwards.

Feminism is crap.
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June 29, 2012 1:39pm
grumpyoldhori

Damn this is brutal, what the fuck were the Tories doing in sending a little girl into face the beast of the BBC.
Like a big cat with a tiny mouse.
Jeez, we need a Paxman to deal to all politicians, left,right and center.
Are you incompetent,ouch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bddWaHuxTzc
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June 29, 2012 1:42pm
Carlos

Holy Shit!!!!!

Muslims throw stones at Christian sign holders. Is this a sign of things to come?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJBW49afzg&feature=player_embedded#!
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June 29, 2012 1:50pm
grumpyoldhori

Carlos what the hell is the matter with the dumb religious fuckwits on both sides, why the hell are they not using AR 15s on each other ?
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June 29, 2012 2:04pm
Carlos

@ grumpyoldhori

Ha ha ha ha! That thought had crossed my mind.
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June 29, 2012 2:12pm
F E Smith

V2,

most search warrants are issued by Deputy Registrars, not judges. They are supposed to read them to see if the warrant is justified and ask questions if the need arises, but I have seen them issued by a Deputy Registrar without being read, let alone questioned.

The thing is that we aren’t allowed to actually question the person who issued the warrant nor their reasons for doing so. We can only challenge the basis of the warrant after the fact, which means attacking the application and affidavit, which means the Police have the obligation to ensure that the application will hold up to later scrutiny. Therefore, going by current practice, the fact that the Dotcom one did not hold up means that it was a failure by the people who drafted the application, not so much the judge who granted it.

And we don’t ‘try to get drunk drivers off’. We ensure that the standard of proof is met and that due process is followed. If the drunk driver gets off as a result it is not our fault but whoever stuffed up in gathering the evidence or following procedure. If a person is truly a drunk driver and the rules are followed properly, then there really is no way at all with which to get the charges dismissed, with the exception of drink spiking and automatism.
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June 29, 2012 2:15pm
bhudson

Bloody Asset Sales CIR petition…

My daughter was bailed up in Cuba Mall and asked to sign a form about asset sales:

1. The person did not explain that it was a petition against the Mixed Ownership Model and seeking to force a referendum on ‘asset sales’
2. The person made no effort to ascertain whether or not she is 18 (or an enrolled elector to be more accurate.) There is no way she looks 18 and, at the time she was asked for her signature, she wasn’t (this was a couple of weeks ago.)

If we taxpayers are forced to pay for people to collect signatures for a petition we may very well not endorse, surely we should expect that they will do the job properly and with integrity; in a transparent manner and seeking to verify that the signatory is on then electoral roll.
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June 29, 2012 2:29pm
James Stephenson

Jeez, we need a Paxman to deal to all politicians, left,right and center.

Paxman is the worst kind of bullying, stuck-up, arrogant, pompous, elitist, public schoolboy wanker it’s possible to imagine.

He can’t handle it when anyone refuses to be cowed by his hectoring, he failed big style when he tried it on with the English Defence League lads.
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June 29, 2012 2:42pm
grumpyoldhori

James Stephenson

( Paxman is the worst kind of bullying, stuck-up, arrogant, pompous, elitist, public schoolboy wanker it’s possible to imagine. )

Of course he is, and he dealt to a little public school girl.
Politicians should not be hectored but shown respect, for what ?
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June 29, 2012 3:04pm
Scott Chris

labours a joke (424) Says:
June 29th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8491482/stabbings-and-bottling-leave-four-injured

file no. 1025 : more peaceful natives..

|^^^^^^^^^^^||____
| The STFU Truck |||””‘|””__,_
| _____________ l||__|__|__|)
…|(@)@)”””””””**|(@)(@)**|(@)
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June 29, 2012 3:27pm
James Stephenson

Politicians should be shown the same respect as anyone else, and allowed to answer the fucking question before you start interrupting them…I’d just chin the c***
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June 29, 2012 3:28pm
Other_Andy

@GOH

The main problem is that this “little public school girl” belongs to a party that doesn’t know if it’s Left, Right, Centre, Free Market, Socialist, Pro or Anti Europe etc.
Not difficult to attack someone of a party which doesn’t stand for anything.
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June 29, 2012 3:29pm
labours a joke

http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8491604/elderly-couple-bashed-in-tokoroa

file 1026 ; fuckin scum natives.

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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June 29, 2012 3:43pm
labours a joke

Truth hurts doesnt it scottchris. I await the day one of your family gets bashed and maimed by a similar scumbag . I too will brush it off and then procede to tell you to harden up. Nancyboy..give us a kiss.
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June 29, 2012 3:47pm
F E Smith

laj,

My wife is part-Maori. She is a member of Ngai Tahu through Te Runanga o Moeraki. She has a bachelors degree and works in a very demanding part of the health care sector. Indeed, she is registered to practise, and has practised, in three different countries.

Is my wife a ‘scum native’? Or is your use of the word ‘native’ superfluous, and instead you should just say ‘scum’?
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June 29, 2012 5:15pm
Luc Hansen

An excellent article on why Australia should stop trying to “deter” desperate from people from making a new life in a land where 1 in 4 were not born in the country.

And where the total number of “boat people” granted asylum last financial year was only 2.6% of total immigration.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/hard-figures-back-case-to-open-gates-20120628-2156z.html
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June 29, 2012 5:23pm

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