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June 15, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 June 2012

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General Debate

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Yvette

Davy Crockett coonskin hat very popular back in the late 1950s, early 60s when we still also had pounds, shillings and Penny’s
and could still say ‘coon’
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June 15, 2012 3:47pm
TheContrarian

“Faith is belief without evidence, I only believe stuff I have evidence to support.”

If you have evidence then you don’t need faith.
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June 15, 2012 3:52pm
mikenmild

He’s pretty bad cha, but if he’s lost his marbles then then not much to be done. One hopes that it is a degree of dementia that means he is under permanent care – wouldn’t like to think he is free to wander around Whanganui.
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June 15, 2012 4:10pm
Don the Kiwi

So, our court system is based in large part on the evidence of witnesses – nothing necessarily empirical about that, just a determination of whether or not the witness is reliable and believable.

So do you , then, accept the statements of reliable witnesses?
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June 15, 2012 4:12pm
Longknives

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7111111/Man-admits-Olivia-Hope-delusion-repugnant

Personally- I think Electroconvulsive treatment should be compulsory for all Watson, Lundy and Bain supporters….
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June 15, 2012 4:13pm
grumpyoldhori

Scott Chris Real political types are those who believe the politicians of their party are just out to serve the public and are not self serving bastards, in fact no MP of their party would ever be self serving.
Politicians have the utter fucking cheek to whine that the public is cynical about politicians.

I blame the education system.
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June 15, 2012 4:18pm
TheContrarian

“So, our court system is based in large part on the evidence of witnesses – nothing necessarily empirical about that, just a determination of whether or not the witness is reliable and believable.
So do you , then, accept the statements of reliable witnesses?”

Sure but a statement from a reliable witness is usually backed up by second hand evidence. If my wife who i consider a reliable witness claims to have seen a UFO and describes what she saw I might not necessarily believe it was UFO because based on her description it might fit better with being a meteor or weather balloon.

But if a reliable witness claims to have seen an Elephant with a pogo stick for a nose then no matter how reliable they are I wouldn’t believe them because no such thing has ever been shown to exist.
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June 15, 2012 4:25pm
thedavincimode

milkymouldy

Presumably there was some point in the judge deciding that on the balance of probabilities he committed the crimes; perhaps as a pre-cursor to locking him up a a general hazzard. But if so, very curious that he might be permitted to wander off free at that point.
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June 15, 2012 4:34pm
Don the Kiwi

Now you’re just being contrary. 🙂
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June 15, 2012 4:39pm
TheContrarian

heh
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June 15, 2012 4:44pm
Keeping Stock

Personally, I think Penny’s got the hots for John Banks.

I never thought I’d say this, but poor Banksie!
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June 15, 2012 4:51pm
Lucia Maria

Grumpyoldhori,

Yes,yes, I know there are far too many women MPs of all parties who should be on a water only diet for three months.

Um, what about the men?
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June 15, 2012 4:52pm
Scott Chris

I blame the education system.

Grumpy, I blame adversarial democracy. (not that I can think of a better system)

Mind you, I agree that if people were better educated, it would force politicians to behave differently.
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June 15, 2012 5:10pm
Nostradamus

Hmmm…

Here’s something that Phil won’t add to his ~~big commercial model news/opinion site~~ [Americans pulled out] ~~news aggregator website~~ [eyesore] copy-and-paste project:

A US man convicted of child abuse for forcing his three grandsons on a gruelling hike in the Grand Canyon was sentenced to 27 months in prison today, the minimum term the judge could have imposed.
…
During trial, defence lawyer Jeffrey Williams portrayed Carlson as an active health nut who had a firm hand and wanted to show the boys the world. Like anyone after a long hike, the boys were tired, hungry and thirsty, but Carlson only allowed the boys to eat healthy food such as tofu, hummus and vegie burgers, Mr Williams said.

Prosecutors told jurors that Carlson deprived the boys of food and water during the hikes. The boys reported that they did get some water, but not always enough, and ate celery and other snacks during the hike.

Oh dear… sounds like they needed some juicy steaks.
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June 15, 2012 5:12pm
nasska

When Redbaiter was having his wee wank earlier on today, sprinkled amongst the spittle were a few legible sentences lamenting the lack of a truly conservative, right wing presence in Parliament. The Great Blogger obviously sees this as proof that NZ has suddenly done a U turn & is heading down the toilet.

I’ve always had an interest in politics & come from a politically aware if not politically active family. While I realise that time has taken its toll on Russell’s meagre collection of braincells some of us have weathered the storm in a somewhat better shape. National is a broad based party & it has never been truly conservative nor far right. Indeed the National Party that I first voted for in 1969 is not unrecognisable from National today.

Poor Red… the Clozapine has taken a heavy toll.
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June 15, 2012 5:15pm
Longknives

Sweet Jesus Nostradamus! Making those kids hike the Grand Canyon was bad enough but forcing them to endure a Vegan diet?? Oh the humanity…(Imagine walking the Grand Canyon in 40deg heat knowing that your reward at the end is not a cold beer but a celery stick..)
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June 15, 2012 5:28pm
thedavincimode

sprinkled amongst the spittle

lol.

Did you catch his little sob as well? I expect he was the little loner at school who always ran to bleat to the teacher. lol

And this from the lunatic who dreams of going down in a hail of bullets fighting the mussie/pinko hordes!!! 😆

What a fuckwit. 🙂
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June 15, 2012 5:43pm
nasska

thedavincimode

He sure disturbed a few electrons today…..unfortunately I missed the fun but tomorrow morning the dayroom computer will be turned on again.

If we can’t have intelligent debate we’ll have to settle for the disintegration of a twisted mind.
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June 15, 2012 5:55pm
Leaping Jimmy

Indeed the National Party that I first voted for in 1969 is not unrecognisable from National today.

Urbanisation + MMP = the removal of the rural powerbase.

This has been deterimental to NZers because farmers are nothing if not pragmatic business people. Hence over the decades we have become gradually more concerned with/captivated by idiotic mental fuck-headed irrelevant PC psychobabble bullshit that idiots who don’t understand who grew up in the cities with the dairy down the road and no sense of real life, cannot tell is fallacious.

This is why for most of the last century, National was the “natural” party of govt. But those days are gone forever. And look what’s happened. The poison has spread beyond the mere Liarbore idiots and now the city folk have gone and spawned the entirely mental, utterly useless and extremely dangerous Gweens, who are the equivalent of the snotweed currently poisoning our rivers, in terms of their effect upon the great NZ body politic.
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June 15, 2012 6:25pm
philu

“..If we can’t have intelligent debate..”

now..that’s funny..!

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 6:25pm
kowtow

I’d like to thank Lucey Hansen for alerting me to that American event,about their army.

After the British army and Royal Navy perhaps the greatest force for democracy in the world ,certainly in the 20 th century.
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June 15, 2012 6:26pm
wat dabney

Indeed, it’s thanks to the Pax Americana that we have enjoyed decades of subsidised easy peace and Kiwis can act like children with their anti-nuclear posturing.
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June 15, 2012 6:28pm
philu

is it ‘gweens’ 2nite..is it twitchy-jim..?

..will you be also treating us to one of yr homophobic-rants/bile-spews later..?

..and fact/reality-check…it is the farmers who are ‘the snotweed’ ruining our waterways..

..literally..really..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 6:29pm
nasska

philu

Something to take your mind off the taste of your lentil & dandelion burger.

http://www.vegetus.org/vegtoon/vegtoon.html
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June 15, 2012 6:30pm
philu

“..Um, what about the men?..”

fine specimans of manhood…all of them…

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 6:33pm
thedavincimode

nasska

He was in amusing form. It’s almost as if he was setting out to lampoon himself. He tried a bit of humour (well, possibly, I could be wrong) tried to be a bit restrained but that didn’t go too well, tried the mandatory shot at spiderman but, sadly ( 🙂 ) – own goal there too. He’s so stupid that I don’t think he realises what he’s actually saying most of the time.

I think the auto gyro must have kicked in because he eventually settled back into his comfort zone (marxist/you’re stupid/I can’t be bothered etc etc). No “knuckle-dragging homo leftist scum” though, although you could almost sense the tension in his fingers as they hovered over the keyboard. But I think the pitiful little bleat to the Headmaster was probably the play of the day.

He doesn’t seem to want to let on how the helium worked.
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June 15, 2012 6:36pm
thedavincimode

The leech has been away for a while. WINZ interview perhaps?
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June 15, 2012 6:36pm
philu

i looked at the tables-turned ones..

..some of them are funny..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 6:41pm
nasska

thedavincimode

I’ll be bitterly disappointed if you can’t wring a “knuckle-dragging homo leftist scum” rant out of him soon. His current restraint can’t last but the longer it is bottled up the better the chance of a nuclear retaliation.

In any case I suspect that the effort he is putting into chasing ‘Sarah’ & pulling her down off the chandelier six times a day may yet prove to be too much.
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June 15, 2012 6:42pm
thedavincimode

Good point. Perhaps he’s just run out of puff. And huff.
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June 15, 2012 6:44pm
Weihana

Leaping Jimmy,

…no sense of real life…

Why is farming “real life” and living in a city not? Why are farmers “pragmatic business people” but people who run retail outlets, large corporations, factories, universities, professional business etc. not?

Farming is certainly an important part of life, but so are the industries that exist in big cities. I would regard the relationship as reciprocal where each benefits from the contributions of the other. Farmers do not produce everything they use on their farm. They do not produce motor vehicles which they use. Many other technologies they use are also produced in large cities. So lets not pretend they are some sort of special class of human being upon which everyone else is dependent. We are all dependent upon each other to produce all the things that makes modern living possible.
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June 15, 2012 6:47pm
thedavincimode

Weihana

You’re point regarding reciprocity is the reason that if farming dispeared, there would be fuck all left. The kick on effect in terms of farming service industries and suppliers, farm processors and downstream value add industries is what actually allows this country to survive. Pity that we actually have to import farm workers because the unemployed people who live here are too lazy to bother with farm work.
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June 15, 2012 6:53pm
nasska

…”So lets not pretend they are some sort of special class of human being upon which everyone else is dependent.”…..

Heresy!!! Farming pays the bills.
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June 15, 2012 6:53pm
Manolo

Worth reading: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/give-us-liberty_646832.html
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June 15, 2012 6:59pm
Weihana

thedavincimode,

Pity that we actually have to import farm workers because the unemployed people who live here are too lazy to bother with farm work.

True, no one is dependent upon a beneficiary too lazy and/or incompetent to do what’s necessary to become self-sufficient.
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June 15, 2012 7:00pm
Other_Andy

And the train wreck called Europe continues.
A perfect example what a’Greens’ and Labour coalition would do to New Zealand.

No more lifeboats left on EU Titanic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ISdTcwC-54&feature=player_embedded

Spain: the beginning of the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GrxHDyXyj8&feature=player_embedded
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June 15, 2012 7:02pm
RRM

Penny Bright:

Your ‘Dodgy John’ website does you no favours. I am no fan of JB at all, but I look at your website and my first though is that anybody who has people like you for enemies deserves a bit of sympathy.
The police are never going to take complaints seriously that are clearly the ravings of an ideological political nutter. I suggest you get yourself a more sensible, professional look, and fast, so that people take you seriously.

Here are some examples to give you a bit of an idea of where you sit within the space you are operating in:

—–

1: Seriously unprofessional, just complete freaking nutters, this person is clearly on drugs but not the right ones, why would anybody waste their time reading this rubbish?
The Hairy Armpit http://thehairyarmpit.blogspot.co.nz/
Apartheid fort New Zealand http://newzeelend.wordpress.com/

2: An unprofessional, paranoid mess with stuff all over the place; and incandescent with impotent rage at all times, just lunatics really:
Truebluenz by redbaiter http://truebluenz.com/
Dad 4 Justice: http://dad4justice.blogspot.co.nz/
Crusader Rabbit: http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/

3: Unprofessional-looking, cluttered page, looks like the work of an angry madman/woman with a chip on his/her shoulder and time on his/her hands, but at least they are not screaming with rage ALL of the time:
The Standard http://thestandard.org.nz/
Yourself: Dodgy John has gone http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/
right wing resistance http://rwrnz.blogspot.co.nz/

4: Quite a smart-looking site, until you read the invective and notice that they actually are just sickos:
http://nzconservative.blogspot.co.nz/

5: Sneering, supercillious arseholes who need a kick in the dick; not as fucked up as 4, but a lot worse than 6:
Bob McThou-Shalt-Not: http://bobmccoskrie.com/
http://pundit.co.nz/blogs/deborah-coddington

6: Crude weirdoes, but reasonably likeable, apart from frequent tourette-like rants:
http://hittingmetalwithahammer.wordpress.com/

7:Smug, ineffectual little arseholes writing for an ego trip, but occasionally post some stuff that is actually worth reading:
http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/
http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.co.nz/

8:Cameron Slater, a category all of his own; pretty rough around the edges but does real research, breaks real stories, influences real politicians and fully worth reading in spite of the slightly deranged levels of spleen:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/

9: Smart, eloquent people who are highly knowledgeable in their field and worth listening to on any subject. Would probably be more widely read if they lowered the tone a bit to attract more of the “hurr hurr, he told that guy to fuck off!” audience:
Public Address: http://publicaddress.net/
Dim Post: http://dimpost.wordpress.com/
Nandor tanczos: http://rasnandor.blogspot.co.nz/
Our glorious host: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/ 😉

I hope this has been of some help…
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June 15, 2012 7:05pm
mikenmild

‘Spain: the beginning of the end’ Surely not: they’re still outright favourites to win the tournament.
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June 15, 2012 7:09pm
Leaping Jimmy

Why is farming “real life” and living in a city not? Why are farmers “pragmatic business people” but people who run retail outlets, large corporations, factories, universities, professional business etc. not?

Weihana the comment is in context of political balance so analyse it in those terms not in terms of: I know exceptions to that general rule. Of course there are exceptions: I’m talking patterns. So….

Cities allow lots of idiots to sit back and imagine: “wouldn’t it be neaty if…” and consequently you get a huge proportion of lefties in cities. Look at Auckland. Look at Wgtn. Recall the Red/Blue maps of the country and look at all the concentrations. It was extremely revealing to me, last election, to look at the sea of blue across almost the entire country last election except in one spot: Wgtn. Why? Wgtn people think that wealth is created by the govt, not by the individual. They would deny they think that, but that voting pattern shows they really do think that. In normal times, both Akld and Chch look like that, as well. And that, my friend due to population distribution, is the election, normally. Just we had the earthquake so this time ChCh was blue (temporarily) and the GFC made Akld blue (also temporarily).

I didn’t invent the phenomena Weihana, I just observe it and from that observation I try to understand it. And I just observe and conclude that if you have a secure job in the city in a faceless corporation somewhere that means you’re not, on average (and yes of course der there are always exceptions, like you and I for example, yes, der, recognise that) but on average, too au fait with what it takes to generate wealth, but you’re terribly au fait with what it takes to consume it, and you think that’s that only side of the equation that exists so you vote accordingly.

It just happens in NZ that farming happens to be the quintessential wealth creation industry, it could have been anything.
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June 15, 2012 7:10pm
Steve (North Shore)

Phark! There must be a dope shortage or someone got their income cut.
Very quiet and that’s a good thing 🙂
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June 15, 2012 7:14pm
philu

i’m waiting for ‘the intelligent debate’ promised by nasska…

..it’ll be a first…eh..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 7:20pm
nasska

philu

It looks like we may have to call off that debate. I’d forgotten that at 6pm the nurses lock away Russell’s computer for the day & give him his meds. By now he’ll be having sweet dreams of standing behind a smoking gun with an army of Indo Aryan commies laying dead at his feet.

There’s always tomorrow.
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June 15, 2012 7:27pm
Weihana

Manolo,

Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama, for example, think in terms of “redistributive fairness.” They are offended by the fact that some individuals have larger pieces of cherry pie than others. They want to divide the pie equally so that every individual receives an equal slice.

I would presume Mr. Continetti has some evidence of this but of course that would be presuming too much. More likely Mr. Continetti possesses some sort of mind-reading device which tells us what the President is really thinking and that despite extending the Bush tax cuts he is in fact the reincarnation of Vladimir Lenin.

It’s worth mentioning that the top marginal tax rate in the US for the years 1944-51 was 91%. Yet these were the good ol days according to conservatives (you know, before the 60s set us on the path towards the apocalypse).

Not that I recommend a return to such a tax rate.
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June 15, 2012 7:28pm
philu

oh..!..silly me..!..i thought you rightwingers were going to have a go at ‘intelligent-debate’…

..i’ve been on the edge of my seat..

..i’ll sit back now…

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 7:40pm
big bruv

So Phool, had a call from WINZ yet?
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June 15, 2012 7:43pm
Leaping Jimmy

oh..!..silly me..!..i thought you rightwingers were going to have a go at ‘intelligent-debate’…

no phil we simply assessed precisely who we were dealing with and…

well…

you know.

“eh?”

(to put it into terms you understand)

because we’re caring conservatives phil, that’s why.

“eh?”
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June 15, 2012 7:43pm
Weihana

philu,

Please note that in order to perceive intelligent debate one does require at least a modicum of intelligence. 🙂
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June 15, 2012 7:45pm
philu

last time it was measured it was 141…

..how big is yours..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 7:51pm
nasska

Six & a half inches.
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June 15, 2012 7:53pm
big bruv

…..last time it was measured it was 141…….

Bullshit.
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June 15, 2012 8:00pm
philu

nah..!..bruv…

..that’s how i know what a dumbarse you are…eh..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 8:03pm
nasska

Making a speech against the proliferation of pornographic
DVDs, the Christian Conservative candidate said, “I rented one of
these discs and was shocked to find by my count, five
acts of oral sex, three of sodomy, a transexual making
love with a dog, and a woman accommodating five men
at once. If elected, I vow that X rated DVDs & tapes such as these will no
longer corrupt the citizens of New Zealand!”

He concluded the fiery denunciation by asking, . . . . . .
“Are there any questions?”

Six people shouted in unison, “Where’d you rent the DVD?”
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June 15, 2012 8:04pm
Steve (North Shore)

Edna tested Phool’s IQ. Found a friend Phool?
I still think Edna is your mum
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June 15, 2012 8:08pm
philu

the child of the corn shows us/confirms what repeated generations of that african sun on white heads does…

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 8:11pm
Steve (North Shore)

🙂 wanker lol
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June 15, 2012 8:12pm
big bruv

Had Edna popped in this evening?
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June 15, 2012 8:12pm
philu

why don’t you go and try to bang out post number 16 for the last year..on yr blog..?

you can’t..’cos you are a dumbarse…eh..?

..all those 15 posts are just mindless mini-rants…

..just like yr comments here..eh..?

..just a one-trick pony..aren’t you..?

..that’s all ya got…eh..?

..ya dumb fuck…

..phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 8:22pm
Steve (North Shore)

“Hi phil I am NOT d4j as you said on kiwiblog, however who is this big bruv wack nutbar. This c##t needs a smacking over. I want his real name mate, can you help me. Is it Graeme Taylor?”

Source unknown, people send me shit.
Yes I am trolling and the resident troll will now start telling lies
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June 15, 2012 8:28pm
philu

edna talks very blokey..

..’mate’..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 8:38pm
Steve (North Shore)

It’s all just a second identity. Drug addicts will do anything to deny and digress.

Next subject is:
Oh something about American Politics? or attack on Afrikaans? or or or,
answering a few if the questions that have been avoided in the last few days?
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June 15, 2012 8:48pm
philu

i think edna has got ginga-hairy legs…

..and wears work-boots…

..those yellow ones…

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 8:58pm
Steve (North Shore)

work boots huh? that means you think Edna works?
You wear pink slippers all day I guess Phool, even at the Library. Good place to hang out, warmer in winter. They have 24/7 acces to the New Lynn Library these days? did not know that
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June 15, 2012 9:09pm
philu

try and lift yr game a bit there..child of the corn…

..eh..?

that’s the best ya got..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:16pm
Steve (North Shore)

Phool carries on with this ‘child of the corn’ I gues he means dumbas hillbilly uneduacated (Speeling intended)
Child of the fucking dope is more Phool’s style – just never grew up an has the mental age of 17, like some smartarse jerk that won’t work so goes to UNI.
Tell us what you learned at UNI Phillip, and what have you done with your TAX payed learnings?
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June 15, 2012 9:30pm
philu

are you getting a bit needled there..child of the corn…?

phillipure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:35pm
Steve (North Shore)

Edna is a false psuedo isn’t it Phool, created by you and even backed up on your blog so I am told.
Such sadness that a drug fucked train wreck will go to for anything to gain attention – even telling lies.
Edna has not been here to defend SO – cover your tracks idiot
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June 15, 2012 9:39pm
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:39pm
philu

heh..!..child of the corn has a brainstorm..

..thinks that for some reason..i’m edna/d4j..

..dumber than a sack of doorknobs..eh..?

..but funny with it..

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:45pm
Steve (North Shore)

hammers, hammers, not fucking doorknobs, you fucking drug crazed fuckwit
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June 15, 2012 9:46pm
philu

are you getting a bit needled there…?..child of the corn..

and..it depends which school you went to..

..(doorknobs is a private school thing…they don’t relate well to ‘hammers’

..far too working class for them..)

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:55pm
wiseowl

So LJ adds a great post at 7.15 and what happens.Nought.No response.
The usual diatribe and unintelligible darts and digs. No wonder red doesn’t bother.
Great link to Farage as well who puts it plainly. We lack politicians that have the balls to stand up and tell it as it is.Here they would be checking to see if everything they said was PC and would have to pass it through wussell and pita before spitting it out.
Things like gays and co-management are of the highest priority here.
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June 15, 2012 9:55pm
philu

then there is that other saying:..’dumber than a clutch of children of the corn’..

..eh..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:57pm
philu

‘wiseowl’ is kind of an oxymoronic blog-name choice…

..for that one..

..eh..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 9:59pm
philu

“..No wonder red doesn’t bother..”

small blessings…eh..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 10:02pm
Yvette

So LJ adds a great post at 7.15 and what happens. Nought. No response.
___________________
No 7.15 post either
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June 15, 2012 10:02pm
Steve (North Shore)

Strange that a Man can be intelligent and not use that brain – just falls into the stupid class, and the TAXPAYER funds him
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June 15, 2012 10:05pm
kowtow

Oh look the anti catholic bigots have nothing to cheer about. No catholic clergy arrested! Nothing to see here move along.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2159263/Scout-leader-retired-teacher-members-Armed-Services-76-arrested-nationwide-paedophile-swoop.html
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June 15, 2012 10:13pm
philu

kow tow..loved yr earlier sneer at another commenter for hiding behind a fake name…and not having the courage to use their real name..

..admirable sentiments..!..with which i agree..

..so..

..yr real name is…?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 10:17pm
kowtow

I have made it a rule not to address you ,as you’re basically an arse ,I’ll make this exception.

the other “commenter” is a blogger, who was attacking another blogger. One anonymous, one not.

I have never questioned any other commenters anonymity,for obvious reasons. Now phil consider yourself priveliged that I have addressed you , now fuck off

eh.
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June 15, 2012 10:38pm
philu

are you getting a bit needled there..cow-tow…?

..and…was it something i said..?

phillip ure whoar.co.nz
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June 15, 2012 10:45pm
big bruv

It is so nice to see Phool and D4J/Edna getting on so well. Apparently Phool is quite happy to have people threaten others with physical violence on his blog.
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June 16, 2012 2:40am
Manolo

Easy votes. It must be election year! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/15/obama-administration-to-offer-immunity-to-younger-immigrants/
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June 16, 2012 5:59am

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