General Debate 4 May 2012

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mikenmild

Woo hoo, GD back on time!
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May 4, 2012 8:02am
Pete George

And Banks back on the rack: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6857142/Dotcom-mans-trip-to-bank-cheque
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May 4, 2012 8:04am
mikenmild

It doesn’t look any better for Banks does it. Hear someone on the wirelss yesterday (Matthew Hooten?) opining that Key could get rid of him, but not till after the Budget is passed.
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May 4, 2012 8:07am
thedavincimode

… oh, you mean that Kim Dotcom. Sorry, I thought you meant someone else …
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May 4, 2012 8:11am
Yvette

The crux as to whether John Banks is telling the truth or not –

… The charges followed a high-profile arrest in January, after which Mr Banks said he hardly knew the internet tycoon.
He said his contact with Dotcom was limited to a total of 20 minutes conversation and he had been to Dotcom’s mansion in Coatesville only once for dinner …
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10802016

The Pete George suggested ‘Alzheimer’s defence’ may work, but then is such an unwell condition acceptable in a Government Minister?
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May 4, 2012 8:11am
graham

“Tourism bosses fear ‘The GC’ will damage rep”

http://nz.totaltravel.yahoo.com/a/-/13597927/tourism-bosses-fear-the-gc-will-damage-rep/

Only if anybody actually watches it. So far I’ve only found one person who will admit that his wife watched it while he was the gym.
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May 4, 2012 8:16am
Scott Chris

Possum: The latest drinking game

In the game, called ”possum”, a group of people drink alcohol, usually a 24-pack of beer, while up a tree.

The first one to fall out from drunkenness loses the game.

You have to laugh.
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May 4, 2012 8:17am
David Garrett

Yvette: Well said…as this whole saga has developed, we all tend to forget that Banks’ INITIAL claim was the “twenty minute conversation” acquaintance with the big man when as things dragged on we see Banks toasting Dotcom at a big birthday bash; Banks and his missus and Dotcom and his doing the kissy kissy thing after a dinner out and planning to meet “next week” with no need to exchange numbers; the helicopter ride to the biggest mansion in Auckland if not the country…

My quess is no better than anyone else’s re why Key is putting up with this…this issue has totally consumed everything else the government is doing or trying to do, and the lights will have been burning all night on the ninth floor as Eagleson and his team try to decide which way to go next…But why?

The members of the politburo over at the Stranded claim Banks has “got” something on Key; that one of the four $25,000 donations to Banks’ campaign was from Key…I don’t put much credence on anything said in that cesspit of vipers, but one wonders why Key doesn’t simply stand him down…The only logical reason is that Banks has told Key that if he is stood down he will throw a hissy fit and not vote…nothing else makes any sense to me.
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May 4, 2012 8:25am
Keeping Stock

So a bloke who would later become a National Party MP helped a former National and future Act MP campaign for the Auckland mayoralty, and both were involved with C&R which has often be described as the National Party in drag. Is that the best that the Herald, Mike Williams and Trevor Mallard can come up with?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/grabbing-at-straws.html
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May 4, 2012 8:27am
Yvette

The scrapped TVNZ7 channel will be replaced with a “plus one” channel that will be a duplicate of TV One run an hour later …
TVNZ spokeswoman Megan Richards said the decision not to retain TVNZ7, or replace it with a new channel, was driven by economics and the Government’s expectation of a 9 per cent return on investment …
TVNZ was fully aware that fans of TVNZ7 would be disappointed
“But TVNZ simply cannot subsidise a public broadcasting channel and meet its financial performance targets.” …
The Government is expected to argue TVNZ7’s demise was an operational decision for TVNZ, but the state broadcaster believes it had little alternative given the decision to end its separate funding and the requirement for a 9 per cent return.

– http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/6857009/TVNZ7-scrapped-in-favour-of-repeats-channel

Maori have a television channel to reflect their culture, costing around $ 50 million a year [my understanding – please correct this if it is in error] due to Treaty considerations, so what is ‘pakeha’ entitlement under the Treaty.
“Pakeha’ may not submit any case to the Waitangi TreatyTribunal, so-called ‘founding document of the nation’.
No, it’s not.
Whuck the Treaty.

Auckland councillors are questioning a $16.8 million ratepayer contribution to a planned new dry dock for superyachts, which Herald readers have strongly opposed.

Whuck that as well.

Mr Banks, who has denied the claim, filed accounts showing five donations at the $25,000 level.

Who was the other donors [three way split], two [one straight, two split] or three [just simple $25,000 each]? And was one [latest rumour] from John Key?

WTWh?

The wider population of Dunedin have long tolerated the bibulous habits of the many students in the city. But that patience is being strained by the emergence of a bizarre new branch of drinking game, according to reports from the southern New Zealand city.
Called possum, the game has quite simple rules: you sit in a tree and drink until you fall out of it.

Not new, this has been around since at least 1966, but as with several recycled pastimes, the current version seems less challenging in that originally one arranged one’s bottles around the tree, then climbed it and using a string noose, lassoed each bottle, drew it up to be consumed,with the whole event being self-limiting in that one either fell out of the tree drunk, or became too inebriated to noose any more bottles. The present version is devoid of any challenge or skill.
Whucking typical.
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May 4, 2012 8:29am
eszett

The members of the politburo over at the Stranded claim Banks has “got” something on Key; that one of the four $25,000 donations to Banks’ campaign was from Key

Even if that where true, just how would that compromise Key?

…nothing else makes any sense to me

Pretty true about anything when it comes to ACT these days.
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May 4, 2012 8:31am
Carlos

I was just wondering as I’ve been reading books about creating personal wealth lately. They are pretty much unanimous that you want to build assets that bring in money. So, my question is if the government is making money from some assets, why would it be a good idea to sell those assets that are making money? Couldn’t wealth creation apply at government level, too?

I’ve heard the ideological responses that government has no part in business, but I want to hear real reasons at the practical level from thinking people.
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May 4, 2012 8:48am
Don the Kiwi

Getting Old…

is when a woman forgets to put her bra on, and it pulls the wrinkles out of her face! 🙂
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May 4, 2012 8:54am
calendar girl

The increase in minimum student loan repayments is being overblown in the MSM (as usual). I know an ex-student earning $55k per year ($1,057 per week gross, around $775 net after deductions for tax, ACC and student loan repayments). His repayments will increase by less than $14 pw.

Not too drastic (in the context of the country’s overall fiscal position) when the loan is interest-free at the taxpayer’s expense.
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May 4, 2012 9:01am
Pete George

Another disconnect within Labour?

No Cullen Fund restart until surplus, says Shearer– but did he tell his MPs?

David Shearer today:

“New Zealanders told us they were uncomfortable about the rate of borrowing… They saw this as borrowing to invest and they didn’t like that.

“We have listened.

“That’s why I won’t continue with Labour’s previous policy to restore contributions to the Cullen Super Fund until I think we can afford it.

“It wouldn’t have increased net debt because it gave us an asset that matched the liability. However, New Zealanders saw this as borrowing to invest and they didn’t like that,” Mr Shearer said.

“We’ve decided that until we are back in surplus, any new spending will have to be paid for out of existing budget provisions, new revenue, or by re-prioritising.”

Trevor Mallard on Tuesday speaking in the House:

“I note that it has been the policy of the government to not put money into the Cullen Fund.

“And that, of course, is something that works against the development of capital in New Zealand. I think that has been a short-term approach,”

Maybe Mallard has since come on board with his leader’s plans.
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May 4, 2012 9:01am
David Garrett

Eszett: It would be a serious bomb if the “anonymous” donation from Key was the same kind of “anonymous” donations it appears Banks received from Dotcom.

As I said, I don’t give much credence to anything I read on that wretched site, but having been in the middle of at least two political firestorms myself I know how a little about how said firestorms are handled when the problems derive from one man, and they aren’t handled like this…
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May 4, 2012 9:06am
WineOh

FYI I think there is a protest planned today in Wellington with march going from Te Papa to Parliament against asset sales. Needless to say I will not be attending.
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May 4, 2012 9:11am
Michael Mckee

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/05/global_warming_melts_away.html

Yet another look at non AGW warming.

I just love the alarmists who are now calling for people to be jailed for being deniers, well it can work both ways can’t it?
Seeing as this data is available to every scientist who is studying AGW, how about we put them and their activist friends in jail (or they pay it back) for getting all the funding based on their hyperbole and alarming predictions?
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May 4, 2012 9:13am
Keeping Stock

Ah yes WineOh; the Clayton’s Hikoi; the one that drives from town to town, only jumping out to actually hikoi when the TV cameras get switched on 🙂
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May 4, 2012 9:13am
Michael Mckee

calendar girl (690) Says:
May 4th, 2012 at 9:01 am

I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want to pay off the debt asap?
we do ours.
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May 4, 2012 9:14am
Keeping Stock

@ Michael McKee; I could see the evidence of global warming on my lawn this morning at dawn; white and crunchy it was… 😉
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May 4, 2012 9:14am
graham

This has been the first so-called “summer” where I haven’t ended up throwing all the blankets off the bed and sleeping with just a sheet to ward off the mosquitoes. Coldest summer I can remember … damn you, global warming!
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May 4, 2012 9:17am
Nostalgia-NZ

Maybe Banks might have something that could compromise JK, but I doubt that’s the case. I may have misread JK but I think politically he is a ‘don’t threaten me, just do it type.’ Moreover, he could simply announce what ever it was while Banks remains on the slippery slope. If there was a time to ‘hit’ Banks surely it would be now, whatever he might be considered to be holding. JK is too smart for Banks and I doubt he would lose his political steel because of the actions of a fumbling Minister.

So the puzzle remains even though I’m not sure if is fully appreciated that the danger is what Dotcom may have, and even who he may have been speaking to in 2010. If there were something there, the longer JK hangs on the worst it will look if it blows and others could suggest that JK knew all along and that was the reason for not acting earlier. As I asked yesterday where has the assassin gone, this crap is distracting to the extreme and a good kapow from the PM would benefit the mood in the electorate.
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May 4, 2012 9:24am
calendar girl

“I don’t understand why they wouldn’t want to pay off the debt asap? we do ours.”

Very simple, they see it as a no-cost loan from the taxpayer. There are not many sources of free money. All very well if non-committed (discretionary) income is invested wisely for a financial return, but I agree with your sentiment if it is simply going into consumption spending.
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May 4, 2012 9:26am
thedavincimode

So the puzzle remains

This isn’t a puzzle. It’s a Monty Python sketch.
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May 4, 2012 9:28am
Ross12

Michael McKee @ 9.14 With the loan being interest free it makes no financial sense to pay it off quickly —I believe there are some small incentives to pay it off a little ahead of time , so you’d take advantage of those. But any quicker doesn’t make sense at a personal level.
Having said that I applaud you for paying it off quickly from the point of view that the money goes ” back in the pot” for another student coming through the system.
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May 4, 2012 9:31am
Nostalgia-NZ

It is a bloody Monty Python sketch, that’s the worry.
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May 4, 2012 9:33am
James Stephenson

The members of the politburo over at the Stranded claim Banks has “got” something on Key;

What Banks has “got” on Key, is that Mr John I-just-want-everyone-to-like-me needs him around to continue the policies he wants, but wants to blame ACT for: Charter Schools, Fiscal Responsibility…
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May 4, 2012 9:36am
Michael Mckee

Calender girl
We do have sympathy with the present students as their leaders all got FREE (paid by someone 🙂 tertiary education.
I am biased towards a subsidised tertiary sector but only for practical degrees that can be used in trades or professions.

maybe a 10 yr term from graduation payoff time then full commercial rates would do it?
(with a year off for an OE of course!)

Ross
we worked and studied so had very little debt.
We know a newly minted doctor and she has $70k debt to her name, but some of that was gladding about on holidays both O/s and here during vacs, so how much actually was for study costs i’m not sure.
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May 4, 2012 9:41am
Luc Hansen

Michael McKee will be interested in this little gem, a demonstration of how neo-liberal “Think Tanks” derive their stunning graphs

http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=47
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May 4, 2012 9:42am
Michael Mckee

Keeping stock
Yeah I woke up very cold this morning, the wife had nicked the covers!
Wellington was cold first thing but no frost yet, you’re obviously somewhere colder 🙂
When it does happen it looks lovely from the window (with the fire on), with a nice cuppa tea and the Dompost to start the day.
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May 4, 2012 9:45am
Luc Hansen

On the international scene, it seems one clown prince will be reaffirmed (Boris) while another will wave goodbye to his palace (and trophy wife?) – au revoir, Nicolas.
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May 4, 2012 9:46am
David Garrett

Nostalgia: Excellent Comment. Agree 100%
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May 4, 2012 9:48am
Luc Hansen

graham, your experience is very different to ours, overlooking the Hobsonville base.

While not as bad as last year, intense humidity brings bigger flies than ever, and for the second year in a row our beloved figs exploded prematurely, filled with water instead of nutrients.

But, you ignorant fools, it’s not an event here or an event there that confirms AGW – it’s the overall trend. Overall trends include cold as well as warm extremes. In the short term, it’s called weather.

Has Banksie got the boot yet? Gone by lunchtime, I hear.
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May 4, 2012 9:51am
All_on_Red

Luc
“land-only surface temperature data”
Whats the margin of error on land based temp measurements Luc?

Realists tend to ignore these and instead look at the satellite data. Have you heard of RSS and UAH?
How is finding those “hotspots” going Luc,hmmm.

“Its a travesty we cant find the missing heat”
Kevin Trenberth
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May 4, 2012 9:54am
Falafulu Fisi

May be of interest to geo-scientists here.

‘Missing silicon problem’ solved, say geophysicists
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May 4, 2012 9:56am
Lipo

Anyone know the cost of the Ipads at NZ Duty Free Stores?
Think of getting one. Or perhaps a Sumsumg
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May 4, 2012 9:56am
Nookin

I agree that Banks is dog tucker. He now has no credibility.

Is it likely that the coalition agreement is fettering Key in manner different to the situation had Banks been a Nat MP?
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May 4, 2012 9:57am
joana

Geert Wilders has a new book out called ”Marked for Death.”
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May 4, 2012 10:00am
Pete George

@DomPost
The asset sales hikoi is heading from Porirua to Wgtn this morning, but plans to walk the whole way have been abandoned

I think plans “to walk the whole way” were abandoned at the start. It seems the have been quite queit since the Auckland march, where the main news was disputes over how many people and how many different messages.
‏
@PeterDunneMP
Hikoi on asset sales marches to Parliament on a day when it is not sitting – says a lot about the brains behind them.
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May 4, 2012 10:00am
Fletch

May The 4th Be With You!

There, I’ve said it 😛
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May 4, 2012 10:04am
thedavincimode

Fala

If you’re not a big banger, why is the universe expanding and why did it start doing that?
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May 4, 2012 10:07am
Falafulu Fisi

Car windshields of the future may not need wipers at all, since textured glass will be be self-cleaning or highly anti-fogging.

Textured glass provides a clear view

The material also has potential application in solar panels.
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May 4, 2012 10:07am
thedavincimode

That wasn’t the answer I was expecting 😕
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May 4, 2012 10:11am
Fletch

“Faces Of Palestine”, a pamphlet illustrated by Bosch Fawstin, gives quotations from high up Palestinian leaders (including Hamas, who lead the Palestinian Government) regarding the destruction is Israel.

Buy brochure or download PDF version FREE from here –

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/04/06/faces-of-palestine/
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May 4, 2012 10:20am
Longknives

“one of the bouquets at her funeral was even made of coke cans..”
“They had eight children in eight years..”
“Their father is in police Custody awaiting sentencing on charges of assault and burglary…”

Seriously? This whole story reads like a parody…Perhaps the ever-generous NZ on Air will fund a ‘reality’ TV show on this family?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6857516/Woman-addicted-to-Coke-always-felt-ill
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May 4, 2012 10:23am
Falafulu Fisi

thedavincimode, I’m anti-big-banger. I’m anti bing-bang non-causality. There’s a difference between the 2 here.

String theorists have theoretically proposed that if the big bang really happened, then it was caused by collisions of 2 pre-existing branes. Where did the branes come from? Unknown and Stringists don’t claim that it had some origins. So, the big bang (as I said) did have a cause after all. The current accepted mechanism of its cause was? Well, it didn’t have a cause at all, it just exploded from nothing.

The other Plasma theory posited that there is no expansion at all. Our observation of red-shit is deceiving us. The proponents of Plasma have pointed out experimental evidence of red-shit that is inconsistent thru-out the universe. Their conclusion? Physicists are being deceived by the observed red-shift as we see today as evidence of expanding universe but actually the red-shift contradicts itself in other observation/measurements that have been collected over the last few decades.

I’ll try and find the summary of this red-shift controversy from Plasma theorists perspective because I posted it on Sciblogs in a discussion over there sometime ago.
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May 4, 2012 10:23am
kowtow

It’s called the interglacial and there’s nothing we can do about that. What we can do is stop politicians taxing us and destroying our standards of living because of it.
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May 4, 2012 10:24am
Yvette

Does Key need Banks to pass all the points that they want in the up-coming Budget?
Apart from that, Key has said “I have been assured …” and needs do nothing else
To this point, as suggested earlier, the only obvious lie has been
He said his contact with Dotcom was limited to a total of 20 minutes conversation and he had been to Dotcom’s mansion in Coatesville only once for dinner …
For anything more, Key has to await the Police investigation
Could be months.
But at any point, if something else unfortunate emerges, Key can just say “Oh, shit – the bugger lied to me after all” and walk away from the whole mess unblemished.
Unless one of the five $25000 donations is from Key, but then that is why anonymity is allowed?
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May 4, 2012 10:25am
Pete George

Does Key need Banks to pass all the points that they want in the up-coming Budget?

I thought confidence and supply agreements would ensure the Maori Party would have to back the budget too, so Banks shouldn’t be needed.

Unless one of the five $25000 donations is from Key, but then that is why anonymity is allowed?

Yep. If only Keu knew for sure then it’s a non issue. But why the heck would Key donate to Banks for mayor? I’d be very surprised if he did.
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May 4, 2012 10:28am
philu

“..and the Dompost to start the day…”

hilarious..!..an anorexic/provincial/parish-pump five minute read…

..sheesh..!..widen yr gaze..eh..?

..and..do you like getting newsprint on yr hands..?

..someone offered me a mint print-herald the other day..

..i automatically recoiled..

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 4, 2012 10:29am
thedavincimode

..i automatically recoiled..

Why? Was it the Situations Vacant section?
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May 4, 2012 10:32am
All_on_Red

Luc,
Heres some other words you might like to learn what they mean
La Nina
El Nino
Pacific Decadal Oscillation
Atlantic Decadal Oscillation
Enso
Solar Flux
Sunspots

CO 2 has been going up for 30 years and the temp hasnt.
Why is that?
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May 4, 2012 10:34am
Longknives

thedavincimode- Nice! I don’t think anyone is going to beat that today….
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May 4, 2012 10:34am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2012/the-president-of-the-world-anti-doping-agency-john-fahey-has-raised-the-prospect-of-a-significant-amendment-to-the-international-drug-code-that-could-mean-cannabis-would-only-be-banned-in-sports/

“…Such a move would vindicate the push for changes to the status of cannabis by a coalition of Australian sporting bodies –

– which converged in Sydney on Wednesday to discuss how Wada’s code should be overhauled more broadly.

A substance on Wada’s banned list – reviewed annually – must meet two of three criteria:

– that it is proven to be performance enhancing –

– is against the spirit of sport –

– or is dangerous to the health of athletes…”

(cont..)

(ed:..cannabis fits none of those ban-criterea..eh..?..)

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 4, 2012 10:37am
David Garrett

PG: No. He needs all of them: Banks, Dunne and the Maoris – to pass confidence and supply measures. If Banks was to abstain for example, they can’t pass anything. Which itself pretty much explains why Key is gritting his teeth and riding this out.

Yvette: Yes, I guess that’s right; if some other revelation comes out Key can then drop him like a hot cake…but what then? If Banks can’t be relied upon to give the Nats his vote it’s GENERAL (as opposed to by) election time…Has to be.
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May 4, 2012 10:43am
freemark

One needs only to look at the Black Caps as proof that pot is not a performance enhancer!
And Phil of course.
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May 4, 2012 10:47am
Keeping Stock

@ David; not if Banks resigns from Parliament he doesn’t. The chances of either an Act or National candidate winning the seat are high, which would either leave National with 60 seats plus UF and the MP, or the status quo. Banks could easily be sacrificed if Key so desired.
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May 4, 2012 10:57am
Griff

Luc
That has to be the classic
Questioning data that was independently compiled to substantiate the reliability of the previous temperature records
Funded by a oil magnate and run by a respected true skeptic.
Conclusively rebutting any claim that the previous temperature records show no warming trend just margin of error.

They also show that local climates are changing
Some in fact cooling
England home of drizzle.Has had hundred year flooding and a drought simultaneously!
Climate change in real time

As to the first posted article from the web site: “Thinking”
Why the use of a different time series for every”Proof”?
Thats a very interesting anomaly developing in the sea ice extent graph
Very obvious over four of the last seven years

Now for the weather
Up north it was a chilly morning I think we suffered with about 14 or I5.
Might have to close the bi folds before sunset.
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May 4, 2012 11:09am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2012/speak-no-evil-the-power-of-positivity/

“…An online scribe vows to speak no evil –

– and embrace the power of positivity…”

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 4, 2012 11:10am
Scott Chris

CO 2 has been going up for 30 years and the temp hasnt.
Why is that?

1) The atmosphere only holds 2% of the earth’s surface heat content so the average surface temperature is merely a small component of AGW.

2) Despite the apparent plateau in rising average temperatures, the climate trend is still upward. Only a statistically reliable period of time can determine a trend and in climate science this is generally held to be a 30 year period.

3) The recent solar minimum and La Nina events have influenced the last couple of years’ readings. However, the last El Nino event 2 years ago brought the hottest 12 month average surface temperature period ever. (Of course this is merely a spike in the longer term trend)
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May 4, 2012 11:34am
Luc Hansen

All on Red

To say temps have not risen for 30 years simply flies in the face of reality. Even the BEST programme, as Griff points out endorses the science – pointing out also, by the way, that HadCrut, which is the only series still showing 1998 as the warmest year ever in the instrumental record, actually understates warming.

And a big problem is that the story of global waming is best told not by the headline land/sea records, but by deep ocean temperature and, even more telling, the acidity of the oceans.

Even if, for example, Richard Lindzen is correct and clouds will save us from temp increase (hasn’t worked so far, but never mind) the acidification of the ocean (caused by absorption of CO2) will, if left unchecked, eventually lead to global mass extinction, including humans.

But you will be long gone, so don’t worry your little head about it, OK?
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May 4, 2012 11:39am
IHStewart

@ Keeping Stock & DG
A General election would benefit who ? My feeling is that Labour would do if not well a lot better, NZ First about the same and National would drop. Quite possible that Labour would pick up another Maori seat ( Sharples ) can’t see Hone losing his and Mana might well grab a second leaving the Maori party with a single seat. Dunn wouldn’t welcome an election but I suspect he would retain his seat. Epsom would revert to the Nats.

That leaves us with the Greens and for them the equation is simple will they hold or fall back and in a General Election, I think they will drop ( the electorate will be less than impressed at being forced back to the polls early and it would focus the left vote ).

Faced with that the Greens might opt to play the stability card and give confidence and supply being seen to act responsibly might well pay dividends in the longer term.

Interesting times, for my money Key would have to have been a fool to donate to Banks campaign and he certainly doesn’t strike me as a fool.
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May 4, 2012 11:49am
KevinH

@DG
Despite John Key’s rebuttal that the Banks affair is not a question of ethic’s, the court of public opinion believes it is and that John Banks is guilty of unethical behaviour and should be stood down until an investigation exonerates him. Standing Banks down would take the heat out of the debacle and give John Key time to regroup.
However as you know a week is a long time in politics and this issue may blow over as new issues’s arise. Personally I can’t see the issue being serious enough for the government to fall, Bank’s is an experienced politician and will tough it out and provide some amusing theatre in the process.
Labour will continue to pursue Bank’s because their strategy will be to pick away at the fringes, ie ACT, Maori and United Future will be targets this parliamenatry session.
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May 4, 2012 12:18pm
Luc Hansen

Meanwhile, in the big, great world out there, has everyone missed that Russia is now threatening military action against NATO over the anti-(non existent Iranian) nuclear missiles missiles (not a misprint) the US wants to install in Poland.?

Wouldn’t that be fun – a war over an imaginary threat.

Good time to be downunder.
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May 4, 2012 12:27pm
Keeping Stock

@ IH Stewart – dead right; Key is no-one’s fool. And he doesn’t do things in the traditional, stereotypical political manner, so the opposition simply can’t read him. That must give Trevor Mallard sleepless nights!
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May 4, 2012 12:38pm
Lucia Maria

Luc,

Russia isn’t an imaginary threat.

Thanks for pointing this out!
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May 4, 2012 12:42pm
Keeping Stock

Estimates of a crowd of 2000 on the asset sales hikoi to Parliament today; so much for another of Phil the Prophet’s predictions; didn’t he say that this one was going to be even bigger than the Seabed and Foreshore one? Nostradamus he ain’t!

About 2000 people on a hikoi against asset sales have begun to march on Parliament.

The Aotearoa Not for Sale Hikoi oppose the Government’s partial sale of power companies, deep sea oil drilling, mining, the Crafar farm sales and a range of other issues.

Leaving from outside Te Papa museum, the marchers are about halfway to Parliament.

Earlier about 1500 people gathered outside the museum, accompanied by a large contingent of police including Maori wardens.

Traffic is being controlled by traffic barriers across the city and several road closures are in place.

There is a large number of Mana Party supporters from the Far North, including party leader Hone Harawira, the party’s sole MP.

Protester Alex Wong, a chef from Whangarei, said: “I’ve come to protest about the Government attack against the workers and the lower classes in general.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6859194/Asset-sale-hikoi-marches-on-Parliament

Sheesh; even Bishop Tamaki got a bigger crowd than Hone and his whanau!
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May 4, 2012 12:52pm
Viking2

Question. which of the political parties could fund a General Election right now?

HMM, well
Labour , not if what has been said earlier is the case.
Maori, well they will hikoi the cash
the possum Party, probably not.
The Veterans aka NZ First. Who would know given we still don’t know who donates what to them most of the time
Nats. Not sure but probably not to any great extent.
Act. Well if they booted Banks and added back some better people their will be money for them

So all round not a pretty picture for the Govt. nor anyone else.
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May 4, 2012 12:54pm
graham

Keeping Stock: “The Aotearoa Not for Sale Hikoi oppose the Government’s partial sale of power companies, deep sea oil drilling, mining, the Crafar farm sales and a range of other issues.”

So it’s another hoi-polloi rag-tag demonstration with disgruntled people turning up to protest a whole bunch of stuff.

‘Protester Alex Wong … said: “I’ve come to protest about the Government attack against the workers and the lower classes in general … This is our way of letting them know. When you get support together like this, it sends a strong message to people.” ‘

Does it? If you have a bunch of people protesting about a variety of issues – not united on one common theme – how much attention do people pay to it?

Anyway, by now haven’t we all seen so many protest marches that we’re a bit blase about them? They need to do something different. Although the “Occupy” movement was largely fuelled by crackpot hippies, you have to admit it drew more attention than most other protests.
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May 4, 2012 1:02pm
Luc Hansen

Lucia Maria

I’m glad you understand that.
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May 4, 2012 1:15pm
Pete George

I think the variety of protest issues highlights the reality – there isn’t strong concerted opposition to the MOM, otherwise that’s where all the attention would be. Asset sales always have been and still just are an anti government exercise for some (Greens, Mana and Labour) and and excuse to protest for a few ragtags.
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May 4, 2012 1:16pm
Keeping Stock

You’re onto it Graham. Rent-a-mob is out in force while the rest of us work for a living.
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May 4, 2012 1:20pm
Yvette

Finding the person responsible for leaking a confidential Cabinet paper on the MFAT restructuring, is being put in the too hard basket.

How can Phil Goff ask a question in Parliament referring to a confidential Cabinet illegally in his hands, and why need a Minister of Foreign Affairs reply if that forces him to reveal further confidential information?
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May 4, 2012 3:09pm
Lee01

“over the anti-(non existent Iranian)”

You mean the nuclear missiles they are in fact trying very hard to create while being led by the Islamic version of Adolf Hitler?

Sure…. no threat at all.

Luc is like the people who claimed in the 1930’s that the Nazi threat to the Jews was fabricated propaganda created by anti-German warmongers.

Some stupidities just never seem to go away.
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May 4, 2012 3:18pm
Pete George

Chris Trotter sums up the protest futility, and even suggests a negative effect (he’s probably right):

Many of the people I spoke to on the anti-privatisation march realised that there were “not enough” people to give the National-led Government pause, but added cheerily “still, it’s better than nothing”. Not necessarily. I would argue that Saturday’s march was, in fact, worse than nothing.

By providing the Government with a vivid glimpse of its most vociferous opponents, and revealing just how few of them there really are (even in the country’s most populous city) the organisers of the anti-privatisation march have told the Government that it can now proceed without serious political risk.

Given the comparatively low turnout, it would have been safer to let the poll data on privatisation do the talking. The latter showed a clear majority of voters (in some polls two-thirds to three-quarters) opposed to “partial” privatisation. Those are scary numbers. But now the Government knows that, unlike the anti-mining sentiment of 2010, the anti-privatisation sentiment of 2012 isn’t strong enough to mobilise more than “the usual suspects”.

http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2012/05/pessimistic-reformist-considers.html

That was on last weeks protest but similar numbers, and I would guess similar sentiments, on todays.
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May 4, 2012 3:50pm
Lucia Maria

Luc,

Yeah. They’re both a threat, just at different levels. There’s a good reason Poland wants missile defence on her soil.
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May 4, 2012 3:56pm
philu

“..so much for another of Phil the Prophet’s predictions..”

there are several threads to this failure…(and a failure it was..)

i agree with most of what trotter said..

..but would note that the hikoi side of things had a major fail…

..and i don’t know the reasons for that…but there was no vibe to it..

..and that fail clearly demonstrated not only by a lack of people on the day…

..but also by paltry turnouts down the island…

(there was no ‘vibe’..)

..as for the ak left side of things…i went to the initial meeting about it..(trotter was there..)

..and an argument presented was to have the march on may day..( a week/work day..)..for the symbolism..

..i pointed out that the only day to have a march in ak is a saturday..

..and that most importantly..the march must start at midday/high-noon…

(reasons for that later..)

..that meeting agreed to meet again to decide a date/time..but at that meeting a fait accomplait was presented..the date..and the time..

..3pm..

..posters were already printed etc..(it was brute-democracy at its’ finest..)

now.. ..there have been two major demo-successes of recent years..the greenpeace one..and the anti-ge one..

..both were successful demos in every sense of the word..

..big turnouts..and enough to force a u-turn upon both national got..and a labour govt…

..i don’t know much about the greenpeace demo..except they learnt a lot from the anti-ge one..

..i know a bit about the anti-ge one..’cos the idea/day/timing of it came from me…

..at the end of a long meeting of groups of different activists at the green party office in anzac ave..

..the discussion had revolved around pickets outside supermarkets etc..and a raft of other micro-actions..

..after a couple of hours of this..i jumped to my feet..and made the point that micro was going to do squat…

..that a grand gesture had to be made..for the govt to take any notice..and that we had to hit the streets..for a big march..

..(this argument was accepted by applause..)

..the next wrangle was the time/day for march..

..anfd after listening again for awhlle as fri-nite rush hour marches were entertined..(”cos that’s how/when we’ve always done it..’)

..i jumped up again..and said to get the most people there it had to be on a saturday…and at midday…’high noon’..

..that also was won by applause…

..and the reason why that high noon is important…?

..it is because the most effective demos have lots of prams/pushchairs/small children/family-groups…

..and the best time for them is midday….3 pm sucks..

..’cos even if subconciously..they know that 3 pm start..means they won’t be home before the witching hours for little people..

..before so many of them go postal…

..i tried to tell that meeting this..and hoped/planned to push that point home..at the next/deciding meeting..which became the 3 pm one..

(and i hafta say..i was pissed at that arbitrary..and to my mind stupid/ill-thought-out decision..and said so..)

that wasn’t the only reason that march failed..

(there was also no ‘vibe’ about it..for the anti-ge one we had bfm and a lot of the ak media onside..it would seem that was not attended to in this case..i understand leafleting markets and putting up posters were about it..)

..but if one thing can be learnt from that surely…is that to get those prams/pushchairs..(and people..3pm is such a low-time of the day..almost at the fag-end..)

that the golden rule for any demo..is that must be on a saturday…at high noon..

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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May 4, 2012 4:33pm
Peter

You couldn’t make this stuff up:

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2012/05/04/green-policies-translated-into-nz-sign-language/

So the deaf can’t read now?
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May 4, 2012 5:18pm
mara

joanna, thanks for the book tip “Marked for Death” by Geert Wilders. While folks witter about trivia, important stuff happens.
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May 4, 2012 5:24pm
thedavincimode

… and that folks, is a major attack of philunorrhea.

Been in the kitchen all arvo by the look of it.
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May 4, 2012 5:24pm
thedavincimode

PG

Green friendly deaf people choose not to read on principle because the failure to communicate with them by signing is merely another callous and cynical attempt by society and gummint in particular, to dis-enfranchise and subjugate them by requiring them to interact with society on society’s terms.

The Green Party is the only party in this country that values people who are configured on a functionally alternative basis (“disabled” to people such as you).
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May 4, 2012 5:35pm
Fletch

B-E-A-U-T-I-F-U-L !

Hannity interviews the leader of the Occupy movement in New York in the studio, tells him to get off his ass and go get a job!

Also when Hannity asks about the rapes etc going on down at Occupy, the guy says that the Police sent rapists down there to make them look bad! Really!? These people are out of their minds. Oh, and he also wants everything for free – house, car, health care etc. No idea who is going to pay for it though.

Well worth a look to see this guy get put in his place 🙂

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/hannity-destroys-occupy-wall-st-organizer-in-fiery-segment-about-movements-violence/
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May 4, 2012 6:21pm
mara

“The Green Party is the only party in this country that values people who are configured on a functionally alternative basis (“disabled” to people such as you). Hells teeth, such idiocy and they have members in parliament?? HA HA HA. Weep. Democracy has a downside. Who knew?
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May 4, 2012 6:33pm
Steve

Fletch @ 6.21

Harrison Shultz is quite a sad person really.’ Who pays for it?’ ‘Nobody, it’s free’
Absolutely no fucking idea
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May 4, 2012 6:50pm
East Wellington Superhero

Great performance by the Prime Minister tonight on Campbell Live. John Key totally out-manoeuvred John Campbell’s little insinuations and gave an enlightening interview. He was upfront and real. My prediction yesterday that the John Banks stuff would blow-over is firming up, and once again we see why THE LEFT CONTINUES TO UNDERESTIMATE JOHN KEY – to their continual peril (long may it last).
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May 4, 2012 7:31pm
nasska

A young blonde was on vacation in the depths of Louisiana. She wanted a pair of genuine alligator shoes in the worst way, but was very reluctant to pay the high prices the local vendors were asking.

After becoming very frustrated with the ‘no haggle’ attitude of one of the shopkeepers, the blonde shouted, ‘Maybe I’ll just go out and catch my own alligator so I can get a pair of shoes at a reasonable price!’

The shopkeeper said, ‘By all means, be my guest. Maybe you’ll luck out and catch yourself a big one!’

Determined, the blonde turned and headed for the swamps, set on catching herself an alligator. Later in the day, the shopkeeper is driving home, when he spots the young woman standing waist deep in the water, shotgun in hand. Just then, he sees a huge 9 foot alligator swimming quickly toward her. She takes aim, kills the creature and with a great deal of effort hauls it on to the swamp bank. Laying nearby were several more of the dead creatures. The shopkeeper watches in amazement.

Just then the blonde flips the alligator on it’s back, and frustrated, shouts out, ‘Damn it, this one isn’t wearing any shoes either!’
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May 4, 2012 8:00pm
kowtow

EWS

Can’t stand Campy,and don’t have a huge amount of time for JK. But you’re dead right. Campy was his usual shit self trying to be the zealous journo “holding power to account” or whatever they dream about about doing. Complete prat. And JK while uncomfortable more than held his own.
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May 4, 2012 9:42pm
Steve

This is what a ‘repeater’ does

‘ed:..there are 41 new/fresh stories/links for you today…

(you will need to go thru to page 2 to get them all..)’
Did anyone count the 41? Nope, because they are not new or fresh, they are an index of a stupid persons craving for attention.
Stupid people are allowed to get a job and work, and pay TAX
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May 4, 2012 9:46pm

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