General Debate 29 March 2012

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Pete George

No doubt the frenzy will continue today. I suggested yesterday that it’s not nice to see attack politics in full fury, and got some expected criticism.

Do we just shrug our shoulders and say it’s just the way it is? I’m in agreement to an extent with Redlogix:

I actually agree with your basic sentiment PG. This kind of politics doesn’t appeal anymore to me than it does you.

It is one of the least appealing things about our politics to the wider public. Many don’t see wins and losses, just a bunch of tossers.

I don’t agree that it’s just brought about because of National’s faults. It’s due to a longstanding culture of crap politics from across the House. All MPs and parties should play a part in cleaning up their acts. And political blogs could lead the way too, if they chose to ditch the bitter war and find a better way.

Holding to account, or heaves of destruction?
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March 29, 2012 8:13am
Keeping Stock

More tabloid journalism from the Herald; by not naming the “former National MP” who has allegedly assaulted someone, they have smeared the reputation of EVERY male former National MP, and already some are using social media to clear their names.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/name-him.html
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March 29, 2012 8:17am
Chris2

Keeping Stock – compare this to the media reluctance to name the party affiliation of the “former high-profile national figure” charged with a child sex crime a couple of years ago. Hhmm, I’m can’t even remember has that case been to trial?
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March 29, 2012 8:32am
tristanb

Most of us would agree that short skirts are not justification for rape. But the Indonesian government does:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/6657007/Indonesian-woman-stripped-of-mini-skirt-rights

Okay, that’s their business. Pretty sad and morally repugnant – but that’s what happens when you give power to religion.

But why are we giving them $19 million dollars a year? Why are we giving millions to Tonga?

Why, oh why? We need to stop the aid to these ungrateful countries.
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March 29, 2012 8:39am
travellerev

Sorry guys, Have to link whore today. This is huge!

It’s not so much that John Key is a bad liar, he just doesn’t give a fuck about being found out.

He once said that the instruments now causing the destruction of the entire financial world were developed after he left banking. Today I can reveal this to be untrue.

In fact I caught John Key in another whopper! And no I will never suicide myself. LoL

http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/coming-later-today-john-key-more-lies-bankers-trust-and-credit-default-swaps-or-did-john-key-help-birth-the-instrument-of-financial-mass-destruction/
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March 29, 2012 8:44am
Falafulu Fisi

Tristanb asked…
But why are we giving them $19 million dollars a year? Why are we giving millions to Tonga?

Why, oh why? We need to stop the aid to these ungrateful countries.

Who did you vote for? If National, then all you have to blame is yourself. There’s only one political party that campaigned to slim the Govt size by chopping non-core departments (include foreign affairs with their endless Santa Claus aid to other countries) to the bone, ie, Gone by lunch-time, don’t come back to work on Monday. I think that you know of which party that campaigned on that during the last election.
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March 29, 2012 8:51am
MT_Tinman

travellerev (115) Says:
March 29th, 2012 at 8:44 am
Sorry guys

I stopped reading there – lies piss me off.
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March 29, 2012 9:27am
Michael Mckee

http://www.mmpreview.org.nz/have-your-say/what-happens-next?nocache=1

Hi Guys
you have till 7th April to make your submissions on MMP and you must have made a submission to appear before the committee.

Mine are:

1. No List MP’s or if so then they only have half (50%) of a vote to represent that they aren’t elected by us but by party factions.

2. Threshold 3% so that all groups can be represented in parliament.

3. No person should be able to be on both List and constituency list at the same time.
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March 29, 2012 9:32am
Michael Mckee

Tristan
It’s not about religion, some men can’t control themselves and especially so Muslim men with other peoples wives, daughters, sisters and nieces it seems.
I note that we don’t seem to have a lot of women raping and indecently assaulting men around the world do we?
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March 29, 2012 9:35am
Elaycee

trivialrev is at it again – more innuendo and bluster from the perennial muppet.

Hey, trivialrev – they’re playing your song!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXvV2ALV0bg
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March 29, 2012 9:45am
Michael Mckee

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/03/coming_soonthe_global_march_to_jerusalem.html

could be interesting TV on Sat Night/Sunday morning.
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March 29, 2012 9:51am
david

Interesting item about Sky City’s “rewards” system for celebs. It would be interesting if one of the Herald’s intrepid reporters thought outside the square and asked IRD for a comment on whether this is a device to avoid Income Tax unless every penny used on the Chairman’s Cards are declared as income.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10794477
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March 29, 2012 9:52am
Gosman

Why do you bother posting here Travellerev? It is quite obvious you aren’t interested in engaging in any meaningful debate. You seem to expect to be able to post your nonsense and then run back to your own blog where you only allow people who agree with you to post. Frankly you are a Troll of the highest order and are gutless.
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March 29, 2012 11:10am
Jack5

Something for the Greens and Labour to consider in their likely future push for quotas of women on company boards:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/9171057/Aggressive-female-board-members-take-more-risks-than-men-research-shows.html
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March 29, 2012 11:12am
Gosman

I’m surprised that you have only now started to find out about the history of the financial instruments you have been banging on about for so long. That just further goes to highlight your lack of knowledge on the subject. I agree completely with Elaycee. You are a Muppet of the highest order.
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March 29, 2012 11:12am
wikiriwhis business

Fascinating Mr Trotter wrote in his column of Nick Smith building on a discredited policy in US which deprives the public of services stripping libraries and public works creating a huge social quagmire. Why didn’t he bring this out when smith was still a minister?

Anyway, the Nat/Lab coalition will simply carry on the agenda without Smith. This is why Winston and the Greens are enjoying success. Third party representation is becoming stronger due to the public becoming aware we actually have choices and exercising them. Much to the chagrin of the coalition.

Watch a ton of laws being pumped through before Key’s last election.
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March 29, 2012 11:28am
Chthoniid

@tristanb

No government concerned about the happiness of society could ever justify banning the miniskirt.
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March 29, 2012 11:41am
tom hunter

I suppose this will be entirely lost amidst other news but in the USA, one of the biggest, most important cases in US history is currently being argued in the Supreme Court.

I’m not talking about Obamacare specifically, it’s simply the latest Federal Government power grab. But it’s the fulcrum on which there may finally be some definitive limits placed on the accursed Commerce Clause, through which the Federal government has trundled a bunch of stuff – such as drug laws and drug agency actions – that have long been considered a stretch to define as “commerce”.

Perhaps the individual mandate of Obamacare will prove a step too far? Either way the decision goes it’s a huge decision.
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March 29, 2012 11:50am
labours a joke

Doug Graham , Bill Jefferies et al being sentenced today. Talk of jail. Oh how the mighty montrose has fallen.

I Rememeber Dougie tellin everybody, maybe 15 years ago when he was giving NZ away to the maori, that the sooner us mere mortals learn there is one law for one and one law for others in NZ, the better.

Your cellmate should be Chris Finlayson.

Bye Dougie. Hope you get a shitty cell.
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March 29, 2012 12:29pm
Paulus

Statement by the Queen of the Media – Kathryn Ryan on nine to noon.

“the Media are the Guardians of the Public” – now I know

She, and Gavin Ellis, said effectively that they will continue to put the boot in to the Government, due to the disgraceful Bradley Ambrose affair.
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March 29, 2012 12:30pm
chiz

Looking at the obits in the paper I see that Paddy Freaney has died. Freaney’s main claim to fame is that he once, supposedly, saw a moa.
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March 29, 2012 12:36pm
dime

whats Minto doing with the wharfies? lol

did they need to bring in his “star power”?
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March 29, 2012 1:44pm
mikenmild

tom hunter
Yes, that’s one to follow with interest. It did even rate a mention in the DomPost this morning.
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March 29, 2012 1:47pm
Fletch

Looks like Sky has competition in NZ now, from a new player called Quickflix.

Sky Television’s stranglehold on NZ’s pay-TV sector is set for a major shake-up with the arrival of online competition.

Sci-fi fans will be able to download the latest Doctor Who episodes and blockbuster films to their television through a subscription service launched today by pay-television company Quickflix that will provide fledgling competition to Sky Television.

The Australian firm, which is headed by former Prime Television boss Chris Taylor, is offering “unlimited” access to its catalogue of Hollywood movies and BBC drama and comedy programmes for $16.99 a month, with an introductory price of $9.99, and no minimum contract term.

Programmes can be viewed on computers, internet-connected Sony Bravia televisions and on other televisions that are connected to the internet through Blu-ray players and PlayStation 3 consoles. Quickflix said iPhones and iPads would support the service from May and other internet-capable televisions, smartphones and tablets “over the coming months”.

State-owned internet provider Orcon has agreed to “zero rate” the service from May 10, meaning that for its customers, downloads will not count towards their monthly broadband data caps. Quickflix said it expected to enter into similar agreements with other internet providers, starting with Slingshot.

“Compared with other countries in the developed world broadband data caps in New Zealand are restrictively low but we see this changing,” Taylor said.

Quickflix has a similar business model to United States’ online streaming television service Netflix, whose non-arrival in New Zealand last year prompted hand-wringing over the state of the country’s broadband and the dominance of Sky TV in the pay-television market.

Its online catalogue includes “blockbusters” from six major film studios, including Warner Bros and MGM, as well as BBC shows. A spokeswoman would not say how many films and shows would be available yesterday, but the company said it expected to announce more film and television partners “over the coming weeks”. Customers will also be able to view newly-released films on a pay-per-view basis from $6.99 per film.

“The advent of smart devices in the home is transforming the choices available to consumers all over the world,” Taylor said.

“In our view there is not enough competition in New Zealand and consumers deserve more choice of content, on-demand, without the exorbitant price tag.”

Orcon chief executive Scott Bartlett said New Zealanders had been hanging out for a service such as Quickflix. “To be able to legally stream unlimited movies under an affordable monthly subscription service is a massive leap forward for Kiwis.”

Orcon has also partnered with Quickflix to offer everyone a one month free trial for the service.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/6656577/New-online-service-challenges-Sky-TV
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March 29, 2012 2:38pm
travellerev

Here you go, part 1 on John Key and Credit default swaps enjoy.

And Cowboy Hat Boy, I don’t debate you because like most people I know I consider you to be a huge waste of time. It is you who is not interested in real debate. You want to obfuscate, confuse and waste peoples time. There is a difference. Added to that I give people information which they can decide to read, accept or reject and that takes most of my time. Debating is something you do when you have time left I don’t so fuck off to were you came from. (Probably an office where they pay you for this crap)
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March 29, 2012 3:26pm
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2012/the-strange-conservative-brain-3-reasons-republicans-refuse-to-accept-reality-about-global-warming/

“…Even many well-educated Republicans deny global warming.

What’s going on here?…”

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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March 29, 2012 4:30pm
travellerev

Bugger, not a ” but a ‘ when linking on this blog. http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/john-key-and-credit-default-swaps-part-1-a-quick-primer/
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March 29, 2012 4:31pm
Fletch

philu, it is precisely because they are well educated that they know climate change has not been proved scientifically but is being pushed by folks with an agenda. At least some people know how to think for themselves instead of swallowing the ‘facts’ that the media has masticated and presented to them to swallow, like baby chicks that swallow the food the parent bird has regurgitated.
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March 29, 2012 4:52pm
mikenmild

It is obviously accepted that many otherwise well-educated people refuse to ‘believe’ in human contribution to climate change. That doesn’t really mean anything about thinking for oneself. It’s more about thinking in general and the types of arguments that people find convincing.
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March 29, 2012 5:23pm
philu

those lombard bastards are laughing..eh..?

..community service..for $182 million rip-off..

..and all their ill-gotten gains tied up in trusts…

..so no forced..or voluntary..restitution..

..sweet..!

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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March 29, 2012 5:33pm
mikenmild

Without being a fan of those Lombard directors at all, it should be pointed out that a finance company failure does not necessarily involve a ‘rip off’. They were found guilty of misleading investors, not stealing. Also, I understand that civil action is under way against the directors, so they may yet face more financial penalties.
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March 29, 2012 5:48pm
Put it away

phool, do you support forced restitution of the welfare money you’ve been defrauding from those of us who contribute to society?
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March 29, 2012 5:51pm
mikenmild

pia
Probably not fraud per se, just a moral transgression!
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March 29, 2012 5:58pm
adze

Damnit, I really hope the sentencing Judge’s decision was a robust one, re the Lombard Four. I kind of wish they had been given time; now we can expect a few weeks of “LOLOL OLD WHITE MEN GET OFF JAIL AGAIN HERP DERP” as well as several visits from Penny Protests-R-Us.
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March 29, 2012 6:08pm
labours a joke

I agree with the phool. 300 hours community service for telling porkies that cost 182 million..joke.

No remorse. Arrogant stiffs.
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March 29, 2012 6:10pm
krazykiwi

It is obviously accepted that many otherwise well-educated people refuse to ‘believe’ in human contribution to climate change

I believe. I believe human contribution is statistically insignificant. I believe we’re lied to about this. I believe the tide is turning.
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March 29, 2012 6:30pm
Griff

Interesting philu that the comments by Fletch and KK confirm your link
pity that both of them failed to read it
They may have accessed an interesting insight into their physic.
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March 29, 2012 6:49pm
Fletch

Very good article that points out that there are new Nazis occupying in France, in Europe and other countries –

There was a time when Jewish children were hunted down and killed in France. Their killers believed themselves to be members of a superior group that was destined to rule the world and enslave or exterminate members of inferior groups. The cowardice and appeasement of the French authorities allowed them to operate freely, to kill Jews and launch attacks on other countries.

What was then is now again. The occupying army doesn’t wear uniforms, it wears keffiyahs. It doesn’t speak German, it speaks Arabic. It doesn’t believe that it is superior for reasons of race as much as for reasons of religion. It does not view all others as Untermenschen, but as infidels. It looks forward not to a thousand year Reich, but to a thousand year Caliphate.

Mohammed Merah did not chase down a French-Jewish seven year old girl, put a gun to her head and pull the trigger because he came from an economically depressed area or any of the other media spin. He was only doing what Muslims had been doing to non-Muslims for over a thousand years. He didn’t do what he did because he was “radicalized”, he did it because he became a fully committed Muslim.

It won’t end with taking down one man and it won’t end with Jewish children. When your ideology believes that it is in a zero-sum struggle with the rest of the world and that membership means that you are a superior breed of human being because you worship the Fuhrer or Allah, then it won’t stop. It won’t ever stop. Not until the figurehead is toppled, the creed is humiliated and the supermen are shown to be cowards, neurotics, pedophiles, insecure men dressing up their weaknesses in power fantasies.

Between all the non-stop coverage, the expressions of grief, the political pandering, no one is stating the obvious. France has been occupied all over again. Once again the occupation has been carried out with the consent of the authorities who have decided that cowardice is the only way. Vichy France has become Vichy Europe, Vichy America, Vichy Australia, where the blatant appeasement is disguised as honor, treason is portrayed as responsible leadership and collaboration in the mass murder of your own people is never acknowledged as such.

It’s not Neo-Nazis that are the threat to Jews today. It’s the new Nazis and the old Nazis who were rounding up Jews into ghettos and murdering their children long before a thousand years before Hitler. The Neos are pathetically longing for the return of a genocidal state that isn’t coming back, while the Muslims are actually working to bring back their genocidal state. They are doing it in Egypt, in Libya, in Pakistan and in England, France and Spain.

Muslims have hated Jews before the telephone, the telegraph, the steam engine, gunpowder, movable type and paper currency. And now surrounded by smartphones, credit cards and jet planes, they still hate them. That simple undeniable fact is denied by government, in every university and in every center of culture. And every one of those deniers has blood on his hands.

Not only the blood of the Jewish children murdered by Mohammed Merah. Not only the blood of Jews murdered by Muslims in France. But the blood of all those who have been killed by Muslim immigrants, no matter of what generation, in the name of Islam.

The names of Chamberlain, Petain and Quisling have become eternally infamous because they stand for appeasement and collaboration. But then what do we make of the names Blair, Sarkozy and Stoltenberg? What have the latter done differently from their predecessors? The left likes to pretend that its collaboration with Islam is moral, while the collaboration with Nazism was immoral. It’s a distinction without a difference.

Does it really matter whether the men murdering children in the name of their Fuhrer call him Adolf or Mohammed? Does it matter whether they call themselves Hans or Mohammed? Does it matter whether their fantasies of superiority are based on bad science or bad religion? What matters is the end result. A foreign enemy controls your cities, murders at will and takes your future for his own.

MORE – http://bit.ly/Hl3Ufl
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March 29, 2012 6:59pm
mikenmild

Wow Fletch – that is paranoia – the author of that ramble probably needs medicating.
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March 29, 2012 7:33pm
labours a joke

Milkenmike

“In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term used to describe people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.”

Sound like you ?
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March 29, 2012 7:43pm
mikenmild

I don’t think I am being used by anyone. I do however think that people like Fletch would be considered ‘useful’ by the maniac who write the sort of stuff he happily cut and pasted above.
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March 29, 2012 7:46pm
nasska

Uncle Jon was helping one of his cows give birth, when he
noticed his four-year-old Great Nephew, James, standing
at the fence, wide-eyed and soaking in the whole event.

Uncle Jon thought to himself: “Great, now I’m gonna have
to explain the ‘birds and bees’ to him. Well, no need to jump
the gun. I’ll just wait and see if he has any questions, and
I’ll just answer them as best I can.”

After Uncle Jon finished helping the cow with her birthing,
he walked over to James and asked him: “Do you have
any questions about what you seen here tonight?”

“Just one,” the little boy whispered, eyes still wide with
wonder. “How fast was that calf going when he hit the
cow?”
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March 29, 2012 8:00pm
philu

(to griff..)

..and fletch has that far-right christian thing going on..woven thru with muslim paranoia..

..he is scared of a lot..

..that little man..

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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March 29, 2012 8:02pm
SGA

Lone gunman with links to an extremist group goes on a killing spree.

If the gunman’s Jewish, he’s dismissed as a nutter – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

If he’s Muslim, it’s all part of a vast Islamic conspiracy.

Funny world we live in.
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March 29, 2012 8:10pm
Viking2

Ah Nick the Nutter just can’t help himself.
Does this man ever get along with anyone or get anything right?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/news/6659304/Mayor-Smith-in-joust-on-merger
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March 29, 2012 8:14pm
philu

god..orcon suck..25 mins..and waiting .. for a human…

phillip ure@whoar.co.nz
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March 29, 2012 8:24pm
Dazzaman

The establishment old boys get off with the proverbial wet bus ticket.

Funny how Jefferies resisted reparations in exchange for a reduced sentence…usually such smart-aleckyness (ha!) backfires. I’ve seen judges throw that sort of shit back in defendants faces with a much stiffer sentence.

Life in the NZ version of the broederbond has its advantages alright.
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March 29, 2012 9:10pm
labours a joke

A young man on acid walked into a dentist’s office and said, ” Can you help me? I think I’m a moth.”
The dentist said, “You don’t need a dentist. You need a psychiatrist.”
“Yes, I know,” the man said.
The dentist asked, “So then why did you come in here?”
The man replied, “The light was on.”
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March 29, 2012 9:13pm
krazykiwi

phool 8:24 – Orcon is state owned. Get a job, pay some taxes (instead is living the life of a undeserving welfare leech) and then, perhaps then they’ll have the resources for an extra person on the helpdesk.
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March 29, 2012 9:54pm
HB

so if Nick Smith quit over this scandal, will John Key PM?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10795399

“PM lent support to Pullar’s insurance claim – reports”
7:55 PM Thursday Mar 29, 2012

“A leaked letter reportedly reveals that Prime Minister John Key lent his support to a multimillion-dollar private insurance claim by the woman at the centre of the ACC privacy breach.”
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March 29, 2012 10:36pm
Fletch

Wow Fletch – that is paranoia – the author of that ramble probably needs medicating.

mikenmild, well, please explain the reasons you think what I pasted is wrong. It’s not productive just saying ‘geez that’s crazy’. Please provide an argument.
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March 29, 2012 10:55pm

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