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March 25, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 March 2012

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General Debate

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Other_Andy

@Griff

Thermal energy is one of the other energy sources New Zealand has in abundance.
There are more than a hundred thermal hotspots in the North Island alone, Waiwera, Parakai Ngawha Springs, Tairua, Miranda, Kawhia et. Etc.
Clean, renewable and inexhaustible….
That leaves oil, coal (CTL) and gas (GTL) for transport.
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March 25, 2012 8:46pm
bereal

Thanks for that nasska.
Apply the same math to our country.

1960 no muslims

2000 1% muslims (over 45,000 of them in the census)

I am old enough to remember when our local dairy and gas station was run by a mom and pop local.

Now,,, every dairy, every gas station, every hardware store………..every taxi…….

and some shitheads still think that sharia law and radical islam can never gain a purchase in New Zealand.

i just thank sweet Jesus that i will have passed on before the inevitable happens.

But, We still have a last chance to wake up and save ourselves.
It’s now a very long shot.
We need a’ Daniel,come to Justice ‘ to wake up the masses.
i fear that even should he come it will be too late now. We have our very own ignorant fifth colunn
like muken mild and scott chris.
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March 25, 2012 9:03pm
Griff

The more options we have the more reliable the energy supply.

The possibility of creating a significant generation capacity closer to Auckland is a logical step forward as you state Miranda Waiwera, Parakai are all close options for geothermal.there is also the wind resources available on Aucklands west coast. When there was a large wined farm proposed on the southside of the manukau harbor it was stopped mostly by a local who was afraid it would scare the horses.To stop development for such an inane reason amazes and horrifies me.
There is also the interesting fact that the east coast and west coast Auckland tides are out of sinc by about four hours this would allow tidal production in Auckland You could use otara lagoon as a reservoir and the tides as the energy source and have a continuous tidal generating capacity. Of course the maori would not allow us to mix the water from the harbors .
I know its unpopular with the rest of the country but Auckland is so significant for our economy it should be recognized as the power house of New Zealand that it is
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March 25, 2012 9:18pm
Other_Andy

@Griff
Using windmills is about the worst technology, economically and environmentally, to use for energy generation. They are expensive, they wreck the landscape, building them causes environmental damage (Rare Earth metals and concrete, access roads, transmission lines), they kill birds and bats and they drive people (and animals) who live close to them crazy. They also need conventional back-up for when the wind doesn’t blow or blows too hard.
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March 25, 2012 9:33pm
bereal

Regarding windmills.
What ever the down side may be .
We must never loose sight of how grouse it makes our green friends feel when they see
the landscape blotted.
It must be worth plenty when it makes them feel sooooooooooooooooo good.
Think of all the oil it is saving.
Surely that has to count for plenty,

Shit. how does it matter whether they work or not.
Just feel good baby.
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March 25, 2012 9:44pm
Pete George

I am old enough to remember when our local dairy and gas station was run by a mom and pop local.

I’m getting old but I can still remember who served me today, I think mum and dad local were out the back because I think it was daughter local who served me, didn’t look ME, more asian but her accent was as Kiwi as.

BTW, “mom and pop” is not local vernacular, where are you from?

and some shitheads still think that sharia law and radical islam can never gain a purchase in New Zealand.

I don’t see why it should, I don’t see any real sign of it happening and there’s no reason for it to happen here. There’s a lot more important things to worry about. We might all be Ratanised. Or Tamakised, that’s grown faster and they’ve already tried to do politics.
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March 25, 2012 9:48pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Not regarding windmills.
Heard of any anticipated invasions later bereal?
Weren’t we expecting one early last century?
What about a trogan horse with some of your favourite people inside
for example. You could talk that one up.
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March 25, 2012 9:51pm
Other_Andy

@Pete George

“I don’t see why it should, I don’t see any real sign of it happening and there’s no reason for it to happen here.”

Maybe you should have a look at what is happening all over Europe and in Australia.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2367/european-muslim-no-go-zones
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/how-i-lost-faith-in-multiculturalism/story-fn59niix-1226031793805
Of course it won’t happen in New Zealand.
And you base that assumption on…what exactly?

The pressure is on
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/6406555/Collins-dismisses-call-to-establish-Islamic-tourism
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March 25, 2012 10:08pm
bereal

Poor old Pete George @ 9.48

” I don’t see why it should, I don’t see any real sign of it happening and there’s no reason for it to happen here.”

Who gives a fuck about whether you see it happening here or not noddy.
Just answer this.
Why do you think that New Zealand will be the only country on earth where it will NOT happen ?
There is nothing more important to worry about, and guess what.
Your mokupuna will agree with me one day and hold you in contempt. If you disagree, then you must have a reply.

That is the question Noddy.

What is your answer ?

i’m asking you , Pete George.
Why will we be different ?

Also, Nostalgia-NZ…. duh ! WTF ?

But more importantly, why will New Zealand be different Pete George ?
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March 25, 2012 10:11pm
Griff

I am well aware with the down sides of wind I live with a wind/solar system for domestic energy. The lifespan of the smaller generating wind units I am using seems to be about ten years with 0 maintenance This is hanging of the back of a boat and running 24/7 I would expect to get significantly more life out of an industrial unit. I only replaced my last unit when it was ten years old because the cost of repairing it was about half the cost of replacing it with an updated unit.The machine sits about 4 m from my sleeping cabin and the noise and vibration are insignificant I have seen a sea gull hit one at full speed preety messy.Wind is closer to economic here then in most continental countries.We have had major problems in the past with hydro running out of water Most who post on here will remember the crisis that the oil shocks caused NZ in the early seventy’s Having a distributed and varied energy generating capacity would leave us less vulnerable in the event of these sorts of situations.
I am not suggesting subsidized wind generation.There does seem to be an interest in some wind capacity from the commercial sector
There is also an opportunity to encourage distributed solar generation if there is a reasonable price for grid tie generated alternative energy.The cost of solar has fallen significantly in the last five years and there are lots of idiot middle class greenies that we could rip off for cheap generating capacity. This would be a better idea than entrenching the treaty when we sell the generating companies.The maori could not complain if this was marketed well and would also be acceptable to the greenish
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March 25, 2012 10:21pm
Nostalgia-NZ

okay bereal I never seriously expected you
to go for the trojan horse one again.
So how about an invasion of chocolate fish?
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March 25, 2012 10:22pm
Other_Andy

@Pete

You should read this Pete.

How I lost faith in multiculturalism
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/how-i-lost-faith-in-multiculturalism/story-fn59niix-1226031793805

Then visit Lakemba in Sydney and have a look for yourself.
And if you want to see what Leakemba will look like in 10-20 years time visit some of the muslim enclaves in London, Rotterdam Berlin, Oslo, Paris, Marseille….
I have been in some of them. Have you?

You’ll find that the real world is ‘slightly’ different when not viewed through rose tinted glasses in an armchair at home in ‘good old’ New Zealand.
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March 25, 2012 10:28pm
Pete George

bereal, our laws are changed via our Parliament by majority vote, I’m not aware of anything in the pipeline there.

There are many other more important things. Like actual things.
More jobs would make a big difference.
Less people smoking themselves to poor health and death would make a difference.
Less violence that ruins kids whole lives, maims and kills would make a big difference.
Less obesity would improve and extend a lot of lives.
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March 25, 2012 10:37pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Other_Andy

I’ve read a couple of your links but they’re hardly persuasive toward your predictions of non-military invasions, or certainly not proof of the same. They rely on a the principle of something slowly happening to which resistance is impossible. I think I prefer the ‘fear’ of actual military invasions rather than ones warning everyone to look under their beds for what will happen in the future. I see what you ‘report’ will happen in the future, but I don’t see the actuality of it nor the idea that kiwis are blind to the world they live in or unable to determine their own will. Apart from that, I go along with everything you say.
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March 25, 2012 10:47pm
Other_Andy

@N-NZ

“…but I don’t see the actuality of it nor the idea that kiwis are blind to the world they live in or unable to determine their own will. ”

You not seeing the actuallity of it doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Most Europeans didn’t see it coming and now wished they had seen it.
Too late….
I have seen it happening and I don’t want New Zealand to end up like that.
Again, the article in the Australian might change your mind.
It is a dicussion we are still allowed to have in Australia and New Zealand.
In Europe you do not always have that freedom anymore.
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March 25, 2012 11:14pm
Fletch

re: Windmills: in China where they make the magnets for these windmills, the countrysides are being transformed into lakes of poison – the byproduct of making them.

The reality is that, as Britain flaunts its environmental credentials by speckling its coastlines and unspoiled moors and mountains with thousands of wind turbines, it is contributing to a vast man-made lake of poison in northern China. This is the deadly and sinister side of the massively profitable rare-earths industry that the ‘green’ companies profiting from the demand for wind turbines would prefer you knew nothing about.

Hidden out of sight behind smoke-shrouded factory complexes in the city of Baotou, and patrolled by platoons of security guards, lies a five-mile wide ‘tailing’ lake. It has killed farmland for miles around, made thousands of people ill and put one of China’s key waterways in jeopardy.

This vast, hissing cauldron of chemicals is the dumping ground for seven million tons a year of mined rare earth after it has been doused in acid and chemicals and processed through red-hot furnaces to extract its components.

Rusting pipelines meander for miles from factories processing rare earths in Baotou out to the man-made lake where, mixed with water, the foul-smelling radioactive waste from this industrial process is pumped day after day. No signposts and no paved roads lead here, and as we approach security guards shoo us away and tail us. When we finally break through the cordon and climb sand dunes to reach its brim, an apocalyptic sight greets us: a giant, secret toxic dump, made bigger by every wind turbine we build.

The lake instantly assaults your senses. Stand on the black crust for just seconds and your eyes water and a powerful, acrid stench fills your lungs.

For hours after our visit, my stomach lurched and my head throbbed. We were there for only one hour, but those who live in Mr Yan’s village of Dalahai, and other villages around, breathe in the same poison every day.

Retired farmer Su Bairen, 69, who led us to the lake, says it was initially a novelty – a multi-coloured pond set in farmland as early rare earth factories run by the state-owned Baogang group of companies began work in the Sixties.

‘At first it was just a hole in the ground,’ he says. ‘When it dried in the winter and summer, it turned into a black crust and children would play on it. Then one or two of them fell through and drowned in the sludge below. Since then, children have stayed away.’

As more factories sprang up, the banks grew higher, the lake grew larger and the stench and fumes grew more overwhelming.

‘It turned into a mountain that towered over us,’ says Mr Su. ‘Anything we planted just withered, then our animals started to sicken and die.’

People too began to suffer. Dalahai villagers say their teeth began to fall out, their hair turned white at unusually young ages, and they suffered from severe skin and respiratory diseases. Children were born with soft bones and cancer rates rocketed.

Official studies carried out five years ago in Dalahai village confirmed there were unusually high rates of cancer along with high rates of osteoporosis and skin and respiratory diseases. The lake’s radiation levels are ten times higher than in the surrounding countryside, the studies found.

Since then, maybe because of pressure from the companies operating around the lake, which pump out waste 24 hours a day, the results of ongoing radiation and toxicity tests carried out on the lake have been kept secret and officials have refused to publicly acknowledge health risks to nearby villages.

MORE – http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html

So yeh greenies, when you see windmills like this and congratulate yourselves, think of the lakes of poison on the landscape and people getting ill and dying to help make the windmills. And this is environmentalism at work? Pfft, progress…
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March 25, 2012 11:38pm
labours a joke

“The Office of Ethnic Affairs, which costs $6 million a year to run, urged the new minister to raise awareness of halal tourism as an “emerging opportunity”. It defines halal tourism as incorporating activities and services that are in keeping with Islamic law.

Countries such as Malaysia and Turkey encouraged it by offering separate beaches, swimming pools and spas, separate aircraft seating for men and women, hotels free of alcohol, gambling and pork, and halal food and a Koran in aircraft seat pockets.”

Piss off. Close this pathetic govt dept. Separate beaches , swimming pools etc..why do we even bother to entertain the idea? If you dont like the way NZ is Mr Muslim…dont come here.
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March 25, 2012 11:47pm
eszett

So yeh greenies, when you see windmills like this and congratulate yourselves, think of the lakes of poison on the landscape and people getting ill and dying to help make the windmills. And this is environmentalism at work? Pfft, progress…

lol, Fletch, I think you may want to expand your reading library a wee bit. It helps you expand your mind a bit, and if there is something in dire need of expanding,your mind is certainly right up there.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2010/09/rare-earth_metals

With worldwide demand for rare-earth metals amounting to 134,000 tons last year, and only 124,000 tons being produced, the difference has had to be made up from dwindling stockpiles. By 2012, demand is expected to reach 180,000 tons, which could exhaust the world’s remaining inventory. The result has been panic throughout industrial countries.

What makes the rare earths so special is the way they can react with other elements to get results that neither could achieve alone. They are used, a pinch here and a pinch there, to make powerful permanent magnets for lightweight electric motors, phosphors for colour television and flat-panel displays, catalysts for cars and chemical refineries, rechargeable batteries for hybrid and electric cars, generators for wind turbines, as well as numerous optical, medical and military devices. To give just one example, every Toyota Prius has over 25 pounds of lanthanum in its nickel-metal hydride battery.

A misnomer if ever there was one, the rare earths may be strategic and in short supply but they are certainly not rare. Some are as abundant in the earth’s crust as nickel, copper, zinc or lead. Even the two rarest (thulium and lutetium) are around 200 times more common than gold. Minerals containing rare-earth elements are to be found all over the world, especially where iron deposits paint the landscape as red as northern Arizona. The largest source today is a by-product of China’s huge iron-ore mining operations in Inner Mongolia.

The problem is that, though widely dispersed, the rare-earth elements occur in extremely low concentrations. Only a handful or so places exist—in Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, India, South Africa and the United States—where deposits have been found rich enough to justify mining them. Even then, abundance in their host minerals is usually measured in concentrations of a percent or two.

There is a huge problem looming around these rare earth metals and it’s certainly not just driven by windmills and Priuses. It’s nearly in everything we use every day. It is used in every generator, regardless it’s coal, gas, nuclear, hydro or wind.
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March 26, 2012 12:48am
Twinkletoes

I would be extremely surprised if Sharia law was not being practiced in NZ since the first wave of muslim immigration. As long as both parties agree to abide by the decisions of the imams or mullahs there is no reason to think that the muslim residents are not using Sharia for civil cases where women are pressured to abide by the rules of their culture instead of using the fairer legal NZ system.

This, as in UK, is the first step to demanding their own courts – over there they used the small claims court system to bypass British jurisdiction and when it came to light the Labour Government bowed down and legalised Sharia Courts. There are now over one hundred Sharia courts which in many cases flagrantly flout the extent of their mandate. In one case where one Somali male stabbed another Somali male the Sharia court ruled that the perpetrator was free to go upon payment of 10,000 sterling to the defendant. The money was duly paid.

So somewhere in UK walking free to strike again is a dangerous man who should have been prosectuted for GBH. No criminal record, so unknown to the police and absent from the UK criminal data base. Wonderful!

There is no reason to think that this is not happening on the quiet in every western country muslims have settled in – now they have extracted this first small but very important concession in UK they will demand all Western countries provide the same, citing UK as the ultimate bastion of civilisation (when it suits them)!

And, in special circumstances they are legally allowed to practice polygamy – each wife entitled to subsidised accomodation and welfare benefits.

This is what happens when Labour Govts., become desparate for votes to keep themselves in power. Traitors selling out their own citizens. And just look at what is happening, muslim gangs pimping out British schoolgirls to their mates, paedophlia gangs, Muslim police/ socialworkers telling the families of where their muslim wives/daughters have run to for safe havens to escape forced marriages and abuse.

As Aisha, Mohammed’s youngest wife said “There is no one who suffers as much as a muslim women”. Well, now it is the non muslim women as well, and don’t start me on Oslo/Malmo rape situation where virtually all rapes are muslim on non-muslim (male and female) – hundreds per annum.

They do not immigrate to integrate – they imigrate only to dominate. They began as a parastic ideology and judging by how many are on welfare in UK they are continuing their quest very successfully.
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March 26, 2012 3:40am
Nostalgia-NZ

Other_Andy
11.14

You are right it is a discussion that we are ‘allowed’ (entitled) to have.
And it is important that we clearly understand it as time progresses.
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March 26, 2012 7:17am
joana

Pete George , labours ajoke etc.
Several years ago I saw a proposal for a multicultural Act with a big write up by some new arrival at CHCH polytech. No doubt this Act is still simmering in the background somewhere..Every time cuts have been announced , I have questioned the need for Ethnic Affairs..What a disgrace Wong was .
Pete ,
Have you traveled to the places Other Andy mentioned?
Thanks Bereal.
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March 26, 2012 7:34am
Fletch

eszett, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your quote?
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March 26, 2012 9:06am

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