General Debate 20 March 2012

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Pete George

I’ve seen some nasty stuff online over the past few weeks, away from politics.

Confronting the real abuse

I have been witnessing an online campaign of abuse, false and unsubstantiated accusation, character assassination, misrepresentation of identities, attempts to shut down speech, attempts to shut down organisations. It has ranged from annoying to disgraceful.

And that’s not the worst of it. Others have linked some of this to criminal and mental health histories, death threats, even incest. This is associated with people who present themselves as working against abuse – some of them are the worst of abusers.

It puts political bickering into perspective, although it does show how bad fighting and abusing can degenerate on an unregulated web.
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March 20, 2012 8:03am
krazykiwi

false and unsubstantiated accusation, character assassination

Good to see you opposed to this stuff these days Pete.
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March 20, 2012 8:07am
Scott Chris

Gen Xers Turned Away From Bar For “Being Too Old”

But upon arrival Mr Allan, who moved to Tauranga from Whakatane six months ago, said he and three of his friends were told by the bouncer that they could not go in because it was a student bar and they were too old.

Fair enough really. If the bar wants to turn away paying customers then that’s their business I guess.
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March 20, 2012 8:08am
Scott Chris

Bill Maher Verses Bill O’Reilly

Couple of years old, but a great duel.
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March 20, 2012 8:15am
Michaels

This is most interesting. The photo caption of NZ Firsts office above Fantasy Internet a week or so ago.
Well it is actually the Clown from Campbells Bays office. Yeah yeah nothing interesting there. But if the photo was taken from the other side of the building one would find a PUB there.
Now that’s handy for Andy.
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March 20, 2012 8:20am
barry

Well DPF – Im surprised that youve missed the pacific opportunity of the year.

The idiot from Tonga dies in some foreign hospital and ………………….

We should all get ready for grand exhibitions of waste and stupidity while they get rid of him and implant his wasting replacement in that awful palace……

Snd we give these buggers aid money ……….
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March 20, 2012 8:45am
RightNow

Lower Climate Sensitivity Estimates: New Good News
“A collection of research results have been published in the peer-reviewed scientific literature in recent months that buoys my hopes for a low-end climate sensitivity.”
http://www.masterresource.org/2012/03/lower-climate-sensitivity-estimates/#more-19240
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March 20, 2012 9:05am
adze

Scott Chris
That’s surprising coming from you. If I knew a bar was preventing people coming in because they were “too old” I wouldn’t go in on principle (and I’d consider a complaint to the HRC if I was the one originally barred entry on that basis). To me it’s no different to excluding by skin colour or gender.
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March 20, 2012 9:12am
joana

I agree Adze..and it furthers this awful only mixing by age group mentality which came in some years ago.
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March 20, 2012 9:18am
joana

Who on here possibly believes that the children and rabbi murdered and wounded in France were attacked by ”French” gunmen?
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March 20, 2012 9:22am
kowtow

White,heterosexual male discriminated against………that’s no cause for hysterical liberal left faux outrage,move along there,nothing to see.

If anything they deserve to be insulted and excluded so they can experience what it’s like for the the oppressed and marginalised of our unequal society whose daily life is made up of many such incidents.
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March 20, 2012 9:26am
Griff

2010 the warmest on record
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17432194

Researchers have updated HadCRUT – one of the main global temperate records, which dates back to 1850.

One of the main changes is the inclusion of more data from the Arctic region, which has experienced one of the greatest levels of warming.

The amendments do not change the long-term trend, but the data now lists 2010, rather than 1998, as the warmest year on record.
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March 20, 2012 9:39am
Dazzaman

Mmmm, not really kowtow. Justin Allen, I expect would have an idea about the “oppressed & marginalised”…..he is a good Shannon boy after all.
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March 20, 2012 9:48am
RightNow

Wow, turns out global warming is caused by humans after all – humans adjusting the temperature records 😉
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March 20, 2012 9:48am
Manolo

The Messiah running out of scapegoats. Now blames Fox News: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74181.html
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March 20, 2012 9:53am
Manolo

Nanny New York State: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/no_kugel_for_you_N4VuTrqavfOiApSHngxuMJ
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March 20, 2012 9:55am
Griff

RightNow
You are indeed a useful idiot. Any thing to muddy the waters is it not.
You just posted a link that supports climate change

Better go back to your Alt science websites before you suffer from cognitive dissonance.
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March 20, 2012 10:29am
wreck1080

This ACC privacy breach blows out by the day.

Nick Smith should be sacked.

To me, it appears he is using his position in Government to help a friends medical claim be approved by ACC.

Surely this borders on corruption?
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March 20, 2012 10:45am
RightNow

Lol Griff, what do you mean “You just posted a link that supports climate change”? Don’t you know I’m a “climate denier”?

Incidentally I do support climate change, I’d like it to be warmer here in Wellington, but that’s got nothing to do with the link I posted, which is about a number of peer reviewed research results.

You’re funny.
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March 20, 2012 10:51am
Scott Chris

If I knew a bar was preventing people coming in because they were “too old” I wouldn’t go in on principle

Adze, I agree. You vote with your feet. Surely it should be up to a patron as to which rules he sets on his own property provided they do not cause significant harm.

For example, Joanna might want to establish a bar that excludes Muslims from entering. In my opinion, her decision to be racist on her own property is her right.
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March 20, 2012 10:53am
Scott Chris

Wow, turns out global warming is caused by humans after all – humans adjusting the temperature records

Wow – Turns out that people who assert this falsehood don’t understand the calibration process.
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March 20, 2012 10:55am
iMP

I think it’ll transpire that the ‘French’ gunman is some sort of sectarian (Islamist, Anti-Semite). His ethnicity has nothing to do with it, like being “Irish” amidst the terrorism of Northern Ireland (being Catholic or Protestant was more relevant). What the person believes is more relevant than his stated ethnicity or nationhood. Braivik in Norway showed us that.
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March 20, 2012 10:58am
RightNow

Now scotty, I’m not saying you’re a knob-gobbling halfwit (I’m typing it) but if you read the article Griff linked to it says:

“Research has shown readings from buckets were generally cooler so when the database changes from one source to another, you see artifical jumps in the temperature.

“We have quantified these effects and corrected them, providing a clearer view of the evolution of global temperatures.”

Tu comprends?
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March 20, 2012 11:04am
Sofia

Pete George – I’ve seen some nasty stuff online over the past few weeks, away from politics. Confronting the real abuse
and from your website, Pete –
Transparency should not just be in one direction – it’s time a light was shone on those abusive hypocrites behind this.

It is a little difficult to even tell from your links who is doing what to whom.
Not much light seems to be shining anywhere
Maybe that is why no one comments on your comment
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March 20, 2012 11:39am
All_on_Red

Scotty,
And you understand the process? Wow, you must be psychic or Phil Jones as HADCru doesnt document the method they use to adjust the raw date given to them by UK Met (info back to 1650)and USHCN.

Its quite something to see how many times the raw data has been “adjusted”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/03/19/crus-new-hadcrut4-hiding-the-decline-yet-again-2/#more-59625

Then we have James Hansen (do you know who he is?) saying;

“The U.S. has warmed during the past century, but the warming hardly exceeds year-to-year variability. Indeed, in the U.S. the warmest decade was the 1930s and the warmest year was 1934”
He also said that the ‘record warming’ in 2010 was “statisically insignificant”

Both you and Griff are in denial of how you have been manipulated and fooled.
A question for you both. Which do you think is more accurate? Land based or satellite measurement systems?
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March 20, 2012 11:39am
kowtow

“knob gobbling half wit” te he he.

Scotty, Islam is a religious ideology not a race. So if joana wanted to bar em it certainly wouldn’t be “racism”.
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March 20, 2012 12:04pm
RightNow

Not to mention that Muslims don’t (or aren’t meant to) drink alcohol, so there’s economic reasons for a bar owner to prevent them taking up seats that could be filled by more profitable customers.
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March 20, 2012 12:08pm
Weihana

# Scott Chris (3,983) Says:
March 20th, 2012 at 8:08 am

Gen Xers Turned Away From Bar For “Being Too Old”

But upon arrival Mr Allan, who moved to Tauranga from Whakatane six months ago, said he and three of his friends were told by the bouncer that they could not go in because it was a student bar and they were too old.

Fair enough really. If the bar wants to turn away paying customers then that’s their business I guess.

From stuff,

Justin Allan, managing director of Transbay Coaches in Whakatane, said he, his girlfriend and four male friends, aged between 29 and 39, planned to go to Tauranga’s Temple Bar last Saturday after a barbecue.

Talk about sausage fest. 🙂

Perhaps that’s the real reason they were denied. Kinda silly that a bar in Tauranga tries to be a little bit exclusive, but perhaps they are trying to market an image and that image might require a certain female to male ratio.

Bars probably full of tossers anyway. Best go elsewhere where they aren’t so pretentious.
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March 20, 2012 12:10pm
Griff

Ah someone posting alt science from A watt
Argue with science not the lies and bullshit that A Watt posts on WUWT (wank untill warm thickos)
The records were re visited due to A watts continued wanking
Its called Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature
http://www.berkeleyearth.org/
Dr. Muller sums their results up nicely in his Wall Street Journal opinion article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204422404576594872796327348.html

When we began our study, we felt that skeptics had raised legitimate issues, and we didn’t know what we’d find. Our results turned out to be close to those published by prior groups. We think that means that those groups had truly been very careful in their work, despite their inability to convince some skeptics of that.

In short who is the fool? You for reading alt science blogs and confusing lobbyist with scientist or me and Scott who read the work of the scientific experts
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March 20, 2012 12:23pm
calendar girl

Like wreck1080 @ 10.45am, I’m perplexed by the revelation about Nick Smith’s Ministerial involvement in support of his political friend, an ACC claimant. His acknowledgement of an “error of judgement” is worrying from such an experienced Minister of the Crown. The country could benefit from understanding, for example, the circumstances in which that error occurred, including all relevant events and representations before and afterwards, and whether it was a totally isolated instance of ministerial intervention.

New Zealand has an unsettling recent history of “excessive enthusiasm” shown by Ministers and MPs in support of specific immigration applications. We need to have complete confidence that lessons have been learned well from improper conduct revealed during that period (not only the behaviour for which Phillip Field was convicted). It seems to me that there may need to be a more explicit Code of Conduct covering Ministers and MPs who undertake advocacy on behalf of individuals, companies or other entities, with a public register of all related meetings and correspondence.

In my view Mr Smith should step down from all ministerial duties in the present circumstances while an independent inquiry is conducted by a respected, disinterested party.
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March 20, 2012 12:28pm
All_on_Red

Griff,
Your denial is stopping you from reading the science expressed and linked to in the post.You should try really hard to battle that. You may learn how ignorant you are and how you have actually been fooled.
And thanks for mentioning BEST. It just proves my point on the inaccuracy on land based temps.
Also BEST has hardly started and the project has so much more work to do. (Nice try though but shows how little you know)
A little multi choice for you.
Which is the margin of error on over 70% of the land based Temp measurements taken from Stephenson Screens (USHCN data)?
a) .1 degree
b) .5 degree
c) 1 degree
d) > 2 degrees

If its b, c or d then the data from HadCru and GISS is a joke. (and yes we are laughing)

Dont you believe the RSS and UAH data?
Why not?
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March 20, 2012 12:34pm
excusesofpuppets

I really like Nick Smith. Of all the ministers in this government his public persona seems one of the better ones. Very open and as honest as he can be. He has had to make some pretty tough political decisions and seems like the kind of guy to ride them out. An excellent lieutenant for a government.

He has made some errors of judgement, but he seems to be quite open to acknowledge them. It would be a real shame to see him go over this. This reference was quite a large error of judgement on his part, but I do think this government will be weaker, and thus the country will be weaker without him.
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March 20, 2012 12:37pm
Paulus

Am concerned not solely with the appropriateness of Smith’s letter to the ACC claimant,
but to another matter possibly more important.
The Herald says that it was given a copy of the letter from an ACC claimant.
Which poses the question as to who in ACC gave her the letter ?
Looks as smelly as the letter itself.
ACC staff member with an agenda ? Yea – good public servant.
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March 20, 2012 12:38pm
Scott Chris

And you understand the process?

Sure. You’ll find that whenever datasets have been adjusted, the method and the rationale will be described if adjusted within that paper, or the source of the data set will be cited so that that data adjustment methodology can be scrutinized.

Scientific method relies on complete transparency and traceability. Doesn’t matter if data has been adjusted up or down, what matters is attaining the most accurate representation of what is real.

For instance, the Agos dataset has been analysed, revised and adjusted several times according to different methods and statistical hypotheses which naturally leads to suspicion and speculation among certain sectors of the community and which is then exploited by politically motivated idiots like Anthony Watts.
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March 20, 2012 12:46pm
Put it away

What became of maggie aka Peter Freedman? Did I miss something…
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March 20, 2012 12:50pm
Griff

Its not a matter for belief its the facts that count to me. of cause you alties have a different world view.

WUWT is not science its climate change denial
I have read many many links placed on here that refer to WUWT and other Alt science blogs. I have also gone to the original research quoted on these blogs. After twenty or so times of finding that the papers that are linked to are grossly misrepresented or cheery picked I have come to the well found conclusion that all this blog material it just the wanking of nutters.

Try googling climate change .edu or .govt For a more realistic view of climate change

Of course all the scientific community and world governments are in collusion in a huge conspiracy to sell a total lie and a few alt science web sites are the only ones that know the truth

ya right Nutter alert
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March 20, 2012 12:56pm
RightNow

PIA – I suspect he’s recovering from an episode or three.

scotty – did you understand my comment earlier? The re-calibrations were to SST and corrected a previous warming trend. The new warming trend increase in hadcrut4 is due to more stations from Arctic regions making past temperature averages cooler.

Now I’d like to know why surface and air temperatures are suddenly in vogue again when I thought ocean heat content was meant to be the gospel?
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March 20, 2012 12:57pm
RightNow

griff – surely you have no issue with the peer reviewed research I linked to earlier though?

Here’s the references – any problems with these?
Environmetrics, doi:10.1002/env.2140

Geophysical Research Letters, 39, L01704, doi:10.1029/2011GL050226

Journal of Geophysical Research, 117, D04101, doi:10.1029/2011JD016620

Journal of Climate, 24, 5521-5537, doi:10.1175/2011JCL13989.1

Science, 344, 1385-1388, DOI: 10.1126/science.1203513
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March 20, 2012 1:01pm
Griff

Put it away
I think that he released after having his head kicked in by just about the entire community on here that he was not particularly wanted
or maybe sucking the lithium out of his cell phone battery worked.
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March 20, 2012 1:05pm
kowtow

Update on the Benghazi war grave outrage.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/03/libyan-police-too-scared-to-jail-thugs-who-desecrated-british-wwii-graveyard-said-to-be-linked-to-al.html
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March 20, 2012 1:16pm
All_on_Red

Scott

“You’ll find that whenever datasets have been adjusted, the method and the rationale will be described if adjusted within that paper, or the source of the data set’

Really? Not in the case of HadCru and funnily enough our very own NIWA. Court case coming soon on that one.
But please feel free to provide links showing the adjustments.You really should read that link I gave as it sets it all out. You wont of course as no one likes to have their “beliefs” shattered.

Isnt it noticable that the “sceptics” keep providing Peer Reviewed Scientific papers and the warmists cant. All they can provide is content fee comment and vague smears.
And avoid questions about facts..

Griff, since you have read so much. Answer these;
How much is sea level rise at present?
Whats that state of the Ice in Antarctica and the Arctic?
Have extreme weather events actually increased in the past 30 years?
How much has the global temp actually risen in the last 30 years?
Have the ‘hot spots” been found in the troposphere?
Where is the evidence of secondary radiative forcing between CO2 and water vapour?
Do clouds provide negative or positive feedbacks?
Where is the missing heat? -hahaha -just kidding- there isnt any
I could go on but know its pointless as you will both just put your hands over your ears and run back to desmogblog/ Real Climate etc to get your talking points.
Suckers.
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March 20, 2012 1:26pm
Griff

All_on_Red

You are keen on wanking with watts grow up and read science not denial sites
WIKI and I know you denier nutters hate wiki

Climate model results summarized by the IPCC in their third assessment show overall good agreement with the satellite temperature record. In particular both models and satellite record show a global average warming trend for the troposphere (models range for TLT/T2LT 0.6 – 0.39°C/decade; avg 0.2°C/decade) and a cooling of the stratosphere (models range for TLS/T4 -0.7 – 0.08°C/decade; avg -0.25°C/decade).[35]

Right Now
I can not access any of your papers You would have pulled the references from wanking with watts or similar
As I have pointed out to you i the past your argument is inconsistent and erratic mostly because it deals in doubt not facts. The only reference to your papers i could Google was for one that has just been released and the abstract does not give any detail for or against the present consensus of up to six degrees warming by the end of this century.
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March 20, 2012 1:43pm
iMP

Once you read Nick Smith’s ministerial letter you see it is totally innocuous. He tries to assist but is at pains to distance himself from impropriety or undue influence. I think it was fine, and good on Nats for releasing it (hardly something Helen Clark would ever have done, rather gave it to Chrissy Carter to hide or take a fall for).
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March 20, 2012 1:44pm
grumpyoldhori

Wonder if the Catholic church castrated kids for being whistle blowers in either Aus or NZ ? it would not be a surprise.
Now to have raving xtians defending the Catholic church and it’s actions.
I can hear it now, but but, they are not as bad as the Muslims.

Catholic priests being grilled over a fire after being denackered would be a fitting end for the scum if they are child abusers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9153676/Dutch-Roman-Catholic-Church-castrated-at-least-10-boys.html

http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/forced-castrations-reportedly-found-roman-catholic-care
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March 20, 2012 2:09pm
RightNow

Oh griff, you’re so woefully inept. Leave it to those of us with genuinely open minds, don’t worry your little one.

Here’s a hint though, you can get to all of those articles from my earlier link. Of course I’ll understand if you’re too scared to have your mind opened a little.
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March 20, 2012 2:13pm
joana

Scott ,
Muslims are not supposed to drink alcohol. It is like dog breath , haram. But of course many of them do drink alcohol..in bars in other countries , on secluded beaches in their own countries..they bury the bottles in the sand..on planes heading out of muslim countries after they have removed their identifying garb in the toilet..As the old saying goes , rules are made to be broken. The wealthier they are , the more likely they are to have a wine cellar.
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March 20, 2012 2:34pm
nasska

grumpyoldhori

Good find. From: http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/time-truth-about-catholic-sex-abuse-netherlands

….”It’s now clear that the critics were right when they complained that a church-installed commission of inquiry could not, or would not, get to the bottom of the abuse scandal.”…..

I wonder why I’m not surprised.
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March 20, 2012 2:55pm
Scott Chris

But please feel free to provide links showing the adjustments.

This text gives some brief information about the datasets including:

Scientific papers that should be consulted for complete details and referenced if any of the datasets are used
Dataset terminology, file formats and downloads available
Station data used for generating CRUTEM3
Station data used for generating CRUTEM4 (from the Met Office website).
Answers to some frequently-asked questions
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March 20, 2012 3:03pm
Pete George

New research claims that Sea levels may rise 20m

The study has been published today in the journal ‘Geology’ by Professor Ken Miller from Rutgers University and an international team including Professor Tim Naish from Victoria University.

Researchers are 95 percent confident sea levels peaked at 22 metres higher three million years ago, when carbon dioxide levels were the same as now.

There will be some benefits – many sea food sources will naturally move closer to markets.

But the rise will take some time so we can keep belching smoke and not give a damn.
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March 20, 2012 3:03pm
bereal

i was amazed to discover yesterday that in New Zealand it is not a crime for an Aids infected person to have sex with another who was unaware of their condition so long as the infected person took such steps as they (the Aids carrier)
deemed to make the act “safe sex.” (even if the parrtner is infected, the Aids positive partner has done nothing wrong.)

It does seem to me that the homosexual lobby has managed to skew common sense to suit their members to the detriment of the rest of the community.
Who else, except mainly homosexuals could benefit from this parlous state of affairs ?

As was pointed out yesterday on GD, the ACC dept will pay out damages to a person who is traumatised by finding out they have been having sex with a person who knew that they were an Aids carrier and said nothing, but it is not an offence against the Law.

Is there one homosexual or any person at all who would be able to explain why this is a fair go for the unwitting
ignorant party ?
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March 20, 2012 3:21pm
Griff

In 2012 if you have unprotected sex with anyone you are asking for Arsehole Injected Death sentience specially if its bum sex.

ACC is a rort I am sick of paying for rip off and bullshit artists. If I could I would opt out.In 30odd years of paying high rates in dangerous industries I have never claimed a dime. Those that I know who have claimed have all been ripoffs or just stupid idiots that deserved their injuries.
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March 20, 2012 3:43pm
Elaycee

joana (1,147) Says: March 20th, 2012 at 9:22 am “Who on here possibly believes that the children and rabbi murdered and wounded in France were attacked by ”French” gunmen?

Jeez joana – Sky News UK is running the (lead) story that this gunman (riding the same model of black scooter that was used in two other recent shootings), may be one of three ex soldiers kicked out of the French military last September for being members of some neo-fascist group. They were outed and kicked out when photos surfaced of them wearing old Nazi clobber and doing Nazi salutes etc. There is currently a massive manhunt going on in the greater Toulouse area for this trio.

But if you know better, then feel free to call the Gendarmes in Toulouse – I’m sure they’ll take your call.
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March 20, 2012 3:48pm
joana

elaycee
Your sarcasm is ignorant and childish but go right ahead..believe all you read..
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March 20, 2012 4:01pm
Other_Andy

Straight from Griff and Scott’s hero…

Fact 1 – The rates of global warming from 1860-1880, 1910-1940 and 1975-1998 are identical.
There seems to be no relation between the temperature rise and the rise in CO2.
Fact 2 – From 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming.
There seems to be no relation between the temperature rise and the rise in CO2.
Fact 3 – From January 2002 to the present there has been global cooling 0f -0.12C
Again, there seems to be no relation between the global temperature and the rise in CO2.

Of course both Griff and Scott know who agrees with fact 1. 2 and 3.
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March 20, 2012 4:05pm
cha

Catholic priests being grilled over a fire after being denackered would be a fitting end for the scum if they are child abusers.

Happy happy, joy joy, the death notice of paedophile Ray Fargher has been published in the Dompost.

Fargher was convicted and imprisoned in 1969 for sodomising a Hamilton Boys High School fourth form class mate of mine.
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March 20, 2012 4:05pm
Elaycee

“joana (1,148) Says: March 20th, 2012 at 4:01 pm: “elaycee Your sarcasm is ignorant and childish but go right ahead..believe all you read.”

joana – its not a case of me believing all I read – you can check the facts for yourself if you wish. Sky News UK is currently running it as their lead story. Tune in to Sky News UK, or look it up for yourself on the internet. Or just keep on thinking that this is something else that fits your personal view….

Pffttt….
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March 20, 2012 4:17pm
bereal

Your not wrong there Griff.
i personally just love those envelopes with the warning on the cover, ‘Contains important levy information.”
When you are self employed you are bent over both ways. All you can do is suck it up.
Still, it’s not as bad now as when that total incompetant fuckwit pisshead Ruth Dyson was minister.
Now there was a fugley pisshead loon if there ever was one.

Point i was making above was re the way the homo lobby have skewed things to ensure bum bandits who knowingly infect their unwitting mates are immune from natural justice. At least what i would consider to be justice.

i guess Grant Robertson would have no problem if he found out Alf had given him a dose of aids when he was anaware Alf
was infected if Alf swore black and blue that he wore a frog. (or even if there was no frog, Alf swore that he pulled out before he came.)
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March 20, 2012 4:21pm
Scott Chris

Fact 1 – The rates of global warming from 1860-1880, 1910-1940 and 1975-1998 are identical.
There seems to be no relation between the temperature rise and the rise in CO2.
Fact 2 – From 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming.
There seems to be no relation between the temperature rise and the rise in CO2.
Fact 3 – From January 2002 to the present there has been global cooling 0f -0.12C
Again, there seems to be no relation between the global temperature and the rise in CO2.

Err – I don’t think so.

Here’s a nice graphic for you Andy.
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March 20, 2012 4:22pm
RightNow

Well I’m certainly looking forward to swimming at Wellington beaches without a wet-suit, like I could 15 years ago. When’s the warm water due to arrive scotty?

Or is it all hiding below 700m?
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March 20, 2012 4:47pm
Griff

Other Runty

Please use a name and link to your source.. I do not have heroes. I do respect real scientists not nutters on the fringe.like you hero worship some random high school dropout who blogs out of a suburban house.
Of course it will be wanking with watts or some other bunch of alt science weirdos cheery picking quotes You do Know that we are discussing climate and not weather ie decade long not yearly time frames Also a disjointed time sequence just shows you are spinning statistics to suit your belief and not the facts try

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17432194
2010 the warmest on record

And for you brother wrong now
from your link
“”New research efforts are beginning to provide evidence suggesting that the current estimates of the climate sensitivity should be better constrained and adjusted downwards”—–
“”If the true value of the climate sensitivity does turn out to exceed 6°C, then we will be in for what will probably turn out to be fairly disruptive climate change. Heck, even if the climate sensitivity lies much above 4.5°C, coming climate change will be substantial. I for one, would hope that it lies below 3°C, and actually turns out to be closer to 2°C.

The IPCC estermate for our present rate of increase in co2 is 6+degrees To hell in a hand basket for your kids.
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March 20, 2012 4:59pm
Fletch

Hansen’s “Hottest Year Ever” [2010] Is Primarily Based On Fabricated Data

https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/hansens-hottest-year-ever-is-primarily-based-on-fabricated-data/
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March 20, 2012 5:02pm
mikenmild

Does anyone else find bereal’s obsession with homosexual activities just a bit creepy?
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March 20, 2012 5:05pm
David Garrett

As a recovering Catholic I have long since ceased to be surprised by the appalling wrongs done by Catholic clergy in the name of God ..but even I was gobsmacked by that post above re castration of victims of abuse…I can dimly recall in the 70’s someone making an accusation against one of the brothers at my school and completely being disbelieved…but castration to stop them telling? Dear God…
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March 20, 2012 5:09pm
Fletch

David Garrett, if it happened, that would have to be a very, very rare event.
As a Catholic myself, I can’t excuse or condone such things, but I have to ask – do you think said priest would have been acting in accordance with what the Church teaches? Were his actions any worse then those of some secular child abusers?

Yes, people focus on the Church because it is supposed to be the moral compass, but I’d have to say that what he and others were doing were not of the Church and definitely not even Christian at all.
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March 20, 2012 5:15pm
nasska

David Garrett

I understand that in NZ they preferred to use advanced grooming techniques. Probably a couple of KitKats & a bag of chippies was a more successful ploy than the threat of an elastrator.
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March 20, 2012 5:18pm
RightNow

griff, “The IPCC estermate for our present rate of increase in co2 is 6+degrees”

In its Fourth Assessment Report (AR4), released in 2007, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) provided this general guidance on the climate sensitivity:

[The equilibrium climate sensitivity] is likely to be in the range 2°C to 4.5°C with a best estimate of about 3°C, and is very unlikely to be less than 1.5°C. Values substantially higher than 4.5°C cannot be excluded, but agreement of models with observations is not as good for those values.

In other words “mate, you’re dreaming”.

And are you seriously asserting that the range of projections from the IPCC in 2007 is better informed than more recent assessments in the peer reviewed literature? I think you’re the denier.

Look, this is a peer reviewed paper in Geophysical Research Letters
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2012/2011GL050226.shtml

Our analysis also leads to a relatively low and tightly-constrained estimate of Transient Climate Response of 1.3–1.8°C, and relatively low projections of 21st-century warming under the Representative Concentration Pathways. Repeating our attribution analysis with a second model (CNRM-CM5) gives consistent results, albeit with somewhat larger uncertainties.

To make it even more acceptable to you, it’s even referenced by Skeptical Science:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?n=1216

So what’s your objection to it?
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March 20, 2012 5:23pm
RightNow

Seriously, don’t you guys ever look at the figures showing model scenarios vs observed temperatures and think “oh the observations are much lower than the model forecasts”?

You’d have to be suffering serious cognitive impairment to maintain that projections of 6+deg C are realistic.
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March 20, 2012 5:27pm
bereal

Ok, mikenmild @5.05

You are the first one to bite.

So.
Do you agree that it is fine that, knowing you have aids, that it is Ok to have sex with someone who is anaware
that you are infected just as long as you (the infected party) takes such steps as you (the infected party) deems to be sufficient to make the sex act, ‘safe sex ‘ ? That is the question.

If so, why ?

You called me out mike, now you can go for it.
Just to make it crystal clear.
i feel the aids infected partner has an obligation to declare and then let the other make the call.
Show me where i am wrong ?
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March 20, 2012 5:29pm
nasska

Fletch

For about 400 years the Catholic Church used castrati in the Sistine Chapel Choir & the Catholic Church employed their last castrato as recently as 109 years ago. Pope Sixtus V issued a papal Bull in 1589 which approved the recruitment of castrati for the choir of St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome.

Old habits die hard.
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March 20, 2012 5:33pm
chiz

Free apps eat up your phone battery just sending ads.
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March 20, 2012 5:33pm
Nookin

Jury is back.
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March 20, 2012 5:37pm
MT_Tinman

“Elastrator”?

Bugger that, sharp knife or razor blade.
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March 20, 2012 5:44pm
adze

The Urewera 4 have been found guilty on some of the firearms charges but the jury were “unable to reach a verdict” on the organised crime charges.
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March 20, 2012 5:45pm
nasska

MT Tinman

Agree but this is a family blog & the townies get a a bit squeamish.
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March 20, 2012 5:48pm
Other_Andy

Scott Chris (3,989) Says:
Err – I don’t think so.

Check the reference Scott…
Have you left the “Dark Side”?

Griff (1,708) Says:
Please use a name and link to your source.. I do not have heroes. I do respect real scientists not nutters on the fringe.like you hero worship some random high school dropout who blogs out of a suburban house.

You got me there griff.
It isn’t a real scientists. While maybe not a ‘nutter on the fringe’, definitely somebody with an agenda and economical with the truth .
It’s Phil Jones, director of the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia

Q&A: Professor Phil Jones

The BBC’s environment analyst Roger Harrabin put questions to Professor Jones, including several gathered from climate sceptics. The questions were put to Professor Jones with the co-operation of UEA’s press office.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm
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March 20, 2012 6:51pm
bereal

Jeeze
How can these drongs go on and effing on and on and on about global warming ?
Shit. Even Luc Hansen had enough brains to give it away.

Who the fuck do these drongs think they will convince.? Either side of them ?

Do they think that the other side will see the relevance of their scintillating argument and suddenly declare,
“yeah, you are right, I was wrong.”

Just give it away girls.

You’ll feel much better.
Just like the moron who felt much better as soon as he stopped knocking his head into a brick wall.

Then again. maybe i missed the point.
Maybe the whole fun is just about knocking your head into a brick wall.
To see who can keep up knocking longer, and who gives up first.
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March 20, 2012 7:23pm
Other_Andy

Here is a graph that shows the amount of ‘Global Warming’ since 1850

Annual Mean Surface Temperature Anomaly – Global
(In whole degrees)

+1C

0_______________________________________________________________

-1C

1850………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….2012

Data from the Australian Government Bureau of Meteorology
http://www.bom.gov.au/tmp/cc/global_t.global.0112.10176.png
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March 20, 2012 7:26pm
Pete George

bereal – maybe because those research grants haven’t run out yet. The floodbanks don’t seem to stem the flow.

Australia weather extremes likely to worsen

Australia faces a quickening pace of climate change, according to a snapshot of the nation’s weather, forcing farmers to alter cropping strategies and miners to cope with more intense floods.

The government report released on Wednesday confirms the changing trends in rainfall and warmer temperatures across Australia.

The report, compiled by the Bureau of Meteorology and the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), looks at long-term climate trends in Australia

Australia is getting hotter, the pace of sea level rise quickening, the oceans warming and rainfall patterns shifting towards more rain in the summer, the report said.

Each decade has been warmer than the previous decade since the 1950s, it said, with rising greenhouse gas emissions from burning fossil fuels, deforestation and agriculture blamed for the changes.

I don’t think the debate is quite over yet.
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March 20, 2012 7:32pm
bereal

On a different note.
i hope there is just one poofter out there who can make the case as to why when he, being Aids
infected thinks that is OK to sodomise his mate and not tell him beforehand that he, the sodomite, is
a sick puppy who has it all under control and that there is no problem.
(if so, how did that sod get Aids in the first place?)

mikenmild will be back soon to explain.

And on climate change.
Pete George, you are right.
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March 20, 2012 7:36pm
Scott Chris

Check the reference

Yes Andy I read that yesterday when you posted it.

Firstly, you’ve misrepresented Jones’ answers. For instance, you state the rate of increase for the 3 cherry picked periods is identical. It isn’t, it’s merely similar and furthermore there is no reason to think those periods have anything in common other than their similar warming rates.

Secondly, the atmosphere only contains around two percent of the forced warming caused by increased carbon dioxide and is masked by other patterns such as La Nina and variable solar irradience, so plateaus and dips are meaningless in the face of the longer term trend which will inevitably emerge over the next decade or two as the vast heat exchange system balances itself out.

Thirdly, the use of the term “global warming” is misused in the interview. What is actually being referred to is the “average combined global atmospheric temperature record” which is a different thing entirely.

The graphic I posted clearly shows that you are barking up the wrong tree.
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March 20, 2012 7:45pm
bereal

Aw shit.
Little Scott Chris just proves the point.
The only thing he missed out of his erudite post @ 7.45 was,,, nah nah, na nah naa.

Question is.. What do these drongs get out of this shit ?
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March 20, 2012 7:50pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Expecting any answers to your questions bereal? Are you anticipating an answer to your delicately posed and subtle questions any time soon? Did you consider that you’re being too discreet and you’re not getting question across properly?
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March 20, 2012 7:52pm
nasska

What Do They Think of Us?

Dog: “Great, there goes the urge to drink out of the toilet.”
Cat: “Y’know, if I didn’t have a tail, I’d try that.”
Dog: “I’ve heard about that position — it’s called ‘human style.'”
Sheep: “It’s just a phase. He’ll be back.”
Dog: “How strange — why would you want someone else to lick it for you?”
Rabbits: “Amateurs!”
Dog: “Geez, they have to look at each other’s *faces* while they’re doing that??”
Dog: “Let’s hop on and make it a conga line!”
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March 20, 2012 8:00pm
bereal

And to my dear friend Nostalgia-NZ
Your point, as usual is… duh ?
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March 20, 2012 8:00pm
Griff

“How can these drongs go on and effing on and on and on about global warming ?”

because mr Bereal if I did not try at least to influence some on the right that global warming is real and its ok to support it the anti science brigade would manipulate the right into total denial. If that happens and the impact really starts being noticed the greens and their socialists agenda will dominate the future

That and its actually fun making the dienialist look like the bunch of nutters that they are
I know that I will not win against AA and RN they are the converted Luddites that will lie black and blue to support their case however I have had some impact on the amount of bullshit posted here by the alt science lobby I also believe that the problem will be solved through science. The attacks on science that these idiots are promulgating is the first step in an agenda that will not encourage a successful future for the human race.
you can always RIP me if I am to boring. 🙂
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March 20, 2012 8:02pm
publicwatchdog

Here we go Kiwibloggers!

Some more HARD questions in order to establish why the Finance Markets Authority (FMA) didn’t carry out their own independent investigation into why former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, John Banks and Don Brash should not be charged for signing Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009, which contained untrue statements?

“Senior Adviser Public Assistance
Finance Markets Authority

1) What were the names of the legal counsel upon whose advice the (former) Securities Commission relied in their decision not to prosecute former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd John Banks and Don Brash re: Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009?

2) Did any /all of these legal counsel transfer across from the former Securities Commission to the Finance Markets Authority?

3) Were there ‘Executive staff’ from the former Securities Commission which transferred to the Finance Markets Authority?
Please provide the names and positions of all/any such ‘Executive staff’.

4) Were there Board members of the former Securities Commission which transferred to the Finance Markets Authority?
Please provide the names and positions of all/any Board members.

5) Can you provide the information which explains why the FMA which replaced the Securities Commission relied on the advice they received and apparently did not independently review the decision that the former Securities Commission made on this issue?

‘The FMA said the Securities Commission “obtained the advice of respected counsel on this issue. That advice was then reviewed and confirmed by a Queen’s Counsel. The commission considered that advice and the results of its investigation carefully. ‘

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6555638/Petition-stalks-Banks-Brash

……………………………… ”

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
waterpressure@gmail.com
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March 20, 2012 8:04pm
Nostalgia-NZ

bereal
at 8pm sharp

Well, who is going to answer those questions? The bloke that apparently necked himself on the eve of his trial last week for infecting others gave a pretty emphatic answer that he’d rather be dead than trying to answer it.

Other people, as you might have noticed, are obsessed as to whether it’s getting hot or cold, and I admit I’ve taken my jacket on and off tonight a couple of times and I can’t answer that question either.
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March 20, 2012 8:13pm
bereal

My poor dear Nostalgia-NZ

Would you like to nominate someone who could translate your effort @ 8.13
i for one woild be interested in what you were trying to say.

And Griff.
How do you figure that those who don’t agree with your idea of global warming are on the ‘right’ ?

So you have got it figured out so simply.
Agree with man made global warming, you are on the left.
Disagree with AGW, must be on the right ?

Wake up to yourself mate.
Now you can get an inkling into what i call drongs.
Not that i would call you a drong Griff.
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March 20, 2012 8:27pm
Nostalgia-NZ

bereal
8.27

I know you’ve been busy and that you’ve got no time on your hands except to ask questions
for which there are obvious answers.
But the guy charged with infecting people with HIV, knowing that he had HIV, necked himself
rather than explain to the Court the answer to the questions of why he, or anybody, would infect
others in such a way. So maybe that’s an answer bereal or maybe it isn’t.
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March 20, 2012 8:37pm
Sofia

Penny, it would help if you better introduced your material to clearly say what it is about.
I take it tonight’s splurge is some sort of OIA communication to the Finance Markets Authority.

Do you not think MP Winston Peters, who [next to yourself and your particular motives] stands probably to gain the greatest advantage from MP John Banks being tipped out of his present position, will have not applied his own legal expertise and anyone he may reasonably involve, to already investigate if Banks and Brash can be prosecuted?

Having paid this much attention to your comment, I hope this has really made your evening 🙂
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March 20, 2012 8:38pm
Griff

Its not my idea. its the state of science re the future of the planet.
The dienilists are mostly driven by right wing procarbon propaganda generated by Republican politics and the oil coal lobby in the USA Think heartland and cato institutes.
In Europe there is little debate around the science of climate change only in american right wing politics is this dienilist view given any serious debate
If you trace the source of this disinformation campaign its easy to see the politics behind it If you are interested go to “source watch” and lookup Heartland or WUWT and it will tell you exactly were it comes from.
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March 20, 2012 8:42pm

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