General Debate 11 March 2012

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DRHILL

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/australian-bid-falters-for-25b-telescope-20120309-1upsp.html

Heard nothing fron the NZ government about what they are doing to support this bid. Would be ashame if e lost it with Australia.
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March 11, 2012 8:11am
All_on_Red

DRHILL
If you want it use your own money . 2.5 billion! Sheesh.
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March 11, 2012 8:23am
DRHILL

If I remembr correctly the funding was coming from overseas, the group were deciding where to build the dish arrays
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March 11, 2012 8:27am
iMP

UNUSUAL elements of the DBAIN INTERVIEW:

1. The self-absorbed self-aggrandizement (same as the computer message) about not being able to help Laniette (dispense his wisdom) and this ‘save’ her. Not the bloodied bashed bodies of all his family, their lost lives, the impact on his other relatives. No, David is MOST concerned about himself being unable to dispense his heroic influence. (This is the manipulative personality so many witnesses spoke of). It also shows a level of sociopathic behaviour.

2. The inability to answer simple but direct questions from a mild-mannered journalist (who deserves a medal).

3. The aggressive Mothering of Joe Karam (David was smothered by his mother) who feels the need to step in and bully anyone
or anything (including the truth) getting in nthe way of his pride/ego and millions.

The whole speech and press conference was a debacle. A hideous grotesque built upon the murdered bodies of 5 people.
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March 11, 2012 8:43am
Michael

Penny Bright is proving herself to be the corrupt politician as well as an inept politician, using the political process to try and have charges laid against an MP and a former MP in an attempt to smear their names. This is a matter for the Securities Commission/Financial Markets Authority. She’s never raised even an “ahem” about the Green Futures Scheme and it’s deliberate mechanism to double dip from Parliament.

Shame on Phil Twyford for playing along in an attempt for political gain.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6555638/Petition-stalks-Banks-Brash
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March 11, 2012 8:52am
Keeping Stock

Does anyone else feel uneasy or cynical about this charm offensive from Team Bain. I simply hope that Justice Ian Binnie is as much as a cynic as I am…

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/03/bains-charm-offensive.html
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March 11, 2012 8:53am
Scott Chris

If I remember correctly the funding was coming from overseas

Yup, this is a joint venture funded by 20 countries which would provide significant beneficial economic spin-offs for the hosting countries. That appears to be the problem for the Australasian bid:

Australia had been concerned European nations saw the project, likened in ambition to the moon landings or the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland, as a type of development aid to boost poorer African nations.

Also, why would the private sector be interested in funding science that has no pay-off? Clearly a strong case can be made for central funding of these kinds of projects.
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March 11, 2012 8:54am
nickb

2. The inability to answer simple but direct questions from a mild-mannered journalist (who deserves a medal).

I don’t agree with this. I have no doubt in David Bain’s guild and in my opinion he should still be behind bars. But the fact of the matter is he has been proven not guilty by a jury of his peers and for the media (namely TV1 last night) to continue asking questions such as “Did you kill your family” is the height of journalistic puerility
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March 11, 2012 9:06am
Nostalgia-NZ

imp
8.43

Were you there?
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March 11, 2012 9:16am
Leaping Jimmy

See this story about a mother deliberately falsifying DNA records in order deliberately to get the father’s name removed from the birth certificate and of course, end visitation rights:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10791255

Embittered women from relationship break-ups have been around since the beginning of time (Hell hath no fury etc.)

Lots of women I’ve met however don’t have a good understanding of men, but they think they do. Lots of them I’ve met just think men are terribly simple uncomplicated creatures ruled by the dangly thing between our legs and that’s about all there is to us, really. I’ve often wondered whether this mistaken view of men on the part of women, is why many women also fail to understand the critical role a father plays in bringing up children, in particular male children. Lots of women in relationship breakups seem to mistakenly think the only important person in their child’s life is their mother and therefore it doesn’t matter if the kid doesn’t see their dad ever again. A father is important for both sexes but in particular for male children, and the consequences of not having the dad around for a male child in terms of angry, ill-disciplined adolescents are living examples of this need.

Sure there are bad fathers, I’m not talking about those so don’t bother raising them in response to this, but for good fathers who want to have a relationship with their children, what does one do, about mothers such as this one? This is extreme but there are many many like her. Let’s say 30% of divorced mothers as a random figure. For this is not just getting back the father’s name on the birth certificate, but what do we think the mother’s been saying to her son about her father? I’m sure we can guess. And what right does that bitch have to poison that sacred relationship? But I’ll bet she has been, for years. And how do we stop this?

I’d personally like to see compulsory education given to both parents on the role the other parent plays in their child’s lives and I’d also like to see severe penalties in law for one parent undermining the other in their child’s eyes, as well. (I realise the inherent difficulties – this is ideal world – but how else could you stop this poison?) Family law in this country as in most other western nations, has been deliberately designed to do the opposite: i.e. encourage it, esp re: the father being shoved out of a child’s life, which is yet another example of poisonous feminist engineering. However if anything is important from a social point of view, this is. It would be very interesting, if this perspective were to look like it would come into law, to see what the reaction of the academics and the lefties would be. But it won’t. It should, but it won’t.
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March 11, 2012 9:20am
plebe

Dont you stupid buggurs ever give up??? David B is a free man and can travel the world , he dosnt have ANY convictions, get used to it idiots.

iMP (491) Says:

March 11th, 2012 at 8:43 am
UNUSUAL elements of the DBAIN INTERVIEW:

1. The self-absorbed self-aggrandizement (same as the computer message) about not being able to help Laniette (dispense his wisdom) and this ‘save’ her. Not the bloodied bashed bodies of all his family, their lost lives, the impact on his other relatives. No, David is MOST concerned about himself being unable to dispense his heroic influence. (This is the manipulative personality so many witnesses spoke of). It also shows a level of sociopathic behaviour.

2. The inability to answer simple but direct questions from a mild-mannered journalist (who deserves a medal).

3. The aggressive Mothering of Joe Karam (David was smothered by his mother) who feels the need to step in and bully anyone
or anything (including the truth) getting in nthe way of his pride/ego and millions.

The whole speech and press conference was a debacle. A hideous grotesque built upon the murdered bodies of 5 people.
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March 11, 2012 9:22am
Nostalgia-NZ

nickb
9.06

Puerility is right, particularly that they took no part in the rest of the conference, nor to this point reported on it and not withstanding one question had it’s meaning deliberated distorted by omission and the 2nd question wouldn’t have occurred to even a dimwit to ask had they comprehended anything about the case, or the presentation that had just finished. Those 2 ‘reporters’ ended up in the casino, refused drinks in one bar it has been revealed to me, so disgusted the staff were with the absurdity of the questions and the failure to have any comprehension of the conference and its attendees.
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March 11, 2012 9:25am
Nostalgia-NZ

leapingjimmy
9.10

Truly bizarre, and the women claims to have a ‘good story’ to tell, no doubt some other way of how to conspire to defeat the course of Justice.
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March 11, 2012 9:29am
plebe

Imp was not only was there during the slaughter, he took pictures , a video and is soon to launch a sound track, personally
i thought Donald Duck pulled the trigger.

Nostalgia-NZ (538) Says:

March 11th, 2012 at 9:16 am
imp
8.43

Were you there?
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March 11, 2012 9:32am
Kent Parker

Plebe:

:
Dont you stupid buggurs ever give up??? David B is a free man and can travel the world , he dosnt have ANY convictions, get used to it idiots.

Yeah, that would be fine, if he did travel the world and get on with his life. Instead he is wanting a whole lot of money as compensation for his time in prison. Go the reporter who asked the difficult questions. If Bain is not going to front up in New Zealand at a press conference, then a dedicated investigative reporter has to do it at the only opportunity which has to date presented itself. That was Karam’s choice. If he wanted to avoid the fracas that occurred then he shouldn’t have kept such a tight wrap on his “boy” and allowed Bryan Bruce and a number of other reporters the opportunity to interview him before he left NZ. I totally agree with the questions that were asked.
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March 11, 2012 9:33am
Put it away

Ahh plebe is back, the genius who insisted that those scumbags who left their kids in the van at the casino must be National voters because everyone who goes to the casino is rich. Why am I not surprised that someone of your logical abilities is a David Bain supporter…
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March 11, 2012 9:33am
kowtow

don’t you stupid buggers ever give up?

Then don’t go giving speeches about how shit NZ justice is ( why slag the system that exonerated you).
Don’t give a press conference if you’re not going to answer questions.
And yes Karam comes across as an angry enforcer, there to share the glory and limelight, and to ensure as in the legal process that only certain issues are examined.
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March 11, 2012 9:48am
krazykiwi

Extracted this from a link Manolo posted of yesterday’s GD. That story set out evidence that the Obama birth certificate furore was a deliberately managed stage show intended to deflect attention from the real smoking gun.

The US Constitution does not define ‘Natural Born Citizen, so this was left to case law. The relevant case is Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167 [1874], and the author outlines how in 2008 an illegal, deliberate effort was made to expunge all references to this case.

Read ‘Natural Born’ Supreme Court Citations Disappear

On October 20, 2011, New Jersey attorney Leo Donofrio accused online legal research behemoth Justia.com of surgically redacting important information from their publication of 25 U.S. Supreme Court opinions which cite Minor v. Happersett, an 1874 decision which arguably contains language that appears to disqualify anyone from presidential eligibility who wasn’t born in the country to parents who were citizens. According to the decision in Happersett:

At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. (Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167 [1874])

Justia is a Google Mini-powered website which has singled itself out as one of the most comprehensive and easy-to-search legal sites on the internet. Other legal resources such as Lexis can cost as much as $5,000 a month for a subscription, and it’s impossible to hyperlink to cases which include copyrighted headnotes and analysis. This is why powerful law firms such as Perkins Coie (where former Obama White House Counsel Bob Bauer practices law) have cited Justia’s pages.

The Wayback Machine, run by InternetArchive.Org, is the means by which the changes made at Justia were documented over time.

Among the first responses from Justia regarding this controversy was to block its Supreme Court Server from being viewed by the Wayback Machine.

Read the article. 25 references to this important case surgically redacted. When challenged Justia blocks Wayback Machine. There is some seriously dodgy stuff going on here.

Of course the left will claim there’s nothing to see, move on.
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March 11, 2012 9:51am
iMP

Collaboration on a feel-good biop. on TVNZ, an international speech with other celeb. aquittees, a press conference, and a new book ALL to COINCIDE with the Canadian Judge assessing this case for compensation. It looks like a whole lot of PR spin and manipulation (there’s that word again, keeps popping up) and zero for humility, justice and being circumspect while objectivity proceeds.
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March 11, 2012 9:52am
plebe

Is your tail still sore PIA, maybe i should have proded you with a sharp stick to? :O))
Put it away (2,466) Says:

March 11th, 2012 at 9:33 am
Ahh plebe is back, the genius who insisted that those scumbags who left their kids in the van at the casino must be National voters because everyone who goes to the casino is rich. Why am I not surprised that someone of your logical abilities is a David Bain supporter…
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March 11, 2012 10:09am
Nostalgia-NZ

Kent Parker
9.33

Yes, a dedicated ‘investigative reporter’ who is yet to even report on the blood in the barrel, on Robin’s palms etc etc. And who, after David delivered a eulogy to his entire family, asked an inappropriate question that was out of taken out of context as he very well knew. But as you say ‘go’ the hate-siters champion – every post is a losing post for him so far, and for his motley crew.
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March 11, 2012 10:25am
mikenmild

kk
So you’re a birther, eh? Any other conspiracy theories that you are keen on?
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March 11, 2012 10:25am
Lazybum

Stuff are typical lefty media.

Since when is 2 thousand thousands? Reminds me what Radio NZ said hundreds turned out for the Boscowan march in 2007, when it was 5000 odd. That is thousands.

Piss poor turn out for the rich prick wharfies anyway.

Basically 6-7 people per sacked wharfie, not a great turnout really as their immediate family would be around 6-7 anyway.

Alternative headline: ‘Wharfies and their families go for a stroll down Auckland.’
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March 11, 2012 10:26am
Redbaiter

The cowardice and political corruption of the NZ Herald starkly demonstrated in two links-

First link

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bush20military20service/search/results.cfm?kw1=bush%20military%20service&kw2=&st=gsa

Second link

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/arpaio20obama20birth20certificate/search/results.cfm?kw1=Arpaio%20obama%20birth%20certificate&kw2=&st=gsa
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March 11, 2012 10:26am
Nostalgia-NZ

Will be very interesting to see what the face of Auckland is in 2012 in terms of attitude toward the waterfront strike, the city has changed for sure since 51, in particular with the ethnic mix. I suspect those ethnic contributions might not have been fully appraised when Gibson took his golden hammer out and old Lenny looked away from the people who voted for him.
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March 11, 2012 10:38am
Pete George

We haven’t had a good chuckle at birthers for a while. I suppose that second link is supposed to prove that The Herald doesn’t care about the certificate conspiracy.

Last December, the Justice Department accused Arpaio of civil rights abuses, sparking debate over whether his latest “birther” crusade is politically motivated.

Arpaid said he began his investigation before that – in August 2011 – after tea party members from Surprise, Ariz., signed a petition challenging the certificate.

Joe Arpaio has a history of launching investigations of his enemies, however, be they journalists, judges, Maricopa County Board of Supervisors, you name it.

For years, notes the Tucson Citizen (a vocal Obama critic, no less), if you criticized Joe Arpaio, you’d soon be staring down often baseless criminal investigations.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2012/03/sheriff-joe-arpaio-obama-birth-certificate-a-forgery

The fact is that the odd claims of a sheriff from Arizona aren’t exactly topical Auckland or New Zealand news.
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March 11, 2012 10:43am
Put it away

yes of course plebe, I’m somehow “sore” because I called you out for saying quite possibly the most idiotic thing ever said on kiwiblog. What on earth is going on in your head? Total moron.
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March 11, 2012 10:43am
Pete George

old Lenny looked away from the people who voted for him.

“Old Lenny” waas damning of MUNZ on Q+A this morning, saying they could have accepted the first offer.

It’s looking more obvious the old unionists overstepped and then didn’t have the nous to repair the damage. Too bad for the members they were supposed to be representing.
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March 11, 2012 10:46am
Keeping Stock

Members of MUNZ who were denied the opportunity to vote against the strikes in secret by a control-freak union should be considering legal action against MUNZ. The provocative stance the union took has cost jobs; nothing surer.
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March 11, 2012 10:52am
Scott Chris

all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. (Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167 [1874])

LoL, KK’s a birther. Apart from the silliness and political pettiness of the whole birther thing, Minor v. Happersett was a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that the Constitution did not grant women the right to vote which was subsequently overruled by the 19th amendment.

Ironic but unsurprising that the kooky extreme Conservatives would want to dredge up such a flawed and anachronistic ruling to support their bigoted agenda.
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March 11, 2012 10:52am
Other_Andy

@PG

I realise mikenmild has got a clue but you must know that the ‘birther’ issue is not the same as the ‘natural born citizen’ issue?
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March 11, 2012 10:53am
kowtow

Item here by the excellent Ezra Levant on The Great Media Cover up concerning Obama’s family.Well worth a read.
Have a chuckle,it’s been a while.

http://ezralevant.com/2011/09/the-great-obama-coverup.html
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March 11, 2012 10:57am
mikenmild

Not much of a cover up if we can all look it up on the net, is it?
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March 11, 2012 11:02am
Other_Andy

“Ironic but unsurprising that the kooky extreme Conservatives would want to dredge up such a flawed and anachronistic ruling to support their bigoted agenda.”

It is, of course, quite different when the ‘other side’ does it.
Like SC, they don’t have a bigoted agenda.
They are ‘fighting the good cause’ and the same standards don’t apply to them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/ns/nightly_news/t/mccains-citizenship-called-question/
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March 11, 2012 11:02am
krazykiwi

Scott Chris – Is the ad hominem ‘kooky extreme Conservatives’ direct mainly at me, or more generally at anyone who doesn’t share your views?

Any idea why Justia would surgically redact all those references, and then try to hid the fact they did it?

Are you saying that Minor v. Happersett made no attempt to de ‘natural born citizen’? The case – voting rights – is irrelevant, as are subsequent rulings on that subject area. Why are you obfusicating?

And since when did pursuit of the truth become a ‘bigoted agenda’?
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March 11, 2012 11:06am
Nostalgia-NZ

Keeping Stock
10.52

How is the spreading unrest and strikes going to be contained by Mr Gibson? What is the value to the rate-payers to have a Port that was making money now running at a big loss? Who is Len Brown?
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March 11, 2012 11:06am
Redbaiter

“The fact is that the odd claims of a sheriff from Arizona aren’t exactly topical Auckland or New Zealand news.”

Funny then that false claims that George Bush had dodged military service and forged documents purporting to show this were given full and enthusiastic coverage. One would have thought an obviously fake President uncovered by much stronger evidence would have garnered at least a line of reporting.

(Peter George, still the same old vacuous time wasting moron.)
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March 11, 2012 11:08am
Paulus

This mornings SST is a sad example of our so called “third estate”.
Its Editors are obviously attempting to pervert the course of the will of the Electorate.
The so called media did not get the election result they wanted, although I do not know what they wanted, neither do they, so have become feral against the tall poppy called Key. This is of course a very sad New Zealand trait.
They would never have contemplated this action when Helen Clark was in power – she (or Heather Simpson) would have stamped on them
It would appear that they will stop at nothing to bring this poppy down, maintaining that they represent the people.
I assume that this turning point became prevalent when one of their precious own called “Ambrose” came into light – how dare he not be believed, and his colleagues, the so called media, who are beyond normal law..
It is interesting to see how the media does not tell all the truth but fudges comments into ten second soundbights, leaving out pertinent information. It does not suit them to tell the whole truth.
Taking the SST alone, with its declining sales, I am not surprised that they have assumed the role of a very left wing opposition trying to make us believe that they are the natural role of the opposition. Their recent Editorials show the level that wish to go to – like News of the World without the hacking (I hope).
I expect that this role of denigration of our present MMP system government will continue to the next election, getting more vitriolic as they do not get their way.
When they get their own way in electing a very left wing oriented coalition with Winston Peters holding the balance of power, what will they do then ?
ps. I have only two weeks left of my current SST subs – then goodbye for good !
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March 11, 2012 11:08am
krazykiwi

edit: … made no attempt to define ‘natural born’?
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March 11, 2012 11:09am
hiphip

did you kill your family?
um, ur, that is to say … mmmmm. ye….
please stop asking david such difficult questions!!!!
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March 11, 2012 11:10am
Redbaiter

Pravda reports factually on what the western press is too cowardly to cover-

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/07-03-2012/120708-arizona_sheriff_obama-0/
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March 11, 2012 11:11am
krazykiwi

Apart from the silliness and political pettiness of the …

What’s petty about checking that our policital leaders are elected by lawful means?
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March 11, 2012 11:15am
Other_Andy

“And since when did pursuit of the truth become a ‘bigoted agenda’?”

Since they are losing the factual debate.
Raaaacist!
Bigot!
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March 11, 2012 11:18am
Pete George

Other_Andy – it all just seems an extension of the same old. Like Labour, lost an election and keep trying to find a way to win it.

(Redbaiter still the same old desperate birther. How’s the revolution? The lefties seem to be ahead with their class war promotion.)
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March 11, 2012 11:22am
bhudson

Nostalgia-NZ,

How is the spreading unrest and strikes going to be contained by Mr Gibson?

What “spreading unrest”? A couple of thousand union workers and unionists do not a “spreading unrest” make.

Who is Len Brown?

According to Bob Marley “Mr Brown is a clown, who rides ’round town in a coffin.”
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March 11, 2012 11:22am
bhudson

Who would ever have thought Red would one day say “Pravda reports factually”?
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March 11, 2012 11:26am
Nostalgia-NZ

bhudson
11.22

In the first instance by avoiding a strike (he always knew contentious issues could have been parked – for later agreement or negotiation,) taking a longer view at the 12% objective, and get working toward it having enlisted the support of the union toward it. Maybe not writing to the families might have also helped – but now we see entrenchment and uncertainty which is against the interest of rate-payers, the stake holders. Even the idea that Brown somehow had a mandate from rate-payers for his directions on this is likely to be called into question.

As for the last point I hope Mr Marley does not turn out to prophetic with his musical description of our super Mayor.
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March 11, 2012 11:35am
Chris2

Regarding the news that the radio telescope project is being awarded to Africa. Politically, what made the Anzac option a better choice was that the project would have been spread across two stable democratic countries.

The flaw with awarding it to Africa is that the radio telescopes will be spread across eight African nations, where crime and corruption are a way of live, even for the Governments and politicians. It will only require a military coup or civil unrest in anyone of these countries and the whole project will be compromised. It will take only one Government to impose their own monetary “requirements” to keep the programme running, and the costs will sky rocket.

The SKA Committee may well day rue their decision to award the project to Africa.
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March 11, 2012 11:40am
Nostalgia-NZ

hiphip
11.10

It wouldn’t occur to you that the man has reported for almost 2 decades that he didn’t kill his family, and had just given a well accepted presentation of what he called ‘my story’ where he made it abundantly clear why he was acquitted, that he wasn’t guilty. As for that other question, that’s the same ‘fact’ you published if I’m not mistaken.
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March 11, 2012 11:40am
joana

Has anyone seen Obama’s cheesey new video?
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March 11, 2012 11:58am
bhudson

Chris2,

The decision and investment across the African countries could be seen as a means to help to counter the influence of China in Africa
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March 11, 2012 11:58am
Scott Chris

Is the ad hominem ‘kooky extreme Conservatives’ direct mainly at me, or more generally at anyone who doesn’t share your views?

It’s aimed at anyone who attempts to propagate extremist partisan misinformation, be they Rush Limbaugh, Joe Karam, Ahmadinejad or Anthony Watts.
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March 11, 2012 12:03pm
Pete George

Danyl says in Back to Basics:

Maybe I’m being wildly optimistic here, but it could be pretty smart for Shearer to go back to the very principles of left-wing political philosophy, and simply make the argument that we’re a society of people with obligations towards each other – in contrast to the right-wing view-point in which we are a competitive market-place of inter-party transactions.

Shouldn’t “we’re a society of people with obligations towards each other” work both ways?

Most people who work and pay tax accept an obligation to help others less fortunate.
Most people on benefits accept an obligation to support themselves as much and as soon as possible.

Don’t they?
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March 11, 2012 12:06pm
Monique Watson

How guilty is he if he only shot the last member of the Bain family? Has that been discussed at length in any of the previous threads? I am not sure how passionate I am about scrolling through. It would be a lot easier to compartmentalize if you were asked to kill a murderer.
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March 11, 2012 12:09pm
bhudson

Pete,

They tried to go back to basics last year – they ended up with a hodgepodge collection of insane (if not inane) policies which were resoundly rejected by the voters. As their campaign videos showed, they were living in the past and long may they do so.

The voting public has moved on.
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March 11, 2012 12:16pm
hiphip

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10569482
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March 11, 2012 12:17pm
tom hunter

It’s aimed at anyone who attempts to propagate extremist partisan misinformation, be they Rush Limbaugh, Joe Karam, Ahmadinejad or Anthony Watts.

But not Barack Obama and Bill Maher because they’re so – you know – moderate and non-partisan.
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March 11, 2012 12:22pm
Sonny Blount

Nostalgia-NZ (549) Says:
March 11th, 2012 at 11:35 am
bhudson
11.22

In the first instance by avoiding a strike (he always knew contentious issues could have been parked – for later agreement or negotiation,) taking a longer view at the 12% objective, and get working toward it having enlisted the support of the union toward it. Maybe not writing to the families might have also helped – but now we see entrenchment and uncertainty which is against the interest of rate-payers, the stake holders. Even the idea that Brown somehow had a mandate from rate-payers for his directions on this is likely to be called into question.

So what you are saying is that Len Brown should have taken ratepayer money from 1 million Aucklanders and given it to 300 of the better off amongst them?
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March 11, 2012 12:22pm
Yvette

Keeping Stock – Does anyone else feel uneasy or cynical about this charm offensive from Team Bain.

“Due to my attention being focused on my own life and the fantastic things I was heavily involved in I was unaware of the malevolent undercurrents that were happening in my own family.
…”I didn’t pay much heed to what was happening around me. Life had only just started. To most of my friends I was just a normal, slightly over-active young guy.”

– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6555769/Tearful-Bain-tells-of-his-pain

Compare that to –

… a booklet published by Joe Karam in 2001 called Innocent: Seven Critical Flaws in the Wrongful Conviction of David Bain. quotes David – “I find this state of limbo depressing and often hard to live with [referring to being in prison], but it is eminently easier than being constantly crushed by shattered dreams, destroyed plans, broken promises and betrayals, by all I once held dear.” ?

– http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/03/bain_says_parents_made_him_strong.html#comment-943017
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March 11, 2012 12:35pm
Scott Chris

But not Barack Obama

Obama is as full of shit as most Americans when it comes to commenting on Iran for instance, but I was heartened to hear him reiterate recently that a diplomatic solution is the most desirable one. Put him up in my estimation.

The problem is, of course, that the systematic demonization of Iran has meant that a moderate stance on Iran is politically untenable. That is why I hate partisan rhetoric so much, because it distorts popular perception of reality and by extension corrupts political reality.
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March 11, 2012 12:59pm
SGA

KK,

My children are US citizens born outside the USA, so I’ve always been curious about the definition of “natural born” (not that I expect them to run for president at any time – just curious). My reading suggests that this issue has always been a very grey area – as recently as the 1960’s, Mitt Romney’s father ran for the Republican presidential candidancy even though he’d been born in Mexico.

My understanding is that Minor v. Happersett doesn’t really define the limits of “natural born” – instead it says that someone born in the US with two US citizens as parents MUST pass that test (as was the situation in that particular case).

I’m happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood something.
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March 11, 2012 1:06pm
joana

A sad movie on Maori TV tonight..”The Wind that Shakes the Barley.” Fictionalized Irish history.
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March 11, 2012 1:14pm
Pete George

There is no mandate for these asset sales proposals.
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March 11, 2012 1:56pm
Viking2

Q+A this morning. If it keeps up like this I will watch some more.

Waht came through.
Three leaders.

The POAL Chairman. Worth every cent he is paid. Been more than fair and in the end the union hung themselves. Good game and they can blame no one but themselves. They lost, bigtime and he quietly made the point that ex union memebers can apply for the work. Real leadership.

Len Brown.
Many won’t agree but having been around a number of the original Labour Party People and Mps’ a long time ago I always found them to be tough on the people who didn’t work or were too lazy to help themselves. Now that’s not the modern impression of the Labour Party. Its is none the less true and its good to see Labour Leaders going back to their roots.
Len has showed that over the POAL dispute. Whilst bound by legislation about his parameters in the running of POAL he made it quite clear that he was principled enough to follow his council and the rules and to also lend a hand to the union who spurned his assistance and essentially dumped upon him. Paslow lost his trust and confidence and so lost.

David Shearer showed the man he will be. Next election if the contest is between Key and Shearer with Key being the less likely to be there then it will be interesting. There is much more than smile and wave whilst emptying your pockets that is the Key charisma. Shearers biggest challange will be the people that heas to work through. He needs to rid the place of the “dogs of Labour”, the geriatrics that have bad attitudes and those that are plain disgruntled, been there too long etc.
Hard job but if he makes progress then National won’t be the next Govt. without resorting to Cullen and Clark type bribes.
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March 11, 2012 2:21pm
Pete George

Shearer’s biggest task is not winning over the electorate, it is winning over his party. There’s plenty of signs he is a long way from doing that.
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March 11, 2012 2:23pm
wat dabney

“I was heartened to hear him reiterate recently that a diplomatic solution is the most desirable one. Put him up in my estimation.”

Sounds like he missed a trick by not mentioning that he also thinks puppies are cute and that people shouldn’t be mean to each other. He’d have had you turning somersaults.
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March 11, 2012 3:03pm
Manolo

Nobody could be surprised by the rapacity of local government bureaucrats: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8433245/council-rates-rises-exceed-inflation
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March 11, 2012 3:04pm
krazykiwi

Scott Chris – You answered one of the questions I directed at you at 11:06. It was enlightening, and I’m glad tom followed it up.

I’m interested in your thoughts on #2 and #3.

Why the careful deletion of these citations, and why the blocking of future audits? You must have some insights there, surely?

Any why your obfuscation on the matter of the supreme courts determination? That the issue in question was on voting rights for women is completely irrelevant, but their definition of a natural born citizen appears very relevant as it would make Obama an illegally installed president.

Are you interested in truth?
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March 11, 2012 3:56pm
publicwatchdog

AT LAST!

Finally – some traction on the application of ‘one law for all’ to those whom most loudly espoused it? WE NEED AN URGENT PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY into why John Banks and Don Brash were never prosecuted by either the former Securities Commission, the Finance Markets Authority (FMA), the Serious Fraud Office (SFO), or the NZ Police.

Arguably, the balance of power in New Zealand ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ is being held by a yet-to-be charged ‘white collar’ criminal – who couldn’t competently run a Kiwisaver Scheme?

And is now the MINISTER FOR REGULATORY REFORM?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/latest-edition/6555733/Petition-stalks-Banks-Brash

For more background information – check out http://www.pennybright4epsom.org.nz

Penny Bright
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March 11, 2012 3:56pm
Longknives

You Bain supporters (or is it Karam Cult-members?) seem pretty confident that a massive payout is imminent.
So what is the ‘inside word’ from the Bain supporters club on the figure? Fifteen years of accrued paper-run wages could add up to something in the ballpark of fifteen-thousand dollars? That’d be easily enough for Davey-Boy to buy himself a flash new rifle! (As I hear he is pretty keen on getting the old one back- for some unknown but clearly perfectly legit reason)
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March 11, 2012 4:16pm
Steve

Nutter alert at 3.56pm
Only one comment on GD from Longknives, you scared all Kiwibloggers away.
Such is the power you have to do this – literacy kung fu.

Either that or they just turn the fucking ears off when they hear shit.
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March 11, 2012 6:25pm
mikenmild

I see kk is still off on the birther kick. Anything on the 9/11 conspiracy and hoax moon landings as well?
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March 11, 2012 6:28pm
WebWrat

Pete George (12,603) Says:

What a waste of fucking space!
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March 11, 2012 6:48pm
nasska

Adam was roaming around the Garden of Eden making up names for all the animals that were there. He also noticed that there were two kinds of each species – male and female. And he also noticed that most of the animals were mating and seemed to be enjoying this very much. So, he went to his special place and called out in a loud voice, “Hey, God!”. And a loud booming voice replied, “Yes, Adam”.

Adam: “Hey, God – There’s an awful lot of animals down here.”

God: “Yes, Adam – I have created many species and I trust you have not run out of names for them.”

Adam: “No, that’s not the problem. But, I have noticed that there are two kinds of each species.”

God: “Yes, Adam. One kind is male and the other is female.”

Adam: “Hey, God – why is there a male and a female of each species ?”

God: “So they can mate and procreate. This will ensure the continuation of the species.”

Adam: “Hey, God.”

God: (sigh) “Yes, Adam.”

Adam: “Which am I?”

God: “You, Adam, are a male.”

Adam: “Hey, God, I’ve noticed that most of the animals are mating — and they seem to be really enjoying themselves. If it isn’t too much trouble, do you think…maybe,….I could…”

God: “All right, Adam. The time has come for me to provide you with a mate. Go lie down and when you have fallen asleep, I will create your mate.”

So, Adam leaves his special place, finds a patch of soft grass under a tree, lies down, and falls asleep. Some time later he awakes (possibly due to a slight pain in his side) and heads immediately to his special place.

Adam: “Hey, God.”

God: “Yes, Adam.”

Adam:”Hey, God – did you remember to do what you promised ?”

God: “Yes, Adam. While you were sleeping I created for you a mate. Her name is Eve. You will find her in the bushes near the place where you were sleeping.”

Adam rushes off to find Eve in the bushes. A few minutes later he is back at his special place, calling …

Adam: “Hey, God.”

God: “Yes, Adam.”

Adam: “What’s a headache?”
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March 11, 2012 8:01pm
Scott Chris

Why the careful deletion of these citations, and why the blocking of future audits?

I don’t know. I don’t know anything about the redacting process. Presumably Justia had their reasons – maybe it’s simply a matter of quality control. It’s their site, so I guess it’s up to them what specific criteria publications have to conform to.

why your obfuscation on the matter of the supreme courts determination?

Because attempting to set a legal precedent to define “natural born citizen” based on an arbitrary definition such as that in Minor v. Happersett strikes me as being frivolous, obtuse and politically motivated. The truth of the matter lies in the Founding Father’s intent, which was to prevent foreign aristocrats from buying influence and seizing power. That consideration is no longer relevant, therefore no special interpretation of what “natural born citizen” is required other than it’s self evident meaning.
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March 11, 2012 8:17pm
SGA

KK – I’ll repeat my earlier mesage

My children are US citizens born outside the USA, so I’ve always been curious about the definition of “natural born” (not that I expect them to run for president at any time – just curious). My reading suggests that this issue has always been a very grey area – as recently as the 1960′s, Mitt Romney’s father ran for the Republican presidential candidancy even though he’d been born in Mexico.

My understanding is that Minor v. Happersett doesn’t really define the limits of “natural born” – instead it says that someone born in the US with two US citizens as parents MUST pass that test (as was the situation in that particular case).

I’m happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood something.
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March 11, 2012 8:54pm
Pete George

SGA – there were issues about John McCain too, who was born in Panama:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution#John_McCain
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March 11, 2012 9:20pm
Other_Andy

@SGA

In my opinion, you are absolutely right. It is a grey area and has never been defined properly. It should realy be sorted what interpretation is the correct one. This would avoid a lot of problems. Cain, Obama and Romney are all in the same (simular) boat and it distracts from the real issues.
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March 11, 2012 9:43pm
SGA

Dear Pete

Yes, I’m aware of McCain’s situation (his case is more complicated by the issue of US territory on foreign soil). In a nutshell, there is no clear legal precedent over what “natural born” means. I believe (people, please correct me if I’m wrong) that the US Constitution only really differentiates between “natural born” and those that become “naturalised”. As my children are US citizens (by right at birth – jus sanguis) but not born on US soil (by right of birth – jus soli), it’s a fascinating legal grey area.

Shame about the rain in Dunedin today, wasn’t it? It could have been an entertaining day’s cricket.
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March 11, 2012 9:49pm
SGA

Sorry Other_Andy – didn’t see your message until after I’d posted to Pete. Frankly, I think that it is something that the Supreme Court wouldn’t want to address unless it really got pushed into a corner. The issues are awkward. To take a fanciful example – a US couple on a brief trip to Canada have an unexpected early baby, a Canadian couple on a brief trip to the US also have an unexpected early baby. Was the Constitution written with the intent that the former’s child wouldn’t be eligible to be President, but the latter couple’s would? Grey areas indeed.
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March 11, 2012 10:13pm

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