General Debate 2 February 2012

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Weihana

tom hunter,

My motto: “Crash The System”.

Yes! Retreat to the hills and hide behind refractor rays where Wesley Mouch cannot find us!
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February 2, 2012 6:31pm
tom hunter

Reductio ad absurdum with a point: the point being that no amount of tax increases, especially on “rich people”, will solve the US deficit and debt problems, whereas structural changes to entitlement systems and drastic cuts in discretionary spending will.

If one candidate wants to talk only about the former and not about the latter, in fact if the candidate focuses relentlessly on the former, and you allow that because it will give you great ideological satisfaction to win such a debate (Obama wins, taxes increase on rich people – yay) – and the actual problem is not solved then you’ve got a living, breathing, reductio ad absurdum that’s going to kill your society.
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February 2, 2012 6:37pm
tom hunter

Yes! Retreat to the hills ….

More like retreating to the hammock – and if I really wanted to crash the system I’d vote left-wing.

Every.
Single.
Time.
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February 2, 2012 6:39pm
Weihana

John Stewart is not the funniest of comedians but he does well with good material and the Republicans just cannot help themselves but provide him with endless things to joke about.
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February 2, 2012 6:40pm
Weihana

tom hunter,

Agreed we need to cut spending. Lets start with the military and a promise to ourselves that we will not invade another middle-eastern country.
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February 2, 2012 6:48pm
Griff

bereal

point noted
Note to self Muslims are all religious fanatics and there is no safe way for them to coexists with humanity

Happy now
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February 2, 2012 6:53pm
bereal

Don’t be stupid Griff, @ 6.53

try not to make an even bigger dick of yourself. (if that is possible)

i will help you Griff.

But you need to want to be helped.
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February 2, 2012 7:04pm
Scott Chris

Weihana says:- “John Stewart is not the funniest of comedians”

Can’t think of anyone funnier, or smarter. Colbert’s not far off the mark I suppose. I watch them both religiously. Okay, so he’s got great writers, but he’s been pumping it out four nights a week for years. Like you say though, the Republicans do supply him with a steady flow of material as do the Democrats to a certain extent.

Also, he interviews both left and right in equal measure, generally with good grace unlike poisonous conservatives such as Bill O’Reilly.
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February 2, 2012 7:09pm
reid

Muslims keep their minds closed & reach for the Semtex.

Whereas people who can’t seem to, by observing the real world, make a distinction between the average Muslim and fanatical ones, don’t have closed minds at all, do they.
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February 2, 2012 7:11pm
tom hunter

Lets start with the military …

See what I mean! Utterly unserious. Actually that’s what Obama is already doing but surprisingly it has not led to much discussion of significant cuts in other areas. Actually (more reductio ad absurdim) If we wipe out the US military completely that will leave us with only about $700 billion of a gap to close – in 2012.

They should take a look at NZ, where I well remember comments in the late 1970’s along the lines of I look forward to the day when the Army has to run a cake stall and education has all the money it needs. We’re pretty much at that stage with a military that, SAS aside, is ill-equipped to do much outside of S&R – and the government forms as big a chunk of the economy as ever, with deficits to match (I know, I know – tax cuts!).

As far as the US is concerned this is not a partisan swipe as the GOP – Paul Ryan aside – show little taste for really dealing with this either. Bipartisanship: it’s got to be good for you!
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February 2, 2012 7:11pm
adze

Luc

I’m hoping DPF can use his direct line to Bill English’s office and ask him for the research that led him to say, “There is now clear evidence that class size doesn’t matter”.

The research comes from Prof. John Hattie; it shows (linked below) that students and teachers themselves account for around 80% of achievement variance, while schools (including factors such as class size, their finances etc) account for only 5-10% of achievement in school. Not quite the same as “class size doesn’t matter”; but English is a politician after all, not an academic.

http://www.annedavies.com/pdf/19c_expertteachers_hattie.pdf

Btw did you see my question to you yesterday? I would be interested in your reply if you have time, thanks.

Luc, can I ask you a a genuine question? Out of all the atrocities that are committed in the world today – some of which have been mentioned in this thread, and which get far less publicity than the plight of Palestinians – why do you focus exclusively on those committed within the Judeochristian/Western milieu?
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February 2, 2012 7:12pm
tom hunter

… as do the Democrats to a certain extent.

Maybe they should hire the libertarian who wrote this:

Say this for them, though: Gordon Gekko at least was an honest social Darwinist. He made a lot of money and declared that “greed is good.” Michelle Obama (2007 household income: $4,238,165) made a whole lot of money and then lectured a bunch of blue- collar women in Zanesville, Ohio (median household income: $28,854) that they had a moral obligation to forgo high-paying jobs in “corporate America” (which, notice, is not exactly HQ’d in Zanesville, Ohio, poverty rate: 26.3 percent) in order to “work for the community.”

Like Gordon Gekko, she’s a carnivorous competitor at the top of the socioeconomic food chain, but she’s telling us to eat our veggies, like good little herbivores.

I can’t wait to see what Jon Stewart’s writers will do with that – someday.
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February 2, 2012 7:19pm
bereal

By the way,

whatever happened to Scot Chris argument since he made a dick of himself @ 8.17 am ?
as usual he just ignored the fact that Ed Snack @ 8.46 buried him.

No answer from Scott. What a suprise.
Scot just ignores it and goes on with some other puke.
Same old, same old Scot.

Jeez, these blokes are a joke.
You a joke scot ?

If not, follow up with your argument @ 8.17

Just a joke Scot ?

The problem you have is that unlike yourself,
some of us have a memory that lasts more than a millisecond.
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February 2, 2012 7:24pm
Griff

bereal
gee some can not be satisfied
you do not particularly rate as an authority on dick
more like an expert on fuckwitolegy
so post insults all you want
Muslims are not all Semtex carrying fanatics
many live normal fruitful lives
you have been reading to much Cristian fanatic bullshit coming from that great bastion of human rights USA
you know the country that likes invading and fucking with sovereign states like HAITI HAWAII NICARAGUA CHINA PANAMA PHILIPPINES PUERTO RICO GUAM SAMOA HONDURAS DOMINICAN REPUBLIC MEXICO RUSSIA GUATEMALA YUGOSLAVIA LAOS CAMBODIA OMAN ANGOLA EL SALVADOR LEBANON GRENADA LIBYA PHILIPPINES PANAMA SOMALIA BOSNIA SUDAN
and more
No wounder the Muslims dont like the good old usa
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February 2, 2012 7:25pm
wat dabney

Weihana,

“Personally I think people earning higher incomes should pay more in tax. Not just in an absolute sense, but as a percentage of their income. ”

Why do you think you are entitled to other people’s money?

Seriously, why do you?

You are simply a thief.

Luc,

“I’m hoping DPF can use his direct line to Bill English’s office and ask him for the research that led him to say, “There is now clear evidence that class size doesn’t matter””

Perhaps he was referring to this Harvard study, which I linked to here just recently:

“Study: Class size doesn’t matter ”

“We find that traditionally collected input measures — class size, per pupil expenditure, the fraction of teachers with no certification, and the fraction of teachers with an advanced degree — are not correlated with school effectiveness. In stark contrast, we show that an index of five policies suggested by over forty years of qualitative research — frequent teacher feedback, the use of data to guide instruction, high-dosage tutoring, increased instructional time, and high expectations — explains approximately 50 percent of the variation in school effectiveness.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/study-class-size-doesnt-matter/2012/01/28/gIQAaiZAYQ_blog.html
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February 2, 2012 7:32pm
pdm

There was a young lass from Bengal
Who wore a newspaper dress to a ball
The dress caught fire
And burned her entire
Front page, sporting section and all.
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February 2, 2012 7:32pm
bereal

Now anybody at all can see a fuken loon in operation.
i wouldn’t call Griff a loon but others may make that call.

Check out his effort @ 7.25

Jesus O’Dear. How sad is that ?
What a fuken embarrasment.
Cringeworthy.
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February 2, 2012 7:34pm
nasska

reid

…”Whereas people who can’t seem to, by observing the real world, make a distinction between the average Muslim and fanatical ones, don’t have closed minds at all, do they.”….

The problem is that the fanatics don’t identify themselves with pink beards or bells on their burqas. Since my extra sensory perception seems to have slipped a couple of notches in recent years I consider that it is safer to keep those supposedly peace loving people at arms length or better….just in case.

By the time you can smell the Semtex it’s too late.
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February 2, 2012 7:34pm
Weihana

tom hunter,

No, utterly serious. Obama has not cut military spending, it has increased every year he has been in office. He has proposed cuts however and they are well overdue.
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February 2, 2012 7:41pm
Steve

@ bereal 7.24 comment
Scott is a teen (Brain removed at 13 and get it back at 23)
He is just, almost there, ATM still a joke. Suffers from that add, hd or one of those things that eating sweets makes you go apeshit
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February 2, 2012 7:42pm
Pete George

bereal, you haven’t explained anything. All you do is make vague unsubstantiated claims and abuse anyone who doesn’t agree with you.

I asked you to explain a number of things (GD 2 days ago), especially in the New Zealand context (which is far different to Europe).

I know there are estimates of up to 5% Muslims in Sweden.
I know there is some degree of Muslim crime problem in Sweden.

That doesn’t say much at all. You haven’t fronted up with the barest of explanations. How about trying that. If you are right it should be easy to back up with facts.
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February 2, 2012 7:43pm
Griff

bereal

You have a problem with my list did I miss some
lots of Muslim nations there that are justified in taking the war to the USA
lots of states that have failed due to USA intervention some that are still occupied

In short I have seen you add very little to any debate other than personal insult
content hate
reason no intelligence
in short twisted fucknuckle

The carpenter of Bethlehem so called Jesus died about 2000 years ago crying to him is a pretty weird and useless thing to do
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February 2, 2012 7:44pm
Pete George

nasska: By the time you can smell the Semtex it’s too late.

I don’t recall seeing or hearing of any risks with Semtex in New Zealand.

Car doors are a bigger risk here, ask any cyclist. Should we stop all imports of car doors?
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February 2, 2012 7:47pm
Weihana

wat dabney,

Why do you think you are entitled to other people’s money?

Straw man.

You are simply a thief.

So call the Police.
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February 2, 2012 7:49pm
tom hunter

No, utterly serious.

You’re just being accidently obtuse, not deliberately, yes?

My point was that even the vastest cuts imaginable to US military spending will make no real dent in the US fiscal position going forward and are therefore unserious – like tax increases on “the rich.”
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February 2, 2012 7:49pm
Johnboy

Are the Police finally getting a sense of humour?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4851575/Time-for-beach-nudists-to-be-exposed-councillor

and

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/6350424/Bowling-club-becomes-sex-hot-spot

Bigwood and Allcock! 🙂
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February 2, 2012 7:50pm
Weihana

Scott Chris,

Can’t think of anyone funnier, or smarter.

Agree he’s very intelligent and quick too. Don’t get me wrong his show is hilarious but I find when the material isn’t as good he’s not as funny. But always a good show to watch. Also I haven’t seen him do stand-up so I should probably withhold judgment as to his comedic skills.
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February 2, 2012 7:53pm
wat dabney

Weihana,

Let me repeat my question: Why do you think you are entitled to other people’s money?
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February 2, 2012 7:54pm
Pauleastbay

I was sitting on the bus this morning opposite a really sexy Thai chick.

I thought to myself “Please don’t get an erection, please don’t get an erection.”

But she did.
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February 2, 2012 7:55pm
Weihana

tom hunter,

Right. The only places cuts can be made is to health care and social security. 🙂

–
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February 2, 2012 7:59pm
Weihana

wat dabney,

Sorry. Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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February 2, 2012 8:01pm
nasska

A Catholic guy goes into the confessional box after years being away from the Church.

There’s a fully equipped bar with Guinness on tap. On the shelf of one wall is a dazzling array of the finest cigars and chocolates and the other wall has pornographic pictures of a buxom blonde.

He hears a priest come in:

“Father, forgive me for it’s been a very long time since I’ve been to confession but I must first admit that the confessional box is much more inviting than it used to be”.

The priest replies, “Get out, you idiot. You’re on my side”.
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February 2, 2012 8:07pm
wat dabney

Weihana,

Er, you’ve provided a link to an explanation of the logical fallacy known as the Straw Man.

Perhaps you should read it, because then you’d understand that my question does not fall in to that category.

So I repeat: Why do you think you are entitled to other people’s money?
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February 2, 2012 8:10pm
nasska

Peter George

It’s all about risk management. Semtex, or its equivalent, is available in NZ….so are car doors of various shapes & hues.

I tend to watch overseas trends to predict what will happen in our country. When I hear of some half crazed Muslim running amok with a Toyota Corolla driver’s side door screaming “Allah Akubar” I’ll reassess the danger.
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February 2, 2012 8:14pm
tom hunter

Right. The only places cuts can be made is to health care and social security.

Not at all – but that’s where the biggest cuts will have to be because they are the biggest boys on the block.

Which is why it won’t happen. Children, especially those 26-year olds covered by the S-CHIP scheme, will lack medicine. Grandmothers will be pushed off cliffs. Wiehana will burst into tears – and all this will happen live on news at 6.

And of course this is all by design: the US left-wing (the one that is really just like the National Party according to many here) designed it to be that way: bulletproof, The Third Rail. They’ve been gleeful about that for years of course and will continue to be for sometime as it wins elections or enables cuts to things the left hates – like the military.

But in the next few years there will finally start to be conversations between Baby Boomers and their kids and grandkids, where the Boomers will be extolling some Clinton/Obama-type Democrat’s promises to save the system so that it will be there for the kids – and the latter will finally explode and tell Granny that her kids are never going to see a damn thing from Social Security and Medicare.

Only at that point – where the reality that there simply is not $50 trillion plus for those unfunded liabilities – will things begin to change.

Rather like Greece. But since America does everything bigger I don’t expect it to end as quietly.
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February 2, 2012 8:15pm
reid

By the time you can smell the Semtex it’s too late.

nasska whether or not your average Muslim fanatic looks different to your true average Muslim who will never even thnk of “reaching for the semtex” is, from a Westerner’s eyes, with respect, not the Muslim world’s problem, is it.

Perhaps if one has an open mind then one might ask oneself why one has all of a sudden become of the mindset whereby every single Muslim human being in the entire world is nothing but a raghead potential terrorist for such has no scientific basis whatsoever and one can see that by a simple observation of the daily news. As in, millions of Muslims don’t seem to do that, every single day.

But such is the way of propaganda and sometimes on this subject I find myself wondering why it is that your average Westerner doesn’t seem to realise that they have been sucked into viewing every single Muslim in exactly the same light as your average pre-WWII German viewed your average Jew. For that is what is happening on a global basis and it cannot be denied and increasingly so and given we have far more information at our disposal today than those Germans back then did, WTF has happened to the world that people like me see it happening and others just go with the flow and condemn the world to what the Germans condemned the world to, back in 1939?
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February 2, 2012 8:20pm
Griff

Q: How do you keep an idiot in suspense?
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February 2, 2012 8:28pm
reid

You’re a bastard Griff. C’mon, tell me.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese.
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February 2, 2012 8:35pm
Griff

_____
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February 2, 2012 8:38pm
reid

Right. Where’s my fucking semtex?
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February 2, 2012 8:42pm
Griff

Reid I have read your slightly left field view of the Muslim world
where do you consider the Saudis to be positioned
To me they seem apart from the confusion around them
That does not include the odd nut case I mean those in power?
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February 2, 2012 8:43pm
tom hunter

I’ll break my own narrative management rule and plunge briefly back into the whole tax increase thing, just so I can use it as an example what’s going on here.

Assuming that Weihana is entirely serious about this I need to point out that, were he a US citizen deciding who to vote for, he would be the perfect target for this narrative. The problem is – and here’s the unseriousness of it all again – if Obama manages to keep people talking about only this and stirred up with righteous anger at rich pricks, the sad truth is that there is nothing he’s really going to do about it even if he wins and coat-tails the Democrats back into control of the House (and saves the Senate).

The Democrats are never, ever going to raise the CGT to the top income tax rate level or anywhere near it because too many of them are rich pricks as well (I think that something like 8 of the ten richest Senators are Democrats) and all their supposedly social-justice inclined supporters like Bill Gates, Ted Turner and most every Hollywood starlet would never accept it either despite all their fine words. You could jack the Corporate tax rate up but since it’s already one of the highest in the world that’s just going to cause them to figure out more ways of avoiding paying it: don’t expect the corporates burden to increase beyond 5% of tax revenues.

No, the burden would fall on actual payers of income tax and even there the vaunted $250,000 level will be negotiable. Don’t believe me? You need to see Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) talking about that: he pointed out that in NY city that level of income could be reached by a married nurse and firefighter – not exactly the picture the Dems want to draw.

In short, it’s all vacuous nonsense. A talking point for Obama’s left-wing base to get excited about. So when I see people repeating those talking points, especially those living in NZ, I realise that they’ve bought into the Democrat/Obama narrative and that it’s a waste of time discussing it further. I usually don’t respond to arguments with a simple Bullshit, but the whole US tax increase is worthy only of that from here on.
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February 2, 2012 8:43pm
nasska

reid

On a good day I still have sufficient wits to realise that not all of the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims are terrorists. I’ll even go so far as to say that although their batshit mad religion instructs them to kill the Infidel & spread Allah’s word to the far corners of the world not all of them have the means or inclination to follow this command.

If I could use an analogy to illustrate the dilemma I face it would involve that docile creature the pitbull terrier. Now, we know that the wretched things kill & maim kiddies on a weekly basis & even turn on their owners but you will still find that they have their apologists. Every incident involving one of these canine freaks will bring some bleeding heart pitbull lover out of the woodwork to defend the breed. Their rationale will be along the line of:

either1) Not all pitbulls are like that…it must be the owner.

or 2) I don’t know what went wrong…it’s never acted like that before.

How can I paint the picture more vividly. You know that some will attack the people around them, without warning & for provocation known only to them, but you can’t tell which one….. ergo by definition, there is danger. If you avoid the species entirely the risk factor is zero.

The followers of Islam fit this analogy perfectly.
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February 2, 2012 8:51pm
Johnboy

I hear Al Gore and Branson are stopping in at Godzone after surveying the Antarctic to consult with Gareth on how gigantic their voluntary eco tax should be to save the planet.

Figures around 99% seem to be popular currently among the eco – committed. 🙂
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February 2, 2012 8:58pm
Griff

just wondering around blog space
always though that some descriptions of the greens were a bit harsh
till I read this
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2012/01/30/new-energy-outlook-report-contradicts-governments-drill-it-mine-it-energy-strategy/#comment-378419
nzmr2guy
Posted February 1, 2012 at 2:49 PM
Mabey we could get back to 100% renewable energy via the following.

Ban the importation of unnecessary electronic gadgets that waste power and dont contribute to society.Playstations, xboxs, ipods, big screen TVs, big stereo systems etc etc. Limit them to libraries and only for educational related stuff.

Change building codes to have maximum amount of lighting in new houses.

Ban non energysaving bulbs.

Have industry work on a 24/7 rotating roster to spread out load.

4 day working week
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February 2, 2012 9:03pm
reid

where do you consider the Saudis to be positioned

They’re US/UK puppets of course. Surely you know that.
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February 2, 2012 9:09pm
Scott Chris

Wat Dabney says:- ‘Why do you think you are entitled to other people’s money?”

It’s only your money because the government protects your right to keep most of it. And if you don’t pay your protection money, the government will send in its henchmen.

Once the government has taken your money, it is no longer yours, because you have no legal recourse to claim it back. So when the government redistributes the money those who receive the money are entitled to it by law.

In a nutshell: Law = Entitlement.
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February 2, 2012 9:10pm
Other_Andy

@Griff

“Ban the importation of unnecessary electronic gadgets……….”

Brings back memories.
Been to a place like that.
I was called the “Deutsche Demokratische Republik”
That bit about “Demokratische” is a bit of a misnomer though.
People loved the place.
I think that was because they were shot if they confessed they didn’t.
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February 2, 2012 9:13pm
Griff

you remember the mice in HHGTTG
I am inclined to view them with more caution
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February 2, 2012 9:16pm
Weihana

wat dabney (1,156) Says:
February 2nd, 2012 at 8:10 pm

I thought your question was rhetorical. The answer is I don’t.
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February 2, 2012 9:43pm
RF

On a quiet day I sometimes slum over on Red Alert. In virtually every thread there is a response from some idiot calling himself Spud says. He also has a smiley face or cross one depending on what he feels about it. He appears to be a simple soul and I feel that he should be encouraged to expand his limited knowledge. Perhaps he should give us a sample of his wit on KB. Recently he was called out as a troll and you could hear the sobs as he responded. It was like kicking your blind cat.
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February 2, 2012 9:45pm
Scott Chris

tom, it surprises me that you’d think that this election will be about anything other than Mitt Romney’s tax status and background in private equity and to a lesser extent, his record of flip-flopping over major conservative issues.

To say the left is framing the debate is spectacularly obtuse. Whoever the Republican candidate turns out to be, his political weaknesses are going to be exploited to the nth degree, as has been shown in the no holds barred primaries campaign. American politics has been characterized by bitterness and vitriol for decades now, so this campaign will simply be par for the course.

But oh no, character assassination is purely a leftist tactic, those nasty evil acquisitive power hungry lefties who want to steal your money and control your lives. Funny how conservatives never see the irony in all the abuse they dish out. Heaven forfend that a leftist might actually have good intentions.

In my opinion, Mitt Romney’s only chance of winning the presidency is if he declares that only he, as a rich man and a Wall Street insider, has the necessary knowhow to sort out the corrupt political lobbying and imbalanced tax system. Problem is, he’s neck deep in all that corruption already, so I don’t see him going down that path.

Pity really, because he does appear, from the little I’ve read of him, to be an excellent Manager.
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February 2, 2012 9:47pm
Weihana

tom hunter,

were he a US citizen deciding who to vote for

There’s no decision to be made. It will be Obama.
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February 2, 2012 9:54pm
bhudson

Heaven forfend that a leftist might actually have good intentions.

Heaven forfend indeed Scott, as the “road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
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February 2, 2012 10:06pm
tom hunter

It surprises me that you would claim that:

… this election will [not] be about anything other than Mitt Romney’s tax status and background in private equity and to a lesser extent, his record of flip-flopping over major conservative issues.

and

Whoever the Republican candidate turns out to be, his political weaknesses are going to be exploited to the nth degree, as has been shown in the no holds barred primaries campaign.

While also saying that:

To say the left is framing the debate is spectacularly obtuse.

How else would you define maintaining a relentless focus “to the nth degree” on Romney’s weaknesses – his tax status, private sector background flip-flopping – as anything other than framing the debate – and who else but the left do you think would be trying to do it during the Presidential election but his political opponent Obama?

Unless you want to argue (as many far-lefters do) that Obama is basically just a right-winger, with his almost total embrace of Bushian foreign policy, not to mention compassionate conservatism on steroids? In light of the many leftist attacks that have been made on Romney by Gingrich and Santorum, not to mention Romney’s equally left-wing attacks on them on occasion, you could argue that they’re all left-wing statists – and I might well agree with you.

But those arguments aside, your point seems contradictory at best and incoherent at worst.
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February 2, 2012 10:24pm
tom hunter

There’s no decision to be made. It will be Obama.

Are you saying that you are a US citizen and will be voting for Obama – or that the outcome is a forgone conclusion which obviates any decision, irrespective of whether you are US citizen or not?
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February 2, 2012 10:30pm
Griff

RF
so spud has progress from just a smiley face then?
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February 2, 2012 10:32pm
Scott Chris

The point I’m making is that a political weakness attracts attention like mass attracts gravity. It’s a natural part of an ancient game which is framed by human nature, not by political conspiracy.
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February 2, 2012 11:11pm
tom hunter

… those nasty evil acquisitive power hungry lefties who want to steal your money and control your lives.
…
Heaven forfend that a leftist might actually have good intentions.

As bhudson has already pointed out, it is precisely the “good intentions” about making our lives better that leftists have always used to justify to themselves and others, why they need to control our lives, and using our money to pay for it. Your attempted mockery might have more weight but for the everyday examples we see around us: here’s the latest entirely predictable one – Regulate Sugar like Alcohol. In any other context I’d probably have Weihana in here scoffing at such a reductio ad absurdity.

Funny how conservatives never see the irony in all the abuse they dish out.

We’ll talk about irony once you’ve finished telling me that you can see good arguments for the proposal on sugar.

But oh no, character assassination is purely a leftist tactic,

Well actually, I do live in hope that Romney will be willing to unload tens of millions of dollars of brutal, negative advertising on Obama over: unconstitutional “recess” appointments, “gun walking” to Mexican drug gangs, the incompetent waste that was the “Stimulus”, the illegalities that screwed the GM and Chrysler bond-holders in favour of the UAW, the incredible amount of corporate cronyism of Obama, the economy in general – and, of course, the PPACA.

But I would’nt bet on it. Like McCain, Romney reserves his worst for his fellow Republicans: the moment Obama pulls the race card the GOP elites will crap themselves as they always do.

In any case, when was character assassination mentioned? I was talking about narrative control. It might involve the former, but from the lefts’ points of view they’d just be revealing the truth about another capitalist predator. UPDATE: And I see you’ve now projected onto it political conspiracy as well. It’s no more conspiratorial than a game of rugby.

My point is that one can either indulge in these narrative games of the candidates (I’ll piss myself laughing if Romney continues to promise that he’ll repeal Obamacare) – or stand back and try to force the discussions where neither side wants to go; in my case, the unsustainability of the USA’s current spending and debt track.
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February 2, 2012 11:29pm
Viking2

Hodgetts has previously worked for the Fire Service, St John Ambulance and Surf Lifesaving NZ. His future in the police will be determined after an internal employment hearing after his sentencing.

Defence lawyer Todd Simmonds said Hodgetts was a “decent and generous young man” who had made a serious blunder, for which he was genuinely remorseful.

He was particularly aware that he had breached the trust placed in him by the police and apologised for any harm caused.

The other police employee charged with leaking police information is Timothy John Russell Sarah, 36, who was a prosecutor in the Auckland District Court. He faces 20 charges including possessing and supplying methamphetamine and Ecstasy.

Say no more.
All is sweetness and light isn’t it dime.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783066
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February 3, 2012 7:03am
Viking2

Minister in court to back lawyer
By Anna Leask
5:30 AM Friday Feb 3, 2012

a Government minister was in court yesterday to support a criminal lawyer charged with delivering a cellphone, cigarettes and a lighter to a high-profile murderer serving a life sentence.

Dr Pita Sharples, Maori Affairs and Associate Corrections Minister, arrived at the North Shore District Court ahead of the woman’s appearance.

Oh dear a lawyer didn’t know the rules of prison.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783072
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February 3, 2012 7:07am
Nostalgia-NZ

Viking2

Surprises me that any charges should be dropped against Hodgetts even though he’s obviously singing for his supper. Hard to think of actions like his that are more destructive to the work of police and the rule of law.
Singh offering $200 for what he previously agreed to pay $5000 for, another scumbag.
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February 3, 2012 7:44am
Viking2

This is the bit that got me.

The other police employee charged with leaking police information is Timothy John Russell Sarah, 36, who was a prosecutor in the Auckland District Court.

Course I have advocated for a longtime that Prosecution service should be separated from Police and made independent of them. Happens in other places. The requires the police to have an arguable case and not be vexatious as they currently are. Look at yesterdays example where Judge Gittos dismissed the fellow who was charged with a vexatious charge. What has that cost him? Can he sue for wrong prosecution and what will that cost him. See some of these prosecutors are fairly light weight in their legal thinking and there is no foil between the two parties.

To easy to influence criminal proceedings when you are part of the same outfit.

The one job Simon Power never got done. Unfortunately.
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February 3, 2012 7:58am

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