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February 25, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 February 2012

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kowtow

johnboy

while m. pythons are very funny. They find taking the piss out of Christianity very easy. They would not dare do the same to Islam.

This says 2 things. Pythons are cowards and Islam dangerous.
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February 25, 2012 9:03pm
Johnboy

Thanks kowtow. I knew there was a reason the Blackcaps never beat Pakistan. 🙂
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February 25, 2012 9:06pm
Griff

Cat Stevens and Mohamed Ali
Two Muslims that were unfairly discriminated against due to their superstitious belief
Better to stamp out all superstition than focus on the failings of one
Because you are all the same.to me.
Rational vs the boggy man.

Sheep the only life force worth shagging
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February 25, 2012 9:22pm
Pete George

Excellent finish by the Highlanders to outlast the Chiefs. The commentators mentioned the Highlanders nearly as much as they mentioned SBW.
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February 25, 2012 9:23pm
kowtow

More from the abortion row in the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9103831/In-the-third-world-unwanted-baby-girls-disappear.-Its-called-gendercide.-And-its-happening-in-this-country-too.html
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February 25, 2012 9:30pm
reid

Update on the US election:

http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/02/20/white-house-insider-pump-and-dump/

UM: So you’re sure about this – that the Obama campaign is doing this “pump and dump” as you put it?

Insider: No doubt whatsoever. I know it because I’ve helped to do it myself. Many times. Many campaigns. They slipped up a bit though – they left a clear marker for folks to see if they were actually paying attention. Which of course, most aren’t. Even ones like yourself who think they are…who think they are following all of this…you’re missing it.

UM: What was the mark?

Insider: Marker.

UM: What was the marker?

Insider: There was a debate not so far back – Republican debate. And the moderator kept hammerin’ away on the contraception issue. And there was no contraception issue at that time, right? Contraception? Really? Where the hell did that come from? And why did that moderator keep at it like he did? Repeatedly. It came off like a joke. People were sayin’ how stupid it was. How silly the media looked. You remember that?

UM: I do. Stephanopoulos, right? He was the moderator who kept bringing up the issue?

Insider: That’s right, George was pushing it. F-cking George. He is so transparent. I saw it immediately. Telegraphed it. I knew the second I saw his face as he asked the question – I KNEW they were setting something up. Not then – something for later. And now we see that plan unfolding. This false contraception boogie man issue.

Now that debate was over two months ago. And the issue of contraception, which seemed totally out of left field when it was raised during that debate – totally out of place…what is going on now? What is the media pounding on now?

UM: Contraception.

Insider: That’s right – contraception. It started out with a conflict between the Obama administration and the Catholic Church – but sure as sh-t the Obama team and the media have turned it into an issue over contraception and are painting the Republicans as these out of touch Bible thumpin’ radicals who want to take away women’s birth control. That is how this thing is being framed NOW – and it’s exactly how Stephanopoulos framed the question THEN over two months ago. This issue was being set up the whole time. And did you notice who was involved in the debate question first? What candidate?

UM: Santorum. Damn…it was Santorum.

Insider: Ah – there’s your light bulb moment for the day!

…Any of these Republicans – ANY OF THEM, are a hell of an improvement over Barack Obama. If it’s Santorum, or Romney, or Gingrich, or Paul…you fall in line and you support that candidate and you vote Obama the f-ck out. That’s the goal. That’s your motivation. PERIOD.

The “Insider” is the same guy who gave me the tip I passed on to you a few months ago that Obama was going to play the race card. I passed it onto you at the time since I considered it possible given who Obama is in terms of his history and behaviour. Of course I don’t know what the Insider’s evidence is or who he is, but I passed it on since looking at Obama’s background and dubious record thus far it could conceivably be a tactic in his particular twisted toolbox and it would have horrendous consequences, given the huge number of poor, young, angry and well armed black people in the large urbans who are, along with many others, doing very badly as the US’s very own GFC plays itself out. And if the US President does this, the US President, no less, well, enough said, right?

So who knows.

IF this is the same guy and I don’t know if this “Insider” is the same as another “Insider” who used to post on other sites during Bush 43, he is like me, in that he sees deep corruption, including murder and destruction on both sides of the US political fence.

Treat it as a conspiracy theory if you like, it’s certainly a theory, no doubt about that. How else could it not be, given none of us have evidence? But “by their actions ye shall know them” is a useful phrase to consider, in these times.
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February 25, 2012 9:34pm
kowtow

griff,
Islam is more than a superstition. It’s a culture ,as a Muslim judge in the US told an aetheist recently while dismissing charges of assault against a Muslim man for attacking the aetheist who was dressed as the Islamic prophet.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/02/why-we-need-anti-sharia-laws-muslim-judge-enforces-sharia-in-case-of-muslim-attacker-on-mocker-of-mu.html

“Rational v the boggy man”…..what have the Oirish got to do with this griff?

You say those 2 were discriminated against on the grounds of their religion, please provide proof of said assertion
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February 25, 2012 9:40pm
Griff

sorry kowtow
I have been digging post holes all day
one bourbon and cola = one post hole
thus my posts have decade pleasurably as the night has worn on
there is with out doubt an anti Muslim feeling being propagated by the USA
I find fault on both the Cristian and Muslim side
for me as a dedicated atheist you could say a hard atheist\
I find the disconcerting amount of disharmony perpetrated in the name of god a reason to discount his existence
never the less your contribution as a Cristian is still valued as any contribution to debate should be
cat Stevens was blacklisted for ne’er on a generation Mohamed Ali was stripped of his title for being a Muslim
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February 25, 2012 10:03pm
kowtow

draft evasion,not Islam.
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February 25, 2012 10:08pm
reid

Liberalism, like science is founded on reason, which is as far from insanity as humans are capable of being.

Conservatism on the other hand is an inherently deranged philosophy because in seeking to achieve a state of idyllic changelessness the conservative will desperately hold onto his ideals as a frame of reference whilst the world around him inevitably evolves into something completely incomprehensible and seemingly insane.

I see, Scott. Tell me, is “liberalism” pwogwessive, or is it something else? On the assumption its not different, how come “liberalism” advocates bigger govt is the solution for one would have thought this the opposite of “liberalism.” This seems a bit insane to be quite honest Scott. I mean its one thing for an educated mind to be able to entertain polar opposites at one and the same time and quite another for a mind to believe one thing and yet act in the polar opposite way. I think you may need to look in the mirror for in all your commenting history you do believe in big govt and that’s pwogwessivism through and through Scott. That’s not at all liberal, is it. How can it be?

I find the disconcerting amount of disharmony perpetrated in the name of god a reason to discount his existence

Griff the key is understanding this is not God’s world at the moment, Satan is in control and the Slanderer and Deceiver is very very active now. This is the key. Do not mistake it or ignore it.
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February 25, 2012 10:22pm
Griff

I am not a pacifist
you would have to have a very good reason to involve me personally in war
If I believed that U had a reason to perpetrate war on an idea i would volunteer
If i did not believe I would strenuously decline your invitation
some heroes in our culture did just that
New Zealanders including those in the first expeditionary force have a long history of declining further involvement in warfare
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February 25, 2012 10:32pm
Griff

Reid I find your view point confusing
you seem to have a healthy disrespect for the mechanizations of the USA
Yet your alignment to the anti science league disturbs me
as to your intelligence and mana I have a healthy respect for your obvious intelligence and your ability to laugh at yourself
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February 25, 2012 10:48pm
reid

Whose talking about war Griff?

All I’m saying is recognise evil is alive and working in this world, right here, right now, period. If you wish to imagine because God is omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent therefore this world should be a better place and the fact it isn’t is proof He doesn’t exist, I’m only explaining why this current world is indeed like you say it is. That’s all.

Edit: Griff sorry if your above was addressed to someone else. If so, ignore.
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February 25, 2012 10:49pm
reid

you seem to have a healthy disrespect for the mechanizations of the USA

No its just that like the way Israeli politicians treat their own citizens, so the USA politicians also treat their citizens, unbelievably, in the land of the free and the home of the brave, and the media in the US at least is in lockstep not with the citizen’s best interests but with the politicians best interests which in turn are dictated on a personal level by the media since re-election seems to be the only thing the US politicians care about but to get it they act against the best interests of their own constituencies.

In other words, the whole check and balance system setup by the fore-fathers has broken down. Now, it seems, one side or the other doesn’t make any difference, over there, does it. Now, if really rich Wall Streeters get into trouble, since they donate a huge amount and hold huge amounts of media and other influence as well, it seems it doesn’t matter which side is in. Same with oil, technology, all sorts of sectors.

In other words Griff, the US political system is broken. As evidenced by what’s been happening over there for the past few decades and what continues to happen.

This is NOT repeat NOT repeat NOT a comment against the US as a country nor a comment against the people of the US of A, it’s a comment against their leadership and that’s not the same thing, at all.

Yet your alignment to the anti science league disturbs me

In what way am I anti-science Griff? (If I am, I’m quite disturbed about it, as well.)
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February 25, 2012 10:59pm
Griff

it is not just the media usa politicians are paid to campaign by the richest faction is not representative of all it is represented by those with money MMP is far more Representative of the majority of people first past the post will always give a result like the USA and england
The evil and the righteous depends on were you stand on freedom
There needs to be a liberal right party in new zealand its just those that are liberal can not agree with themselves let along present a united front
as to the existence of evil “god did it you can not create one concept without creating the inverse
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February 25, 2012 11:20pm
reid

it is not just the media

No of course not that was a mere example. What is not commonly understood is the extent of the web. It’s totally ubiquitous everywhere that counts and that’s too much for most people even to contemplate let alone accept and that’s why and how they get away with it.

as to the existence of evil “god did it you can not create one concept without creating the inverse

The entire Bible covers the story of Satan Griff, starting with Genesis and ending with Revelations. The reason Satan is called the Slanderer and the Deceiver, amongst other names, is because he makes some people think its Gods fault this world now, is like it is. If that’s not clever, nay diabolical slander and deception, then what is? Luckily God laid it all out, in the best-selling book in the world. Go figure. Seriously, this is not rocket science, it is laid out. Bible 101.
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February 25, 2012 11:53pm
Weihana

reid,

God laid it all out, in the best-selling book in the world. Go figure. Seriously, this is not rocket science

True, it’s not rocket science. Not science at all in fact. Just fairy tales for the common cave man.

The reason Satan is called the Slanderer and the Deceiver, amongst other names, is because he makes some people think its Gods fault this world now, is like it is.

I was wondering if God is impotent or evil and you just clarified it for me: he’s impotent. The all-powerful, the almighty, the all-knowing… outdone by the devil once again. Perhaps he expends too much effort trying to make images appear in toast. Perhaps he could try a more direct approach to communicating with his people. Oh that’s right he wrote a book… or actually he was too lazy to do it himself rather he got others to write it in a language few understand and which relatively few had access to. We humans have discovered how to broadcast messages all over the world in an instant. We can reach anyone if we want to. Yet God in all his glory seems unable to manage a global broadcast. He leaves cryptic clues for the wise to discover whilst everyone else burns in a pit of fire for all eternity simply because they don’t get it. This God sounds like an absolute cunt… or is he just mysterious?

🙂
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February 26, 2012 12:37am
reid

outdone by the devil once again

Weihana, it’s over to us to come to Him, not the other way round. And He is always available to an open and honest and repentant heart, no matter what that heart has done in the past.

The purpose of temptation and sin is to allow us to build spiritual muscle by resisting it and its always very personal and God, if you ask Him, will always give you tools that work to do such. Same principle as going to the gym vs doing whatever one wishes to one’s own temple, or body, as is the modern vernacular. One suffers the consequences or reaps the benefits accordingly, depending what one’s decision is.

God loves you and wants to save you from the consequences of your current life but if you don’t acknowledge Him before you die, you will suffer for that.

Don’t imagine also, it’s a good idea to wait until your deathbed before finally asking Him for absolution. Even if He in His grace grants such, you’ll be a poor man in Heaven, and who wants to be poor, anywhere?
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February 26, 2012 12:53am
Weihana

reid,

The difference with the Gym is that they make an effort to let me know that they are just down the road and for a reasonable price will let me sweat all over their equipment. People who know that exercise is the key to a healthy life don’t expect people to just know it by magic, they research how the body works and demonstrate to us the benefits of fitness and then clearly communicate this knowledge to the rest of us.

God does none of this. He requires us to suspend judgment. He runs away from us and hides and then casts us to the pit of fire simply because we can’t find him. He is so powerful yet he can’t be bothered with a simple booming voice from the sky telling us the righteous path, rather he expects us to discern it from various nutjobs and other dubious sources.

Indeed he provides no means with which to discern his message from countless other messages which purport to be from other gods. How does one choose? Russian roulette? Is it a righteous god that casts people to the pit of fire because they place the wrong bets?

By the way, what does it mean to be a poor man in heaven? Is there money in heaven? Do people trade in heaven? What is the local currency? Is it fiat currency? What do people trade? Where do you find the answers to these questions aside from your rectum?
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February 26, 2012 3:45am
reid

Where do you find the answers to these questions

In your heart first and the Bible second Weihana. Drop your skepticism and ask God with an honest heart to show you the way. Then go here and enter any keywords you want.

This is your life you are talking about. If I were you, I’d consider the question that if religion really is as you clearly think it is, how come no other man in history has made such an impact on so many millions. 2,000 years from now, Jesus’ name will be as alive today as it has ever been. Who would have ever heard of Weihana, let alone any of the major figures of today’s transient world, such as Mandela, Churchill or any of the other humans?
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February 26, 2012 11:47am
Weihana

Reid,

Ask god? Sorry i don’t believe in imaginary friends. I do not accept that one’s “heart” is a satisfactory source for answers to questions about the nature of reality. Reality is properly understood through critical examination of evidence. Talking to imaginary friends is not a source of evidence.

Rational people do not accept “the heart” as an answer to life’s problems. If I ask a surgeon to fix an ailing relative I do not expect him to use his heart I expect him to use his brain. Likewise if I ask a lawyer to represent someone I care about. But you don’t accept being held to the same standard. You want to say things but not have your assertions questioned and when straightforward questions are put to you, you respond with nonsense.

Citing the bible is likewise not useful given that any particular interpretation, of which there are many, is chosen by the individual and so we are again faced with accepting assertions on the basis of someone’s imaginary friend.

It is no wonder that the vast majority of scientists are not religious because if they employed your way of thinking to answer scientific problems we would still be living in the dark ages. Indeed it will be the giants of scientific enquiry such as Einstein and Hawking that will be remembered in future centuries as the fathers of a technologically sophisticated society while Jesus et al will be remembered alongside the likes of Zeus, Gaia, Maui and inumerable other myths and legends that befit more primitive society.
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February 26, 2012 1:34pm

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