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February 18, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 February 2012

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bhudson

reid,

I am not uncharitable however.

While we are diametrically opposed on this NWO conspiracy and all its tentacles, I congratulate you on reaching 10k.

At least we can find some common ground on NZ economics and the welfare state
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February 18, 2012 7:54pm
nasska

If Your Pet Could Talk..

Dog: “They keep putting the lid down on the big water bowl.”
Goldfish: “Just because I have a three-second memory, they don’t think I’ll mind eating the same fish flakes over and over…………… Oh boy! Fish flakes!”
Dog: “Man, why do they keep rubbing my nose in it? I already KNOW whose it is!”
Parrot: “Tease, tease, tease! But do those greedy clowns ever really give me a cracker? SHIT NO!”
Cat: “Why are these people in my house?”
Dog “I don’t care if you take the jewellery or money, but don’t mess with the fridge.”
Goldfish: “Oh, tap-tap-tap! Oh brilliant, arsehole. There’s a new one!”
Dog: “The ‘pretending to throw a stick’ game is getting old, but I seem unable to stop myself from looking for it.”
Dog: “Why is the baby eating my food…”
Dog: “I bet if he could do that, he wouldn’t be telling me to stop.”
Cat: “Oh no, he’s picking me up to do another ‘land on all fours off the balcony’ test again.”
Gerbil: “OH NO, not again!”
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February 18, 2012 8:00pm
reid

Oh please! The answer is so obvious it shows the question as completely facile. A gajillion priority issues to deal with takes funding – a means to pay to action them.

Yes but bhudson why is the alternative explanation that a Western satrap had outlived his usefulness as part of a wholesale cleanup by the US/UK in order to secure oil supplies for the foreseeable future since people like Gadaffi had made inconvenient noises re selling oil in things other than USD seemingly beyond your ken?

You know the countries that didn’t used to have central reserve banks connected to the IMF? Libya, North Korea, Iran, Iraq.

I mean take it or leave it, I don’t care either way. But consider the possibility that monetary strategy may, just may influence global geopolitics.
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February 18, 2012 8:24pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Scott Chris (3,693) Says:

‘February 18th, 2012 at 10:44 am
Brian Smaller says:- “I would hope that the judge looking into compensation IGNORES partisan books from either side”

It won’t matter what he sees. Unlike the lay jury, this judge possesses the experience and training necessary to sort the wheat from the chaff. There is no solid evidence to implicate Robin Bain in the murders whereas the physical evidence implicating David Bain as the killer is overwhelming.

Shows how deluded Bain’s supporters are to even contemplate seeking compensation. As for Bain… well, he has no choice but to play along.’

Where do you get such bs from. There’s a tonne of solid evidence against Robin Bain and underwhelming evidence against David. Do some authentic research for yourself.

Don Mathias has no axe to grind, and at least did himself the justice of reading first, http://donmathias.wordpress.com/ . You on the other hand are sprouting long discredited nonsense.
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February 18, 2012 8:37pm
Wetfootmammal

Hi there Reid –

I’ve been thinking when Goyim round-up time might be. Any predictions? I’m thinking it’s going to kick off around the time of the 2012 Zion Olympics. Certainly the free world is living on borrowed time. I still haven’t figured out how the possessed satanist types are going to carry out their mass-slaughter though. Any ideas?
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February 18, 2012 9:06pm
EverlastingFire

2 years = 1 life. NZ ‘justice’ system at work: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6441765/Parents-don-t-want-sons-killer-in-town

(I thought the killer was a guy from the pic :D)
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February 18, 2012 9:06pm
reid

I still haven’t figured out how the possessed satanist types are going to carry out their mass-slaughter though. Any ideas?

Lots Wetfoot however I’ve discovered that for some reason people on KB get disturbed if one talks about how the possessed satanist types are going to carry out their mass-slaughter. I haven’t quite figured out precisely why that is yet, I mean, go figure.

People are just weird like that sometimes, aren’t they.
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February 18, 2012 9:34pm
Nookin

Well done Reid. I have a clear recollection that you were going to change name at 10,000 posts but can’t quite remember what it is to become.
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February 18, 2012 9:47pm
Griff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17082433
Iran’s nuclear ambitions could plunge the Middle East into “a new Cold War”, the UK foreign secretary has warned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17069455
The UK has signed a deal with France to strengthen co-operation in the development of civil nuclear energy.

posturing
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February 18, 2012 9:49pm
reid

Well done Reid.

Thanks Nookin, but unfortunately what it takes is sitting on your arse for simply days if not months and there aren’t even any fireworks when you get here, so I’m disillusioned in my tummy making me a victim entitling me to compo, is the way I’ve started to see it now.

philu you see has grown on me over the years.

I shall change my name, probably tomorrow.
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February 18, 2012 9:54pm
Scott Chris

Nostalgia

I’d be happy to debate the Bain case with you. You give me your top 10 pieces of evidence against Robin, and I’ll give you my top 10 pieces of evidence against David.
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February 18, 2012 10:08pm
reid

evidence against Robin

1) Robin didn’t have a flash jersey like David did.
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February 18, 2012 10:20pm
Nostalgia-NZ

2 will do Scott Chris,

How did Robin get blood smears on his palms.
How did he get blood spatter on himself that was occluded as coming from his own wound.
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February 18, 2012 10:26pm
big bruv

It is not often that I agree with Scott Chris, however on the issue of David Bain I am very much in Scott’s corner.

There is no solid evidence that points to Robin Bain, there is a truck load that points to David, it still amazes me that sane and rational people can still believe that David Bain is innocent.
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February 18, 2012 10:30pm
Nostalgia-NZ

‘There is no solid evidence that points to Robin Bain, there is a truck load that points to David,’

Pure hyperbole. You are welcome to give an explanation from the evidence that explains the 2 questions I’ve asked Scott.
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February 18, 2012 10:39pm
Griff

Is the first question not who had a motive?
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February 18, 2012 10:46pm
big bruv

Nostalgia

If you can tell me how Robin managed to shoot the entire family without leaving a fingerprint on the gun then I might start taking you seriously.
Or, perhaps you could tell me how Robin killed all of them without leaving any blood on his jersey?
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February 18, 2012 10:51pm
Wetfootmammal

To be honest Reid – i’ve barely met a sane person in my life. We’re all brought up on monumental delusions, and have been programmed that way for centuries. I’m just glad that our most righteous creator has a plan, because humanity has let the legions of hell take the whole world over.

How do you think they are going to turn us on each other though? Starvation? Mind manipulation?
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February 18, 2012 11:05pm
Nostalgia-NZ

big bruv

I can see how uncomfortable you are trying to answer my 2 questions. You’re asking ‘how’ something didn’t happen. I’m asking you to explain a fact, about something recorded in evidence that did happen. Anytime you’re ready, your welcome to answer my 2 simple questions.
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February 18, 2012 11:08pm
Scott Chris

Nostalgia – Here’s some food for thought, compiled by David Farrar I think:

It was a lucky guess when David Bain told 111 ambulance officer they are all dead, despite later saying he only saw two bodies
Again a lucky guess hen DB told police officer they are all dead
The 25 minute gap between DB finding his family dead and calling 111 is in no way connected with trying to wash clothes and removed blood.
The bruise on David’s head and scratches on his chest and graze on his knee – none of which he could explain, were just a coincidence
The lens from his glasses found in Stephen’s room happened weeks ago and he never noticed OR someone else had borrowed the glasses
The lack of fresh injuries on Robin despite the massive struggle with Stephen is just the product of healthy living
David’s finger prints on gun are from a previous time
David telling a friend he had premonition something bad was going to happen was a genuine psychic experience
Stephen’s blood on David’s clothing was nothing to do with the struggle – OR someone else borrowed his clothes
Robin managed to execute his family on a full bladder
The lock and key to the rifle being found in David’s room is not relevant as they were obviously placed there
Robin decided to wash David’s green jersey to remove blood and the fibres from jersey found under Steven’s finger nails
David’s bloody palm print on the washing machine was from him checking the bodies
The Ambulance officer was wrong when he said in his opinion Bain was pretending to have a fit
Robin Bain would logically wear gloves to prevent fingerprints despite it being a murder-suicide
That Robin Bain would type a message on a computer for David telling him he is the only one who deserves to live, instead of writing a note. A hand written note incidentally would have cleared David.
Also that having just shot his family, and knowing David was due home, that Robin would wait 44 seconds for the computer to boot up to leave a message
Robin would decide David deserved to live, but go out of his way to frame him for murder
Robin Bain placed fibres from Davids jersey under Stephen’s finger nails
Robin Bain would shoot himself with a gun in the most awkward way possible?
That Robin Bain changed jerseys after he had killed his family and in particular Stephen Bain, washed the jersey, hung it on the line and then change into a brown jersey before killing himself?
That there is a logical reason that David Bain can not account for the injuries on his face, the bruise or the scraped knee, yet knows he did not have them during his paper run.
That Robin Bain put blood on the inside of David’s duvet and on his light switch
That there is an innocent explanation for why David says he put on washing before he discovered the bodies, yet there is a blood print on the washing machine.
That Laniet was being paranoid when she told friends she was scared of David
That the “family meeting” David called the previous night and insisted everyone attended was not a way to make sure everyone would be at home to kill.
That Robin Bain would wear a hat while shooting himself in the head.
That even though David told a relative he hated his father, his father did not know this and deliberately decided David was the only one who deserved to live
That David either imagined hearing Laniet gurgling or she gurgled 20 minutes after death
That Laniet allegations of incent with Robin was true, as was her claims she had given birth three times by the age of 12 and a half.
That Robin Bain managed to kill four family members without a single trace of his blood, skin, or DNA being left at the scene.
That it is a coincidence that on the morning of the murders Bain took his dog onto a property, ensuring he would be noticed to give him an alibi.
That the magazine found balanced on an edge next to Robin was not placed there by David but fell onto its edge from Robin’s arms.
That a sickly Robin Bain managed to overpower his teendage son who put up a furious fight
That Robin Bain went and got the newspaper from outside, despite planning to shoot himself
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February 18, 2012 11:11pm
Nostalgia-NZ

I’ll be happy to, straight after you explain my 2 questions.
A’stonishingly easy for you I’m sure.
Otherwise somebody might think you can’t answer them.
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February 18, 2012 11:19pm
reid

What’s his motive Scott, as Griff also asked above?
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February 18, 2012 11:19pm
hiphip

Gosh, Dave missed out on all that inheritance he might otherwise have got worth $600,000 today. At least the successful tall poppies aren’t around to make him feel bad anymore. Poor Robin. RIP. http://youtu.be/xpMXYYX5l8M
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February 18, 2012 11:31pm
Nostalgia-NZ

hiphip
11.31

How fantastic for you.
Need a hanky?
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February 18, 2012 11:35pm
Scott Chris

I’d assume that his motive was greed. He’d be sole heir of the house.

Say it was worth 150 grand. People have killed for a lot less.
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February 18, 2012 11:37pm
Scott Chris

“How did Robin get blood smears on his palms.”

David put it there.

“How did he get blood spatter on himself that was occluded as coming from his own wound.”

Explain what this means.
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February 18, 2012 11:40pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Sure.
Of course there is no evidence that David put any blood on David’s palms, your answer is guesswork that will not do I’m afraid. Guess work evidence does not make.
As for the blood spatter, as it didn’t come from Robin’s wound it must have come from somebody else shot in the house that morning. I don’t want to stretch the ridiculousness that the spatter transported itself over great distances, including around corners to find itself on Robin’ shoe, so I’ll say he was in the murder scene of one of his family when they died. But you might have another explanation.
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February 18, 2012 11:50pm
Griff

Robin had a history that points towards a degree of instability that is gradually worsening
The daughter was off the rails in way that is consistent to The story about incest.
He had failing mightily as you could say.

From wot i know about David he was a weirdo
maybe a aspie or some non specific personality disorder.
That just means he is wired” different”
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February 18, 2012 11:53pm
Elaycee

TV Programme maker Bryan Bruce has had a gutsful of the Karam fiction – he’s even called for a change in the defamation laws because of the amount of innuendo / lies being propagated against Robin Bain.

The short audio of Bryan Bruce’s interview with Larry Williams (NewstalkZB) is here:

http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/Auckland/player/ondemand/1673316674-Online-tribute-for-Robin-Bain
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February 19, 2012 12:01am
hiphip

From a google search, there appears to be a site with a lot of useful information on the David Bain case: http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/ . I have to say, it is awful hearing people speak ill of the dead. I read an interesting article on line today. http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/6440132/Bain-defence-still-less-than-convincing But, that’s all I have to say on this never ending story. David should be ashamed of himself for what he did. Robin was an innocent victim, as were the rest of the Bain family. They do not deserve to have their reputations besmirched by people who never knew them.
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February 19, 2012 12:02am
reid

I’d assume that his motive was greed. He’d be sole heir of the house.

Say it was worth 150 grand. People have killed for a lot less.

Really? You think he might not have thought that possibly the police might be looking closely at the only survivor? Not for 150k, not his whole family. Come on.
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February 19, 2012 12:05am
hiphip

Hey. By chance, look what I found. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1387438/I-wrong-Jeremy-Bamber-says-crime-writer.html . Look a little familiar? Apparently, he did that for the money.
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February 19, 2012 12:21am
lee.hinkleman

I wanted to suggest that David Bain could have planted blood smears, but that’s too stupid for words.
Also, the “missing 20 minutes” never were missing. Sandra Wiblin(nee Bampton) testified that she first received
the call, thinking it was a prank call, before 7 am. When Sandra Bampton’s workmate arrived at
7 am, Bampton told her workmate, “You missed all the excitement”. Wiblin(Bampton) said she’d been
waiting almost 15 years to correct the time value of “7:09”, which may have been the time the call was
transferred from Hamilton to Dunedin.
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February 19, 2012 8:10am
Scott Chris

Nostalgia

So Robin’s dead body got some blood spatter on it. Say David shoots Robin, another family member investigates the noise, David shoots that other family member as they kneel in despair before the stricken Robin. Beyond the realms of possibility?

You are clinging to two pieces of ambiguous evidence whilst ignoring all the unambiguous evidence against David. Just open your mind and read them and ask yourself if this evidence is stronger than the two points you allude to (is that all you’ve got BTW?):

David’s Fingerprints in Blood were found on the Murder Rifle
David Changed his Testimony Regarding Rooms he Visited before Dialing 111
Broken Spectacles were found in David’s Room which David is likely to have Worn
David had a Compelling Motive
The gun belonged to David
David Stated that he Heard Laniet Gurgling
Blood on David’s clothes belonged to Stephen
David had a Shooting Board Consisting of Five Targets in his Room
David’s bloody palm-print found on the Washing Machine
Suppressed Forensic evidence requested by Joe Karam points to Robin not committing suicide.
Eyewitness Testimony of Plan to Commit an Act while on Paper Run
David Bain Testified that he was the only Person who knew the location of the Trigger Lock Keys
Testimony of David Intimidating his Family with his Gun
The Empty Shell Casing.
Robin Bain’s Body Appeared to have been moved
Blood found on David’s Gondaliers shirt.
David organised a Family Meeting for the night before the murders
Blood stains found in David Bains room.
David had injuries consistent with a fight with Stephen
David had a premonition of horror.
David Changed his Testimony regarding The Green Jersey
The Rifle Magazine Appeared to be Planted next to Robin Bain’s Body
There was Insufficient Time for the Wash Cycle to Complete as Testified by David Bain
David Bains Bloody Gloves were Found in Stephen’s Room
David had time to commit the murders and wash his clothes and clean the gun. Why did he wait, and then make out he was panicking on the phone to the police?
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February 19, 2012 8:11am
Nostalgia-NZ

Lee there’s another show tonight on the case. Not a Bryan Brown mockumentary with dimmed lights and scene setting music so it want be very exciting for those with a short attention span and who prefer not to think for themselves. Maybe we’ll hear some more information about the spatter spray in the lounge that had no interruption or shielding. I was sort of hoping somebody might answer my 2 questions, just to narrow the focus down and away from all the rumour, some good old forensic proof that speaks of its own explanation.
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February 19, 2012 8:21am
Scott Chris

reid

He thought he had planned the perfect murder. He sets up his old man, even if he gets charged he gets acquitted, then he gets the house. He is a psychopath. The deaths of his family members mean nothing to him. He is 22 years old. He is stupid enough to think he can get away with it.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Griff

First you say:

“The daughter was off the rails in way that is consistent to The story about incest.”

Jumping to a big conclusion there. Even if there was incest, what percentage of incestuous fathers blow away all their entire family to hide the secret? One in a million maybe? And why would he leave David alive to spill the beans?

Then you say:

“maybe a aspie or some non specific personality disorder.”

Another big conclusion jump. Maybe he did have Asperger’s as well, but the evidence overwhelmingly shows that he was a psychopath, so I guess you’re right. He does have a personality disorder.
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February 19, 2012 8:28am
Nostalgia-NZ

Scott you can answer two of my questions, I only asked 2.

But I take the first 6 of yours which are easy to answer. All my answers are from the evidence, not from a ‘secret’ site.

David’s Fingerprints in Blood were found on the Murder Rifle
David Changed his Testimony Regarding Rooms he Visited before Dialing 111
Broken Spectacles were found in David’s Room which David is likely to have Worn
David had a Compelling Motive
The gun belonged to David
David Stated that he Heard Laniet Gurgling

David’s fingerprints were said to be found in blood on the rifle, in sharp relief because of pressure from his grip. However a forensic scientist explained to the jury that they were not in blood because the ‘blood’ showed to be the wrong colour under polilight, he testified that it was a scientific impossibility. In terms of the sharp relief of the lines I think even a child knows that fingerprints flatten under pressure, that is the nature of skin.

David was in shock that morning as one would expect. But to put that shock in context one of the first officers attending the scene was unable to recall going into the laundry area despite being accompanied by another officer. Those first officers were all given special help for trauma in the days following the killings. It was a shocking scene and anybody that expects that David would recall in detail events as they unfolded when he got home that morning is frankly somewhat lost.

Broken spectacles yes. Another piece of nonsense. Those are the broken spectacles belonging to his mother and from which a lens was ‘found’ in Stephens room under several items which even the police officer who found the lens conceded that it might have been there for some time. Of course it was dust covered and had not blood on it.

David had no motive. Saying David had a compelling motive is absolute nonsense unless you identify it. Even the Crown didn’t present a motive.

Yes the gun did belong to David and 20 spent shells and 1 live shell from it were found in Robin’s caravan.

Yes, David did give evidence in the first trial of hearing his sister gurgle. From memory he also truthfully revealed that in his police statement. The police pathologist wrote to the Crown prioer to the trial with information from a more recent situation of a body emitting a gurgle and eventually recorded in evidence that what David heard was quite feasible to have happened after he came home from the paper round and found his family dead.

You’re taking information from the wrong sources. Either use the transcript or Karam’s book. Despite what van beynan says Karam’s book isn’t the defence case, in fact the 1st hundred pages or more is the Crown case from it’s earliest formation and the faults and misapprehensions are apparent. That is why Don Mathias has spoken out so strongly in his review.

If you are going to debate false material from a secret site, there is no point. But if you want to debate the authenticated facts that would be productive, more than likely you would reach the same conclusion the Jury did.
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February 19, 2012 8:43am
Nostalgia-NZ

Have to pull you up now Scott Chris. Where is the evidence that says this…,’but the evidence overwhelmingly shows that he was a psychopath, so I guess you’re right. He does have a personality disorder.’

No such evidence exists however there is evidence to the contrary revealed at the trial. What are your sources, don’t you understand your obligation to be truthful when discussing a person you identify in public?
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February 19, 2012 8:49am
lee.hinkleman

How could anyone persuade, or force, a wide-awake man to press his head squarely against
the end of a rifle barrel?
Hypnosis?
Drugs?
Handcuffs, duct tape, or other forms of restraint?
…just ask him to check, to see if something’s stuck in the barrel?
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February 19, 2012 8:58am
Scott Chris

Nostalgia

You seem desperately keen to explain away all the evidence implicating David Bain, and yet you unquestioningly accept the exceedingly tenuous case made against Robin.

Like the jury in the final trial, you have allowed your emotions and sympathies to over-rule your rationale.

I can’t argue against emotion, so I’ll leave you with your delusions.
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February 19, 2012 9:01am
hiphip

As far as I am concerned, anyone who cannot see by now David Bain IS GUILTY of the cold blooded murders of five members of his family is a lost cause. http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/evidence-david .Have some respect for the dead. I think a lot of people will get angry with the continuing vilification of an innocent man and rightly so. http://youtu.be/xpMXYYX5l8M . David Bain should just quit while he is ahead.
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February 19, 2012 9:16am
Elaycee

@hiphip: How true.

Karam (and his disciples) have been overcome by a malaise best described here:

“…you start with an untruth and build upon it with more lies and distortions, confusing the audience with the volume of misinformation. It’s a topsy turvy world in which propaganda overturns facts… ”

And you’re right – Robin Bain is the easy target because he can’t defend himself. He was murdered.
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February 19, 2012 9:36am
Nostalgia-NZ

Scott Chris 9.01

I guess those 2 questions were too hard for you. One of them was too hard for the police also so they didn’t submit the photo to the jury in the 1st trial showing the blood on Robin’s palms. As for the second question, the police didn’t ask themselves about that all it seems but it was a sure sign Robin was walking about the house at the time of the killings.

Pleased to leave it here, very uncomfortable with you making unsubstaniated claims against David in public on a message board you don’t own.
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February 19, 2012 10:11am
Dean Papa

apparently the defence opposed further testing on some exhibits, which could lead to the conclusion that they were not confident about what the results might imply. While if Laney was concerned she was running late as a result of observing Bain’s progress on his paper run, but in hindsight realises she was not late after all, then wouldn’t it be a reasonable conclusion that Bain was in fact ahead of time on his paper run, in which case he’d be home in time to turn on the computer?
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February 19, 2012 11:33am
Nostalgia-NZ

Dean Papa 11.33

It could also lead to the more realistic conclusion that the Crown had over a dozen years to conduct their tests on items the defence decided were not material enough to overcome the great yawning gaps in the prosecution.

You must think van beynan’s account of his ‘conversation’ with Mrs Laney is evidence, well it isn’t.

The best pointer for you is to pay attention to the fact that the Crown accept the 2nd Jury’s decision. They gave it their best shot, wasted millions and were never able to turn a simple murder/suicide into anything but that which it was. Refer to my 2 questions above if you think you can resolve Robin’s suicide.
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February 19, 2012 12:28pm
Dean Papa

DNA testing has advanced considerably since the first trial, the only plausible reason the defence would oppose further testing is because they are scared of what the results could imply. Like Karam having wasted the last 15 years of his life.
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February 19, 2012 2:19pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Yes, pity the Crown destroyed so much evidence. What was the reason they gave? Oh yes, the boy’s didn’t like body fluids in the police station. But turn you mind to the two simple questions that prove Robin Bain’s suicide Dean, a little to hard?
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February 19, 2012 2:37pm
Dean Papa

can you elaborate on the validity of those two questions, if you don’t mind.
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February 19, 2012 2:49pm

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editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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