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February 11, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 February 2012

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Viking2

Ah, its the weekend again, already.
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February 11, 2012 8:19am
Viking2

Probably mean GD will be filled with religious nutters, political cranks,rude people et al.

Doesn’t leave much for us normal, law abiding, tax paying, non reliious, non God fearing, stable, ordinary rich pricks to talk about.

oh yes, and I forgot Maori this and that.

Shall we talk about the weather. Of shit no weve had enough of that in the last four years as well.

So that leaves?
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February 11, 2012 8:22am
Manolo

When will the Maori Council do the same? http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/30428693/detail.html
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February 11, 2012 8:22am
Viking2

The lawsuit alleges that the beer makers and stores sold to Pine Ridge residents knowing they would smuggle the alcohol into the reservation to drink or resell. The beer makers supplied the stores with “volumes of beer far in excess of an amount that could be sold in compliance with the laws of the state of Nebraska” and the tribe, tribal officials allege in the lawsuit.

Well Manolo, no doubt the FBI will be on the case here. Its just another twist in their attempt to rule the world.

A commenter in the Herald this moring reckons Hilary (friend of Barak and Jenny will sign the extradition order for Dotcom.)
If that’s not a political use of the sytem by the FBI what is.

Time Key & co got some nuts and told them to go home.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10784838
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February 11, 2012 8:28am
Keeping Stock

Paul Holmes has written a very provocative column on Waitangi Day. Is it time to debate the future of this sacred cow?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/02/holmes-on-waitangi-day.html
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February 11, 2012 8:35am
Yvette

Right Honourable Winston Peters, Leader – NZ First
Parliamentary Question Time – February 9, 2012 …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_jx7v5OoHrM

“Could the Minister please tell the country as to whether anybody over there knows anything about this very expensive brown elephant in the name of the Maori Party, and has he discussed with the Prime Minister after all, this man is his Electorate Chairman and presumably has the odd discussion with this now sometimes [Winston resuming his seat] visitor to Hellensville?”

The Speaker looks totally bemused and askance, while Members laugh.
After two more attempts to rephrase this into a coherent question Hon Craig Foss answered –

Ministers do not make decisions about what programmes New Zealand On Air funds or shows. It is a contestable funding model at arms length from Government.

… Which everyone knows. This waste of 3.5 minutes of Parliament’s time was
“Winston is back in Parliament, and had a good first week in the House.” – David Farrar
Really?
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February 11, 2012 8:38am
Viking2

Paul Holmes, Winston Peters. Geriatric time and space wasters.
Waitangi. fully supported by both in the past.

Irrelevant people.
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February 11, 2012 8:47am
Manolo

A crook is caught: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8417320/jailed-for-stealing-apples-worth-170000
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February 11, 2012 9:07am
fatnuts

On the some comment regarding the origin of the israelites; I’m no great fan, but they do have a fascinating history. Link below is to a PBS documentary, has aired on History channel a couple of times. Reports that the Jews invented monotheism, principals of justice, terrorism and spent as much time beating up on themselves, as getting beaten up by the Romans.

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=YmQmA9Xj7nc
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February 11, 2012 9:26am
Other_Andy

‘Kill all Jews and annihilate Israel!’

Iran’s Ayatollah lays out legal and religious justification for attack.
A website with close ties to Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has outlined why it would be acceptable to kill all Jews and annihilate Israel.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2097252/Kill-Jews-annihilate-Israel-Irans-supreme-leader-lays-legal-religious-justification-attack.html

The original article:

Necessary destruction of Israel from the perspective of Imam Khomeini

Residents of Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and Hifa can be targeted even by Shahb 3. Population density in these three adjacent areas composes about 60% of Israeli population. Sejjil missiles can target power plants, sewage treatment facilities, energy resources, transportation and communation infrastructures; and in the second stage Shahab 3 and Ghadr missiles can target urban settlements until final annihilation of Israel people

http://tinyurl.com/7s8y2xu

Khomeini must be a Zionist or CIA conspirator. All the usual suspects keep on telling us that Iran is a peaceful country that doesn’t want to harm anybody and that the ‘wipe Israel from the map’ comment shouldn’t be taken literally.
It doesn’t supply Hezbollah and Hamas with money, explosives and weapons.
It doesn’t train terrorists and it doesn’t support Assad’s henchmen either.
All those accusations are just part of a Zionist conspiracy.
The Iranian government are just a jolly bunch of cuddly mullahs.
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February 11, 2012 9:31am
Scott Chris

Mathematical proof that Valentine’s day will be cancelled this year:

14 – 2 – 12 = 0
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February 11, 2012 9:40am
flipper

Keeping Stock….

No matter what is written, if it is under the name of telly-tubby Holmes, it is not worth reading.
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February 11, 2012 9:53am
Other_Andy

Fifth Revolutionary Guard Commander Dies of Heart Attack

The Iranian State media just announced that another high ranking Revolutionary Guard commander, Ahmad Sodagar, has died of a heart attack.

http://tinyurl.com/7mgor66

Sodagar, a major general, had served as the head of security and intelligence of the Guards’ Khatam-al-Anbia Base and was the chief commander of the Guards’ Prophet Mohammad Division. He had served in the Iran-Iraq war and, at the time of his death, was the head of the program “Defaeh Moghadas” or Holy Defense.
This is the fifth Guard commander to die because of a heart attack or stroke in the past month.

A ‘Röhm-Putsch’ Iranian style?
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February 11, 2012 10:07am
hj

Down with Winston; climate change is a crock. Amen
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February 11, 2012 10:07am
hj

Witchy-poo on wise words she heard at Waitangi
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2012/02/09/waitangi-wisdom/
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February 11, 2012 10:17am
hj

“On, no, I can’t let you away with that, the transgressional retraction presented by Brian Leyland at the polar bear symposium said”. “Rubbish..”. etc
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February 11, 2012 10:20am
Elaycee

Other Andy says: “This is the fifth Guard commander to die because of a heart attack or stroke in the past month.”

Crikey. What a coincidence. Probably diet related…
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February 11, 2012 10:27am
flipper

Other_Andy…

I think DPF should open a couple of books:

1) Will Tel Aviv bow to Washington and let them “handle” Tehran ?

2) Will Tel Aviv run out of patience/confidence in Obama’s Washington and treat Tehran to a repeat of Iraq?
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February 11, 2012 10:29am
kowtow

Anybody been following this story ? It relates to the tolerance that Islam shows to it’s adherants.
Point is the guy seems to have been coming here to seek asylum.Other issues. Malaya can arrest you for blasphemy? Is that an extradictable offence? Should malaya be in the Commonwealth given it’s appalling legal record and it’s treatment of non Muslim minorities.

Ref the unhealthy Iranian general…..clearly a CIA inspired Zionist executed plot.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2012/02/20122105349670993.html
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February 11, 2012 10:37am
Tauhei Notts

I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the N.Z. First party’s backbenchers. They seem to have a degree of common sense that is rarely found amongst that gaggle of gays or the Nat’s yes men and yes women.
It seems almost oxymoronic to have common sense and a leader like Winston.
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February 11, 2012 10:39am
mikenmild

kowtow
As blasphemy is a crime in Malaysia, I guess extradition to Saudi Arabia would be possible. I think in most extradition arrangements, where an offence is not punishable by death in one country, extradition from that country is conditional on that penalty not being imposed by the prosecuting country.
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February 11, 2012 10:47am
Elaycee

@Tauhei Notts says: “I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of the N.Z. First party’s backbenchers”

Really? Perhaps you haven’t been following comments made by the NZ First List MP Asenati Taylor:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/11/candidate-focus-asenati-taylor/
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/tag/asenati-taylor/

Rather unimpressive, I’d have thought.

And lets not start on the former North Shore Mayor (and man with poor toilet habits) – Andrew Williams.

You’re being generous in the extreme with your assessment of Winston’s colleagues.

Have you switched your allegiances from ACT? 😀
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February 11, 2012 10:52am
Yvette

On Winston
But maybe secrecy is so ingrained with him, he can’t bear to reveal his target in advance.
– David Farrar

More likely another point which reflects the similarity between Peters and Penny Bright.
Both appear motivated by self-aggrandizement and the wish to have the population to see them as imparting great revelations with even greater repercussions – a messiah complex.

One writes Kiwibloggers, have you seen this ? blah, blah and more blah … – then a great ‘revelation’
The other goes “To the Prime Minister: Does he have faith in the performance of all his ministers?” “Yes …” “Then … also blah, blah – also supposedly a great revelation
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February 11, 2012 11:00am
Other_Andy

@ kowtow

“Malaya can arrest you for blasphemy?”

Nothing new. Blasphemy (Only when it involves Islam) is punishable in ALL Islamic countries. I some countries it is a capital offence and in countries where it isn’t perpetrators are usually dealt with by an ‘outraged mob of believers’ enforcing Sharia. Blasphemy laws are regularly used to harass, imprison and kill those of religious minorities.
The OIC has, for years, been pushing the UN in adopting Blasphemy laws which will limit the freedom of speech and religion. As the OIC is the largest voting block in the UN, the UN has been supportive of this move. The General Assembly passed several resolutions which called upon the world to take action against the “defamation of religions.” Needless to say that action is ONLY necessary when it involves Islam.

“Ref the unhealthy Iranian general…..clearly a CIA inspired Zionist executed plot.”

Of course it is. We will wait for the official announcement by Irna which will expose the enemies of the Peaceful Glorious Islamic Republic of Iran.
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February 11, 2012 11:00am
mikenmild

From the Crimes Act:
Section 23: Blasphemous libel
(1) Every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 1 year who publishes any blasphemous libel.
(2) Whether any particular published matter is or is not a blasphemous libel is a question of fact.
(3) It is not an offence against this section to express in good faith and in decent language, or to attempt to establish by arguments used in good faith and conveyed in decent language, any opinion whatever on any religious subject.
(4) No one shall be prosecuted for an offence against this section without the leave of the Attorney-General, who before giving leave may make such inquiries as he thinks fit.
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February 11, 2012 11:12am
joana

As expected , Williamson blames the council over the CTV building. He should resign. When is Key going to reply to John Scarry’s letter re the parlous state of structural engineering in this country which was sent to him in Oct 09 ? How scandalous that the four minutes re this was cut out of ”the Anger and the Anguish ” when it was screened by the Sunday programe.
John Scarry has been vindicated and nothing Williamson says will alter that.
Anyone wanting to see this excellent Aussie doco can do so at ABCforeign correspondent. The programe in its entirety was shown all over Aussie and Asia. Only NZers were kept in the dark. In this programe’s advertising they say…telling you things your govt does not want you to know..
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February 11, 2012 11:21am
hj

17 March 2008: Harcourts is entering the People’s Republic of China, the world’s most populous country, following an agreement between Harcourts International Limited (HIL) and a group of Chinese businessmen, HIL Executive Director Paul Wright announced today.

The recently signed Master Licence Agreement will soon see a head office and four real estate offices operating in Shanghai and rapid expansion subsequently, Mr Wright says.

“This new venture is a huge and exciting step for Harcourts with the potential to expose our brand to over a billion people and to bring some positive spin-offs for the New Zealand market too,”
he says.

“China is a large and dynamic market and to sign an agreement that is expected to see hundreds of Harcourts offices offering our full range of services in that vast market is a significant move towards our goal of being one of the world’s leading real estate franchise groups.”

“As people would expect in such a populous country the volume of real estate transactions in China is huge, and as their economy continues to grow that volume is expected to climb – so the potential for Harcourts as it expands in Shanghai and then beyond is substantial,” Mr Wright says.

Mr Wright says one of the biggest challenges of expanding into China has been the amount of translation required. “However, that has also been one of the most exciting aspects, as it is a sign we’re achieving our goal of being a multi-national, multi-lingual global company.”
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0803/S00265.htm

80% of our population growth (and consequent need for infrastructure upgrading plus infill housing etc, etc) is from outside NZ
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February 11, 2012 12:11pm
adze

Mikenmild

From the Crimes Act:
Section 23: Blasphemous libel

Yes that’s interesting (I didn’t know it was still on the books), but do you really think there is a moral equivalence between that, (which you must admit is never enforced despite “blasphemy” being a routine occurrence in NZ both online and off), and the examples given in countries with Sharia law? Because I don’t think a reasonable person would genuinely believe that.
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February 11, 2012 12:14pm
Johnboy

Time that David went back to his favourite haunt and did some serious work on exploding the population.

http://www.theaucklander.co.nz/news/great-barrier-population-falling/1267394/

Randy young bastards 🙂 are in short supply it seems! 🙂
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February 11, 2012 12:18pm
RightNow

Vahrenholt: It hasn’t gotten any warmer on this planet in almost 14 years, despite continued increases in CO2 emissions. Established climate science has to come up with an answer to that.

SPIEGEL: You are an electric utility executive by profession. What prompted you to get involved in climatology?

Vahrenholt: In my experience as an energy expert, I learned that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is more of a political than a scientific body. As a rapporteur on renewable energy, I witnessed how thin the factual basis is for predictions that are made at the IPCC. In one case, a Greenpeace activist’s absurd claim that 80 percent of the world’s energy supply could soon be coming from renewable sources was assumed without scrutiny. This prompted me to examine the IPCC report more carefully.

SPIEGEL: And what was your conclusion?

Vahrenholt: The long version of the IPCC report does mention natural causes of climate change, like the sun and oscillating ocean currents. But they no longer appear in the summary for politicians. They were simply edited out. To this day, many decision-makers don’t know that new studies have seriously questioned the dominance of CO2. CO2 alone will never cause a warming of more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) by the end of the century….

SPIEGEL: You claim that the standstill has to do with the sun. What makes you so sure?…

Vahrenholt: In the second half of the 20th century, the sun was more active than it had been in more than 2,000 years. This “large solar maximum,” as astronomers call it, has contributed at least as much to global warming as the greenhouse gas CO2. But the sun has been getting weaker since 2005, and it will continue to do so in the next few decades. Consequently, we can only expect cooling from the sun for now.

SPIEGEL: On balance, you predict a global cooling of 0.2 to 0.3 degrees Celsius by 2035. Why such a risky prediction?

Vahrenholt: If you want to revitalize the deadlocked debate, you have to have the courage to name a number. And we derive this number from scientific studies on climate history to date….

SPIEGEL: You claim that the standstill in global warming since 2000 has been caused in large part by a simultaneous decline in solar activity. But, in fact, the sun behaved relatively normally until the middle of the century, only becoming noticeably quieter after that. How does this fit together?

Vahrenholt: There are two effects: the declining solar activity, as well as the fluctuations in ocean currents, such as the 60-year Pacific oscillation, which was in a positive warm phase from 1977 to 2000 and, since 2000, has led to cooling as a result of its decline. Their contribution to the change in temperature has also been wrongly attributed to CO2. Most of all, however, the last sunspot cycle was weaker than the one before it. This is why the sun’s magnetic field has continued to weaken since 2000. As a result, this magnetic field doesn’t shield us against cosmic radiation quite as well, which in turn leads to stronger cloud formation and, therefore, cooling. What else has to happen before the IPCC at least mentions these relationships in its reports?…

SPIEGEL: Why are you taking on the role of the climate rebel with such passion? Where does this rage come from?

Vahrenholt: For years, I disseminated the hypotheses of the IPCC, and I feel duped.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,813814,00.html
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February 11, 2012 12:51pm
wf

Viking2 said: “A commenter in the Herald this moring reckons Hilary (friend of Barak and Jenny will sign the extradition order for Dotcom.)
If that’s not a political use of the sytem by the FBI what is.

Time Key & co got some nuts and told them to go home.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10784838”

I’m inclined to agree.
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February 11, 2012 12:56pm
plebe

Yvette (1,607) Says:

February 11th, 2012 at 8:38 am
Right Honourable Winston Peters, Leader – NZ First
Parliamentary Question Time – February 9, 2012 …
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_jx7v5OoHrM

“Could the Minister please tell the country as to whether anybody over there knows anything about this very expensive brown elephant in the name of the Maori Party, and has he discussed with the Prime Minister after all, this man is his Electorate Chairman and presumably has the odd discussion with this now sometimes [Winston resuming his seat] visitor to Hellensville?”

The Speaker looks totally bemused and askance, while Members laugh.
After two more attempts to rephrase this into a coherent question Hon Craig Foss answered –

Ministers do not make decisions about what programmes New Zealand On Air funds or shows. It is a contestable funding model at arms length from Government.

… Which everyone knows. This waste of 3.5 minutes of Parliament’s time was
“Winston is back in Parliament, and had a good first week in the House.” – David Farrar
Really?

Yvette ,its called democacy in action and to the IDIOTs who think the older NZ are a waste of time and space, you have to get here to be called old farts. Keep smoking and eating junk food while posting on kiwiblog,you will not get the chance to be insulted,because you will be dead.
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February 11, 2012 1:25pm
Griff

Right now
Is busy quoting an ex shell oil executive and politician

Try a scientist view
Pennsylvania State University Professor of Environmental Ethics Donald Brown
“The climate disinformation campaign can be understood as a movement of organizations and individuals that can be counted on to systematically attack mainstream climate change science in ways that radically depart from reasonable scientific skepticism,”
ideologically based disinformation is ethically abhorrent particularly in regard to behaviors about which there is credible scientific support for the conclusion that human activities threaten life and the ecological systems on which life depends”
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February 11, 2012 1:28pm
Johnboy

That’s a shattering destruction of Yvettes argument plebe! 🙂

Unfortunately I suspect Yvette is probably twice as old as you and ten times wiser.

Perhaps you should smoke a lot more (of whatever) and go on the MacDonalds diet 24/7 so you can start to catch up to her intellectually! 🙂
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February 11, 2012 1:35pm
hiphip

My apologies for interrupting this comment thread, but I have a freedom of speech issue that affects us all as a society. Joe Karam, who is just publishing a new book on the Bain case has shut out all opposition to his ideas through legal defamationsuits. He has even sued a newspaper for publishing a story about us. Whether or not you agree with what we have to say, we still have a right to say it. Visit http://www.counterspin.co.nz for more info.
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February 11, 2012 1:41pm
grumpyoldhori

Flipper, Nah the foreskin choppers will dump a couple of nukes to take out the Iranian nuke facilities, but since all Iranians are nuts they will reply with a barrage of chemical tipped missiles on Tel Aviv.

Then the yids will nuke Tehran, of course the Russians or Chinese could nuke Israel to get get rid of a mad dog country.

The Israelis dream that the yanks will have a nuke throwing contest to protect them against China or Vlad, will not happen.
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February 11, 2012 1:50pm
Griff

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2400140,00.asp
Anonymous has ended a rather busy week with a hack of the CIA website, which is currently offline.
Last month, in the wake of the Megaupload shutdown, Anonymous also took down the websites for the Department of Justice, the Copyright Office, and the FBI.
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February 11, 2012 1:55pm
fatnuts

Griff, so just character assasination and attempted labelling. No critique of the argument. Sounds like denial.
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February 11, 2012 1:59pm
Pauleastbay

plebe (203) Says:

February 11th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

Yvette’s comment had nothing to do with age, she was merely pointing out that his drunken performance in the chamber was and absolute disgrace even for a lying charlatan like himself.

As always happens after an election I ask people who voted for that wanker and once again they have gone to the mattresses and become very hard to find.

Peters is an embarassment to his party ,New Zealand and himself.

Why has no one asked him about that shameful farce in front of the Speaker? Winston were you pissed or have you got dementia?

Either way he should not be in Parliament.
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February 11, 2012 2:02pm
RightNow

IPCC reviewer resigns from AGU saying: I will not renew my AGU membership

“Although I have been a long-time member of the American Geophysical Union (AGU), I hereby refuse to pay my membership fees. The main problem is the organization’s Position Statement on the purported “Human impacts on Climate” This statement includes the following statements: “During recent millennia of relatively stable climate, civilization became established and populations have grown rapidly. In the next 50 years, even the lower limit of impending climate change—an additional global mean warming of 1°C above the last decade—is far beyond the range of climate variability experienced during the past thousand years and poses global problems in planning for and adapting to it.

Warming greater than 2°C above 19th century levels is projected to be disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing widespread loss of biodiversity, and—if sustained over centuries—melting much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea level of several meters. If this 2°C warming is to be avoided, then our net annual emissions of CO2 must be reduced by more than 50 percent within this century. With such projections, there are many sources of scientific uncertainty, but none are known that could make the impact of climate change inconsequential. Given the uncertainty in climate projections, there can be surprises that may cause more dramatic disruptions than anticipated from the most probable model projections.”

As an active communicator in geophysics, spanning subjects ranging from marine geology to climate science, and an expert reviewer for the IPCC Working Group 1 on the up-coming Assessment Report 5 (my comments have just been submitted to the organization), I can no longer bear to support the AGU.”

Martin Hovland
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February 11, 2012 2:06pm
Scott Chris

fatnuts says:- ” so just character assasination and attempted labelling. No critique of the argument”

If you read RightNow’s post, the first thing Vahrenholt does after repeating the tired old “it hasn’t got warmer for 14 years” which I’ve rebutted numerous times, is to trash the IPCC.

That aside, we’ll start with this:

➡ “But the sun has been getting weaker since 2005, and it will continue to do so in the next few decades. Consequently, we can only expect cooling from the sun for now.”

What evidence does he have for this assertion?
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February 11, 2012 2:22pm
fatnuts

Joanna, CCC must have some liability, if this report is true: “Records showed the permit was issued “following the receipt of designs, specifications and construction documents provided by independent engineers and architects employed by the owner”.”

Certainly has put the wind up building owners, part of Merivale mall has just been shut down, including the supermarket (my local). But this is the way it should it should be.
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February 11, 2012 2:28pm
bhudson

Elaycee,

Other Andy says: “This is the fifth Guard commander to die because of a heart attack or stroke in the past month.”

Crikey. What a coincidence. Probably diet related…

Diet? Do you think, perhaps, he has been ‘ingesting’ lead?
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February 11, 2012 2:38pm
wat dabney

There’s nothing tired or old about “it hasn’t got warmer for 14 years.” In fact it is more and more relevant as the period extends further and further.

Imagine, today’s 14 year olds have experienced no warming in their entire lives. Yet still the same old hysterical tripe is shovelled at us. We were promised continuously and rapidly increasing temperatures and tens of millions of climate refugees. An acceleration in sea-level rise was a certainty.

None of it happened.
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February 11, 2012 2:45pm
fatnuts

Scott, you can rebutt the data that says warming stopped in 1998, but the data still remains. I guess the opinion on expected cooling is based on the best information we have to date, including the CLOUD results demonstration how clouds are actually seeded, rather than the now defunct CO2 models.
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February 11, 2012 2:52pm
RightNow

scotty, you’re famous in your own mirror. You haven’t rebutted anything:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1998/to/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:1998/to/trend
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February 11, 2012 3:07pm
Scott Chris

Sigh. Okay here we go again:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics/Total_Heat_Content_2011_med.jpg
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February 11, 2012 4:06pm
Other_Andy

Another ‘nothing’ story in a ‘nothing’ paper.

The total volume of water that has melted from all of the world’s polar ice sheets, ice caps and mountain glaciers over the past decade would fill Britain’s largest lake, Windermere, more than 13,000 times, according to one of the most comprehensive studies of the Earth’s frozen “cryosphere”.
The survey found that the melting of the cryosphere has been responsible for raising sea levels by about 1.27cm over the same period, equivalent to a rise of about 1.5mm a year. This was on top of sea-level increases due to the thermal expansion of seawater caused by rising ocean temperatures.

Duh. This has been happening for the last 130 years (Yes Griff, Luc and Scott, long before the rise in evil CO2). And the rise is about 2 mm a year. This is history, not news.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png

What, not news?
We need to sensationalise the story.
Disaster, doom, another apocalypse!

World’s melted ice would cover US – study (Oh my God!)

Using satellites that have monitored the disappearing ice over the entire surface of the globe, scientists estimated that some 4168 cubic km of ice disappeared between 2003 and 2010 – enough to cover the United States in 0.5m of water.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10784514
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February 11, 2012 4:15pm
Griff

fatnuts (126) Says:

Not character assassination just pointing out who he is a lobbyist for the energy industry
His arguments are typical of lairs lobbyist lawyers loopys and sheep
Not supported by science and not relevant to the scientific debate just more rehashed bullshit that i have seen so many times before
right now and you have posted so many link’s with out reading or understanding them that i must conclude you are nut jobs.
editorial pieces are not science lobbyist do not give an unbiased view The ex oil exec is just trying to sell a book

As in rightnows link above temperatures from 1998 proves nothing when it comes to climate its a long term trend not yearly anomaly Show the graph for a hundred years not thirteen

Rebut the hokey stick
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February 11, 2012 4:17pm
RightNow

Sigh, post one that has recent data. Your graph ends at 2003 – it’s flat lined since then.
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February 11, 2012 4:24pm
RightNow

“the hokey stick” wise words Griff.
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February 11, 2012 4:25pm
Griff

I suggest that the pair of you invest in one of these and leave the blogosphere alone
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2398754,00.asp?obref=obinsite
synthetic orifice that lives in a plastic tube and connects to a computer. Based on data from an Internet connection, the unit warms up, lubes up, pulses and grips any item stuck into it. On the other end of a connection, a “performer”—who could be a paid “cam girl,” or the aforementioned military wife—hand-operates a sensor-covered rod to run the motors in the RealTouch.
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February 11, 2012 4:26pm
wat dabney

Scott,

Can you please explain exactly what that chart is supposed to show us.

The alarmists promised us runaway warming and have been proved completely wrong. That is fact, not opinion.
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February 11, 2012 4:27pm
Griff

alarmists
frame the debate
baaaa baaaa baaaa
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February 11, 2012 4:31pm
wat dabney

Griff,

You could at least be gracious in defeat.
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February 11, 2012 4:38pm
kowtow

I’ve just come across this Channel 4 Martin Durkin documentary made in 2007 called The Great global warming swindle .It’s 1 hour 13 mins and excellent.
How come we only ever get treated to Al Bores Inconvenient Lies when this has been around for 5 years .
This is time well spent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ
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February 11, 2012 4:43pm
Griff

http://ph.omg.yahoo.com/news/2c-warming-goal-now-optimistic-french-scientists-185046987.html
French scientists unveiling new estimates for global warming said on Thursday the 2 C (3.6 F) goal enshrined by the United Nations was “the most optimistic” scenario left for greenhouse-gas emissions
The French estimates are derived from two different computer models that crunch data for four scenarios based on atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2), the main greenhouse gas.
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February 11, 2012 4:49pm
RightNow

griff is a master of parody, I’m surprised not many pick up on that
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February 11, 2012 4:49pm
Griff

Propaganda

As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda, in its most basic sense, presents information primarily to influence an audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus possibly lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or uses loaded messages to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a

……political agenda………
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February 11, 2012 5:14pm
Johnboy

On another tack all together. I actually heard our learned PM talking to Leighton the other day regarding the leaky homes fiasco. He said (among other things) that “The greens pushed to stop using tanalised timber in housing” and suggested that was one of the reasons we have rotting houses.

That is utter bullshit. Tanalised timber was never used in internal wall framing. Boric treated was used as defence against wood boring insects until kiln dried came along. Neither of these treatments were intended to withstand wet conditions.

Tanalised was only used for exterior work where it would likely get wet.

The whole leaky building disaster lies at the foot of the monolithic cladding fad that was pushed by companies that manufactured cement board sidings and the coatings that where used on them.

The final nail in the coffin was the incompetence of the government/local government agencies that signed off on the process due to their utter incompetence and all of them are collectively running for cover as they do best when the shit hits the fan.

Arse protection is the one great (and only skill )the sad fucks that inhabit local and central government possess.
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February 11, 2012 5:17pm
Johnboy

The worst part of this of course is we have a PM that talks shit, believes it, then gets away with it.
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February 11, 2012 5:32pm
Scott Chris

RightNow you do know how to read numbers don’t you? The graph measures the total heat content anomaly up to 2010.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

wat dabney says:- “what’s the graph supposed to show?”

It shows the heat content anomaly in the atmosphere and the ocean, and demonstrates what a small proportion of it is contained by the atmosphere. It shows a steady trend upwards, interspersed with the occasional dip. For a fuller explanation, read this:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-stopped-in-1998-intermediate.htm

Another point I’ve repeated a few times is the fact that the solar cycle and El Nino and La Nina cycles have cooling and warming influences which mask the heating trend. You may have noted that we have just experienced a deep solar minimum.

http://climateforce.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/nasa_2011_total_solar_irradiance.gif
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February 11, 2012 5:36pm
RightNow

What’s the data source scotty? I searched SS for the graph and found this:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=4
Which says “The ocean data was taken from Domingues et al. 2008” – which only covered to 2003

If it’s not the same graph post a source.

edit – it’s the same graph at the link you just posted for wat, so my comment stands – data ends in 2003
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February 11, 2012 5:49pm
reid

I wonder how much server heat is generated worldwide by all the fruitless and pointless discussions on AGW happening 24/7/365 on a worldwide basis firstly generated and then stored for years on server farm after server farm all generating more and more deadly heat, and also, whether this is possibly a plot by the fiendish deniers to lure the alarmists into the trap of: Aha! You hypocrites! which they’ll spring hopefully soon, following up with the devastating observation that defending their stupid science any longer will by definition, make them hypocrites merely by participating in the defence so take that, you alarmists you.

What could the alarmists possibli do then? It’s checkmate, isn’t it. Over and out. Nowhere to go. Sayonara, baby.
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February 11, 2012 5:52pm
Johnboy

reid. 🙂

Wish I’d said that!
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February 11, 2012 5:54pm
reid

Somebody had to Johnboy. I mean fuck. A man can only take so much.
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February 11, 2012 5:57pm
Scott Chris

Rightnow says:- “What’s the data source?”

Church et al (2011) http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=46

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011GL048794.shtml
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February 11, 2012 6:00pm
adze

Reid
Unfortunately climate change discussions are only slightly less futile than religious ones, which predate the former, and will no doubt continue long after the former are settled
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February 11, 2012 6:01pm
Johnboy

And lets face it you sure have taken a lot over the years!

May your G-D be with you. 🙂
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February 11, 2012 6:02pm
Griff

Add the Israel thing
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February 11, 2012 6:04pm
Scott Chris

reid says:- “I wonder how much server heat is generated worldwide by all the fruitless and pointless discussions on…..”

I wonder how much server heat is generated worldwide by all the fruitless and pointless discussions on conspiracy theories?

Heck reid, it keeps us happy. Like billy goats butting heads it’s an expression of our humanity. And it’s really quite important to straighten out you skeptics, cause there’s a lot at stake here.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Did someone say RELIGION?
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February 11, 2012 6:09pm
wat dabney

Scott,

Your chart seems to be an attempt at misdirection.

You are well aware that all the alarmists promised us warming, warming and more warming.

Nothing happened.

In other words, they have been proved wrong.

This means that CO2 has absolutely nothing like the effect they claimed.
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February 11, 2012 6:10pm
Johnboy

I’m pretty keen on seeing an Israeli F16 lobbing a nuclear bunker buster into Fordow.

It would be very interesting to see what isotopes would be scooped from the stratosphere.

Sort of like a DNA fingerprint really.

If the Ayatollahs just happened to be inspecting the works at the time it would be a win-win bonus. 🙂
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February 11, 2012 6:13pm
Johnboy

Gee wat. You talk to Scotty!

You poor bastard! 🙂
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February 11, 2012 6:15pm
reid

Heck reid, it keeps us happy.

But I only care about keeping me happy Scott. What about that don’t you understand?
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February 11, 2012 6:18pm
RightNow

scotty, you said “The graph measures the total heat content anomaly up to 2010.” but Church et al 2011 only covered to 2008. Wrong source perhaps?
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February 11, 2012 6:28pm
Lance

@grumpy 1:50pm

So is like slagging Israel in the most derogatory terms you have at your disposal like talking dirty for you?
Does it excite you in ways you don’t understand?
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February 11, 2012 6:36pm
Viking2

When I was a kid, I couldn’t understand why Eisenhower was so popular. Maybe this will explain why.

General Eisenhower Warned Us.
[
It is a matter of history that when the Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces, General Dwight Eisenhower, found the victims of the death camps he ordered all possible photographs to be taken, and for the German people from surrounding villages to be ushered through the camps and even made to bury the dead.

He did this because he said in words to this effect:

‘Get it all on record now – get the films – get the witnesses – because somewhere down the road of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened.’

This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum because it ‘offends’ the Muslim population which claims it never occurred. It is not removed as yet. However, this is a frightening portent of the fear that is gripping the world and how easily each country is giving into it.

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended. This e-mail is being sent as a memorial chain, in memory of the, six million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians, and 1,900 Catholic priests Who were murdered, raped, burned, starved, beaten, experimented on and humiliated’ while many in the world looked the other way!

Now, more than ever, with Iran , among others, claiming the Holocaust to be ‘a myth,’ it is imperative to make sure the world never forgets.

[
This e-mail is intended to reach 400 million people! Be a link in the memorial chain and help distribute this around the world.

How many years will it be before the attack on the World Trade Center

‘NEVER HAPPENED’,

because it offends some Muslim???

Do not just delete this message; it will take only a minute to pass this along.

FREEDOM ISN’T FREE…SOMEONE HAD TO PAY FOR IT!
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February 11, 2012 6:54pm
Johnboy

“This week, the UK debated whether to remove The Holocaust from its school curriculum—-”

The poms have always been a worry V2. Something to do with Queen Victoria’s periods I believe.

Hell, they gave us the treaty instead of letting us get on with proper ethnic cleansing.
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February 11, 2012 7:00pm
Johnboy

Shit Grumpy must be having a really big kai tonight.

We’ve given him more than enough openings to leap in with the bayonet! 🙂
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February 11, 2012 7:04pm
Viking2

Johnboy (6,615) Says:
February 11th, 2012 at 5:17 pm

On another tack all together. I actually heard our learned PM talking to Leighton the other day regarding the leaky homes fiasco. He said (among other things) that “The greens pushed to stop using tanalised timber in housing” and suggested that was one of the reasons we have rotting houses.

That is utter bullshit. Tanalised timber was never used in internal wall framing. Boric treated was used as defence against wood boring insects until kiln dried came along. Neither of these treatments were intended to withstand wet conditions.

Tanalised was only used for exterior work where it would likely get wet.

The whole leaky building disaster lies at the foot of the monolithic cladding fad that was pushed by companies that manufactured cement board sidings and the coatings that where used on them.

The final nail in the coffin was the incompetence of the government/local government agencies that signed off on the process due to their utter incompetence and all of them are collectively running for cover as they do best when the shit hits the fan.

Arse protection is the one great (and only skill )the sad fucks that inhabit local and central government possess.

Fail johnboy.
This time the PM is correct. The greens didn’t like the arsenick in the timber treatment so railed against its use.
Plenty of houses built with treated timber in the frames especially plates and beams and strctural elements.Some councils wouldn’t pass go without it. Boric was certinly used and afforded protection because the boric treatment tends to stop the fungi that destroy the wood.

That said the mono clad has something to answer for but had those houses been built with treated timber of either kind we would only be doing reclads and not rebuilds. Dried timber will rot and lose strength even though not wet. Just worked on elements of a 15 year old 3 storey school building. When you looked at the beams and 12×2 yu would say they were fine. Testing showed that they had no strength left. The timber fibres had stopped being fibres and were a collection of short peices of wood fibre. Doesn’t happen with treated timber or hardwood.
Happening all round the place. Bugs like warm and huimid which the wall of a house is. Nothing changes that so bacteria infect the timber, coming alkive when conditions are right and going back to spore form when its too cold. Day in day out. Like rust they never sleep.

And that’s the bit no one talks about YET.
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February 11, 2012 7:05pm
Scott Chris

Okay 2008, but you really are grasping at straws RightNow.

2008 isn’t 14 years ago, and that is the point I was rebutting. And the study itself was only released last year, which was a refinement of previous studies subjected to peer review. That’s the way it works. The data reliability tends to improve as methodological errors are addressed.
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February 11, 2012 7:15pm
bereal

Hey, Viking2 Is ‘arsenick’ something that happens when you are shaving your ring ?
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February 11, 2012 7:22pm
fatnuts

Johnboy, re the F16 thing; the US et al don’t have a great record thus far at fidning so-called WMD’s. Seems the asymetric assault on Iran is being far more effective than presumed, but the persceived threat has to remain for the politics.
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February 11, 2012 7:29pm
Viking2

bereal (1,326) Says:
February 11th, 2012 at 7:22 pm

Hey, Viking2 Is ‘arsenick’ something that happens when you are shaving your ring ?

you tell us bereal. I’m sure you know the answer given your head spends so much time up your own arse. 😆
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February 11, 2012 7:49pm
bereal

Kim Dotcom seems to be down to one chance
One roll of the dice for Kim.

If he can’t avoid extradition to the USA it seems like he is a goneburger.

Based on the Pricewaterhouse expert in todays Herald he stands a big chance of conviction in USA
The FBI will not want to go to the trouble in the glare of worldwide media to be succesful in extraditing him
just to have him found not guilty.

The racketeering part of his charges carries a penalty of up to 20 years and a fine of 3 times what he earned.

Federal conviction means you must serve at least 80% of your time before parole eligability.

The good news for Dotcom…. He will be able to lose a lot of weight.
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February 11, 2012 7:58pm
nasska

You know the drill. Every 14th of February you get the chance to display your fondness for a significant other by showering her with gifts, flowers, dinner, shows and any other baubles that women find romantic. Every Valentines day you rack your brains for that one special, unique gift that will show your wife or girlfriend that you really do care for them more than any other. Now ladies, I’ll let you in on a little secret; guys really don’t enjoy this that much. Sure seeing that smile on your face when we get it right is priceless, but that smile is the result of weeks of blood, sweat and consideration. Another secret; guys feel left out. That’s right, there’s no special holiday for the ladies to show their appreciation for the men in their life. Men as a whole are either too proud or too embarrassed to admit it.

Which is why a new holiday has been created.

March 14th is now officially “Steak and Blow job Day”. Simple, effective and self explanatory, this holiday has been created so you ladies finally have a day to show your man how much you care for him.

No cards, no flowers, no special nights on the town; the name of the holiday explains it all, just a steak and a BJ. Thats it. Finally, this twin pair of Valentine’s Day and Steak and Blow job Day will usher in a new age of love as men everywhere try THAT much harder in February to ensure a memorable March 14th!

The word is already beginning to spread, but as with any new idea, it needs a little push to start the ball rolling. So spread the word, and help bring love and peace to this crazy world. And, of course, steak and BJ’s.
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February 11, 2012 8:00pm
bereal

Now lets not split hairs Viking2

i asked about YOUR shaving habits.
i made no reference at all to the fact that you are illiterate.

Butt we are all concerned, how is your ring piece Viking2 ?
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February 11, 2012 8:04pm
Johnboy

I bow to your knowledge V2 however we built houses for decades framed of non tanalised timber namely rimu or totara etc.

We then built houses framed of boric treated pine for many years. Boric was designed to stop borer etc. (which was not a problem with the hardwoods we used to use).

We then went to kiln dried pine, which again when used for framing inside a dry wall would not rot unless it got wet.

To my knowledge we never built houses internally framed in tanalised (CCA) timber as the whole purpose of tanalising was to stop pine rotting when in a wet situation and it was never envisaged that framing timber inside a wall in a normal house would be in a wet situation.

It is really stupid to suggest that we would not have a leaky homes disaster if we used tanalised timber for the framing. The houses would still leak and get mould growth and the cladding inside and out would still rot but I accept that if the framing was tanalised to say H3 or H4 we could just reclad the frames.

The prime minister was talking shit. I know it. He knew it and I suspect that you do to.
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February 11, 2012 8:05pm
bereal

Hi naaska
glad you have turned up tonight.

i did misunderstand you regarding climate change last night.

Totally out of charecter for me i jumped in and attacked you for no good reason.

i want to say sorry for that.

No excuse. i was wrong.

Thank you for taking the time to put me right, i needed that.
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February 11, 2012 8:11pm
reid

This story here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/6402721/Obama-tries-to-defuse-birth-control-fight

and this quote

The policy shift was aimed at preventing the issue from becoming a liability for Obama with Catholic voters, while at the same time trying not to anger his liberal base.

Makes me wonder for the article doesn’t say, whether this means the liberals in the US make employers pay for birth control in all other but religious companies. Crikey. We think Liarbore’s bad.
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February 11, 2012 8:13pm
Johnboy

I think you should virtually suck nasska’s dick beryl.

Just to prove you really mean it you understand! 🙂
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February 11, 2012 8:13pm
nasska

reid

….”But I only care about keeping me happy Scott”……

Your 9.11pm & 9.55pm yesterday made interesting reading. Editorially a little heavy on the Muslim cuddling but not short on fact.

It is noticeable that your best comments come when you are under pressure. Hence I’m sure that you will be comforted to read that we, your audience, realise that oysters produce pearls from constant irritation.
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February 11, 2012 8:17pm
nasska

Bereal

Sweet as.
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February 11, 2012 8:18pm
Johnboy

Is it my imagination reid or do they carefully select photos of Barrack that make him look very much like a monkey?

I mean I know the left wing tried to liken G W to a chimp but some of these Obama photos are just beyond the pale to be honest.
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February 11, 2012 8:18pm
Viking2

Johnboy
We then went to kiln dried pine, which again when used for framing inside a dry wall would not rot unless it got wet.

Um no and that’s just what I was saying. This stuff dries and falls to bits and is constantly attacked by bacteria because its surface wets and dries according to the humidity inside the wall on any given day. If it got wet during construction then it carries on.
Same as what makes curtains go mouldy.

http://curtaincleaners.co.nz/whys-and-all-about-curtains/what-about-water-on-the-windows/

Check out what happens to wooden blinds left in the sun.
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February 11, 2012 8:19pm
Johnboy

So boric was fine but kiln dried was no good then V2?

That I can accept but we NEVER used tanalised ( CCA) inside wall framing and that is what the PM suggested today.
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February 11, 2012 8:23pm
Viking2

I wonder which year I will get an apology?
Bereal if you think dotcom is wrong then you need to learn to be a bit more cynical and learn to figure out what the law says as opposed to what people who use and misuse the law to control others think.
There is al sorts of stuff going down that will impact on your and our freedoms in the next while.
Open yon eyes.

There are none so blind as they who will not see. Jonathan Swift (author of Gulliver’s Travels)

http://screencast.com/t/vgJlg3tIi
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February 11, 2012 8:26pm
nasska

An Irish farmer moved to Wales and set up a farm in the town with the longest name in the world, Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.

Sadly, his cows did not survive the branding.
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February 11, 2012 8:32pm
Viking2

Johnboy (6,621) Says:
February 11th, 2012 at 8:23 pm

So boric was fine but kiln dried was no good then V2?

That I can accept but we NEVER used tanalised ( CCA) inside wall framing and that is what the PM suggested today.

Thats correct and others did. But I’m sure your house won’t fall down if you didn’t.
Houses always have and will get wet. I remember houses alongside the Hutt River, window high in water before the stop bank was built and after Clouston and co cut all the trees out of Akatarawa and Whitemans Valley. Stripped the linings, dried them out , relined and away ya went.
Pipes burst as they are up here. Old plastic pipes are cauzing greif here now. Wet houses.
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February 11, 2012 8:33pm

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