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January 28, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 January 2012

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Griff

Zichichi is regarded as an effective communicator who succeeded in focusing attention on the scientific world in the Italian media. However, he has been criticized from many quarters for his biased views. In his book on Galileo, Galilei, Divin Uomo: as many book reviewers have pointed out, this is a book with an ideological agenda, in which objectivity is sacrificed to the demonstration of the thesis that Galileo was a deeply committed Catholic more than a scientist and was therefore willing to renounce his scientific convinctions for his faith.[citation needed]

Elio Fabri, professor of Physics at Pisa, Enrico Bellone, professor of the history of science at the University of Milan and Piergiorgio Odifreddi, mathematician at Cornell University and at the University of Turin, have all criticized his essays both with regard to form and with regard to contents (often pointing out errors in the scientific part itself). Odifreddi has even been sued by Zichichi for defamation for having pointed out the numerous contradictions in his writings in an article entitled “Zichicche” (a portmanteau word from “Zichichi” and the Italian “chicche”, meaning “interesting bits”), which later became a book consisting of a collection of writings about Zichichi by various people. There is a preface written by Giulio Andreotti.

Nobel Prize laureate Hans Bethe has been quoted saying about Zichichi “eccellent organizer, mediocre physicist”.[3]
[edit]

Born 1929 and he was a physicist not a climate scientist
also a bit of a catholic nut case
eminent scientist
not in todays world maybe 40 odd years ago

Andy you are trolling bullshit
again

I would much rather admit the selfish reasons why I do not support trying to do any thing about it than perpetuate a life of cognitive dissonance as you cling to false ideas about the world around you
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January 28, 2012 10:33pm
nasska

reid

He was an interesting coot. So far I have only read the article in Wikipaedia but even from that it is obvious that he was a genius.

Unfortunately not so I. The principle of the brushless motor I can just about get my head around… the energy field I find harder but I guess that the lightening analogy sort of explains it.

What I don’t find clear is whether he actually found a source of energy or merely worked on an alternative distribution system.

Can you enlarge?
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January 28, 2012 10:37pm
reid

Can you enlarge?

Zero point energy. Tom Beardon.

Google those.
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January 28, 2012 10:43pm
Luc Hansen

Other Andy (he should change his handle to the Mad Hatter)

“All major scientific bodies in the world believe that the evidence supports AGW”

They don’t Griff.
Look it up.

I did. They all do. If you are right, prove us wrong by naming a major scientific body that does not accept the chances of AGW theory being wrong is insensibly close to zero. I like to look at all sides, so I tried. But I can’t. And 194 governments do too. That’s why they all of to the useless conferences.

Like others on here, e.g. V2, you just make things up.

The stuff most made up is of the sacrifices we supposedly have to make to mitigate global warming. There are no sacrifices. There are simply costs and benefits, and the benefits of moving out of fossil fuels, over a time span of decades, is immense. Cleaner, quieter, healthier, and better, much, much better, for our children and grandchildren.

Some companies will gain extraordinary riches, others will shrivel and die. It’s called creative capitalism.

What’s the fucking problem?
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January 28, 2012 10:43pm
Other_Andy

@Griff

I would much rather admit the selfish reasons why I do not support trying to do any thing about it than perpetuate a life of cognitive dissonance as you cling to false ideas about the world around you.

I don’t have any skin in the game.
You are still playing the man.
As for cognitive dissonance….
The data is there.
How do you account for the lack of warming at the moment?
Like Kevin Trenberth from the IPCC said, it must be a travesty that you can’t.

So being a catholic is also an important factor in determining the validity of data.
You can’t be:
1. White
2. Old
3. Male
4. Catholic
In any combination?
And only valid for those who oppose the idea of AGW?

@Luc

I just keep on collecting the articles.
It is (still) legal to write things YOU don’t agree with.
And while some groups are trying to make it a criminal offence, to disagree with AGW is also (still) legal.
Hamas isn’t in charge here yet.
I don’t care if that makes me a “mad hatter” in your eyes.
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January 28, 2012 11:58pm
Griff

Sorry if you don’t understand the bullshit you spout.
83 year old ex physicists that rites catholic propaganda in his spare time.
Does not make a valid argument as a climate scientist.

All major scientific bodies .

Is not countered with random bullshit from nut cases.
Or lists of medical doctors vets and engineers

Grow up and understand the dribble you spout has nothing to do with science
and everything to do with spin from the oil lobby.
If you have no skin in this that just makes you a useful idiot.

Who was your last hero
did you nutters not bring out “lord” mokington
hope you got your frills parading around that old crook as legit

I have chased your links time and again and found half truths, out rite lies, dodgey nameless websites, lawyers, lobbyists and Cristian funder mentalists
and many references to guys like lutze who frankly stink of oil

your arguments have all been destroyed by better men than me
you lies and spin are boring
in short
get a life noddy
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January 29, 2012 1:59am
Manolo

More pandering to the racists: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8410345/far-north-name-changes-under-treaty-deal
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January 29, 2012 9:59am
Manolo

Way to go, Sarko. Higher taxes coming to France: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.2df6e7c373564e8707ae008497defb77.391&show_article=1
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January 29, 2012 11:16am
travellerev

William Rodrigues is a hero. He saved hundreds of people on 911 and was celebrated as a hero and even invited to the White House. All that changed when it became evident that what he had to say did not support the official CT. Here is his story
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January 29, 2012 11:31am
RightNow

Griff – I think we can safely assume you believe the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately.

So what are you doing about it? How are you trying to save the world?
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January 29, 2012 11:36am
wat dabney

Have you ever seen anyone fight so hard to avoid clearing their name?

Michael Mann is desparate to stop more emails being released, under freedom on information legislation, whilst at the same time claiming that the original shocking Climategate revelations were simply taken out of context.
Remember, this is the guy whose notorious Hockeystick chart – the very foundation of global warming alarmism – was so comprehensively discredited, but only after he had been as obstructive as he possibly could for as long as he possibly could in allowing others to view his shoddy, cooked data and his incompetent home-made computer code.

How many times did the IPCC publish that fabrication (and later quietly drop it, without any acknowledgment that this main plank of evidence was actually complete fiction)?

“As important as it is to protect Mr. Mann’s feelings from being hurt, trillions of dollars are at stake with climate-policy decisions being made based on his work. From cap-and-trade to the Kyoto treaty, it’s not enough to make a choice based solely on a trust that this secretive cabal of climate scientists is telling the truth. The taxpayers paid Mr. Mann; they deserve to know exactly what they were getting for their money.

So far, the Climategate disclosures have unmasked shoddy methods in service of a leftist public-policy agenda. Compelling release of all communications – dirty laundry and all – is the only way to provide the full context. Let an informed public decide on its own whether they’ve been hoodwinked by charlatans, or that the sky really is falling.”

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/27/global-warmings-dirty-laundry/
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January 29, 2012 12:03pm
reid

I think we can safely assume you believe the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately

Can we? Why can we safely assume anything of the sort? What about the CERN experiments that indicate the big yellow ball of fire in the sky actually plays much more of a role than GHG’s do? Or don’t they matter?

I’ve got no problem with proceeding apace with alternative energy sources not because it’s at all urgent for the sake of the planet but because it simply makes sense to commercialise hydrogen since it is as abundant as the oceans and would change the geopolitical driver of oil which causes so much evil in the world. It won’t happen of course it will pretend to happen but those who control the capital for research funding aren’t about to let universities discover anything which takes away their ability to charge whatever the hell they like for the current energy source which the world’s infrastructure is built around. So it won’t be commercialised until they’ve extracted the very last drop of money they possibly can from that and then somehow miraculously someone will discover a commercially and thermodynamically viable way to separate the H’s from the O and then the sheeple will clap and cheer and probably build statues to the heroes and probably several to the generous venture capitalists who made the whole thing possible.

This is how it will happen. Of course were the sheeple more educated they would have been demanding such be funded since the fifties and wouldn’t be taking no for an answer from any politician who tried supporting those nice oil men who were paying them so very much to get themselves re-elected and by now we’d have it all up and running but that’s not how the world works, is it. What is a shame is that even those who claim they do want alternative energy to happen immediately fail to educate themselves and instead bleat and munt and point to nothing but the idiotic and pathetic solar and wind technologies that is the bread and circus distraction equivalent specifically designed for those in the world who’ve fallen hook line and sinker for the AGW distraction meme.

You have to love Tavistock. They think of everything, don’t they. A meme for everyone. I wonder what emblems they use on their charts where they lay out all the bread and circus memes for the all the various social segments. I bet its sheep. Probably particularly dumb sheep breeds as well. After all, accuracy is important, isn’t it.
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January 29, 2012 12:03pm
Griff

@ right now
If you Enter an argument/discussion late in the game it is considered polite to read previous posts on the topic
1 We are all right jack in fact food will become more valuable great for our primary industries
2 If new Zealand stopped burning carbon tomorrow it would make little difference to the INCREASE in carbon admissions for the year
3Till the USA Canada Australia and the rest of the world do why cripple our selfs for no reason

On the personal level I live on solar and wind power and have done for about six years
Doing so is an inexpensive lifestyle choice and a interesting hobby and has nothing to do with climate change if I could plug in I would

I have not yet found a power lead that can run for 500 meters under water and spin around with the tide and wind and increase to whot ever distance I am away from my mooring at any given time I will stick to wind and solar for the foreseeable future

I also own some pretty dirty toys 2.5L twostroke outboard is not green nor is a Detroit diesel two stroke I drive a older v6 car not green either

In short I am a selfish arsehole

that still does not change the science being accurate
climate is changing the world is heating and we are responsible
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January 29, 2012 12:25pm
mikenmild

A good article here on Newt’s loony proposal for a moonbase:
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/01/newt_gingrich_s_moon_colony_and_mars_plan_.html
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January 29, 2012 12:48pm
RightNow

Griff, every time I’ve seen you comment on the climate change topic what I understand you’re saying is that people are fools if they don’t believe the consensus (which I condensed above into “the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately” but am happy for you to provide a better summary) – without doubt. I added ‘without doubt’ as my impression from reading your comments is that you consider it stupid to question any aspect of the IPCC reports.

If I have misunderstood your position then I’m happy for you to correct me. Perhaps you do in fact harbour a little skepticism – perhaps about some of the measures being taken to address the problem, perhaps about some of the science itself. I have only ever seen you say ‘believe the consensus’ (and discrediting skeptical scientists based on their affiliations and funding rather than what they said) so I don’t know how much you actually research yourself.

“climate is changing” – no argument
“world is heating” – is it headed for catastrophic heating? What’s the problem if the heating is actually beneficial?
“and we are responsible” – human activity contribute GHGs to the atmosphere. The degree to which those GHGs have an effect is IMO not yet fully understood (particularly the feedbacks). My understanding is that even the IPCC considers a doubling of CO2 would produce about 1.2degC of warming. I can’t recall exactly the error margins but I believe they’re quite large. As more data is collected I’d expect a more accurate assessment to be able to be made.
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January 29, 2012 1:10pm
RightNow

reid:
“In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep.” – Einstein
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January 29, 2012 1:13pm
Griff

(which I condensed above into “the world is heading for catastrophe if GHG emissions are not drastically cut immediately” but am happy for you to provide a better summary

Have I called the sky is falling
no

you are making up a level of alarm that i do not feel is warranted by my past statements

As I have stated all major scientific bodies believe that the science behind global warming is sound

you may chose to believe other wise
however that belief is not based on science as known by the scientific world

wat

David Schnare, a scientist and lawyer who runs ATI’s Environmental Law Center, is the source of your link
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=American_Tradition_Institute
The ATI website’s About page says that “ATI accepts no government grants, and our financial backing has to date primarily derived from a broad and growing base of grassroots contributors.”[11]. In 2010, $140k of its $186k of funding reportedly came from Doug Lair (whose family sold Lair Petroleum to William Koch in 1989)[2] and the Lair Family Foundation. (The remainder was $1k from memberships, $40k from the American Tradition Partnership, and $5k from Atlas Economic Research Foundation). [6]

lawyers and lobbyists again
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January 29, 2012 1:25pm
RightNow

Griff, you now seem to be saying the science behind global warming is sound but the conclusion is wrong. The IPCC has called the sky is falling.
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January 29, 2012 1:34pm
reid

See the Wall Street Journal published this letter from 16 scientists telling the politicians to relax re: AGW – it’s not important, they say. The meme’s falling apart. Even Rupert’s allowing dissent. Perhaps they’ve realised that they over-estimated the stupidity of the global population and even though they tried really hard, at the end of the day the whole AGW meme was just too fantastic to keep running.

Some pigs are just so ugly no amount of lipstick will work even despite all these decades of gradually dumbing down the whole education system. Even then it’s still so ugly that AGW won’t fly, except in the minds of the exceedingly idiotic. And they’re rapidly dwindling after what seemed like a promising start.

No doubt to save face they’ll try to keep the UN-sponsored ETS memes running but sadly they’ll probably find the only countries dumb enough to actually implement them are particularly slow ones like NZ.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577171531838421366.html
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January 29, 2012 1:37pm
john.bt

Last August the MetService staff were so excited about predicting a snow fall a few days in advance that they jumped for joy. Their spokesman is quoted as saying “when you talk about the future, nobody really knows whats going to happen”. I assume these people are climate scientists.

Then there is NIWA who predicted a hot, dry summer. If they can’t tell us accurately what the climate change is going to be in a few months (or even a few days) why should we believe the AGW scam that is based on computer models using data that has been cherrypicked and “adjusted” ?

What really pisses me off is that the managers of my forestry investment still haven’t sold the carbon credits available and the market is collapsing as more and more people wake up to this massive con.
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January 29, 2012 1:56pm
Griff

1 We are all right jack in fact food will become more valuable great for our primary industries
2 If new Zealand stopped burning carbon tomorrow it would make little difference to the INCREASE in carbon admissions for the year
3Till the USA Canada Australia and the rest of the world do why cripple our selfs for no reason
and earlier
Scott we have a mild maritime climate
A mountainous land mass
and are surrounded by ocean
NZ is lucky
not so continental climates More extremes possible due to climate change
Would not invest into Bangladesh
except dike Building

fuck can you read

Yes reid we have all seen those names before
all major scientific bodies
not sixteen nut cases, lobbyists,Cristian undies and tired old oil industry execs.
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January 29, 2012 2:13pm
cha

The Bill Cosby “I’m 76 and Tired” email, fake.

http://billcosby.com/site/2011/09/if-you-got-the-bogus-email-its-time-to-hit-delete.html
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January 29, 2012 2:15pm
cha

The rebuttal Griff.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/two_incontrovertible_things_an.php?utm_source=combinedfeed&utm_medium=rss
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January 29, 2012 2:16pm
reid

Where are all the alarmists today? They were here before but they seem to have fled the scene.

Can’t they even defend their meme as its ripped to shreds before their eyes? Have they no response?

What about this question: that letter I posted above makes the observation that when the 10 year climate model predictions petered out as year after year yielded actual data which went completely against their predictions, the meme changed from excessive warming (as the model predicted) to claiming extreme weather events were arising due to AGW. The meme changed, didn’t it, a few years, about five years, ago. That’s what happened, didn’t it.

Now as everyone knows, this is precisely what you do in propaganda. You run a meme, the warming planet decade and monitor public acceptance and when you see its not working, you change the meme. This is how they run elections on a micro-scale and also how they run global propaganda campaigns like AGW, the war on drugs and the war on terror, just on a different timescale.

As I’ve often said the tell AGW is bollocks for me is not the science for I’m not equipped enough to analyse it and its not my interest to equip myself so to me the tell is that it looks, walks and talks like a well thought out in motion perception management a.k.a. propaganda campaign and its meme shifts like the one I just mentioned that give it away because science, real science, simply does not deal in meme shifts.

I rarely discuss AGW because it’s frightfully boring, isn’t it, to see the same old people making the same old points day after day time and again. I don’t know why anyone bothers. Does anyone on either side seriously think anyone on the other side is really going to change their views one iota as a result of anything you say? Does anyone seriously think that? I bloody hope not.

But it is a fascinating phenomena in action with all sorts of facets and potentials which continue to unfold. To me the biggest interest is in watching and observing how something so clearly architected not discovered, could be foisted upon the entire world for decades past and decades to come, in plain and clear and present sight and the whole world, still has no idea who or what is really behind it nor does it apparently, occur to anyone in the whole world barring a few hundred thou perhaps – even to ask themselves that question. It’s like a looming and growing massive tsunamai a million feet high controlled and created and directed by who knows who but someone is sure as hell doing it, and the whole world still has no idea it even exists like that. It’s great. Like a massive disaster movie for years to come.
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January 29, 2012 2:16pm
reid

Yes reid we have all seen those names before…all major scientific bodies…not sixteen nut cases, lobbyists,Cristian undies and tired old oil industry execs.

Claude Allegre, former director of the Institute for the Study of the Earth, University of Paris; J. Scott Armstrong, cofounder of the Journal of Forecasting and the International Journal of Forecasting; Jan Breslow, head of the Laboratory of Biochemical Genetics and Metabolism, Rockefeller University; Roger Cohen, fellow, American Physical Society; Edward David, member, National Academy of Engineering and National Academy of Sciences; William Happer, professor of physics, Princeton; Michael Kelly, professor of technology, University of Cambridge, U.K.; William Kininmonth, former head of climate research at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology; Richard Lindzen, professor of atmospheric sciences, MIT; James McGrath, professor of chemistry, Virginia Technical University; Rodney Nichols, former president and CEO of the New York Academy of Sciences; Burt Rutan, aerospace engineer, designer of Voyager and SpaceShipOne; Harrison H. Schmitt, Apollo 17 astronaut and former U.S. senator; Nir Shaviv, professor of astrophysics, Hebrew University, Jerusalem; Henk Tennekes, former director, Royal Dutch Meteorological Service; Antonio Zichichi, president of the World Federation of Scientists, Geneva.

No clearly not Griff, quite distinguished list isn’t it. Are you sure you still want to believe in AGW? I would have thought it’s becoming embarrassing to admit it. Or have I read you wrong and you’re really not insane after all?
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January 29, 2012 2:24pm
wat dabney

Griff,

Your “lawyers and lobbyists” comment might make some sense if this organisation was the one attempting to conceal its data and at the same time advocating eye-wateringly expensive legislation based on said data.

Why have global warming alarmists always fought so hard to avoid the supposed science becoming publicly available? Surely if the science were sound they would be falling over themselves to show people outside of their taxpayer-funded coterie?
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January 29, 2012 2:51pm
Griff

Do I really have to why dont you google them your self
I have told you who they are scott posted a few before
lobbyists, old oil company reps, sundry undies and a few nut cases

now i am getting tired of your links
boring

still

ALL MAJOR SCIENTIFIC BODIES BELIEVE THAT THE THEORY OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS VALID
and you believe you know more about science, you all must be real smart cookies
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January 29, 2012 3:05pm
reid

This is quite interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kisNNL5BtR8&feature=youtu.be
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January 29, 2012 3:05pm
wat dabney

“ALL MAJOR SCIENTIFIC BODIES BELIEVE THAT THE THEORY OF CLIMATE CHANGE IS VALID”

Of course climate change is real. That’s the whole point sceptics have been making for years.

But if you actually mean anthropogenic global warming, that is another thing altogether.

What exactly does that mean to say that a scientific body “believes” something?

Did they perform their own thorough investigation of the evidence? If so, where are these documented?

Or did they canvas their members and, on a simple majority, announce that the body as a whole “believed” something? (I don’t believe any reputable scientific group would ever do something so unscientific.)

Or is it just the case that a motivated minority in control of each group’s committees unilaterally made these announcements?
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January 29, 2012 3:12pm
RightNow

I’m still not sure on your position Griff.
You say you haven’t called that the sky is falling – my inference is that you don’t think there’s going to be catastrophic consequences from climate change.
But then you seem to be saying how stupid these ’16 concerned scientists’ are for saying “No Need to Panic About Global Warming”.
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January 29, 2012 3:35pm
reid

Good article on China:

There clearly was a pick up in early January but I stick to my view that China has inflated its credit bubble beyond the limits of safety – an increase of 100pc of GDP in five years, or twice US credit growth from 2002-2007 – and that Beijing cannot continue to gain much traction with this sort of artificial stimulus.

Indeed, the extra boost to GDP from each extra yuan of credit has collapsed, according to Fitch Ratings.

A final point. There is a widespread misunderstanding that China’s households can easily come to the rescue by cranking up spending because they have the world’s highest savings rate, and consumption is just 36pc of GDP.

Prof Michael Pettis from Beijing University puts that one to rest. The Chinese do not have a much higher personal savings rate than other East Asians. The reason why consumption is so low is that wages are low, the worker share of GDP is low, and the whole economy is massively deformed and tilted towards excess investment.

This is deeply structural. It cannot be changed with a flick of the fingers, and contains the seeds of its own destruction.
China is a marvellous country. I wish them the best. But they have not found the secret formula for perpetual uber-growth.

No such formula exists.

With China you currently also have a collapsing residential property market with many property developers have sell at a loss if they can even sell, in many cities, plus you have circa 2 trillion USD-value debts from her internal banks to her provincial govts for all the massive infrastructure projects.

A bit on how business really happens:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-billionaire-the-banker–and-a-bit-of-birchthrashing-6295370.html

If you want a really good read, in Wgtn and I’m sure Akld libraries there’s a book about the oligarchs in London, it’s not just lifestyle luckily but covers quite a bit about their background and business and politics. Just look up the catalogue with oligarch london keywords and you’ll get it.

Mysterious undersea objects:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/video-divers-large-unexplained-object-bottom-baltic-sea-161749619.html
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January 29, 2012 3:42pm
reid

I’m still not sure on your position Griff.

Griff’s clearly an alarmist RN. No doubt about it.

His issue seems to be he doesn’t understand how it works when real science is discovered, such as what happened with Relativity and the way that developed and became gradually a part of the world.

That, which was real, happened very slowly and in the lab and the crucial thing is, the scientists, all of them, every single one around the world, all did the same thing which was they became immediately extremely skeptical which is what their training tells them to do. Scientists when faced with a new theory are trained to disprove it, not to prove it.

Griff’s problem RN is that he obviously doesn’t know this so he has no reference point to understand what really happens when a real scientific theory like relativity is promulgated. It took twenty years before it even got out of the lab into the first commercial uses and then it was very gradual. But that hasn’t happened with AGW, has it.

Griff also RN clearly doesn’t understand the power of waving dollars to influence the research direction to people who dedicate their lives to doing something, anything, in their chosen field. Not to corrupt the experiments scientists would not tolerate that. But to influence what factors are researched and what factors aren’t, most scientists are comfortable with that when you do it widely enough and with AGW research this is the practice world-wide. Certain factors such as the sun’s influence are simply not funded proportionately to others such as the influence of GHG’s in particular CO2 and this is how its done. And Griff doesn’t understand this either, RN, apparently.

So I’m not really sure I myself shall continue discussion with Griff re: AGW. I just hope for his own sake that he’s dedicating himself to becoming a climatologist so he can understand if the science really is bullshit or not and I wish him well. I mean if he doesn’t do that then he’s really selling himself short isn’t he, given he’s relying on the “science.” Shame he doesn’t understand its the AGW politics that matter, and only those, since it’s only in the politics that any rubber at all ever hits the road. The science is quite irrelevant. Let’s hope Griff is bright enough to read between the lines of everything that’s been said by people like you and I on this issue RN. I doubt he is, but let’s hope so anyway.
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January 29, 2012 3:59pm
wat dabney

“Met Office releases new figures which show no warming in 15 years”

“The figures suggest that we could even be heading for a mini ice age to rival the 70-year temperature drop that saw frost fairs held on the Thames in the 17th Century.
Based on readings from more than 30,000 measuring stations, the data was issued last week without fanfare by the Met Office and the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit. It confirms that the rising trend in world temperatures ended in 1997.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2093264/Forget-global-warming–Cycle-25-need-worry-NASA-scientists-right-Thames-freezing-again.html
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January 29, 2012 4:47pm
Manolo

Labour lies refuted by the Police: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/1569920341-Labour-police-claims-refuted
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January 29, 2012 5:21pm
Manolo

Times are tough, aren’t they? http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6328649/Taxes-pay-ministry-staffs-Koru-Club-fees
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January 29, 2012 5:28pm
Manolo

Grumpy Hickey on Smile-and-wave’s addiction: borrowing money
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10781864
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January 29, 2012 5:31pm
reid

What do people think about this coverage of Whittall’s new business? Personally I think it’s disgraceful. The report hasn’t yet been issued yet apparently the MSM sees fit to destroy any possibility of the man getting any income whatsoever by it’s emotive, angled coverage of this issue today, Sunday, obviously timed and calculated.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10781985

You want an example of outrageous abuse of media power, this is it.

Look, whether or not Whittall is found guilty of whatever is way in the future and meanwhile he is entitled to proceed unmolested with his life under the extreme circumstances he has been under. Who of us would have wanted to have been him? None, right?

So the MSM sees nothing wrong at all with doing this, when just 12 months ago his conduct in the public was such as to be considered venerable.

The media, does not manage opinion, we do. That’s the message these arseholes should be sent via letters to editors, over this, IMO.

But again, the media manage the letters, don’t they.
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January 29, 2012 5:48pm
Johnboy

The best gamekeepers are usually ex poachers.
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January 29, 2012 5:55pm
reid

Grumpy Hickey on Smile-and-wave’s addiction: borrowing money

I wonder how much interest the international banks will earn as a result of all the myriad transactions which have and will occur as the ChCh rebuild proceeds. You’d have to think the NZ taxpayer is being hit with tens of billions in interest over say the next twenty years wouldn’t you and all simply to replace what was already there with a few minor improvements but not the hundred or so billion total cost which is what it may well be all said and done twenty years from now…

HAARP
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January 29, 2012 5:55pm
bereal

Fire Kohihia Kotel
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January 29, 2012 10:52pm
bereal

Fire Kokilia Patel as well.
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January 29, 2012 10:54pm
bereal

will kohikia patel wake up 2 morra ?
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January 29, 2012 11:05pm
bereal

Who cares ?
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January 29, 2012 11:15pm
bereal

who ?
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January 29, 2012 11:18pm

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