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January 25, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 January 2012

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Pete George

bereal, it sounds like you don’t know much about the US justice system and the plea bargain system. It’s claimed that more than 90% of people in prison have plea bargained, many feel they have no choice.

If you are interested in learning a bit about it read this (the movie is worth watching too): Movie Sheds Light on Plea Bargaining System

A review explains:

You may recall the story from the news in 2000. The cops in a small Texas town arrested 40 black people on drug charges in a sweep of a public housing complex. They were working on a tip from a single informant, a former mental patient who had good reason to cooperate with them. Dee, a young mother of four, who was not found with drugs and had no history of drug use, was arrested primarily because she went outside to drag her little girl to safety.

She, along with the others, is offered a plea bargain: If she pleads guilty, she gets probation.

This is all based on an actual case (the names have been changed). This stuff happens all the time, and is far from rare in Texas, a state with a shameful record of law enforcement practices.

The D.A., a man of whom it can fairly be said that he has no interest at all in whether the people he has arrested are guilty. How would it look in an election year if he went around dropping drug charges?
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January 25, 2012 8:13pm
F E Smith

bereal,

in law, the word we use to describe actually working is usually practise, not practice. They are interchangeable, though.

I do get it wrong from time to time, though.

And I am not helping PaulEB, as he is quite capable on his own. I am supporting him, however, because I think that you are wrong and out of order.
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January 25, 2012 8:18pm
bereal

Here is one for your grandchildren.

A man was walking up Queen St in Auckland and every now and then he reached into
a paper bag he ws carrying and sprinkled some white powder out onto the footpath.

A lady noticed this and approached him and asked,’ why are you sprinkling that white powder around ?’

He replied, ‘This white powder keeps the elephants out of Queen St.’

She said.’ But there ARE no elephants in Queen St.’

He said, “that just shows you how good this white powder is.”
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January 25, 2012 8:20pm
F E Smith

on that note, when a judge makes a decision we call it a ‘judgment’, not a ‘judgement’, unlike normal English.

And we often pronounce ‘counsel’ as ‘coun-sell’ rather than the more usual ‘coun-sil’.

And apparently our pronunciation of latin terms is just appalling.

Legal English is just different that way.
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January 25, 2012 8:23pm
bereal

Pete George

One last time.

Nobody has to take a plea bargain.

If you plead not guilty the state still has to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt.

Get it yet ?
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January 25, 2012 8:26pm
F E Smith

bereal,

you ignore the realities of criminal practise. It isn’t so clear cut, more an issue of probabilities. So sometimes you take a plea bargain not because you are guilty but because the risk of being found guilty, even though innocent, carries a far greater penalty.

Like I said, it is often a matter of probabilities.

And the US system is big on those probabilities. I don’t disapprove of plea bargaining, it is very useful, but in the US it often involves extremes that take it out of the realm of true bargaining.
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January 25, 2012 8:31pm
Nostalgia-NZ

I get it bereal.
I also get the other bit, that whether a person is guilty or not of a crime they may choose to take the plea bargain because the potential of being found guilty is too awful to bear, not withstanding they might be innocent. It’s a tidy expedient, a choice, a gamble and also probably a lack of faith in the American legal system to get it right. A plea bargain also might be a tool used by the police, a way to have one defendant blame another, or weasle out – but apart from that it’s probably all cheesy pie.
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January 25, 2012 8:37pm
bereal

Aw shit, i gotta go now, but, FE Smith, are you for real ?

Ask yourself, how many truly innocent people accept a plea bargain and go to jail rather than
defend themselves.

You are just not credible mate as anyone reading this can see.

Like i said, you should just quit.

You fail the common sense test.
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January 25, 2012 8:39pm
F E Smith

bereal,

I have seen it happen in NZ, although not with gaol time as a result (from memory). From what I am told by experts on the US system, it does in fact happen and often.

EDIT: nostalgia,

“because the potential of being found guilty is too awful to bear, not withstanding they might be innocent. It’s a tidy expedient, a choice, a gamble and also probably a lack of faith in the American legal system to get it right. ”

Exactly.
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January 25, 2012 8:43pm
Viking2

FES & PEB; Bereal is a fuckwit. with the brains of a turd.
Don’t feed the dumb bastard.
Like I’ve said last night and the night before bereal, piss off until you are old enough to talk to the adults.
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January 25, 2012 8:43pm
nasska

Whoever is the winner when the Dotcom fiasco is settled I’ll wager a fair bit that justice is in second place. There’s just too much money riding on the outcome. Our resident defendant has a bit of history & is not short of a few bob to put together an expensive legal team. The entertainment corporates by definition have no soul & will spend any amount to save the viability of their creaking industry. In turn the FBI will do what they are told by their political masters who will have to stand in front of the studio bosses carrying a begging bowl to fund their election campaigns.

That leaves the star of the circus, the judge, who owes his appointment to political patronage.

In this good ol’ USA grand auction for the desired verdict he only real question is who will place the highest bid.
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January 25, 2012 8:44pm
Viking2

Seen in Tauranga today.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/21152-jet-roar-ends-four-year-silence.html

http://screencast.com/t/3A7BrXJ2S
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January 25, 2012 8:47pm
Viking2

Well the yanks may win this battle but they have already lost the war. Artists are bailing from their contracts and setting up their own sites selling their own product.
And would they not. They no longer need the distribution to get their stuff out. A decent webmaster, web site facebook google circles, youtube et al and the jobs done a a minor cost compared to the companies.

With a little help could do that myself.
So the companies are stuffed.
Generation C just ain’t going to tolerate them.

Thanks Steve Jobs.

and a reminder of how.
Apple sold 33 million Iphones in the last quarter of last year. Extropoate that for a year and its 132 million. A lot of downloaders.
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January 25, 2012 8:53pm
nasska

Costa Concordia.

See the world from a different angle.
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January 25, 2012 9:03pm
bereal

Just beforebed
one question for a genius like Viking2
Of course he will not answer but, just in case.

How, when artists bail from their contracts and set up their own websites selling their own product do they
compete with sites that reproduce their art for free ?

How does the artist get paid ?

Go for it genius.

You have the floor.

A very simple question.
Surely a genius like you has some answer, any answer, try not to respond with a question.

Lets see your intellect at work.

How does the artist get paid ?
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January 25, 2012 9:35pm
Pauleastbay

bereal go over to No bail thread and there’s some artists themselves explaining how,
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January 25, 2012 9:37pm
Other_Andy

Viking 2

“Apple sold 33 million Iphones in the last quarter of last year.”

According to some sources:
Apple sold 64 million iPhones in 2011.
Sounds like a lot?
They are in 5th place.
Dwarfed by Nokia, in first place. They sold 435 Million phones in 2011.
Apple’s market share?
Only 4% of the 1.763 Billion (!!) phones sold in 2011
They obviously have a great PR department.
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January 25, 2012 9:39pm
bereal

Pauleastbay
Don’t talk shit.
You have been totally discredited already today. An ex cop who hates cops.
Backed up by a failed lawyer.

Lets see if Viking2 the cop hater can do better.

How does the artist get paid ?

If V2 can offer anything approaching a credible argument i will acknowledge it.
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January 25, 2012 9:50pm
reid

Is it possible the world gets a 3rd Bush?

Apparently it is.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/288986/draft-jeb-bush-artur-davis

The fact is that his party could be staring at an unavoidable disaster unless, in the interests of saving it, its best candidate comes out of retirement.

If another Bush is the “best candidate,” God save America and the rest of us as well, because Bush sure as hell won’t.
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January 25, 2012 9:58pm
nasska

reid

We frequently hear of the GOP’s selection process as being ‘robust’. The pantomime they go through for selection doesn’t produce the best or the most honest…..rather it favours the squeaky clean & the most proficient, if as yet, not caught out liars.

DPF has had a sidebar poll up for a couple of weeks. I usually add my two bobs worth to these polls but I couldn’t motivate myself to favour one of the no hopers over the rest.

Three hundred & fifty Americans to pick from & these are the best? The Yanks are stuffed.
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January 25, 2012 10:15pm
reid

Yes they are stuffed nasska. It’s a shame some people on this blog here have failed to recognise that even with all the overt evidence over the last decade or so but it was obvious even before that. Possibly they still believe that democracy still exists there when what it really is is predetermined outcomes sometimes up to a decade before the media over there even starts their pre-determined promotion of the “elect.”

Shame really. But never mind. At least they’re free from the worry those with eyes and ears have, these days.

For example: Branson states the bleeding obvious, but will the US media ever do the same? Of course not and they never ever will (too much money at stake folks, plus the necessary security apparatus).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9031855/Its-time-to-end-the-failed-war-on-drugs.html
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January 25, 2012 10:37pm
Nostalgia-NZ

bereal, you’ve been awfully polite tonight and I expect the children enjoyed the dialogue.

‘How does the artist get paid ?’

I don’t know, but I expect it’s per download by agreement between the storage supplier and the artist. It could be a lot trickier than that, and maybe even spaceships are involved.
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January 25, 2012 10:39pm
Griff

click on the fucking add bereal

It is the new way whole new world
no longer is it the tosser record company rep
who decides wots good
stick it on you you tube or face twit wot ever
its out there and can go viral supporting live shows and merchandising plus click though
no agent, no recording company, no distribution cost, no production cost, no adversing budget ,
all into the artists poket
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January 25, 2012 10:45pm
nasska

reid

Branson is of course right but there is too much power to be lost for the authorities to concede defeat. Worse, through trade threats & defense treaties they tie other nations to the same course of action.

Much like you, the more I watch American of politics the more I see a thread of events that seem preordained. The voting public go through the motions of democracy but it is window dressing to the machinations of corporate power.
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January 25, 2012 10:59pm
Pauleastbay

bereal

How does the artist get paid ?………………….

I don’t exactly know, but if we have an artist saying on-line that he will be able to get his mitts on 90% of every dollar he generates and appears happy with that, I will go with what he says.

Because you can’t or wont understand something doesn’t mean it’s not possible or likely.

On a personal note I think its been a very are occurrence for me to have communicated with anyone on any level with so little imagination , its quite sad. You drawn a couple of huge conclusions as well that are totally inaccurate but as was pointed out to you earlier you appear very naive and unworldly, hopefully this will change when you grow up a bit
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January 25, 2012 11:38pm
Manolo

Aussie madness: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/rush-wants-asylum-seeker-stories/story-e6frfku0-1226253806375

Mr Rush, 60, said there was a role for the arts to provide perspective on issues such as climate change and gay marriage.
But he also singled out immigration and the journeys of asylum seekers by boat to Australia.
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January 26, 2012 6:49am
KiwiGreg

@ Other Andy you really have to break out the handset market more than just numbers of units. Smartphones are a different market from simple handsets and Apple doesnt play in the budget end of the spectrum. I beleive their market share for high end smart phones is closer to 80%.
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January 26, 2012 7:26am

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