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January 23, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 January 2012

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Keeping Stock

Tell me about it Weihana 🙂
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January 23, 2012 3:44pm
Scott Chris

Pharmachick says:- “Re: fracking fluids …”

Thanks for that post. Good to hear an informed opinion on the fraught fracking issue.
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January 23, 2012 3:46pm
Weihana

I don’t quite get the idea of criticizing Hollywood and their terrible products whilst complaining about efforts to stop piracy of those supposed worthless products.

Whether or not you like Hollywood and their terrible movies, the fact is these movies generally costs tens or hundreds of millions to make. You may think a movie which cost $1000 is just as great because it is “art” but I respectfully differ and consider that large budgets enable extremely great movies to be made which I personally value. Money alone is not sufficient to make a great movie but it is often (not always) a pre-requisite.

These movies will not be made if the investment brings no return. Even actors who love movie making still expect to be paid. And this money must come from somewhere and that somewhere is the copyrights afforded to content creators.

My only criticism is that these rights are being extended too far beyond what is necessary to protect the industry.
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January 23, 2012 3:47pm
Pauleastbay

Weihana

Ok Scorcese is bankable but even he fucked up a Rolling Stones movie. But seriously studio movies are 80% crap.

yes they can make great great movies but the constant demand for stock means there is os much deterous out there that people stop going especially when its cost $100 for a family of four to go

Yea Keeping Stock us 51 year olds are just not connecting with you old mid 50’s buggers
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January 23, 2012 3:49pm
immigant

Allso Im typing from a smartphone so sorry again fro the terrible autospells and typos.
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January 23, 2012 3:49pm
bereal

What sort of a piece of work is Viking2 ?

First time i’ve seen someone pray to God that another correspondent that
they disagreed with gets sick. (Viking2 @ 12.43) and then crows about it.

i was one of several who called Viking2 out as a cop hater based on his posts yesterday.
i assume he also prayed that i got sick.
i will now pray for him, he’s so sick himself.
Viking2 has created a new low for Kiwiblog.

Would this show that Viking2 was a nasty piece of work, or what ?

Hates the police, calls other correspondents nasty names, prays to God they get sick.

What a prince.
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January 23, 2012 3:50pm
Manolo

Coulter on Gingrich: http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/22/coulter-with-newt-gingrich-you-throw-out-the-baby-and-keep-the-bath-water-video/
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January 23, 2012 3:56pm
immigant

Weihana

I see where you are coming from but reject everything you say about movies not being art and needing millions of dollars.

I fundamentaly disagree with Americacentric entertainment model that has been forced on the world.

It saddens me to see freedom crushed to “protect” entertainment. Maybe we need to crush entertainment so there is still freedom.

But that ofcourse is not profitable and not in the interests of any powerful lobby groups.
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January 23, 2012 3:57pm
Weihana

immigant,

I don’t think movies are not art, but my point is just that money can enable artists to do more. It’s like the difference between a pencil and a fancy paint set. Money enables movies to be truly awe-inspiring where entire worlds come to life that would otherwise be impossible to create on a more limited budget.

Hugo for instance cost $150 million to make. It would not be possible to make that film with a camcorder and a few friends, or at least not of the same quality.
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January 23, 2012 4:07pm
bereal

immigant
often you are right but in this case you are off the money.
How has the ,”Americacentric entertainment model ” been ‘forced’ on the world ?

Nobody forces you to watch American entertainment. Do they ?
You speak English ? Don’t like American ? Watch British, Australian, even New Zealand entertainment.
No one is ‘crushing ‘ your right to choose.

Explain yourself.
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January 23, 2012 4:12pm
immigant

bereal

You honestly don’t think American entertainment is not forced onto us?

Honestly?
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January 23, 2012 4:15pm
immigant

bereal

Ever heard of cultural imperialism?
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January 23, 2012 4:21pm
bereal

immigant
No i don’t.
Who ‘forces’ you to watch American entertainment if you don’t want to.
i choose what i watch for entertainment.

Why can’t you ?
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January 23, 2012 4:22pm
Weihana

Manolo,

I agree with Coulter’s analogy. But South Carolina voting for Gingrich is “going back to their Democratic roots”? As I heard it reported Gingrich won the Tea Party and evangelical voters.
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January 23, 2012 4:23pm
bereal

immigant
Now you really have lost it mate.

No. i have never heard of “cultural imperialism.”

But i am all ears if you would care to educate me.

WTF is it ?
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January 23, 2012 4:25pm
MT_Tinman

Keeping Stock (7,170) Says:
January 23rd, 2012 at 3:33 pm

……

I understand and to a degree sympathise with your views on the role of the corporates in the music and entertainment industries (I’m an amateur muso too), but people aren’t going to make a career in those industries if their intellectual property can’t be protected.

Actually yes, they are.

It’s called performing live.

The recorded noise industry (You can’t call most of the output “music” with a straight face.) has been a major rip-off since at least the days of the “45”, requiring you to buy, at an exorbitant price, unwanted noise just to hear what often (after you actually listened to it) was also unwanted noise.

I have no sympathy for record companies, little for performers who are unable to draw a crowd and rely on fooling the unwary by recording their noise.

Moving pictures do not concern me overly much, I seldom have the patience to watch them but given the ridiculous amount of money spent on making these things it appears you can fool most of the people all of the time.
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January 23, 2012 4:26pm
reid

Does anyone reading here know if it it possible to complain to the Broadcasting Authority and/or the Media Council (do they still exist) about inaccuracies in media reports that are designed to imply guilt?

Pharmachick when I read that clarification last night it seemed to me it was the police who had [inaccurately] implied the gun was close to hand, instead of being in a safe, and the media being the idiot media, clearly never thought to clarify but simply [as they always do] regurgitated the propaganda line.

So while it’s partly the media’s fault, it’s not only their fault.
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January 23, 2012 4:29pm
immigant

bereal – I’m sorry I went a bit over your head there buddy.

Okay here is a wikipedia article that explains what Cultural Imperialism is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_imperialism

And here is a link to a Noam Choamski book in which he talks about the application of cultural imperialsim in American foreign policy.

http://contemporarylit.about.com/cs/currentreviews/fr/hegemony.htm

I know You must be behind in teh dust by bnow, but do try to catch up.
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January 23, 2012 4:29pm
Pharmachick

Immigrant,
there’s a world of difference between descrying the miserable tactics of Hollywood’s big businesses and, in the context of NZ; wasting oxygen by implying or stating it is all a (several hundreds of years old) extension of imperialism.

NZ is a COMMONWEALTH state mate, not part of the UK and no longer a colony.

Sorry kiddo you are often correct and, up until now; I’d been supporting ya. But you’ve lost me there… to the point of wondering if you’d like/need a new tinfoil hat.
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January 23, 2012 4:34pm
immigant

Pharmachick

How did the UK come into this? You’re out of your depth.
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January 23, 2012 4:38pm
bereal

immigant
Now now mate, don’t start getting nasty.

You mentioned “cultural imperialism” i asked you what it was.

If you can’t explain it thats fine, just admit it, don’t refer me to some anarchist on Wikipedia.

If you have no mind of your own and are unable to decide for yourself what type of entertainment
you prefer to watch, thats a matter for you.

i, on the other hand am capable of choosing.

You should try it.
Your not a lemming, or are you ?
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January 23, 2012 4:42pm
slijmbal

@ Fletch and Pharmachick

@Fletch – I see you mentioned acid rain – one of the 80s myths of environmental destruction, strangely silent now. Apparently it may have had a mildy fertilising function for forests.

@Pharmachick I believe you are wrong. Oil and gas are found surrounded by ground that is highly impermeable. It’s the way they are trapped. The oil and gas are in a relatively highly permeable area and are prevented from dispertion by, typically, an umbrella of impermeable ground. They tend to disperse upwards. If the soil is not impermeable the oil or gas will already be leaching in to local water areas and crude oil is nasty in the water supply and would already be known, gas less so. There is a reason that big chunks of our water pumped from underground doesn’t already have oil in it. It does not take a lot of dispersion over geological timescales for the oil or gas to disappear so high impermeability is a necessity for trapping of productive volumes for drilling for petrochemicals.

There is a possibility that the fractures caused by the fracking process might enable a channel to a water containing location but once again the fractures occur at the weak and pressure points near the ‘peak’ of the ‘umbrella’ you are attempting to fracture to either speed or enable migration to a more accessible location. It is highly predictable.

The additives are a bit of a red herring as just getting crude oil in to the water supply is nasty enough.
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January 23, 2012 4:51pm
Spam

@Spam, I know that fracking is done kilometers under the water table. They have an informational chart at my link that shows the process. This does not mean that the water table is not affected. “Courts and other Government agencies across several [U.S] states have documented over 1000 cases of water contamination near areas of oil and gas drilling”.

In the FAQ, it says –

How deep do natural gas wells go?

The average well is up to 8,000 feet deep. The depth of drinking water aquifers is about 1,000 feet. The problems typically stem from poor cement well casings that leak natural gas as well as fracking fluid into water wells.

A poor cement job has very little to do with fracking, though. If the cement job is poor, then it can allow gas / oil to migrate up behind the completion tubing – that is true. However fracking doesn’t affect this at all.
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January 23, 2012 5:01pm
Scott Chris

Weihana says:- “As I heard it reported Gingrich won the Tea Party and evangelical voters.”

That makes no sense to me. Personally I think Gingrich won in SC because he is a very canny politician and a very clever man.

And he’s pissed all over the other candidates except Ron Paul in the debates. Okay he’s an asshole, but I can’t help but grudgingly admire him a tiny tiny bit.

As for Coulter. Who the hell would ever listen to what that wacko banshee has to say? The Tea Partiers and evangelicals perhaps?
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January 23, 2012 5:01pm
immigant

bereal

Cultural imperialism is when you dominate all media outlets in order to maintain cultural hegemony over everyone else. Basically by self promotion. This is useful to the ruling classes by promotion homogeneity over their subjects by giving everyone similar things to discuss and worry about. Persians did it with their empire, Romans did it. America has been doing it for years.

The internet is just the latest battlefield. If it can be subverted to the whims of the gianst of American media, who are all in bed with various political factions, it would not only consolidate America’s grip on the minds of their home constituents but would also give them greater control in projecting their world view and consequently value on the rest of the world.

I could go on for hours but I can’t retell you teh whole course of University politics and 1st year media studies.
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January 23, 2012 5:10pm
DJP6-25

Spam 12:11 pm. Thanks for supplying the truth.

cheers

David Prosser
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January 23, 2012 5:10pm
immigant

1st year Politics and 1st year Media studies.
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January 23, 2012 5:11pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Pharmachick 3.41

I thought the ‘news’ about the shotgun was deliberate, an opportunity to set out an explanation for an over the top raid against geeks. On Sunday Davidson said the police contacts were out of context on the subject, now we hear it is of a type unknown in NZ and was locked in a safe. A 55 year old is out on police bail for possession of a firearm. That report also helps the picture the police have tried to paint, a sceptic wonders how often it is that a person charged with possession of firearm (must be unlawful) is allowed police bail. This guy was apparently the security man and a sceptic may also consider the police need him to ‘form’ part of the case so he’s been given bail.
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January 23, 2012 5:12pm
Pharmachick

Slijmbal,
you are correct about impermeability in terms of the natural environment and the oil itself.

However … for fracking, and specifically for the case in hand i.e.: inject a slurry of chemicals and use this in tandem with mechanical disruption, then this will lift the oil to the surface. The following applies:

A good way to think about this is to ask ones self the following: If this is sensible (that all is impermeable) … why is the oil not spontaneously rising/moving to the surface? Because the “holding tank” is impermeable. Okay, how do we get it to rise out of the “holding tank” …

The logical answer is that “it rises when we inject it with the fracking mixture”. So the fracking mixture permeabilizes the holding tank.

if the oil only moves when the fracking mixture is injected
AND
without the fracking mixture the oil is contained
THEN
when the fracking mixture is applied both the oil and the fracking mixture move (since they move together)
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January 23, 2012 5:13pm
Put it away

Pharmachick – where in that article does it say the safe was locked? Or are you being “sloppy” to create a biassed impression?
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January 23, 2012 5:21pm
Put it away

Jesus immigant, what a load of leftist horseshit you swallowed in media studies. Is it too late to get a refund? You got ripped off.
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January 23, 2012 5:28pm
immigant

Why is it leftist horse shit? If I was a political power I would seek to control and dominate global media outlets and all media channels. Regardless of being left or right. If you are not doing it, someoene else will be. We all know how powerful media is.
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January 23, 2012 5:32pm
immigant

Next thing you will say that major governments don’t participate in cyber warfare. Don’t be a clown, tell me where I’m wrong.
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January 23, 2012 5:34pm
immigant

If you don’t think that the war on piracy is not an extension of American foreign policy, just say so. With links and examples.
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January 23, 2012 5:37pm
wat dabney

immigrant,

So basically we’re all too stupid to choose for ourselves what we watch and listen to.

“The internet is just the latest battlefield. If it can be subverted to the whims of the gianst of American media, who are all in bed with various political factions”

Unlike traditional media there is no limit on the number of channels available on the Internet. It cannot be “subverted” since there is nobody to stop you making as much of your own content as you wish.

Me, I’ll be watching Die Hard.
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January 23, 2012 5:39pm
Pharmachick

Put It Away…
I just went back to my link … line 49 (including blank lines) states “in a safe”. I thought it said earlier “in a locked safe”. Have not looked up the cache because I am probably wrong.

This being said: “in a safe” is very different (in the minds of the general public than “to hand”

BTW, still LOLing, and must compliment you again (despite that we’re disagreeing here) about your comment earlier … Conan indeed 🙂
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January 23, 2012 5:43pm
Put it away

Well you seem to have completely missed that the whole thing is driven by ratings. If people preferred documentaries about disabled guatemalan lesbians forming anarchist communes, it would be on prime time, but they don’t. The american content is on tv here simply because it gets watched.
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January 23, 2012 5:44pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Looks like the safe wasn’t unlocked, but some confusion about who was in control of the firearm pointed out by the Crown saying that neither dotcom or the ‘security’ guard had a licence for it and additionally claiming that it would be unlikely to be able to licensed in nz. Argument against bail, flight risk, dangerous, might start up megaupload again whilst on bail. Hard to swallow those reasons, also relying on the firearm being of consequence stretches it if they’re not even sure who owned it – and taking into account there’s no suggestion that dotcom is violent. Putting that aside, what’s the count? Somewhere around 150 million siezed here and Hong Kong but no arrests there.
Isn’t this about old technology trying to protect itself against innovation? Kodak has problems, the movie and music industry as well, if they have a product they can’t control once its out of their position does the world need to be changed to take account of that. I remember the sports brand taking users of its name to court and pointing out how the pirates were using sweat shops (but not the same ones as the brand owners to make theirs.)
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January 23, 2012 5:44pm
immigant

wat dabney

Thats kind my whole point. There is no one stooping you now. But look where things are headed. Main media outlet on the internet are being attacked. Megaupload, something close to 4% of the whole internet. Youtube, just recently. It is all heading in a bad direction. All efforts to control and police the internet are coming from the same source.

I’m not making this shit up. These are all well documented facts. The fact that an ISP now has to give up your personal details simply upon accusation of piracy by a corporate.

You don’t see anything wrong with that?
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January 23, 2012 5:47pm
immigant

I’m not saying that people are too stupid to choose, well some are.

But if your range of choice is significantly narrowed by those who control the main outlets, the many more will give up and listen and watch shit.

Just Beiber and is probably not the No1 choice for many, yet here we are. The Biggest Looser is not a show drenched in intellectual content but it exists. Shitty reality TV that everyone moans about…

I don’t think I need to go on about force-fed prescriptive entertainment that all flows funnily enough from the same source.
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January 23, 2012 5:49pm
wat dabney

Immigrant,

Megaupload was shut down because it was widely used for piracy. It wasn’t shut down because it was competing with American studios. i.e. it was nothing to do with so-called “cultural imperialism.”
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January 23, 2012 5:56pm
Pauleastbay

Megaupload was shut down because it was widely used for piracy

But not exclusively, presuming of course that it was.

gang members store money earned from illegal activity in NZ banks, do we shut down the bank because of a percetage of its business? Extreme again but…………….
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January 23, 2012 6:01pm
immigant

wat dabney

That is the main reason yes, but in my view it is a step in consolidating American control of the internet. Set a precedent and roll from there.
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January 23, 2012 6:02pm
immigant

Americans demonstrated today, very effectively that if you if you do something on the internet that is Against their interests, they will find you no matter where you are and cook up a situation where you will be trailed in teh us. Everyone forgot about wikileaks too I see.
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January 23, 2012 6:07pm
bereal

Oh dear immigant
“Cultural imperialism is when you dominate all media outllets to maintain cultural
hegemonyover everyone else basicaly by self promotion.”

And just how do you do this in a free democracy ? How ?

You should have questioned your lecturer in your year 1 Media Studies classes
instead of being totally brainwashed as apparently you were.

How do you dominate all media outlets in a free society ?
You should sue your lecturer for fucking you up so bad.

For a joke try watching Fox news, channel 092 Sky. With an open mind.

Once again, when you come out with puke like, ‘ruling classes. and ‘ Subverted to the whims of American media.’
Who, in your mind are the ‘ruling classes’ ?

Do you agree that virtually all media in democracies, particularly the USA are biassed in favour of the left ?
Why is that do you think ?

The internet and blogsites are the last bastion of free speech and our one hope for the future.

Go back to your communist media studies lecturer and kick their arse for corrupting young minds such as yours.

You are smart enough that you will get it one day soon.

one tip. everything you have sucked up so far is wrong.

Try thinking for yourself.
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January 23, 2012 6:07pm
wat dabney

Immigrant,

Two things make for a good movie: a high body-count and women in bikinis with machine guns and big tits.

Now, you might quibble with that, but it is nonetheless a fact.

If you wish to watch other, lesser entertainment then you now have the Internet offering infinite choice and much less in the way of state censorship. So how can you possibly argue that the “range of choice is significantly narrowed by those who control the main outlets”?

We are happily living in the days of the “long tail”: Amazon has infinite shelf-space; Grooveshark.com has infinite songs playable at the click of a button.

You seem to believe we’re still living in the 1950’s.
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January 23, 2012 6:08pm
Put it away

immigant there’s three buttons on your remote you obviously haven’t discovered yet – Channel up, Channel down, and OFF. Nothing is force fed. If you don’t like it, watch something else. Your problem here is that, as a leftist, you can’t ever admit that the problem is “the masses”, the bulk of which have limited intelligence and are easily entertained by shit tv. So rather than admit that the problem is actually caused “the people” who you claim to be representing, you have to invent shadowy dark forces with ulterior motives. There are no ulterior motives, the motives are clear: make money by putting on shows that large numbers of people want to watch. You cannot criticise the content of TV without criticising the “proles” who make up the audience.
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January 23, 2012 6:09pm
wat dabney

“gang members store money earned from illegal activity in NZ banks, do we shut down the bank because of a percentage of its business? ”

Banks are state-licensed, highly regulated and accountable domestic organisations. Their books are effectively completely open to the state.
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January 23, 2012 6:16pm
slijmbal

@Pharmachick – your analogy is once again flawed I believe

One is not releasing the petrochemicals ‘in general’ alongside the injected fluid and enabling them to escape to the surface as this prevents capturing them via a drilling process. Drilling extracts from a point of collation. One is enabling them to migrate from one umbrella to another to remove the need for further drilling and/or to increase extraction via increased pressure or increasing the size of existing fractures to speed migration. If and only if the process gets completely out of hand would the material get to the surface in any volumes and this does not happen (I am sure there are some exceptions). If there were mechanisms to get petrochemicals to the surface the oil companies would have used them years ago as it makes extraction massively cheaper. There is a significantly greater chance of issues with pollution via the drilling process or poor collection or poor transport.

Fracking can be quite a complex process as the fracturing element is only one portion of the various processes used to improve yield but that is the element that is focussed on as it sounds like we are ‘breaking’ something when in practise we are using a mixture of pumping, scouring, viscosity affecting and fracturing mechanisms from memory. In the very early days the simplest approach was to pump water in to the natural reservoir to keep the pressure up and ‘push’ more oil out of the well. This leads me to the suspicion that this is one of those typical anti-science doomsday scenarios so liked by the media and some elements of the left.

FYI – my personal experience of this is 25 years out of date but I did spend a couple of years in the 80s working at Shell’s exploration and production labs in the Hague on modelling and software and we used to go through the physical mechanisms involved in some detail as if they don’t work well then the very expensive process is not worth the effort. I used to write the software but also had a Physics degree.

Interestingly we used to contemplate whether there is an increased chance of earthquakes caused by the pressure changes caused by removal of large volumes of oil and the received wisdom was that pumping something back down there to replace the loss probably reduced those chances. Never seen any concerns around earthquakes and removal of oil in large quantities.
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January 23, 2012 6:17pm
plebe

Its a bit ironic watching the Auckland protests on the news. Police watching obese private security people on minumin wages moving in on minumin paid or unemployed people. The poor assulting the poor for the rich.
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January 23, 2012 6:20pm
wat dabney

“The poor assulting the poor for the rich.”

How does that work, then?

Those unwashed, self-indulgent pricks in the park don’t stand for anything I do. They should have been all run-over and squashed witha steamroller.
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January 23, 2012 6:22pm
Pauleastbay

Banks are state-licensed, highly regulated and accountable domestic organisations. Their books are effectively completely open to the state.

Correct Wat, but they’ll have illegal money there, they just won’t know ,they’d say I didn’t know I was effectively laundering money for a gang, how could we be expected to know who has done what – sound familiar?

Christ ,look at Bonus Bonds, how many millions just disappear in there?

Like I said extreme but…
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January 23, 2012 6:23pm
Nookin

Plebe
Reserves are there for everyone regardless of bank balances. The police and security guards are simply making sure that some people are not excluded because a selfish few want exclusivity.
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January 23, 2012 6:26pm
bereal

one last thing immigant.
We respect the rule of law.
The law is written down for all to see. It is what it is.
If megaupload have not broken the law they will be found to be not guilty.
And conversly…………..

Your feelings and hopes, and those of your communist media studies lecturer do not matter a fuck all.

The federal govt of the USA believe they have cheated, a grand jury agrees there is a case to answer.

Lets wait and see who is right. You and your media studies lecturer or ………..we the people.
i for one will accept their decision.
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January 23, 2012 6:29pm
Pauleastbay

Bereal

The only problem I have with your comment is the mans a New Zealand resident, now his suitability for such is not the point, we have a foreign Govt. saying we want one of your citizens, give him up. I’m worried about that just a tad

And a Grand Jury is well seriously…………..
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January 23, 2012 6:35pm
Pharmachick

Slijmbal,
I accept your comments … and if I didn’t think that fracking has a place in current/future industry, then I likely wouldn’t have made my last paragraph @ 1:32 pm a statement.

This being said, migrating from “one umbrella to another” is analogous to moving outside of the “containment zone” … ergo leaching.

I am NOT a Petrochemical Engineer, nor a Petrochemist. Those are, in fact; a ways away from my primary job.

That is my fair disclaimer.

This being said, I’m not a dullard when it comes to Chem or even EnviroChem and I have “in-house” advisory as well.

Describing fracking as a “complex process” 1) does not scare me and 2) shouldn’t be used in a formal argument, there are literally millions of complex processes in the world. You also mentioned “scouring” and “viscosity”… both processes that are likely to disrupt the natural geological balance.

Look, we don’t have to argue or bitch at each other. But some sensible conversation about checks and balances would certainly head us all in the right direction.
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January 23, 2012 6:37pm
Nostalgia-NZ

The only problem I have with your comment is the mans a New Zealand resident, now his suitability for such is not the point, we have a foreign Govt. saying we want one of your citizens, give him up. I’m worried about that just a tad

Exactly.
I’d not only want to have the substance of the charges considered, but also if they are consistent with our bill of rights. I’m not grateful that the usa didn’t just kidnap him, but alarmed that at the first instance Kit Dotcom’s rights as a nz resident, from whom we’ve fleeced a lot of money, are not a priority.
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January 23, 2012 6:43pm
Viking2

immigant (694) Says:
January 23rd, 2012 at 1:29 pm

Do any of the pre-internet generation geriatric dinosaurs that are commenting that Dotcom is pirate, even understand how Megaupload.com works?
You guys realise it is just a data locker and the website in no way is responsible for what individuals store on the site.

This whole case is a farce. It is like prosecuting a bank for customers storing stolen gold in a bank strongbox

I’m older than most of you be more than a few years and I understand what’s happening here.
I am pleased others are waking up as yesterday the only support I had was PEB and that’s something as we don’t always see these things eye to eye.
This is as bad as it gets and the various analogies to banks, taxis etc are right on the money.

The US bagmen are intent on control of the internet. Think news services, newspapers and now music and films. All run through old world distribution chanells which the companies have a vested interest in maintaining whist the attempt to strangle the new generation.

But think even more about this. Its a last gasp stand at control. I saw today on a newsletter from a digital news paper I read
the list of organisations supporting and opposing the new bills that have been halted in the USA and why stopping it was
acheived. Unfortunatley I dont have the info here but I will post it tomorrow. The Internet use and numbers staggered even Google.

Those who doubt shoulld read Richard Bransons book “Buisness Stripped Bare”. Its insightful as to the future and why this bully tatics will end in tears. Indeed one has only to look and see how quickly and how widespread the revolutions have taken hold in the Arab states. Unthinkable 5 years ago.
China is absolutley frieghtened that their population will do the same. India is about to break up its biggest state because the government of that state cannot satisfactorily meet the needs of its diverse and far spread populatoin of 200 million.

There are millions of people in the world jobless with huge student loans and millions more young people who are staring at a life withoput meaningful work. Greater numbers than ever before.

Here’s the thing.
If the yanks and the FBI win this and are able to shut down anything anytime (as China did with lots of its sites) then they control the information and news services.

Far fetched. Well go look up the worlds history including the Nazi’s and communists, indeed look at how our own government and its litlle helpers manage the news now. This case being a good example as you can see above re guns.
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January 23, 2012 6:47pm
Viking2

wat dabney (1,133) Says:
January 23rd, 2012 at 6:16 pm

“gang members store money earned from illegal activity in NZ banks, do we shut down the bank because of a percentage of its business? ”

Banks are state-licensed, highly regulated and accountable domestic organisations. Their books are effectively completely open to the state.

wat, you forgot to add the bit about how thery missapproriated billions of dollars and were bailed out by the likes of dotcom and the rest of the worlds taxpayers. Banks aint no saints.
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January 23, 2012 6:51pm
bereal

Hey Pauleastbay and Nostalgia.

We have extradition agreements between countries in order that criminals cannot come to
New Zealand as a safe haven from justice.
Would you have it any other way ?

Why ? His ‘rights’ in both countries will be respected. ( do you dissagree ?)
If this person is extradited to the USA it will be as a result of our law and the law of USA

Whats your problem ?
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January 23, 2012 6:56pm
Viking2

bereal (1,195) Says:
January 23rd, 2012 at 3:50 pm

What sort of a piece of work is Viking2 ?

First time i’ve seen someone pray to God that another correspondent that
they disagreed with gets sick. (Viking2 @ 12.43) and then crows about it.

i was one of several who called Viking2 out as a cop hater based on his posts yesterday.
i assume he also prayed that i got sick.
i will now pray for him, he’s so sick himself.
Viking2 has created a new low for Kiwiblog.

Would this show that Viking2 was a nasty piece of work, or what ?

Hates the police, calls other correspondents nasty names, prays to God they get sick.

What a prince.

What a sad bastard you are bereal. Go back to Redblurt where you can crawl around with the filth.

and for your info.
Police admit shooting could have caused explosion
11:31 AM Monday Jan 23, 2012

Guidelines issued by Taser International explicitly warn not to use Tasers when flammable substances are present because of a risk of explosion. Photo / Thinkstock
Expand
Guidelines issued by Taser International explicitly warn not to use Tasers when flammable substances are present because of a risk of explosion. Photo / Thinkstock

Police have admitted there was a serious risk of explosion when a man wielding an LPG cylinder leaking flammable gas was pepper-sprayed, Tasered and shot by police.

The drunk man allegedly advanced on police wielding the gas cylinder and a spade before being pepper-sprayed, Tasered and shot in the leg during a domestic violence call-out in Manurewa on Saturday.

He remains in a stable condition in Middlemore Hospital today.

“Absolutely there was a risk,” said Upper North Districts Detective Superintendent Andy Lovelock, who is overseeing the police investigation into the shooting.

“It could have seriously injured police staff or the person who was ultimately shot.”

Guidelines issued by Taser International explicitly warn not to use Tasers when flammable substances are present because of a risk of explosion.
LPG and pepper spray are both flammable.

In British tests, two of seven mannequins that had been sprayed with pepper spray caught fire when Tasered.

“In both cases, the flames produced were severe and engulfed the entire top half of the mannequin,” said the report, Less Lethal Technologies – Initial Prioritisation and Evaluation.

But you can bet your life that the PCA will exonerate all involved as usual.

Now fuck off to your shit pit.
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January 23, 2012 6:57pm
Viking2

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10780567

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/file-sharing/news/article.cfm?c_id=199&objectid=10748781

Past attempts by the copyright organisation Stichting Brein had either failed or proved ineffective: Dutch courts have repeatedly found that downloading copyrighted files is not illegal.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/file-sharing/news/article.cfm?c_id=199&objectid=10778243

Uploading them is illegal, since it is considered publishing without permission – but it can be difficult to prove a person has uploaded a file without using spying techniques that are themselves illegal.
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January 23, 2012 7:01pm
bereal

Hey Viking2

check out my effort regarding you @ 3.50 today

Who will you be praying for to get sick tonight ?
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January 23, 2012 7:02pm
bereal

Gotta go now but i will pray for you tonight Viking2

So consumed with hate, so nasty, but there is hope, even for you.

God bless.

G’nite.
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January 23, 2012 7:10pm
Viking2

Another disaster in the making.

A dog attack in Taranaki was one of three around the country yesterday and the Government has promised to kick-start a stalled pledge to investigate laws governing dangerous dogs.

Dog rangers seized two pitbull-type dogs from a Waitara address yesterday after a young girl was bitten.

The Nutter from Nelson is in Charge.
Govt to look at dog control laws

Monday, 23, Jan, 2012 4:51PM

The new Local Government Minister is promising to look at dog control laws.

It follows three separate attacks in the past week on children in Ashburton, Rotorua and Porirua.

Dr Nick Smith says the reality is no law, nor any council dog control officer, is going to be able to prevent every attack.

“I’m happy to have a fresh look at those laws and see whether there are any ways in which we can improve on them and better protect, particularly children in public places, from these sorts of attacks.”

Dr Smith says it’s too early to say if the current laws go far enough.

Of course they could have put this right when Rodney wanted them to but they couldn’t bring themselves to face up to it.
The money is on Smith to get it wrong as usual.
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January 23, 2012 7:11pm
Viking2

That’s Ok bereal. I managed a lot of years without your prayers so don’t really want them now. They would be all bitter and twisted and full of vile stuff anyway.
Most of you lefty religious people are that way inclined anyway.
Like I’ve said before go away and come back when you grow up and are wise enough to talk with the adults.
Kids should be seen and not heard.
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January 23, 2012 7:14pm
Viking2

Wonder what the new Commisioner will have to say about this bit of foolishness.

Inquiry into duplicate police ID badges

Monday, 23, Jan, 2012 6:12PM

Three police officers will be investigated after wearing matching identification numbers at Auckland’s Aotea Square today.

Police were there to support Council’s operation in dismantling the tent’s pitched in Aotea Square.

Police policy is for each officer to wear their own identification number.

A spokesperson says an employment investigation has begun as a result of this breach.

http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=826111
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January 23, 2012 7:18pm
Viking2

Hahahaha

By Roger J Kerr

New Zealand may well be seen as a small place at the bottom end of the world where one could hide easily and hide ones cash easily.

So thought Kim Dotcom and his Megaupload mates who were arrested on Friday by the FBI and NZ Police.

They apparently had part of their cash holdings invested in NZ Government Bonds through an unnamed financial institution.

Whatever the merits of their copyright legal case, they must have known something about investment – or where just lucky.

Holding NZ Government Bonds, unhedged to NZD currency fluctuations, has been one stellar winning investment strategy over the past 12 months.

The yield on our 10-year Government Bonds has reduced from 5.50% to 3.85% and the Kiwi has appreciated against all currencies.

Plenty of capital gain on a marked-to-market revaluation basis received in that respect. Will the NZ Police sell the impounded bonds along with the marquee cars to realise the impressive gains?
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January 23, 2012 7:24pm
Nostalgia-NZ

bereal 6.56

It’s the validity of the ‘law’ they’re using that’s my problem.
Additionally I note that the indictment features ‘activities’ many years before dotcom was accepted as a resident here, going back to the mid 2000s but I accept that maybe FBI were asleep at the time or having a big party.
As a NZ resident, with a family and lawyers here, I’m confident that he could have been addressed at the outset through his legal counsel – but instead we got rambo 5 (or whatever the count may now be.)
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January 23, 2012 7:25pm
Viking2

Interest on Twitter
Follow @Interest’s tweets on Twitter
Megaupload founder used Kiwibank and BNZ accounts, documents alleging massive copyright infringement and money laundering show
Posted in News January 23, 2012 – 12:27pm, Bernard Hickey
Kim Dotcom posing in front of his NZ registered Mercedes with the number plate “guilty.”

Kim Dotcom, the New Zealand resident accused of copyright infringements worth US$500 million and money laundering worth up to US$175 million, had bank accounts with Kiwibank and the Bank of New Zealand.

A 72-page indictment from a Grand Jury in the US District Court of Virginia was issued over the weekend showing Dotcom’s financial affairs. The indictment was published after Dotcom and six of his colleagues from his Megaupload company were arrested in raids on the Dotcom mansion property they occupied near Coatesville north of Auckland.

The indictment showed US$50 million had been seized from bank accounts around the world, including “Kiwibank, Account No. XX-XXXX-XXXX922-00, in the name of
Megastuff Limited Nominee Account No. 1 and Bank of New Zealand, Account No. XX-XXXX-XXXX200-04, in the name of Cleaver Richards Trust Account for Megastuff Limited.”

The indictment alleges Dotcom used New Zealand and bank accounts in New Zealand to launder money obtained from selling subscriptions to and advertising on a range of Megaupload sites that allowed users and subscribers to upload copyrighted material such as movies and music and then share it with with other users and subscribers.

“On or about March 15, 2010, a member of the Mega Conspiracy created Megastuff Limited, a New Zealand company, that has facilitated the transfer to New Zealand of
millions of dollars in illicit proceeds and assets for the personal financial gain of DOTCOM and other conspirators, as well as to facilitate additional operations of the Mega Conspiracy,” the indictment said.

The indictment also showed Dotcom had bought New Zealand government bonds and held them through Computershare.

Stuff reported that Dotcom obtained New Zealand residency in 2010 after buying NZ$10 million worth of government bonds. Immigration NZ said Dotcom had disclosed his previous convictions and jail sentences in Germany for insider trading when applying for residency, but it had used clauses in the Immigration Act allowing it to exercise discretion in allowing residency.

This article was first published in our email for paid subscribers this morning. See here for more details and to subscribe.

sounds to me like just the kind of NZ resident we need. Great for our balance of payments. And lets face it he will pay a $ or two in tax. Wonder if the Police asked Bill before they cut off his money supply. :0
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January 23, 2012 7:29pm
nasska

A fellow stopped at a rural gas station and, after filling his tank, he bought a soft drink. He stood by his car to drink his cola and he watched a couple of men working along the roadside.

One man would dig a hole two or three feet deep and then move on. The other man came along behind and filled in the hole. While one was digging a new hole, the other was about 25 feet behind filling in the old.

“Hold it, hold it,” the fellow said to the men. “Can you tell me what’s going on here with this digging?”

“Well, we work for the local Council,” one of the men said.

“But one of you is digging a hole and the other is filling it up. You’re not accomplishing anything. Aren’t you wasting the county’s money?”

“You don’t understand, mister,” one of the men said, leaning on his shovel and wiping his brow. “Normally there’s three of us, me, Joe and Mike. I dig the hole, Joe sticks in the tree and Mike here puts the dirt back.”

“Yea,” piped up Mike. “Now just because Joe is sick, that doesn’t mean we can’t work, does it?”
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January 23, 2012 8:00pm
Tauhei Notts

Viking
That 72 page indictment was actually more than 75 pages.
It refers to the Simpson Grierson Trust Account being seized.
As I posted last Saturday, I would be very nervous if I was involved in a conveyancing transaction where Simpson Grierson were on the other side.
No mention in any of the print media about Simpson Grierson though. I wonder how much it has cost them to have the print media to get that part overlooked.
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January 23, 2012 8:06pm
Pauleastbay

Tauhei

I hope they fight this extradition line by line page by page. Lots of interesting stuff, all those monies seized but not all will be tainted as alleged , its going to be great. And if they did get extradited it will be years before there is a resolution to the charges.
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January 23, 2012 8:26pm
Scott Chris

Updated repost:

The atheist nasska decides to send his son to St Peters Catholic school, because he thinks the education will be so much better than that of the rather shoddy Palmerston Boys High School. He instructs his son to just ignore the religious studies.

Then one day, the boy comes home and tells nasska about the Holy Trinity. “God is in three parts!” he says. “There’s a father, a son, and a holy spirit! What do you think of that Dad?”

Furious, the atheist nasska admonishes, “I’ll tell you what I think! There’s only ONE God, and we DON’T believe in him! GOT THAT?!!”
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January 23, 2012 8:34pm
nasska

Scott Chris

I like.

###########

“Dad, Ben at school says he can fly!”

“I don’t think so, son.”

“It’s true! Lots of the other kids said so too!”

“Son, sometimes people invent things to get themselves noticed. It’s not nice to make up stories like that because people end up believing them, telling others & then that person’s worth is judged on lies. OK?”

“OK dad.”

“Good boy, now sit there & read your Bible.”
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January 23, 2012 8:40pm
Nostalgia-NZ

Of course they seized nz government bonds. But don’t worry about that, someone had to pay for it.
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January 23, 2012 8:46pm
Joseph Carpenter

Re MegaUpload: I wonder if this only the start, even if Dotcom walks or is convicted. They have now seized all the Mega records and servers and information which will no doubt get passed along to the copyright holding corporations. They then trawl through the 150 million registered users and billions of casual user up/downloads looking for possible infringements, and then start demanding the IP ID’s from ISP’s using laws like our 3-strikes which are now widespread.

But I’m safe you say because I only used Mega for that open source software – but are you sure 100% it contained no proprietary component – it only needs a tiny fraction for tainting. Or you only downloaded that cute dancing kitten video clip – that was homemade and it was on YouTube so it can’t possibly be copyright – except the background music was copyright and it’s now silent on YouTube after a later rights assertion take-down. I wonder if we will see millions of users now getting hit to really scare people rather than taking down just one obscure rich prick wideboy in NZ.
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January 23, 2012 9:07pm
Scott Chris

A Scottish atheist goes out fishing in one day on Loch Ness when all of a sudden the Loch Ness monster surfaces and charges toward him and his little boat, roaring and snorting fire. So as a last resort he thinks fuck it, got nothing to lose, so he calls out “Help me God, save me God.”

Whereupon the sky opens and a deep majestic voice exclaims, “And who is this now? I thought you didn’t believe in Me!”

“Aww gimme a break you smug bastard!” says the former atheist, “Up until a few minutes ago I didn’t believe in the Loch Ness monster either.”
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January 23, 2012 9:10pm
nasska

Q. How many atheists does it take to change a light bulb?

A. Two. One to actually change the bulb, and the other to video the job so that fundamentalists won’t claim that God did it.
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January 23, 2012 9:37pm
Viking2

Someones been talking about you Scott.
http://screencast.com/t/HbBC2Q8C
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January 23, 2012 9:38pm
Viking2

And here is one for bereal. Mind you he has probably gone of for his kiddi nap.

http://screencast.com/t/yaxfQWiUjo
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January 23, 2012 9:42pm
Viking2

http://screencast.com/t/zX3idVsoZgA

http://screencast.com/t/wBI470Iykl
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January 23, 2012 9:47pm
Viking2

Tauhei Notts (1,009) Says:
January 23rd, 2012 at 8:06 pm

Viking
That 72 page indictment was actually more than 75 pages.
It refers to the Simpson Grierson Trust Account being seized.
As I posted last Saturday, I would be very nervous if I was involved in a conveyancing transaction where Simpson Grierson were on the other side.
No mention in any of the print media about Simpson Grierson though. I wonder how much it has cost them to have the print media to get that part overlooked.

Do you really think some21yr old breathless student reporter will have managed to read the thing let alone distill anything from it? Add to that their real lack of understanding(not thier fault, Just not worldy wise) and don’t expect much. We lacj any reporters capable of evendisecting the whole log of hogwash.
Now if this was aussie the dogs would be out and the FBI wouldn’t stay 5 minutes.
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January 23, 2012 9:53pm
slijmbal

@Pharmachick

I am not bitching at you – I am pointing out what I believe are errors in your statements – politely despite their poor scientific basis.

you said “Describing fracking as a “complex process” 1) does not scare me and 2) shouldn’t be used in a formal argument, there are literally millions of complex processes in the world. You also mentioned “scouring” and “viscosity”… both processes that are likely to disrupt the natural geological balance.” is frankly a rather loose statement.

Of course if something is complex it obviously important in any argument that something is complex – it implies consequences on any such analysis of the issue – where do you get that from – that’s an illogical statement? Anyway, the point was that specific elements of an approach are focussed on as they have the right soundbite and match what I perceived as the scientific doomsday crowd’s normal approach. Bad science with fear, uncertainity and doubt liberally sprinkled around.

“Disrupting the natural geological balance” is not a scientific statement. We disrupt the natural geological balance when we dig anything out of the ground. We disrupt it when we pump oil out of the ground. What really matters is the likelihood of causing polluting effects in these types of processes. As an example it is normally much less disruptive to get oil out of the ground than coal, gold, uranium etc It’s this sort of wooly thinking with tree hugging type statements with the implication that natural equals good (a statement patently untrue) that means there is no real dialogue about the real issues.

There is remarkably little evidence that fracking is problematic and the arguments against it are as poor science as the vast majority of the scientific doomsdayists’ prognostications eg Frankenfood, acid rain etc

You imply thay you have some ability or knowledge or access to expertise in this area – frankly it has not been evident in this discussion. Your physical analogies show nil understanding of the process.
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January 23, 2012 11:16pm
Spam

Slijmbal,
you are correct about impermeability in terms of the natural environment and the oil itself.

However … for fracking, and specifically for the case in hand i.e.: inject a slurry of chemicals and use this in tandem with mechanical disruption, then this will lift the oil to the surface. The following applies:

A good way to think about this is to ask ones self the following: If this is sensible (that all is impermeable) … why is the oil not spontaneously rising/moving to the surface? Because the “holding tank” is impermeable. Okay, how do we get it to rise out of the “holding tank” …

The logical answer is that “it rises when we inject it with the fracking mixture”. So the fracking mixture permeabilizes the holding tank.

if the oil only moves when the fracking mixture is injected
AND
without the fracking mixture the oil is contained
THEN
when the fracking mixture is applied both the oil and the fracking mixture move (since they move together)

Your final points are wrong: the oil does not “only move when the fracking mixture is injected. It flows within the reservoir, but not out the reservoir sealing rock, except where that seal has been pierced (i.e. at the well).

The other point is that it is generally gas, not oil.

Internally, the actual gas reservoir is permeable, but not very. Gas will flow through it, however it is still sealed at the top, preventing the gas from escaping (and polluting the water table, for example). If it wasn’t sealed, the gas would have escaped millions of years ago, and in some places you actually find oil and gas bubbling to the surface naturally.

Fracking is designed to allow gas to flow more easily within the reservoir. Think of it this way. A well is (say) 10cm in diameter, and extends 30 metres into the reservoir. This creates a surface area of (pi*0.05^*30) = 0.24m², which is a pretty small area for flow. Now: The well is not very productive. Gas flows, but at very low rates because the reservoir has low permeability. In order to increase the flow from the well, you need to increase the area of reservoir face at the well. You can either drill more wells (very expensive), drill further into the reservoir (eg. horizontal drilling, which may not be appropriate or possible for the given reservoir), or frack it. Fracking it creates ‘fractures’, which are essentially cracks within the reservoir rock. These cracks may be (say) 10m long, a millimetre or two high and a few centimetres in width, but if you have enough of them, they increase the surface area available for flow significantly.
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January 24, 2012 8:09am
nasska

Spam

A question. How often is an individual well “fracked”? Does the process have to be repeated constantly or do the increased faces for the gas/oil to escape remain open?
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January 24, 2012 8:39am
Spam

Most wells aren’t fracked at all – it is only ones with very low permeability.

Part of the “chemicals” injected to the well are ‘sand’ (which are actually very hard ceramic beads) that are designed to get pushed into the cracks and hold them open, plus a coating on them that acts as a glue to hold them in place. Ideally, a frack only needs to be done once.

However, a well may be drilled through a number of different zones that are actually isolated from each other. In some cases, the same well may be fracked multiple times in these different zones (eg. frack one zone, produce it out, then frack the next one and produced that, etc).
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January 24, 2012 10:28am
nasska

Spam

Makes sense. Thank you.
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January 24, 2012 11:02am
slijmbal

Fracking can also be used when extraction rates slow through reduction in pressure in latter stages of a well.
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January 24, 2012 12:05pm
mister nui

Coming late to this. But, Pharmachick, with all due respect, from reading your comments you don’t understand the geology of reservoirs or process of oil + gas extraction, hence why you’re not making much sense to Spam and slijmbal. They are both correct in what they’re saying.

The fraccing in the US, that is causing all of the uninformed lefty media “noise” is vastly different to what we are doing in NZ. Simply, most of the problems in the US, as portrayed in Gasland, are from fraccing of shallow shale gas reservoirs, whereas, In NZ we’re fraccing deep traditional limestone structure reservoirs.
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January 25, 2012 8:57am

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