General Debate 18 January 2012

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Jimbob

New Zealand’s a buzz.
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January 18, 2012 8:05am
Scott Chris

Findings of a long-term study of 1265 kids born in Christchurch in 1977 revealed:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10779433

No surprises really. Interesting reading.
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January 18, 2012 8:13am
iMP

Apparently a condition of Brian Bruce’s documentary about child poverty was that TV3 air it in the week of the election campaign,
which demonstrates his political agenda. The doc. was made to negatively attack the government with pro lab. self righteousness.

NZ on Air and other officials have rightly raised concerns about bias. It was the timing. Ok if Lab. was paying but again, hoofs
in taxpayer trough. using us for party political backdoor influence (like Union fees).
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January 18, 2012 8:19am
Scott Chris

Israel’s Foreign Minister Faces Corruption Charges:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10779331

➡ “Described once by an American magazine editor as a “neo-fascist” and a “certified gangster”, Israel’s firebrand Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman is no stranger to controversy.”
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January 18, 2012 8:31am
Manolo

The sneaky Wellington City Council: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6273403/Councillors-want-spy-car-taken-off-the-road
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January 18, 2012 8:41am
TimG_Oz

Scott Chris, you might find this article better written than the drivel reprinted from the Guardian.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=254037

I mean, what relevance to quotes from an unnamed “American Magazine Editor” have to a first sentence.
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January 18, 2012 8:47am
Pete George

Findings of a long-term study of 1265 kids born in Christchurch in 1977 revealed:

Professor Fergusson said the study showed that income inequality and behavioural issues, such as parents’ addictions, both had to be tackled to fix social problems.

“For example, increasing the income of substance-using parents may be counter-productive since it will give them more access to purchasing alcohol or drugs,” he said.

So yes, no real surprise about that.
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January 18, 2012 9:15am
travellerev

Here’s my daily troll baiting.

Here is a new video detailing the different elements of the collapse of the three WTC buildings on 911.
Bombs in the basement and the lobby and three pyroclastic flows as hot as a vocano’s pyroclastic flow are some of the puzzling and unexplained issues addressed here.

Enjoy!
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January 18, 2012 9:16am
Manolo

Interesting article from Financial Times: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/1d92589a-3090-11e1-9436-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1jkU5OndB
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January 18, 2012 9:19am
Manolo

trivialrev, show us your “secret” proof about that horrible hoax: thre moon landings. C’mon Dutch genius.
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January 18, 2012 9:21am
Pauleastbay

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/17/abu-qatada-deportation-blocked-european

And people wonder why Europe is rooted

Just put him in a dingy and push him off towards the Atlantic
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January 18, 2012 9:21am
travellerev

Manolo, What is it with you and the moonlandings? You obsessed or something?
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January 18, 2012 9:23am
dime

Front page of the herald online has a small headline “more sexist beer ads coming?” and a picture from a tui ad.

Why is it ok to portray men as total fuckwits on ads? every second ad has some dopey guy on it.

50 things your husband could be doing right now??

the jerk off lusting over a mazda ute

the moron holding his breath so the chick will change channel? another sky ad.. at least they made fun of a brown person for once.

usually its just white guys that are fuck wits.

Dime needs to start an advertising company!
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January 18, 2012 9:24am
Pete George

TV3 call it “Doco censorship an ‘affront to democracy'”

I call their timing an affront to democracy.

A week or three earlier would have been a legitimate addition to the election debate. Leaving no time to debate makes it look like another attempt to influence the outcome of the election.
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January 18, 2012 9:25am
dime

Pete – agree.

Id feel the same if it was a doco bagging labour.

Too much dodgy shit is going on at election time. a few people need to be slapped. turns out they are all leftys. go figure.
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January 18, 2012 9:55am
adze

I didn’t see the doco so I’ll reserve judgement, but the fact that RNZ and TV3 are squealing about it gives me an idea as to the political implications of the doco :). I doubt they would be if it was a doco that discussed an issue with right wing perspectives during the election campaign.
I was pissed off with the Media 7 coverage of the issue after the election as well, it was basically an open forum for the doco producer to explain why it wasn’t biased. Not that the Media7 guy has left leaning sympathies of course…
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January 18, 2012 10:15am
Keeping Stock

It’s all to easy to be critical of CYF as the tide of child abuse cases shows no signs of turning. But on this occasion, they’ve done exactly the right thing, and all power to them!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2012/01/putting-child-first.html
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January 18, 2012 10:48am
KiwiGreg

Kiwibank has bought Gareth Morgan’s kiwisaver business. So the fucking national govenrment nationalises some more of the financial sector. What moron would let Cullen anywhere near a taxpayer checkbook?
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January 18, 2012 11:16am
Elaycee

And trivialrev bursts through the door with her latest conspiracy…. [cough]…

I think this is the clip she meant to use…. 😀

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9THwnQg-vEw
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January 18, 2012 11:22am
joana

Dime
I agree. Young men are portrayed as being particularly stupid. I think a Libra ad..but lots of others. This seems to have been going on for ages. I always think if it was young women or women being made to look so ridiculous , there would be lots of complaints. I think men should start complaining. Young men have had it rough in the schools with all the ”girls know everything and more” campaign..Many young women look down on young men and consider themselves to be so much better. Hardly surprising with all the brainwashing they have been subjected to.
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January 18, 2012 11:33am
Longknives

Wasn’t it only last week that Mummy was stating her ‘little angel’ was merely a “suspect”??

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/6275360/Teen-admits-campground-sex-attack-on-five-year-old
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January 18, 2012 12:00pm
Longknives

Travellerev- Wow! The New York Fire Department was in on the conspiracy as well?? It’s tinfoil hat time at your house mate…341 Firefighters lost their lives that day…
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January 18, 2012 12:08pm
bereal

Is there a case to hold the mother culpable to some degree in every child murder, regardless of
who the actual murderer is ?

‘Police are trying to build a picture of the movements of Wanganui triplet Hinekawa Topia in the weeks
before her death.’

These triplets were 2 months old and it would seem that the mother had no idea where they were.
(if the mother doesn’t give a fuck, who the fuck does ?)

Also. Continuing the non leadership from Maori leaders on the issue of Maori child murders,
Tariana Turia makes a helpfull contribution in todays Herald.
“It’s really important that the family be left to get on
with sorting out whatever it is they need to, and it’s not helpfull for me or anybody else to be
commenting.” she said.
A little late for the family to start sorting things out don’t you think Tariana ?

And another timely gem from the mouth of Norm Hewitt,
“Her death is a reminder that the country needed to take a look at how so many children were
so vulnerable to abuse.”
Nice one Norm.

Maybe Norm is right, maybe it’s time to take a look. FFS.
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January 18, 2012 12:15pm
wf

Why all the fuss about the Children in Poverty documentary?

Who looked at it? I started to but at about 3 minutes in I realised it was a no-good-news tale of woe without contributing anything.

What’s more, no-one I know looked at it or has mentioned it in conversation, and apart from discussions on a couple of blogs, and today on the news, there has been total silence.

If it had had anything useful to say I think I would have heard about it, one way or another.
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January 18, 2012 12:17pm
Luc Hansen

A couple of interesting aspects to this article published this morning:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/media-publishing-industry/news/article.cfm?c_id=707&objectid=10778603

Here’s an extract:

Israeli military analyst Ron Ben-Yishai, in the newspaper Yediot Achronot, suggested Iran feared a Westerm strike if it retaliated. “Under such circumstances, Israel or a Western coalition (or both) will have an excellent pretext to strike and destroy Iran’s nuclear and missile sites,” he said.

Pretext: a purpose or motive alleged or an appearance assumed in order to cloak the real intention or state of affairs.

So, if the implication that Israel is carrying out these murders on foreign soils is to be believed, the reasoning is that an in-kind response to these attacks against a sovereign state is a pretext for an all out attack.

But, if one has a genuine reason for war against another country, why not just declare war and have at it?

And what is the true reason for war against Iran? One view for which I have a great deal of sympathy is that the military-industrial complexes of both countries, intertwined as they are, depend upon their populations being kept in a constant state of fear and terror over non-existent, even laughable, threats.

Sadly for Israel, this is not considered reason enough in international law. Not that that would matter if the US climbed onboard, hegemonic imperial powers can do anything, but the US has specifically ruled out action in the current circumstances.

Iran will do nothing to change that calculus and will carry on developing nuclear technology as permitted within the framework of the NPT – to which Iran is a signatory, unlike Israel.
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January 18, 2012 12:20pm
Lance

Luc thinks Irans nuclear weapons program is a “laughable threat” or non existent

Tui ad time
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January 18, 2012 12:26pm
Weihana

“A Polish court slapped a fine on a popular singer who bad-mouthed the Bible…

Dorota Rabczewska, a singer who uses the stage name Doda, said in a 2009 interview that she doubted the Bible “because it’s hard to believe in something that was written by someone drunk on wine and smoking some herbs.”

A Warsaw court ordered her Monday to pay a fine of 5000 zlotys (NZ$1827) for offending religious feelings.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/6269061/Poland-fines-singer-for-bashing-Bible

Ohhh poor wee Christians. Such sensitive souls.

I wonder when we are going to get rid of the ridiculous s123 of the Crimes Act which makes “Blasphemous Libel” an offence? Time for Christians to be told they can shove their oppressive dogma up their own arses I feel.

Of course removing s123 would have no practical effect as it is a law never enforced, but symbolism is important and we must be clear with ourselves that we are a tolerant secular society that doesn’t punish people merely because they offend some neanderthal who believes in sky pixies.

🙂
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January 18, 2012 12:32pm
Put it away

Luc Hanson’s “argument” depends on quibbling over the English definition of a word translated from an article in a Hebrew newspaper? Oh dear.
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January 18, 2012 12:35pm
Paulus

I see that Gareth Morgan has been “nationalised” by Kiwi Bank.
Great philanthropy with taxpayers money paying for it. Without Government (taxpayer funding via the Post Office) regularly backing of Kiwi Bank it would probably not be solvent.
Morgan’s Kiwisaver results have been piss poor. What is he going to save now – first a penguin, now a smelly drunkard’s funeral – what next.
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January 18, 2012 1:02pm
Chuck Bird

LIVE pub politics in Hamilton from the House on Hood, Hamilton: Wednesday, 18th of January. Back Benches

For those in the Hamilton area.

Join us for a night of LIVE pub politics in Hamilton from the House on
Hood: Wednesday, 18th of January. Our Panel: Green Party MP Catherine
Delahunty, Labour MP Sue Moroney, National MP Tim Macindoe, and New
Zealand First MP Tracey Martin.

http://tvnz.co.nz/back-benches/coming-up-summer-tour-3226415
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January 18, 2012 1:37pm
Swampy

Gareth Morgan is selling GMI to Kiwibank. Bad move I think. Completely different culture from a well managed private investment fund to an SOE with a different culture of state ownership.
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January 18, 2012 1:42pm
Manolo

It could be an excellent idea for a South Auckland trial: http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2012/01/17/for-2-burger-king-will-come-to/
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January 18, 2012 2:33pm
thedavincimode

Our Panel: Green Party MP Catherine
Delahunty, Labour MP Sue Moroney … and New
Zealand First MP …

I’d really love to make that one Chuck, but unfortunately I’ve planned to spend the night pulling out my nose hairs and I’ve already put a non-refundable deposit on the tweezers.
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January 18, 2012 2:39pm
Manolo

The unbearable double-whammy of having to live in Hamilton and watch these three no-hopers. 🙂
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January 18, 2012 2:45pm
Pauleastbay

Half a million in salaries for those 4 no hopers, unbelievable, live electrocution on TV is about the only thing that would make it interesting.

Not one of them will make the slightest contribution to the forth coming Parliament ,its a fucking crime
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January 18, 2012 2:52pm
Chuck Bird

“I’d really love to make that one Chuck, but unfortunately I’ve planned to spend the night pulling out my nose hairs and I’ve already put a non-refundable deposit on the tweezers.”

Judging by the above comment you would make a great heckler.
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January 18, 2012 2:53pm
thedavincimode

Manolo

So you’ve taken a bit of a shine to Tim Macindoe have you then? 🙂
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January 18, 2012 2:54pm
plebe

This is why i dont have much time for maori , this bros attitude is,its alright to rob my home but if he rapes my wife that steps over a line, fuck bro dont rob other peoples houses and we might start to respect you maori,but then we probably will not.
(A handful of observers were outside the court. One Taupo man said he had known the youth most of his life and was friendly with his father.

He said he felt sorry for his whanau but the youth had crossed the line: “He could have robbed it (the caravan) and left it at that,” the man said.)
hint bypass Taurangi,not worth the risk from the idiot above.
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January 18, 2012 3:06pm
Manolo

.. you’ve taken a bit of a shine to Tim Macindoe have you then?

Tim is an intellectual giant, only surpassed by Labour’s lite Nick Smith, true Einstein-reincarnated.
Jokes aside, Tim is above the others, who are a waste of space and money.
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January 18, 2012 3:11pm
mikenmild

“i dont have much time for maori”. Stay classy, plebe.
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January 18, 2012 3:11pm
plebe

More maori issures,words escape me.
http://nz.yahoo.com/s/364745
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January 18, 2012 3:16pm
plebe

Thank god for the first nation,the maori, i just sigh at stupidity
http://nz.yahoo.com/s/364818
whats sadder this is just todays efforts, the dumb will be dumber tomorrow
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January 18, 2012 4:41pm
Elaycee

Haha – the Muppet marine terrorists from Sea Shepherd are bleating loudly because 3 of their ilk were ‘injured’ when they tried to hinder a Japanese ship going about its legal business on the high seas. Apparently these muppets were in rubber duckies trying to impede the progress of one of the Japanese boats and they were hit with bamboo poles / water cannons / grappling hooks. Unlucky. Oh dear. How sad. Tut tut. What a shame.

The terrorists admitted: “Our small boats were attempting to slow down the Japanese harpoon vessel Yushin Maru No 2…..” But of course, the NZ media saw this as an attack by the Japanese (as evidenced by the NZ headline).

But the more balanced SMH reported:

“A Sea Shepherd photograph taken from a helicopter shows Japanese crew members holding a grappling hook over the bow of the Yushin Maru No.2. Videos released by the whalers’ Institute of Cetacean Research today show crew members dodging paint-filled bottles, and one of them sharply thrusting a pole near a Sea Shepherd activist in a dinghy that was alongside the Yushin Maru No.2. The activist appears to be holding a short-bladed knife near protective anti-boarding nets that surround the Japanese ship….”

I’m not exactly rapt with the idea of whales being killed for food, but these Sea Shepherd terrorists are out of control. And when it all ends in tears, I wonder whether they’ll expect the Japanese to come to their rescue….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/6278019/Sea-Shepherd-crew-attacked-with-iron-hooks

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/whale-watch/sea-shepherd-activists-injured-in-whaling-clash-20120118-1q5ti.html
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January 18, 2012 5:30pm
CharlieBrown

Sometimes the cops are a bunch of F#cking pigs: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10779478

They go onto private property armed in the middle of the night in the middle of a looting zone, and a pensioner comes out armed with a bb gun and baseball bat and gets arrested. Good to see they are keeping my faith away from the bunch of uniformed c%nts.
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January 18, 2012 5:47pm
plebe

I heard the old fart peter williams talking on Radio Live going on about the maori rapist of the 5 yo. This old fart QC was going on about this maori rapist being charged as an adult and this rapist trougher needs education,help, a maori treaty claim(NOT) BUT this elderly show pony peter williams DIDNT MENTION THE HELP THAT THIS 5YO WILL NEED, nothing is as pathetic as a old fart QC whose face isnt in the news. I hope there is vasiline in the show booths for this maori ,5 yo rapist/robber.PETER where were you when your opportunity boy was raping??????????WHERE?????
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January 18, 2012 5:48pm
calendar girl

Swampy @ 1:42 – ” … from a well managed private investment fund to ….”

You can’t possibly be referring to Gareth Morgan Kiwisaver there! Well managed? Why were customers losing money on their investments?
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January 18, 2012 6:25pm
plebe

I see on TV1 news tonight that a criminal bro surname williams a maori with the usual long list of convictions with a feral family in support(fingers plus the usual gestures)is being deported back to godsown.from Australia.This bro thinks the mongrel mob will kill him so could the law take him to a mongel mob house who WILL KILL him thereby saving us paying the dole or sending him to his local marae (Prison).
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January 18, 2012 6:31pm
bereal

upon reflection

i’ll adjust my suggestion @ 12.15 today to,

is there a case to hold a parent culpable to some extent in the murder of children in their control
when that parent is found to not even know the location of their 2 month old ‘tamariki’ for 2 weeks,
(and give even less of a fuck)
What about the father ? (oh sorry, how stupid of me.)

Sumsing has to be done. If nothing changes, nothing will change.

Norm Hewitt and Tariana Turia et al are not the answer.
They are part of the fucken problem.

The “farno” in court today to ‘support’ the 16 year old ‘warrior’ who raped a 5 year old gives you a clue.
These vermin just don’t understand.
We must make them understand.
We have learned nothing since the “tight five” supported the murderer of the Kahui twins.

Don’t these Maori scum make you sick and disgusted to be a Kiwi ?
Their own leaders accept it.

My suggestion might help.
It couldn’t do any harm.

What’s your idea ?
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January 18, 2012 6:38pm
Manolo

Williams in an old trougher and well know milker of all claims Maori. A despicable lawyer.
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January 18, 2012 6:40pm
labours a joke

Williams is a senile old git. Someone wheel him back into the resthome and stick a dummy in his tired old mouth.
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January 18, 2012 6:53pm
bereal

Where is the contra argument ?

How does a Maori such as say, grumptyoldhori for eg stand up and explain how it is Ok
to kill Maori kids ?
Part of the Culture ?
Speak up grumpty, or any Hori.
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January 18, 2012 7:04pm
labours a joke

..white mans fault…we should never had come here…naughty whitey.
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January 18, 2012 7:18pm
nasska

After hearing a couple’s complaints that their intimate life wasn’t what
it used to be, the sex counsellor suggested they vary their position.
“For example,” he suggested, “you might try the wheelbarrow. Lift her
legs, penetrate and off you go.”

The eager husband was all for trying this new idea as soon
as they got home.

“Well, OK,” the hesitant wife agreed, “but on two conditions. First if
it hurts, you’ll stop right away and second,” she insisted, “you must
promise we won’t go past my mother’s house.”
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January 18, 2012 8:00pm
bereal

Untill Maori leadership get the message that their people and the rest of New Zealand are disgusted with them,
nothing will change.
Maori are tribal.
The chiefs are sweet. they have their snouts in the trough.
The only change that will count is when Maori chiefs condemn this shit and accept ownership.
Sadly that will not happen with the current ‘leadership’ of Maori.
All they know is the “poor me syndrome.’
We await the arrival of a Maori leader to restore Mana.
Untill then. they will keep killing their children.
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January 18, 2012 9:10pm
bereal

Did you ever have some pet mice when you were a kid ?
Did you ever come home one day and find that all the baby mice were dead.
Did you notice that all the dead mice babies had their throats bitten.
Why was that ?
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January 18, 2012 9:21pm
nasska

bereal

…”We await the arrival of a Maori leader to restore Mana.”…..

You may be waiting for an indecent length of time. The problem is pan Maori yet the solution, if it exists, must be tribal if it is to utilise their social structure. Add to the pile the fact that many Maori living in disfunctional city families have only a tenuous connection to their tribal background.

It is a mistake we Pakeha make when we consider Maori as a people. There never was a Maori nation. Hapu settled & lived in their own areas & relations with their neighbours were not always friendly. There are deep rifts in traditional Maori society which makes pan Maori solutions extremely difficult.

I can’t see where a unifying leadership is going to come from.
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January 18, 2012 9:34pm
bereal

‘There never was a Maori nation.’
True. But.
Come the time . Come the man/woman
A leader must arise now with modern communication possibilities.
This is a critical time for Maori.
If there is no one to step up to the plate they are fucked.
one thing is for sure,
the Maori leader who may do this, for all our good, is not visible yet.
Present Maori leaders are a disgrace.
(a sickening disgrace)

i hope that a true tribal Maori leader may emerge somehow and lead
their people to the benefit of all New Zealand.
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January 18, 2012 10:06pm
Manolo

The animals are offended: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/13/despite-official-line-taliban-footsoldiers-are-furious-at-video-of-us-troops-urinating-on-dead-afghans.html
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January 19, 2012 6:53am
Manolo

The anti-American president in action: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/18/industry-source-state-department-will-reject-keystone-pipeline-reroute/
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January 19, 2012 7:06am
Viking2

Custer’s Last Stand.

Unions call on public to rally against port plans
By Simon Collins
5:30 AM Thursday Jan 19, 2012

New Zealand’s national union movement is calling for volunteers to help build public opposition to the Auckland port company’s plan to contract out waterfront work.

Council of Trade Unions president Helen Kelly says the unions are preparing a campaign
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10779669
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January 19, 2012 7:28am

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