General Debate 13 January 2012

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Longknives

Anybody see the woman on the news last night bleating on about “how sorry” she felt for that sick-twisted Turangi Camp Ground attacker? “That poor boy” etc etc.. Some people just don’t fucking get it- Society (and in particular our children) must be protected from this deranged ticking time bomb.
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January 13, 2012 8:12am
hj

Bus drivers in the tourist industry having seen Helen Clark’s globalised property market and subsequent over development are now seeing their share of the work decline while Chinese speaking (as in born in China) bus drivers take over. They work under poor conditions (eg share rooms) while relying on tips and commisions to prop up very measly wages.

[lprent: You are already under a permanent ban, and this pile of wishfull bullshit just puts you into autospam. Talk about stringing crap together with no understanding. ]
http://thestandard.org.nz/workers-worried-about-job-security/#comments

Helen Clark Boots and All:

New Zealand is the new Eden, its clean and green image the beneficiary of a public-relations windfall direct from Middle-earth. Americans are not just visiting the country in numbers unimaginable only ﬁve years ago—they’re immigrating, drawn by an arcadian ideal (never underestimate the pacifying effect of several billion sheep), breathtakingly cheap waterfront real estate, see-through fish-tank architecture, and an investment climate that, as one Las Vegas resort owner–cum–South Island winemaker puts it, makes New Zealand “the Switzerland of the South Seas.”
One of the most powerful forces in the shilling of the nation is Helen Clark, familiar to all Kiwis as Madame Prime Minister. In her book, there are no bad tourists, only ones with shallow pockets. And in a recent campaign that will go down in history, Clark aggressively packaged and promoted New Zealand as a place where Californians in particular, because of their relative proximity and the kinship in lifestyles, might consider putting down roots. “Active recruitment,” she called it, and some of the state’s richest residents signed up. Vive le marketing.
http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/kiwi-country/1

Up the road in Queenstown, nature is in full flight.
Queenstown advertises itself as “The Adventure Capital of the World,” where you can bungy jump, heli-ski, jet-boat, or sky-dive. The confines of the modest town can no longer accommodate the throng of thrill-seekers. Soaring mountains still fringe the lake, but condos are creeping along the shore, a snake of traffic clogs the road into town, and Louis Vuitton has set up shop along with Global Culture, a clothes store.
If your idea of a holiday is a seething mass of cars and people, topped off by a cacophony of helicopters, Queenstown may be for you. Otherwise, it serves only as a warning of the perils of overdevelopment.
“Queenstown used to be nice, but it’s a mess, now,” Verduyn says, as we continue our trip down the Upper Clutha. “We don’t want to get like that.”
He points out a bunker-like private dwelling atop a bluff, and shakes his head.
“It was a disaster to put that building in there,” he says. “People from all over the world are coming here seeking a wilderness, a sanctuary. The worst-case scenario is that we damage the environment, which brings people to New Zealand in the first place.”
Leigh Turner is a freelance writer in Berlin.

http://www.boston.com/travel/articles/2004/11/07/new_zealand_at_a_crossroads/

Labours Third World Solution
http://www.gmi.co.nz/news/514/labours-third-world-solution.aspx

Government policies blamed for house prices
There was a sharp spike in immigration in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and, said working group committee member Dr Andrew Coleman, it appeared that property prices did not fall anywhere near as greatly when immigration fell again.

The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices
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January 13, 2012 8:18am
immigant

In principle I’m with hj on this one. The property bubble in NZ will never burst because so many of the buyers in the market are from economies that are so much wealthier then NZ. locals cannot even compete. Even with a 100K deposit unless you have quite a good job and can show substantial saving you will not be able to buy anything half decent. Well, half decent in a suburb where you won’t need a Rottweiler. certainly I’m speaking from an Auckland prospective, but since everyone knows that Auckladn is NZ, I would say my point of view is quite valid.
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January 13, 2012 8:39am
lilman

The woman was derranged as the family of the Turangi man who raped the young child.
Denial ,and still NOTHING fromany Maori leader,thats why the are at the bottom of the pecking order in society here.
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January 13, 2012 8:58am
immigant

Oooooh lilman dropped the M bomb, he’s goign to get branded racist now.
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January 13, 2012 9:10am
hmmokrightitis

“certainly I’m speaking from an Auckland prospective, but since everyone knows that Auckladn is NZ, I would say my point of view is quite valid”

Certaintly reinforces the oft voiced opinion of same. Auckland is as much NZ as NYC is the US. And NYC is full of up themselves tossers as well 🙂 By all means, live in Auckland, you must like sitting in your car quite a lot. Me, Im happy with 4ksqm, 5 minutes to town, and $600K which buys 5 bedrooms and a high six figure income 🙂
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January 13, 2012 9:17am
immigant

hmmokrightitis

Do you honestly think If I could get a decent job outside of Auckland I would spend another day there?

Your analogy between NYC and AK is invalid. AK is 2/3 of the country’s population, or there abouts. So pretty big demographic diffirence buddy.

I’d gladly move to my favourite sea side village of Wherthephakawi if there was work.
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January 13, 2012 9:21am
travellerev

American soldiers pissing on “Taliban fighters”. Trying to win the hearts and minds of the Aghani people no doubt.
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January 13, 2012 9:37am
bhudson

immigant,

Auckland has about 1/3 of the population, not 2/3.
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January 13, 2012 9:41am
BeaB

I see even the Herald cartoon this morning wants to know where Shearer stands on the Port dispute. We know where Darien Fenton was -on the picket line. Where is David Shearer or is Grant Robertson, his eminence gris, telling him to keep his mouth shut in case he puts his foot in it?

Amazing that the biggest labour story of the year so far hasn’t elicited a peep from Mr Invisible.
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January 13, 2012 9:44am
JamesS

Survival of the unfittest is alive and well in New Zealand. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10778408

The Ministry of Social Development has $22 million nicked, numerous corrupt staff and are there any sactions against those in charge? any rapping over the knuckles? any ‘carpeting’? any “please explain this cock up”? any “I think you should resign due to incompetence”?

no, of course not.

Instead Peter Hughes was rewarded in the New Year Honours list (for services to abysmal failure?)
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January 13, 2012 9:44am
trout

A mention in the papers today of how Christchurch pupils excelled in NCEA results (beyond what would normally be expected relative to the rest of the cohort) . So everybody is having a group hug and congratulating themselves and postulating that people do well under pressure. Forgetting of course that there was dispensation for teachers to give ‘derived’ marks; a concession that has apparently morphed into a lolly scramble so that everybody feels good. That is all very well but where the rubber hits the road is where these marks are used to gain places in tertiary institutions where entry is restricted and other more qualified kids miss out. As well, of course, further devaluing the NCEA system.
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January 13, 2012 9:47am
hj

John Banks crows about the benefits of growth but this is the reality:

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/04/144641849/indonesian-economy-booms-its-infrastructure-groans
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January 13, 2012 10:01am
immigant

bhudson

Northland is just an Auckland retirement suburb. so 2/3
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January 13, 2012 10:07am
bhudson

immigant,

Northland – pop approx 160k – would only add about 3.5%, making Auckland and Northland around 37% of the total population. Still nowhere near 2/3.

Do you want to claim Hamilton too?
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January 13, 2012 10:25am
immigant

bhudson

yes hamilton too. Stop being a dick. My point is Auckaland has a disproportionate influence over NZ due to it’s population concentration. Consiquently any argument that it is the same as NYC or Moscow is invalid.

You want to argue that?
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January 13, 2012 10:29am
nasska

The Wairarapa Times-Age reports today that the scene of the balloon tragedy has benefited from a blessing & tapu-lifting ceremony performed yesterday. Water was sprinkled by a Pakeha god stalker “to cleanse the area” & kaumatua took part in the blessing.

I like to think that I keep myself reasonably up to speed with local goings on but to date there’s been little to suggest that the area was plagued by Taniwha or any other evil spirits. Nothing in the ‘situations vacant’ for ghost busters or exorcists either.

Still, better safe than sorry.
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January 13, 2012 10:35am
bhudson

immigant,

Actually, I was only trying to be helpful. There is an enormous difference in excusable influence between 1/3 & 2/3.

I would never argue that Auckland is the same as NYC.
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January 13, 2012 10:44am
hmmokrightitis

immigrant – yes I do want to argue that – the food is far better in NYC. Moscow food is slowly improving. Auckland food has its moments. The point is valid because – and you have reinforced – the rest of the country looks at NYC, Moscow, Auckland, Sydney etc etc etc and shakes their heads. Big city normans, all flash pants and mochas. Nothing to do with population relativity.
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January 13, 2012 10:46am
dime

travellerev – if some religious assholes had taken charge in new zealand and had inflicted upon me what the taliban did on their people.. id be happy to see pics of chinese soldiers pissing all over them.
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January 13, 2012 12:11pm
Owen McShane

Speaking of Auckland – or not speaking about Auckland – The Auckland Spatial Plan is required to be “Evidence Based”. A key report has been leaked and one wonders how we have the Plan before us with this evidence to hand. The first Power Point slide says all you need to know: !

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

The Auckland Plan is unworkable in its present form

Intensification to the target levels will not be achieved

Intensification will require significant amendments to the Plan

Major rezoning and widespread intensification is required

Even with amendments, enormous political and community issues will
almost certainly prohibit intensification to Council’s desired targets
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January 13, 2012 12:13pm
big bruv

I sure as hell do not care if the Yankee soldiers pissed on some dead terrorist, it is a war they are fighting.
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January 13, 2012 12:31pm
Manolo

A meeting of two bloody satraps: http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/iranian-president-arrives-in-cuba-u-s-warns-of-dangerous-alliance-1.406785
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January 13, 2012 12:34pm
hj

When Japan put its resources into repairing the remote island of Okushiri (which had been ripped apart by a huge earthquake and tsunami in 1993) the high paying construction jobs it created has pulled the young people away from the fishing industry:

“The rebuilding did bring a surge of well-paying construction jobs, residents said. But that was the problem: having grown accustomed to higher salaries, many of the remaining young people refused to return to the hard life of earning a livelihood from the sea, and left the island in search of salaried work elsewhere.

That accelerated the depopulation seen here and throughout much of rural Japan, as people, especially the young, are drawn to cities. The number of islanders has fallen faster here than in other rural areas, experts say, dwindling to 3,160 last year from 4,679 when the 1993 tsunami struck.

“We didn’t use more of that reconstruction money to invest in new industries to keep young people,” said Takami Shinmura, 58, the mayor of Okushiri’s sole township, which bears the same name. “We regret this now.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/world/asia/okushiri-japan-rebuilt-after-a-quake-is-a-cautionary-tale.html?_r=1&ref=world

I imagine that even if it was Shangrila people would leave for higher paying jobs as people have a need to rise to the top, be they bikies who have to have the best Harley or the lawyer with a sports car and a hair piece. We are born inadequate.
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January 13, 2012 12:47pm
reid

I sure as hell do not care if the Yankee soldiers pissed on some dead terrorist, it is a war they are fighting.

Yes indeed bb and in asymetric warfare where recruits come out of the general population, having either side show this sort of disrepect is sure to prevent even more people from wanting to join, isn’t it.

Sure, it’s just another log on the fire, which really took off years ago after Abu Gharrib, but ever since you have stuff like this and that video of the Blackhawk shooting those civilians coming along every now and then just to nudge it along a little bit more.

After all bb, you can’t really have a really decent asymetric war unless you stir up the population into a buzzing frenzy every now and then with stuff like this, can you.

Of course if one was really trying to win the ‘war on terror’ (which they are quite obviously not), then you’d use the same sort of media control they’re currently using against Ron Paul to suppress this story, but they don’t want to do that do they. Obviously not. I mean, if it doesn’t get globally publicised how are the ragheads ever going to hear about it?

Of course if you don’t think its possible to control the media then how do you explain the Ron Paul coverage or lack of it, despite his poll ratings. He hasn’t been treated by the MSM as the at times front-running polling candidate, at all like you’d expect, but that’s just a conspiracy “theory” isn’t it. Anything else would be complete nuts. Except it’s been happening all October 2011 through to today and will keep happening so isn’t it odd when people call an observable phenomena a theory. Ah well. That blasted cognitive dissonance again eh. Will it never end.
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January 13, 2012 1:05pm
KevinH

It is unfortunate that the pictures of US Infrantry soldiers urinating on dead Talibs was posted on the net. The expected backlash would be that captured soldiers can now expect similar treatment or worse.
If I was the C.O. of the unit in the pictures I would be looking to kick their asses all the way back to the US because those pictures place all US P.O.W.s at risk of torture and abuse including ritual murders aka Daniel Pearl.
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January 13, 2012 1:15pm
Manolo

The socialists give up the fight: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8402472/labour-gives-up-fight-for-waitakere
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January 13, 2012 1:32pm
Scott Chris

Jon Stewart interviews Tea Party Honcho Jim De Mint in this excellent 3 part interview:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-11-2012/exclusive—jim-demint-extended-interview-pt–1

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-11-2012/exclusive—jim-demint-extended-interview-pt–2

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-january-11-2012/exclusive—jim-demint-extended-interview-pt–3

Both men demonstrate the art of effective communication in spite of their starkly contrasting ideological differences.

Wonder why the very impressive De Mint isn’t running for POTUS…
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January 13, 2012 1:34pm
hj

Owen McShane (1,214) Says:
January 13th, 2012 at 12:13 pm

Speaking of Auckland – or not speaking about Auckland – The Auckland Spatial Plan is required to be “Evidence Based”.
………………………
This is a problem of population growth, the question is why encourage population growth? Current policy appears to be result of industry lobbying.

Does immigration follow jobs or vice versa?

Alistair Helm CEO realestate.co.nz suggests:

Immigration in today’s modern world is not about finding jobs, it is more about creating jobs. It is likely that NZ will benefit from new immigrants and returning kiwi’s who not only bring assets but also networks, capabilities and businesses. These businesses can be managed from NZ as well as they can be from Sydney or London. We do not just rely as a country on manufactured industries.
http://unconditional.co.nz/blog/discussion-the-housing-crisis-lies-in-lack-of-supply-not-falling-prices/

Downturn puts 38,000 jobs at risk
By ESTHER HARWARD – Sunday Star Times | Sunday, 20 April 2008

Another 38,000 people could lose their jobs in the next couple of years as the economy slows, and people working in real estate, housing construction, retailing, manufacturing and business services are most at risk.
ANZ National Bank chief economist Cameron Bagrie said these sectors had grown off the property-market boom and accounted for 60% of new jobs over the past five years.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/latest-edition/376946/Downturn-puts-38-000-jobs-at-risk

It is clear who will benefit directly from population increase but the benefits to those who don’t want to live in sprawling suburbia aren’t so obvious.
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January 13, 2012 1:35pm
hj

By the way Owen McShane you can’t fit the whole worlds population on lake Taupo even if it was solid land as people would die without essential services.
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January 13, 2012 1:39pm
grumpyoldhori

Ten to one that those fucking septics who pissed on dead taliban were good xtians who believe they are on a crusade.
Jezz and how the godly types will whine when the taliban have a surge of those who want 72 virgins by taking a septic patrol out with a bomb.
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January 13, 2012 3:10pm
Owen McShane

Because that calc was done on a “shoulder to shoulder” basis there was expectation they would breed let alone need ongoing infrastructure. Anyhow totally irrelevant to the case presented in that report which is an amazing piece of work that turns hand waving fantasy into stark reality.

There is no population growth problem. Auckland is a small city growing very slowly. There is plenty of room in NZ. The country is only 0.7% urbanised in terms of land area. The problem with the intensification targets is that high density building require large sites and because of the ongoing intensification since the sixties there are very few large sites left. Even back yards have been subdivided off.
So increasing density will require existing buildings to be demolished and of course trees to be chopped down. And the best houses to knock down are old one but they will all claim heritage status. You see everyone wants intensification but not in their neighbourhood.

And high density building is much more expensive and developers cannot sell them at a profitable price. So who is going to do it? And how. And woe betide the politician that tries to drive it through. They are history at the next election.
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January 13, 2012 3:12pm
Nookin

I think that ther is a typo and the report intended to say that all of the 1500 votes after 31 December were FROM Frankie-boy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/6253715/Fiji-dictator-angry-at-losing-popularity-poll
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January 13, 2012 3:30pm
Manolo

Going for broke, literally: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/12/obama-requests-12t-increase-in-debt-ceiling/?test=latestnews
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January 13, 2012 6:18pm
Other_Andy

@Manolo

That’s ‘only’ a $48,717.95 debt for every man, woman and child in the US.
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January 13, 2012 6:54pm
nasska

She married him because he was such a “strong man.”
She divorced him because he was such a “dominating male.”

He married her because she was so “fragile and petite.”
He divorced her because she was so “weak and helpless.”

He married her because “she reminds me of my mother.”
He divorced her because “she’s getting more like her mother
every day.”

She married him because he was “happy and romantic.”
She divorced him because he was “shiftless and fun-loving.”

He married her because she was “steady and sensible.”
He divorced her because she was “boring and dull.”

She married him because he was “the life of the party.”
She divorced him because “he never wants to come
home from a party.”

She married him because “he knows how to provide a
good living.”
She divorced him because “all he thinks about is business.”
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January 13, 2012 8:00pm
lilman

As a returned service man I fully support the soliders who decided to piss on the dead taliban members and if I were the target of their violence and dogma I wouldnt think twice of shoving a ham sandwhich up their arse as well.
I mean really people,these demented fucsk would kill them ,their families and any one else to please their god so I dont think some urine on their bodies is going to tramtise them to much.
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January 13, 2012 8:02pm
cha

As a returned service man I fully support the soliders who decided to piss on the dead taliban members and if I were the target of their violence and dogma I wouldnt think twice of shoving a ham sandwhich up their arse as well.

Surprise, low status piece of shit fantasises, real soldiers condemn.
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January 13, 2012 8:14pm
Scott Chris

So little 10 year old Ahmed had just finished his prayers for the evening when his uncle Mohammed showed him the TV footage of the American soldiers urinating on dead Afghanistanis.

And that day, little Ahmed vowed vengeance on the white devils, and resolved join the holy brotherhood, and to slit the throats of as many Americans as he could in the name of Allah.
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January 13, 2012 8:54pm
big bruv

Another gutless display by the Indian batsmen. All out for 161.
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January 13, 2012 9:05pm
joana

Yes Hj we could hardly move at the famous fruit/icecream place near Q’town at Christmas for all the buses, Chinese drivers and Chinese tourists. Only a couple of other kiwis there.
All this fuss about the marines urinating and hardly a whisper about all the Christians getting slaughtered in Nigeria. Urinating doesn’t come close to beheading.
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January 13, 2012 9:11pm
joana

Iran’s currency is in freefall and the mullahs are panicking.
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January 13, 2012 9:41pm
hj

Owen McShane says:

The country is only 0.7% urbanised in terms of land area.
…………
Would you explain where you get that from and what it means in real terms?
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January 13, 2012 9:58pm
Other_Andy

One of the main arguments of Global Warmists is that the articles published on Global Warming support their view. They are backed by consensus, are peer-reviewed and appear in reputable scientific journals.

Winegate: Red wine health researcher falsified data
From Medical News Today, word of a major failure of peer review spanning years and 11 journals.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/240222.php
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January 13, 2012 10:19pm
Falafulu Fisi

Scott Chris…

soldiers urinating on dead Afghanistanis.

That’s not new. In WW2, the US marines were urinating on dead Japs soldiers in the Solomon Island war. Its just that we just becoming PC today. Its fucking war. My father told me, that my granddad (his father who told him) that the Tongan small contingent who attached to the US marines at the time in the fight against the Japs in WW2 witnessed the US marines doing horrendous & disgusting things like chopping the ears and fingers of dead Japs soldiers during the Solomon Island battle. No one at the time gave a damn about those practices even though the Pacific commander Nimitz was aware of it. War is ugly and if you win it ugly, that’s war.
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January 13, 2012 10:23pm
calendar girl

Grumpy @3:10

You’re sick, trying to smear Christians with the blame for urinating on Taliban corpses. You’ve got no basis in fact to support your prejudices, just your usual bucket-load of disdain for other people’s personal beliefs.
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January 13, 2012 10:26pm
Other_Andy

@FF
Let me be sure I have this right, its okay to kill them (Shoot them, knife them, blow them up or burn them) but not to pee on them?
It seems like getting pissed on, no matter how despicable, odious and unnecessary, only manages to rank as the second worse thing that happened to those poor saps that day.
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January 13, 2012 10:39pm
Falafulu Fisi

Aother Andy, that’s odd isn’t it? It seems to be ok to blow one’s head off, but it’s not Ok to piss on that corpse. Obviously, the marines didn’t intend their action to be in the public eyes, but to them, it lifts their fighting spirit, IMO.
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January 13, 2012 10:53pm
Manolo

The downward trip continues: http://www.cnbc.com/id/45985456
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January 14, 2012 5:58am
Manolo

And that day, little Ahmed vowed vengeance on the white devils

I didn’t know your second name was Ahmed. Than explains a lot.
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January 14, 2012 6:01am
Manolo

Crook, liar, hypocrite, demagogue. Words fail to describe this duplicitous bastard: http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/01/13/obama-called-smaller-bush-debt-rise-unpatriotic/
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January 14, 2012 7:51am
travellerev

Dime and Big Bruv, your ignorance and racism is staggering. Here’s what a lot of Afghans prefer which is why the US is forced to negotiate with them.
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January 14, 2012 8:59am
joana

What about what the Afghans do to their boys? the bachi bazi boys? When they grow up they don’t even know how to have sex with women because they have been buggered for most of their lives. In one instance American doctors had to explain to Afghan men how to have sex with their wives in order to have children. They were shocked and disgusted at anything other than anal sex.
No homosexuality in muslim countries…give me a break.
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January 14, 2012 10:36am
joana

And what Afghans do to animals..they have long history of horrific blood sports involving animals.
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January 14, 2012 10:38am

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