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January 2, 2012 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 2 January 2012

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General Debate

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Johnboy

Of course he is right BB. it’s just that I could never admit that he is right. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 6:05pm
Manolo

..please remove the idea of any particular race or ethnicity being the problem with the rates of domestic violence or child abuse.

There is none so blind as he who will not see. None so deaf as he who will not hear.
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January 2, 2012 6:12pm
Johnboy

There is none so blind as he who will not see. None so deaf as he who will not hear.

God I really am loving this. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 6:15pm
Johnboy

Remember the stakes here Manolo.

Peerage coming up for Fester and BB rooting for him! 🙂
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January 2, 2012 6:19pm
big bruv

Manolo

FE is still right. It just happens that Maori are the major group who have been suckered in by the easy money on offer from the welfare state. The problem is made worse by the legions of left leaning social workers who will look for any reason or excuse for failure other than the real one.
The very idea of personal responsibility is foreign to pinko’s, they see the state as the provider for all and do not consider that anybody should have to work for what they receive, as long as they can take it from those who work and give to those who don’t they are happy.

The coloinisation excuse is a new one, it is a symptom looking for a problem and in Maori they have found the perfect host.
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January 2, 2012 6:23pm
Manolo

Indeed. I’m sick and tired of those “defenders” of the indefensible, those who feel guilty by the atrocities and extreme cruelty shown by savages.
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January 2, 2012 6:23pm
F E Smith

It just happens that Maori are the major group who have been suckered in
by the easy money on offer from the welfare state. The problem is made
worse by the legions of left leaning social workers who will look for
any reason or excuse for failure other than the real one.

The very idea of personal responsibility is foreign to pinko’s, they see
the state as the provider for all and do not consider that anybody
should have to work for what they receive, as long as they can take it
from those who work and give to those who don’t they are happy.

Exactly. I agree completely.

Manolo,

In no way do I defend what they have done. But my comment wasn’t about any individual act of violence, it was about what leads a part of society down the path to where that sort of act becomes more common and less reviled. Regardless of the contributing factor, each perpetrator needs to be held accountable fully.

Scott Chris,

I disagree with you completely on your characterisation of beneficiaries. And the rest.

One last thing…
I suspect that Johnboy is sending abusive or snide comments my way again, judging by a reply or two above. I say that I suspect this, but I cannot be sure because I have him on RIP, so I cannot see what he is saying.

Would someone be so good as to tell him that? Cheers.
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January 2, 2012 6:34pm
Johnboy

I love you too My Lord Birkenhead. 🙂

Does RIP have a “peeking” function?

Never realised that! 🙂

Can’t believe you really are such a successful barrister. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 6:37pm
Gulag1917

People that pride themselves in being warriors need to evolve and fast. They might discover some constructive advantages.
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January 2, 2012 6:37pm
Johnboy

Lies through his teeth that Lord Birkenhead does.

God knows how an actor as bad as him ever gets a jury to believe a word he says! 🙂

Twelve mugs must be born every minute! 🙂
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January 2, 2012 6:48pm
reid

People that pride themselves in being warriors need to evove and fast. They might discover somne constructive advantages.

In my view Gulag this is both their strength and their weakness and they need to learn how to manage it differently.

It’s their strength in that they in fact are warriors and that’s perfectly evident.

It’s their weakness in that warriors aren’t normally social losers who rely on the dole and have rotting teeth.

This IMO has arisen because unlike warriors they have over the years, adopted a victimhood mentality. It really started when we said; yep, fair enough, we robbed you and it’s time to put it right. Ever since then, Maori have discovered that the bigger victim they are, the more they’ll get.

Now yes it was correct for the rest of us to admit we were wrong because we in fact were, but the tiriti process has resulted in victimhood-city-arizona taking hold amongst Maori. It has. It didn’t have to happen like that, it wasn’t inherent in order to achieve full resolution, but it has.

This attitude is of course fatal to a warrior culture. It’s corrupting in the deepest possible sense from within the very heart of Maoridom, like a cancer.

This is what the gangs are all about and this is what the resentment is all about. Many even most Maori already know all of this, it’s a question of the rest of society waking up to it and realising the implications.

For the implications are nothing less than giving Maori complete self-determination in whichever areas of life they chose and the rest of us agreeing to pay for it.

Which is starting to happen with the MP’s Whanua Ora et al.

As I’ve said many times on this general topic not of race but of welfare, the key is not doing stuff like Whanua Ora but changing attitude for attitudes begat actions and actions begat outcomes and it’s the thoughts ones says to oneself which generates attitudes which one needs to change if one wishes to change outcomes. And the key to changing attitudes is education, in whatever it takes. The same answer applies whether you have a 15 year old EGGS student or a 15 year old Tokeroa High student or a 50 year old gang moll with 25 kids. Our problem is our educational system doesn’t teach the right attitudes it teaches the wrong ones.
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January 2, 2012 6:57pm
Griff

other aunty

As I am out of town and my mobile broadband is at best dial up pursuing links takes an inordinate amount of time nevertheless rebuttals to the few valid research papers in your link are readily available on line.Papers by known Denialist like Richard Lindzen Fred Singer and Freeman Dyson carry no weight with me or most others in the scientific community You have chosen to counter me again with miss information letters and comments to said journals are not peer reviewed research articles stories from nut job newspapers aren’t scientific research just more pathetic attempts at spin
As to your choice of three obviously i can read,, are not a troll,, or ignorant you are again reinforcing the shallowness of your standpoint.

In short your denial is driven solely by your own political viewpoint and has no true scientific backing

DENIAL NANANANANANANA is about all you have A standpoint that I find inordinately stupid and ignorant.

Agnotology a new word for you to learn
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January 2, 2012 7:09pm
Johnboy

Lets get away from this crap that Maoris were warriors.

They were losers. They owned a shitty little country (miserable as it was) and gave it away to a much weaker force than them, namely the few troops that mother England could spare to deal with this benighted little outpost.

If of course they had really resisted they would have been wiped out.

Maoris have never been real warriors, they have always been pseudo-warriors, the real warriors in this instance of history are the Poms.

The bastards ruled half the bloody world at one time for Gods sake, so never pretend that a bunch of dancing savages with pokey tongues and rolling eyes represent martial force. They don’t.
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January 2, 2012 7:16pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

NCEA strikes again.

“People that pride themselves in being warriors need to evolve and fast. “

Really? How do you evolve when you are not eating?

Not to mention the fact that people are ‘who,’ not ‘that.’
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January 2, 2012 7:18pm
Scott Chris

nasska

Yes I agree the DPB is the biggest problem in terms of negative social reproduction. I’m all for interventionist draconian measures to address that particular issue. No getting pregnant on the DPB for a start. If you do, you don’t get to keep the baby. No reason why you can’t sell it though. Plenty of Childless couples out there who’d give the kid a good home.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

FE Smith

So you’re saying the people I characterized are all gainfully employed? No point sugarcoating a characterization.

Anyone who is healthy and has a reasonable attitude and a reasonable education won’t be a beneficiary for long. I did say “stuck on welfare”
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Lofty

…you big baby. You’ll be back, but you’ll have to use a different name now you’ve thrown your toys out of the cot.

Do you think I should be regulated then? Self regulating not working huh?
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January 2, 2012 7:21pm
Johnboy

You forget to tell FESter I thought he was a prick Scotty.

I’d say it myself but he has RIP’d me. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 7:24pm
pollywog

For the implications are nothing less than giving Maori complete self-determination in whichever areas of life they chose and the rest of us agreeing to pay for it.

only up to a point.

That point being when the last treaty claim is settled fully and finally. Then we can ditch the treaty, form a republic and the united federation of iwi can cede or join in with a renewed commitment to look after their own people’s welfare.
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January 2, 2012 7:27pm
pollywog

ahhhh…but Pasifikans are masters of assymetric warfare JB.

besides, Poms just blagged their way into “ruling” half the world.

That’s not warrioring?…that’s just bullshittery !!!
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January 2, 2012 7:35pm
Johnboy

Ah you wouldn’t say that when a salvo of fifteen inch shells landed fair on top of your little mud hut Polly.

The only asymmetric warfare your mob are any good at is when three or four of you beat up a single passerby and take the opportunity to rape his girlfriend.

Lets face it you are collectively a bunch of fucking losers and you are bloody lucky poor old demented Queen Victoria signed a treaty otherwise my ancestors would have done the world a favour and got shot of the lot of you. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 7:44pm
nasska

A guy went to a travel agent and tried to book a two week cruise for himself
and his girlfriend. The travel agent said that all the ships were booked up
and things were very tight, but that he would see what he could do. A
couple of days later, the travel agent phoned and said he could now get them
onto a three day cruise.
The guy agreed and went to the drugstore to buy three Dramamine’s and three
condoms.

Next day, the agent called back and said that he now could book a five day
cruise. The guy said, “I’ll take it,” and returned to the same pharmacy, to
buy two more Dramamine’s and two more condoms. The following day, the
travel agent called yet again and said he could now book an eight day
cruise. The guy agreed, and went back to the drugstore. He asked for three
more Dramamine and three more condoms.

The pharmacist looked sympathetically at him and said, “Look, if it makes
you sea-sick, why don’t you try a different position?”
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January 2, 2012 7:54pm
Johnboy

Thank God he never needed Avigra like me! 🙂
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January 2, 2012 7:56pm
Luc Hansen

Some holiday art:

http://www.frankejames.com/debate/?p=964

Unlike the racist rants that keep appearing on this blog without intervention by a moderator, the art is a pleasurable and challenging stimulus to the eye and the intellect (although as the latter is usually notable by its absence).
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January 2, 2012 8:10pm
Griff

To say that the Ferrels among Maori are solely beneficiaries is naive
In my working life the major theft from employers has been due to Maori from within the organization.There seems to be little respect towards property rights . This may be a hold over from pre colonial times when there was very deferent idea around property.Tribal structure give arbitrary rights of possession
Of all including life.

polly
the united federation of iwi can cede or join in with a renewed commitment to look after their own people’s welfare.

HAHA united federation of iwi

that my friend is one hell of a oxymoron
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January 2, 2012 8:16pm
nasska

Paddy is fitting a kitchen in a posh house when the woman asks him if he’d like something to drink. Paddy accepts and soon after the woman brings him a mug of coffee.

“Excellent coffee, to be sure,” says Paddy.

“Thank you,” says the woman. “My husband brought it back from Brazil.”

“That’s great,” says Paddy, “and it’s still warm as well.”
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January 2, 2012 8:17pm
Johnboy

Sorry Luc. No one looked at your link.

Anti Semitic was it?
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January 2, 2012 8:20pm
Steve

“Unlike the racist rants that keep appearing on this blog without intervention by a moderator”
There be a leftie by the name of ‘Luc’

Some of us read and don’t comment often.
I think DPF does moderate, by not banning, censoring, adjusting or deleting comment unless it is right off the page. so, Luc, you can take your trolling and hijacking and digressing and fuck off.
Piss off to the Stranded or Red Blert
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January 2, 2012 8:20pm
Johnboy

“Piss off to the Stranded or Red Blert”

I like that Steve.

Standartenfuhrer Luc Hansen.

Has a ring to it really. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 8:25pm
Luc Hansen

Other-Andy

I noticed, too, that one Fred Singer was prominent in the links you posted.

Fred Singer’s track record after his early, impressive achievements in nuclear physics, included:

Arguing against the consensus view that tobacco smoking causes cancers

Arguing against the consensus view that smokestack pollution causing acid rain was harmful to humans and the environment

Arguing against the consensus view that CFCs were destroying the ozone layer

Arguing against the consensus view that fossil fuel emissions is causing the planet to warm

Spot the pattern? one success, followed by fail, fail, fail and fail.

Singer was once a brilliant scientist and he turned his back on his fellow humans for two reasons: ideology and money.

He is now, amongst his former peers, a sad and isolated old man. As Simon Singh wrote: science advances as the old ones die and the young ones grow up with the newly received knowledge. In this case, the harm he has caused may be as irreversible for the planet as all the deaths that occurred as a result of his previous malevolent actions.

And I’m sure that one Richard Muller has dropped off your Xmas card list, Andy. The BEST findings too much for your default denial setting?
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January 2, 2012 8:27pm
noskire

Prediction for 2012: Christchurch/and or greater Canterbury will be hit by a 7+ earthquake.
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January 2, 2012 8:30pm
Johnboy

At least Fred never argued that the Arabs weren’t killing Jews with their rockets.

He got something right eh Standartenfuhrer Hansen! 🙂
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January 2, 2012 8:31pm
Johnboy

Are you saying Gerry’s plane will have a catastrophic failure and he will have to parachute down to Cathedral Square and his chute will fail noskire? 🙂
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January 2, 2012 8:34pm
Viking2

Manolo (5,767) Says:
January 2nd, 2012 at 6:12 pm

..please remove the idea of any particular race or ethnicity being the problem with the rates of domestic violence or child abuse.

There is none so blind as he who will not see. None so deaf as he who will not hear.

But Manolo remeber when you point there are 4 fingers pointing back at you. 😳
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January 2, 2012 8:57pm
Gulag1917

noskire, hi, what do you base your predictions on?
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January 2, 2012 8:57pm
Viking2

Johnboy, have you been in the whisky all day. you have been a bit unpleasant for a nice day or is it that its just shitty in Wgtn.
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January 2, 2012 8:58pm
Viking2

Like lofty I seem to have returned to the usual diatribe from scott. Gees you are a horrible weazel with a warped view of your own superiority.
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January 2, 2012 9:00pm
Luc Hansen

Well done, Johnboy, you latched onto Fred’s tactics of outright lies!

Got a link to where I say rockets don’t kill?

Of course not, just your fevered (or lickered up) little brain working overtime again!
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January 2, 2012 9:08pm
noskire

@gulag, I’m not a scientist. However the fault activity is now moving off-shore, despite what GNS said wasn’t happening in mid 2011. The recently discovered fault in Pegasus Bay is active now and long enough to generate a quake of 6-7.
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January 2, 2012 9:15pm
Johnboy

Stuck to the Gordon’s all day today V2 and it’s been just such a wonderful day. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 9:18pm
Johnboy

Keep on being staunch Luc. None of us really believe you are a serious anti-semitic. We all just think you are a silly little prat. 🙂
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January 2, 2012 9:24pm
big bruv

Johnboy

Reckon Luc and Kris K might be related?
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January 2, 2012 9:42pm
Luc Hansen

Sure JB, but it’s not something I like to joke about.

As for a silly pratt, I look at it this way: 191 governments agree with the 98% of climate scientists who say AGW is a serious problem, and I agree with them.

And around the governments of 94% go the world’s population also agree with me that, in the Israel/Palestine seemingly endless imbroglio, Israel is the problem.

You just insist on staying on the wrong side of history.

And you are embarrassed by your views in good company, anyway, otherwise you wouldn’t need to hide behind a derisory pseudonym.
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January 2, 2012 9:53pm
pollywog

The only asymmetric warfare your mob are any good at is when three or four of you beat up a single passerby and take the opportunity to rape his girlfriend.

ahhh…so that explains your cuntishness
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January 2, 2012 9:56pm
Scott Chris

Viqueen whinges:- “returned to the usual diatribe”

Lol. The more I annoy you the better. And that ain’t gonna change.

Disgruntled old fucks like you who have nothing to contribute other than a litany of complaints are my natural enemy and I look forward to pissing you off even more in the future.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On a lighter note:

What do you with an Elephant with three balls? Walk him and pitch to the Rhino.
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January 2, 2012 10:05pm
pollywog

oh well…one less muslim in NZ eh

and a darkie to boot

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/sonny-bill-williams-to-return-to-the-nrl-with-the-sydney-roosters/story-e6frexnr-1226233913691
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January 2, 2012 10:09pm
Gulag1917

noskire, thanks, the situation is certainly unpredictable.
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January 2, 2012 10:12pm
bereal

Luc Hansen

You must realise that you gave away any chance you ever had of anyone taking you
seriously about anything at all when you declared yourself to be a nudist.

A fuken nudist !
i wouldn’t call nudists sickos or deviants, but others will.
Are your children nudists too ?
A nudist.
Jeez!
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January 2, 2012 11:10pm
DJP6-25

F.E.Smith 4:45 You’re right about the manufacturer. cha 4:50. Thanks for the link. That’s the plane I was thinking about.

cheers

David Prosser
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January 2, 2012 11:39pm
bereal

Hey Luc
i shouldn’t have mentioned children in my previous post.
That was out of line.
i apologise, sorry.
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January 3, 2012 2:47am
big bruv

bereal

Well done. Kids should be off limits in any debate.

Having said that, I have no issue with nudists, if that is how they want to live their lives then all power to them. However, I have a real issue with any parent who exposes their kids to that lifestyle before those kids are old enough to decide for themselves if that is what they want.
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January 3, 2012 6:37am
Manolo

The lunacy of some academics http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/columbia_offers_occupy_PKetTw1QSVVk23BllNN0DL
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January 3, 2012 6:46am
eaglewatch

If we put aside all the warm fuzzy encouragement that we constantly put forward in vain etc and put aside all the politically correct b*llshit that is ingrained into this countries racist laws and legislation etc… It is simple and undeniable fact that the Maori culture has brought up generations of criminals and if they weren’t criminals – then they have at least been brought up with a sense of entitlement and a misguided belief that certain laws etc do not apply to them.
Maori should simply hang their heads in shame and weep in pity for the many lives they have destroyed (both Maori and non-Maori).
Whilst we are on this topic, let us not forget the general strain all this pathetic lack of personal accountability etc puts on this countries economy and future outlook in general.
Maori culture has portrayed this country to the rest of the world beautifully in the case of that girl getting sexually assaulted didn’t it (just one of many sorts of crimes over the years).

Awesome guys… a proud race indeed… a great display of “Mana” etc !!!
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January 3, 2012 1:02pm

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