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December 8, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 8 December 2011

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General Debate

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Elaycee

“Go back to The sub-Standard, darling. ‘

A great idea. And don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out! 😀
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December 8, 2011 3:22pm
travellerev

That’s two. Only two trolls.

I think the Standard had to remove about 10 when I first arrived over there. I think I’ll stay. LOL.
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December 8, 2011 3:25pm
travellerev

And I have to say, those trolls really knew how to let rip. You two are pathetic in your trolliness.
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December 8, 2011 3:26pm
travellerev

ROFL
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December 8, 2011 3:26pm
travellerev

In fact I have seen wet rags who were better trolls then you two!
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December 8, 2011 3:32pm
RightNow

travellerev – you know there’s an EDIT function on kiwiblog? You have about 2-3 minutes to add things or change things in your comment. Just saying, ‘cos you probably could have rolled three comments into one back there..
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December 8, 2011 3:38pm
Pete George

FF – the worker never had ‘a right’ to a job. Just like they never had a right to live. If we don’t have a right to live then it’s hard to see how we can have any rights in life beyond what our society tries to determine.

I’m not giving much thought to the mid-east. I have a right to concentrate on things that matter more to me much closer to home, where I might actually be able to achieve something.
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December 8, 2011 3:40pm
travellerev

Yeah, but this was funnier and I just thought them up as I was thrundeling along doing my day job. 🙂
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December 8, 2011 3:41pm
Manolo

travellerev – you know there’s an EDIT function on kiwiblog?

Is Einstein Dutch?
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December 8, 2011 3:46pm
travellerev

F*&k you’re stupid!
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December 8, 2011 3:48pm
joana

Immigrant how come you know everything? Your racism is tedious. Why did you come here just to be such a bore? Oh that’s right , they couldn’t stand you in your own country.
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December 8, 2011 3:50pm
RightNow

FFS joana, you can’t even spell immigant right. Would you be offended if I told you to fuck off?

If YES = “FUCK OFF”

If NO = “FUCK OFF”
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December 8, 2011 3:55pm
wreck1080

Jeez, the pike river disaster was guaranteed judging by todays testimonies.

Workers placing plastic bags over gas sensors!!!

Freaking unbelievable. Russian Roulette.
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December 8, 2011 3:58pm
travellerev

RughtNow, You’ve gone up in my estimation. ROFL
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December 8, 2011 4:00pm
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…

FF – the worker never had ‘a right’ to a job. Just like they never had a right to live.

Pete, again your reasoning faculty simply doesn’t exist. What makes you think that a person doesn’t have a right to live? On what axiomatic ground that you based that on? Do you understand, what an axiom is?

Let me give you something axiomatic which can never have a contradiction. How about this definition of rights huh? Try and refute that definition and argue that it is not axiomatic.

Try harder PG. Your argument is as shaky as Trevor Berbick when Mike Tyson hit him hard that he was popping and breaking around the ring in round 2 in their heavy weight title fight.
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December 8, 2011 4:07pm
Manolo

It’s never cheap to dine with the Messiah: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_OBAMA_FUNDRAISER?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-12-07-21-11-49
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December 8, 2011 4:14pm
Pete George

FF, there’s a very basic problem to what you seem to be claiming.

Right to Life

The right to life is the fundamental right, of which all other rights are corollaries. The right to life states that you own your own body. It is your property to do with as you please. No one may force you to do anything, no one may injure you in any way, and above all, no one may take your life (without consent.)

If the ‘right to live’ is a fundamental right why do people die?

Why do people kills animals to eat? Plants? Why do cats kill mice? Do cats have rights that mice don’t have?

Especially, why do babies die? Children? Young adults? If they had a right to live then surely they would live as long as they wanted to?

Most people don’t choose to die, either someone kills them, they die accidentaly, they die of illness or they die of old age.

I don’t own my own body, I borrow bits of the natural world all the time and eventually I revert back to bits of nature.
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December 8, 2011 4:21pm
Falafulu Fisi

PG said…

I don’t own my own body

PG, did you just stop by the Kindy in your local area and had a chat to a 5 year old? The quote above is the daftest I’ve ever seen. Try again PG. You haven’t come up with anything more fundamental/irreducible primary than the definition that you were dancing around that you think you’ve refuted.

The argument that you’ve just came up with is an infinite regression.
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December 8, 2011 4:30pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 9:34 am. You’d hear the NY UN parasites squealing from here if that happened. According to the National Review, conservatives wo hear him speak in person come away very impressed. I pretty sure I’d vote for him if I was an American.

There are a several things an incoming Republican administration needs to do to restore public confidence in the political process. Appoint a special prosecutor for the Solyndra thing. Do the same for ACORN. Also appoint a special prosecutor for Fannie and Freddie. Make full use of the RICO legislation where it applies.

Then pass a constitutional amendment giving Congress a four year term. Presently they spend a disproportionate amount of time fundraising from lobbyists. With four year terms, they’d only have to do half as much. Thus their focus would hopefully move more to their districts.

cheers

David Prosser
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December 8, 2011 4:45pm
Scott Chris

A classic riddle:

A friend shows you a photo of someone and says, “Brothers and sisters, I have none, but this man’s father is my father’s son”.

Who is the person in the photo?
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December 8, 2011 5:34pm
JamesS

The friend
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December 8, 2011 5:35pm
RightNow

Really JamesS? I thought it was his son. Of course he could be ‘mountain folk’ in which case you could be right.
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December 8, 2011 5:58pm
Scott Chris

Falafulu Fisi – Pete George is correct. The general notion of ‘rights’ is a philosophical construct, and isn”t absolute because it means different things to different people.

Simple question (repeating the point Pete made): Why does a human have an intrinsic right to life, but not a dog or a chicken or a whale?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Answer to the 5.34 pm riddle: The person in the photo is your friend’s son.
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December 8, 2011 6:07pm
reid

Why does a human have an intrinsic right to life, but not a dog or a chicken or a whale?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…

Are you saying the Founding Fathers were wrong?
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December 8, 2011 6:21pm
reid

Hey they just said on Checkpoint that the Eurozone negotiations are proving tough with places like Ireland refusing to give up their low corporate tax rates (a’la Celtic Tiger) but the upshot is the Eurozone is going with who they can get and “anyone else who wants to join.”

Why don’t we apply? The next time the UK tries to pull something like this departure tax, we’ll just sic ~~Germany and France~~ the Eurozone on em. They won’t like that, will they.
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December 8, 2011 6:35pm
JamesS

I think the founding father blokes are wrong; the idea we are all created equal is ridiculous.
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December 8, 2011 6:40pm
slijmbal

@scott – I thought the answer to that riddle was me
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December 8, 2011 6:44pm
chiz

Oh no. Christians are offended by a song by Johnny Depp. Apparently, he’s going to burn in hell for it.
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December 8, 2011 6:48pm
nasska

chiz

Our tolerant loving god botherers offended by a song they”ll probably never listen to….tell me it isn’t so!
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December 8, 2011 6:58pm
reid

Just heard on Checkpoint ChCh residents have complained about prostitutes congregating on their properties with pimps patrolling and needles and condoms left in gardens and ChCh CC have agreed to resurrect the now-defunct Manukau CC’s bill to deal with the Hunter’s Corner issue there and just relating it to the Remuera story today and thinking about the various aspects of all of the history of this since Hulun legalised the thing and wondering, just wondering, whether maybe the reason Hulun got her mates like Margaret to do it in the first place is to corrupt. For all of these issues are about corrupting our social order, aren’t they. That’s why we ordinary people resist these things isn’t it.

It strikes me that for govt after govt after govt of all stripes throughout NZ history since we began as a nation, one never needed even to mention such obvious aspects as: don’t allow brothels in residential neighbourhoods opposite or close to schools under any circumstance but nevertheless this is, amongst many other corrupting things, what Hulun gave us all. The puzzling thing to me is, at the time, some people applauded it. They clapped and cheered and shouted hooray!! Both conservatives and lefties. Especially lefties, naturally, but surprisingly, some conservatives as well.

The interesting thing is, all of these ~~fucking morons~~ ~~useful idiots~~ people fell for the emotive sell, the human wights thing.

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

All of them did.

When what it really is about, is showing the kids, fucking people for money is completely normal, sex is not about emotion, it’s about getting off, it’s in your neighbourhood next door already by law, get used to it, if you object, you’re guilty of a hate crime.

Exaggeration today, you watch the reality tomorrow, as our kids of today turn into adults and then parents and you watch their kids, your grandchildren.
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December 8, 2011 7:17pm
Scott Chris

reid says:- “Are you saying the Founding Fathers were wrong?”

Yes and no. Saying something is ‘self-evident’ is a political cop out, a fact of which the founding fathers, especially Thomas Jefferson, would have been fully cognisant. Jefferson, who was the principle author of the Declaration Of Independence, was an avid reader of political philosophy, especially of John Locke, so would have been well aware of the *assumption* the notion of ‘rights’ is based upon.

In the end, the founding fathers had the choice of saying:

1) “God given rights” or
2) “Based on ideas derived from the assumption that mankind is selfish but reasonable” or
3) “Self evident truths”

Jefferson’s genius is shown in that he combined a theistic 1) and a secular 2) into an easily understandable, generic, but ultimately meaningless 3).
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December 8, 2011 7:28pm
JamesS

So if I walked into the local WINZ office and met a lot of 4th generation welfare sated beneficiaries (who have only recently started eating with knives and forks and sitting on chairs) – you are telling me that not only am I meeting my ‘equals’ but that it is ‘self evident’??? Oh please! (get ya hand off ya cock!)
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December 8, 2011 7:35pm
Scott Chris

slijmbal – regarding the riddle:

“Brothers and sisters, I have none, but this man’s father is my father’s son”

The ‘father’s son’ has to be ‘me’ logically, so the riddle would then read, ” this man’s father is me”.

Therefore the person in the photo is ‘me’s’ son.
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December 8, 2011 7:36pm
reid

Saying something is ‘self-evident’ is a political cop out

Scott, you have no soul? No sense of grandeur, of majesty? No understanding of art?

That just doesn’t exist, in your world?

It’s “meaningless?”

Really?

Crikey.
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December 8, 2011 7:52pm
dad4justice

Does anybody know where my mate redbaiter is?

NB: Amanda watch Graeme react. The trap is set. xx
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December 8, 2011 7:55pm
Falafulu Fisi

Scott Chris said…
Why does a human have an intrinsic right to life, but not a dog or a chicken or a whale?

Humans do have a faculty of reasoning. Animals don’t. Humans survive by reasoning, while animals survive by reflex. That’s the crucial differentiating point. That’s why animals can’t own you Scott.

You should be glad that evolution had made dog/whale evolved to a state today where their faculty of reasoning is inferior to humans or otherwise, animals own humans as their property and we would see each other, say poor Scott Chris is taken by his master/owner who’s a dog for a walk along Queen St.
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December 8, 2011 7:57pm
dad4justice

Anybody know where my good mate redbaiter is ?
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December 8, 2011 8:01pm
nasska

Once upon a time, there was a little fly. He was relaxing on a leaf floating on the water, but that fly didn’t know, that a frog was sitting behind him. The frog thought: ‘As soon as the fly flies away, I’ll grab him. The frog didn’t know though that behind him, there was a heron. The heron thought: As soon as the fly flies away, the frog’ll grab the fly and I’ll grab the frog. The heron didn’t know that there was a fox behind him. The fox thought: As soon as that fly flies away, the frog’ll grab the fly, the heron will grab the frog and I’ll grab the heron. The fox didn’t know that there was a bear behind him. The bear thought: as soon as the fly flies away, the frog’ll grab the fly, the heron’ll eat the frog, the fox’ll jump the heron and I’ll get that fox. What he didn’t know, was that there was a hunter behind him. The hunter thought: as soon as the fly flies away, the frog’ll grab the fly, the heron’ll eat the frog, the fox’ll jump the heron, the bear will jump the fox and I will shoot the bear. The hunter didn’t see there was a little mouse behind him. the mouse thought: as soon as the fly flies away, the frog’ll get the fly, the heron’ll get the frog, the fox’ll get the heron, the bear will get the fox, the hunter will miss the bear and there’ll be a bit of cheese falls out of his pocket when he gets a new bullet and I’ll get that cheese. The mouse didn’t see that behind him, up the tree, a cat was hiding. The cat thought: as soon as the fly flies away, the frog’ll grab the fly, the heron’ll eat the frog, the fox’ll jump the heron, the bear’ll grab that fox, the hunter will shoot the bear and miss, the mouse will grab the cheese falling out of the hunter’s pocket when he’s getting a new bullet and I will grab the mouse. What happens? The fly takes off. The frog grabs the fly out of the air. The heron bites the frog’s arse. The fox jumps on the heron. The bear tackles both the fox and the heron. The hunter misses the bear, gets a new bullet out of his jacket and reloads. The cheese falls out of his pocket. The mouse grabs the cheese and… the cat jumps too far and falls in the water.

What have we learned of all this?
The longer the foreplay, the wetter the pussy.
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December 8, 2011 8:02pm
dad4justice

Hey sonic do you know where redbaiter is ?

^^^These new cut and paste kids here on kiwiblog give me the shits.
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December 8, 2011 8:03pm
dad4justice

Don’t break a fingernail girls.
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December 8, 2011 8:07pm
Andrei

D4J Redbaiter is here
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December 8, 2011 8:16pm
dad4justice

Graeme do u know where red is?

^^^ Thank you mate. I was just worried about New Zealand’s best blogger. Red is class and the rest just dumbarse.
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December 8, 2011 8:16pm
wat dabney

Chinese 2485 year tree ring study shows shows sun or ocean controls climate, temps will cool til 2068

‘A blockbuster Chinese study of Tibetan Tree rings by Lui et al 2011 shows, with detail, that the modern era is a dog-standard normal climate when compared to the last 2500 years. The temperature, the rate of change: it’s all been seen before. Nothing about the current period is “abnormal”, indeed the current warming period in Tibet can be produced through calculation of cycles..it was about the same temperature on at least 4 occasions — back in late Roman times — blame the chariots, then again in the dark ages — blame the collapse of industry; then in the middle ages — blame the vikings; in modern times — blame the rise of industry. Clearly, these climate cycles have nothing to with human civilization. Their team finds natural cycles of many different lengths are at work: 2-3 years, 100 years, 199 years, 800 years, and 1324 year. The cold periods are associated with sunspot cycles. What we are not used to seeing are brave scientists willing to publish exact predictions of future temperatures for 100 years that include rises and falls. Apparently, it will cool til 2068, then warm again, though not to the same warmth as 2006 levels.”

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/07/in-china-there-are-no-hockey-sticks/
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December 8, 2011 8:16pm
Pauleastbay

A Drover walks into a bar with a pet crocodile by his side.

He puts the crocodile up on the bar..
He turns to the astonished patrons.
‘I’ll make you a deal. I’ll open this crocodile’s mouth and place my old fella inside.

Then the croc will close his mouth for one minute.

‘Then he’ll open his mouth and I’ll remove my unit unscathed.
In return for witnessing this spectacle, each of you will buy me a drink.’

The crowd murmured their approval.
The man stood up on the bar, dropped his trousers,
and placed his Credentials and related parts in the crocodile’s open mouth.
The croc closed his mouth as the crowd gasped.

After a minute, the man grabbed a beer
bottle and smacked the crocodile really,really hard on the top of its head

The croc opened his mouth and the man removed his genitals unscathed as promised.

The crowd cheered, and the first of his free drinks were delivered.

The man stood up again and made another offer. ‘I’ll pay anyone $100 who’s willing to give it a try.’

A hush fell over the crowd. After a while, a hand went up in the back of the bar.

A blonde woman timidly spoke up……….
‘I’ll try it –
Just don’t hit me so hard
with the beer bottle
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December 8, 2011 8:19pm
dad4justice

Cut and paste kids………………….yawn………………..yawn…………………………….
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December 8, 2011 8:21pm
Johnboy

Lets pick on de Oirish.

Paddy spies a letter lying on his doormat.
It says on the envelope “DO NOT BEND “.
Paddy spends the next 2 hours trying to figure out how to pick it up.

Paddy shouts frantically into the phone “My wife is pregnant and her
contractions are only two minutes apart!”
“Is this her first child?” asks the Doctor.
“No”, shouts Paddy, “this is her husband!”

An old Irish farmer’s dog goes missing and he’s inconsolable.
His wife says “Why don’t you put an advert in the paper?”
He does, but two weeks later the dog is still missing.
“What did you put in the paper?” his wife asks.
“Here boy” he replies.

Paddy’s in jail. Guard looks in his cell and sees him hanging by his feet.
“What on earth you doing?” he asks.
“Hanging myself” Paddy replies.
“It should be around your neck” says the Guard.
“I know” says Paddy “but I couldn’t breathe”.

An answer I can understand.
An American tourist asks an Irishman:
“Why do Scuba divers always fall backwards off their boats?”
To which the Irishman replies: “They have to fall backwards.
If they fell forwards, they’d still be in the boat.”

Paddy rings his new girlfriend’s door bell, with a big bunch of flowers. She opens the door, sees the flowers, and drags him in. She lies back on the couch, pulls her skirt up, rips her knickers off and says ‘This is for the flowers!’
‘Don’t be silly;’ says Paddy, ‘you must have a vase somewhere!’
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December 8, 2011 8:24pm
nasska

A man went to the doctor to get a double dose of Viagra, but his request was denied.

“Why can’t I have a double dose?” the man asked. “It’s not safe,” the doctor replied.

“But I need it really bad,” the man explained.

“My girlfriend is coming into town on Friday, one of my exes will be here on Saturday, and my wife is coming home on Sunday.”

“Okay, I’ll give it to you,” the doctor relented. “But you have to come in on Monday morning so that I can check to see if there are any side effects.”

On Monday the man dragged himself into the doctor’s office with his right arm in a sling. The doctor asked, “What happened to you?”

The man said, “No one showed up.”
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December 8, 2011 8:30pm
Tauhei Notts

Johnboy,
re the Irish.
Here’s an absolutely true story about Mrs McKenna, a little old Irish lady with whom I boarded with in Camberwell, London some years ago. She got the cheap fares out to N.Z. and I had to put her up; she had provided me with cheap board in the days when I was broke. Any way we sent her to my parents’ place for a few days. My father remarked at breakfast that it was incredible that she could read the morning paper without spectacles, particularly for an 87 year old.
Mrs McKenna replied;
“Oh, I have my glasses with me. They are in my handbag. When I don’t have my glasses with me I’m as blind as a bat.”
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December 8, 2011 8:54pm
publicwatchdog

What do all the Kiwibloggers who believe in ‘freedom of expression’ think about this?

1) “…Police is aware that Council has issued trespass notices to the occupiers of Aotea Square. Having considered all the circumstances, including that the occupiers are protestors exercising rights to freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of expression, Police has formed the view that there is not currently legal justification for Police to forcibly remove those in the square pursuant to a criminal trespass…”

Andrew D Coster
Inspector
Area Commander
Auckland City Central

(Quote from ‘Letter for Consideration in the Auckland District Court Auckland Council v The Occupiers of Aotea Square, Auckland CIV-2011-404-002497 7 December 2011 )

(Full credit to this enlightened and sensible policing which is respecting the basic democratic rights of New Zealanders.)

2) How many Kiwibloggers support Auckland ratepayers monies being wasted on unnecessary Court proceedings because the Auckland Council Manager for Risk and Assurance Natalie Verdouw didn’t properly double-check her purported and unsubstantiated telephone conversation with Andrew Hendrie “He told me no resolutions had been made”, regarding a collective response from the Occupy Auckland General Assembly to requests from Mayor Len Brown?

This was NOT true, and the evidence to support this is a letter addressed to Mayor Len Brown dated 27 November 2011, which was was annexed to the ‘Supplementary Affidavit of Natalie Louise Verdouw dated 2 December 2011’.

Why weren’t these unnecessary and precipitious court proceedings immediately stopped, once it was realised that Ms Verdouw had made this serious FACTUAL error?

Doesn’t the buck for ‘operational’ matters stop with the CEO of Auckland Council Doug McKay?

Why didn’t HE step in and stop proceedings?

How come he didn’t even put in an affidavit?

There were a number of affidavits filed by some of the Auckland Council ‘Indians’ – how about the ‘Chief’?

How ‘accountable’ is THAT?

Penny Bright
Named ‘Respondent’ in the above-mentioned proceedings – who did not ask to go to Court.
(But who WILL defend herself).
waterpressure@gmail.com
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December 8, 2011 9:35pm
Johnboy

Quite right Penny.

I don’t believe we should waste any more money on legal action when we have the Fire Service ready to do the job by applying a little ‘water pressure’ in the appropriate area. 🙂
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December 8, 2011 9:41pm
big bruv

Penny

What about the cost YOU people have heaped upon the rate payers of Auckland with your pointless and selfish grandstanding?
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December 8, 2011 9:49pm
reid

How ‘accountable’ is THAT?

Penny I started dissecting your post and I think this was my first mistake.

Can you possibly elucidate your main concern in 1-3 sentences?
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December 8, 2011 9:52pm
dad4justice

‘selfish grandstanding?’

you would know all about that Graeme.
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December 8, 2011 9:53pm
Nookin

The irony of the pennypost is the clear message that those who rabbit on about their own rights are generally very content to trample on the rights of others.
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December 8, 2011 10:02pm
reid

The irony of the pennypost is the clear message that those who rabbit on about their own rights are generally very content to trample on the rights of others.

I like trampling over Penny’s “rights,” Nookin.

Am I a bad person?
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December 8, 2011 10:25pm
Nookin

You are a naughty boy Reid. One day Vince will put your bio on his bogsite. Then you will be a famous naughty boy and everyone will forgive you.
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December 8, 2011 10:30pm
dad4justice

Yeah Nookin once you have a bloggers real name you can put them in the google machine so the future grand kids can see what kind of person they are. In Graeme’s case -lol – it will be fun.

” Don’t you know who I am”
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December 8, 2011 10:41pm
Nookin

You really must have missed BB over the last few months, Dad. You just follow him round like a faithful little puppy and every now and again he tosses you a bone. You should strike up a dialogue with the waterwoman. She has really strong views on the courts and police and things. Was she around before you left?
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December 8, 2011 10:49pm
RightNow

“Why does a human have an intrinsic right to life, but not a dog or a chicken or a whale?”

The only intrinsic right any living creature has is to defend itself.
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December 8, 2011 11:16pm
nasska

…”The only intrinsic right any living creature has is to defend itself.”…..

In most of the world this holds true but in a small group of islands in the south seas this translates into the right to sell your possessions to pay for lawyers to defend you against charges of undue force.
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December 9, 2011 7:55am

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