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December 3, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 3 December 2011

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General Debate

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Other_Andy

The Tea Party vs. Occupy Wall Street

Based on Richard A. Epstein’s new Broadside, this video outlines the differences between the classical liberalism of the Tea Parties and the progressive agenda advanced by the OWS movement, and reveals that the painful performance of the American economy in the past decade is not a function of bad luck, but the product of flawed institutional design.

http://www.youtube.com/user/encounterbooks?feature=watch
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December 3, 2011 8:05am
Other_Andy

New Zealand is the least corrupt country in the world followed by Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Singapore at number 5.
The UK comes in at number 16 while the USA is 24th (1 place under Qatar).

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/

Italy, Greece Among Worst Euro Countries in Corruption Ranking

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-02/italy-greece-among-worst-euro-countries-in-corruption-ranking.html
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December 3, 2011 8:06am
Keeping Stock

Nice to see the support flooding in for David Cunliffe

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/12/endorsement-for-david-c.html

Well done Young Nats; now that we know that Cunners is a member, all those rumours of his less-than-enthusiastic support for his leader pre-election make so much more sense 🙂
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December 3, 2011 8:10am
reid

The plain truth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dX41SkKN0tQ
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December 3, 2011 8:30am
Other_Andy

Cunliffe uncut.

David Cunliffe, Labours MP for New Lynn borrows the microphone from the Mana Party bus to give a 5 minute anti-National anti-John Key speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvenqcfX1j8
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December 3, 2011 8:30am
Nookin

Other_Andy
Please be aware that your post is an open invitation, nay a demand, for a deranged cry for a register of pecuniary interests for every government and council worker likely to be making a decision on outsourcing, the termination of outsourcing in any event and a code of conduct for judges.

The Prime Minister’s culpability in the latest recession, his conspiracy with international bankers leading to the Pike Mine disaster and his hideous involvement in the South Seas Bubble debacle a couple of centuries ago will be resplendent on GD.

There will be reams of pages, repeats mostly, plastered all over the thread – all supported by the unstoppable momentum provided by a hundred or so votes in Epsom.

Just so that you are aware!
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December 3, 2011 8:34am
Other_Andy

@Nookin

I thought Penny was otherwise ‘occupied’…..
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December 3, 2011 8:37am
nasska

Nookin

Cometh the hour, cometh the mad woman.
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December 3, 2011 8:40am
Elaycee

@Nookin / Other_Andy / nasska:

Please! An open invitation for Water Woman and trivialrev to provide their ‘expert’ [splutter] opinions?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo…
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December 3, 2011 8:42am
JamesS

Nice to see there is one ACT person not in denial; http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10770539
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December 3, 2011 8:45am
Scott Chris

Other_Andy reports:- “New Zealand is the least corrupt country in the world”

May come as a surprise to those who believe that socialism breeds corruption. Perhaps Kiwi society isn’t as socialist as some people would believe.
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December 3, 2011 8:45am
reid

The invisible man:

http://philosophers-stone.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Obama-InvisibleManFinal1.pdf
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December 3, 2011 8:49am
JamesS

Funny how, despite having been in Parliament since last century, Cunnliffe does not see himself as part of the ‘old guard’ http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/election-2011/6079302/Cunliffe-cleanout-needed-now
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December 3, 2011 8:55am
Other_Andy

The U.N. Human Rights Council decried a wide range of human rights violations in Syria on Friday and called for U.N. bodies to consider a recent report detailing the abuses and take” appropriate action.”

Russia, China, Cuba and Ecuador voted against the resolution and Syria was given support in speeches by delegates from Iran, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba.
What a surprise……
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December 3, 2011 8:56am
Pete George

JamesS: yep, funny twists in the Labour leader’s debate:
– Cunliffe wants a cleanout of the ‘old guard’ – except himself of course
– Shearer is the new MP offering a new direction from Clark’s old electorate backed by Goff
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December 3, 2011 9:10am
Keeping Stock

@ Nookin – to segue between Other_Andy’s two posts; one wonders what the aforementioned Independant Candidate for Epsom thinks of David Cunliffe adopting a faux Billy T James accent to mock Maori, whilst declaring John Key to be “the greasy little fulla in the blue suit”…
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December 3, 2011 9:13am
Nookin

I suspect that it is now going to get quite interesting inside the four walls of labour.

Cunliffe has virtually declared war on what he regards as the “old machine”. I note that he is talking “cleanout” rather than unification. That suggests one of two things. Either the divisions are so great that there is no possibility of unification or Cunliffe’s ego is so big that there is no room for anyone else’s contrary view.

His position reinforces the suspicion that he was undermining Goff at every turn during the course of the election and probably revelled in discomfort in the early debates. I remember quite some months back when he was interviewed about a Goff faux pas. I cannot remember which one it was but they interviewed Cunliffe, Parker and, I think, Mallard in Dunedin. Cunliffe gave me the distinct impression that he somewhat enjoyed Goff’s predicament and his responses were supercilious to say the least.

It is interesting to see that on the one hand, Shearer is the new face of an old machine and yet, on the other hand, there will be a place for him on the front bench. Cunliffe obviously wants a bob each way.

Cunliffe needs to realise that what needs to be cleaned out is the nasty, the arrogance, the perceived dishonesty and the Machiavellian approach to power retention. That is what is primarily wrong with the Labor Party. Until it eliminates those features, it is unlikely to be able to sit down and rationalise its vision to New Zealand and how to get there. Unfortunately, Cunliffe epitomises the worst of the objectionable traits (although I cannot say that there is any evidence of dishonesty – just nasty, arrogance etc).

The repeated sticking plaster tactics do not work and have not worked ever. Throwing money at a problem has never worked. The problem just get bigger because it soaks up the money and expands. Cunliffe is far too divisive to put together a united opposition.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6079460/Cunliffe-cleanout-needed-now
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December 3, 2011 9:32am
Monique Watson

There seems to be a flood of child abuse cases in the last week. http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/
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December 3, 2011 9:33am
Nookin

Keeping Stock @ 9.1 3 a.m. I suspect that in the mind (and I might be being a little presumptuous in acknowledging the existence of one) of the water woman, one only needs to be an opponent of Key, capitalism, free enterprise etc to be firmly ensconced in the team of the angels.

Minor issues such as the behaviour of Cunliffe on top of the bus are of no importance.

We have to remember that we are talking about a person whose idea of freedom of speech is to deny anybody else their rights (as is evidenced by her vandalism of the Epsom electoral signs and past behaviour). Being downright offensive (as Cunliffe was) is far from being a disqualifying factor.
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December 3, 2011 9:40am
Yvette

The Key Administration has had a total budget deficit of $35.5 billion in its first three years.
This comprises a $6.3 billion deficit for the June 2010 year, $18.4 billion for the June 2011 year – and a forecast deficit of $10.8 billion for the current year.

– http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10770465

Gaynor concludes “… if the first IPO doesn’t produce positive returns then the $5 billion to $7 billion asset target realisation will be extremely difficult to achieve.”
but I am still wondering [and many may leap in to say “naively simplistically”] where will the other $ 28.5 – 30.5 billion come from?
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December 3, 2011 9:44am
Manolo

His candidacy could be coming to an end: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/cain-nearing-decision-on-candidacy/2011/12/02/gIQAaxFOLO_story.html?wpisrc=al_politics_p
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December 3, 2011 9:45am
reid

The leftist media reaction over Clarkson’s ‘shoot the strikers’ comment:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100121163/how-the-bbc-ganged-up-with-the-militant-left-to-attack-jeremy-clarkson/

It happens everywhere, doesn’t it.

For some reason though it seems easier for some people to recognise when it happens overseas. They don’t for some reason see it when the same thing happens here: e.g. TV3’s child-poverty doco 3 days before the election.
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December 3, 2011 9:50am
reid

where will the other $ 28.5 – 30.5 billion come from?

Why that’s not important Yvette. What’s important is how much money the rich pricks received in their tax cuts, that’s the only thing that matters.
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December 3, 2011 9:54am
reid

Either the divisions are so great that there is no possibility of unification or Cunliffe’s ego is so big that there is no room for anyone else’s contrary view.

Or both.

I think Shearer would have Hulun’s blessing and in the public’s mind he has a powerful selling point, given many people strangely but truly still does think Hulun was the best PM NZ’s ever had and someone like Shearer – a genuine hero on the battlefield with the UN – brings that Hulun = UN = Shearer association subconsciously into their weak and feeble political minds.

Crikey I hate lefties, I really really do. They’re so naive and there are so very many of them. I bet even if Shearer had someone decent like a modern Mike Moore standing against him, the idiot lefties would still go for the UN superhero.

I’d be real surprised if Silent-T gets it but the good thing is that Silent-T is left there, coiled like a snake sitting in the corner of a darkened room, all through this Parliament.

What fun!
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December 3, 2011 10:04am
Other_Andy

Let the Games Commence
James Delingpole now wants Jeremy Clarkson’s critics taken out and shot.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100120977/jeremy-clarksons-critics-should-be-taken-out-and-shot/
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December 3, 2011 10:10am
Pete George

Acceptable smacking or assaulting strapping?

Former All Black says beating of son not abnormal

A summary of facts says the man used his belt to strike his son around the legs once and then on his shoulder.

The court heard that the child sustained bruising to his legs and shoulder and was seen by a doctor after his school intervened.

Would or should the ‘smacking law’ change have made any difference?
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December 3, 2011 10:17am
reid

The folly of the UK’s Iranian strategy:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/30/expelling-iran-diplomats-showdown

Pakistan-US:
http://www.international.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3704:when-will-pakistans-spring-arrive&catid=80:politics&Itemid=120

A whole lot of good stuff on US insider politics + the Joint Chiefs’ view on US-Pak led them publicly to criticise Obama – unheard of!
http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/11/30/white-house-insider-there-is-a-very-uneasy-peace-between-president-obama-and-the-american-military/

Good news: the Euro’s dead:
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/287039/Prepare-for-end-of-the-euro-banks-told

+

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/01/mervyn-king-bank-reserves-eurozone-crisis

A further progression of the banksters plan to amalgamate national economies and allow Brussels to tax and determine spending in one’s own national economy. Didn’t someone warn us once or twice about taxation without representation? If you doubt its the bankster’s plan then look into the IMF/ECB links behind both the presidents of Italy and Greece and ask yourself, why were those particular people appointed over other choices?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8927918/ECBs-Draghi-We-need-fiscal-union-not-bank-intervention.html

Hopefully everyone knows Fukushima is still critical and unstoppable. Once it burns through the reactor vessel that’s it. And its close. And yet still the Japanese govt haven’t fully informed their own people.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/11/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-reactor-1-tepco.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/asia/meltdown-in-japan-may-have-been-worse-than-thought.html?_r=1

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/japan-nuclear-meltdown-maybe-worse-thought-081203089.html
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December 3, 2011 10:31am
reid

More on Eric Holder (of Fast and Furious fame):

also see the US insider politics link in my post above:

http://americanfreepress.net/?p=1367
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December 3, 2011 10:53am
wikiriwhis business

NWO and one world govt progress: Bilderbergers

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread536464/pg1
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December 3, 2011 11:33am
Manolo

A good example that crookedness runs in the family: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/campaigns/house-ethics-committee-will-continue-investigation-into-rep-jesse-jackson-jr/2011/12/02/gIQA5bNVLO_story.html?wprss=rss_national
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December 3, 2011 11:38am
joana

Monique
I think there is always more child abuse near Christmas.
Re Body Doubles
It is well known that people like Hitler and Saddam Hussein had body doubles but if the pictures in the women’s magazines are anything to go by , Prince William has body doubles also. Maybe some concern about security?
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December 3, 2011 12:03pm
KH

Having been a UN functionary is not a recommendation. Rather the opposite. Plenty of those guys have run down the starving locals as they cruise by in their white landcruisers.
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December 3, 2011 12:25pm
reid

Most Americans believe that the Cold War is over and that Russia is a toothless bear that no longer represents a threat. It is difficult to find words to describe how wrong that assessment of the situation is.

The other night during the Republican debate the candidates said next to nothing about Russia. It was almost as if the second most powerful superpower on the planet did not even exist.
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December 3, 2011 12:27pm
Falafulu Fisi

JamesS said…

ACT person not in denial

You may have a point there, but what do a National worshipper’s such as yourself think about what Brian Gaynor said on the Herald today? (Yvette already linked to the NZ Herald article above).

Do you have any answer? If so, put it out here to be debated? As I’ve said many times before, here on this blog that majority of voters have no fucking clue about the issues. Had they understood the issues , then they would have voted ACT and not National, Labour, Greens, NZ First, etc,…

You sir, represent exactly the type of ignorant voters that former CEO & founder of Sun Micro-system is talking about:

Can Tech Sector Boom Again?

National is as left-wing as the Labour party. ~~Jonh Key~~nesians is what the left believe and that’s exactly what the PM and his government is practicing. Look no further than the problems in Europe. The cause? Yep, Keynesians. You can’t argue against that fact.
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December 3, 2011 12:39pm
Pauleastbay

Just heard Cunnliffe admit that he has been discussing the leadership bid with the evil one at the UN.

Arse needs wiped, better ring New York, FFS.

Labour doomed in 2014 as well, excellent!!!!!!!!!
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December 3, 2011 12:44pm
reid

Having been a UN functionary is not a recommendation.

Not in the real world KH but in the fantasy world inhabited by Liarbore supporters it truly is, showing how completely mental they all are.

Honestly, they say they’re against tyranical big govt yet this is precisely what they support. If that’s not completely mental then what is?
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December 3, 2011 12:58pm
Bob

I think at least part of the reason Labour lost is because Goff was just not a good leader or good leader material. When he moved out of being minister of foreign affairs I think he left the job he was best at. He doesn’t have a winning personality or the kind of strong personality Helen Clark had. That is why his face did not appear on billboards. Much the same could have been said of Bill English in 2002. He is best as finance minister the job he has now. To do well in 2014 Labour needs a good strong leader with a strong personality. At this stage I suspect Shearer could be that man. To me Cunliffe seems more like a strong technocrat than a personality.
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December 3, 2011 2:03pm
reid

To me Cunliffe seems more like a strong technocrat than a personality.

Silent-T’s personality Bob is whatever the audience is at the time, that’s why people call him a Silent-T.

Silent-T’s the world over you see have this chameleon-like quality, in order to please people. Such is the call of the Silent-T, as distinctive as the lessor blue-spotted Warbler I often hear in the hills of Eastbourne.

The rather frightening corollary is: one never knows precisely what he stands for.

My own personal response when I spot a Silent-T is to automatically assume that whatever it is he does stand for, I won’t like it. For if I did, then surely this particular Silent-T wouldn’t have to be a Silent-T about it at least toward me. But the fact he is, is really the nail in his coffin re: ever getting my vote.
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December 3, 2011 2:36pm
publicwatchdog

3 December 2011

‘Blowing the whistle’ on Transparency International’s 2011 ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – where NZ is ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world.

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/

WHAT UTTER GARBAGE IS THIS??

In my considered opinion, as a GENUINE ‘anti-corruption’ campaigner – if NZ is perceived to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ then Transparency International’s ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is not worth the paper upon which it is written.

As a delegate – I personally distributed about 400 copies of the following ‘NZ Corruption Reality Checklist’ amongst the 1200 delegates from 135 countries who were represented at the 2010 Transparency International 14th International Anti-Corruption Conference which I attended in Bangkok last year.

(Funded by donations received from fellow concerned citizens who support the work I am doing as an ‘anti-corruption’ campaigner.)
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST – NEW ZEALAND

1. Has NZ ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption? ……… NO

2. Does NZ have an independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption? ……. NO

3. Do NZ’s laws ensure transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level? …………………. NO

4. Do NZ Members of Parliament have a ‘Code of Conduct’? NO

5. Do NZ Local Govt elected reps have a ‘Code of Conduct’? ……. YES

6. Is it an offence for NZ Local Govt elected reps to breach the ‘Code of Conduct’? NO

7. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt elected reps? …………………NO

8. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Govt staff responsible for procurement? ……………… NO

9. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt staff responsible for procurement? ………. NO

10. Is there a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Govt Public Sector, and Local Govt (Council) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny?……. NO

11. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? ………NO

12. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Local Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? ………NO

13. Does NZ have a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary? ……NO

14. Are all NZ Court proceedings recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them?……………NO

15. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’? …. NO

16. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Govt Ministerial level? ………… NO

17. Is there a legal requirement at NZ Central and Local Govt level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine ‘ period’ from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector?………………NO

18. Is it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central Govt or Local Govt level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships? …………………. NO

19. Is it unlawful in NZ for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level? …………………………. NO

20. Do NZ laws promote and protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local govt level and within the judiciary? ……………………………. NO

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1112/S00005/new-zealand-tops-latest-global-anti-corruption-index.htm

Transparency International is a global civil society coalition leading the fight against corruption. It compiles a number of measures of different aspects of corruption including the Corruption Perceptions Index, the Global Corruption Barometer, and the Bribe Payers Index. Information on Transparency International can be found at http://www.transparency.org and detailed information on the Corruption Perceptions Index can be found at http://www.transparency.org/cpi

Transparency International New Zealand is the local chapter of Transparency International and is an independent registered charity. Information on TI-NZ, including New Zealand’s performance in the Global Corruption Barometer and the As Good As We Are Perceived? report can be found at http://www.transparency.org.nz

The Office of the Auditor General’s report Cleanest public sector in the world: Keeping fraud at bay can be found at http://www.oag.govt.nz/2011/public-sector-fraud/docs/overview-report.pdf

Information on the UN Convention Against Corruption can be found at http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/

http://www.oag.govt.nz/whats-new/2011/corruption-perceptions-index-2011

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/
I-42146 United Nations Convention against C…
See Details 31/10/2003 14/12/2005 Open Multilateral

Signature/ratification status

The Convention entered into force on 14 December 2005, in accordance with its article 68 (1). For each new State or regional economic integration organization becoming a party to the Convention, the Convention enters into force on the thirtieth day after the date of deposit by such State or organization of the relevant instrument.

Status: Signatories: 140 ,Parties: 154.

Authoritative status information on treaties deposited with the Secretary-General of the United Nations, including the United Nations Convention against Corruption, is available on the United Nations Treaty Collection.

[Link to Full Status Page]

http://treaties.un.org/pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=UNTSONLINE&tabid=2&mtdsg_no=XVIII-14&chapter=18&lang=en#Participants

Country

Signature Ratification, Acceptance (A), Approval (AA), Accession (a), Succession (d)

New Zealand 10 Dec 2003
_______________________________________________________________________________________________-

Penny Bright
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December 3, 2011 2:39pm
Rufus

This story is so incredibly sad.

Key quote “Then in November 2005 Maine wanted Ngati back despite having very little to do with him for three years.

Police were told Maine Ngati was claiming a benefit for more children than were living with her and it was the threat of being caught out – and revenge against her cousin with whom she’d fought – that led to her seeking custody.

“There’s nothing that I have seen that showed she wanted Ngati back for reasons of love,” said Mr Middleton.”

When will they stop paying people to breed?
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December 3, 2011 3:03pm
bereal

reid
very good links in your efforts at 8.30 and 10.31
but a bit too much at 10.31. K.I.S.S.

Here in New Zealand our expectations of our politicians is so low..
We get what we deserve. (who said that ?)

Imagine how great this country could be if we could produce a home grown
Thomas Jefferson who could write a Constitution, that would incorporate the Treaty, incorporate the aspirations
of all immigrants, our short history, and include goals that we could all adopt and get behind.

Who is working on that ? Nobody.

What can we do to raise our expectations ?

Maybe in these days of the internet and blogsites we ( NZ ) could be the first to show the way.

No Thomas Jefferson, but maybe a joint effort through communication is possible.
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December 3, 2011 3:44pm
Nookin

Rufus
Is is difficult to envisage a more sickening case. I would expect like imprisonment and that there children be permanently removed. It would be nice to eliminate the possibility of more kids as well. Nothing can excuse that shit.
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December 3, 2011 3:46pm
bereal

8.30 and 8.49
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December 3, 2011 3:48pm
bereal

OK, got my Jefferson and Madison confused but the sentiment and hope remains the same.
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December 3, 2011 4:06pm
reid

Thanks for suggestions bereal, will do.
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December 3, 2011 4:31pm
NeutralObserver

Gosh public watchdog for someone so anti it you seem to have no problem corrupting the intent and contents of the TI report. It was about the public service. As you well know MPs are not defined to be ‘public servants’ – that is they are not employed by the State Services Commissioner. You also no doubt know while there is no central repository all public service contracts over $10,000 are in relevant select committees financial reviews of departments. Having a cost benefit analysis of contracting out c/f in house appears more related to your preferred political views than transparency. It is a shame you don’t put as much energy trying to constructively improve a system recognized as pretty open as you to do traveling to international NGO conferences bad mouthing the country you live freely in.
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December 3, 2011 4:38pm
thedavincimode

“the 2010 Transparency International 14th International Anti-Corruption Conference which I attended in Bangkok last year”

Did you wear that funny dead cat thingy on your nut, demented water woman? Is it lined with tin foil?
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December 3, 2011 4:41pm
Viking2

The global war on drugs has failed – NZ losing millions in drug revenues.

Act urgently: the war on drugs has failed, and policies need to change now.

This is the executive summary of the UN Global Commission on Drug Policy released in June 2011.

“The global war on drugs has failed, with devastating consequences for individuals and societies around the world. Fifty years after the initiation of the UN Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, and 40 years after President Nixon launched the US government’s war on drugs, fundamental reforms in national and global drug control policies are urgently needed.

Begin the transformation of the global drug prohibition regime. Replace drug policies and strategies driven by ideology and political convenience with fiscally responsible policies and strategies grounded in science, health, security and human rights – and adopt appropriate criteria for their evaluation.”

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=936&p=38798#p38798
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December 3, 2011 5:01pm
Viking2

COPPER WIRE

After having dug to a depth of 10 feet last year, British scientists found traces of copper wire dating back 200 years and came to the conclusion that their ancestors already had a telephone network more than 150 years ago.

Not to be outdone by the Brit’s, in the weeks that followed, an American archaeologist dug to a depth of 20 feet, and shortly after, a story published in the New York Times: “American archaeologists, finding traces of 200 year old copper wire, have concluded that their ancestors already had an advanced high-tech communications network 50 years earlier than the British”

One week later, the New Zealand Herald, reported the following:
“After digging as deep as 30 feet in his backyard in Onerahi, Bill Paku, a self-taught archaeologist and avid Motorhomer reported that he found absolutely nothing. Paku has therefore concluded that 250 years ago New Zealand had already gone wireless”.

Just makes you proud to be a Kiwi 😀
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December 3, 2011 5:04pm
Griff

I am employing a young lad who was expelled from school for failing a pot blood test.
Great law great attitude destroy a youths future prospects because the recreational drug he takes “might” have a small risk involved. Never mind that he can get pissed as a chook for no consequence and Alcohol defiantly has far greater risk of negative side affects than pot.
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December 3, 2011 5:13pm
nasska

V2

Thanks for the link. Half a billion dollars in a cash strapped country enforcing laws against a drug that no one has ever died from consuming. 9500 convictions entered against people for a drug only initially banned (in the 1920’s) so we could follow suit with the USA who wanted another law they could use to clout down on minor criminals.

All this crap & still 100000 NZ citizens use cannabis daily. The only benefactors from prohibition would be the legal profession & the police who get to spice up their humdrum lives jumping out of helicopters to destroy a few weeds in the bush.

Just another example of the state meddling in the lives of its citizens.
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December 3, 2011 5:20pm
Viking2

Plenty of self righteous pricks around that treat others like that despite doing the same themselves.

Just makes the law and the people who behave that way fucking stupid.

Go you for giving the lad a go and mentoring him to a better way.
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December 3, 2011 5:20pm
bereal

OK reid
all joking aside, you, or i , or anybody could come up with a fundamental proposition
to start the ball rolling.
Someone needs to.
The US Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are good starting points.

Can they be adapted for New Zealand ?
Can they be improved upon to suit our unique situation ? Maybe.

Why shouldn’t we try ?

What do we have to lose by trying ?
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December 3, 2011 5:22pm
Johnboy

No sweat Griff. When he wires the stove the wrong way round because he is stoned and not drunk trust you will pick up the tab for the dead people and square it all with your insurance company! 🙂
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December 3, 2011 5:23pm
Viking2

Well plenty of people agreed with Brash. all that is except the self righteous one that was gifted his seat in Parliament.
Doesn’t auger well for freedom.
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December 3, 2011 5:24pm
Viking2

Here ya go bereal;

Protect Freedom from Democracy—De-cretinise the Vote!
Lindsay Perigo

The Green Party, chief beneficiary of contemporary culture’s Cretinisation of Everything, is calling for an inquiry into declining voter turnout, notes SOLO Principal Lindsay Perigo. MP Gareth Hughes is bemoaning that turnout reached a record low of only 68.8 percent this election, and wants the Justice and Electoral Committee to “address the issue.”

“I would agree that 68.8% is a calamity,” concurs Perigo. “It’s far too high. Churchill, who supported democracy as ‘the worst possible system—apart from all the others’ said the best argument against it was a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Modern TV vox pops reveal the average voter to be incapable of a five-second conversation, or even of rudimentary articulation. Most sound like Metiria Turei (although at least she can manage words).

“When, pre-election, I saw pubescent zombies being interviewed about why they intended not to vote, I was simultaneously relieved that they wouldn’t be adding to the Labour or Green tally … and aghast that more energetic cretins would be.

“I call upon the Justice and Electoral Committee to address the issue of too many airheads voting and thus boosting Labour’s and the Greens’ representation artificially. Only humans should be allowed to vote—and only humans who pass literacy tests, linguistic and political.

“Longterm, individual rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness must be enshrined as absolute in a constitution—and thus placed beyond the grasp of half-wits. Freedom must be protected from democracy.

“Disenfranchising cretins, then de-cretinising the franchise: this ought to be a priority for any new freedom party such as is now being widely mooted to emerge from the ruins of ACT,” Perigo concludes.
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December 3, 2011 5:25pm
Johnboy

No one reads Perigo anymore except you V2. 🙂
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December 3, 2011 5:28pm
Viking2

Why would you want to be a rate payer in Auckland??

Thanks to the structure set up by National under John Keys Leader ship Auckland rate payers will be ligning the pockets of the Maori board in the future and if even part of their demands are met one has to wonder why we have a Council at all as Maori will be calling the tune.

Board seeks $295m over 10 years for Maori

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18&p=38800#p38800
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December 3, 2011 5:28pm
Viking2

More’s the pity johnboy.
Sheep have more brains than many voters and you of all people should know how much brain power sheep have.
😀
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December 3, 2011 5:30pm
bereal

Nice one Viking2
but i was trying to think outside the square a little more.
But good Onya.
Good contribution.
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December 3, 2011 5:38pm
Viking2

Insight: Lessons for U.S. from Canada’s “basket case” moment
By Randall Palmer and Louise Egan

OTTAWA (Reuters) – Finance officials bit their nails and nervously watched the clock. There were 30 minutes left in a bond auction aimed at funding the deficit and there was not a single bid.

Sounds like today’s Italy or Greece?

No, this was Canada in 1994. ( (and NZ in 2012)

Bids eventually came in, but that close call, along with downgrades and the Wall Street Journal calling Canada “an honorary member of the Third World,” helped the nation’s people and politicians understand how scary its budget problem was.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86&p=38793#p38793
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December 3, 2011 5:43pm
Johnboy

Fuck you V2. I have tried to put the case for sheep everywhere only to be mocked.

I think I might take a threequarter drop in salary and become an Auckland Wharfie. 🙂
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December 3, 2011 5:43pm
Viking2

Woolly thinking there johnboy.
Yoiu would have to live in Jaffa land and there is a price to pay for that. Its one of the reasons the wharfies need so much. They have to pay the hori’s koha. http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18&p=38800#p38800

😮 🙄 😡
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December 3, 2011 5:49pm
bereal

Hey Viking 2
If you had something positive to contribute to a New Zealand Constitution,
what would you suggest ?
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December 3, 2011 5:52pm
Johnboy

Fuck. I recognise and acquiesce to a master of the smiley face V2. 🙂

May the farce be with you! 🙂
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December 3, 2011 5:54pm
reid

What do we have to lose by trying ?

Only our very lives bereal and I assume you’re with me when I say, they don’t matter, in the wider scheme of things.
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December 3, 2011 6:06pm
bereal

We don’t need to re invent the wheel.
Why can’t we start with,

“We hold these truths to be self evident,
that all men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their ceator with certain unailenable Rights, that amongst these are LIFE, LIBERTY, and the pusuirt of HAPPINESS.
That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men.
Deriving their just powers from the consent of the goverened.”

If you have a problem with the above, lets hear it, otherwise, lets build on it for New Zealand.

Positive suggestions please.
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December 3, 2011 6:35pm
Viking2

The Treaty and a Written Constitution
Prepared by the One New Zealand Foundation Inc. http://www.onenzfoundation.co.nz

Whether you like it or not, there is going to be a written constitution and it’s going to be based on the
Treaty of Waitangi our founding document. Therefore we must make sure we use the correct treaty –
Te Tiriti o Waitangi in the Maori language, the only document that was presented and signed at
Waitangi on the 6th February 1840, then endorsed by over 500 chiefs from all around the country.

The majority of the Constitution Advisory Board firmly believe the Tiriti o Waitangi was a “Partnership
between Maori and the Crown”, when in fact it was to unite “all the people of New Zealand” under one
flag and one law. “He iwi tahi tatou – We are now one people”. These people will continue to distort
the Tiriti o Waitangi by omitting the Preamble that ceded sovereignty to Britain and that Article 2
referred to “all the people of New Zealand” irrespective of race, colour or creed.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1062&p=38704#p38704
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December 3, 2011 6:38pm
Viking2

bereal. go here, sign up and do a search. many years if discussion about this.

http://www.nzcpr.com/
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December 3, 2011 6:41pm
Viking2

Lots more johnboy but many don’t work on KB.
😥 👿 😯 :redface: 😡
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December 3, 2011 6:44pm
Johnboy

“but many don’t work on KB.”

Specially if they come from a socialist background V2. 🙂
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December 3, 2011 6:47pm
bereal

Oh dear Viking2
while you are dancing around the head of a pin about which is the correct treaty
common sense will pass you by.
Why not move forward ?

Can’t you see, “you, and others of your ilk are the problem. Asking unansweable questions to
bog us down in the past.”

We can NEVER move forward as a nation with your point of view.

Please try and get it. Please, open your mind for the good of the country,
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December 3, 2011 6:47pm
Viking2

World’s First Sex School Opens
Sex School

Huffington Post UK First Posted: 29/11/11 13:57 GMT Updated: 2/12/11 05:13 GMT

The world’s first international sex school has opened which claims to teach its students how to be better lovers.

But far from being a cheap thrill, one term at the “hands on” International Sex School in Vienna will cost pupils £1,400.

Swedish-born “headmistress” Ylva-Maria Thompson says anyone over the age of 16 can enroll at what she describes as “the world’s first college of applied sexuality”.

Students live in a mixed sex dormitory block where they’re expected to practise their homework.

“Our core education is not theoretical, but very practical. The emphasis is on how to be a better lover”, the new school head added.

“Sexual positions, caressing techniques, anatomical features. And we teach people hands on.”

Thompson is better known for her art exhibitions, including one which displayed 100 casts of Swedish women’s genitals.

Raunchy adverts for the school showing a couple making love have already been banned by Austrian TV.

“This is wrapped up in a very stylish way but it is just selling sex,” one protestor commented.

Obviously never been to school here.
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December 3, 2011 7:02pm
Viking2

fuck off bereal, I’ve been arguing this stuff for years. I posted that for your information becuase I can’t be bothered repeating 6 years of stuff and as at matter of interest you need to get your head around what is going down.

We have been argueing about a written constitution since the 70’s when it was raised by the NZ Party.
Do your own homework and find out the idea’s.
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December 3, 2011 7:08pm
bereal

What a fuken mug i am. Viking2
I gave you the respect that you actually had a point of view.
You just dissabused me.
Nice post @ 7.08
Probably one of your best,
in your mind.
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December 3, 2011 7:09pm
Viking2

Johnboy (6,164) Says:
December 3rd, 2011 at 6:47 pm

“but many don’t work on KB.”

Specially if they come from a socialist background V2.

Most of them seemed to have returned to their unemployment and left their day job of filling KB with rubbish and bullshit. Still the odd one left.
😕 😎 😉
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December 3, 2011 7:10pm
Johnboy

Where is Penny tonight? 🙂
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December 3, 2011 7:17pm
Viking2

The school teacher asked each member of her class to tell her and spell what they had for breakfast before coming to school – she got the standard “Wheat Bix, Corn flakes, Rice Bubbles until she got to Johnny who said “bugger all” – B-u-g-g-e-r-a-l-l

Horrified she went to the next child

Later on before morning break she again asked the class a question and let them head off to break as they got it right – after the shock of the mornings answer she gave Jonny an easy question

“Where is the Pakistani border”

She dropped to her chair in shock when he answered “In bed with my mother that’s why I got Bugger all for breakfast

😮
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December 3, 2011 7:19pm
Johnboy

FUCK. That was a beauty. 🙂

Will check the GNS website .
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December 3, 2011 7:23pm
Viking2

Paddy, who was on holiday from Ireland on Bondi beach Australia couldn’t seem to make it with any of the girls, so he asked the local lifeguard for some advice.

Mate, it’s obvious,’ says the lifeguard, ‘you’re wearing them old baggy swimming trunks that make ya look like an old geezer. They’re years outta style. You ‘re best bet is to grab yourself a pair of Speedos – about two sizes too small and drop a fist-sized potato down inside ’em. I’m tellin’ ya mate…you’ll have all the babes ya want!’

The following weekend, Paddy hits the beach with his spanking new tight Speedos, and his fist-sized potato. Everybody on the beach was disgusted as he walked by, covering their faces, turning away, and laughing, looking sick! So Paddy went back to the lifeguard again and asked him,’What’s wrong now?’

Bloody Hell!’ said the lifeguard, ‘Maaaaate. The potato goes in the front!’

😯
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December 3, 2011 7:24pm
Viking2

What was there a quake?
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December 3, 2011 7:25pm
Johnboy

The earth moved for me V2. 🙂

Not shown up on the GNS site yet!
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December 3, 2011 7:27pm
nasska

December 14th
Dearest John:
I went to the door today and the postman delivered a partridge in a pear tree. What a delightful gift. I couldn’t have been more surprised.
With dearest love and affection,
Agnes

December 15th
Dearest John:
Today the postman brought your very sweet gift. Just imagine, two turtle doves…. I’m just delighted at your very thoughtful gift. They are just adorable.
All my love,
Agnes

December 16th
Dear John:
Oh, aren’t you the extravagant one! Now I must protest. I don’t deserve such generosity. Three french hens. They are just darling but I must insist…. you’re just too kind.
Love,
Agnes

December 17th
Today the postman delivered four calling birds. Now really! They are beautiful, but don’t you think enough is enough? You’re being too romantic.
Affectionately,
Agnes

December 18th
Dearest John:
What a surprise! Today the postman delivered five golden rings. One for each finger. You’re just impossible, but I love it. Frankly, John, all those squawking birds were beginning to get on my nerves.
All my love,
Agnes

December 19th
Dear John:
When I opened the door there were actually six geese a-laying on my front steps. So you’re back to the birds again, huh? Those geese are huge. Where will I ever keep them? The neighbors are complaining and I can’t sleep through the racket. PLEASE STOP!
Cordially,
Agnes

December 20th
John:
What’s with you and those fucking birds???? Seven swans-a-swimming. What kind of damn joke is this? There’s bird shit all over the house and they never stop the racket. I’m a nervous wreck and I can’t sleep all night. IT’S NOT FUNNY…….So stop with those fucking birds.
Sincerely,
Agnes

December 21st
OK Buster:
I think I prefer the birds. What the hell am I going to do with eight maids-a-milking? It’s not enough with all those birds and eight maids-a-milking, but they had to bring their own damn cows. There is shit all over the lawn and I can’t move into my own house. Just lay off me. SMART ASS.
Ag

December 22nd
Hey Shithead:
What are you? Some kind of sadist? Now there’s nine pipers playing. And Christ – do they play. They have never stopped chasing those maids since they got here yesterday morning. The cows are upset and are stepping all over those screeching birds. No wonder they screech. What am I going to do? The neighbors have started a petition to evict me. You’ll get yours.
From Ag

December 23rd
You Rotten Prick:
Now there’s ten ladies dancing – I don’t know why I call those sluts ladies. They’ve been balling those nine pipers all night long. Now the cows can’t sleep and they’ve got diarrhea. My living room is a river of shit. The commissioner of buildings has subpoenaed me to give cause why the building shouldn’t be condemned. I’m sticking the police on you.
One who means it,
Ag

December 24th
Listen Fuckhead:
What’s with the eleven lords-a-leaping on those maids and aforementioned “ladies”? Some of those broads will never walk again. Those pipers ran through the maids and have been committing sodomy with the cows. All 23 of the birds are dead. They have been trampled to death in the orgy. I hope you’re satisfied, you rotten swine.
Your sworn enemy,
Miss Agnes McCallister

December 25th
(From the law offices of Taeker, Spredar, and Baegar)
Dear Sir:
This is to acknowledge your latest gift of twelve fiddlers fiddling, which you have seen fit to inflict on our client, Miss Agnes McCallister. The destruction, of course, was total. All correspondence should come to our attention. If you should attempt to reach Miss McCallister at Happy Dale Asylum, the attendants have instructions to shoot you on sight. With this letter, please find attached a warrant for your arrest.
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December 3, 2011 7:37pm
Johnboy

5.7 30K east of Picton
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December 3, 2011 7:39pm
Other_Andy

Well isn’t the ‘Arab Spring’ going well?

The Muslim Brotherhood is in the lead in Egypt and the Salafists taking a big chunck of the votes.
In Morocco the Islamist party wins the most seats in the parliamentary elections.
In Tunesia another win for an Islamist party. Their new draft constitution even includes a clause condemning normalisation with Israel.

Sharia here we come.
Obama, the braindead MSM and the ‘progressives’ must be happy.
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December 3, 2011 7:40pm
Elaycee

@Johnboy:

It was a ‘beauty’

Sat, Dec 3 2011 7:19 pm
Magnitude: 5.7
Depth: 60 km
Details: 30 km east of Picton

Shit! Are the sheep all OK? Did you have to make sure that your ‘pet’ got a ‘special cuddle’?
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December 3, 2011 7:42pm
Johnboy

No sweat Elaycee as an old Wellingtonian you will know we take these minor upheavals in our stride.

I’m a bit concerned about all those bloody volcanoes under your new abode!

Fuck when the eruption happens how will the rest of NZ cope if we don’t have all you Jafa’s whining and moaning on our behalf ? 🙂
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December 3, 2011 7:46pm
Elaycee

Wash your mouth out, Johnboy.

Once a Wellington boy – always one. No white Gucci shoes, Del Boy medallions or cravats to be seen in my wardrobe! 8)
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December 3, 2011 7:54pm
Johnboy

It was an interesting movement Elaycee. Urgent at the onset but became gentle and lasted for a while. 🙂

Alas if only my beloved could emulate such a feeling I would be a happy shepherd! 🙂
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December 3, 2011 7:58pm
nasska

A prize fighter was driving through Scotland – on a winter holiday with his wife. He said, “I’ve been thinking. I’ve always heard how tough Highlanders are. Here I am with a 20-0 record in the ring. I feel like I’m tough but I’ve never fought a Jock. It’s got me to wondering.”

The wife said, “Oh, that doesn’t make any difference. You’re successful at what you do. You’ve fought some mighty tough guys and you’ve always come out on top.”
He said, “Yeah, but I still can’t help but wonder. Before we go home, I’m going to have to whip a Jock’s arse.”

A while later a tyre blew out. The fighter had to stop and it was way below freezing with driving sleet. He was not looking forward to changing the wheel. As he started getting the jack out a breakdown truck drove by. The driver, a giant of a man, asked “D’ye need a hand Jimmy?”
The fighter said, “Yeah, I need a wheel change and I need to whip a Jock’s arse. Which one do you want to help me with?”
The jock said, “Hae aboot this? Ye whop my arse, I’ll change your wheel. I whop your arse, ye hold my balls up out of the snow while I fuck the wee lady.”
They agreed and set to.

A little later the prize fighter and his wife were back on the road and she said, “I guess that Highlander wasn’t so tough after all.”
He said, “No, did you see the way he flinched when I dropped his balls in the snow ?”
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December 3, 2011 8:04pm
bhudson

@Johnboy,

“It was an interesting movement Elaycee. Urgent at the onset but became gentle and lasted for a while.”

You are, of course, referring to the earthquake???
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December 3, 2011 8:07pm
Johnboy

Wearing the plaid o’er winter maks yer scrotes immune tay the snow nasska!! 🙂
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December 3, 2011 8:08pm
Falafulu Fisi

Other Andy said…

The Muslim Brotherhood is in the lead in Egypt and the Salafists taking a big chunck of the votes.
In Morocco the Islamist party wins the most seats in the parliamentary elections.
In Tunesia another win for an Islamist party. Their new draft constitution even includes a clause condemning normalisation with Israel.

Sharia here we come.
Obama, the braindead MSM and the ‘progressives’ must be happy.

Hehe, tell that to Pete George Other_Andy. That’s democracy at work? The wishes of the majority is what dictates what a society can or can’t do. I’m in for democracy, but democracy that is based on the concept of rights as its foundation, something that is untouchable & must be protected by a constitution for any political system in any country. It can’t be changed according to the whims of politicians or popular support from the population.

See, the Arab Spring result is none of those, however the supporter of democracy can’t argue that it is a good thing that Islamist won. There is no doubt that the winners will imposed their dictatorial ideology (no such thing as rights – whatever the Koran says is) on the population.

Can Pete George and his ilk step in here to defend the elections of Islamists to power in those Arab countries?

As I said many times on this blog before, if some one faces a contradiction, then he/she must immediately know that his/her beliefs is wrong in reality (philosophically).

C’mon dudes, say something.
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December 3, 2011 8:09pm
Other_Andy

“That’s democracy at work?”

Yep.
They win the election, take power and eliminate the opposition.
Just like Hamas (An offshoot of the MB).
When they won the election (With the help of bribery) they executed all Fatah members.
Still remember the videos of Fatah members being bludgeoned by mobs and thrown off the rooftops.
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December 3, 2011 8:16pm
Viking2

Just in Case You Have Nothing Better to Do
(i.e. Bored)

Just Click on the Door Stop and
then click on the larger image…….
http://garyc.me/fun/bring.swf
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December 3, 2011 8:25pm
Other_Andy

Oh, and did I mention Libya?
Abdel Hakim Belhadj, an Islamist former commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, one of Libya’s most powerful militias, and who may have had ties to al-Qaida in the past, has a very good chance of gaining power there.
I hope the Europeans and the US are happy…
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December 3, 2011 8:27pm
Johnboy

Nothing that Sam Cohen’s little invention can’t cope with Other! 🙂
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December 3, 2011 8:30pm
Other_Andy

@Johnboy

Don’t even joke about that…..
Whatever happens, it looks like we are in for a very rough time in the ME.
Iran is still stirring sh$t in Syria, the UE, Qatar and Iraq.
‘Interesting’ times.
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December 3, 2011 8:38pm
Viking2

So that was the south sliding under your platform over Wainui way then johnboy. You are p[robably .5 of a millimeter further above sea level now. Enjoy the view. 😀
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December 3, 2011 8:40pm
Johnboy

I have serious faith in the Jews Other.

They are Gods people of course! 🙂
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December 3, 2011 8:40pm

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