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November 3, 2011 1:01pm by David Farrar

Some debate highlights

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Election 2011
NZ Politics
Election 2011

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GPT1

Ouch, possum in headlights. That is a smack down of the highest order.
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November 3, 2011 1:12pm
Black with a Vengeance

It’s the smarm Key oozes like pus from an infected wound that irks me…ugly !!!
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November 3, 2011 1:31pm
Ryan Sproull

I will forgive John Key his perpetual smug grin just this once.
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November 3, 2011 1:31pm
RightNow

Interesting, it was the evil emanating like pus from an infected wound that scared the crap out of me when Hulun was around !!
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November 3, 2011 1:35pm
Manolo

Goff, what a waste of space this contemptible man is!
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November 3, 2011 1:36pm
East Wellington Superhero

Would all the irrational John Key haters just fuck off. No one cares that you’re envious because he’s successful and you’re not, and that Key’s success pisses you off because it reminds you of all you’ve failed to achieve with your life.
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November 3, 2011 1:38pm
Black with a Vengeance

Evil ??? Clark is history RN…Get over it !!!

Key playing to the lowest common denominator is shameful…

…as a statesman he’s a great sideshow clown, as a prime minister he’s a joke
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November 3, 2011 1:38pm
East Wellington Superhero

JK is a winner. And everyone likes a winner. Except losers.
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November 3, 2011 1:41pm
Black with a Vengeance

Would all the irrational John Key haters just fuck off. No one cares that you’re envious because he’s successful and you’re not, and that Key’s success pisses you off because it reminds you of all you’ve failed to achieve with your life.

hahaha…sounds like you’re jealous of Bronagh there champ.
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November 3, 2011 1:41pm
trout

What you see is two worthy New Zealanders debating, in good humour, what might be best for the country. The ugly vitriol you guys pour out says more about you than them.
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November 3, 2011 1:41pm
Dazzaman

PWND…..On the evidence of that, there is no choice New Zealand.

Change to title of the vid to “Phil gets pwnd royally!” Hahaha
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November 3, 2011 1:42pm
Black with a Vengeance

Key wins smarmiest politician award…adoring crowds fall at his feet.

Key smiles and waves *yawn*

Reality : move along folks, nothing to see here
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November 3, 2011 1:45pm
BeaB

How can you hate John Key when all of us who have met him know what a genuinely nice guy he is – he passes the test of who you’d want to have a beer with. Imagine being bored to death by poor old Phil.

Surely in all the coaching sessions Phil could have memorised some of the numbers rather than just parroting the same old slogans. Or is this Cunliffe’s cunning plan?
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November 3, 2011 1:46pm
Black with a Vengeance

How can you hate John Key when all of us who have met him know what a genuinely nice guy he is – he passes the test of who you’d want to have a beer with.

Sure let’s vote for the highest office and charge him with balancing the countries books based on who we’d rather have a beer with…Jeez BeaB stick to gardening eh ?
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November 3, 2011 1:49pm
bereal

Black with a Vengeance
Anything that reallly irks you must be, “all good” as they say.

You really are a silly billy.

Re read your effort at 1.41 and 1.45

Childish, pathetic and purile.
An embarrasment.
Give up mate. You just haven’t got anything.
Have you.
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November 3, 2011 1:54pm
Black with a Vengeance

aw you got me there bereal…what a retort, what a comeback !!!

…i’m well and truly PWND
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November 3, 2011 2:00pm
East Wellington Superhero

@ BWAV

It makes me laugh that people really believe that John Key is nothing but a smile and wave man because it’s such a lazy and stupid conclusion. I suspect it’s levelled at Key because his critics struggle to find real criticisms. Key is one of the most engaging, talkative, and open senior politicians in NZ. But hey, if the Left and you want to keep underestimating John Key, I have no problem with that.
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November 3, 2011 2:00pm
hmmokrightitis

Funny isnt it – the left try and claim to want to raise the debate above personalities and focus on policy, but when held to account – how much will these promises cost per chance? – its yet more bullshit – constant JK attack mode. Its all about policy. Tui ad.

No it isnt, its pure desperation from labour trying desperately to gain traction and failing utterly.

And as for trying to take the moral high ground by claiming that becuase JK did this, he isnt statesmen like? Utter tosh. If goofy had smacked JK down like this – another tui ad moment, as if THAT would ever happen – the hypocritical left would be crowing long and hard.

Cant have it both ways BWAV, by all means hate him, hell, I dont miss Hulun and her rictus grin even slightly, the miserable sour cow that she was – hell, I munch carpet and Im not that grumpy – but dont expect any of us to believe that you wouldnt be crowing if goofy had got his big nuts in action.
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November 3, 2011 2:01pm
Manolo

BWAV, just remember: Three more years!
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November 3, 2011 2:04pm
Rick Rowling

Key wins smarmiest politician award

On a recount the award is taken back and given to “I am Harvard” Cunliffe.
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November 3, 2011 2:06pm
Black with a Vengeance

but dont expect any of us to believe that you wouldnt be crowing if goofy had got his big nuts in action.

believe what you like. I’ve dissed Goff’s silly big nad walk quite few times before…ACKSHULLY

people really believe that John Key is nothing but a smile and wave man

credit where it’s due, he is a great liar as well
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November 3, 2011 2:08pm
East Wellington Superhero

A friend of mine who just left Wellington circles told me earlier this week that Cunliffe didn’t know about the raising retirement age policy the morning it was announced – and that in morning he walking around saying Labour wouldn’t be lifting it. I wonder then how much team work is going into building the budget that Goff says he’s going to announce tomorrow.

Labour has no credibility.
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November 3, 2011 2:09pm
bereal

i predict
Black with a Vengeance will soon dissapear.
He lacks the intellect to produce any real argument.
He is rightly mocked by all and sundry.
He has nothing except sarcasm.
It will eventually dawn on even a nonce like him that he is a loser.
Unless of course he is a mashocist.
Well. Are you . Black with a Vengeance ?
( to paraphrase Clint Eastwood)
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November 3, 2011 2:10pm
Lance

So BWAV
Which Labour politician is a beacon of truth?
Helen Clark set the standard
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November 3, 2011 2:10pm
Black with a Vengeance

three more years, three more years, must remember three more years cos manolo said so.

Forget the lies, the broken promises, the rorts, the smarm ,the emebarrasing gaffes and vile gestures

apparently we’ve got 3 more years of that to put up with..yeah good on ya mate
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November 3, 2011 2:12pm
East Wellington Superhero

@ Rick Rowling

In a North & South article (or maybe it was the Listener) a few years back, Cunliffe said he had “Labour in his DNA”. I wonder how his genetics sit with his $2m Herne Bay house and private medical insurance that the naughty journalist also mentioned. He’s a class act.
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November 3, 2011 2:13pm
kiwi in america

The most telling moment of the clip was when Key asked Goff to tell everyone how much Labour’s CGT was supposed to raise in the first year. Goff couldn’t and Key COULD – it shows Key was well briefed on the detail…. of his opponents policy! That knowledge gave Key the confidence and ability to goad Goff and eventually play with him like a cat does with a mouse. On a certain level it was embarrasing to watch – that the leader of the Labour Party would be so under prepared. Clark would’ve known this and come back at Key – probably Cunliffe as well. He will be sharpening his knife for the caucus meeting on Tuesday 29th.

Nothwithstanding BWAV’s brave defence of his leader, baring some major National/Key gaff, this may well be seen as the turning point of the campaign = when Goff’s relatively robust start to the campaign unravelled under the electoral unpopularity inherent in a tax more and spend more fiscal policy.
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November 3, 2011 2:13pm
Black with a Vengeance

A friend of mine who just left Wellington circles told me earlier this week that BLAH BLAH BLAH

Oh yeah… well Piri Weepu skyped me this morning and said “Yo Black…What the fuck is up with that John Key fool ? Fuck he’s a dick and he doesn’t even know it.”

i just smiled and waved back at the screen.
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November 3, 2011 2:16pm
Lance

Oh dear
BWAV is off his meds

Explains it all
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November 3, 2011 2:18pm
slightlyrighty

Dear TVNZ & TV3.

This is how you run a LEADERS debate.
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November 3, 2011 2:20pm
Lance

The good news keeps on coming

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763639

Labour below 30%
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November 3, 2011 2:21pm
Lee01

@ Black

Sure let’s vote for the highest office and charge him with balancing the countries books based on who we’d rather have a beer with

I have a better idea. Lets vote for the person who is NOT going to put this country at further financial risk and into even more debt by going on a fiscally stupid spending binge.

On that issue, Key beats Goff easily.
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November 3, 2011 2:23pm
bereal

Poor old Black with a Vengaence
There is no one home there.
He just gets pittifuller and pittifuller.

Makes a bigger and biggerer fool of himself with every try.

His own team must cringe and beg him to STFU , but,

He just can’t help himself, the silly billy.

Just not capable of getting it.

Someone from his own team will take him aside and spell it out for him soon.
Then, goodbye , BWAV
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November 3, 2011 2:27pm
Lee01

From the Herald article:

Labour is on 29.1 per cent, the first time Labour has been in the 20s in the 12 years the Herald has been running DigiPoll surveys.

Very good news. Lets hope the Colmar poll tonight also shows a drop for Labour.

but until The Press town hall debate last night, Labour leader Phil Goff had been running a strong campaign according to many
commentators.

This has been a problem in the TV commentary. It seems to be dominated by leftists who are claiming that Goff has started strongly and done well in the debates. Pam Corkery (!!!) was on TV claiming he had easily won the first debate and that the text in poll showing Key had won was meaningless.

But I suspect they are just talking to themselves, and that what mainstream Kiwis think is very different.

Mr Key is preferred Preferred Prime Minister on 70.6 per cent, the same as last week, and support for Labour leader Phil Goff has slipped from 13.7 per cent last week to 11.7 this week.
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November 3, 2011 2:30pm
tom hunter

Although I might “like” John Key I don’t have much time for either he or his party’s inability to push forward right-wing arguments beyond fiddling at the margins.

However, the rending of garments by the likes of MNIJ and Pollywog (aka BWAV) and the flowing of their bitter, bitter tears are so sweet to me that even I can raise a smile at the prospect of JK and National winning this election.

Pity about the future though.
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November 3, 2011 2:39pm
Lee01

@ Tom

All the more reason to party vote ACT and hope they can stiffen Nationals spine.
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November 3, 2011 2:43pm
Elaycee

@Lance – thanks for the link.

REMINDER TO BWAV: Given your unbridled adoration of anything relating to Goof and his gaggle of gays, I suppose you’ll be right pissed when you see the latest poll results – one week into the election campaign:

National – UP to 54.2%

Labour – DOWN to 29.1%

Gween – Steady at 10.1% 🙁

UF – 0.5%

ACT – 0.9%

PETERS – Down to 1.7%. 😛

PREFERRED PRIME MINISTER: Key – 70.8% / Goof – Down to 11.7%. 🙂

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763639
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November 3, 2011 2:43pm
kiwi in america

Lee01
In the US most of the electorate know the MSM are spinning and shilling for Obama and the Dems and to some extent that realization is baked into the cake. The difference here is that there is Fox, Washington Times & Examiner, NY Post, Wall St Journal, talk back radio to equal the bias from the networks, NY Times, WaPo, NPR, PBS etc.

Almost all the TV, radio and print journos in NZ tilt Labour/Green and will pump up Goff at every opportunity. Middle NZ aint buying it.
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November 3, 2011 2:44pm
East Wellington Superhero

So what does the strategic National voter do now? Vote Act? I’m tempted to.
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November 3, 2011 2:45pm
Lee01

Also in the Herald poll:

the Colin Craig-led Conservative Party has featured in Party vote ratings for the first time, with 1.1 per cent.

Interesting. They would still have to win an electorate seat though. Not sure what I think of this party. I would probably agree with their ends but not their means on social issues.
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November 3, 2011 2:46pm
Lee01

@ EWS

So what does the strategic National voter do now? Vote Act? I’m tempted to.

Yes. Absolutely. I don’t always agree with ACT, and they are far away from my preference for a Traditionalist/Paleolibertarian party, but they are a current necessity and an important voice. National needs a party on its right flank to keep them on their toes and to keep pushing for more reform.
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November 3, 2011 2:50pm
tom hunter

ACT – yeah, it’s tempting to vote for them. The problem is that they’re so incoherent in recent years and Brash is so useless at the political game that I doubt they’d be much use at arguing new visions either. Just as an example, does anybody really think Brash would have done as well against Goofy as Key did?

As far as the rest of ACT are concerned I don’t know who they are apart from Banks, and although I don’t hate Banks, I also don’t think much of his political skills either after losing to nutter Len Brown. How a guy suffering an on-screen meltdown like Brown did could have even survived, let alone won the Auckland mayoralty is a testament to the uselessness of Banks and his team.

What to do? I figure I’ll just protect myself as best I can against the revenge of the Labs come 2014 or 2017.
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November 3, 2011 2:54pm
Black with a Vengeance

and the flowing of their bitter, bitter tears are so sweet to me that even I can raise a smile

…laughing at others misfortune, rejoicing at their misery. That’s abominable but it’s what i’ve come to expect from heartless and gutless national Key apologists.
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November 3, 2011 3:07pm
Manolo

… the more reason to party vote ACT and hope they can stiffen Nationals spine.

I do hope you’re right but that’s a big ask, considering National’s spine is very small and incredibly flexible.
Strategic voting would be the choice: ACT at party level, National, by far the lesser evil, in my electorate.
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November 3, 2011 3:12pm
Inventory2

FFS Black with a Vengeance; you come in here and throw around the invective, then you moan when someone retaliates. Why don’t you bugger off back to The Standard or Tumeke where you can hold hands with the dwindling numbers of died-in-the-wool Key-haters, and spare us your bitterness and anger.

Oh; don’t let the door smack your butt on the way out…
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November 3, 2011 3:12pm
East Wellington Superhero

@ Lee01

While I’m sure I’d agree on many/most issues with Colin Craig. I’m not comfortable with the CP. Nor am I a fan of identity parties. While I’m a person of faith, I don’t like Church and state mixing and there’s so much potential for a) politicians doing a deal with the CP and then boxing all Christians into the CP and saying “you stay there and don’t complain” viz UnitedFuture, and b) the secular media ripping into the CP and embarrassing them or CP embarrassing themselves and therefore all Christians. The CP may not be officially a Christian party but it is certainly perceived as one.

@ tom hunter

I really like Brash but don’t see him in cabinet ever. Maybe ACT needs three years in the wilderness to get fit. National should have enough votes to cover their bases in three weeks.
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November 3, 2011 3:12pm
East Wellington Superhero

@ BWAV

Yes, please leave.
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November 3, 2011 3:15pm
labrator

You really have to skip a lot of comments to even get a reasoned opinion in this thread. Signal to noise ratio low.
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November 3, 2011 3:17pm
MT_Tinman

I notice the bitter and twisted pollution of BWAV has increased on this blog at the same time as a certain communist nutter has been banned on another rightish-wing blog.

That this nutter is so bitter and twisted that the good guys of National, particularly their leader, are doing so well is a far greater highlight than watching the great and good Mr Key deal, once again, to his rather impoverished, vote and credibity wise, opponent.

I did think it was banned from here as well though.
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November 3, 2011 3:19pm
bereal

You can’t argue things logically with the likes of Black with a Vengeance or MNIJ
you need to drop down to their level and pretend to be a third former again.
Then, when you meet them on their own ground they are dead meat.
Then they might understand what you are saying but, they just can’t hack it.
All they really have is, “yeah but.” or nah nah, na nah na.
Pathetic. Infantile. But sadly, there it is.
Black with a Vengeance in particular is a no contest.
There is no one home there.
Just a silly billy.
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November 3, 2011 3:20pm
Roflcopter

I’ve found Phil’s spreadsheet!

http://bit.ly/uAlUmE

😀
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November 3, 2011 3:24pm
RightNow

ROFL Rofl. I’m sure poor Phil would gladly host the barbecue himself if someone else would just take the poisoned chalice off him.
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November 3, 2011 3:28pm
tankyman

After the last debate Mallard did a round up of all the new pieces that had goff a winner blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/11/01/round-up-of-leaders-debate-commentary-goff-by-nose

this time …… tumbleweeds and personality attacks, but nothing on the debate. I wonder why?
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November 3, 2011 3:30pm
Nookin

Taped conversation between Cunliffe and Mallard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulWXvzL6nuA
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November 3, 2011 3:33pm
Black with a Vengeance

Looks like i’ve got myself quite the wee fan club going here. Sorry if i don’t reply to you all individually but some just aren’t worthy.

Thinking back what Goff should have said was…I’ll show you the money, if you show me the jobs cos son, there ain’t none of those.
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November 3, 2011 3:36pm
Kimble

That’s abominable but it’s what i’ve come to expect from heartless and gutless national Key apologists.

Oh you poor dear, is reality not playing nice with you?

Lots of people like Key, think he is a capable leader, and you just hate it.

The difference between National apologists and Labour apologists? National doesnt give their mob much to apologise for, while Labour supporters never apologise for anything ever.
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November 3, 2011 3:36pm
Kimble

Thinking back what Goff should have said was…I’ll show you the money, if you show me the jobs cos son, there ain’t none of those.

So you think Goff should have taken the higher ground by admitting there is no money? Genius.

And you arent going to surprise many here by telling us Goff has no idea where jobs come from.
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November 3, 2011 3:39pm
Black with a Vengeance

Lots of people like Key, think he is a capable leader, and you just hate it.

In Hitler’s early days I’m sure most Germans thought the same of him and i don’t hate it that people think that. I’m just embarrassed that the average NZer is so gullible

I’m afraid in the long run history won’t smile kindly on Key.

[DPF: 20 demerits for Hitler comparison]
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November 3, 2011 3:40pm
Black with a Vengeance

So you think Goff should have taken the higher ground by admitting there is no money? Genius.

I think Goff should have batted the carnival cries of ‘show me the money’ away by focussing on where Key thinks these 170000 jobs he’s prediciting are gonna come from.

show me the jobs is what we should all be asking…don’t you think ?
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November 3, 2011 3:44pm
tom hunter

…laughing at others misfortune, rejoicing at their misery.

Laughing?

Laughing?

As a right-winger I don’t believe in collective actions so even as I said that I can raise a smile rather than laugh – it was aimed entirely at the individual “misfortune” and “misery” of you and MNIJ.

I never smile, let alone laugh, at people whose misery and misfortune is not of their own making.

By contrast Polly, your misfortune and misery are entirely self-inflicted, are politically and ideologically based, and centred on a blogsite thread – unlike the real misery of the world. Moreover they arise as a direct result of the fact that you have supported your hopes and dreams (cough) with nothing more than endless streams of mindless taunting and brainless barracking.

As such you deserve all the scathing mockery and laughter you get. I must say I’m surprised to see the whole Pasifikan superiority mask dropped and you revealed as simply another Labour/Left tool. I suppose you were trolling for racist comebacks with that stance but at least it made you different from the Standard grey functionaries. Now that does bring a smile to my face and even …. wait for it …

MUHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

(must get a mustache-twirling emoticon to go with that)

UPDATE: Ooooooo – and he’s Godwinned the thread.
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November 3, 2011 3:47pm
Lance

BWAV is dragging up……………….. Hitler

Fail

Godwins law in action
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November 3, 2011 3:54pm
Kimble

I think Goff should have batted the carnival cries of ‘show me the money’ away …

So Goff should have not answered the question? Well, he didnt, and now looks an incompetent fool for his troubles.

What you want is for the money question never to have been asked in the first place, and for the question of jobs to have taken its place.

But thats all just wishful thinking.
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November 3, 2011 3:57pm
BeaB

Black with a vengeance
Silly. It’s always the sign you are beaten when you have to trot out Hitler.

And about John Key for god’s sake with his family history. Have you no conscience at all?
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November 3, 2011 3:57pm
BeaB

And Mr Big Balls wants to run the country?

Goff today admitted he was beaten by Key over aspects of the economy in the head to head debate last night.
”Key was able to invent a lie, which was wrong, but to invent it without our ability to put on the table our actual figures,” Goff said.
”We have done those figures, we’re just completing them now as we’ve finalised the last of our policies.”
Goff said he had expected the attack from Key, but it was important the party did it right.
”You put your costings out when you’ve finalised your policies,” he said.
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November 3, 2011 4:04pm
dime

Black with a vengeance needs a week off me thinks.

Hes gone from thread jacking to outright spamming.

Now a hitler reference?

talk about taking advantage of DPF’s good nature. Your behavior would be unacceptable at the standard. Why try that shit here? youre not debating policy. just personal attack after personal attack. basically fuck off.

oh yeah – im glad you’re poor
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November 3, 2011 4:09pm
Black with a Vengeance

see what i did there ?…no probably not

ACKSHULLY Tom, i meant that laughing thing to be sarcastic but couldn’t help overbaiting the end bit cos i’m neither misfortunate nor miserable.

As for polynization, thats one game i’m playing long on and for keeps. Long after this election blows over and Key bankrupts us surely as Goff would, we as Pasifikans will be dominating the landscape with a system based on traditonal models and values.

if that means we have to eat a few of you to survive…well such is life.

so ummm yeah…about these jobs then ? SHOW ME THEM NOW !!!
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November 3, 2011 4:09pm
Black with a Vengeance

Black with a vengeance needs a week off me thinks.

Hes gone from thread jacking to outright spamming.

Now a hitler reference?

talk about taking advantage of DPF’s good nature. Your behavior would be unacceptable at the standard. Why try that shit here? youre not debating policy. just personal attack after personal attack. basically fuck off.

oh yeah – im glad you’re poor

hmmm…so that ‘s your policy analysis and contribution to the thread then eh..heh

OK which of those finer points in your post would you like me to debate you on ?
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November 3, 2011 4:12pm
bereal

Waste of time to mention Godwins law to BlackWAV. even though he just proved it.
He would lack the wit to understand it.
Actually lacks any wit whatsoever. The silly billy.

BeaB. Thankyou for not increasing my demerit score when you did have the chance, and good cause.
Hope that hatchet is buried.
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November 3, 2011 4:17pm
tom hunter

…. but couldn’t help overbaiting the end bit cos i’m neither misfortunate nor miserable …

Sure, sure, Polly. I’ve seen that part of playground games too.

But hey, maybe I’ll call on the cool Jewish TV guy for a shorter and more appropriate response to “misery” and “misfortune”:

Somebody call the Waaaahmbulance!

Which has the advantage of being both appropriate for your level of debate and also emblematic of the hopeless leader of the Labour party.
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November 3, 2011 4:19pm
dime

“hmmm…so that ‘s your policy analysis and contribution to the thread then eh..heh”

Well considering youve made none in 16 posts…

the point of my post was to highlight that there is an idiot spammer loose on kiwiblog and its just BORING. you dont get people upset, you dont make people think, you dont make people laugh, youre just BORING.

Hopefully DPF will add to your demerits and we will be rid of you.
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November 3, 2011 4:23pm
tom hunter

Now, now Dime.

I think we should use the fact that someone with such a deep understanding of Pasifikan culture is here with us, to explain exactly why John Key’s mana is so much greater after this debate than it was before.

I mean it’s obviously about more just Key winning the detail of the debates. Clearly John’s mana has risen greatly and Phil’s has fallen as a result – and I think Pollywog could explain why.
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November 3, 2011 4:32pm
Black with a Vengeance

SHOW ME THE JOBS !!!

Key’s mana just took a dive going by DPF’s debate highlights cos those cheap, shrill vaudeville antics are not mana enhancing. They’re embarrassing and demean the office and title of prime minister

and ooh you’re such a LIAR Dime…grow up
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November 3, 2011 4:41pm
slightlyrighty

BWaV

Governments do not create jobs. Jobs are a by-product of a growing economy. An economy doesn’t grow when there is a 17 billion dollar hole which can only be funded by borrowing, which would be detrimental to the economy, or by higher taxes, which would take money out of the economy, which would cost jobs as samll to medium businesses fold.
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November 3, 2011 4:58pm
dime

just watched the clip. JK explains things so well. Goofballs strategy from now needs to be to shout him down so JK doesnt get to finish.

the fact the crowd is openly mocking goofball shows where he is at as a leader.

JK is also pretty dam quick. Its a shame TV1’s format is so shit.
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November 3, 2011 5:05pm
Black with a Vengeance

slightyrighty

Jobs aren’t funded by giving taxcuts to the already well to do and increasing GST on the rest either, despite what Key and English have said. All it’s done is leave us with a billion dollar year shortfall in the tax take which English has had to borrow 300mil a week for to cover.

Great, if you’re gonna scrutinse Labours policies but not at the expense of facing the hard truth about the failure of Key and English to promote growth and jobs while increasing borrowing themselves.

The economy will grow when people stop wanting to be slumlords investing in property and grow some balls to start up or invest in business and not by selling state assets to give Kiwi mums and dads something to invest in either. As you may not have noticed, but the average kiwi mum and dad is broke as a muthfucka what with all the finance companies falling over and the gov’t bending over backwards to bail out the speculators who bankrolled them.

So I hope you’re not relying on these well to do former high flying finance companies directors being the captains of industry to pull us out of recession are you ? and about these jobs, are we gonna see 46 000 people out there building a national cycleway anytime soon ?
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November 3, 2011 5:14pm
side show bob

I thought the left were into their caring and sharing. Goofy is a dribbling socialist two bob that should have been put out of his misery years ago. How can his so called mates stand around and let Goofy make a total dick of himself everyday, shit if the bugger was a cow he would have got a lead aspirin months ago, so sad.
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November 3, 2011 5:17pm
tom hunter

So let’s see:
– no apparent ability with economics, business and numbers
– assertions backed by no argument
– bluster and obfuscation when faced with simple questions
– constant implications about then other side being LIARS
– veering between ugly triumphalism when winning and cringing evasion when losing
– …

Hang on. Am I assessing Phil Goff or BWAV’s debating skills?

Oh right – it’s both. As goes the voters so goes the leader.
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November 3, 2011 5:23pm
bereal

what a joke.
SHOW ME THE JOBS !!!
we saw the jobs when your lot had the reigns.
they were all in the ‘public service’ in Helen and Margarets masterplan to create a critical mass
of subservient voters who depended on them for their livelhood.
Can you or any of your lot put up a positive suggestion about anything ?
Where will you create the jobs, Noddy?
There is only one way and thats to grow the economy. Not the government.
You have been found out.
Suck it up.
Get a job, risk something (doesn’t bear thinking about with your mindset) and be part of a growing economy.
Just for the sake of your children try and be part of a practical solution.
Get over that , its not fair, its unjust, others are doing well, and look at poor me. Therefore:
I deserve more of your money.
We are all born equal but after that you need to compete.
Sadly you will never get it , Black with a Vengeance.
Hope your children do. But with an influence like you they are doomed to expect it all to be gifted to them and
therefore a life at the bottom.
Just like you.
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November 3, 2011 5:30pm
Black with a Vengeance

As goes the voters so goes the leader.

True, so don’t be like Key. Deflect and distract with cheap insults and bullshit bullet points. Blaming past governments for you failings. Break the stereotype.

Go on Tom since you’re the expert. Tell us where those jobs are gonna come from ?
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November 3, 2011 5:38pm
tom hunter

I did laugh at this BWAV comment about Goff from the other “debate” thread:

…. we’ve always adopted whitey into the culture as tokens of exchange, but once they outlive their usefulness well ….

But when I saw his one in this this thread:

… if that means we have to eat a few of you to survive…well such is life.

I suddenly realised what Phil Goff’s actual fate will be following this election.

Almost makes me want to support him in the next debates with John Key. On the other hand perhaps Phil’s debate-support team should just put BWAV in the front row and have him glare at Phil the whole time. Obviously Phil needs a better incentive than a mere election win.
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November 3, 2011 5:42pm
dime

“All it’s done is leave us with a billion dollar year shortfall in the tax take which English has had to borrow 300mil a week for to cover.”

So he’s borrowing 300 million a week to cover a billion dollars? seems excessive.

“The economy will grow when people stop wanting to be slumlords investing in property”

agree

“and grow some balls to start up or invest in business”

at which point the left will treat you like dirt because they think you rip off your employees and are basically a money tree to be robbed.

“and not by selling state assets to give Kiwi mums and dads something to invest in either.”

You mean selling 49% of some assets.

“As you may not have noticed, but the average kiwi mum and dad is broke as a muthfucka what with all the finance companies falling over and the gov’t bending over backwards to bail out the speculators who bankrolled them.”

So within one sentence youre saying that giving people something to invest in is the wrong thing to do, but them lament that everyone is broke because they invested in finance companies… because there were fuck all other options.. like nice high yield utilities.
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November 3, 2011 5:44pm
Black with a Vengeance

heh…can’t do it eh Tom ? didn’t think so.

So he’s borrowing 300 million a week to cover a billion dollars? seems excessive.

Take it up with English, but hey, when the borrowings good, may as well borrow some for the rainy days as well eh ?

So within one sentence youre saying that giving people something to invest in is the wrong thing to do, but them lament that everyone is broke because they invested in finance companies…

Giving people the wrong thing to invest in should not be the gov’ts priority nor should we be distracted by the shrill warblings of Key’s glib ‘show me the money’ line.

SHOW ME THE JOBS !
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November 3, 2011 5:55pm
tom hunter

BWAV

Awwwww.

Dime, slightlyrighty and others here have tried to explain how governments don’t create jobs.

Given that their explanations have been met with incomprehension on your part – plus the usual raucous CAPS yelling – it seems a waste of my time to try and explain it to you again.
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November 3, 2011 6:07pm
NX

Anyone know where I can watch, or listen to the full debate online…?

cheers.
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November 3, 2011 6:34pm
tom hunter

Look at the link in DPF’s original thread-starter for the link the Dimpost.
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November 3, 2011 6:41pm
Nookin

No point in showing BWAV a job. He wouldn’t know what to do with one.
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November 3, 2011 6:49pm
bereal

of course it sticks out like dogs balls,
philu,
is Black with a Vengaence without the ………………….. eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a crafty POS
Same old, same old
Deja vue all over again
He can’t stop.
It’s his whole sick life.
…eh………..
You show me the jobs noddy…………. Duh………….
try engaging with anybody other than scoffing then asking a question
same old shallow act. Can’t do it………..
……eh………..
…contd,,,,,,,,,,,,
Ever answered any question other with asking another question ?
Try answering this one …………
You show me the jobs ………………..
Duh……
….eh…………….
wor…………
….contd……………
Pathetic………………eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Laughable……………….duh……….eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
contd…………………
YOU SHOW ME THE JOBS. Moron.
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November 3, 2011 7:11pm
burt

Hey Goff I have a spreadsheet too, mine says that Labour always has a surplus, creates 180,000 new jobs every month and that CGT has been hauling in the cash sine 1907 – perhaps you would like to borrow my highly credible made up numbers to prove to Key that there are people with less idea about economic than the brains trust of the Labour party.
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November 3, 2011 7:16pm
scrubone

Wow Goff just had the crowd eating out of his hand.

Even when he coudn’t get a word in edgewise he got a cheer!
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November 3, 2011 7:18pm
Black with a Vengeance

Given that their explanations have been met with incomprehension on your part – plus the usual raucous CAPS yelling – it seems a waste of my time to try and explain it to you again.

Of course govt’s create jobs, by awarding contracts and providing opportunities. Don’t try and bullshit me. Just like they can uncreate jobs with the shitloads they’ve cut out of the public sector and not awarding contracts to Kiwi businesses.

Quit copping out with the lame excuses Tom.

SHOW ME THE JOBS !!!

No point in showing BWAV a job. He wouldn’t know what to do with one.

Sure i would. I’d sub it out to a youth or foreigner for half as much, clip the ticket, cream the profit and laze around getting fat.
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November 3, 2011 7:18pm
bereal

OK
G’nite all.
Good luck to your families.

i’ll leave it up to others to try and educate ‘Black with a Vengeance’ but……

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
As above to prove my point.
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November 3, 2011 7:20pm
scrubone

In Hitler’s early days I’m sure most Germans thought the same of him and i don’t hate it that people think that. I’m just embarrassed that the average NZer is so gullible

No, that’s a valid point. A lot of NZers are very upset at Key’s book promoting ethnic cleansing, and his taking control over all sectors of society.
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November 3, 2011 7:23pm
scrubone

Of course govt’s create jobs, by awarding contracts and providing opportunities.
…which takes revenue from the profit making parts of the economy.

Don’t try and bullshit me. Just like they can uncreate jobs with the shitloads they’ve cut out of the public sector and not awarding contracts to Kiwi businesses.

And if every NZ’er worked for the public service? Woudn’t that be full employment?

No, every government job takes money out of the economy. Worse, those people have to find something to do which invariably involves making productive people do work filling out pointless forms – which has very little benefit for anyone.
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November 3, 2011 7:28pm
tom hunter

Of course govt’s create jobs, by awarding contracts and providing opportunities.

Hahahahahahah.

Like I said – incomprehension.

Quick questiion for you: where does the government ultimately source the money for “awarding contracts” and “providing opportunities”? Don’t answer with borrowing from the Chinese or credit creation, because even those debt cannot (or should not) be serviced with more debt or more credit creation – as Obambi has discovered with five trillion in new debt to squeeze out a few hundred billion in GDP size compared to 2008. That’s actually wealth destruction.

I’ll give you another hint: governments can contribute to job creation – just not in the way you think – and more often those methods are deployed so badly that they actually detract from job creation.

Today’s lesson for BWAV has been brought to you by the words private and sector
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November 3, 2011 7:28pm
Pauleastbay

Black
This is the year 2011 for the rest of us.

The days of the government handing out big contracts to three or four companies ended I believe in about 1984, shortly after the unions fucked projects like the Mangere bridge etc etc.

Most jobs I know of are created by small to medium business’s that increase their profile to the extent that they have insufficent staff to complete the work on hand. That is their plan if they are not taxed to fuckery and have to spend the money they would have on staff on government imposed taxes.

Remember 2011 not 1961
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November 3, 2011 7:30pm
Black with a Vengeance

awww come back bereal…i know all you wanted was a throwaway line from me to validate your pathetic existence here !!!
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November 3, 2011 7:32pm
kiwi in america

NX
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/video/

BWAV
You are clueless as to what it takes to create an environment for growth. Blaming Key for the finance company failures – you’re swinging at the wrong target. Labour had 9 years to modify the regulatory environment to protect investors and they did sweet F A – actually they did more than SFA, they actually made things worse. Clark’s foolish last minute extension of the deposit guarantee from the trading banks to the large finance companies like SCF virtually guaranteed their failure. If the taxpayer is backing your deposit why stick to 5% with WEstpac when SCF is offering 8%. SCF had a billion in new investments courtesy of Labour’s policy and guess where it got loaned – yep not enough rural borrowers to soak up that new money so you guessed it – risky property development in Auckland and Queenstown – completely not their area of expertise.

Lets run through the list of Labour’s job and wealth creation killing policies:
* Their ETS imposed an additional $1 billion in carbon taxes on industry – National’s ETS did away with that burden BUT Labour wants to tax farmers right now by dragging them into the ETS whilst National will allow them time to find ways to remediate their emissions.
* Abolishing the 90 day standdown – this provision takes away some of the risk of a new hire and 100’s of companies have taken on employees under this scheme that they likely wouldn’t have – Labour and the unions scare tactics proved to be false – Labour would abolish it and with it the easy new hires that went with it.
* Forcing industry wide bargaining – that little number straight from the desk of the CTU would’ve made sure the Australoan union thugs’ attemped boycott on The Hobbit would’ve suceeded – thats a couple of 1000’s jobs that would’ve walked offshore had Labour’s policy been in force.
* Compulsory Kiwisaver – laudable in principle – in practice a tax on small businesses forced to make contributions for employees that they likely cant afford – the small business proprietors’ solution – hire fewer new workers and make do with what you’ve got.
* The RMA – this Act of Parliament is an enormous drag on business and entreprenuership. Labour’s Local Government reforms came in just in time to add $200k in additional council fees and levies on a property development I did before I moved to the US – all thanks to the socialist urge to impose social engineering functions on councils – that number alone took an axe to our profitablity and made the whole project hardly worth the time and effort. Frankly had I known these costs before commencing I might not have underaken the project and so millions of dollars of project dollars to builders, architects etc might not have been spent. You see BWAV these are the day to day decisions that entrepreneurs must make to adjust to the ever increasing burden imposed by left leaning governments. I’ve taken my drive, energy and wealth creating skills to another tax juristiction where it is easier to make money and so there is no GST or PAYE or company tax paid by my enterprise to the NZ Treasury any more. National’s reforms are helping reduce this regulatory burden.
* The CGT – how many hard working low/middle income couples will leave their only asset, their family home, to their kids. When Mum and Dad lived in it, it would be exempt from CGT. Labour’s policy puts a 15% tax on the capital gain that the parents struggled all their lives to build but when the time comes to leave that financial legacy to the kids after the last parent dies, themselves probably struggling with a mortgage and family, they are deprived of 15% so that people like philu can continue to bludge off the state with no restrictions (Labour’s status quo).
* Raising the minimum wage to $15 – another job killer and proven to be so by the experience of the US and other countries – surely the rise of youth uneployment in NZ well above the rise of adult unemployment since the GFC after the abolition of youth rates by Labour has taught us the folly of Goff’s policy. Wealth is not legislated by minimum wage laws, it is created by growing the economic pie and ensuring companies and workers are more productive and thus profitable and so able to keep good workers by performance driven pay rises.
* $14 billion of additional debt that Labour will accumulate for all its promises can not all be funded by job killling taxes (which invariably raise less than predicted due to avoidance measures) – the rest will have to be borrowed. The longer our debt remains high the longer our credit rating will stay at AA and so all NZers holding mortgages will get to pay several hundred dollars a year more because the political risk premium of any debt to the NZ economy is factored in because of a tax and spend Labour government. Labour’s longer and larger debt is another tax on all NZers via higher interest rates. National’s priority to retire debt has kept interest rates and mortgage costs to middle NZ lower than would be the case.

The list goes on and on. There is much more National can do. But Labour I’m sorry doesnt have a clue. The left thinks that business, farmers, employers, ‘the wealthy’ are just mugs to be fleeced and that all these taxes, levies and impositions to fund bloated bureauracies and open ended welfare entitlements can be imposed without cost.
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November 3, 2011 7:33pm
Black with a Vengeance

semantics Tom…but since you seem to want to avoid the question or provide an answer maybe you can ask your mate Key or Basher Bennett ?

SHOW ME THE JOBS !!!
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November 3, 2011 7:38pm
tom hunter

Good grief KIA. Do you actually expect poor old BlackWithNoClue to read all that – and then think about it? I mean kudos for effort but I think your expectations are a bit high.

He’s got assertions to make, slogans to shout, baiting and and trolling to perform, and Pasifikkkan Cultural takeovers to plot. Not to mention getting himself buffed and oiled, ready to sit down and watch New Zealand’s Top Model.
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November 3, 2011 7:41pm
Lance

I would suggest we stop feeding the troll BWAV
It lives in a logic free hate filled zone
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November 3, 2011 7:46pm

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