General Debate 9 November 2011

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Michaels

I haven’t seen the blogmobile come out of retirement.
Is it going to?

[DPF: No. Combination of no time and no donor]
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November 9, 2011 8:02am
Rick Rowling

Welcome to … Statistics New Zealand … the latest member of the VRWNLLW conspiracy!
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November 9, 2011 8:23am
s.russell

Stuff reports:

Italy’s Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has promised to resign….

Wonderful news! Berlusconi is a complete disgrace.
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November 9, 2011 8:26am
Rick Rowling

In a surprise move this morning, the Labour party campaigned this morning on spending more money.
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November 9, 2011 8:26am
Manolo

A terrorist threat: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/149544#.TrmDnrLN5Bm
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November 9, 2011 8:32am
James Stephenson

Silvio Berlusconi has promised to resign…

So, are France and Germany going to install a puppet regime there as well?
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November 9, 2011 8:39am
publicwatchdog

PROTEST OUTSIDE THE FINANCE MARKETS AUTHORITY (FMA) – SUPPORTING THE CALL FOR CRIMINAL CHARGES TO BE LAID AGAINST DON BRASH AND JOHN BANKS – FORMER DIRECTORS OF HULJICH WEALTH MANAGEMENT (NZ) LIMITED.

Yesterday, Tuesday 8 November 2011, as an Independent Candidate for Epsom, I officially launched my election campaign when I formally requested that the Finance Markets Authority (FMA) initiate criminal proceedings against Don Brash and John Banks for misleading investors when former Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd.

The KEY question is – how come ACT’s ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ doesn’t appear to apply to ACT’s Leader Don Brash, and the ACT candidate for Epsom – John Banks?

How come Don Brash and John Banks weren’t equally charged under the Securities Act 1978, along with former fellow Director of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Limited, Peter Huljich?

They were all equally Directors, and equally signed a Registered Prospectus for the ‘Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme’ dated 18 September 2009, which had untrue statements about the performance of the Huljich Kiwisaver Funds to other Kiwisaver funds from the start of Kiwisaver to 9 September 2009.

Therefore, under the Securities Act 1978 s58 (3), an offence was arguably equally committed by all three Directors.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1978/0103/latest/DLM29406.html?search=ts_act_Securities+Act+1978_resel&p=1#DLM29406

58 Criminal liability for misstatement in advertisement or registered prospectus

(3) Subject to subsection (4) of this section, where a registered prospectus that includes an untrue statement is distributed, every person who signed the prospectus, or on whose behalf the registered prospectus was signed for the purposes of section 41(1)(b) of this Act, commits an offence.

(4) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (3) of this section if the person proves either that the statement was immaterial or that he or she had reasonable grounds to believe, and did, up to the time of the distribution of the prospectus, believe that the statement was true.

(5) Every person who commits an offence against this section is liable—
(a) on conviction on indictment to—
(i) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years; or
(ii) a fine not exceeding $300,000 and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day or part of a day during which the offence is continued; or

(b) on summary conviction to—
(i) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months; or
(ii) a fine not exceeding $300,000 and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day or part of a day during which the offence is continued.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

I personally delivered a signed copy of a letter, forwarded to the CEO of the FINANCE MARKETS AUTHORITY (FMA), Sean Hughes.

My ‘OPEN LETTER/ REQUEST’ to the CEO of the Finance Markets Authority, Sean Hughes, stated:

“So – why were Donald Thomas Brash and John Archibald Banks, as fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Limited, who signed the same Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme ‘Registered Prospectus’, dated 18 September 2009 as Peter Karl Christopher Huljich, not equally charged, particularly given that it was in their supposedly astute business acumen, that the investing public were led to believe that they could have confidence?

Were Donald Thomas Brash, former Leader of the National Party and John Archibald Banks, former National Government Minister (of Police and Local Government), effectively protected from prosecution because of their political connections at the highest levels?

Because, quite frankly, in my considered opinion, that’s how it appears.

I look forward to your confirmation, in writing, within 7 days, that the same charges that were laid against Peter Karl Christopher Huljich by the former Securities Commission will be laid against Donald Thomas Brash and John Archibald Banks.

‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’?

Or not?”

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

I note that since 2006, there have been some 64 finance industry collapses in New Zealand – ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Singapore and Denmark, according to the 2010 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’.

ACT’s ‘three strikes and out’ doesn’t apply to ‘white collar’ crime.
No surprises there.

I look forward to taking my campaign against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation) and ‘corporate welfare’ to the streets of Epsom – in order to help citizens to cast an informed vote.

It appears that mainstream corporate media is unwilling to help publicise the issues that I am raising, although they have been kept fully informed of developments.

Just seems to help confirm my rather cynical observation that in our so-called ‘democracy’ – we tend to get the Government that the majority of big business want us to have, and this is achieved by corporate media manipulation, including pre-election ‘polling’?

Thank you David, for giving me the opportunity to put a ‘side of the story’ that no one else is telling.

Penny Bright
Independent Candidate for Epsom

“Anti-corruption campaigner”.
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
Attendee: Transparency International’s 14th IACC 2010
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November 9, 2011 8:49am
Scott Chris

Man Volunteers To Become A Mummy:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-world/2011/10/18/mummifying-alan-taxi-driver-alan-billis-from-torquay-made-into-a-mummy-like-tutankhamun-after-volunteering-his-body-115875-23496068/
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November 9, 2011 8:51am
KiwiGreg

Berlusconi will probably end up in jail if he resigns so I cant see him going easily. Maybe there will be a deal
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November 9, 2011 8:51am
Murray

“Scott Chris (2,595) Says:
November 9th, 2011 at 8:51 am

Man Volunteers To Become A Mummy:”

We’ll miss you Fail Scott (he lied casually).
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November 9, 2011 8:57am
Tauhei Notts

The Greens have said that the administration costs of Kiwisaver are the killer.
I only have $8661.95 in my Kiwisaver account.
Last month’s Management Fee was $7.27.
Last month’s Accrued Tax was, get this, $49.13.
As a Green Party acolyte I think we should have lots more taxes so that the margin between management fees and tax can expand.
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November 9, 2011 9:29am
Tauhei Notts

Cent Dull at 8.49 a.m.
Those fraudsters did not take money out of the Fund.
They put money into the Fund!
A fact that Cent Dull will have trouble comprehending.
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November 9, 2011 9:32am
KH

National – when it does the ‘asset sales’ will reserve sale in part to kiwi Mum & Dad investors.
Thats good. And JK says it himself.
But if you think that good — it would also be consistent to restrict any ownership to New Zealander’s and NZ entities only. eg Kiwisaver funds and Iwi etc.
I don’t see the Government needs to own power companies. We do need to control our own stuff however. They are strategic.
Mind you ‘strategic’ would also mean the banks. ho ho.
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November 9, 2011 9:37am
backster

Another tragic case where the Judge favoured the civil rights of the criminal over the safety of the victim.http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/hillcrest-murder-accused-bail-report-4512940
I wonder if the poor kid even knew he had been granted bail in the face of strong Police Opposition.
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November 9, 2011 9:48am
KiwiGreg

Looks like I was wrong – seems Berlusconi will resign….wonders never cease.
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November 9, 2011 9:52am
Scott Chris

Statistisc New Zealand Accused Of Political Bias:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5932813/Stats-NZ-anger-at-Labours-bias-claim

Interesting story, and I think Twyford has a good point.

Personally I find the Stats NZ website infuriatingly clunky and difficult to navigate. Spare me the fucking jazz and just gimme the freakin’ facts already.

It’s nearly as bad as the Inland Revenue site.
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November 9, 2011 9:55am
tvb

Berlusconi has given Italy stable government and he is quite sound on international security.
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November 9, 2011 10:12am
dime

Looks like there is a small coalition building up to take out Irans nuclear threat.

Lots of reports saying Iran will be nuclear capable very soon, if they arent already.

Im reading the Italians have been flying training missions with the Israelis. The Germans are also getting their f16’s and tornados ready.

A report said the yanks had delivered some bunker busting giant ass bombs to israel in september.

i reckon its going to happen and Obama will do his best to distance himself from it. Cant be seen to support Israel in election year!
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November 9, 2011 10:33am
Brian Smaller

Italy, like most Western countries, is mired in debt largely as a result of decades of ‘entitlement’ spending. So Silvio goes and who replaces him? Probably another big spending socialist and the collapse will just be hurried along a bit. Germany looks like it will get it’s reich without invading anyone.
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November 9, 2011 10:34am
KiwiGreg

@ tvb at what price stability – his form of crony capitalism and imbedded corruption is a helluva price for “stability”, particularly if that stability means a failure to reform.

@ brian oddly Berlusconi was supposed to be a right winger….
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November 9, 2011 10:39am
Longknives

Loving this quote-

“Somewhere in heaven Howard Cosell is yelling ” Down goes Frazier!” for the last time… And yet, there’s Joe getting up & still coming forward….”
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November 9, 2011 11:09am
Fletch

I see that Navy Seal team 6 (who killed Osama Bin Laden) have spoken out, slamming Obama, saying that the news of the kill was released too soon and gave other operatives a chance to scurry for cover –

US NAVY Seals have revealed for the first time that they killed Osama Bin Laden within 90 seconds of entering his fortress-like home in Pakistan.

The men who killed the al-Qaeda chief have decided to speak out because they are tired of their “shabby treatment” by politicians who claim they were on a “kill mission”.

They insisted there was no lengthy gun-fight in the compound and claimed they would have captured Bin Laden if he had surrendered, The Sunday Times in the UK reports (behind a paywall).

They were not on a “kill mission”, they said, and fired only 12 bullets in the entire operation.

The details of the mission, which was codenamed Operation Neptune’s Spear, are revealed in a book by the Seals’ former commander, Chuck Pfarrer.

“I’ve been a Seal for 30 years and I never heard the words ‘kill mission’. It’s a fantasy word. If it was a kill mission you don’t need Seal Team 6; you need a box of hand grenades.”

He said the men were angry with President Barack Obama for announcing Bin Laden’s death on TV just hours after they completed the mission on May 1.

“There isn’t a politician in the world who could resist trying to take credit for getting Bin Laden but it devalued the ‘intel’ and gave time for every other Al-Qaeda leader to scurry to another bolthole,” he said.

“The men who did this and their valorous act deserve better. It’s a pretty shabby way to treat these guys.”

Pfarrer’s books also reveals that the Seals’ nickname for Bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri were Bert and Ernie, after the two Muppets in Sesame Street.

More – http://bit.ly/ul208Y
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November 9, 2011 11:14am
James Stephenson

Trev’s up for Teh Harold’s live chat in 15 mins: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10764781

Have I got time to pop out for popcorn?
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November 9, 2011 11:32am
RightNow

Occupy camps suffering from lawlessness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gGFeJ6gmJAE#!
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November 9, 2011 11:35am
rouppe

Police refuse to evict Dunedin Occupy protesters.

What the….. So the Police won’t enforce a legal tresspass notice. But I bet they’d have something to say if the council hired provate security to move the protesters out
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November 9, 2011 11:38am
Rick Rowling

Penny – thanks for the typically brief and concise thread comment.

*massages scroll-wheel finger
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November 9, 2011 11:47am
James Stephenson

*massages scroll-wheel finger

//li[cite[contains(.,’publicwatchdog’)]]
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November 9, 2011 11:50am
Manolo

Shame on the politically-correct and emasculated NZ Police for refusing this mob of malingerers, malcontents, no-hopers and bludgers.
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November 9, 2011 11:57am
RightNow

Trevor Mallard on Live Chat has a little Freudian slip. When asked about parents on the DPB he replied “Not many people choose to live on the DPF”.
Kiwiblog must really get under his skin.
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November 9, 2011 12:56pm
KevinH

It’s plainly obvious that the Occupy Dunedin protestors are spoiling for a fight and the Police are wisely playing it safe for the moment. The minute those people step out of line then it will be all on.
P.S. Who reads Penny’s comments anyway?
Also ,D.G., did you get a bruise headbutting the cam?
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November 9, 2011 1:07pm
big bruv

Dime

Don’t be so quick to suggest that B Hussein Messiah Obama would distance himself from a ‘preemptive’ strike on Iran’s nuclear capabilities.

Remember the Yanks have an election next year, nothing plays stronger to middle America than national defence.

I suspect Obama will order the bombing at the most opportune time to lift his poll ratings.
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November 9, 2011 1:25pm
Black with a Vengeance

Paying the social cost.

Distant relative’s visit becomes a nightmare

A woman accused of robbing a Pahiatua man in his home had previously visited the victim with her mum for cups of tea.

Evan Cornforth, 65, was alone at his home about 7pm on Saturday when a woman and two men allegedly entered the house.

Tina Reiri appeared in Palmerston North District Court yesterday. The unemployed 20-year-old Pahiatua woman entered no plea on an aggravated robbery charge and was remanded in custody until next Wednesday.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5934909/Distant-relatives-visit-becomes-a-nightmare

SHOW US THE JOBS

…and maybe the underclass wouldn’t resort to preying on their own. Today the underclass tomorow

MAY BE YOU ?
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November 9, 2011 2:15pm
Bevan

Maybe if she moved from Pahiatua to say Wellington then she may have a better chance of finding a job.
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November 9, 2011 2:20pm
Lindsay Addie

The current poll on the NZ Herald website asking who is the preferred next leader of Labour. A leader named “Somebody Else” is winning by a country mile!!
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November 9, 2011 2:20pm
Lee01

@BWAV

SHOW US THE JOBS

…and maybe the underclass wouldn’t resort to preying on their own. Today the underclass tomorow

MAY BE YOU ?

People do not commit such crimes for any other reason than that they lack a strong sense of right and wrong. Many people who lived through the Great Depression managed to do so without commiting crimes. Why? VALUES.

Many people in our liberal cesspool of a society lack moral values, and far too many Maori think they have a right to other peoples money. It’s not poverty, its values that is the problem.

Perhaps if more Maori youth stopped listening to the filthy vile mindless shit called “rap” and “hip hop”, they would be less inclined to behave like animals.

SHOW ME THE VALUES.
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November 9, 2011 2:33pm
Manolo

The likes of Tina Reiri will be underclass and criminals regardless of the circumstances. Unable to do anything useful with their lives, unable to study and improve, this despicable woman and people of her ilk will always resort to crime.
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November 9, 2011 2:36pm
KiwiGreg

Dont you fools understand. There was no crime under labour and if only we could find it in our hearts to give all beneficiaries $10 a week (or $70 if they go out and breed) then there will be no crime again. It’s THAT simple!!
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November 9, 2011 2:39pm
Scott Chris

Black with a Vengeance says:- “the underclass wouldn’t resort to preying on their own”

Nah, people who steal from the vulnerable are assholes, be they rich or poor.

Only a starving person has the moral right to steal and even then, only from those who have more than enough to eat.

No one is starving in this country.
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November 9, 2011 2:52pm
KH

The upsurge in Kiwisaver comment in the main stream media is interesting. Most recently on provider fees.
When Kiwisaver started it was said that people would start to take an interest once there was a little money there.
And there Kiwisaver would generate a general increase in interest from the general public in investment issues.
Average balance is around now $7000.00 apparently
The comment last week was that people take interest “once the investment gets to around the value of a used car.”
Sounds right. Exactly what seems to be happening. It’s good.
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November 9, 2011 3:22pm
Lee01

Amusing look at the Occupy “movements” hypocrisy.

http://s1-03.twitpicproxy.com/photos/large/424781892.png
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November 9, 2011 3:23pm
KH

There is no honour amongst thieves. The underclass prey mostly on their own. Can’t be bothered walking over the the next suburb.
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November 9, 2011 3:24pm
Black with a Vengeance

just saying

expect to see more of that shit rather than less and especially under a National gov’t cos they don’t give a shit about the poor, the needy, the unfortunate, the young, the jobless, the elderly, the handicapped, the…

…have i forgotten anything ? oh yeah, VALUES i hear you shout.

Well as above, so below…If John Key were not an untrustworthy LIAR and led by example we might see better values.

Now about them ghost jobs so that idle hands don’t make the devils work….Where the bloody hell are they ?

you guessed it…OZ !
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November 9, 2011 4:09pm
noskire

This is brilliant http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/5936387/Wellywood-sign-spoof-flames-airport
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November 9, 2011 4:26pm
Manolo

The Messiah would fit well in the Labour Party: http://blog.heritage.org/2011/11/08/obama-couldnt-wait-his-new-christmas-tree-tax/
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November 9, 2011 4:49pm
nasska

Mud Coloured with an Imagination

Over about the last 24 hours you’ve aimed repeated attacks at John Key & all of these rants have the lack of jobs as a central theme. I don’t deny that there are less jobs on offer than there are people to fill them & I wonder myself where many employed & DPB recipients will find the work they are expected to seek.

What I would like to know is what JK as a political leader can do to create well paid work for people with little in the way of qualifications & patchy work histories. Unless you are suggesting that we go back to the days of Rob Muldoon who made the dole queue disappear by forcing the NZ Railways to take on about 10000 people they didn’t need we are going to have to rely on the private sector to magic up the jobs.

The private sector are not going to hire en masse until conditions are such that the new workers can add value to the employers’ companies. Getting these ducks in a row has been going on behind the scenes over the past three years.

Even when & if an upturn occurs New Zealand is only another very small country amongst many sharing the same goal. Presumably you follow the unemployment rates in other countries & it is when you compare say the USA with our figures you realise that things could be worse. All the way through the developed world manufacturing jobs are being lost to third world countries & manufacturing is a huge soak hole for labour.

Capital knows no boundaries & jobs follow the money be it to China last decade, India & Brazil now & maybe Africa in another twenty years. Point is that the poorly educated workers who tightened the screws in the TV you watch or painted the car you drive work for wages in conditions that no New Zealander would accept. It is this globalisation of wages that you (& many others) will not consider when you demand that John Key et al, drag jobs out of their arses.

Without reverting to “Me Tarzan, Key he lie, Her Jane” can you tell the readers of this forum what the government should do to create well paid menial work.

Hint: Try not to allude to tax cuts for the rich because if the rich take their money to China or India there will be even more unemployment.
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November 9, 2011 4:54pm
Black with a Vengeance

How about getting Key himself to front on where these 170 000 jobs his gov’t are creating will come from instead ?

http://www.youtube.com/user/NZNats#p/u/3/wgNJsPHIpXc

I do think that Labours youth employment plan is a good start…

Labour has a four-year $251-million package, which includes replacing $8700 dole payments
into subsidies for 9000 apprenticeship places.

The party is also proposing 5000 new training places for 16 and 17-year-olds, including 2000
with Maori and Pasifika mentoring.

“Youth unemployment represents for us a potentially much longer issue for New Zealand,” Labour’s youth affairs spokeswoman Jacinda Ardern said.

as opposed to…

Social Development Minister Paula Bennett released a controversial policy last month to extend the $10.40 starting out wage for 16 and 17 year olds from three months, or 200 hours, to six months.

Prime Minister John Key said it would give young workers a “much-needed foot in the door”.

The National-led Government has also put aside $55.2 million over four years in the 2011 Budget for job ops, skills for growth, and volunteers programmes – all aimed at getting young people skills and work.

“We know the majority of young people can find their way into work independently, so we’re targeting those who really need help gaining the skills, confidence and education to get into a
good job,” Bennett said.

“This approach is aimed at providing every opportunity so these young people don’t end up on welfare.”

For an estimated 1600 youth on welfare, National planned to introduce firmer obligations to stay on track.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/readers-reporter/5926968/Election-soapbox-Youth-unemployment

I also think incentivising Kiwi mums and dads to invest in smarter businesses with a focus on renewable energy, or the eco friendly agricultural sector, by not giving them the soft option of investing in state owned power companies and dairy farms is worth exploring as a means of improving/creating business capable of sustaining meaningful employment. As is a capital gains tax to disincentivise them from investing in property.

Simple answer is, i don’t know where the jobs are but if Key does and plans to create ’em i’d like to hear a plan to back up the sloganeering. If not, then quit with the *ahem* porkies.
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November 9, 2011 5:35pm
bereal

i see ‘Blue arse with a vengeance’ is hard at it again today.
Started early and kept it up all day, both here and the ‘ Goff gets nasty ‘ thread.

He can’t have paid attention when his dad gave him the old talk and explained that,
‘If you overdo it it son you will go silly, or blind, or both.’

He must have decided that it was so good that it was worth the risk.
He’ll keep one eye closed so he doesn’t go totally blind.

He has gone silly but.
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November 9, 2011 6:02pm
bereal

Hey,’ blue arse’
a word to the wise.
Keep a pair of boxing gloves on 24/7
If you can’t leave it alone
It’s your one hope to come good.
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November 9, 2011 6:13pm
nasska

Fair answer. I’m not much of a fan of things Labour but the apprenticeship scheme deserves looking into whoever is in power. Sometimes the law of unintended consequences comes into play & in this case you may find that only new apprentices taken on are those covered by the funding.

I’m still left with the niggling thought that until real wages match those who have taken over our manufacturing base unemployment is not going to go away. No government, at least at present, could sell the idea of people working twelve hours a day for food & lodging & it would go against the egalitarian nature of the average Kiwi.

The risk is that unless our reliance on overseas money to pay for the groceries is reduced we could end up another Greece. If this happens we will work or starve. Big spending governments may be heading the way of the moa & in order
to balance the budget I can see living standards taking a hiding.

The next few years will be interesting to say the least.
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November 9, 2011 6:15pm
lilman

Cant help but feel sorry for GOFF on news tonight,looks like a fairly decent guy but has been shafted by the party big time,wonder how many good honest hard working Labour members of parliment will be standing beside him on election night.
Sorry Phill you gotta sort out who you hang with.
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November 9, 2011 6:18pm
Black with a Vengeance

OK just this once…

There lived in a fairytale land called Kiwiblog an especially moronic trolling right wing idiot named bereal who never contributed a single line of dialogue worthy of serious debate.

Many were the other seemingly intelligent right wing denizens of Kiwiblog embarassed by bereals idiocy and lack of intellect that secretly they wished she would do them all a favour and crawl back under her rock never to be heard of again.

Alas, being an ignorant troll and subtly confronted with this truth, she still thought it prudent to continue exhibiting stupidity of such grand scale as to warrant a lesson in netiquette from the giant, Black with a Vengeance.

Much to her eternal shame and the continued amusement of the other moronic trolls, it didn’t make any difference and Bereal content with wallowing in her own delusional rants lived happily ever after.

The moral of the story being. Stupid is as stupid does and ain’t nothing no one can do about it, not even vengeful giants.

Disclaimer :any resemblance to places real or imagined are entirely coincidental.
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November 9, 2011 6:37pm
bereal

Jeez nasska
i know you do have a good sense of humour. But.
“Big spending govertments ‘MAY’ be heading the way of the moa”
Try and get positive.
“To balance the budget I see living standards take a hiding.”

What happened to reducing govt. Reducing the non productive state sector. Reducing the over welfare, welfare state.
Stand on our own feet and be proud.
Reduce compliance costs on business where the wealth comes from.
Deciding that the countries wealth comes from a capitalist not socialist system
and going for broke on that.

With a net at the bottom to help and support the very, very small number of New Zealanders who are really unable to contribute.
through no fault of their own.
Don’t give up on your country yet.
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November 9, 2011 6:37pm
wat dabney

In case you ever wondered why teachers pay so much to try to keep control of the state:

“counting salaries, benefits and job security—teachers receive about 52% more than they could in private business.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203687504576655352353046120.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Yes, it’s so they can plunder the rest of us.
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November 9, 2011 6:39pm
Black with a Vengeance

The risk is that unless our reliance on overseas money to pay for the groceries is reduced we could end up another Greece.

Unlike Greece, we have vast tracts of arable land, an abundance of fresh water and low populaiton density that we could easily invest more in eco friendly agriculture/aquaculture combined with self researched and developed advances in reneweable energy to supply not only our grocery needs but those of a signficant proportion of the planet beyond current overfishing, using sweatshop labour and greenhouse emitting dead zone creating dairy farms.

Key’s gov’t, in my oh so humble opinion, is sending out the wrong messages to kiwi mums and dads in looking to implement backasswards looking policies with their short sighted selloff of state assets and gutless ETS scheme.
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November 9, 2011 6:48pm
bereal

Hey, Blue arsed Vengeance.
You really do need to put those boxing gloves on mate. After a while you might find that you can
stop being so silly ( a siily billy )
you will get a clearer perspective on things. If you stop interfering with yourself.

Then you might get a little more about yourself than just hate and abuse.
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November 9, 2011 6:49pm
nasska

Bereal

I’ve got to be very careful here because I’m an economic illiterate & as such I probably oversimplify complex problems. The welfare net is “nice to have” & generally sits well with the nature of the average New Zealander. What annoys most of our commentators are those who use it as a lifestyle option.

The point I was making to our multihued friend was whether even a basic welfare net was going to be possible if the GFC continues its downward spiral. At the moment we are borrowing to stand still. If we are unable to borrow then our people will have to work for the same pay in the same conditions as the countries we are forced to compete with.
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November 9, 2011 6:51pm
reid

Key’s gov’t, in my oh so humble opinion, is sending out the wrong messages to kiwi mums and dads in looking to implement backasswards looking policies with their short sighted selloff of state assets and gutless ETS scheme.

Shame the average voter doesn’t appear to share your opinion isn’t it Black.

The average voter appears quite sanguine about the mixed ownership model, don’t they.

Extraordinary, isn’t it.

And then the ETS. Why I bet JK could scrap the whole thing tomorrow, call the IPCC and everyone who believed a word of what they say a bunch of slack-jawed yokels and still poll well over 50%.

What’s your humble opinion on that, Black?

nasska, excellent @ 4:54, BTW.
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November 9, 2011 7:03pm
nasska

BWAV

We do have a natural advantage with the land available & we have in seeming abundance one gift…clean water. Maybe it is possible to mop up some unemployment with agriculture & possibly aquaculture. Both are well worth looking at.

I do however hark back to the question of what these workers can expect to be paid. Walk into your nearest Countdown or New World. Even a pack of frozen cauliflower pieces or a tin of apricots comes from a third world country although the origin is hidden by trade agreements obfuscating the facts. The fish counter probably sells some mudfish caught in the polluted waters of the Mekong delta.

This what we are up against…to compete we have to match our competitors’ costs.
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November 9, 2011 7:08pm
reid

Even a pack of frozen cauliflower pieces or a tin of apricots comes from a third world country although the origin is hidden by trade agreements obfuscating the facts.

Don’t wowwy nasska. The Gweens have made their #1 bottom line = food labeling so this dweadful pwoblem will bedevil us no more. Huwway!

At least, that’s what the Gweens seem to think. Just exactly how it addresses anything, I haven’t yet understood, personally.
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November 9, 2011 7:11pm
noskire

lilman (218) Says:
November 9th, 2011 at 6:18 pm

Cant help but feel sorry for GOFF on news tonight,looks like a fairly decent guy but has been shafted by the party big time,wonder how many good honest hard working Labour members of parliment will be standing beside him on election night.
Sorry Phill you gotta sort out who you hang with.

lilman, I agree. Goff was the bridesmaid of the failed marriage who unfortunately caught the bouqet when Clark departed.
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November 9, 2011 7:12pm
Black with a Vengeance

Yes reid…

it is shameful and frankly embarrasing, but let’s not think for a moment that a vote for Key equates to tacit approval of selling state assets.

Polling, as far as i have seen, doesn’t indicate even he thinks he can secure a mandate for that dirty deed looking to be done dirt cheap, which is why he’s not really flogging that horse and rather content to flog Labours ass with cheap quips instead.

Post election i think you’ll see re-energrised and galvanised left wing led waves of protest encompassing much of middle NZ that will force an embarassing backdown on partial privatisation much the same as the gov’t was forced to do with mining schedule 4 land.
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November 9, 2011 7:16pm
bereal

OK nasska on one level we are both in the same boat.
i got 10% in school cert maths. DavidR will never believe it but i got 89% in UE english.

regards borrowing to stand still.
We have a plan to reduce borrowing and come into credit soon.
We will see if our fellow citizens agree with that 26 nov.

The welfare net should be a net and not a way of life as it has turned out to be.
That has become a fuck up and needs to be corrected.

You are so wrong with your last sentence i don’t know where to start.

Try this.
We are a developed western democracy.
We need to compete with and trade with the likes of India and China, Indonesia etc. to the mutual benefit of
all of us.
We should be trading with and helping to build those economies to all our mutual benefit.
We can bring them up or we can go down. Keep our heads high.
It’s a question of attitude.
Lets develop a win, win philosophy.

This is something our poor sad mate “blue arsed with a huge chip on his shoulder”
will never be able to grasp.

Untill he releases his grasp on himself and remembers what his dad told him.
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November 9, 2011 7:21pm
reid

Post election i think you’ll see re-energrised and galvanised left wing led waves of protest encompassing much of middle NZ that will force an embarassing backdown on partial privatisation much the same as the gov’t was forced to do with mining schedule 4 land.

Well we’ll certainly see re-energised and galvanised ~~Silent-T~~ left wing led waves of protest encompassing NZ, once you guys get over your huge impending defeat and subsequent shouting, finger-pointing, blood-shedding and executions and you blame the Nats for it, since you can’t see what you did to bring what’s about to happen upon yourselves. It has to be someone else’s fault, it has to be, is what I predict lefties up and down the country will be saying as they see the results piling in.

But fact is, why do you disagree with privatisation? I haven’t seen one intellectual argument from any lefty here, ever, on that? Why is it you think the state should own and operate businesses which don’t otherwise need to be? Some functions are constitutional, legitimate state functions, like defence, police, lots and lots more. But what precisely is so constitutionally precious about the ownership of any SOE?
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November 9, 2011 7:33pm
nasska

reid

I would never dictate nor would I want to be told that I can only buy a product originating from a country that has received the blessings of the bureaucrats. I do expect the luxury of the information being made available so that I can make my own choices. Some of the chemicals used regularly in third world countries are really toxic & their standards can be shocking. Remember the instance of the melamine in the milk powder. How about organophosphate sprays banned in NZ over twenty years ago but still used without care or restriction in China.

If I am to risk poisoning I want to to it by my own choice…not some arsehole running a foodstore chain who can make a few extra dollars by relabelling a tin of fruit salad.
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November 9, 2011 7:46pm
nasska

bereal

…”We need to compete with and trade with the likes of India and China, Indonesia etc. to the mutual benefit of
all of us.”….

Fair enough & we do. We’ve got protein & some intellectual property….they have an abundant supply of cheap labour. We also have an unused supply of labour but it isn’t cheap & regrettably it is not particularly skillful. What do we do with these people?
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November 9, 2011 7:53pm
plebe

There are better things to keep a eye on than politics, this is one.
http://youtu.be/wJxnejjN0yw
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November 9, 2011 7:55pm
Steve

@ plebe (hello gary)
Is there some sort of messege intended? Union Pacific Train.
Notice all of the supporters taking photos of the OLD STEAM TRAIN that is history, just like the old Labour Party.
The Liarbore Party of today is full of wreckers and haters; liars and thieves, cheats and imposters.
Mr Savage would not be proud of Labour 2011
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November 9, 2011 8:22pm
bereal

nasska
i’m not an economist but i guess the answer to your question is that we use our brains and add
value to our clean green products. We sell ourselves. we market ourselves.

We dont export lamb carcases, we process them and aim at the top end of the market in first world economies.
We dont export our logs to countries that use them to send us crap furniture in return.

We wake up and mine some of our almost unlimited resourses of minerals like world class coal etc.
We drill for our oil and find more Maui gas fields.

Then everyone who wants to work in NZ will have a job.
Apologists like “blue arse with a Vengaence ” with a huge chip on his pathetic shoulder
will then just dissappear naturally.
Remember that tosser saying, “John Key. He can kiss my tatooded blue arse. What has the dude done for me ?”

Thats the sick fuck, world owes me a living, rich pricks are stealing from me mindset, that will prevent our great country ever
reaching our potential.

Lets get on with it and leave the likes of “blue arsed sikko” to play with themselves.
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November 9, 2011 8:23pm
nasska

Baby Bear goes downstairs and sits in his small chair at the table, he looks into his small bowl. It is empty. “Who’s been eating my porridge?”, he squeaks.
Daddy Bear arrives at the big table and sits in his big chair. He looks into his big bowl, and it is also empty. “Who’s been eating my Porridge?, he roars. Mummy Bear puts her head through the serving hatch from the kitchen and yells: “For Christ’s sake, how many times do we have to go through this with you idiots? It was Mummy Bear who got up first, it was Mummy Bear who woke everyone in the house, it was Mummy Bear who made the coffee, it was Mummy Bear who unloaded the dishwasher from last night, and put everything away, it was Mummy Bear who went out in the cold early morning air to fetch the newspaper, it was Mummy Bear who set the damn table, it was Mummy Bear who put the friggin cat out, cleaned the litter box, and filled the cat’s water and food dish, and, now that you’ve decided to drag your sorry bear arses downstairs, and grace Mummy Bear’s kitchen with your grumpy presence, listen good, cause I’m only going to say this one more time: “I haven’t made the bloody porridge yet!”
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November 9, 2011 8:28pm
bereal

G’nite all.
Don’t expect to see anything more from the onanist “blue arse with a Vengeance” tonight.

He will pick it up again early tomorrow when he is feeling better and beat it all day long.

Good luck to your families.
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November 9, 2011 8:42pm
Steve

ebony with a splinter will go back and talk with Hone and decide how to deal with the honkies
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November 9, 2011 8:46pm
nasska

bereal

There is one fish hook in your proposals & it’s the one obstacle everyone wants to get around…..costs in particular, labour. In each of the instances you quoted most of the value being added to the product was the wages of the workers.

It would be great if a log could be milled & processed into prefab houses or furniture here in NZ but the economics don’t stack up. Cost of labour in NZ is about $30/hour minimum… in the poorer areas of China it may be less than $1. If we export a lamb carcase to a country with a lower labour cost than ours where do you think the ‘valued added’ bit will be done?

I can’t see a future in NZ pushing for manufacturing processes involving uneducated labour unless our wage costs are much more closely aligned with our trading partners.
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November 9, 2011 8:51pm
Steve

Not just the labour costs nasska,
All of the others; rent, power, water, insurance. Then we go on to Govt costs; ACC, LTSA, OSH inspections, Building inspections, Electrical inspections… never mind the list goes on.
ffs the air compressor has a noise compliance requirement
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November 9, 2011 9:04pm
bereal

i was going to retire tonight but.

i said it was all about attitude.

Greatist respect nasska but.

‘I can’t see a future in NZ ……etc…etc…’

Get our wages more closely aligned with our trading partners.

WTF are you on about ?

How do you see a future in New Zealand ?

We trade with China.

Your last sentence is pure shit. With respect.
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November 9, 2011 9:09pm
nasska

Steve

The compliance costs are a shocker. A while back in a fit of madness I was about to take on a worker. Fortunately I ran it past my accountant. He reckoned a rough rule of thumb for the all up cost to employ an unskilled worker was double the hourly rate. I don’t pay myself that much.

bereal

Follow the money. Everything we produce is a commodity. If we take , for example, a rack of lamb chops they are part of a carcase that returns the farmer $5.50/kg ….the wholesale price might be $12/kg. The missing $6.50, mostly went to wages & all the costs of compliance. If that same Kg of chilled unprocessed meat can be landed in India for $6.50 it can be cut up there for maybe 50cents/Kg.

No one in business for sentimental reasons stays in business. Competition is king & price is 99.99% of everything.
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November 9, 2011 9:33pm
Black with a Vengeance

But fact is, why do you disagree with privatisation?

because the status quo as it relates to state assets currently works for everybody. It doesn’t disadvantage the unfortunate and unwealthy.

Put SOE’s into private hands and the bottom line then becomes profit by any means neccessary with the first thing compromised being the checks and balances state management provides to ensure costs and profits are spread evenly across all of, and for the betterment of, society as a whole.

Didn’t you learn anything from SOE’s being gutted and stripped of assets then run into the ground by the last gang of unscrupulous arseholes who got hold of them and fattened their wallets then took off to foreign tax havens to secure it from paying their tax dues here in NZ ?

If private enterprise want to get into the market by duplicating state owned enterprises then they can fucken well bankroll it themselves, on their own, from scratch and prove they can do it better in open competition.

Then maybe we’ll see the gov’ts get their shit together and shape up to provide better returns to invest in infrastructure rather than looking to sell them off simply for a lack of commitment to its citizens to provide decent management.

It’s not that we need these assets/enterprises to be state owned, its that we want them to be and we don’t need them to be privately owned or run.

put simply, it ain’t broken, so don’t fix it.
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November 9, 2011 10:12pm
Pauleastbay

RE: Occupy Dunedin Trespassers

Dunedin-Clutha area police commander Greg Sparrow said police did not believe the notice met the test of balancing the rights and freedoms of all parties………………………………….

Funny I always thought we had the Courts to make these decisions Greg, all you need is good cause to suspect that the offence has occurred.
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November 10, 2011 6:01am

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