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November 6, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 6 November 2011

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General Debate

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big bruv

Get up you lazy bastards!. Don’t you know that there are socialists and beneficiaries out there depending on you to go to work so they can receive their weekly allowance from us.
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November 6, 2011 8:21am
Monique Watson

Oi with the yelling. Some of us were up drinking and carousing late into the night. Boom shanker. The fireworks I can buy seem to be getting better every year.
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November 6, 2011 8:34am
plebe

What idiot has to work on a Sunday,poor bastard.
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November 6, 2011 8:36am
big bruv

Stuff the fireworks, it was like downtown Baghdad here last night. I have no problem with them early in the evening but when the bastards are still letting them off after midnight it does get a bit too much.
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November 6, 2011 8:37am
big bruv

I met a socialist yesterday, I asked him why he thought that socialism was the way to go.

When he finished telling me I simply said “Ok, give me some money”, he asked why I wanted his money, I told him that under his system the reason was irrelevant, the only thing that mattered was that at that time he had more than me and I wanted to even things up.

He did not understand.
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November 6, 2011 8:40am
Inventory2

The Standard hits a new low, even by their “standards”

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/11/setting-another-new-low-standard.html
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November 6, 2011 8:42am
laworder

plebe wrote

What idiot has to work on a Sunday,poor bastard.

Me – in my paid job 🙂

Regards
Peter J
Webmaster for http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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November 6, 2011 9:01am
Scott Chris

Monique Watson says:- “The fireworks I can buy seem to be getting better every year.”

Yup, and yet the Nannies and the aging bah humbugs seem set to spoil the party:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5916159/All-fired-up-over-Guy-Fawkes-ban

As an animal lover, the trauma caused to them is my main concern, but they do get over it, just as they get over the sound of thunder. Kids who get injured are also a concern, but it is up to their parents to supervise them properly. Adults who get injured only have themselves to blame.

Also, to those who wish to ban fireworks, how many Aussi pyromaniacs could be lured over here for the annual Guy Fawkes festival? Basically, it’s a selling point for our tourism industry. Wonder how many of them targeted the Aussis?
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November 6, 2011 9:03am
big bruv

IV2

I had a look at that thread, just the normal shit one expects from the Standard.

The funniest thing about it IMHO was the continuing denial of Iprent that the Standard is anything other than a Labour party and EPMU funded site.

Do they really think that if they keep repeating that lie we will all believe them?
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November 6, 2011 9:05am
big bruv

Plebe

It does not matter what you might like to do, the nations parasites demand to be fed every week so I suggest you get off your arse and go and do some work.

Rest and relaxation is for the bludgers of this world.

Anyway, I thought that most of you lot could not live unless the shops and businesses were open 365 days of the year….:)
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November 6, 2011 9:08am
Inventory2

Dead right big bruv; Lynn Prentice pats the heads of all those who smear John Key, whilst banning Ross Miller until after the election for daring to suggest that there might be a link between The Standard and the Labour Party. It’s that kind of hypocrisy that needs to be exposed.
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November 6, 2011 9:14am
MT_Tinman

plebe (94) Says:
November 6th, 2011 at 8:36 am
What idiot has to work on a Sunday,poor bastard.

‘fraid I must plead guilty also although the law of the land doesn’t allow me to start before !0:30.

Such is the life of the self employed. (Sigh!)

BB, it is every mans’ duty to pay as little tax as possible so those bastards get as little of it as possible.
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November 6, 2011 9:15am
Dave Mann

Brilliant night last night…. my wife and I heard people’s fireworks around dusk and decided on the spur of the moment to get into the fun, so we rushed off to buy a box (thanks Boom Brothers!). We ended up with the neighbours on their porch, wine in hand, having a wonderful time. Then the whole neighbourhood was rocked by a massive explosion…. apparently one of the local lads makes his own thunderflashes and he set one off in a drain (for safety and added noise – because you are young doesn’t mean you are totally stupid) and that was amazing!

And yes, we do like animals. And yes, our lovely pussycat was a bit on edge, so we locked him safely in the house with food and a dark place to hide in and he survived without incident.

Throughout the evening I couldn’t help feeling that people basically want to ENJOY themselves and their lives and have some FUN sometimes. If the whining fun hating do-gooders ever get enough power to ban fireworks, then I’ll bloody well move to Australia. Oh wait… our cousins have already banned fun, haven’t they? Shit…
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November 6, 2011 9:23am
Other_Andy

@IV2

“Lynn Prentice pats the heads of all those who smear John Key, whilst banning Ross Miller until after the election for daring to suggest that there might be a link between The Standard and the Labour Party.”

Does Prentice suggest there is no link?
He runs The Standard and he links himself (LinkedIn) with the Labour Party.
(Groups and Associations: New Zealand Labour Party.)
He is listed on Grassroots Labour.
He is listed as the owner of the labour.co.nz site
Owner Name:
New Zealand Labour Party
Owner Email: lprent@primary.geek.nz

Why would he deny the link?
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November 6, 2011 9:37am
Ross Miller

Gueez Wayne … my first and now only time I will post on the Standard criticising their ‘John Key is a Drunk’ thread gets me banned for three weeks. Hate to think what would have happened if I had called out David Cunliffe for being a …………

They REALLY are touchy. Must be something to do with the polls.
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November 6, 2011 9:55am
Pete George

David Cunliffe just said on Q+A that Labour will consider the United Future flexi super age policy.
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November 6, 2011 9:56am
dime

Just had a look at the standard.. Such venom.

Wonder if the bloggers have any contact with normal, non-political people. The just sound like envious little victims.

Ah well, shit happens. They will never win their fight.
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November 6, 2011 10:10am
southtop

“What idiot has to work on a Sunday,poor bastard.”

Me cos I own the business, me cos I have to catch up on my other job, me cos I volunteered to do some community work and most of all the two first ‘paid’ jobs are to pay for all the snouts we workers are carrying!
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November 6, 2011 10:17am
reid

How come the Race Relations Conciliator is calling Steve Williams remark: “appalling?”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10764190

I’m afraid he can’t do that, not after his past performance with Hone and Margaret Mutu.

All he can now, I’m afraid, is to do what he did then, with those two.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/08/not_racist.html

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/11/is_this_a_double_standard_joris.html

Otherwise Joris is a racist mofo. Sorry Joris, but you are. You’re the one who chose the react that way when a couple of Maori said what they said. Now you’re bound to act with a similar response, when a pakeha says it, aren’t you. Unless of course you wish the office you represent to lose all credibility. Do you want that Joris, or not?
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November 6, 2011 10:19am
Falafulu Fisi

I’ll split my post into 3, since it is too long:

Part 1:
=====

This may be of interest to parents here like Tom Hunter, et al, who are in the IT (computer science or software programming) that may help their kids to become interest in mathematics if they’re not already done so or perhaps their kids struggle with maths or find maths uninteresting.

Try to get them to write a simple numerical routine/algorithm of how to find a root a one-variable equation, of course you have to do it with them. I’m sure that you’ve already introduced your kids into some form of introductory programming in whatever computer language you use. Such exercise may drive them to become interested in maths if they haven’t already done so. I use Maple computer algebra software for teaching maths. Its a great package because I have just recently teach them how to write programs to solve for solution numerically using Maple. The student version of Maple is around $200 NZ, which is worth an investment for their education. Maple’s local re-distributor is in Hamilton (Hoare Research). Universities also use Maple. I’ll give an short explanation of how introducing them to numerical computing may help their math learning or drive them to like math.

Finding roots of an equation via numerical iteration, a topic that is covered in the Cambridge International Exam (CIE) year 13 pure math curriculum, but not NCEA. This is why I introduce kids into programming because they can understand the concept much better, ie, programming in conjunction with theory. The root-finding iteration topic in CIE doesn’t require students to write a computer program to find roots because they can just use a calculator (however the intention for including this topic in the curriculum is to inspire students to go ahead and do so, either using EXCEL spreadsheet or some other programming).
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November 6, 2011 10:34am
Falafulu Fisi

Part #2 (Continue on)
—————–

An example here (taken from the CIE year 13 pure math text-book). Find the root of the following equation at a starting value of x=0.8 (radians); (note : ‘^’ denotes power, eg : x^2 is x-square or x power 2, and ‘*’ denotes a multiplication, eg : 2*x is 2 times x, ‘sqrt’ is a short for square-root, ‘sin’ is for sine function in trigonometry, ‘arcsin’ is the inverse of ‘sin’, ‘/’ means division ).

Find the roots of :

x^2 + x*sin(x) – 4 = 0

The equation above, there is no analytic formula (ie, closed form) to find the roots, like the quadratic equation, there is a definite formula (closed form) of how to find the roots. The only way is to approximate the root/s of the equation above is via numerical iteration.

The first step is to make x become the subject on the left-hand-side (LHS) and move everything else to the right-hand-side (RHS) of the equation. This is called fixed-point form; I can think of 3 fixed point form. There many be more than 3 fixed-point form altogether.

Form #1 :
=======
x = sqrt(4 – x*sin(x))

Form #2:
=======
x = (4 – x^2)/sin(x)

Form #3:
=======
x = arcsin((4 – x^2)/x)

and here are their corresponding iteration form:

Form #1 Iteration :
=============
x(n+1) = sqrt(4 – x(n)*sin(x(n)))

Form #2 Iteration :
=============
x(n+1) = (4 – x(n)^2)/sin(x(n))

Part #2 (Continue on)
————————-

Form #3 Iteration :
=============
x(n+1) = arcsin((4 – x(n)^2)/x(n))

The iterations above is easy to program (in any computer language including EXCEL), however students can still use the calculator to do it manually and visually check the LSH of the equation if it settles on the same number after certain iterations (converge). The iteration may diverge if a solution doesn’t exist it so set a pre-determined value for say n=100 that if the differences between subsequent iterations on the LHS are getting bigger and bigger as iteration increases, it means that it will never end (infinite loop). Once it reaches 100 iterations, then the routine is exit, thus to avoid infinite loop.
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November 6, 2011 10:35am
adze

IV2 – with the “hat tip” it looks like the picture came from the equally unfunny Tumeke blog. No surprises there.
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November 6, 2011 10:36am
Falafulu Fisi

Part #3 (Continue on)
————————-

Ok, here is the result for “Form #1 Iteration” where I just used the standard scientific calculator allowed for high school students math/physics exams.

Form #1 Iteration :
=============
x(n+1) = sqrt(4 – x(n)*sin(x(n)))

Remember that our starting value for x = 0.8 (radians and not degrees) or x(1) = 0.8, value at first iteration n=1 ;

Results:
———
x(1) = 0.8
x(2) = 1.850976803550056
x(3) = 1.490369425554012
x(4) = 1.585701167914677
x(5) = 1.553858090039818
x(6) = 1.564085933884791
x(7) = 1.560752793009685
x(8) = 1.561834154096390
x(9) = 1.561482811037219
x(10) = 1.561596910605625
x(11) = 1.561559850701361
x(12) = 1.561571887267809
x(13) = 1.561567977886087
x(14) = 1.561569247615620
x(15) = 1.561568835218981
x(16) = 1.561568969161594

The final solution is found after 16 iterations, ie, x(16) = 1.561568969161594, which is accurate and rounded to 6 decimal places x = 1.561569. All this has been done visually, since I want to know if the value in the LHS of subsequent iterations converges into a number, meaning values from subsequent iterations doesn’t change much (by some tolerance say, 0.000001 which in scientific or calculator notation is equal to 1E-6) from previous ones. If you note the difference between x(15) and x(16), this difference (D) is amounted to roughly 0.000000013 of 1.3E-7, which is less than the tolerance of 1E-6 ; All the 3 different fixed point iterations above are never ending (infinite), so it is important to write a termination condition to the program either set n=100 (if number of iterations gone above 100, then stop) or set the difference D<1E-6, once the difference has fall below this tolerance value, then stop (the iteration converges and a root is found).

Root finding which is covered in the Cambridge Exam year 13 pure math is the first numerical algorithms that I have taught kids to write a Maple computer program to solve for numerical solutions. My top kid student wrote his first Maple trapezium algorithm on his own and it worked. Trapezium/trapezoidal algorithm is used to calculate an approximation to equations that can’t be integrated symbolically, eg, there is no way one can integrate the following and come up with a close form solution:

Integrate ( sin(x)/x )

My students have asked what’s the real world application of iterations? I’ve told them that is countless (engineering, science), however I told them something that they can connect with like the internet and Google. I said the Google pagerank algorithm uses Power Iteration Method to solve numerical solution for pagerank.
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November 6, 2011 10:37am
Nookin

Fascinating, FF. Will Peter Jackson or Quentin Tarantino be doing the movie. I can’t wait!
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November 6, 2011 10:37am
adze

This brings back the horrors of high school maths for me *shudder*.
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November 6, 2011 10:40am
Manolo

Mathematics is, and will always be, a marvelous subject.
I’m fascinated by prime numbers. Long live the Riemann hypothesis!
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November 6, 2011 10:43am
plebe

Plebe

It does not matter what you might like to do, the nations parasites demand to be fed every week so I suggest you get off your arse and go and do some work.

Rest and relaxation is for the bludgers of this world.

Anyway, I thought that most of you lot could not live unless the shops and businesses were open 365 days of the year….:)

Well that got you lot going without having two cups of coffee first.Dont worry i open up my place of work at 7.30 am 5 days a week and pay my fair share towards the country.
Off to give the dogs a 2 hour walk now,one must stay fit to post here. Cheers….
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November 6, 2011 10:44am
Black with a Vengeance

ARRRRRRRGGHHHHHH My eyes, they burn !!!

I believed you already FFS that you were a choice maths tutor. I didn’t need you to prove it, especially not here on a bright sunday morning.
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November 6, 2011 10:46am
Monique Watson

that’s interesting Pete George re Q + A and Cunliffe on UF super policy. I wondered when the main parties would start cuddling up. it’s the best policy by far.
Re working: If you can’t beat em, join em.
http://the-yeas-or-nays-have-it.blogspot.com/
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November 6, 2011 11:24am
bc

Falafulu Fisi: “Finding roots of an equation via numerical iteration, a topic that is covered in the Cambridge International Exam (CIE) year 13 pure math curriculum, but not NCEA.”

That statement is not true – you are showing your pro-Cambridge bias there!
Achievement standard 90644 (Solve equations) requires students to use an iterative process to find roots of euqtions using the bisection method and/or the Newton-Raphson method.
What I like about this standard is that students are also required to compare the advantages and disadvantages of both methods for particular equations. This to me is much higher level thinking than just doing the process (which as you say can be done easily using spreadsheets).

Here’s the standard: http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/nqfdocs/ncea-resource/achievements/2006/as90644.pdf

Also there is a standard which requires students to using a numerical method to integrate functions that cannot be integrated directly otherwise. Students need to be able to use both the Trapezium rule and Simpson’s Rule. Again rather than just using these methods to find the value of a definite integratal which is just number crunching the standard requires students to apply the methiods to find areas – more higher level thinking.

Here’s the standard: http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/nqfdocs/ncea-resource/achievements/2006/as90636.pdf

Mathematics should be much more than processes in my opinion, which it seems to me these standards encourage.
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November 6, 2011 11:26am
reid

Steam powered car designed by an Aussie in 1963, watch the video, it’s amazing.

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/11/02/1963-ford-falcon-steam-power-edition/
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November 6, 2011 11:37am
reid

Meanwhile Hone launches his hating and wrecking…

“You’ll find John Key making deals behind closed doors in Phil Goff’s office. Smash all the fascists, we got Mana.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5916154/Mana-off-with-a-bang-and-a-song

Yes Hone, that’s right. Let’s pretend NZ really is just brimming with hatred and envy cos the majority of white people who are all wealthy, selfish rich pricks have stolen our heritage and thereby our Mana and we demand it back, we’re not asking, we’re just taking it. So fuck off.

This is basically Mana’s philosophy in a nutshell, isn’t it.

NZ is kind of like bizarro-land, isn’t it, whereby a racist party gets plenty of traction from the very people who claim to hate racism.

And the rest of us let them get away with it for what can one do but watch. I hoped by now that both Key and Goff would have long ago labelled them as haters and wreckers. Doing so destroys their ability to hate and wreck. But no. In the name of “not rocking the boat” both these people who are frankly the only people in the country in a position to do it, abrogate that responsibility and allow this monstrosity to reap a bitter and long lasting harvest as they plant the seeds of hatred, envy, injustice and anger, as Hone and his hateful wreckers weave their poison into the susceptible and naive minds of their base.
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November 6, 2011 11:52am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

Geez I don’t think I touched numerical iterations until 300-level at uni…….. Im sure it wasn’t in bursary calculus
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November 6, 2011 11:55am
Falafulu Fisi

BC, of course I have a pro-Cambridge bias. The document that you referenced shown the “Subject Reference” as “Statistics and Modelling 3.4”. I have all the David Barton’s year 11, 12 and 13 for NCEA and topics on iteration are not covered at all in there, so my assumption is based on what I see on the NCEA math textbooks. Now, you’ve corrected me that indeed it is covered in NCEA. My question, is why isn’t it covered in the NCEA text book but the guidelines includes it there?

Since it looked like to me that it is a topic covered in “Statistics & Modeling”, perhaps that’s why I’ve missed it, because I don’t teach Cambridge statistics to students yet, but definitely next year. I haven’t bought the NCEA statistics text book yet, perhaps it is in there if you can confirm that it is the case. I’m only teaching the 2 pure maths and 1 mechanics papers this year for Cambridge Exams. Next year, I will widen the papers to include the 2 CIE stats, 1 advanced pure math, 2 physics and 1 advanced mechanics in year 13 level.

I assume that you’re a teacher, aren’t you? There are other topics that are covered in the Cambridge math papers that are not included in the NCEA, such as matrix operations and 3D vectors, etc,…
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November 6, 2011 11:56am
RKBee

Q&A .. New Plymouth again looks close.. Nationals Jonathan Young invisable .. Labours Andrew Little wrong brand .. Independent Rusty Kane looks like he will again make his mark by spliting the margin on who wins or looses.

http://tvnz.co.nz/q-and-a-news/battle-new-plymouth-video-4504209?ref=facebook
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November 6, 2011 12:40pm
Longknives

“What idiot has to work on a Sunday,poor bastard.”- Me today… and my wife for a few hours also…Not everyone does Monday-Friday 9-5 anymore!

“How come the Race Relations Conciliator is calling Steve Williams remark: “appalling?””- Because it was.

“after his past performance with Hone and Margaret Mutu.”- You just don’t get it…as Mutu herself said only Whitey can be racist!

Does Hone even know the meaning of the word ‘Fascist’?? I wish a journalist with balls would ask him..
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November 6, 2011 12:46pm
Pete George

“Winston Peters says won’t work with National, or Labour, or the Greens, or the Maori Party.”

So that sort of stuffs any hopes Labour had of a cobbling together a coalition. If you can trust what peters says.
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November 6, 2011 1:00pm
bc

Falafulu Fisi – I’m fascinated why you say that you have a pro-Cambridge bias as if that’s the natural position to take!
No doubt there is pluses and minuses with both assessment methods.
I’m not familiar enough with both to make a call either way. However, it seems to me that NCEA encourages critical thinking and evaluating which to me are highly valued skills. The downside is that it may be at the expense of less content being taught – you mention Cambridge having matrices and 3D vectors in their syllabus. Perhaps NCEA spends more time teaching concepts in depth, which means they can’t cover as much content. Given only a finite length of teaching time, there has to be a trade-off somewhere.
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November 6, 2011 1:02pm
Manolo

The flight to Australia continues: http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10764186&ref=rss
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November 6, 2011 1:03pm
RightNow

Hey DPF, what’s the deal with these ads for Labour? Do you get paid per click?
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November 6, 2011 1:09pm
Longknives

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5916167/Cops-ears-prick-up-at-David-Bain-tape

Apparently an expert says only ‘Paranoid Police’ can hear the infmaous “I shot the Prick”…

I wonder if it’s also only these ‘Paranoid Police’ that think it mighty strange Robin Bain shot himself from an an inconceiveable angle using his wrong hand and didn’t leave one single bloody fingerprint on the gun….
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November 6, 2011 1:12pm
jaba

NZ First leader Winston Peters says the party will remain on the Opposition benches and refuse to support either of the two main parties if it is reelected to Parliament. heh?
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November 6, 2011 1:19pm
Longknives

Not to mention the magazine cartridge landing on its side at odds of 1 million to one!…Those crazy paranoid Police eh??
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November 6, 2011 1:20pm
bc

Pete George @1pm

Come on, you know the game! Winston will work with whoever offers him the biggest “baubles”.
Remember him playing up to the media holding a red cellphone to one ear and a blue cellphone to the other, as he held the country to ransom for weeks on end.
I’m going to make the call and say that his time is up.
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November 6, 2011 1:20pm
bc

Interesting clip about New Plymouth RKBee.

Like the panellists when I hear of an MP called Jonathan Young, my first reaction is who? But it seems being local and loyal to Taranaki is valued there (which is fair enough) so Andrew Little isn’t doing himself any favours by treating New Plymouth as a weekend-only retreat.
I’ll be watching the result on election night with interest!
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November 6, 2011 1:25pm
reid

I had a discussion with a colleague about Iran on Friday. He reckoned the US would never let it be attacked since he’s astute in certain geopolitical aspects. However he couldn’t believe the US would allow it let alone participate in it. I really hope it doesn’t happen cause if it does it means another major play on the global one-world govt route, which is coming fast at us.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056873/Iran-attack-drawn-UK-US-Middle-East-tensions-rise.html#ixzz1cbWfKgwh

It’s possible Iran already has nukes from the Ukraine, in the 90’s. They could use those against Israel. What happens then?
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November 6, 2011 1:55pm
Falafulu Fisi

BC said…
Falafulu Fisi – I’m fascinated why you say that you have a pro-Cambridge bias as if that’s the natural position to take!

The reason is that NCEA is a state mandate system. Im in favour of privatizing the education system. Im sure I can establish a private school for teaching accelerated math learing to compete with the sate. In NCEA, everyone is taught the same thing. It means that the student can’t jump into year-12 until he/she has passed year-11, he/she can’t jump into year-13 level until she/he passed year-12. This is very restrictive in my opinion. The student has no choice in the way he/she learns. It is all or nothing. Students who want to do accelerated learning is not allowed at all as I said above, they have to pass one level before proceeding the next level, so everyone is basically taught the same. That’s why I like Cambridge Exam because there is no restriction at all either age-wise or level-wise (except certain advanced papers that do require some pre-requisites to be passed prior to enrolling). They allow private candidates to sit CIE, meaning a student from Wellington or anywhere else can take CIE papers in a Cambridge affiliated/approved school in Auckland without having to attend classes, she/she just have to turn up on the exam date with an ID and his/her “CIE Entry Slip” to sit the exams. Very flexible. You can’t do that in NCEA, let alone jumping ahead to any level ahead.

In NCEA, everyone must progress thru the NCEA stairs/levels. Bright students can’t be accelerated thru the system.

BC said…
Perhaps NCEA spends more time teaching concepts in depth, which means they can’t cover as much content.

That’s why I bought the NCEA math textbooks, because I want to expose my students to as many varieties of problems as they can. NCEA math textbooks are supplement to the CIE pure math textbooks. I get them to do the exercises in the Cambridge math textbooks and also ones in the NCEA textbook (or NCEA year 13 past exam papers) in a specific topic. They do the exercises in the NCEA textbook much faster than they can complete similar problems in the Cambridge textbooks (or past CIE year 13 papers). The reason is that the level that is taught in Cambridge Exam curriculum has more depth than NCEA. I can tell this by comparing the depth and how hard the topics and problem exercises contain in both NCEA and Cambridge math textbooks. CIE textbooks cover all the topics in NCEA, plus they also cover first year University level calculus/algebra topics, such as 3D vectors, parametric equations (differentiation & integration), matrix algebra, etc…. CIE math is wider and deeper than NCEA.

There is nothing wrong with NCEA, its just a choice for the student, however if my students want to apply to top Universities such as CalTech or MIT in the US, then CIE is a recognized qualification for both of them (Check their websites). NCEA is not recognized over there by both CalTech nor MIT. I’m not anti-NCEA as you seem to think. I progressed thru the education system via the precursor to NCEA (bursary & scholarship exams). I’m just a fan of Cambridge, because it has a wider scope and depth, plus it is recognizable overseas if someone wants to apply to some prestigious universities in the US or the UK, that’s all. I view CIE as a ticket to everywhere.
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November 6, 2011 1:55pm
DJP6-25

Falafulu Fisi 10:37 am. I was doing alright at math until standard two. Then we started doing ‘New Maths’. Up until then, math was simple and logical. I was interested. ‘New maths’ was crap. So I switched off in math class. I understand it was dumped in the 1990s. Math books I’ve seen since then look logical.

cheers

David Prosser
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November 6, 2011 2:40pm
ste3e

What with National’s glamour boy seeing the mass fluttering of petticoats, and the Australian employed spin machine operating at dizzying speed it is easy to miss the simple facts. Selling state assets as proposed is not going to quit the largest government debt this country has ever seen, so where is the extra money coming from? It is not coming from the existing tax revenue take; existing levels would see the government borrowing to service the debt. It is supposed to be coming from a rejuvenated export sector earning a greater share of the world market. It is for this reason National keep harping on about restructuring the economy and returning workers to serf like status.

The problems, however, are obvious. No matter how efficient our export sector might be, it is only part of the equation, the most important part of the equation is the world market itself. What with Greece lurching from crisis to crisis, Ireland, Italy and Spain crossing their fingers, America trashing its own trillion dollar recovery package over partisan politics, we can at best expect the world market to be more competitive than it has ever been as everybody scrambles for export revenue to cover their own debts. And given America’s stance on our Pharmac the notion that there is “free trade” is laughable, we will take it where we are told or our trade prospects diminish.

So what is National’s contingency plan given Treasury’s forecasts about export revenue are bound to be off? The contingency plan is the ten millionth pouring over expenditure to remove the fat, which for a while now, has been looking increasingly like muscle and flesh. Meaning, the reduction of government expenditure by reducing state employment; this is only the removal of excess if it is the case that these people can be otherwise occupied in the private sector (to say nothing of the loss of diversity and quality of skills). Else it is simply a reallocation of government expenditure to bottom of the cliff government services required to wrap around (including imprison and hospitalize) otherwise contributing members of the local economy, and more importantly, society.

As National have admitted, if the export sector does not kick in as they dream employment will not come about. But even if the export sector does kick in the New Zealand government has always been a large provider of employment; public service, education related staff, medical related staff, legal related staff, down to the late Ministry of Works, and the cheapest option of all, those employed to do nothing on a fraction of the minimum wage, the unemployed. To believe National will change this, not only bunks historic fact, but also international experience; employment uptake is one of the only OECD indicators where New Zealand sits at right end. If oligarchic democracies such as mostly describe OECD nations have state employment similar or worse than our own then National are pushing an ideological agenda against what would seem to be a property of either human nature or oligarchic democracies. Simply shoveling ain’t going fix that.

The punt National would take with this country is the same as you borrowing upon your credit card against a possible pay rise. You can’t, and nor can National expect debt to be forgiven based upon a cry that a possible pay rise did not eventuate. Credit rating agencies agree, they gave National a downgrade even when presented with such a cry from Bill English. You either vote for this punt, or you vote for a cover defense that sees the tax take broadened to ensure this country will be able to pay its debt.
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November 6, 2011 2:47pm
Manolo

Enemies of the United States, unite: http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2011/11/04/occupy-atlanta-denies-rumors-of-partnership-with-nation-of-islam/
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November 6, 2011 2:49pm
reid

It is for this reason National keep harping on about restructuring the economy and returning workers to serf like status.

I must have missed National’s advocacy of serfdom, st. Do you have a link or were you just assuming business efficiency policies automatically aim to do precisely that? In which case, you don’t know very much about business improvement, do you.

As for the rest of what you said, I expect the Nats are hoping the TPP will be under their belt soon and its odd, isn’t it, that they’re not talking about what that means for Pharmac during this election.

But assuming it does that, the TPP isn’t a bad addition to the export sector. One of the most effective and energetic ministers is Grosser, or do you disagree?
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November 6, 2011 4:03pm
wat dabney

ste3e,

The essential point of capitalism is that it is free choices made by free people, and all in the absence of coercion (the incredible living standard it delivers to everyone is actually secondary.)

Hence serfdom and capitalism are mutually exclusive.
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November 6, 2011 4:26pm
ste3e

You are joking right? 90 days and I can simply fire you. Yes of course you mister American film guy can be assured the workers will do as they are told. No you silly student, this service is no longer available because not enough people have opted for it. No you teacher of a night class, you who would attend, National is not providing opportunities. Yes of course you Master corporate you can have an extra couple of thousand a week tax break. Restructuring the export sector is a synonym for breaking the backs of the worker, give people no opportunity but to do what employers wish of them… that smells like serfdom to me.
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November 6, 2011 4:31pm
Manolo

Scum posing for the camera: http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10764246&ref=rss
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November 6, 2011 4:35pm
ste3e

Wat,

The coercion you are talking of is military. The coercion I am talking of is monetary. The Slavic countries do not use monetary policy in the militaristic fashion National does.
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November 6, 2011 4:41pm
wat dabney

“The Slavic countries do not use monetary policy in the militaristic fashion National does.”

My mistake. I though I was having a discussion with an adult.
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November 6, 2011 5:31pm
reid

You are joking right? 90 days and I can simply fire you.

st have you no idea how the real world works, as opposed to how it works in your hallucination, which has obviously been implanted by evil people intent upon deceiving you for their own ends?

Basically what happens is, it costs the employer to hire someone and train them and it takes awhile before they get up to speed and that’s accepted, part of life. So employers obviously make every effort to pick the fastest learner, the most promising candidate, the one who fits with the current team, all that stuff. It’s in their best interest to do that.

So why, after 90 days, do you seem to imagine an employer would want to throw all of that away for you see st, often even after 90 days, they’ve barely become productive, depending on the role, some take longer, others don’t. But point is, in the real world as opposed to within your hallucination (which remember, evil people have implanted in you), after 90 days, it has actually cost the employer net, in almost all roles except the really easy ones like the guy on the stop/go sign at the road-works. Most roles however aren’t like that, at all.

So why on earth do you imagine in your hallucination implanted by evil people, it would be in an employer’s interest to just fire them all the time and just keep churning through them, just because they could?

I mean that’s fucking mental. It really is. What were you thinking, st?
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November 6, 2011 5:31pm
Lance

Just saw Robin Malcom talking at a Greens rally.
She thought JK didn’t know enough about economics…….. Bra hahahahahha
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November 6, 2011 5:41pm
Other_Andy

@Reid

Don’t waste your time.
Reason and logic goes way over ste3e’s head…
See wat dabney’s comment at 5:31 pm
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November 6, 2011 5:53pm
Steve

Who is Robin Malcom? Delahunty’s lost sister?
Outrageous
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November 6, 2011 5:57pm
reid

Reason and logic goes way over ste3e’s head…

Isn’t it frustrating, O_A.

I mean, one or the other, not good but acceptable. But both at the same time, permanently left the building. What a tragedy. No more reason. No more logic.

If lefties weren’t so full of hatred, bitterness, anger, envy and spite, it would be OK. Not good, but acceptable.

With that, plus no reason or logic, plus being full of hallucinations implanted by evil people, and they don’t know it, it’s a complete disaster for the entire world.

In some other ways it’s quite funny and that’s what I focus on, a lot, as a good conservative who basically enjoys watching people wallow in their own crapulence.
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November 6, 2011 6:04pm
Other_Andy

@Lance

“Just saw Robin Malcom talking at a Greens rally.
She thought JK didn’t know enough about economics…….. Bra hahahahahha”

Don’t be so dismissive Lance.
It might be funny she thinks Key doesn’t know anything about economics but do you know anybody else from the Green’s who knows more about economics than Robin?
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November 6, 2011 6:50pm
Pauleastbay

Jesus wept, I would have thought everyone in the world now knew, DO NOT take the blood test, go with breath, especially if you have a law degree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I despair.
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November 6, 2011 7:01pm
Jimbob

Why is a drink driving charge the number one news item on TV one?
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November 6, 2011 7:45pm
Pauleastbay

Surprised me to, seeing as according to the Daily Telegraph Lara Bingle has put on 5 kg. The producer must have been in a helluva state deciding
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November 6, 2011 7:51pm
nasska

Jesus, in a very worried state, convened all of his apostles and disciples to an emergency meeting because of the drug consumption problem all over the world.

After giving it much thought they reached the conclusion that in order to better deal with the problem, that they should try the drugs themselves and then decide on the correct way to proceed.

It was therefore decided that a commission made up of some of the members return to earth to get the different types of drugs.

The secret operation is effected and two days later the commissioned disciples begin to return to heaven.

Jesus, waiting at the door, lets in the first disciple:

“Who is it?”
“It’s Paul”
Jesus opens the door.
“What did you bring Paul?”
“Hashish from Morocco”
“Very well son, come in.”

“Who is it?”
“It’s Mark”
Jesus opens the door.
“What did you bring Mark?”
“Marijuana from Colombia”
“Very well son, come in.”

“Who is it?”
“It’s Matthew”
Jesus opens the door.
“What did you bring Matthew?”
“Cocaine from Bolivia”
“Very well son, come in.”

“Who is it?”
“It’s John”
Jesus opens the door.
“What did you bring John?”
“Crack from New York”
“Very well son, come in.”

“Who is it?”
“It’s Luke”
Jesus opens the door.
“What did you bring Luke?”
“Speed from Amsterdam”
“Very well son, come in.”

“Who is it?”
“It’s Judas”
Jesus opens the door.
What did you bring Judas?”
“The DRUG SQUAD…. EVERYONE AGAINST THE WALL!!
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November 6, 2011 8:00pm
RightNow

Just caught the gossip:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10764237

A post on David Farrar’s Kiwiblog by someone bizarrely calling himself “Courage Wolf” – purporting to be Brash himself – retorted defensively: “[Gower] tried hard to get me to talk about a range of issues which were quite irrelevant to my purpose in being at the Deloitte-Business NZ conference … I don’t often lose my temper, and I don’t often swear, but I was pushed too far.”

Courage Wolf? I mean, really?
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November 6, 2011 10:41pm
Other_Andy

This post….

Courage Wolf (559) Says:
November 2nd, 2011 at 11:51 am

I’m always hesitant to accuse a journalist of bias, but Patrick Gower has displayed an anti-ACT bias for quite some time. Yesterday, he tried hard to get me to talk about a range of issues which were quite irrelevant to my purpose in being at the Deloitte-BusinessNZ conference, and I declined to do so. He door-stopped me on three separate occasions during the day and I eventually lost my temper and refused to speak to him. I don’t often lose my temper, and I don’t often swear, but yesterday I was pushed too far.

“….purporting to be Brash himself..”
Nah
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November 6, 2011 11:01pm
RightNow

Which seemed to be a quote (it was in blockquotes).
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November 6, 2011 11:06pm
Black with a Vengeance

Now wouldn’t that be funny if it was, considering ?

# Courage Wolf (559) Says:
November 6th, 2011 at 11:15 am

Black with a Vengeance – so you support Labour? Well do you know what that makes you? A pussy-assed little compromising gutless piece of shit. True lefties support the Alliance, otherwise you are not a true lefty at all but someone who supports big businesses and is supported by big money like Labour does. You are a traitor, stop acting all high and mighty and go kill yourself you gutless little fuck.

[DPF: 50 demerits]

in which case i’d be assuming the Don was reminsicing about the war and his supporting the fascists in the Axis alliance…

…go figure ?
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November 6, 2011 11:39pm
ste3e

Watt

I have put up an adult argument illustrating the shortcoming of National’s approach to Government debt. Rather than dealing with the substantive argument you rant right wing cliches about some fairy land capitalist bs spin. To which I respond with the counterfactual that the Slavic countries do not threaten their citizens with being booted onto the street. Apparently this means I am not an adult… because I think your ideas are wrong headed and am able to articulate this fact I am not an adult. Very adult!

Reid

Obviously I have an idea of how the real world works, I am a living human being in it! I have no idea how the world works in your clique but it does not appeal. What is appealing about a mind so little it clings for dear life to a bunch of ideas whose contradictions lie scattered everywhere; in the jobs the free market finds better to ship offshore, whose people it can throw on the streets for not finding jobs that don’t exist, for the stress dished upon the dispossessed which animal like flails blindly against the children and the wives. Right wing policies kill people and privilege, no matter how it is earned, does not alter that fact or make it acceptable.
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November 7, 2011 12:03am
slijmbal

@Pauleastbay – said

“Jesus wept, I would have thought everyone in the world now knew, DO NOT take the blood test, go with breath, especially if you have a law degree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I despair.”

you would be surprised how often they lose the test results …………….

The blood test generally returns higher levels than the breath test but as the punishment for excessively high levels is generally the same as marginally over the limit levels then it’s worth the punt
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November 7, 2011 12:20am

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