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November 28, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 November 2011

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General Debate

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hmmokrightitis

You have your mandate JK, use it. Please.
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November 28, 2011 8:04am
Pete George

Abysmal turnout and worrying reduction in support highlighted in Dunedin.

And excuse city lights up on the Standard – nothing is Labour’s fault, attack the messenger is still the favoured mode of denial.
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November 28, 2011 8:05am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

So in the cold light of day, John Banks has done well for himself. Three years as a cabinet minister to do as he pleases. Nice work if you can get it.
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November 28, 2011 8:14am
nasska

For a light hearted look at personalities & parties involved in Saturdays ‘Big Day Out’: http://www.getfact.co.nz/Articles/National/are-you-suffering-from-election-problems.html
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November 28, 2011 8:18am
Manolo

The whorish Dunne enjoys the rewards of his “efforts” http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/election-2011/6045462/Dunne-settles-in-for-10th-term
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November 28, 2011 8:18am
Murray

We won, you lost, eat that.
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November 28, 2011 8:22am
Elaycee

With luck, we will now be spared the bleats from the perennial wannabe candidate – Penny Bright.

With just 106 votes out of a possible ~31,500 votes cast in Epsom, this equates to a spanking of monumental proportions. The 0.3% (Yup – she ‘won’ less than three tenths of one per cent of the vote), Water Woman has been given the best message possible: no-one gives a toss about her conspiracy theories and her bullshit.

On three occasions in recent times, Penny has been spanked by the electorate. But this has to be her worst result – 106 votes.

Yup – whilst there were some strange results on Saturday night, this one was entirely predictable.
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November 28, 2011 8:38am
Murray

The peoples lap dog will never stop yapping till she lockled away, as she sould be givern her public documentation of her illegal activites.
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November 28, 2011 8:41am
Keeping Stock

@ Manolo; I have no issues at all with Dunne. He is a competent Revenue Minister; the job that no-one else wants. And I hope that he has the opportunity to complete his review of the Child Support system, and enact legislation which is fair to all parties.
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November 28, 2011 8:43am
ciaron

someone asked: The 2.8% of people who voted conservative. What were they thinking? No chance of 5%. No chance of a electoral seat. All they did was push national under 50%. Why did they bother going to vote at all??

I’ll tell you why I voted Conservative; Keys reversal on global warming (and the tart reply I got from his office when I questioned it) and his ignorance of the CIR result (behavior expected from Clark, not Key).
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November 28, 2011 8:52am
Rick Rowling

The latest Ray Margan poll reports an 84.75% correlation between voting for Winston and owning an Andre Rieu DVD.
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November 28, 2011 8:52am
Scott Chris

91kg Eight Year Old Put Into Foster Care:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/6046804/91kg-eight-year-old-put-in-foster-care

Interesting case. Whilst this appears to be a clear case of child neglect, where should the government draw the line? Tricky.
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November 28, 2011 8:55am
dime

I heard an Andrew Little sound bite on ZB this morning.

Apparently losing New Plymouth had nothing to do with him and wasnt his fault HAHAAH what a cock!

People just didnt want change lmao no, people didnt want a smarmy union stooge
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November 28, 2011 9:00am
calendar girl

Ciaron @ 8: 52 – well said, lest we forget.
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November 28, 2011 9:00am
Murray

As long as labour keeps finding excuses for everything not beign their fault they will remain in opposition.

Approved.
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November 28, 2011 9:03am
Elaycee

“As long as labour keeps finding excuses for everything not being their fault they will remain in opposition. Approved.”

Hah!

Ka-ching!
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November 28, 2011 9:09am
Manolo

Keeping Stock at 8.43 am, I do respect your opinion. Fair enough.

By the way, where is that overwhelmingly successful candidate Penny Bright? Maybe still on the piss after receiving a massive vote of confidence from the electorate?
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November 28, 2011 9:13am
Murray

Maybe shes still “assisting police with their investigation”.
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November 28, 2011 9:20am
tom hunter

where is that overwhelmingly successful ….?

A question that may also be asked of: ross, ste3e, BWAV, Luc, mikenmild, ….. and the other left-wing trolls. Funnily enough there seemed to be two groups, one that vanished as the election started (I’m thinking mikenmild was on the union duty roster) and another group that appeared at the same time (e.g. ross).

All designed to up the noise-to-signal ratio of course.

Still, despite the frustration of losing the election so badly they should be feeling fairly pleased with themselves – if they give more thought to structural / cultural control rather than that of treasury. Almost everything is still in place, waiting for them when they return in 2014 or 2017.
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November 28, 2011 9:29am
hmmokrightitis

@dime

Spoke to a range of people here in New Plymouth yesterday. Including a good friend who has quite literally voted labour all her life, poor thing. The almost overwhelming consensus was that no one wanted to vote for a carpet bagger; it was that JYoung was that good, it was that ALittle was THAT bad. As for my friend, JY and labour party vote was her dead rat to swallow 🙂

Little was in one of our favourite cafes here in town last week, seeking a photo with the well known owner. Thankfully she less than politely declined, and despite me urging her on didnt throw him out.

Little can now fuck off back to Wellington, well and truly smacked by what used to be a marginal (< 200 majority in 2008) electorate that he has made well and truly blue again. Thanks ya dipshit 🙂
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November 28, 2011 9:44am
Keeping Stock

Interesting figures on who supports whom for the Labour leadership, if Goff and King decide to vacate their roles. At present it seems that the Parker/Robertson ticket has the advantage by a ratio of two to one.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-has-numbers.html
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November 28, 2011 9:48am
leftyliberal

A most interesting election night – quite a few tight seats and some others were swinging around early on before settling into clear victories (eg Palmerston North, Epsom).

That Winston got in suggests that the polls are not representative. I’m not sure who they’re not representative of – the advanced votes for NZF (which typically includes resthomes and the like) were pretty similar to the ordinary votes, so one presumes it wasn’t necessarily his typical demographic that swung things that much. Similarly, Nats down around 5%, Labour about right, Greens around a percent lower (but possibly up on specials?)

Didn’t catch all that much early election night coverage – tuned in around 10 after getting updates online before then. Not particularly impressed with what I saw on TV1 in terms of organisation, but I guess that’s what you get after a few hours of not much to comment on!
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November 28, 2011 9:54am
leftyliberal

Was at my Mums place in Napier. Labour dropped around in the morning to see whether anyone needed driven to vote, they rang later in the day to ask the same thing, so looks like they were trying to get folk out to vote (everyone had voted before they called around, and noone there voted either Labour or Nash).

The implosion of Act has seen the right reduce their overall vote – I think they’ll be OK this term, though it may mean that Iwi get a nice chunk of the assets set aside for them, though one presumes they would have taken it already? Will be interesting to see what Banks is given and what Act becomes (if anything).
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November 28, 2011 9:59am
Elaycee

@Keeping Stock: I heard King talking to Mike Hosking (NewstalkZB) this morning – she said she’ll announce her intentions tomorrow to Labour’s caucus, but indicated she’ll still be deputy leader on Wednesday. Go figure.

For Labour to have anything on which to build, they need a clean out of the deadwood. Starting with Goff / King / Mallard.
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November 28, 2011 10:03am
Pete George

NZF support patterns on the night were interesting. Started strong (early votes), eased down (smaller rural electorates) and then came back up again (city/Labour support shift). Possibly.
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November 28, 2011 10:03am
dime

hmmokrightitis – thats just great!

Thank god we dont have to suffer through that prick being leader.

David Parker made a cock of himself election night too. TV1 asked him if this was a thrashing he instantly replied “no a thrashing was national in 2002”. What a dipshit. People dont really care about 9 years ago parker. how about some humility? how about – yes it is, we need to change. No leadership shown from that douche bag.

Cunliffe will be the next leader
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November 28, 2011 10:06am
Keeping Stock

@ Elaycee; Labour traditionally has a vote on the leadership at the start of each year after the election, so I’m guessing that Goff and King will announce tomorrow that they will not contest that vote. That will give potential candidates time to run proper campaigns, rather than just be annointed as Goff was.
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November 28, 2011 10:16am
hmmokrightitis

@dime, yes, I saw him in that interview as well, when he quite happily (and without even pause for breath) lumped Winston’s lot in with labour and the Greens to try and claw some respectability back from what was and is a good old fashioned rout.

Poor wee lambs. The Standard has been muted indeed, with only the odd squeal about ignorant voters. They really don’t get it do they? The temptation to go and start asking pertinent questions over there is almost overwhelming, but watching them stew in their own juices is quite delicious 🙂
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November 28, 2011 10:17am
David Garrett

Which job has little still got? With so many hats I forget which one he gave up and which he kept….
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November 28, 2011 10:17am
Elaycee

@Keeping Stock – Gotcha. Thanks. 🙂
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November 28, 2011 10:25am
hmmokrightitis

David, I believe he has sole responsibility for increasing Nationals NP vote. I expect to see photos of SJoyce and Little swapping a handshake and a brownbag very soon…
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November 28, 2011 10:26am
Fletch

@ciaron,

I also voted Conservative Party. If everyone who wanted to vote conservative actually did, and put aside the naysaying voices that said, “you’re wasting your vote”, then I’m sure they would have got over 5%. I think they did very well being the party with the 5th largest result after only being in the running for 3 months. Just imagine what they could do in the time before the next election with more folks behind them.
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November 28, 2011 10:44am
Manolo

The deeply charismatic Andrew Little is of the main architects of Labour’s triumph.
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November 28, 2011 10:48am
Murray

It would be very stupid of the media, the labour party and national to write of a party that gets 2.8% out of the blocks.

Given three years of developing some more mature policies they will certainly be a significant player in the next election.

Or put it this way, they got nearly three times what Mana collected.
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November 28, 2011 10:55am
KevinH

Even though he got a thrashing Little made it in on the list. Apart from that the result was an anti climax, nothing to dramatic, the Nats got their majority although slim, Labour got a hiding, and Winston coasted back in on the back of left wing dissatisfaction.
The Maori Party have good reason to be concerned, the relationship with the Nats has backfired on them with a significant portion of their voters defecting back to Labour. At one stage on Saturday night Pita Sharples had good reason to be concerned, a resurgent Jones was pushing through and could of pulled it off if he had put more energy into Tamaki Makarau. No doubt Labour smell blood in the Maori electorates and will be looking to capture them in 2014.
That aside ACT survived again and that proved beyond any doubt the impact of tactical voting in Epsom and that with the right signals the electorate will respond. Equally the same applied in Ohariu where tactical voting won the day.
The Left didn’t tactically vote at all and were disjointed altogether. The Greens played their own game, with their own future in mind and were of little to no use for Labour who are paying the price for those Clark years where Labour kept the door shut on the Greens.
The low turnout however was the biggest concern on the night, 73.8%. Despite good debates and plenty of media coverage a significant number of registered voters didn’t get out of bed, a dissappointing outcome for a small democracy such as New Zealand. You do invariably ask as to what does it take to engage people, next time perhaps.
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November 28, 2011 11:09am
backster

I think Labour should persuade Piripi to hang on as leader. Sure he was a dismal failure this election, but next time he is likely to be a better failure.
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November 28, 2011 11:14am
hmmokrightitis

@KevinH

“resurgent Jones was pushing through and could of pulled it off…”

Oh god, please, no more, thats enough…
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November 28, 2011 11:16am
Yvette

With international climate change negotiations beginning in South Africa tomorrow – a report by the World Development Movement reveals that threats and bribery are often attached to aid packages.
The report also highlights how wealthy nations use secret meetings to produce last-minute deals – presenting poorer countries with a fait accompli, as happened in Copenhagen two years ago, when delegates had an hour to read the final document drawn up by 26 countries.
The negotiations in Durban are the last chance to set binding targets on greenhouse gas emissions before the Kyoto agreement expires next year.

– http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/rich-nations-accused-of-climatechange-bullying-6268679.html

Quite apart from the gist of this article it is the first mention I have seen of ‘international climate change negotiations beginning in South Africa tomorrow’ [in fact, today]
I may have missed other comment – easily done – but I do wonder that we have an ETS doomed to economically handicap us, and there is no importance attached to this event in South Africa. Was it just missed in the media rush to boost Peters, via his lies* over the teacup tape, into meteoric status, or is it just a quiet playdown, while Climate Change is dismissed but we are still saddled with the non-sensible ETS.

And …
If Goff is to step down for loosing the Election, what of campaign mastermind Mallard?

[* illegal on Monday, here’s what is in it by Thursday afternoon]
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November 28, 2011 11:21am
dime

Had a look at the standard. Mean little fuckers arent they!

Pete George – dunno why you bother over there. Good on ya though! How many votes did you get Saturday? WOuld you stand again?
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November 28, 2011 11:23am
James Stephenson

@Fletch and ciaron – I think the success of the Conservative party demonstrates what can be achieved by a big advertising spend on an already recognised international brand. I had never really considered voting for them, but heard Craig on with Willie & JT and thought “what a douche”.
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November 28, 2011 11:23am
MT_Tinman

I doubt the Conservatives will trouble the scorers in 2014 either. NZers tend to shy away from any sort of fundamentalism as various Christian parties found out

ACT made an initial hit because they were right-wing liberals led by people with records of doing what needed to be done.

Should ACT get back to that, reverse the Hide/Brash vandalism, then I suspect ACT will again become the only right-of-National party worth supporting.
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November 28, 2011 11:24am
Manolo

What happened to Strauss-Kahn? http://media.nybooks.com/strauss.html
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November 28, 2011 11:26am
Pete George

How much of the Conservative support is natural Conservative/Christian, how much is protest (the not-Act vote), how much is earned from policy and personality, and how much is the weight of dollars? No other small party would have had anywhere near their advertising budget.
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November 28, 2011 11:30am
Lazybum

The Mad Butcher said it was a good result when he spoke to Leighton Smith this morning.
I bet Fenton’s beer is flat.
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November 28, 2011 11:42am
RF

Heard that old tusker King talking to Mike Hosking on News Talk ZB this morning. She reminds me of a senile old aunt of mine who used to forget where she lived. She was gabbling on about how their policies were very good and they will come back fighting. She believes that she will still be the deputy leader – that will result in another 3 years in opposition come 2014.
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November 28, 2011 11:42am
ciaron

“what a douche”.

I hold a similar opinion of Key. There is now more than a whiff of a sanctimonious regard for the people which was not there 3 short years ago. Maybe Helen was right after all… (not that you could trust her either :))
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November 28, 2011 11:49am
grumpyoldhori

The Maori party would be fucking dumb to join the Nats again, what with patients becoming customers once more in hospitals no doubt and the family silver being hocked off cheap there will be some pissed off voters.
So which Merchant bank will do well this time ?
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November 28, 2011 11:55am
ciaron

@ Pete George, +1 protest (the not-National/Act/United Future/Green/Labour/Maori/Mana/Winnie Again vote.)
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November 28, 2011 12:03pm
Weihana

Given that MMP is staying, perhaps its time to think how modifications to the MMP system could assist the right wing. With National swallowing up almost the entire right-wing vote they have fewer options for coalition partners. Having faith that the conservative party will increase their share over the next three years is optimistic given how much was put into this election and also that the same concerns will exist next time that a vote for conservative is a wasted vote.

Getting rid of the 5% threshold and making it equivalent to one seat would encourage the development of third parties, it would provide a more accurate reflection of people’s attitudes which would be much less affected by concerns that their vote would be wasted. Most important of all it would reduce the likelihood that a strong third party like Winston First held the balance of power, thereby providing more coalition options for both sides of the political spectrum and reducing the ability of a strong third party to hold the government to ransom.
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November 28, 2011 12:21pm
Fletch

As far as the Conservative Party, they aren’t really labelling themselves as “Christian”. I think Craig said that himself.

Here are Colin Craig’s own words on a Q & A session with the Omaru Mail about a month ago.

Question from George- “do you base your policies on good Christian principles?”

Colin Craig- “Hi George. Not a Christian party. Common sense is my main thing and the basis of our policies. Practical results more important than ideology.”

h/t Redbaiter

I think ordinary kiwis are fed up with the social engineering in this country.

88% of people voted to be allow to smack their children in the official referendum, and most polls on the subject get the same results. I believe that most Kiwi’s don’t want the foreshore and seabed given to Maori. On the Climate Change front, a Close Up poll had 77% of people sceptical about human-caused climate change, and yet NZ is still going ahead with the stupid ETS.

These are just some of the things that the Conservative party agree with ordinary Kiwis on. Nothing particularly ‘Christian’ about it, although it is in line with Christian (and just plain old sensible) ideals.
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November 28, 2011 12:23pm
Manolo

The Maori party would be fucking dumb to join the Nats again..

Money will be shown and your “proud” lot, the racist Maori Party, will go to bed with Labour lite (again).
Otherwise, they will marry the highest bidder. Politics, whanau style.
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November 28, 2011 12:28pm
KH

Do the Nat have a mandate for the so called asset sales.
See the stuff poll. http://www.stuff.co.nz/
3500 votes so far and counting. 4 to 3 say the Nats don’t hae the mandate.
Time for compromise.
I don’t think the Government need to own everything. Or continue forever to acquire and never divest.
But New Zealanders need to continue to own anything Strategic. eg Banking, Land, Electiricty and anything with a wiff of natural monopoly. eg airports.
Shareholding should be limited to New Zealand Citizens, Iwi, Kiwisaver funds and the like.
In addition to the already announced 10% upper limit on holdings etc.
That’s a compromise. And not too far from the already announced position.
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November 28, 2011 12:28pm
Scott Chris

Interesting to see the Conservative Party’s success. I think social conservatives mean well, but are simply out of touch with modern social reality. Traditional values are fine (mainly) for those who believe in them, but they can’t be forced upon people who don’t see the point in them.

Hopefully Banks will defect to the Conservatives, so that ACT can return to its core classically liberal principles. Maybe that was the plan all along.
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November 28, 2011 12:30pm
Elaycee

The [pisshead] Clown of Campbell’s Bay [Andrew Williams] is off already with a firm dose of ‘foot in mouth’ – he was on the radio this morning spouting how he was going to Parliament to represent the people of the North Shore (Auckland). Bwahahahaaaaaaa.

The moron got 828 votes and snuck in via the Peters party protest vote. Maggie Barry is the elected MP for North Shore and on the night her vote was 20,494.

Its patently clear that the ability to tell lies is still near the top of the list for candidate attributes within the Peters Party. In the case of Williams, old habits die hard.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10769275
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November 28, 2011 12:31pm
Fletch

Traditional values are fine (mainly) for those who believe in them, but they can’t be forced upon people who don’t see the point in them.

Scott, that’s just it. I don’t think any “forcing” needs to be done. I think (as per my post above) that most Kiwi’s are already conservative in nature (as demonstrated by polls on the smacking law and ETS etc) and only have to come out of their comfort zones and vote for a party other than one of the two big ones.
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November 28, 2011 12:43pm
Weihana

KH (376) Says:
November 28th, 2011 at 12:28 pm

Do the Nat have a mandate for the so called asset sales.

What is considered a mandate I suppose is the more important question. A majority of parliament would seem, in my view, to constitute a mandate. It’s not as though this issue concerns our electoral system or other fundamental rights. It’s a question of strategy and what best serves New Zealand. Key won the election now he gets to implement his policy and in three years we decide again whether it was a good move or a bad one.

As with any significant changes it should proceed with caution but given that it was a central issue in the run up to the election and that National won the election, then it’s hard to see how Key doesn’t have a mandate. Doesn’t really matter how many Stuff polls you have. The only relevant poll was held on the weekend. Whether or not people entirely agreed with National’s position is irrelevant since they gave power to National to form a government thus conceding that their stance on asset sales, even if disagreeable, was an acceptable price to pay for a centre-right government.
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November 28, 2011 12:43pm
leftyliberal

@Weihana: Agreed – much of the focus of this election was on asset sales, and given they’ve been re-elected they have every right to push them through. Given Key’s last term I expect them to approach the sales cautiously either way, with the safeguards (10% maximum shareholding etc.) as advertised put in place and possibly some considerations to get the Maori Party on board.

Personally I don’t think it’s the correct way ahead, preferring that the generators be kept in NZ hands, though more importantly should not be made to “compete” with each other at the expense of a unified investment in infrastructure.
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November 28, 2011 12:51pm
Lindsay Addie

Labour is blaming the earthquakes for their lousy showing in Chch.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/election-2011/92268/quake-had-impact-on-christchurch-vote,-say-candidates

Huh! Really???
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November 28, 2011 1:00pm
ciaron

Winnie spinning hard on radio live 🙂
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November 28, 2011 1:25pm
aitkenmike

Even though I am completely opposed to the proposed asset sales, I don’t see how you can argue that the incoming Govt doesn’t have a mandate for them. If the majority of people are opposed to asset sales (as most polls show), yet vote for a party who has them as a core platform, they deserve the Govt they get.
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November 28, 2011 1:28pm
Swifty

Guys, does anyone have the URL link to Key’s post election interview with Sainsbury on TVNZ around midnight on Saturday night. (The one where he was bedecked in streamers)?

Most grateful if you’d post it.

Swifty
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November 28, 2011 1:36pm
Bevan

If the majority of people are opposed to asset sales (as most polls show), yet vote for a party who has them as a core platform, they deserve the Govt they get.

You mean slanted polls with inaccurate questions?

If you ask the question, do you support Asset Sales? Yes/No – the vast majority of Kiwi’s would say No. But guess what happened when the Herald asked the if NZ supports Nationals partial asset sales plan? The result was firmly in support (58% in believe).
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November 28, 2011 1:40pm
aitkenmike

Either way, my main point is that you can’t argue that National has no mandate to do it. You can oppose it all you like, its just rubbish to say they have no mandate.
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November 28, 2011 1:47pm
KH

…………….. @ most of the comments immediately above about ‘mandate’
On balance I would think there is a mandate. Yes. The Nats said what they intended and the voters have given them the government. You cannot criticise the Nats for now doing what they said.
But it’s not a 100%, vote and I do not think they would betray their voters by limiting ongoing ownership to NZers.
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November 28, 2011 2:13pm
ste3e

Bevan

That, I would argue, is because the question was being asked in the context of the election! What should happen is that Hone should state quite clearly he would nationalise the state utilities National are flogging off and pay shareholders the value they paid of the shares or current market value whichever is the lesser. Winston should chime in to the effect that the notion is worthy of consideration, and that he deplores National’s irresponsibility toward the voting public who have ever remained opposed to the sales. Labour should chime in to the effect that they could not rule the position out but would have to wait for the 2014 election results. Thereby those silly enough to try and nick every body else’s assets would be forced into the morally correct position of providing the government in hard times with an interest free loan.

The Greens should oppose Hone’s motion upon the principle that they would rather see the 51% government shareholding used to secure the distribution network and reclaim that as a state asset thereby releasing the power generation aspect into pure private ownership. They would further argue for the funding to continue their housing policy to enable the wholesale solar panelarisation of houses. Surplus power would be fed into the now state owned distribution network, which itself would be transformed into a co-operative rather than a corporate. Thereby those silly enough to try and nick every body else’s assets would find themselves owners of a private power generation company only ever called upon in the rainy days; rather than owners of a utility which further milks those they nicked the assets from in the first instance.

Of course, these private power generators would still have their large Camalcos, private industrial users of large quantities of electricity. Makes you wonder, does it not, are the sold assets still going to offer the Camalcos subsidized electricity at the government’s direction?
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November 28, 2011 2:20pm
gravedodger

Re Water Woman, I’m told some one wrote her vote tally as 106.00 and she didn’t have her glasses on.
Poor old tarnished Ha’penny, gave change.
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November 28, 2011 2:31pm
Manolo

Traditional values are fine (mainly) for those who believe in them, but they can’t be forced upon people who don’t see the point in them.

Traditional values such as working hard in life, self-reliance and personal responsibility for your own actions, refusing to embrace a culture of thieving, entitlements, and handouts, raising a family to be best of our ability, and so on.

No, I did not vote Conservative, but I do sucribe to those “traditional values”.
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November 28, 2011 2:37pm
meh

o’connor is calling for people to march in the streets against asset sales….. talk about a party of sore losers!

Also don’t bother reading any articles or comments on stuff, the idiocy of some people is enough to drive you to drink!
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November 28, 2011 2:56pm
Weihana

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/mmp-referendum/6048309/Peters-wary-of-changes-to-MMP

Prime Minister John Key says MMP is a “weird” system when National can win a large majority but Parliament remains tightly balanced.

“But it’s a funny system when you can poll this massive number and still theoretically be wondering whether you’ve got a government.

“If this was First Past the Post and there were 100 MPs, there would be roughly 65 National seats and 35 Labour, so it would be this massive majority.

“Yet under MMP you sit there and go, ‘you’ve got this huge result and yet it still feels tight’.”

What does John Key find hard to understand about 48%? 48% is not a majority and National and Labour are not the only parties that count. It’s not a funny system where Parliament accurately represents the public: it’s called democracy.
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November 28, 2011 3:00pm
Rick Rowling

Unintentional joke of the day, from the Open Mike thread at The Standard

freedom 8
28 November 2011 at 8:26 am

The three principal reasons that NZ lost the Election to a Corpocracy

Television media
Print media
Radio media
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November 28, 2011 3:24pm
ciaron

Thats gold!
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November 28, 2011 3:27pm
ciaron

Big Trev sez: A clear victory for MMP means we can now focus on the tweaking necessary to improve the system. My view is that a threshold reduction to 4% and an abolition of coat tailing are good debates to have. Could be but not necessarily linked.

Fuckwit, only the early votes have been counted.
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November 28, 2011 3:30pm
bereal

Here is a dude that can play bass guitar.
Qu’est-ce c’est ?
relax for a moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48N3lP42qdA&feature=related
i hate people when there not polite
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November 28, 2011 5:45pm
wat dabney

I know many here read Watts Up anway, but this letter is priceless, exposing how senior climate “scientist” Phil Jones repeatedly lied to cover up the fact that he could not provide basic raw data because they are such a shambles (that’s the raw data which underpins the whole AGW scare):

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/27/an-open-letter-to-dr-phil-jones-of-the-uea-cru/
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November 28, 2011 6:12pm
Steve

The Clown of Campbells Bay claims he will represent the people of North Shore. No you won’t Williams, you do not and will not represent me.
The only people you represent are the 828 morons who voted for you, and I bet they now wish they had not.
List Scum
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November 28, 2011 6:32pm
wat dabney

Incidentally, there are some pieces on NZ Climate Change about the Climategate 2.0 emails and the sordid behaviour of the well-known “scientists” perpetuating the scam:

http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/
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November 28, 2011 6:32pm
reid

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/707568901000000-how-and-why-banks-increased-total-outstanding-derivatives-record-107-trillion-6

Gee that’s good news, isn’t it.
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November 28, 2011 6:56pm
Other_Andy

@wat dabney

Good news.
Canada to pull out of Kyoto Protocol next month.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20111127/durban-south-africa-slimate-conference-setup-111127/

Abolish the ETS!
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November 28, 2011 7:02pm
reid

This is the second article I’ve seen on this. I predict this will become a huge market in all sorts of security areas.

http://www.homelandsecuritynewswire.com/dr20111125-lapd-to-rely-solely-on-computers-to-fight-crime
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November 28, 2011 7:11pm
reid

Does this sound familiar?

Didn’t Hulun follow Blair’s Third Way? I recall she was quite the protege.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/jeffrandall/7978588/Tony-Blair-has-rewritten-history-without-modesty-or-shame.html
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November 28, 2011 7:18pm
wat dabney

reid,

“$707,568,901,000,000: How (And Why) Banks Increased Total Outstanding Derivatives By A Record $107 Trillion In 6 Months”

People should remember that when they argue that the state should own banks, with the limitless liability that implies.
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November 28, 2011 7:21pm
bereal

to quote Barry Soper, tonight on Zb.

“the Maori party will now want a share of the spoils when the assets are sold.”

“A share of the SPOILS. ” ???

And this disgrace is the, “political editor ?” Unbiased, etc. etc.

This wanker is a disgrace .

What about,
“All New Zealanders will now have an opportunity to invest in the assets in their own country ?”

Not in this morons mindset.
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November 28, 2011 7:29pm
IDUNNO1983

Can anyone answer the following questions:

What kind of percentage would the Nats need to get in the specials to MAINTAIN 60 seats?

What kind of percentage would the Nats need to get in the specials to INCREASE to 61 seats?
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November 28, 2011 7:37pm
reid

…the global warming scare is far and away the greatest scientific scandal of our generation. When we then contemplate the insanity of the measures the politicians have imposed on us in consequence, we know we are looking at a collective flight from reality which has no precedent in the history of the world.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8917737/Is-the-global-warming-scare-the-greatest-delusion-in-history.html

Why yes. Yes it is. But alarmists have this emotive thing going, like lefties and poor people, AGW’s a tummy thing, for many people.

And when it’s a tummy thing, no way are people going to turn away from what their tummy says.

Same tactic they used to embed the anti-nuke thing here but this time, it’s global.

And wemember, if you disagwee, that means you hate the pwanet.
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November 28, 2011 7:42pm
reid

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2066240/Second-leak-climate-emails-Political-giants-weigh-bias-scientists-bowing-financial-pressure-sponsors.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2066706/BBC-sought-advice-global-warming-scientists-economy-drama-music–game-shows.html

So who thinks it’s not a planned propaganda and political campaign, now?

Bonus question:

What are the implications, given what all govts are now doing about it, if it is?
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November 28, 2011 7:48pm
nasska

“Hello?” the child says on the phone.

“Hi, honey, this is Daddy. Is Mummy near the phone?”

“No, Daddy,” says the little girl. “She’s upstairs in the bedroom with
Uncle Paul.”

After a brief pause, Daddy says, “But honey, you haven’t got an Uncle
Paul.”

“Oh, yes I do, and he’s upstairs in the room with Mummy, right now.”

Dad takes a deep breath. “Okay then, this is what I want you to do. Put
the phone down, run upstairs, knock on the bedroom door and shout to
Mummy that Daddy’s car just pulled into the driveway.”

“Okay, Daddy, just a minute,” says the little girl. A few minutes later,
the little girl comes back to the phone. “I did it, Daddy.”

“What happened, honey?” he asks.

“Well, Mummy got all scared, jumped out of bed with no clothes on and
ran around screaming. Then she tripped over the rug, hit her head on the
dresser and now she isn’t moving at all.”

“Oh, my God! What about your Uncle Paul?” asks Dad in a panic.

“He jumped out of the bed with no clothes on, too. He was all scared
and he jumped out of the back window and into the swimming pool.
But I guess he didn’t know that you took out all the water last week to
clean the pool. He hit the bottom of the pool and I think he’s dead.”

There’s a long pause on the phone.

Then Daddy says, “Swimming pool? Is this 486-5731?”
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November 28, 2011 8:01pm
Monique Watson

Ha, I pulled out of running a month before the election and I still got more party votes (Wellington Central) than water woman.
And:
You telling me that climate change isn’t real? That perhaps it’s part of the whole socialist mindset? Go figure.
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November 28, 2011 8:20pm
Monique Watson

ha ha, swimming pool.
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November 28, 2011 8:22pm
Atheist1

Not sure where this myth has arisen that the Conservatives are not a Christian party. Picked up a Christian newspaper at the hotel I was staying at in Taupo over the weekend. It was focussed largely on Colin Craig and quoted him as saying he would ‘like a society founded on biblical principles and scripture’. So really the Conservative Party should come clean about what they’re really all about before too many other true libertarian Kiwis are fooled
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November 28, 2011 8:34pm
Steve

I’m not going to test that number, it could be the Clown from Campbells Bay
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November 28, 2011 8:35pm
nasska

Monique Watson

I doubt that Water Woman will see it that way. About six months ago ‘Elaycee’ & ‘reid’ spent an afternoon trying convince the wet one that receiving less votes than the number of spoiled papers in a Local Body election wasn’t winning.

From memory they conceded defeat after five hours.
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November 28, 2011 8:38pm
Keeping Stock

@ Bereal; that “dude” you refer to is actually a woman; Tina Weymouth, former bass player for Talking Heads

But that is one mean clip; I’ve watched it a few times before; real nostalgia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Weymouth
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November 28, 2011 9:06pm
Viking2

A mechanic was removing a cylinder head from the engine of a Harley Davidson
motorcycle when he spotted a well-known heart surgeon in his shop…
The mechanic shouted across the garage, “Hey, Doc, can I ask you a question?”
The surgeon a bit surprised, walked over to the mechanic working on the motorcycle.
The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked,
“So Doc, look at this engine. I open its heart, take the valves out, fix ’em, put ’em back in,
and when I finish, it works just like new. So how come I get such a small salary
and you get the really big bucks, when you and I are doing basically the same work?”
The surgeon paused, smiled and leaned over, and whispered to the mechanic…
“Try doing it with the engine running.”
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November 28, 2011 9:09pm
nasska

Little Johnny came running into the house and asked, “Mummy, can little girls have babies?”
“No,” said his mum, “of course not.”

Little Johnny then ran back outside and his mum heard him yell to his friends, “It’s okay, we can play that game again!”
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November 28, 2011 9:14pm
Viking2

Copy this inmto your browser. I think it will work.

Maken dat je weg bent – Sauve qui peut.wmv
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November 28, 2011 9:18pm
Viking2

An elderly man was stopped by the police around 2 a.m. and was asked where he was going at that time of night.

The man replied, “I’m on my way to a lecture about alcohol abuse and the effects it has on the human body, as well as smoking and staying out late.”

The officer then asked, “Really? Who’s giving that lecture at this time of night?”

The man replied, “That would be my wife.”
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November 28, 2011 9:23pm
laworder

Weihana wrote

Getting rid of the 5% threshold and making it equivalent to one seat would encourage the development of third parties, it would provide a more accurate reflection of people’s attitudes which would be much less affected by concerns that their vote would be wasted. Most important of all it would reduce the likelihood that a strong third party like Winston First held the balance of power, thereby providing more coalition options for both sides of the political spectrum and reducing the ability of a strong third party to hold the government to ransom.

Totally agree. Would also deal with the overhang issue, and get rid of the need for small parties to do deals to get electorate seats as in Epsom. The current situation really is not satisfactory, with three parties in the 1% region having MP’s and one with 2.7% having none at all. remedying this would also increase electoral engagement, and encourage more people to vote.

The downside is we might end up with loons like the Right Wing Resistance or the National Front getting in, but 1) I doubt they are capable of organising themselves to manage it and 2) if they do, rather have them there where we can all keep an eye on them and have them demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that they are utter morons.

Regards
Peter J
Webmaster for http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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November 28, 2011 9:28pm
nasska

Stuff.co.nz – “Auckland researchers have been awarded almost $800,000 to study pornography. ”

And I’ve been doing this shit for free since I was 12..
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November 28, 2011 9:33pm
reid

Getting rid of the 5% threshold and making it equivalent to one seat would encourage the development of third parties, it would provide a more accurate reflection of people’s attitudes which would be much less affected by concerns that their vote would be wasted. Most important of all it would reduce the likelihood that a strong third party like Winston First held the balance of power, thereby providing more coalition options for both sides of the political spectrum and reducing the ability of a strong third party to hold the government to ransom.

Well if you wanted to stop the tail wagging the dog why the hell didn’t you vote for SM? That’s what it does.

The issue with MMP is precisely what you say it does: provide a more accurate reflection of people’s attitudes.

This would be OK if many people weren’t mental, but they are. Look at some of the people who’ve been elected. You think it’s a good thing some of these idiots are paid what – $3-400k p.a. to be fed and watered and spout their idiotic impractical nonsense? Why?
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November 28, 2011 9:46pm
NSane

Has anyone more info that Magube’s in a coma in a Singapore hospital or is it another wild rumour ?
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November 28, 2011 10:22pm

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