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November 25, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 November 2011

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General Debate

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Michaels

Last day folks, vote right.
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November 25, 2011 8:03am
Lindsay Addie

My predictions using the election calculator on the election website to calculate the seat allocations:

National 49% = 66 seats
Labour 25% = 33 seats
Greens 13% = 17 seats
ACT 1.5% = 2 seats
Maori 1% = 4 seats
Mana 1% = 1 seat
NZ First 4.5%

The percentage of the votes that end up going to waste is going to be key on election night. I don’t think Peters will get back in and only one of Dunne or Banks will win their electorate seats.

SUMMARY: A National/Maori Party coalition government with ACT and Dunne (if they win their respective seats).
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November 25, 2011 8:12am
Elaycee

Whaaaaat?

“…. $790,000 study by University of Auckland staff will look at the relationship between pornographic movies and people’s real lives, ….”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/6030982/Pornography-project-given-790-000
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November 25, 2011 8:14am
KiwiGreg

Happy Thanksgiving Americans.
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November 25, 2011 8:17am
ciaron

Well, looking out from my office window, I can see the roof is off the Grand Chancellor, and it looks like the top 3 levels have been cleared also.
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November 25, 2011 8:27am
Lucia Maria

Oh good, a porn study. Will have to add that to my post that I’ll probably publish tomorrow. Certainly long over due here in NZ.
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November 25, 2011 8:41am
East Wellington Superhero

PLEASE DON’T VOTE CONSERVATIVE – IT’S A WASTE OF YOUR VOTE.
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November 25, 2011 8:42am
barry

David – I heard you on the panel yesterday tell us that you are off to Africa in the next few days to experience being the big bwana……….

Im not sure where you are going, but while you are there try to find out what the place was like when it was at its best. Most places in africa were at their best the day before the colonial power pulled out. I recall places like Tanganyika and Rhodesia being major exporters of meat and grain to europe. Today they are basket cases. Im sure most African countries have suffered a similar fate.

While you wonder at the stupidity that has taken over the continent since the colonial powers pulled out, think about the fact that the U.N replaced the colonials. The U.N has obviously not been a positive influence on africa.

And while you think about this – think about the influence the U.N. is having world wide. The U.N’s various declarations limit the sovereignty of all countries. Such things as the Kyoto emission agreement limit what a government can and cant do.
The declaration of rights of indigenous people sort of sidelines the treaty.
I could go on about trade and international relations indefinitely.

And while you ponder these important matters you might wonder if you are really wasting your time and energy working for a republican system and that maybe you should be more concerned about our head of state being in New York rather than in Wellington or London.

I know which one worries me witless – the one in New York.

So – come back refreshed and with a new zeal to worry about the things that really matter.
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November 25, 2011 8:45am
Murray

You got an authorisation statement there EWS?
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November 25, 2011 8:47am
Nookin

I see that Whale has a series of photos showing the waterwoman committing criminal and highly defamatory acts around Epsom. She and Seimer are two of a kind. Hopefully the police will take an interest.
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November 25, 2011 8:47am
Falafulu Fisi

For the ignorant lefties, here’s something to help you out with your idiotic/ignorant views of economics.

How the Economy Works

It will be good start for Black With A Vengeance and the likes.
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November 25, 2011 8:47am
KiwiGreg

@ barry – you do know that countries have to sign up for those goofy UN conventions? they aren’t imposed and in fact for example the US (and others) didnt sign up to Kyoto and NZ didnt (until recently) sign up for the stupid indigenous “rights” one. China is having a MUCH bigger impact on Africa than the UN.
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November 25, 2011 8:47am
JamesS

Why ACT will lose –

The ACT party will be annihilated tomorrow by obtaining around 40,000 party votes, losing Epsom and exiting Parliament forever.

There is a very simple reason for this demise – they have picked the wrong electorate to focus on.

The success of Rodney Hide in Epsom was due to the fact he had been a high profile list MP there for nearly a decade and ran a ‘Rocky’ campaign against an effete and disliked opponent in 2005. Between 2005 and 2008 he was a high profile and good local MP so people re-elected him (although few ever considered giving ACT their party vote).

Epsom is an electorate of ‘urban liberals’ (although less than most people think) in Mt Eden – which has enabled the Greens to do well there for years; but in Epsom and Remuera the people are the ‘conservative Right’ (for lack of a better description) and such people are, by definition, perfectly happy with the status quo.

When ACT comes along suggesting they are ‘The Liberal Party’ and announcing a long list of radical (and often bizarre) policies people in Remura and Epsom greet that with horror. Due to their underlying happiness with the status quo they are unconvinced that much is wrong with NZ, are instinctively opposed to anything ‘radical’, and are uncomfortable with the term ‘liberal’ in any case.

The other thing about the ‘conservative right’ is they are actually opposed to the sorts of policies undertaken by Richardson and Douglas and the harm it did to the less fortunate; although few people on the conservative right quite view themselves in this manner but they are, generally speaking, paternalist “one nation” Tories having more in common with Disraeli than Roger Douglas.
They see nothing particularly wrong with the status quo, see no reason to change it, but believe there most certainly is “such a thing as society” and that they have a duty to preserve it and help those in need.

It therefore seems weird the ACT party would choose that electorate (of all places) to ask people to jump on a hardline, right wing, free market, change making, reforming, radical bandwagon.

It was no accident that Richard Prebble picked Wellington Central to focus on – and won.
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November 25, 2011 8:49am
Falafulu Fisi

JamesS said…
free market

So, you despise/dislike free-markets?

And what is your definition of right-wing? Are you confused? Is National right-wing or left-wing?
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November 25, 2011 8:56am
KiwiGreg

As an Epsom voter, I love being told how I think and what I believe in by others.
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November 25, 2011 8:58am
Lucia Maria

Voting National is a waste of my vote, but I’m going to do it anyway in my electorate (it’s a Labour seat – National is never going to win it). My party vote however, is a protest vote and as such, it’s certainly not a waste.
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November 25, 2011 9:00am
Murray

Yeah it makes you feel jsut like Helen Clark was still here to boss us round doesn’t it Greg.
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November 25, 2011 9:00am
JamesS

Falafulu Fisi, the National party in a sense is actually neither left or right wing.

The National party is more of a “custodian” of the status quo.

If you look at the governments of Holland, Holyoake, Marshall and Muldoon these were not radical in any way, they were merely custodians to preserve things as they found them.

When National did some radical things 20 years ago with the ‘Mother of all budgets’ their supporters were horrified, half the party members quit and it took 15 years to recover.

John Key is popular because he does very little which scares anybody.
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November 25, 2011 9:01am
ste3e

Joseph Carpenter yesterday provided the single reasoned argument against the analysis below. I have posted my response to his after this post.

Even allowing that the government can borrow for less than you and I, the interest payment on the current $17 billion has to be some scary big number. Divide this number by 12 and you get the monthly bill the government must pay to simply cover interest on the debt. Add to that bill the monthly cost government must pay for education, health, welfare, justice, infrastructure, and disasters and you get close to the monthly expenditure government must meet. On the other side of the ledger government has money coming in from tax, dividends from state assets, and dividends from state savings funds such as ACC. Any shortfall between expenses and revenue the government meets by borrowing. At the current time National are borrowing money every day.

National’s plan is fourfold; sell state assets, reduce expenditure, increase foreign investment and increase export revenue, thereby they wish to increase revenue and decrease expenditure so they no longer have to keep borrowing, so let’s look at this.

Proceeds from sale of state assets are to go into a slush fund which will be diverted to pay for infrastructure. This will mean government borrowing to pay for infrastructure will not be needed, thus while the proceeds do not go directly to pay down debt, they do reduce expenditure. The question is, would removal of the need to borrow to fund infrastructure mean existing revenue would pay for existing interest on debt and government expenditure? My understanding is that it would not, and that National require either further reduction in government spending or increase in tax take to make it so.

Reduced expenditure is supposed to come from further efficiencies in the public sector. I doubt this is possible. In the first instance National have been paring back the public sector over the past 3 years and there comes a time when there is no more fat. And indeed, Pike River and the associated cost, it can be inferred, would not have occurred had the Labor department been adequately funded to ensure proper inspection of mines. One must also wonder at the Rena; would a fully functional and well funded public service have allowed the continuation of NZ’s legal position that sees us liable for foreign company’s accidents? Furthermore, and we have seen this in the past, demoralized public sectors seem to have a way of producing fraudsters that steal large amounts of money for long periods of time without getting caught. A further reason for doubting National’s ability to reduce expenditure is the 380 million upfront expenditure National are promising to remove beneficiaries from benefits; definitely not a saving in the short term, and depending on whether we end up like America, not a savings in the long term either.

The reason for increased foreign investment is to provide businesses. These make profits which are taxed, provide employment which reduces benefit expenditure and pays wages which are taxed, and introduce new skill sets that NZ business would not otherwise provide. The downside of foreign investment is that some investors demand tax and labour rates be low else they will not invest. And here rubbish has been spoken to the effect that foreign investors who demand low wage low tax provide skill sets. Any foreign investor that wants to employ educated people and train them in new skill sets is obviously going to expect to pay above minimum wage. Their incentive for being here is that comparatively, wages in their own countries cost more, tax in their own countries costs more (America and England around 50% top tax rate), both of which incentives held prior to National dropping top tax rates. The type of investment National are trying to attract by their dropping taxes and keeping wages low are the Super Cheaps, and the only skill sets they provide are the ability to wonder around after customers, occasionally operate a till, and stack shelves… now there is a brighter future!

But there is more to it than this. Setting the tax rate to attract foreign investors of this ilk has meant the government has had to borrow significantly more because it has not had the income required to cover expenditure. It has meant an exodus to Australia. Finally, while the majority of employees are paid minimum wage, the CEOs get million dollar salaries. Envy aside, the real objection is that a CEO living in NZ spends a certain amount of money in the local economy by way of living costs, the rest is banked/invested. Increasing CEO take home by reducing personal income tax does not mean the CEO suddenly lives bigger, they can already afford to live as big as they feel like, it means more money is invested. Most of which investment is offshore thus there is a further flight of money out of the local economy. The majority of people left to walk through the doors of small businesses are on minimum wage, and they inevitably walk through the doors of Super Cheap. So small business viability reduces, the tax take therefrom also, along with employment opportunity which leads to increase expenditure in welfare. Is not this precisely what we have seen with the adventure of The Warehouse into rural New Zealand?

In the final analysis, increasing foreign investment of this character means a tax rate too low to cover expenses. So National are left with increasing export revenue as the only way out of this mess. And this hope they set sail in the current world market. They tell us Treasury forecasts support their optimism. But these forecasts were calculated around the time American politicians decided to play Russian roulette with their debt repayment. That is before Italy and Spain started to quake, and before we heard whispers about France, definitely before American police were videoed pepper spraying unarmed non-hostile protestors in a scene reminiscent of “kneeling” Jews, and the latest American Super brain fart.

The situation for National is this. They will not significantly increase export revenue given the current world market, therefore they will not see a rise in tax revenue significant enough such that government expenditure can pay government bills, so they will borrow. This will mean the interest bill on the loan will increase which will require even larger growth in export revenue. It is a death knell, a downward spiral without a contingency plan.

Labour’s plan is to borrow to reinstate kiwisaver, remove gst on fruit and vege, and remove tax for the first $5000. They will increase the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Pay dole to employers and increase youth training. Increase top tax rates to levels prior to National’s reduction of them, and implement a capital gains tax that excludes private residence. They will not sell state assets. They will increase retirement age gradually from some future starting date. So how does their plan fare?

The removal of tax from the first $5000 and the increase in the minimum wage is not altogether a decrease in government revenue. An increase of $2 per hour is an increase of a little less than $5000 per year for someone working 40 hrs per week on minimum wage, and that $5000 is taxable. One would expect an increase in the minimum wage to bring about a desire in many employers to increase the wages of their staff. Although this would increase gains from personal tax, all else being equal it would reduce profitability for the company and therefore decrease tax there. But one would also expect there to be an increase in spending which is likely to offset increased business expenditure via greater sales, and to provide greater government revenue by way of gst.

As for youth loosing jobs, they will only loose those jobs that employers did not need done. If the employer needs a job done, and a youth is trained to do it then there is every chance that youth will be employed, especially in the case of trades where Labour will be offsetting employment costs by paying the dole to the employer. Furthermore, training of youth in fields youth are interested in has to make a better society than condemning them to the Super Cheaps.

Removing gst on fruit and vege is also difficult to quantify. Immediately it seems there would be a decrease in revenue as the government has simply quit taking gst on a range of goods. But if the reduction converts into increased demand for fruit and vege, which is the intention, then the viability of local growers selling into local markets increases. This means employment, including self-employment, and reduction of welfare expenditure. It means local businesses seeing money that generally tends to walk into Woolworths or New World, and the spending by local business in local economies.

For the long term, Kiwisaver is a no brainer, but even in the short term the increased borrowing to fund government contributions is somewhat offset. In the long term we just need to consider a fictional case of a 55year old who committed to Cullen’s fund and has just turned 60. For 5 years they contributed $1000 which was matched by the government (National’s wickedness never occurred in this world). The fund grew at 3% per year compounding. Most of the money was invested off shore. At 60 the retiree cashes in the fund and receives about $11,000 which is shipped from offshore to on shore where the retiree spends it in the local economy. Multiply this by years and by the amount of people in kiwisaver and we should be kicking ourselves that we never listened to Winston earlier.

But even in the short term government’s borrowing $1000 per kiwisaver is added to contributions from employer and the kiwsaver themselves, and the entirety is invested. A proportion of the investment will find its way to New Zealand companies strengthening their profitability and therefore the tax they pay. The kiwisaver investment companies themselves will turn taxable profits. The sale of shares as part of kiwisaver investment portfolios will have capital gains tax applied. But most importantly, as more and more people retire and cash in their funds there is more and more money coming in from offshore and being spent in local economies increasing the profitability of small businesses and the tax revenue government takes.

All of these plans are good for increasing the vibrancy of the local economy, but none of them deal with the problem of increasing government debt and the increasing size of the interest bill. In fact both debt size and interest bill are set to be larger under Labour’s plan, as Labour project to borrow more than National. The difference is, however, that National are totally screwed if export revenue does not significantly increase, for they will have to keep borrowing past a point where increased export revenue could rationally be expected to cover the generated interest bill. Labour, on the other hand, are setting in place streams of revenue that ensure a larger debt and consequent larger interest bill can be paid regardless of whether export revenue increases or not.

In the short term, government revenue is increased by revoking tax cuts National gave to the rich, and ETS compliance. One can add here the continuation of kiwisaver contributions whenever tax from return on that investment beats the interest government must pay on the loan to make the investment; and note, this is not a simple investment of a loan because it involves significant contributions from employers and kiwisavers. We can also add the continued full dividend provided by state assets that should never be sold, especially at the bottom of the market, and especially against the explicit wishes of the majority of the owners of those assets!

In the medium term capital gains tax snowballs expecting to return about $4 billion per year once settled. There will also be increasing numbers of retirees drawing down on offshore investments, including kiwisavers, and spending this money in local economies, most of which money meets the taxman sooner or later.

At the end of the day, under Labour, there will be pressure upon the government to reduce personal and company tax rates because government revenue is set to significantly exceed government expenditure. Confronted by this proposition it is difficult to conceive a scenario where Labour will not quit debt. Contrawise, given the current world economy, it is difficult to see how National will secure the export gains they require to cover expenditure, and this means it is difficult to see how National will not be trapped into a continued increase in debt.
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November 25, 2011 9:09am
ste3e

Joseph Carpenter

His argument is that Labour’s capital gains tax will never return the 4 billion Labour claim, therefore Labour’s borrowing will not be covered by the increase in revenue suggested. Note, he has not rebutted the principle claim that National will not be able to cover expenditure without an increase in export revenue, nor the claim that export revenue is unlikely to increase given the current world market. So basically he accepts the position that if National get back in they will be forced to either slash spending (such as police recruitment) and/or borrow to oblivion. For god’s sake, good ol’ Rob only managed to borrow 7 billion and we are currently sitting on 18 billion, a significant proportion of which was down to urgent legislation to guarantee finance companies such as Southern Canterbury Finance, who immediately went and rorted the new legal position… good thing Key has been studying these things all his life and he knows what he is doing allowing for such a rort! But then that fella knew that Pike was state of the art.

In the first instance you (Joseph) are throwing numbers at me, and we know from the shenanigans of John Key plucking wildly variant numbers out of the air and attributing them to Labour costs that numbers can be made to say anything you want. Being a layman I must choose which numbers it is most creditable to believe, and numbers given to me by right wing bloggers are less trustworthy than numbers given by BERL. Which is to say, I will trust the numbers given by BERL, and it is upon them that Labour endorse their position.

Second, you have omitted capital gains tax on the farming sector (given the amount of omissions I am glad I chose to trust BERL). And here I will digress to mention a further benefit of capital gains tax that has not been mentioned. The joke used to be that New Zealand had times more sheep than humans. Not as funny as some of nasska’s jokes, but New Zealand’s joke nonetheless. The joke no longer applies. Sheep and cattle farming has never paid as well as Dairying. With the removal of the subsidies by the Lange administration increasing quantities of traditional sheep and cattle farms have been converted into dairy and forestry (after flirting with goats and refusing hemp which would be the most sustainable and probably profitable given the diverse products (car panels, cloth, food, etc) it affords). Furthermore there has been an increase in corporates owning these dairy and forestry blocks. The corporates also speculate on land value which speculation currently bears no tax burden (if carried out after 2 years, I believe). The end product is the continued increase in the price of farm land pushing it well beyond the means of your hard working shearer, for example. As we have seen with the Crafar farms, offshore capitalists are becoming the only ones who can afford New Zealand land.
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November 25, 2011 9:10am
dime

Heard a bit of Barry Soper on ZB this morning. He’s still banging on about the “tea pot scandal” and the effect it has had.

Does this dude ever leave the beltway?

The fact that he can actually say “tea pot scandal” with a straight face is sad.
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November 25, 2011 9:12am
Monique Watson

Just before I pimp my own blog: Check this out; one for geeks: It may have already been put up.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/10/quantum-levitation/

PS Has anybody got a good image of the labelled stars of Orion from NZ? Beautifual night for stargazing last night; up at 3am to help put a hangi down at my son’s school.
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November 25, 2011 9:21am
nasska

Who would be a voter in Epsom? The nation’s well being & its future hang on getting a stable coalition partner for National & to accomplish this these poor citizens are asked to give their tick to a recycled smarmy ex mayor. The least that could be done would involve donating a free cookbook to each household detailing the cooking instructions & suitable flavourings for dishes based on dead rats.

The sacrifice these poor people are making on our behalf will not be forgotten.
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November 25, 2011 9:21am
Lucia Maria

Hi Ste3e,

Blogger.com allows you to set up your own blog site for free. That way you could write your comments as posts and link to them from here with a summary of what you’re saying. It really works much better, that way people who want to read and comment on what you’ve said will do so on your blog.
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November 25, 2011 9:25am
KiwiGreg

@ Lucia dont worry, he’ll be gone by Sunday, at least for another 3 years.
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November 25, 2011 9:31am
Murray

Hi Ste3e,

Blogger.com allows you to set up your own blog site for free. That way you could write your comments as posts and link to them from here with a summary of what you’re saying. It really works much better, that way people who want to read and comment on what you’ve said will do so on your blog.
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November 25, 2011 9:37am
pollywog

Congrats on the weight loss DPF.
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November 25, 2011 9:37am
Lucia Maria

KiwiGreg,

You’re probably right. But maybe he’s just a luddite and has no idea about blogs and links.

As the comment is so long and I don’t read it, it looks to me like it’s the same comment being posted every day. I don’t know how many people have the same impression I do, so a summary and a link would probably be a far more effective way of getting his message (what ever it is) out there.
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November 25, 2011 9:38am
tom hunter

Monique

That superconductor levitation video is the coolest thing I’ve seen for quite some time – and in saying that I include the ISS time-lapse video of earth that I put up a while ago. Magnetic fields from superconductors is not new – but the locking aspect is fantastic.

Thanks
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November 25, 2011 9:40am
Pete George

There’s a real risk of a surge to Winston peters if this thread at The Standard is any indicatyion of how the left is thinking.

http://thestandard.org.nz/who-were-voting-for/

Scary or what?
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November 25, 2011 9:41am
Murray

Yes Pete the strandard is a scary place.
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November 25, 2011 9:44am
Elaycee

“Hi Ste3e,

Blogger.com allows you to set up your own blog site for free. That way you could write your comments as posts and link to them from here with a summary of what you’re saying. It really works much better, that way people who want to read and comment on what you’ve said will do so on your blog.”

Just in case you missed the first two messages….
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November 25, 2011 9:51am
dime

who said irishbill is nuts:

“Russel Norman’s disgraceful selling out of his activists has put me off them for good” HAHAHA Are ya gutted Toad? this loser wont vote for you guys anymore.

Eddie: “I’m really impressed by Labour’s policy platform” haha i guess cause shes a union hack that helped write half of it?

Bill: “If the Nats get back, then I’m picking the public conscience will need to be out on the streets at some point in the next three years.” HAHA fuck these guys are delusional. Unless by public conscience he means the normal rent a crowd of 50 idiots.
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November 25, 2011 9:52am
RightNow

Oh this is fukcing hilarious – Penny Bright photographed vandalising a National billboard:
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2011/11/penny-bright-sign-vandal/#disqus_thread
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November 25, 2011 9:53am
dime

rightnow – LMAO

she should be prosecuted.

im not sure what the normal procedure is, but this election has been a disgrace, its fucking dirty. There should be an inquiry imho and people fined. Labour just dont give a fuck. they should get nailed.

if a National MP or ACT! mp has done wrong, ping them too.

im over it. we are better than this.

i suspect its only this bad because the left are nutters and sore losers. but an example should be made. do it in 6 months.

how many laws has horse mouth broken?
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November 25, 2011 10:00am
oldpark

Half the Green party joint leaders eg Turei who has been missing in action in the lead up to the polls,as she is the joke for all to not see,her claim to fame comes from the Ripleys believe it or not party,Magillicuddy serious party.How the hell did the media let that type of person even get to first base.Of course the little jerk from TV3 has given the Green Party eco terrorists oxygen to live for.To make it even worse an Aussie Commie named Norman dumped by his Australian Party because his views were too extreme is now telling the NZs how to run their lives.Go figure.
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November 25, 2011 10:02am
Pete George

Murray, not just The Standard, yeah I know about online polls but the herals is currently showing Labour on 19%, NZF on 6%.

I’d be surprised if Labour goes that low but expect some movement.

National will need Maori Party? Without enough United Future and Act that’s a real possibility.
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November 25, 2011 10:07am
ciaron

Bloody hell this is all getting far too depressing.
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November 25, 2011 10:16am
ciaron

Why Engineers Don’t Write Recipe Books
Chocolate Chip Cookies:
Ingredients:
1.) 532.35 cm3 gluten
2.) 4.9 cm3 NaHCO3
3.) 4.9 cm3 refined halite
4.) 236.6 cm3 partially hydrogenated tallow triglyceride
5.) 177.45 cm3 crystalline C12H22O11
6.) 177.45 cm3 unrefined C12H22O11
7.) 4.9 cm3 methyl ether of protocatechuic aldehyde
8.) Two calcium carbonate-encapsulated avian albumen-coated protein
9.) 473.2 cm3 theobroma cacao
10.) 236.6 cm3 de-encapsulated legume meats (sieve size #10)

To a 2-L jacketed round reactor vessel (reactor #1) with an overall heat transfer coefficient of about 100 Btu/F-ft2-hr, add ingredients one, two and three with constant agitation. In a second 2-L reactor vessel with a radial flow impeller operating at 100 rpm, add ingredients four, five, six, and seven until the mixture is homogenous. To reactor #2, add ingredient eight, followed by three equal volumes of the homogenous mixture in reactor #1. Additionally, add ingredient nine and ten slowly, with constant agitation. Care must be taken at this point in the reaction to control any temperature rise that may be the result of an exothermic reaction. Using a screw extrude attached to a #4 nodulizer, place the mixture piece-meal on a 316SS sheet (300 x 600 mm). Heat in a 460K oven for a period of time that is in agreement with Frank & Johnston’s first order rate expression (see JACOS, 21, 55), or until golden brown. Once the reaction is complete, place the sheet on a 25C heat-transfer table, allowing the product to come to equilibrium.
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November 25, 2011 10:26am
Elaycee

dime says: “Heard a bit of Barry Soper on ZB this morning. He’s still banging on about the “tea pot scandal” and the effect it has had. Does this dude ever leave the beltway?”

Soper is an out and out lefty who is so blatant with his ‘reports’ and his spin that they should be called party political broadcasts on behalf of Liabore. But recently he has been spanked big time – Larry Williams did him over a few days ago [covered in a comment a at the time] and lately even Mike Hosking has pulled him upon some of his outrageous comments and spin.

For someone who (apparently) holds the title of ‘Political Editor’ for NewstalkZB, Soper is, in fact, nothing more than a party hack for Labour but with his salary paid by the Radio Network.
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November 25, 2011 10:30am
Murray

I think the Herald started the day with hash cookies and crack icing today Pete.
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November 25, 2011 10:31am
damocles

Sue Bradford is in the news today, a breathless re-reporter of a plane hijacking (or should that be hi-johning?). Seems that a “friend” of Ms Bradford was on a plane that got diverted to pick up the PM yesterday. You’ll find the story here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6033390/Political-turbulence-as-PM-takes-diverted-flight

Of more importance, however, is the nearly total rubbishing that Bradford and Stuff are receiving in the comments thread. This example captures the general tone:

“My opinion of the media in this election campaign has been once again confirmed – find anything you can to create yet another negative headline about the most popular PM this country has had for many a year. To report such tripe is an insult to your readers.”
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November 25, 2011 10:35am
Elaycee

MORE bullshit from the NZ Herald.

The HEADLINE: Air NZ plane diverts for ‘PM pick up’ …. and then quotes the loudmouth Bradford bleating how terrible it is…

The TRUTH: A scheduled flight from New Plymouth to Auckland was cancelled by Air Nelson (Air NZ) and they diverted another flight via New Plymouth to pick up the 7 affected passengers.

Facts all confirmed by Air NZ this morning. What a crap beat up by a second rate, hack rag.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10768639
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November 25, 2011 10:36am
Elaycee

@damocles – SNAP! 🙂
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November 25, 2011 10:38am
shady

Haha – reading the post Pete George linked to at The Standard is hilarious. If the Labour supporters vote “tactically” in order for NZ1 to get over the 5% threshhold and therefore don’t end up with wasted votes that get distributed, they are going to cannibilise the Labour vote even further!!!

Go Labour voters – get Winston over 5% – how loooowww can you go?
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November 25, 2011 10:42am
oldpark

Sculduggery in OHARUIA.4 candidates 3 on list.Labour and Greens doing their usual cheating to try and keep the best candidate out.Peter Dunne.who has done more for the voters in that area than the whole 3 combined.Strange thing the 3lists are guarenteed to get inti parliament.Wonder will the common sense voter keep OHARIUA Peter Dunne,United party afloat.
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November 25, 2011 10:48am
Kimble

WTF?!?

If you click anywhere on the sidebar of nzherald.co.nz you get taken to the Greens website. There is no banner ad that I can see. Hi-jacked?

What’s the chances that the Greens are going to tout their website hits sometime in the next few days?
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November 25, 2011 11:05am
Bevan

WTF?!?

If you click anywhere on the sidebar of nzherald.co.nz you get taken to the Greens website. There is no banner ad that I can see. Hi-jacked?

What’s the chances that the Greens are going to tout their website hits sometime in the next few days?

Kimble, I just noticed the same thing – what the hell is going on there? No advert, no warning – just click on the side and your off to the greens website?

Wait a minute, wheres the authorization statement?
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November 25, 2011 11:10am
Monique Watson

Enjoyed reading your post Mr Carpenter. Ste3e i have done as some others have suggested to you and started my own blog recently. It’s not that hard these days. Another argument against CGT on a macro level.
http://the-yeas-or-nays-have-it.blogspot.com/2011/11/what-is-this-addiction-you-speak-of.html

I’m going to post again re CGT shortly.
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November 25, 2011 11:14am
Kimble

Wait a minute, wheres the authorization statement?

Is one needed?
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November 25, 2011 11:30am
oldpark

CGT Now that is a real ambush for the family home.Labour and the Greens have worked it out like this.A property bought fifty years ago for say $5000 dollars worth now say $400,000.Dad or Mum dies leaves it to family.Well and good.HERE IS THE BARB OR AMBUSH.THE FAMILY ON SELL THE HOUSE INHERITANCE TAX KICKS IN.Not on the $5000 dollars but on the sale price.the commie Green gangsters even want it inflation adjusted.Our stupid media or just a bunch of cocksuckers,have allowed this proposal to proceed without question.
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November 25, 2011 11:34am
Bevan

Is one needed?

Hmm, is it not marketing?
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November 25, 2011 11:39am
Murray

Marketing for votes is called electioneering isn;t it Bevan?
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November 25, 2011 11:42am
Bevan

I would think so Murray. Theres no mention that clicking on the side would take me to the Green party website – its downright deceitful.
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November 25, 2011 11:43am
thedavincimode

Monique

Thanks. That is super nifty.

Compare that stuff with the crap the “99%” seem to think is important and that taxpayers should fund them to learn. Pol Studies, Sociology, Macrame Methods … pffft.
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November 25, 2011 11:45am
Monique Watson

Other than property and like Kylie, I’m doing it for the kids:

http://the-yeas-or-nays-have-it.blogspot.com/2011/11/sick-society-and-weak-women.html

I’ll be voting for policies that provide a healthy, community oriented attitude towards parenting. Not a society that fosters parents like these; a society that punishes both of these losers to the fullest extent of the law.

Some days i feel like the worst mother ever but the reality is I’m not handing my kids over to be killed in a case of SOCK.
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November 25, 2011 11:50am
Murray

Its almost like they’re dishonest Bevan. How very odd.
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November 25, 2011 11:54am
markm

Stuff has an article about a Chinese naval ship in port.
It has a bristling array of radar on it’s gargantuan deck , and it’s stated purpose is to track satellites and missiles.
Where is the indigation from Minton and the loony left.
The Americans have been pilloried by these people for years .
America is the greatest and sometime, only defender of democracy and has been a friend and ally of New Zealand since probably WW1.
China have been our communist enemy for decades, so why can a warship with tracking equipment escape the wroth of the Blenheim balloon poppers.

Why also have the media and the left ignored Jim Andertons anti democratic actions.
John Key has been decried for subverting democracy by asking Epsom National voters to vote Act.
Jim Anderton ex Labour Minister and Progressive party leader, sends a letter out to the Progressive party members and others, advising them to vote for Megan Woods, the Labour candidate for wigram
Why hasn’t Goff screamed blue about this “Absolutely antidemocratic manipulation of MMP”
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November 25, 2011 12:07pm
Monique Watson

@ thedavincimode (2,667) at 11:45 am

It’s the theme of this election: never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

i wonder if we’ll get a break from Patrick Gower, bless his twee Englebert Humperdinck lookalike self.
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November 25, 2011 12:08pm
Kimble

Hmm, is it not marketing?

They may need one on the website, but do they need one on the link?
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November 25, 2011 12:17pm
Murray

Has the chinese warship made the statutory declaration that we demand from US warships markm?
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November 25, 2011 12:38pm
graham

Sue Bradford is just far too radical and fear-mongering. Never one to let some facts stop her from blowing something out of all proportion.

From the Herald: “The flight was over half an hour late as a result, Ms Bradford said.” Wow, HALF A FREAKING HOUR late!!! That’s just so … non-eventful.

Some facts: The plane was diverted to collect SEVEN passengers after the flight from New Plymouth was cancelled. John Key just happened to be one of them, and he did not ask for the flight to be diverted. The flight that was cancelled was the last of the evening and there was no opportunity to transfer affected passengers to Auckland.

So Air NZ did the decent thing, and diverted a plane for the benefit of SEVEN passengers that just happened to include John Key. Now I bet if those other passengers were poor Maori or beneficiaries and the plane HADN’T been diverted, Sue would be screaming. “The injustice of it … Air NZ thinks they can push these people around and leave them stranded because they’re not rich enough to complain … Air NZ thinks that because they’re beneficiaries they don’t have important plans or appointments to make” … and on and on.
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November 25, 2011 12:48pm
Nookin

Now, now Graham. Why would the “Key-eats-babies” brigade let facts get in the way of a bout of bigotry. This whole campaign has been coloured by a disturbing lack of integrity and nastiness – for the most part from the opposition
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November 25, 2011 1:07pm
KiwiGreg

Why the hell is Key flying commercially?
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November 25, 2011 1:09pm
KiwiGreg

Thinking about it – surely those “SEVEN” passengers are just Key and his entourage? Not that I care about the plane being diverted mind.
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November 25, 2011 1:10pm
thedavincimode

Murray

MFAT has been assured that the ship is powered by fermenting rice pursuant to China’s policy of sustainable gunboat diplomacy.
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November 25, 2011 1:11pm
dime

Just spotted my neighbour in her Pajamas. Her kid is 16 and shes been on the DPB most of the kids life. She did work for 3 months (with someone i know) but gave it up because she didnt like it.

So now, shes mooching around in her jammies at 12:30 on a friday arvo while Dime is at work.

Not only is Dime at work, but while at work Dime is reading that he “needs to start paying his fair share”.

No wonder this country is fucked!
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November 25, 2011 1:13pm
Longknives

Is Dime’s face pressed against her bathroom window??
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November 25, 2011 1:25pm
Longknives

Regardless- Longknives agrees 110% with the sentiment. These parasitic layabouts must be praying for a leftie coalition to ensure their ‘way of life’ is not disrupted….
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November 25, 2011 1:27pm
RightNow

perhaps dime has a webcam pointed at her window
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November 25, 2011 1:36pm
KiwiGreg

Kiwigreg is also joining dime and longknives in referring to Kiwigreg in the third person.
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November 25, 2011 1:37pm
XChequer

Once again…..

Has anyone heard any substantiation of Phil G’s accusation about political interference in operational police matters?

Phil?

You there Phil?………

Phil?
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November 25, 2011 1:37pm
Brian Smaller

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/6035104/Balcony-dive-BMX-star-Dan-Searls-dies

Now this is a Darwin Award candidate for sure. These adrenalin junkies are so fucking stupid.
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November 25, 2011 1:38pm
Brian Smaller

Dime could just work from home. And have a webcam pointed at her window.
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November 25, 2011 1:39pm
dime

Dime thinks she is a pig!

Dime was happily walking past when he spotted her. She was outside! At least she felt some shame at being busted in her jammies when Dime said “hello”
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November 25, 2011 1:42pm
RightNow

hey, now you’re capitalising your name? how fukcing pretentious!
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November 25, 2011 1:45pm
Longknives

Any port in a storm eh Dime??
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November 25, 2011 1:45pm
Manolo

Your neighbour is a fucking bludger. We have too many of parasites like her living at our expense.
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November 25, 2011 1:45pm
dime

Manolo – yep!

She doesnt like me either. I remember when my brother and I went to vote in 2005 she heard him say at the top of his voice “landlords should get their tenants vote”

Then last election she heard him say “beneficiaries should forfeit their vote” hehe

Wonder what pearl of wisdom he will come up with tomorrow.

Dime is about to sell anyway and buy a palace. So she wont be able to rile me up much longer.. although I would like to see what happens when the kid turns 18 and they turf her off the DPB. probably straight onto sickness or dole.. lazy fucker!
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November 25, 2011 1:51pm
RightNow

Geez Manolo, that’s already been established.
Now onto more important things. One a scale of one to ten, how drunk would dime have to be?
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November 25, 2011 1:52pm
dime

So drunk I wouldnt be able to perform!

Dont get me wrong, Dime has horsed many a scumbag DPB recipient in his time.. Dime just finds this one gross
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November 25, 2011 1:58pm
Chuck Bird

More hypocrisy from the left particularly the left MSM

You will not hear the Herald saying that the Maori Party are abusing MMP

Morgan Godfery: Vote strategically and bring in more Maori MPs
By Morgan Godfery
5:30 AM Friday Nov 25, 2011

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10768505
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November 25, 2011 2:02pm
RightNow

lol dime, you crazy horse
(edit – this may be a crappy version but: http://vbox7.com/play:ce67a41b&al=1&vid=1033692)
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November 25, 2011 2:08pm
Longknives

Rightnow- I’ll take your Crazy Horse and raise you an Amazing Horse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0sM0AbldMU
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November 25, 2011 2:14pm
RightNow

Longknives…. WTF!!!??? How did you even find that?

I’m going to have to go completely off topic now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7sb8r5e6eE
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November 25, 2011 2:25pm
immigant

Best horse video ever!
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November 25, 2011 3:12pm
bereal

dime @ 9.12
i note that Larry Williams (Newstalk ZB Auckland ) gives Tracey Watkins (Dominion Post)
3 times as much time on air for political comment as he does Barry Soper.
i guess he is compelled to have Soper on his show.

How any station can call Soper a “political editor” or even a political “reporter”
is a joke and an insult to their listeners or viewers.

Soper has given up any pretense to try and appear objective.

Any reasonable station that broadcasts Soper would allow the other side equal time.
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November 25, 2011 5:31pm
Manolo

I agree: Soper, the Labour hack, should be sacked on the spot by 2Zb.
It’s a disgrace to have this bugger on. What passes for “impartial” analysis is his own Labourite biased opinion.
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November 25, 2011 6:07pm
labours a joke

Sheer desperation from the filth at the strandard…

“Colonial Viper 12
25 November 2011 at 9:39 am
Air NZ diverts flight to pick up PM. PM orders crew to announce Vote National to passengers.
Not sure if his is a joke, it must be. Right?”

I just cant see JK ordering anyone to do anything. What felchers. Talk about dramatics.
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November 25, 2011 6:49pm
slijmbal

had the telly in the background while doing stuff on the laptop – wondered about the awful music – then realised it was the Labour presentation on TV1 – just caught the “voting with their feet” comment – inadvertant humour

wouldn’t surprise me if the other parties are as cheesy – must turn the sound down
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November 25, 2011 7:48pm
slijmbal

“wouldn’t surprise me if the other parties are as cheesy – must turn the sound down”

Sad – I didn’t turn the sound down – my morbid curiousity got the better of me – sort of like the mouse and the snake …

National better music – a bit dry I feel – minimal cheesy content but came across as a presentation – not sure if that works on the telly

laughed out loud when the Greens stuck a ginger up front dressed as an up market hippy .. The co-leaders are coming across as exceedingly smug with a high cheese content … decent sound track though – best so far ………
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November 25, 2011 8:08pm
nasska

One sperm has 37.5MB of DNA information in it.
That means a normal ejaculation represents a data transfer of 1403808.59 GB in about 3 seconds…
And you thought ultra fast broadband delivered the goods…..
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November 25, 2011 8:08pm
ste3e

I suppose we should be grateful to John Key. It seems his was “a fresh cup of really hot tea” that has enabled Air New Zealand to develop the improbability drive. The drive is obviously responsible for the fact that Air New Zealand managed to swing by New Plymouth to pick up just a couple of guys. Two to the power of ten thousand to one against and rising. That the guys happened to be John Key and mates… Two to the power of one hundred thousand to one against and rising.

By the way, can’t Key afford a suit that fits? What tired old add!
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November 25, 2011 8:12pm
slijmbal

The Maori party comes across as the least painful to date – it’s lower budget, less polished effort came across as much more believable.. Though having the younger lady talk english after the older bald guy’s maori was unintentionally humurous – it came across like translating for grandad “what he really meant was …….”

Act just started – arrrgghhhh! who chose the soundtrack – lost my dinner. Is it me or is it overdubbed? The sound track is not in sync with the video. They got a bit better after that.

Time for Winston 1st party … run for the hills!!!!!!
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November 25, 2011 8:19pm
adze

The Act one was appalling, especially immediately after the Maori Party. Steven Whittington just doesn’t come across well. He sounds like an earnest but virginal undergraduate philosophy student with his nose in Atlas Shrugged.
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November 25, 2011 8:24pm
Pauleastbay

Paul : Winston, you’re a goose and nobody wants you back in Parliament.

Winston: Paul, that’s just your opinion.

Paul: Correct Winston, opinions are like arseholes everyone’s got one, except your missus, she’s got two.

I hope when I come out of the bush on Sunday morning we have a stable government led by the National Party with a big majority and they will feel comfortable enough to see through the plans they have said they want to implement, especially those directed at welfare reform, – just have the nuts to do it.
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November 25, 2011 8:26pm
slijmbal

My god – Winston must be the best liar on the planet – he comes across as so believable when nothing he says matches ever what he does – he could make a living playing poker I reckon

Is it me or shouldn’t the legalise cannabis party candidates all have red eyes? They looked much too compos mentis

time for the nutjob parties ……
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November 25, 2011 8:28pm
Chuck Bird

I do not think I would want an endorsement from an unrepentant criminal.

Subject: Taito Phillip Field Endorses Mangere Candidate

PRESS RELEASE CONSERVATIVE PARTY

Previous MP for Mangere Taito Phillip Field today endorsed Fa’avae Gagamoe (Conservative Party candidate) as his pick for the best person to be the next MP for Mangere. Mr. Field says Fa’avae is in touch with the local community and understands their local issues. Fa’avae Gagamoe says “It’s really humbling and a real honour to have someone with such experience and so much respect and mana endorse me. This excites me, and we welcome his support.”
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November 25, 2011 9:19pm
Lazybum

I went to John Key’s final speech in Kumeu tonight.
He sounds confident about tomorrow. I did not get a recording though:)
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November 25, 2011 9:24pm
Lindsay Addie

Did notice one thing on the TV news tonite there was a difference in the numbers of the public hanging around Key compared to Goff.
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November 25, 2011 9:30pm

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