General Debate 1 November 2011

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Scott Chris

Prominent Climate Change Skeptic Funded By Skeptic Koch Brothers Changes His Mind:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/5880287/Sceptic-finds-he-now-agrees-global-warming-is-real

Crikey, so Richard Muller takes a long hard look, and finds what many of us already knew. It’s gettin’ hotter in here baby.
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November 1, 2011 8:16am
philu

(a reaganite recants…)

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/bruce-bartlett-ex-reagan-economist-idea-that-deregulation-leads-to-jobs-just-made-up/

“…Key proposals from the Republican presidential candidates might make for good campaign fodder.

But independent analyses raise serious questions about those plans and their ability to cure the nation’s ills in two vital areas, the economy and housing.

Consider proposed cuts in taxes and regulation, which nearly every GOP candidate is pushing in the name of creating jobs.

The initiatives seem to ignore surveys in which employers cite far bigger impediments to increased hiring, chiefly slack consumer demand.

“Republicans favor tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, but these had no stimulative effect during the George W. Bush administration, and there is no reason to believe that more of them will have any today,” writes Bruce Bartlett.

He’s an economist who worked for Republican congressmen and in the administrations of Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

As for the idea that cutting regulations will lead to significant job growth, Bartlett said in an interview, “It’s just nonsense. It’s just made up.”

Government and industry studies support his view…”

(cont…)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 8:16am
Manolo

Richard Muller takes a long hard look, and finds what many of us already knew.

I nominate Scott for a Nobel Prize. Sure winner.
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November 1, 2011 8:18am
flipper

Amazing isn’t it…..the “amateur” TV prognosticators this AM give points to Goff over Key. Ask Joe Blow and Key won hands down. This, Joe Blow’s view that is, was what the somewhat smart Claire Robinsoin said on TV One lst evening.

The fact is that Labour has not changed its failed tactics of 2008 – attack Key personally.
Long may it continue. It will be as successful as the “H Fee” effort by Williams and Clark et al in 2008.

As for the “mistake” email over Social Welfare policy ….. Really? These things are set up in group emails… NOT a group plus a single ringer. Conclusion? Sky did a nice job putting out a “free-be” for NationaL. Nice move (aka “mistake”), Nats!
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November 1, 2011 8:18am
minette

I hope I am not the only Kiwi outraged over TVNZ’s not too subtle attempt to skew the nation’s reaction to the Leader’s debate last night. By not having the usual “Kids ,ask your parents first” phone-in option and limiting responses to those who text or tweet TVNZ effectively disenfranchised a large chunk of the population. The cynic in me thinks they were only trying to get feedback from the young of the nation.
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November 1, 2011 8:23am
KH

…… to Scott Chris at 8.16
Your linked story accepts climate change is happening. That’s easy enough to accept.
But the article also is not so sure about the cause. I am not convinced about that either.
The whole thing about emissions has given way to an industry and taxation regime that has the air of the Y2K fiasco about it.
And an industry full of self interest in perpetuating that flimsy idea.
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November 1, 2011 8:26am
philu

scott chris..you should really pay more attention to whoar..eh..?

i had that ‘news’ back on the 22nd..eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/?s=muller

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 8:27am
Lance

@philu

Nobody cares what you think
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November 1, 2011 8:31am
Scott Chris

Some Greek jokes doing the rounds:

Why did Greece fail to get the latest instalment of EU/IMF aid?
Because no one in Greece works long enough to complete the application form.

A Greek, an Irishman and a Portuguese go into a bar and order a drink. Who picks up the bill?
The German.

For €400 you can adopt a Greek. He’ll stay at your place, sleep late, drink coffee, have lunch and then take a nap, so you can go to work.'”

What’s the difference between Iceland and Ireland?
One letter and about six months.
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November 1, 2011 8:34am
immigant

minette – I find it laughable that you take TV polls seriosuly. Do you still beleive in fairies and that all people are good?
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November 1, 2011 8:34am
barry

Key is sleep walking to defeat…………

The latest horizon poll (the most accurate for the last election) gives the left v right a balance as 61 seats each.

Its going to be no cakewalk for key
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November 1, 2011 8:36am
Mick Mac

hehe the moderates are about.

http://blog.dailyalert.org/2011/10/26/tunisias-ghannouchi-on-the-end-of-israel/
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November 1, 2011 8:37am
Scott Chris

philu says:- “i had that ‘news’ back on the 22nd..eh..?”

Good for you Phil. I must have missed it amongst the torrent of other information you provide.

Might pay to edit a bit, and look at how you present your information. Sorry to be patronizing.
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November 1, 2011 8:38am
sbk

for those who think the debate is over/settled…

“a report to be published today by the Global Warming Policy Foundation includes a graph of world average temperatures over the past ten years, drawn from the “”‘BEST project’s data””” and revealed on its website.
This graph shows that the trend of the last decade is absolutely flat, with no increase at all – though the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have carried on rising relentlessly.
‘This is nowhere near what the climate models were predicting,’ Prof Curry said. ‘Whatever it is that’s going on here, it doesn’t look like it’s being dominated by CO2.’
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November 1, 2011 8:41am
Elaycee

@barry – you’re dreaming. From the latest Roy Morgan (released yesterday):

“The latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows support for Prime Minister John Key’s National-led Government has fallen to 57.5% (down 2%). Support for Key’s National Party is 53.5% (down 2%), ACT NZ 1% (down 0.5%), the Maori Party 2% (unchanged), and United Future 1% (up 0.5%). Support for Opposition Parties is at 42.5% (up 2%) – Labour Party 29.5% (up 1.5%), Greens 9.5% (unchanged), New Zealand First 2.5% (up 0.5%), Mana Party 0.5% (unchanged) and Others 0.5% (unchanged). If a National Election were held today the National Party would easily be returned to Government”.

So, National on 57.5% and Labour on 29.5%…..

http://www.roymorgan.com/
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November 1, 2011 8:42am
Mick Mac

It will get worse.

http://news.yahoo.com/sharia-law-declaration-raises-concerns-libya-174347939.html
http://www.jpost.com/Features/InThespotlight/Article.aspx?id=242922
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November 1, 2011 8:43am
Mick Mac

SBK
can you give the source so I can email it to all the warmers I know. 🙂
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November 1, 2011 8:43am
hj

“As the world marks the seven billionth human birth today, the Pacific region is marking its ten millionth.

Ms Subramaniam says sixty percent of people in the region are under the age of 25 and this high proportion of young people should be regarded as an opportunity.

“In the Pacific you want to make sure that the investments are made in these young people right now whether it comes to health or education or employment because at some point the Pacific does have an opportunity to have a large demographic dividend when these young people get into a productive age group.”

http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=64090

Yeah right!
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November 1, 2011 8:46am
flipper

Folks, there is ample evidence that the “climate” is changing.
There have been many climate changes in previous centuries/decades/ years. There will be many in the future.
But ….
If past changes pre-date the currently attributed causes, what caused previous changes?
Moreover there is NO evidence (as distinct from unsupported assertions) that an increase in world temps will be dangerous.
Don’t trot out the Carbon issue. That is crap since CO2 encourages vegetation and is fundamental to life.
And if you start talking about Carbon, please differentiate between CO2 and “soot” in the air and, PLEASE, dont show me steam rising from cooling towers as “evidence of emissions”.

Really, the current argument is NOT about climate. It is, in fact, about world government and the transfer of wealth.

But let’s forget this crap and concentrate on matters that are important to NZ
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November 1, 2011 8:48am
Mick Mac

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/26/world/asia/china-takes-loss-to-get-ahead-in-desalination-industry.html

another industry rushing to give all their secrets to their “state partners” in China only to have their businesses screwed down the line.

ost of the foreign companies have partnered with state-owned corporations, for help in securing business and for political protection in a country where the rule of law and protection of intellectual property are in a state of flux. And although some foreign investors in technology-laden projects like wind energy and high-speed rail later claimed their Chinese partners appropriated their technologies, the heads of ERI and Aqualyng say they can become researchers and manufacturers in China without losing control of their products.

yeah right.
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November 1, 2011 8:49am
Falafulu Fisi

Phil U said…
But independent analyses raise serious questions about those plans and their ability to cure the nation’s ills in two vital areas, the economy and housing

Since you have nothing all day to do, I thought that the following youtube video lecture will educate you about economics. I find your comment here as dumb. Same old, same old of blaming capitalism. Just look thru all your comments here at Kiwiblog. You blamed capitalism for all the ills in the world. Listen to the following and hopefully you come to understand your delusion. Government interference is the main cause of all economic problems.

A Pro-Free-Market Program for Economic Recovery

Since you have heaps of free time to fuck around not learning anything, I suggest that you should check out the following book perhaps borrow it from the library or buy a copy, because it will open up your eyes.

Classical Econophysics

It covers the mechanisms of how free markets work efficiently (self-organized dynamics punctuated by spontaneous order) when Govt doesn’t interfere.

C’mon, try and educate yourself see facts and dont close your eyes to them.
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November 1, 2011 9:02am
tom hunter

Prominent Climate Change Skeptic …..

Oh dear. Relying on the MSM again Scott. Have you learned nothing from the last few years of alternative vs. MS media?

Muller was never a skeptic about AGW: he actually resigned from the Sierra Club back in the 1980’s over their opposition to nuclear power, because he felt that was vital in combating…. global warming.

What he was pissed off about more recently was the unscientific, corrupt way the temp data had been processed and the conclusions drawn. His key comment being that there were now a bunch of people whose papers he would not read anymore (e.g. Michael Mann & Co.). And he announced that he was leading a group that would subject the data to a new and open analysis.

So now his group have produced their results and they show – that the globe has warmed in the last 200 years – again.

Funny thing is that I can’t remember any “denialist:” claiming the opposite. In fact it was the skeptics who talked about how the globe has warmed in the last 200-1000 years and how they could not see any statistically significant change in the rate of warming over recent decades. Correlation vs. causation and all that.

And of course Muller’s own data show what skeptics have been claiming for years now; that there has been no warming in the last decade, which is not what’s supposed to happen according to the CO2-driven climate models. I see a couple of scientists have recently published a paper that tries to explain this – which is rather funny when so many warmists assured me that there was nothing to explain.

Having said all that – and even in these financially stringent times – if anybody does want to join me in calling for all the Solyndra subsidies to be switched to supporting a massive, global expansion of clean, green, nuclear power then call me a warmist! Here’s the one I want to put in – Hyperion’s Solid State Cartridge Reactor. Bury it underground in a concrete capsule, run it for five years, and then they come and switch it out. Bye bye Genesis Power for not just the farm but the whole district.

Better yet – Solar Power Satellites.
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November 1, 2011 9:04am
JC

MicMac,

Here is the post showing that the lead author has a 30 year history of warmist beliefs. Note that he resigned from the extremist environmental group the Sierra Club because it wasn’t moving fast enough to support his warmist views 30 years ago.

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/archives/44855

Here are the graphs showing how the BEST team sort to “hide the decline” and showing the the second co-author of the BEST project has come out and said this attempted deception is as bad as Climategate

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2055191/Scientists-said-climate-change-sceptics-proved-wrong-accused-hiding-truth-colleague.html

For more information on further attempts to deceive..

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/29/uh-oh-it-was-the-best-of-times-it-was-the-worst-of-times/

JC
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November 1, 2011 9:11am
Pete George

As per Elaycee, a small but significant move in the latest Roy Morgan, United Future 1% (up 0.5%).

Poll taken before the openers on TV and then Sunday debates. A possible sign people are starting to notice – and possibly starting to think through the likely balance.
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November 1, 2011 9:19am
barry

Elaycee @ 8.42

You are still thinking in FPP terms. Labour has about as much chance as National do to rule by themselves – they all have to form coalitions.
And although everyone thinks that National and ACT will be over 50%, the fact is that Labour, Greens, Mana, etc add up to about 50% also.

I certainly dont want Labour to be in charge – but to everyone who thinks National will be in charge – take your hands off whatever theyre clamped onto at the moment and wake up…..
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November 1, 2011 9:24am
Lee01

Key is sleep walking to defeat…………

The latest horizon poll (the most accurate for the last election) gives the left v right a balance as 61 seats each.

The Horizon poll is a joke. And let me guess, you get the left/right balance by adding in NZF, the party that has no chance of getting back in, right?
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November 1, 2011 9:24am
philu

scott said:…”..I must have missed it amongst the torrent of other information you provide.

Might pay to edit a bit, and look at how you present your information…”

funds..dear boy…funds..

..funding i lack..

i did go and talk to the icehouse..

..and after an enthusiastic-exchange of positive emails…in response to my explanations/examples as to what i do..with ‘good-cop’..they must have had a closer look at the politics..

..and invited me into a meeting where they told me to fuck off..(using ‘bad cop’..said bad-cop who in his questions/answers showed he had paid only the most superficial-attention to what he was ruling on..

..he had ‘looked at the site last week’…)i asked..’did you not look over a few days’..?

his response:..a sneering-laughed..’who has the time?’

..it being read in a large number of countries was ‘a problem’..

..his response to the information of the site being translated into nearly a hundred languages..really showed the depth and width of his ignorances…i feel..

..it was a (disbelieving/accusatory/spat-out:..’how can you prove that?”..

(good-cop had to lean over and whisper in his ear that actually many tracking programs do/show this..

..i’m writing it up..with the working title..’getting iced at the icehouse’…

..and does anyone know of any incubators that aren’t just rand-ite cult-centres..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 9:32am
Scott Chris

tom hunter says:- “Muller was never a skeptic about AGW”

He *still* doesn’t attribute the observed rise in temperature to Anthropogenic causes, but he has confirmed that the way in which the data is collected gives a *true* reading, which has been hotly disputed by the main body of skeptics

I merely observed that he has changed his position from one who was skeptical as to the veracity of the temperature recordings and the manner in which the data was collected, to a position where he now accepts the readings as fact.

One could see him as:

1) A scientist reserving his judgement as all scientists should do or,

2) A scientist who should have trusted his fellow scientists to adhere to strict scientific method.

I see him as the latter. A stubborn old fuck, but a smart one who had the integrity not to fudge his petard.
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November 1, 2011 9:35am
Lee01

From Lawrence Auster – View From The Right.

Perhaps the best way to understand Occupy Wall Street is simply that it is a typical leftist manifestation. These are leftists doing—with variations—what leftists always do. And the support that the Democratic establishment are giving the Occupy movement is also what leftists always do. And the media’s hyping of the Occupy movement, trying to make us believe that this is the emergent direction of America and that it represents the cutting edge of a revolutionary transformation of society, is also what leftists always do. And the efforts by some commentators to convince us that this is not the familiar left but a new political phenomenon joining left and right in a way that’s never happened before, is also what leftists always do. And the fragmentation among the protesters, and between the protesters and the leftist establishment, leading to disarray and disillusionment and ultimately the demise of this cause until the next leftist cause comes along giving the left yet another vehicle with which to damage society, is also what leftists always do. There is nothing new here.

http://amnation.com/vfr/
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November 1, 2011 9:39am
Falafulu Fisi

Mainstream economic theories had for a very long time being dismissive about methods of chartist traders/investors because they think it is nonsense. They think that the chartist theory (or trend-followers) doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Here is one that supports chartists.

Memory effects in stock price dynamics: evidences of technical trading

Mainstream economists and financial analysts had treated chartists as some sort of market clairvoyants and frequently mock their methods, but not anymore these days. Mainstream economists are starting to open up to chartists’ investment methods as they can supplement to traditional methods.
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November 1, 2011 9:49am
Lee01

What Liberalism has done.

“A parade was once for honoring or commemorating heroes. Now parades are for freaks, misfits, sluts and monsters. It must be overwhelming for children.”
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November 1, 2011 9:51am
Lance

@Lee01

You might be correct that this is the same rent a mob but what is different is many (ordinary) people feel a deep burning hatred for the shit that has gone on at the highest levels of finance and ‘Wall Street’ where pure greed has caused many pain where they did not actively or willing take part in or benefit from the gross obscenities perpetrated with relative immunity.
Then the icing on the cake is these same arseholes are giving themselves huge bonuses all over again after receiving tax payer bail outs.

Pisses me off
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November 1, 2011 9:52am
Lee01

Lance,

The problem is that the anger is misdirected. Nothing “high finance” has done was possible without the State. Yet the Left does not want to reign in the State, it wants to regulate the market even more, despite the fact that government regulations were the cause of the meltdown.

Why the heck is this happening to us? What happened to mortgages, to banks, to large retailers, to retirement savings, to stock prices, to the availability of credit? How could so many errors have coincided?

To the media pundits and government officials, this is a market failing that requires the government to take trillions of dollars from you and run the money presses full time. Otherwise we are doomed.

But there is another way to look at the great market collapse of 2008: the whole thing, including the bubble that preceded it, is the fault of the government and the Fed. All attempts to “fix” the problem are like forcing the patient to swallow more of the poison from which he currently suffers.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods-meltdown.html
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November 1, 2011 10:01am
philu

leo..!..i never realised you were a member of that nascent pressure group..the ‘oompah!’s’..

..free the parades – from ‘freaks, misfits, sluts and monsters’..!

..eh..?

stirring words..!

that’s where it all started going wrong..i reckon..

..the slow but steady demise of the parade..eh..?

..that proud/masculine/hetero ‘oompah!’..

..degenerating into a depraved/sexually-confused/ambivalent..’hello sailor!’..eh..?

..oh the humanity..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 10:05am
tom hunter

… one who was skeptical as to the veracity of the temperature recordings and the manner in which the data was collected,

Actually, if you watch this video you’ll see that what Muller was pissed off about was not the data collection but what was done with it, particularly the smooth melding of proxy temperature into recorded temperature data – the infamous hide the decline. Funny thing is that when I first pointed this out to people on blogs almost a decade ago – that had I pulled such crap in my experimental physics classes, my professors would have had my ass – many of the warmists sniffily proclaimed that there were big differences between undergraduate stuff and this. Actually – no.

This caused him to question whether anything else about the process had been corrupted in such an unscientific way. Apparently he’s recovered some confidence in the raw data – though his recent statement about the last ten years sounded a little confused:

However, he admitted it was true that the BEST data suggested that world temperatures have not risen for about 13 years. But in his view, this might not be ‘statistically significant’, although, he added, it was equally possible that it was – a statement which left other scientists mystified.

I look forward to these scientific mysteries of temperature data records being unraveled over the next few years just as I’ve watched the whole kerfuffle since the late 1980’s. Although it might pay to get BEST’s stuff at least peer reviewed before it’s published: if deniers had tried this publish-and-scream stunt I can imagine what the warmers would say. Perhaps when it’s settled one day they might even get on to the really important subject of establishing the interactions of the various climate variables involved and the resulting causation, because right now their CO2-fixated, H2O multiplier models don’t look too hot (maybe somebody stuck the dreaded Keynesian multiplier in there?)

In the meantime the world will get on with improving batteries, producing really cool electric/hybrid cars (and using modern manufacturing techniques to reduce the cost), building fission plants, hammering away at fusion reactors – and exploiting vast new reserves of oil in places like Brazil and gas/oil in the US. I see the US is already down to 50% dependency on foreign oil, from 75% a decade ago. Drill, baby, drill!
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November 1, 2011 10:22am
Longknives

Wahay Cup Day! The one day of the year where we knock off an hour early and have a beer and a punt…..

(Don’t worry Philu..before you start spouting off about us lazy, evil ‘right wingers’ we do have to make it up later in the week..)
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November 1, 2011 11:11am
Longknives

I wonder if Global Warming/Climate Change will affect the track at Flemington??
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November 1, 2011 11:13am
jaba

1/2 day today to punt some of my tax cuts (as in being able to spend/waste my own money) on the Melbourne Cup.
now, I picked Woodcock to be the 1st try scorer in the Cup Final so I have form .. it was based on the chicken in the TV ad.
here is my hot tip .. Drunkin Sailor based on Key’s description on how he (Goff) wants to spend my money, you heard it here 1st
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November 1, 2011 11:19am
meh

If you’re picking a trifecta you’d be mad not to include americain in the mix. Don’t discount illo either.
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November 1, 2011 11:28am
jaba

Ted has resigned .. not that musch of a surprise BUT thought he may consider doing a Sir Alex and start a special legacy.
Hope he also thanks Beaver Donald
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November 1, 2011 12:05pm
jaba

I wonder if Goff .. or should I say Cunliffe considered taxes office sweeps in the MCup?
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November 1, 2011 12:15pm
philu

“..(Don’t worry Philu..before you start spouting off about us lazy, evil ‘right wingers’ ..”

longknives..can i tell you about the one and only time i ever bet on a horse..?

i was living in byron bay in australia..and i saw this nuggety little kiwi farmer joker being interviewed on tv by this supercillious/smarmy young australian sports-reporter..

..the reporter was asking him why he was even bothering bringing his horse from a farm in new zealand to race against australias’s finest..

..the little/nuggety kiwi farmer joker narrowed his eyes…and told the reporter that he wouldn’t have bothered coming..if he didn’t think he would win..

..i looked at him..and liked the cut of his jib…

..so i went out and put a serious wedge of money on this horse…to win..and with the field for the double..

..on the day..i went to a ‘do’ in the local nightclub…(where i got the same horse in the sweepstake there..)

..and there..humming away nicely on a mix of the finest cocaine/french champagne/weed/hashhish…

…i watched kiwi do its’ thing….

..as the now much more serious wedge was so easily earned…and in such a serendipitous manner…

..it was partied away over the next 36 hrs….

..and..as i thought i would be really pushing it to better that one..

..i thought i wd quit while ahead…

..and be one of the few mug-punters who interact with the racing-industry..

..and walk away a winner…

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 12:22pm
RightNow

Saudi Arabia’s national sport?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXSYg7ktvpE
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November 1, 2011 12:34pm
James Stephenson

@jaba – there seem to be whisperings back home that Ted might be hit up to replace Rob Andrew as Director of whatevertheycallit at the RFU.
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November 1, 2011 12:40pm
flipper

philu…
I AGREE WITH YOUR JUDGEMENT.
BUT are you sure you had stayed away from Byron’s other, less mentionable, attractions?
Nice story, Philu! Enjoy today.
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November 1, 2011 12:43pm
Longknives

Havn’t had a punt since 1983 Philu?

Nice story (although it is an urban legend fuelled by a TV commercial a few years ago) about the ‘arrogant’ Aussies writing him off because he was a ‘farm hack’- But anyone can tell you that Kiwi was in fact one of the pre race favourites on the basis of his dominant Wellington Cup win the season before….He was one hell of a stayer.

Nonetheless- Nice to see Jimmy Cassidy still riding in the big one all these years later…
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November 1, 2011 12:45pm
philu

no i haven’t..the whole concept/idea bores me rigid…

..and it is not ‘made up’..based on a commercial..

..there were many people there/at that party… who are still on the planet…

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 12:57pm
meh

Longknives, it didn’t go down exactly as Phil quoted but it was fairly close to that. Unfortunately Snowy passed away a few years back so the exact quote is likely consigned to history.
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November 1, 2011 12:58pm
Courage Wolf

Republican Herman Cain has denounced sexual harassment accusations from the 1990s as a “witch hunt” and broke into a gospel song to deflect what has become the toughest challenge of his US presidential campaign.

Hear that Key and Goff? Everytime you want to denounce an accusation now, just break out into gospel song!
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November 1, 2011 1:04pm
Manolo

More of the Messiah’s crony capitalism: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/31/another-energy-company-goes-bankrupt-3-million-borrowed-from-taxpayers/
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November 1, 2011 1:08pm
Longknives

I’m not going to spend Cup afternoon arguing racing with people who wouldn’t know a horse’s ear from it’s arsehole- All I’m saying is that Kiwi was a mighty stayer and was deservedly one of the favourites for the ’83 Cup. I’m not doubting that Philu had some money on him but the story he tells is an urban legend that has been distorted through time and has made Kiwi out to be some form of farm hack ‘Disney’ story. This simply isn’t true- he was a high class racehorse and his memory deserves better.
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November 1, 2011 1:10pm
philu

longknives..the first time i heard the name ‘kiwi’..was when i saw that interview..

..i only saw that interview because i was somewhere waiting..where a television was playing in the background..

..it was in one of the decades i watched no television..

..i knew absolutely nothing of this horse..even less its’ ‘form’…

..(hence..’serendipitous’..)

..as i said..many people witnessed that sequence of events…

..don’t call me a liar/fantasist…

..are you just jealous that nothing comes within a fucken bulls roar of being that exciting/interesting..

..in the sad excuse of yr life..eh..?

..give us yr best-ever there…longknives…!

..eh..?

..or have you just fretted yr life away…?

..and have nothing to say/tell..?

..how fucken sad…eh..?

..i’m picking the most exciting/interesting thing about you..

..is yr online alias..

..eh..?

..have a nice day..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 1:22pm
meh

Longknives, given I spent many years on that farm with my grandfather and the fact my family is currently showing the cup over in Melbourne as we speak I’d say I’ve a bit more knowledge than you are trying to (dis)credit me with.

Yes it’s been glorified by the TAB ads but he was never a favourite despite the Wellington cup win.
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November 1, 2011 1:25pm
Lee01

REASON NUMBER ONE TO NOT VOTE UNITED FUTURE.

Its not well known, but lone of United Future’s candidates is a Muslim and head of an Islamic “advocacy” group (and we know that THAT means).

But in Switzerland, the result of Islamic immigration and political advocacy is clear, the destruction of Western values and traditions which “offend” Muslims.

An immigrant group based in Bern has called for the emblematic white cross to be removed from the Swiss national flag because as a Christian symbol it “no longer corresponds to today’s multicultural Switzerland.” Ivica Petrusic, the vice president of Second@s Plus, a lobbying group that represents mostly Muslim second-generation foreigners in Switzerland (who colloquially are known as secondos) says the group will launch a nationwide campaign in October to ask Swiss citizens to consider adopting a flag that is less offensive to Muslim immigrants.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4855

Defend New Zealand. Keep United Future out of our Parliament!
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November 1, 2011 1:28pm
Longknives

Philu- A little upset that someone who is actually involved in the racing industry has exposed you as full of shit ??(Yet again!)

Like most druggies- everything that comes out of your mouth must be taken with a grain of salt, hence me calling you out on your blatant regurgitation of an old TV commercial as something you had ‘lived’…

And my life is bloody great thanks. I have a good job, a beautiful family and am planning another nice holiday in Europe as we speak. Tell me- Are you allowed to leave the country with your convictions Philu???
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November 1, 2011 1:31pm
Courage Wolf

Lee01 (1,586) Says:
November 1st, 2011 at 1:28 pm

REASON NUMBER ONE TO NOT VOTE UNITED FUTURE.

Its not well known, but lone of United Future’s candidates is a Muslim and head of an Islamic “advocacy” group (and we know that THAT means).

REASON NUMBER ONE TO NOT VOTE CONSERVATIVE PARTY.

It’s well known, but one of the Conservative Party’s candidates is a Christian (and we all know what THAT means).
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November 1, 2011 1:33pm
Longknives

My apologies Meh- I was aiming that barb more at Philu. (As I simply don’t believe a word he says about anything..)

I still remember Kiwi was one of the fave’s though? (Although to be honest I was only 9..)
Wikipedia says 10-1??
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November 1, 2011 1:38pm
philu

longknives..the latest benchmark for ‘pearls before swine’…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 1:38pm
meh

Longknives, I figured it was but I had to cover myself in case it wasn’t 🙂

Wiki also says “Kiwi was considered very much an outsider and started with odds of 10/1” – to be fair I was only 3 at the time so most of my knowledge is from later discussions with Snowy and other family members.

Also I agree it’s good to Jim back in the saddle, I’ve got a few bob on him.
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November 1, 2011 1:42pm
Manolo

Defend New Zealand. Keep United Future out of our Parliament!

I couldn’t agree more. Boot the whorish Dunne out.
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November 1, 2011 1:52pm
Brian Smaller

On a different note – our first steer was home-killed today. I am happy processing sheep for the freezer but the sheer size of half tonne of beast freaked me out a bit – a lot to muck up – so paid a pro to do it. All up, including cost of buying the steer as a calf, less than $5.00/kg for meat.
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November 1, 2011 1:58pm
Fletch

New video by James O’Keefe exposing ‘elite’ journalists, filmed secretly talking about how they and the New York Times will go about promoting and legitimizing Obama. Also their strategy on helping OWS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qBFOmUXR080
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November 1, 2011 2:18pm
Fletch

There is a site here which lets you answer questions about Parliament/Government etc, and shows what method of voting you lean towards (online questionnaire is the top half, videos in the bottom half) –

http://www.youtube.com/user/ReferendumNZ?v=EQ1gpLr9ftI&feature=pyv&ad=16291784368&kw=%20voting#p/f/1/7LviP7pNy-k

Also has videos about the different voting systems, although I’m pretty much still in the dark as to how they are supposed to work.
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November 1, 2011 2:47pm
philu

“..I have a good job, a beautiful family and am planning another nice holiday in Europe as we speak..”

..how smug…yet how stepford…

..and ‘another nice holiday’…eh..?..awww..!

..and no ‘best-ever’ to regale us with..?

..nothing/zero/nada..?

..that’s it..?

lonknives..this is/has been..yr life…

..look back upon it…and weep…at the insignificance/futility..

..eh…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 3:00pm
wreck1080

“Kiwis poor but happy – survey”

Many New Zealanders are struggling to make ends meet, with nearly half saying they didn’t have enough, or had just enough, money for food, clothing and housing, a new survey shows.

I have questions about this survey. Are the people who say they don’t have enough also paying off a mortagage ? In those cases, they may be able to reduce mortgage repayments or downsize their house. I think a lot of pain is caused by house prices.
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November 1, 2011 3:07pm
Longknives

As opposed to your magnificent existence Philu? …Sitting at home smoking/shooting drugs, sucking up various WINZ benefits like a hoover and bragging/reminiscing to anyone who will listen about your one moment of glory (some kind of Armed Robbery I recall??)
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November 1, 2011 3:14pm
philu

just a small matter of rearranging the portfolio..eh wreck..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 3:16pm
RightNow

I suppose for some, rearranging the portfolio means picking roaches out of the ash tray to tide you over to benefit day eh?
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November 1, 2011 3:26pm
philu

how old are you..?..longknives..?

mid to late thirties..?..early forties..?

..you’ll be fifty soon..

..and too old/scared to do much…

..that has been it..eh..?

..and ya hafta ask…is it better to crawl in the gutters…and kiss the sky…?

..or to just steadily/carefully walk down that centre-line..?..one foot after the other..and then to just slip quietly into that long night..?

..debatable..i s’pose…

..btw..i haven’t ‘shot drugs’ in decades..eh..?

..i am a pot-smoking/non-alcohol-using/vegan…( a picture of vibrant health…tho’ i do have snaps of me looking kinda worse..)

..’shooting’ is long gone…(the thought of it actually makes me shudder..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 3:27pm
philu

that’s quite clever/quick/funny there..rightnow..well done..!..that is a rare quality around these parts..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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November 1, 2011 3:29pm
Other_Andy

The 99%

Official list of Occupy Wall Street’s supporters, sponsors and sympathizers in the USA

Communist Party USA
American Nazi Party
Ayatollah Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran
Barack Obama
The government of North Korea
Louis Farrakhan, Nation of Islam
Revolutionary Communist Party
David Duke
Joe Biden
Hugo Chavez
Revolutionary Guards of Iran
Black Panthers (original)
Socialist Party USA
US Border Guard
Industrial Workers of the World
CAIR
Nancy Pelosi
Communist Party of China
Hezbollah
9/11Truth.org
International Bolshevik Tendency
Anonymous
White Revolution
International Socialist Organization
PressTV (Iranian government outlet)
Marxist Student Union
Freedom Road Socialist Organization
ANSWER
Party for Socialism and Liberation

http://pjmedia.com/zombie/2011/10/31/the-99-official-list-of-ows/
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November 1, 2011 4:15pm
joe90

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20125515-503544/poll-43-percent-agree-with-views-of-occupy-wall-street/
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November 1, 2011 4:31pm
Fletch

My folks get some satellite stations at home, and were watching a Dutch station. They had a whole segment about the Queen’s visit to Australia and showed some of an address she gave. She said it had been a particularly difficult year and mentioned the devastating earthquake in New Zealand, but how marvellously all the people had pulled together.

Why didn’t we get any of these reports here?

Only thing the NZ media seem to report on is what she is wearing. I think they do it on purpose.
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November 1, 2011 4:45pm
Fletch

Found the video –

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIYGDwtz7_U
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November 1, 2011 4:57pm
Elaycee

Excellent – the squatters in Dunedin have been given the order to piss of by 8pm tonight or they’ll be visited by the boys in blue.

Not before time.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763185
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November 1, 2011 6:45pm
publicwatchdog

Got my nomination in today as an Independent candidate in the Epsom electorate.

Last night I attended the Epsom ‘debate’ (as a member of the public), at the ‘Village Centre’, Mt Eden Rd / Ngauruhoe St. It was just the boyz – John Banks (National “B” Team /ACT) Paul Goldsmith (National “A” Team), David Parker (Labour) and David Hay (Greens).

I asked the following question of John Banks:

I noted that ACT’s ‘3 strikes and out’ policy doesn’t apply to ‘white collar crime’.

I noted that since 2006 there have been 64 finance industry collapses in NZ – perceived to be the least corrupt country in the world.

I asked that if ACT believe in ‘one law for all’ – how come John Banks and Don Brash have not been charged for misstatements in the Huljich Wealth Management Registered Prospectus, along with fellow Director Peter Huljich’?

The Chair of this public meeting, former Judge Peter Salmond – ruled my question ‘out of order’ because he didn’t think it was relevant to the election campaign.

If Don Brash and John Banks are charged under s.58 of the Securities Act 1978, then it is my considered opinion, that it will indeed by relevant to this 2011 election campaign.

Why weren’t they charged?

Why shouldn’t they be charged?

If the setting up of the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) was to help restore confidence to the ‘mum and dad’ investors – shouldn’t the FMA help to ensure consistency and accountability in prosecutions, or are some directors, like John Banks and Don Brash effectively ‘untouchable’ because of their political connections at the highest levels?

In the country ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt in the world (along with Denmark and Singapore according to Transparency International’s 2010 ‘Corruption Perception Index’?

Just asking – the HARD questions – that no one else seems to be?

Penny Bright
Independent candidate for Epsom.
Campaigning against ‘white collar crime’, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation) and ‘corporate welfare’.
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November 1, 2011 7:19pm
Sofia

OK – so I haven’t paid much attention to the up-coming Referendum yet, but caught a tv ad with that banal orange animated thing saying – I take it from the website –
“If more than half the voters opt to change the voting system, Parliament will decide if there will be another Referendum in 2014 to choose between MMP and the alternative voting system that gets the most support in the second question in the 2011 Referendum.”

WTF is this ‘Government will decide’ bit
It’s a bloody Referendum for God’s sake
Where is the ‘people will decide’ … eh?
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November 1, 2011 7:49pm
Sofia

So, Penny, you asked John Banks your clever 223 word question.
What was the answer or did John fall asleep while you were asking it?
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November 1, 2011 7:54pm
nasska

Little Johnny was in the classroom bored to the back teeth on a Friday afternoon, and the teacher decided to have a game for the kids to get them thinking.

“Okay class. Now I’m going to say a famous quote, and the first person to tell me who said that quote, can have Monday off.” said the teacher.

‘Who is credited with writing the phrase,’To be or not to be, that is the question’?” asked the teacher.

Little Pham Lam Nguyen at the front of the class called out, ‘Shakespeare’.

‘Well done!’ said the teacher, ‘You can have Monday off.”

‘No thank you Miss. I am of Vietnamese origin and it is in our culture to study as hard as we can, so I will be here on Monday studying hard.’ said Little Pham Lam Nguyen.

‘Well okay,’ said the teacher.

The next quote is, “I had a dream!”

Little Fri Sum Kat also at the front yelled out “I bereiva it was Martin Ruther King!”

“Well done!” said the teacher. ‘You can have Monday off”

“No thanka you miss. I am of Chinese oligin and we also do not take time offa school. Education is evelything to us, so I will be in on Monday studying hard too.” said little Fri Sum Kat.

‘Okay,’ said the teacher.

Then she heard a voice from the back of the classroom, “Fucking Asians!”

“Who said that?” yelled the teacher in an angry tone.

“Winston Peters!” yelled little Johnny. “See ya Tuesday!!!!”
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November 1, 2011 8:00pm
reid

It just got a bit more interesting: Imran Khan takes a stand for Pakistani patriotism against the US.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8858550/Imran-Khan-leads-100000-rally-against-Pakistans-US-alliance.html

Now normally celebrities make shocking politicians so I’m not predicting anything significant here but they are brilliant at arousing groundswell and Khan has no skeletons that would bother his likely support base and with this issue, he could get a huge boost, at a critical phase, what with the US entering the election cycle.
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November 1, 2011 8:05pm
nasska

Don’t be too tough on PhilU being unemployed.

I heard that he came from a tiny fishing village near Alice Springs.
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November 1, 2011 8:30pm
Scott Chris

Winston Peters walks into a bar, sits down and demands a drink. “Get out!” says the bartender. “I don’t serve drunks here”.

So Winston staggers out the front door, only to come back in through the side door. He sits at the bar, bangs his fist and demands a drink. “I just told you to get out, didn’t I?” growls the barman, “Now LEAVE!”.

So Winston gets off his stool, stumbles out the side door and, comes back inside through the back door. Once again, he sits at the bar and loudly demands a drink. The bartender, now glowing mad, looks at the drunk and yells “I TOLD YOU, NO DRUNKS ALLOWED, NOW GET THE FUCK OUT!!!”.

Exasperated, Winston looks up at the bartender and slurs “How many fucking bars do you work at, anyway?”.
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November 1, 2011 8:45pm
Pauleastbay

There are a group of us have breakfast each morning, all different occupations and ages we are just at the same place every morning.

Any how, this morning Max says “One thing, I think the minimum wage should go up to the $15 per hour.

I say ” whose going to pay for it?

He says ” the businesss can out of their profits, they make a hundred % mark up on things, just take the money out of that and the business can earn a bit less.”

Max is a good guy, but thats how he thinks, he’s one of many thousands that think like that. This a true tale , happened this morning.

100 %, FFS, my wife runs our business with staff I am back working for wages at another business, I am wondering where all this wealth is that other people want me to give away
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November 1, 2011 8:54pm
nasska

One for our host:

TVNZ News : Outbreak of new strain of gonorrhoea.

The Ministry of Health advise the best precautions to take against catching sexually transmitted diseases are to dye your hair ginger & take up computer gaming.
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November 1, 2011 8:55pm
reid

Nothing to worry about: whatsoever…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/8857518/Why-the-latest-eurozone-bail-out-is-destined-to-fail-within-weeks.html
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November 1, 2011 8:57pm
minette

immigant (367) Says:
November 1st, 2011 at 8:34 am

minette – I find it laughable that you take TV polls seriosuly. Do you still beleive in fairies and that all people are good?

Immigant, please do yourself, me and the world a favour and read what I actually said before you leap to criticise.
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November 1, 2011 9:22pm
publicwatchdog

@sofia

“So, Penny, you asked John Banks your clever 223 word question.
What was the answer or did John fall asleep while you were asking it?”

The answer to your question, sofia, was in my post – had you bothered to read it a little more carefully?

“The Chair of this public meeting, former Judge Peter Salmond – ruled my question ‘out of order’ because he didn’t think it was relevant to the election campaign.”

In my considered opinion, John Banks was listening VERY carefully to my question, as were fellow candidates and members of the public present at the meeting.

I can understand the consternation of those of you who are apparently ‘soft’ on ‘white collar’ crime to my having the temerity to ask that those now holding the highest leadership positions in ACT are seen to ‘practice what they preach’ regarding ‘one law for all’?

Kind regards.

Penny Bright
Independent candidate for Epsom.
Campaigning against ‘white collar crime’, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation) and ‘corporate welfare’
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November 2, 2011 10:15am
Nookin

Penny
What specific criminal Acts do you attribute to Banks and Brash?
Have you reported them to the police/SFO/commerce commission and if not, why not?
Since when had it become the practice in this country to determine guilt or otherwise of criminal activity as part of an electoral campaign?
If Banks and Brash are guilty, as you assert, then presumably there is no need for and law change – only application of the existing law. So what are you parrotting on about?
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November 2, 2011 10:26am
publicwatchdog

You are not familiar with the ‘Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme’ Registered Prospectus dated 18 September 2009, signed by each of the directors of Huljich Wealth Management (New Zealand) Limited as promoters of the Sheme): Peter Karl Christopher Hulich, Donald Thomas Brash and John Archibald Banks, which contained ‘misstatements’ in the form of graphs which compared “..the performance of the Huljich Kiwisaver Funds to other Kiwisaver funds from the start of Kiwisaver to 9 September 2009”?

You are not familiar with s 58 of the Securities Act 1978 ‘Nookin’?

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1978/0103/latest/DLM29406.html?search=ts_act_Securities+Act+1978_resel&p=1#DLM29406

58 Criminal liability for misstatement in advertisement or registered prospectus

(1) Subject to subsection (2) of this section, where an advertisement that includes any untrue statement is distributed,—

(a) the issuer of the securities referred to in the advertisement, if an individual; or

(b) if the issuer of the securities is a body, every director thereof at the time the advertisement is distributed—

commits an offence.

(2) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (1) of this section if the person proves either that the statement was immaterial or that he or she had reasonable grounds to believe, and did, up to the time of the distribution of the advertisement, believe that the statement was true.

(3) Subject to subsection (4) of this section, where a registered prospectus that includes an untrue statement is distributed, every person who signed the prospectus, or on whose behalf the registered prospectus was signed for the purposes of section 41(1)(b) of this Act, commits an offence.

(4) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (3) of this section if the person proves either that the statement was immaterial or that he or she had reasonable grounds to believe, and did, up to the time of the distribution of the prospectus, believe that the statement was true.

(5) Every person who commits an offence against this section is liable—

(a) on conviction on indictment to—

(i) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years; or

(ii) a fine not exceeding $300,000 and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day or part of a day during which the offence is continued; or

(b) on summary conviction to—

(i) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months; or

(ii) a fine not exceeding $300,000 and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day or part of a day during which the offence is continued.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

I do hope that this information is of assistance ‘Nookin’.

As you are purportedly a lawyer, I’m sure it won’t take you long to ‘get your head around’ it?

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
Candidate for Epsom.
Campaigning against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation) and ‘corporate welfare.

What I want to know is why Don Brash and John Banks were not equally charged along with fellow Director of Huljich Wealth Management (New Zealand) Ltd, Peter Huljich.
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November 2, 2011 11:04am
Nookin

So, Penny
You are saying that the prospectus was false and that neither Brash nor Banks had grounds to believe otherwise? Is that your position?
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November 2, 2011 1:49pm
publicwatchdog

You haven’t read this (yet) ‘Nookin’?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/5690645/Huljich-pleads-guilty-to-misleading-investors

“Auckland fund manager Peter Huljich will be sentenced in December after pleading guilty to a charge under the Securities Act.

He entered the guilty plea in exchange for seven other charges brought against him by the Financial Markets Authority being dropped.

Dressed smartly in a dark grey business suit, Huljich made his plea in the Auckland District Court this morning.

The charge under Section 59 of the act relates to him having misled investors in advertisements for the Huljich KiwiSaver scheme between 2008 and 2010. It carries a maximum penalty of a $300,000 fine.

The advertisements said ”our results speak for themselves” and displayed three graphs setting out the performance of the funds.

However, they failed to disclose that the funds had been inflated by a series of payments from Huljich to make their performance look better.

Meanwhile the company HWM (NZ) Holdings, formerly known as Huljich Wealth Management, has pleaded guilty to two related charges.

Huljich will be sentenced on December 8. A whole day has been set aside for the sentencing, with the judge commenting earlier that it was likely to be “complex”.

ACT Party leader and former Reserve Bank governor Don Brash was a director of Huljich Wealth Management until last October, as was former National Party MP and Auckland City Mayor John Banks….”

Brash and Banks surely can’t have it both ways – they were either commercially competent – or…..?

Penny Bright
Independent Candidate for Epsom
Campaigning against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation), and ‘corporate welfare.
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November 2, 2011 2:22pm
Nookin

Penny, please do not talk all around the issue. Read the section. You quoted the section so you must think that it has some significance. You actually need to read the entire section – not only those parts that establish the offence but also those parts that establish a defence. You demand an explanation as to why they were not charged. You have formed the view that they are guilty. I have simply asked you the basis upon which you say that they cannot have any defence. Your response above is irrelevant. If your basic premise is that national or act party politicians are exempt from prosecution, perhaps you could explain why Sir Douglas Graham was standing in the dock last week? Maybe one of the reasons why neither brash nor Banks has been prosecuted is that somebody with more acumen and understanding of the law and the relevant facts than you has actually looked at the facts and has decided that they are not guilty of an offence or there was insufficient evidence to establish guilt. Why don’t you take the matter up with FMA?
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November 2, 2011 2:47pm

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