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November 16, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 November 2011

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General Debate

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Manolo

You cannot be blamed, only colonialism and genes can.
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November 16, 2011 2:17pm
Black with a Vengeance

Free will or predestination Manolo ?
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November 16, 2011 2:20pm
Scott Chris

Crikey what witty and enlightening repartee.

lol

BWAV’s the ringmaster and the rest of you are the clowns.

rofl
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November 16, 2011 2:22pm
dime

BWAV – I suspect you are close to another 20. You realise it doesn’t take great skill to ruin a thread right? there is nothing clever in what you do. I’m guessing you’re a young fella. If you’re over 30 though, you’re a touch sad.

I call you a labour party stooge because thats what you appear to be. Im not sure the current labour party has ever done anything wrong in your eyes. Thats what makes you boring. Idealogues have their place, but in a debate it just gets tiresome.

It would be great if you toned down the abuse, the emotive language and the sound bite logic of your comments and actually talked policy. It would be fucking great infact.

Be the bigger man, drop the abuse and talk politics.
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November 16, 2011 2:23pm
meh

why is it people believe that state housing is “their home” and protest against the landlords trying to improve the area?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5977659/Glen-Innes-locals-fight-to-save-their-homes

Forgive me for thinking that they should be thankful they get a subsidized house on the public’s dime no matter where it’s located.
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November 16, 2011 2:36pm
Black with a Vengeance

Im not sure the current labour party has ever done anything wrong in your eyes.

It was wrong for Helen to shaft the Greens and kowtow to the Winston first and United Dunne party in the 2005 elections. She deserved to lose in 2008 and i was all for giving Key a fair go.

But the torrent of lies since, the disreputable antics and abuse of parliamentary protocols plus the ideaological need to flog off the states assets to foreign investors when it’s absolutely not neccessary shows he’s not worthy of another term.
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November 16, 2011 2:36pm
dime

BWAV – So have Labour done anything wrong since 2008 in your eyes?

Do you honestly not see the difference between selling a minority holding in selected state assets and “flogging off state assets to foreigners”?

Why is it always to foreigners? I think a high yielding dividend utility stock is a great thing for older kiwis. Safe (unlike the finance companies).
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November 16, 2011 2:48pm
Longknives

My it’s getting nasty on here today….Black With a Vengeance vs the World…
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November 16, 2011 2:56pm
Don the Kiwi

…..flog off the state’s assets to foreign investors…….

You really are a stupid prick aren’t you BWAV. No state assets are being flogged off. A minority shareholding is being made available on the open market – big difference.
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November 16, 2011 2:57pm
Black with a Vengeance

BWAV – So have Labour done anything wrong since 2008 in your eyes?

Handing Goff the leadership in the first place and keeping him on past the Hughes affair. Which is why i tend to argue Labour has the better policies and say nothing about leadership. If the election were solely about policy, Key and the nats wouldn’t get a second look in.

Do you honestly not see the difference between selling a minority holding in selected state assets and “flogging off state assets to foreigners”? a high yielding dividend utility stock is a great thing for older kiwis

Thats not the point. The point is, it’s unneccessary. Older well to do Kiwi mums and dads may still be cashed up enough, despite the collapse of the finance companies many last put their money in, to be able to capitalise on the possible selloff, but as for the rest…not a fucking hope in hell !

Well to do Kiwis don’t need to invest in public owned power companies. There’s a shitload of other stuff they’d be better off putting their money into if it was solely about building a brighter future for NZ as a whole.

The big thing is, the gov’t doesn’t need to even partially sell them…yet. Who knows, there may come a time when it does become neccessary, but now is not that time. We should be exploring every avenue to ensure those assets stay firmly in public hands for as long as possible.

It’s disingenuous to say those companies are performing badly as to warrant private sector management or that the profits from the sales will make up the numbers to balance the books or that if we don’t sell them we will be riddled with debt by Labour in the long term.

If it’s about the best possible outcome for NZ then let Cunliffe and English debate the pros and cons and let’s see some polling on how distasteful or popular a policy it really is.
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November 16, 2011 3:17pm
dime

So you’re against selling shares because not everyone can afford them? That seems to be the main theme that comes through when you discuss this issue.

I imagine the majority of kiwi saver funds will invest in the power companies too. I’m sure they set aside a percentage for low risk, high yield shares. How much of that money goes off shore now?

I think its a good compromise between people who believe the state should own businesses and those who dont. I really dont see a downside.

Price increases? maybe. But they went up 70% under Labour. They wont be as bad as that!

I like the idea that they sell the 49% and have a mandate to grow. They start investing overseas and the entire value of the company grows. Ideally over time the govts share holding will be back to its original size and the shareholders have benefits too.

As it stands im not overly comfortable with the govt investing overseas in other businesses. However, if 49% of it is owned by shareholders – go for it.

I think Mercury already have a power company in chile or somewhere similar. Why not expand on that?
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November 16, 2011 3:27pm
dime

BWAV – one more question. I know its a painful thing, but doesnt part of you hope that Labour get destroyed at this election, allowing them to bring a ton of new people in for next time round?
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November 16, 2011 3:35pm
Black with a Vengeance

So you’re against selling shares because not everyone can afford them?

It’s more that we don’t need to sell them…yet.

I really dont see a downside.

if you were young, poor and not cashed up would you see a downside ?

and remember there are more young, poor and not cashed up than not in NZ.
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November 16, 2011 3:42pm
Viking2

I see snotty Scotty is still plying his sanctimonious self.

No wonder Whale’s blog is getting more hits that Kiwiblog.
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November 16, 2011 3:44pm
Black with a Vengeance

BWAV – one more question. I know its a painful thing, but doesnt part of you hope that Labour get destroyed at this election, allowing them to bring a ton of new people in for next time round?

No…because that ton of new people would be noobs who don’t know shit about parliamentary process or have the confidence to stick it to the old dogs in National so it would take a another term or two on the cross benches to bring them up to speed.

Meanwhile Key and English would likely have fucked the country over so much the damage could be irreparable without anarchy and revolution.

Like a rugby team, you have to blood players slowly and make sure there’s enough wise heads and old dogs around to school the young pups. You also need to know which players can’t cut it in the cauldron of test matches after having only played a few tests.

Key has played his few tests, and even by this latest petulant outburst, found to be wanting, not only in personal form but in leadership qualities as well befitting the captaincy. English, if he were an allblack, should have been retired back to Dipton a good couple of RWC’s ago. Brownlee ?…jeez you just have to look at him.

Then there’s the coaching support staff of Banks and Brash. NO…just fucking NO !!!
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November 16, 2011 3:57pm
bereal

Scott Chris @ 1.09

As you are unable to see the point about what is wrong with running off and pimping to the headmaster
every time another boy makes you cry then you only prove that really are a lost cause.
A mummy boy pimp.
But i think you have more about you than that. i suspect you are not really so shallow.

Seems like you have given up yourself and all you have left is to support BWAV and accuse
everyone else of being clowns, morons, racists, gargoyles etc. etc.

You wouldn’t cop so much stick here if you got off your high horse,
got your sniffy nose out of the air,
stopped being such a sactimonious knowall prig, stopped pimping to Sir, and
stopped being the self appointed policeman of this blogsite and found some humanity.

No one is interested in your idea of the perfect cyberculture. Get it ?

As others have noted, you do have an unfortunate personality but you can change dear.
Not everone hates you.
i love you. Aroha to all my brothers.

i bet you are an only child. Right ?

your posts make it so easy to see into your personality, and it’s like looking through a dirty little window.
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November 16, 2011 3:59pm
dime

“if you were young, poor and not cashed up would you see a downside ?”

Honestly? nope! I know a lot of leftists think the right are all scumbags but I have always voted for what I thought was best for the country.

I was for the introduction of student loans (I borrowed 25 and paid back 45 cause i pissed off to aussie for 5 years and didn’t pay. opps). I was against interest free student loans. even though it would have saved me plenty.

Ive always made my decisions based on economics. basic economics.

I have never voted on “whats best for me?”
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November 16, 2011 4:05pm
dime

“Meanwhile Key and English would likely have fucked the country over so much the damage could be irreparable without anarchy and revolution.”

How so? I would prefer they were a bit further to the right. I dont like that we are borrowing so much and i would be mining the fuck out of the country 🙂

but what exactly stands out to you in labour policies that makes you think they would do a better job? their spending will be through the roof.
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November 16, 2011 4:08pm
grumpyoldhori

Don the Kiwi, arseholes, we the fucking public OWN those fucking assets, not the round table or any scum whose first loyalty is to overseas business interests.
Government wants me to sell MY shares, great send me the certificates and I will sell to the highest bidder.
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November 16, 2011 4:21pm
dime

grumpy – the flipside to that is … how about send me my dividend if i own a piece?
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November 16, 2011 4:23pm
Black with a Vengeance

How so?

Given their record and the ‘dynamic global world’, i don’t trust that Key and English wouldn’t sell of the retaining 51% and whatever else isn’t nailed down in public ownership under the guise of creating jobs and infrastructure.

sure, in the short term Labour is looking to borrow more, but like your student loan, it will get paid off eventually and for the betterment of NZ as whole if it means we still own all our power generating assets.

Their policy for tackling youth unemployment, the other big issue we should be focussing on, is also better as is their even acknowledging the issue of retiring baby boomers and the associated costs and looking to deal with that.
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November 16, 2011 4:24pm
thedavincimode

“There’s a shitload of other stuff they’d be better off putting their money into if it was solely about building a brighter future for NZ as a whole. ”

List please Mr Investment Guru. And I think we should have the detail on this one please.

No?

That’s OK. Nobody would expect you to be able to.
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November 16, 2011 4:26pm
dime

BWAV – i think your distrust is a bit unfair. i think Key laid out what he wouldnt do but then we faced a huge recession. i think/wish he had have done a lot more than he did.

i think its foolish to think that any person can commit 100% to some ideas and stay the course no matter what.

labour on youth unemployment – what is their actual policy? the main stumbling block imho is the lack of youth rates. until they fix that the kids are screwed.

good on them for talking retirement age. it should be done ASAP.
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November 16, 2011 4:33pm
dime

bwav – one last question. do you have any empathy for high earners?

the left seem to think of a high earner as a battery. the politics on envy get involved.

i know a bunch of guys on 100k+ . they have huge mortages, wife at home, babies. they arent exactly living the high life.
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November 16, 2011 4:34pm
Don the Kiwi

Grumpyoldhori.

Shit, you have got your tits in a knot today haven’t you?

If “WE” own the companies – we being kiwis – then the members of the round table are co-owners as well, so get off your fucking high horse – or is it because they’re “rich pricks” that they don’t really deserve a part ownership like you. Or maybe they’re not really kiwis.

Take a grip Grumpy. If you- and “WE – owned them as you say, why did your electricity prices keep going up? why didn’t you do something to prevent that? Because as a state owned monopoly, there’s no control on charges and costs.
Wake up.
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November 16, 2011 4:40pm
ste3e

I used to vote National when good old Jim was about, but ever since Shipley the party has been nothing but spin and lies. Paula Bennet would make a good leader. A little ray of light in all the murk and I really think she believes what she says unlike the other shysters. I have no confidence however that her words are but lollipops to be spun into the ether at the demands of her masters. She should be worried that her masters are about to make her a liar.

And by the way. National do not have a contingency plan for covering the debt, and they will not be able to cover the debt on the only plan they have because it depends upon increased export revenue, and that ain’t going to happen in the current world market.
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November 16, 2011 4:48pm
ste3e

I see the term “rich prick” has come up again. Just like to clarify that from a left perspective the term does not mean “you are a prick because you are rich”, there a heaps of nice rich people doing all manner of wonderful things. The term means “you are a prick that happens to be rich”, which is to say, you are a prick because you are an arrogant self important sod who doesn’t give a shit about anything but yourself, and you happen to be rich. I think y’all understand this. In fact I think most y’all know some rich pricks and would share the opinion.
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November 16, 2011 4:58pm
Nookin

ste3e
The term “rich prick” is a hangover from Cullen. As far as he was concerned, if you were rich then you were a prick. One determined the other.
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November 16, 2011 5:13pm
thedavincimode

“i don’t trust that Key and English”

That’s pretty well your argument around everything isn’t BWAV. Whereas you do trust everyone else.

How’s that investment portfolio coming along?
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November 16, 2011 5:14pm
thedavincimode

ste3e

“National do not have a contingency plan for covering the debt”

Whereas your plan involves printing (literally) more money, hiking company tax to 50%, and telling the overseas money-lenders to get thee hither.

Why, that’s a plan that is so cunning that you could …

… oops, no, it isn’t actually cunning at all.

Tell me, you haven’t been reading up on Pol Pot’s economic text have you – “Economics for Dummies”?
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November 16, 2011 5:20pm
F E Smith

A fasciating op-ed in the WSJ online on Sweden and its economic success, putting paid to the idea of Sweden’s welfare statism being a success.
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November 16, 2011 5:27pm
bereal

Fascinating F E Smith
Hope Sian sees your contribution. For your sake.

WTF do you mean by “putting paid to the idea of Sweeden’s welfare statism being a success”

Please explain.

KISS.
You for or against ?
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November 16, 2011 5:38pm
Black with a Vengeance

bwav – one last question. do you have any empathy for high earners?

of course, they’re also only one precariously hovering pen stroke away from being unemployed and all that entails, especially if they have a bigger mortgage and more debt to service.

though i’m way more empathetic towards lower income earners and youth who can’t capitalise on state asset sales and who are still bearing the brunt of Key and Englishs uneccessary tax swap that also benefitted high income earners more…

…especially if they are Pasifikan.
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November 16, 2011 6:04pm
thedavincimode

No investment portfolio BWAV?

So you were just bullshitting yet again about something you know nothing about?

Whoda thunk.
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November 16, 2011 6:30pm
Black with a Vengeance

No…no investment portfolio DVM.

just some ideas i’d put money into and plan to…

…solar panels, wind turbines, electric vehicles, greenhouses, scholarships and venture capital for innovative ideas.
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November 16, 2011 6:55pm
RF

Soper that tired old left wing hack is trying to inject some interest into what was said at the tea party. Who cares….. There are more important issues such as putting to bed Goof & Peters.
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November 16, 2011 6:59pm
reid

For anyone following Sandusky, it just gets more and more suspicious.

He’s going to get off. The network won’t let him down.

http://deadspin.com/5859075/judge-who-set-unsecured-bail-for-jerry-sandusky-is-a-second-mile-volunteer

+

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/chinese-tv-host-says-regime-nearly-bankrupt-141214.html
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November 16, 2011 7:11pm
wat dabney

“just some ideas i’d put money into and plan to…
…solar panels, wind turbines, electric vehicles, greenhouses, scholarships and venture capital for innovative ideas.”

Damn straight, if the Greens get to rape the taxpayer and bill-payer with their corrupt crony capitalism:

“It is like building a hotel, where you know in advance you are going to have 100 percent room occupancy for 25 years,” said Kevin Smith, chief executive of SolarReserve. His Nevada solar project has secured a 25-year power-purchase agreement with the state’s largest utility and a $737 million Energy Department loan guarantee and is on track to receive a $200 million Treasury grant. ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/business/energy-environment/a-cornucopia-of-help-for-renewable-energy.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=all
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November 16, 2011 7:25pm
wat dabney

Fucking Islam

‘I would do it again 100 times’: Muslim father ‘murdered his THREE daughters in honour killing for dating wrong boys’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061842/Man-murdered-treacherous-daughter-honour-killing-said-hed-100-times.html
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November 16, 2011 7:29pm
wat dabney

Cheese and beer good for you

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2061810/Let-eat-cheese-butter–Some-animal-fats-better-heart.html

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/15/beer_is_good_for_you/

Will the fascist fucks in the Greens and Labour please fuck off.
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November 16, 2011 7:34pm
Steve

This dime guy talks sense. I think a few cogsuckers got their pedigree today
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November 16, 2011 7:53pm
Hurf Durf

Red Russell and Hatfield being given an easy ride on the debate. Quelle surprise!
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November 16, 2011 7:56pm
nasska

Two cowboys from Texas walk into a roadhouse to wash the
trail dust from their throats. They stand at the bar, drinking
a beer and talking about the current cattle prices. Suddenly
a woman at a nearby table, who is eating a sandwich, begins
to cough and choke.

After a minute or so, it becomes apparent that she is in
real distress. One of the cowboys looks at her and says,
“Kin ya swaller?”
The woman shakes her head no.
“Kin ya breathe?”
The woman begins to turn blue and shakes her head.
The cowboy walks over to the woman, lifts
up the back of her dress, yanks down her panties and slowly
runs his tongue from the back of her thigh up to the small
of her back.

The woman is so shocked that she has a violent spasm
and the obstruction flies out of her mouth. As she begins
to breathe normally again, the cowboy walks slowly back
to the bar and takes a drink from his beer.

His partner says, “Ya know, I’d heard of that there
Hind Lick maneuver, but I ain’t never seen nobody do
it before!
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November 16, 2011 8:00pm
Steve

Phark, just had a look at “The Stranded” bunch of haters pretending to be intelligent. Fucking morons. They need a job real bad
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November 16, 2011 8:10pm
reid

Did he really kill himself?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2061265/Facebook-rival-Diasporas-founder-Ilya-Zhitomirskiy-dies-22.html
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November 16, 2011 8:15pm
Yvette

So yes John Key said the NZ First support base is dying off. Wow wee. Does this mean he hates pensioners and wants them all to drop dead so they can’t vote for Winston? Of course not. He simply told John Banks why he didn’t think NZ First were likely to make it back.

Think about this a little more.
Those who may be “dying off” are a generation who do not believe even a politician can lie to them as Winston has [2005 My party will stay on the cross benches, I did not have income with that Owen Glenn]
This is a generation who still have ‘principles’ that Winston can exploit, and of course most of his ploys have just shred enough of some truth in them to ensure such basically trusting people are taken in, but do not see what he is really doing.
The greater the fuss Winston makes about this teapot tape and the supposed insult to ‘his’ voters, the greater the attention you should pay to what he is actually saying.
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November 16, 2011 8:15pm
wat dabney

And tell me grey seal
How does it feel to be so wise
To see through eyes
That only see what’s real
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November 16, 2011 8:19pm
Other_Andy

Larry Lang, chair professor of Finance at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, said in a lecture that he didn’t think was being recorded that the Chinese regime is in a serious economic crisis—on the brink of bankruptcy. In his memorable formulation: every province in China is Greece.

http://tinyurl.com/7c6qygs
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November 16, 2011 8:49pm
nickb

BWAV, you are a dick sir.
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November 16, 2011 8:53pm
Black with a Vengeance

Is that all you got chump ?
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November 16, 2011 9:04pm
wat dabney

BWAV,

Truly, there’s nothing more to be said.

You come across as an ignorant, self-indulgent prick.

Is that what you intend?
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November 16, 2011 9:32pm
Black with a Vengeance

Truly, theres a lot more to be debated before it’s done but your lot aren’t really keen to.

You come across as just another clueless John Key apologist and National party sycophant.

Regardless of your intent, that’s just what you are !
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November 16, 2011 9:37pm
expat

Debate Labour at 28 per cent blackie.
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November 16, 2011 9:43pm
Black with a Vengeance

Debate the policies and the need for state asset sales cowpat.
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November 16, 2011 9:46pm
wat dabney

BWAV,

I find that a little hard to believe, since I’ve posted here how completely useless Key is.

So if you want to come across as a whiny bitch, just keep doing what you’re doing.

Ooh, I’m in favour of central planning by corrupt power-seekers. I’m so compassionate yet edgy. I’m BWAV.
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November 16, 2011 9:49pm
RightNow

Other times, other mores…

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100116495/the-global-economy-is-collapsing-the-solution-is-not-more-media-studies-graduates/
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November 16, 2011 10:40pm
bereal

Goodnite all.

WHat happenened to F E Smith to night ?

2 lines of absolute brilliance then…………………..

……………………….

How dissapointing.

Typical.

Facinating……………..
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November 16, 2011 11:05pm
Black with a Vengeance

jealous much wat ?
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November 16, 2011 11:17pm
The Scorned

Hey Hori…and all other clueless dipshit asset sale opponents…answer this…You say…”the government does not have the right to give our stuff away..”, which assumes it had the right to confiscate wealth from people via tax to begin with in order to fund “our stuff”.

Before you start your lefty bitch whining about how your (inherited) “assets” are being flogged off how about sparing a thought for those who were robbed at the point of the states gun,and still are,to fund the damn things at the cost of not being able to use their money for things THEY valued more than shitty,loss making rail services and poorly preforming telcos,banks,power companies etc etc….?
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November 16, 2011 11:34pm
Manolo

A petty tyrant and Luddite writes: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/5966139/It-might-be-time-to-ban-cigarette-smoking
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November 17, 2011 6:37am

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