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October 28, 2011 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 28 October 2011

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General Debate

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Jinky

I agree with Labour that the entitlement age for super needs to be raised. However the way they propose to do it is too slow and too far off. It’s like taking an elastoplast off very very slowly (prolonging the agony) or ripping it off in one movement(more painful but over more quickly). It needs multi-party agreement rather than being a political football.
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October 28, 2011 8:09am
Lazybum

Nice rates rise for me in Brown Town. The worlds mose liveable city, sounds like a lot of money to me.
Living on the Shore I am looking forward to paying for & using the inner city loopy rail line.
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October 28, 2011 8:12am
KiwiGreg

You need to phase it in slowly jinky because people need time to plan. I also dont agree with retaining universal “entitlement” as it’s just not fair to tax the working poor to pay the retired rich.
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October 28, 2011 8:13am
AndrewE

Loving the Labour ads on Kiwiblog. Making a point to click them so that our good host gets some Labour funding.
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October 28, 2011 8:14am
immigant

Rates going up, Len Brown can kiss my hairy white ass, seems like all the nice suburbs are targeted again. The 50% rise for biz rates in franklin makes no sense tho.
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October 28, 2011 8:37am
Black with a Vengeance

Has anyone seen John Key lately ? If you see him tell him to grow a pair and front up to Phil Goff in a debate k.
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October 28, 2011 8:46am
immigant

Why would Key waste his time on a crippled pony like Goff? To give Goff a shred of publicty/legitimacy?
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October 28, 2011 8:49am
joana

What is Key going to do to protect Pharmac from the might of the US pharma giants? Their catch cry is ”intellectual property” but what of the rights of NZ citizens and the poor of various other countries such as Vietnam? Whether you are a pharma user or not , you will pay for the greatly increased health costs. The US was not even part of this original group…Kevin Rudd felt sorry for them , feeling that they were becoming isolated he invited them to join. Now they are calling all the shots.
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October 28, 2011 8:50am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/robert-greenwald-meet-the-0-01-percent-war-profiteers/

“…There’s the top 1% of wealthy Americans (bankers, oil tycoons, hedge fund managers) –

– and there’s the top 0.01% of wealthy Americans:-

– the military contractor CEOs.

If you’ve been following the War Costs campaign, you already know that these corporations are bad bosses, bad job creators and bad stewards of taxpayer dollars.

What you may not know is that the huge amount of money these companies’ CEOs make off of war and your tax dollars –

– places them squarely at the top of the gang of corrupt superrich choking our democracy.

These CEOs want you to believe the massive war budget is about security — it’s not.

The lobbying they’re doing to keep the war budget intact at the expense of the social safety net is purely about their greed.

In many areas, including yearly CEO salary and in dollars spent corrupting Congress –

– these companies are far greater offenders than even the big banks like JP Morgan Chase or Bank of America…”

(cont…)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 8:51am
Viking2

Fucking usleess Nats. As I blogged earlier today on yesterdays GD It was a given that they would compromise on youth rates and indeed they have.
What useless bastards we have running this outfit.

Nothing for the 16 year olds.

National will reinstate youth minimum wage

Friday, 28, Oct, 2011 7:59AM

A youth minimum wage will be reinstated under a National government.

The Prime Minister’s describing it as a starting out wage for young, first time workers.

It will be set at 80 percent of the adult minimum wage and cover 16 and 17-year-olds in their first six months of work with a new employer.

It will also cover 18 and 19-year-olds who get a job after more than six months on a benefit.

By Katie Bradford-Crozier
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October 28, 2011 8:52am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/robert-scheer-thirty-years-of-unleashed-greed/

“…It is class warfare.

But it was begun not by the tear-gassed, rain-soaked protesters asserting their constitutionally guaranteed right of peaceful assembly –

– but rather the financial overlords who control all of the major levers of power in what passes for our democracy.

It is they who subverted the American ideal of a nation of stakeholders in control of their economic and political destiny.

Between 1979 and 2007, as the Congressional Budget Office reported this week, the average real income of the top 1 percent grew by an astounding 275 percent.

And that is after payment of the taxes that the superrich and their Republican apologists find so onerous.

Those three decades of rampant upper-crust greed unleashed by the Reagan Revolution of the 1980s will be well marked by future historians recording the death of the American dream.

In that decisive historical period the middle class began to evaporate –

– and the nation’s income gap increased to alarming proportions..”

(cont..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 8:54am
Black with a Vengeance

Why would Key waste his time on a crippled pony like Goff?

Beats me why Goff wants to bully and shame Key in a public debate. It’ll only lead to Key putting his hurt schoolboy face on and getting the sympathy vote.
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October 28, 2011 8:58am
david

Question of the day.

Where are the people who claimed that all the oil could have been got off Rena in the 4 days immediately following the stranding?

We need a rogues gallery of some kind for surely the credibility of a bunch of regular “opinionators” posing as instant experts must now be absolutely so shot full of holes that nothing they say in future is worth considering.

Same applies to earthquake responses and mine explosions but I suspect that the same group of suspects would be identified as the instant experts on those two subjects as well.
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October 28, 2011 8:59am
thedavincimode

maggie

All top points. A devasting analysis from Magpie central. By hokey, you must have been up and hard at work early today. 🙂

However, I would just make one comment in their defence. They all go to work and they aren’t career beneficiaries who are just too plain lazy to even get off their backsides to go and support those they think are defending their bludging lifestyles.

“(cont…)”

You mean there’s more??

Praise the Lord!
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October 28, 2011 9:00am
Viking2

Key ain’t gonna debate anyone. Politics is no longer a contest of ideas but a job for the boys.
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October 28, 2011 9:00am
Manolo

Politics is no longer a contest of ideas but a job for the boys.

Truer than ever in today’s moron and bludger-infested New Zealand.
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October 28, 2011 9:02am
thedavincimode

david

“Where are the people who claimed that all the oil could have been got off Rena in the 4 days immediately following the stranding? ”

Unfortunately, the leading expert on this stuff spends all day rummaging around on this blog. Its unacceptable given his expertise is required more than ever now that they’ve got to the really hard stuff below the waterline.
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October 28, 2011 9:03am
Fisiani

Have a look at http://www.oweourfuture.co.nz and see for yourself how Labour has already promised to spend an extra $16,000,000,000 and fund it by borrowing overseas.
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October 28, 2011 9:16am
peterwn

joana – no worries with Pharmac. Big Pharma has similar problems with the HMO’s in USA – they hire doctors and have their internal approved lists of medicines to keep costs down.

In any trade negotiations it would be unwise to ‘rule out’ any aspect at the beginning, as this limits bargaining power. Big Pharma are not actually at the table. So you offer something to the ‘other side’ which is highly symbolic but costs little, for example a few million a year for ‘leading edge’ drugs. This is exactly what the likes of Tim Groser (his pre-Parliamentary job was international negotiations) do in negotiations and he helps John Key by utilising these skills whether for international trade or stitching together a coalition.

So Pharmac is essentially safe.
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October 28, 2011 9:17am
wreck1080

looks like the gfc is over.

Stocks are racing up, NZD is nearing back to recent record ever highs, auckland property prices are increasing.

Time to ask for a payrise , wooohooo.
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October 28, 2011 9:22am
Lee01

What is Key going to do to protect Pharmac from the might of the US pharma giants?

With a bit of luck, nothing.
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October 28, 2011 9:33am
Lee01

the financial overlords who control all of the major levers of power in what passes for our democracy.

It is they who subverted the American ideal of a nation of stakeholders in control of their economic and political destiny

My goodness, what a lot of dishonest tripe.

The people who subverted America were the Democrats in the 1930’s with the New Deal and in the 60’s with the Great Society, both of which chrushed American freedoms and the basis for sound money and enterprise under a bloated welfare/warfare leviathan state.
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October 28, 2011 9:38am
Elaycee

Quardle ardle oodle ardle wardle doodle

(Contd…)
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October 28, 2011 9:42am
nasska

The armchair experts don’t know how good they have it. The ‘Rena’ salvors are not exactly 9 to 5 men:

….”Over 800 tons of oil has been removed from the Rena as the salvage team completed pumping out the port number five tank. The remaining 600 tons are located in other four other tanks. The starboard number 5 tank is submerged will be much more difficult task. The salvage team needs to reach an underwater manhole access hatch in pitch black conditions with everything disoriented due to the heavy list. The team is trying to dam off the section and pump out the water around it to gain access. The starboard number 5 tank has 350 tons of oil to be removed. In addition, there are three other tanks in the engine room holding a combined 250 tons of oil still to go. Salvors are also attempting to pump out oil from the settling tanks. The remaining amount of oil in the settling tanks is not known but estimates place it under 100 tons.”…..

Reference: http://www.shipwrecklog.com/log/

As an aside….wouldn’t it be great if the MSM reported news the way that the guy who owns the “shipwrecklog” site does. Facts, just facts without spin & crap interviews with over emotional halfwit seagull cuddlers.
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October 28, 2011 9:56am
backster

I must think about voting Labour after all their policies so far need a lot of thought.

1. Increase top tax rate back from 28% to 39%
2. Install a Capital Gains Tax.
3. Increase retirement age from65 to 67.
4. Double the rate of Global Warming Tax.

Well maybe not much thought at all.
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October 28, 2011 9:57am
philu

david said..”..We need a rogues gallery of some kind for surely the credibility of a bunch of regular “opinionators” posing as instant experts must now be absolutely so shot full of holes that nothing they say in future is worth considering..”

..anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention knows the inattention for that long initial period is what caused the fuel to ‘freeze’..

..which is what has been the major problem since then..

..so really..those criticisms of inaction are only further strengthened by that fact..eh..?

..and really..you don’t seem to have much of a clue…eh..?

..and as for the ‘silences’..?

..i think most of us are watching the weather forecasts with more attention than usual..

..and many are engaging/indulging in a mix of religious and secular prayers…

..there is not much else to say right now..

..but don’t mistake silence for the problem just ‘going away’..eh..?

..the longer this goes on..

..the harder/stronger the anti-drilling mood grows..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 10:05am
philu

crikey leo..that’s a long arc you draw…

..so capitalisim/globalisation now eating itself …and the planet…here in 2011..

..is actually caused by a person in the 1930’s in america..

..that’s a refreshing view..eh..?

..no other factors between then and now..?

..d’yareckon..?

..i dunno..maybe rampant deregulation under reagan/clinton..?

..could had something to do with it..?

..d’yareckon..?

..and leo..i see you also want us to pay american prices for drugs..?

..really..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 10:10am
Falafulu Fisi

“Mr Brownlee: Tear down this wall!”

Do all these government/state worshipers (Pete George, et al) here including politicians and bureaucrat fuckers understand Hayek’s concept of spontaneous order in a self-organized/complex system? Authorities/Central planners should get the hell out of the way & fuck off and let the market spontaneous order mechanism works its magic.
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October 28, 2011 10:14am
KiwiGreg

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10762180

I hate these headlines (and the policies). It’s not “free” fuckers – it’s just someone else paying.
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October 28, 2011 10:23am
Scott Chris

nasska quotes:- “The salvage team needs to reach an underwater manhole access hatch in pitch black conditions”

I take it they are diving at night then. Mind you, the divers can’t take a candle down there because it might set the whole thing ablaze!

Gimme a snorkle and a pair o’ speedos and a length of garden hose and I’ll have the job done by lunchtime.
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October 28, 2011 10:23am
nasska

Scott Chris

…”Gimme a snorkle and a pair o’ speedos and a length of garden hose and I’ll have the job done by lunchtime.”….

Great & thanks…..if you’re not too buggered afterwards we’ll get you to sort out peace in the Middle East in the afternoon.
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October 28, 2011 10:30am
ciaron

Gee Scott, that’s a damn weapons-grade-idiot thing to say.
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October 28, 2011 10:30am
alex Masterley

Nasska,

The Shipwreck site is good for pure information, but not the sensation the media craves.

There is a good photo of the conditions the switzer guys are working in down below that shows how difficult the oil recovery operation is.

BTW any body seen toad recently?
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October 28, 2011 10:34am
RightNow

Occupy Las Vegas protesters nearly hit by falling toilet waste from Airforce One.

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/41638
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October 28, 2011 10:38am
immigant

why does that philu guy type like a retard? Is that to make him standout because he is ‘diffirent’ to other posters or does he actualy have brain damage that prevents him from typing like an adult?
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October 28, 2011 10:43am
nasska

alex Masterley

You’re bang on about the sensationalism but that is all you get…..sentimental tripe undiluted or tainted with facts. Surely we are not the only people on the planet who would prefer to see what the salvors are up against rather than unmitigated tripe & conjecture.

Toad has been conspicuous by his absence of late….maybe he has used up this months allocation of waffle & hyperbole. In any case the spokesman for the Greens in their new incarnation as supporters of the downtrodden is probably dodging the soap at Aotea Square.
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October 28, 2011 10:49am
KiwiGreg

Wow just went past a massive demonstration of people power outside the Citibank building. There may have been as many as 12 people involved, although i may have accidently counted innocent, yet poorly dressed, bystanders. I’m guessing its because the US consulate is in the building. The surrounding pedestrians were not sympathetic, it’s fair to say.
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October 28, 2011 10:52am
nasska

immigant

There has been considerable debate on the points you raised… general consensus favours the concussion theory.
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October 28, 2011 10:56am
Fletch

Speaking of the Greens, I see they released a statement today saying that it is discrimination against Catholics that they can never be King/Queen by Royal succession.

Green MP Keith Locke says that any changes to the royal succession laws must end all discrimination against Catholics.

British Prime Minister David Cameron has proposed to other nations with Queen Elizabeth as Head of State a change in royal succession law to remove the bias against female heirs and the disqualification on a heir who marries a Catholic. The move, which Mr Cameron is pushing at CHOGM, would require legislative changes in several Parliaments, including New Zealand’s.

“The Government should tell Mr Cameron that any reform bill going through our Parliament will also end the prohibition against a Catholic ascending to the throne,” said Mr Locke.

“To do otherwise makes a mockery of our Human Rights Act, which prevents discrimination on religious grounds.

“We should ask Mr Cameron to be a little bolder and remove all discrimination against Catholics.

“If that means the Monarch can no longer automatically be head of the British Anglican Church, so be it.

“Of course, all these changes leave more fundamental questions like why our Head of State lives in Britain and why the Head of State is determined by inheritance, rather than by a democratic process.

“We only need to look to Ireland for a good example. The Irish go to the polls today to elect a non-executive president who has limited powers, not dissimilar to those of the British monarch,” said Mr Locke.

http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/royal-succession-changes-must-end-all-discrimination-against-catholics

I am wondering why the sudden interest about discrimination against Catholics? I find the ~~Red~~ Green brigade usually very anti-Catholic, and anti-Pope. I am supposing that if a Catholic were to be made Monarch then he/she would be an easier target for Liberals and thus more of an argument could be made for a republic in NZ?
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October 28, 2011 10:58am
thedavincimode

ciaron

tsk tsk

Attack the messenger, not the message.

Okey dokey

Means tested super with it abating to zero at, say, 50k pa. Means testing to include imputing income on advances to trusts and imputing trust income to trust beneficiaries.

No super for anyone who has spent their lives on DPB.

Immediate family members required to contribute to the perennially indolent – eg child support. Why do families not meet family responsibilities?

Capital gains tax at normal income tax rates in the form of taxing imputed income at risk-free rate per that consultative document that Herr Dokter commissioned. No exemptions AT ALL.

CG tax revenue to reduce income tax – not a revenue raiser.

First 20k tax-free and increase GST to 20%. No middle and above tax cuts for the next 3 years or so – we can’t afford it. 50% of the tax saving is compulsorarily saved.

Put Klerk and Herr Dokter in prison.

Set a beneficiary minimum wage (“BMW”) (chhssst) level in excess of benefit payments and enable benficiaries to earn up to that before benefits fuully abate. Make the BMW less than the statutory minimum wage (annualised) and more than the benefit).

Make Liabore and Peters give the money back.

Youth rate should be 60% of minimum wage for 6 months and then increase to 80% for 12 months. Pass a parliamentary motion thanking the 80% who pay all the tax for the efforts and forbearance in taking further take cuts at this time.

Put Peters in prison.

This is just the broad detail, subject to costing – someone got those numbers?
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October 28, 2011 11:01am
Scott Chris

ciaron says:- “Gee Scott, that’s a damn weapons-grade-idiot thing to say.”

And presumably what you just said was a weapons grade obliviousness to irony.
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October 28, 2011 11:03am
thedavincimode

rightnow

Good to see Obama doesn’t discriminate. He just shits on everyone.
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October 28, 2011 11:07am
thedavincimode

“And presumably what you just said was a weapons grade obliviousness to irony.”

I don’t know Scott.

Why don’t you just try to be a bit more friendly. Did you have trouble making friends at school?

That was just uncalled for. 🙁
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October 28, 2011 11:09am
side show bob

“why does that philu guy type like a retard?” It’s not his fault immigant, WINZ would only fund a second hand, sticking keyboard after the public library threw his sorry arse out into the street having worn theirs out.
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October 28, 2011 11:11am
ciaron

Scott, given your previous flights of fancy on this topic, one can only assume you comment in all seriousness.
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October 28, 2011 11:15am
RightNow

Herman Cain is shaping up to be a strong contender for the GOP nomination. On foreign policy:

“Peace through strength, and my philosophy is peace through strength and clarity. I believe that we need to clarify who our friends are. We need to clarify who our enemies are, so we can stop giving money to our enemies and we can tell the world who our friends are that we are going to stand with, like the country of Israel.”
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October 28, 2011 11:27am
shady

Jeez! What?!!! Another ship grounding at Tauranga?!!! http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5869499/Ship-runs-aground-at-Tauranga-harbour-entrance
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October 28, 2011 11:31am
Scott Chris

daincimode says:- “That was just uncalled for.”

lol! So a guy calls me an idiot, and I respond by pointing out his missing of irony, and I’m being offensive?

Funny how narrow some peoples’ thinking is.

At school, I got on okay I guess. Wasn’t Mr Popular, but I had allies.

“Why don’t you just try to be a bit more friendly”

I’m perfectly friendly. You may see yourself as part of an established peer group here, and that I should somehow try to fit in, but I don’t see it that way at all.

I’m not an intolerant conservative. I’m a centrist liberal, so there’s bound to be some friction.
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October 28, 2011 11:37am
thedavincimode

“I’m perfectly friendly.”

Are you sure Scott? Its just that sometimes you seem a bit prickly. 🙁
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October 28, 2011 11:47am
Jinky

Scott was that you being ironic again?
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October 28, 2011 11:48am
alex Masterley

Shady,

It’s been refloated and will go back to the wharf so divers can see how big the dent is.

I think the pilot would have said bugger.
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October 28, 2011 11:49am
ciaron

I’ve just had another read of your comment there Scott. Still looks like a silly thing to say.
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October 28, 2011 11:49am
Elaycee

Jesus wept.

1380 comments from the bionic gob in just 44 days. An average of 31+ per day. 🙁

Each one a reason to download Firefox RIP. 😛
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October 28, 2011 11:54am
shady

Re the latest grounding – all I can say is “Phew!” Can imagine the shrills from people calling for JK’s head – after all – must be his fault.
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October 28, 2011 11:55am
Elaycee

@alex Masterley – Do you know whether there has been a change to the pilot outer limit for the Port of Tauranga (given the advice that there are many containers still missing from the Rena)?

Do container ships / all vessels still have to be ‘escorted’ in / out of the harbour by a vessel from RNZN (effectively ‘mine sweeping’ for containers)?
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October 28, 2011 12:03pm
Scott Chris

Heck, I just respond in kind. I certainly pick on the genuinely nasty people though. Speaking of whom:

Elaycee notes:- “1380 comments from the bionic gob in just 44 days. An average of 31+ per day”

Make that 1381. Ka-ching! 😛
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October 28, 2011 12:06pm
Weihana

# RightNow (3,298) Says:
October 28th, 2011 at 11:27 am

Herman Cain is shaping up to be a strong contender for the GOP nomination. On foreign policy:

“Peace through strength, and my philosophy is peace through strength and clarity. I believe that we need to clarify who our friends are. We need to clarify who our enemies are, so we can stop giving money to our enemies and we can tell the world who our friends are that we are going to stand with, like the country of Israel.”

Has he decided whether or not the electric fence on the border was a joke or not yet? Also has he cleared up whether or not he’s pro-life or whether it’s the woman’s choice?

Someone should inform him that contradictory statements cannot at the same time be true.
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October 28, 2011 1:07pm
philu

fletch..!..how about that/your pope coming out as an ‘occupier’..eh..?

..that must have rocked yr boat..eh..?

..and not in a nice way..

..i wd imagine..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 1:23pm
RightNow

Weihana – send him a letter:
Campaign Headquarters:
P.O. Box 2158
Stockbridge, Georgia 30281
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October 28, 2011 1:28pm
RightNow

Labour has more ‘balls’, says Goff
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10762235

So much for gender equality in their list.
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October 28, 2011 1:33pm
Paulus

There has been a suggestion in the BOP that local iwi will charge for destruction of their reef, by mv RENA.
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October 28, 2011 1:46pm
graham

@ philu:

I assume when you claim that the Pope supports the occupiers, you are referring to the Guardian article here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/24/vatican-calls-crackdown-financial-market

I suggest you read the article.

1. The article refers to a document from the Holy See. As someone (Lucia Maria maybe?) has already pointed out, it probably wasn’t written by the Pope himself 🙂

2. The document suggests that the United Nations could police the financial markets and ensure they operate ethically. While that is along similar lines to some of the things that the occupiers are saying, it’s ever so slightly different to “the Pope supporting the Occupiers”, as you claim.

3. It also mentions a Financial transactions tax. Again, I have seen this mentioned by some of the occupiers worldwide. But again, to say this shows the Pope is supporting the occupiers is the same as saying he supports the Mana Party, who also support a FTT. I suspect the Pope has never even heard of the Mana Party …

4. According to one of the Bishops, the document is built on existing Vatican teaching. Which I would assume is based on the Bible (I’m not a Catholic). So as the Vatican and the Bible have been around long before the Occupy movement, I think you have it around the wrong way. Let’s turn it around and say the Occupiers obviously support the Cathoic Church and the Pope.
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October 28, 2011 1:47pm
F E Smith

Scott Chris,

I’m a centrist liberal

Yes, the delusion of the left, who think that they are centrists and that the centre-right people are extreme right. Typical of the lefties, move the goalposts and then say you were right all along. Hold on, that is what you do…
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October 28, 2011 1:51pm
philu

“..it probably wasn’t written by the Pope himself :)..”

nobody claimed that..but it has been released in his name…eh..?

yr mana reference is just silly..and does you no favours..

..as is yr number 4..

..meh..!

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 1:55pm
wreck1080

For those who argue that directors and board members deserve their large pay packets…

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/business-as-usual-top-directors-get-49-per-cent-rise-2376929.html

The directors of Britain’s largest companies were last night condemned as “elite greedy pigs” for pocketing a 49 per cent pay rise in the past year, while average workers failed even to keep up with inflation.

I don’t mind people getting paid big amounts when they are growing profits and increasing overall wealth for employees (which is the oft-used justification) .But why such massive increases during a depression?

Britain is an economic wasteland and the middle class are being absolutely hammered.

This is the reason for sit-in’s around the world.
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October 28, 2011 1:58pm
big bruv

Phool

741 Minimum wage jobs on trade me this morning. How many have you applied for?
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October 28, 2011 2:18pm
graham

@philu:

You’re using this as proof that the Pope supposedly actively supports the occupiers. I’m simply pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. And as for the reference to Mana being “silly” – I don’t see why, it’s no sillier than your claims. Works exactly the same way.

Look, you’re claiming that because a document released by the Vatican just happens to support some of the same principles as some of the principles espoused by the occupiers, therefore the Pope supports the occupiers. Do I really need to point out the fundamental flaw in your logic here?

Here’s another quote from the Pope to rock your day: “It is important to recognize dissent for what it is, and not to mistake it for a mature contribution to a balanced and wide-ranging debate.” Which sounds like a huge serve to the occupiers …

Never a good idea to cherry-pick quotes which support what you want them to; someone can always find another one to take out of context right back at you.
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October 28, 2011 2:20pm
bereal

graham
It matters not that you refute our mate philu ( or his deciple Scot Chris ) with facts.
They will ignore your point and respond with a question. Same old pittiful act over and over.
Thats all they have.
That is their whole act. Thats all you will ever get.

Isn’t that right philu ? ,,,,,,,,,,,eh?
meh…….!!!!!!!!!!!
eh……………….???????????????????????
(cont)…….whor………….eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Duh ?????????????
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October 28, 2011 2:27pm
Manolo

Ah, the cheeky followers of the vile religion of peace: http://radio.foxnews.com//toddstarnes/top-stories/muslims-want-catholic-school-to-provide-room-without-crosses.html
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October 28, 2011 2:32pm
nasska

Suggestion for any unwashed dole scroungers or solo fathers who may be reading.

A blank post-it note stuck on the fridge door will be a useful reminder that you have nothing to do today.
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October 28, 2011 2:33pm
graham

Hey, here’s another one for you, philu. A quote from that same article:

“To function correctly the economy needs ethics, and not just of any kind but one that is people-centred.”

And I see that National have promised to extend free doctor visits for young children to after-hours. Wow, that sounds “people-centred” to me. There ya go – the Pope supports National!!!

This is fun 🙂
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October 28, 2011 2:33pm
Manolo

Labour has more ‘balls’, says Goff

Did anyone tell Maryan Street?
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October 28, 2011 2:34pm
bereal

graham
i know you are having fun with philu .
But, don’t make the mistake of thinking he is a worthy adversary.
You will soon discover that this empty nonce really has nothing.
There is actually nobody home there.
It turns out to be as much fun as shooting dead fish in a barrell.
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October 28, 2011 2:41pm
graham

And, talking of the occupiers, the latest meeting minutes are up on the website.

Penny (I assume our beloved Ms Bright) is making a name for herself – her name appears in the minutes more and more. Including this announcement:

“Penny announces 1.We have the right to protest/ demonstration/ and any bylaw is in breach of our human rights”

Really? So just by saying “it is so”, absolutely ANY bylaw is in breach of my human rights? Damn, wish I’d thought of that one …

Oh, and apparently there is a conspiracy against them. “Linda announces there is a Media Blackout/ they arent representing us or or voice”

Typical MSM, hmmm? Deliberately ignoring them.
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October 28, 2011 2:55pm
bereal

dear old philu will now be off having a little sob.
a quiet moment with himself.

he will be back soon but,
of course he will ignore all of the above and
return with a totally new non point.
It’s the same old same old deja vue all over again.
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October 28, 2011 3:01pm
graham

@bereal, I’m not trying to have a go at philu – honest! But he has trotted out the “Pope supports the occupiers” line for a few days now, and it’s started to annoy me because it is blatantly dishonest and misleading. Just thought it was time he got called on it.
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October 28, 2011 3:07pm
Scott Chris

FE Smith opines:- “the delusion of the left, who think that they are centrists”

How do you define the political spectrum Smith?
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October 28, 2011 3:17pm
bereal

And there goes Scott Chris proving the point for all to see.
Scott, do you have anyting else in your bag except to avoid the point and then ask
a question ?
Your whole act is getting about as shallow and boring as your mentor philu.
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October 28, 2011 3:24pm
RightNow

I’m not so sure bereal, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt by asking the question back:

Scott Chris – How do YOU define the political spectrum?
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October 28, 2011 3:37pm
dime

scott – you are the most unlikeable person here.
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October 28, 2011 3:45pm
bereal

Oh, so much fun.
RightNow, if Scott had a pair you would have got him by the balls.
Do not expect an answer, other than another question.
You have found him out.
Also do not expect to se his mentor philu for a while.
He is having a little cry.
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October 28, 2011 3:45pm
bereal

Aw shit, i’ve been waiting.
Philu 10.700 odd comments and
Scott Chris 2,400 odd comments.
Why have they gone silent ?
C’mon girls, you must have something to say.
Have you just given up?
i was expecting some sort of a fightback,
not just a craven surrender.
Try to respond to any of the above, other than with a question.
Surely your not that weak ?
Oh, it’s tea time. Right ?
You must have something about you. …………..eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lets see it …………….worh …………. Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(cond.)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<eh !!!!!
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October 28, 2011 4:18pm
philu

“..Look, you’re claiming that because a document released by the Vatican just happens to support some of the same principles as some of the principles espoused by the occupiers, therefore the Pope supports the occupiers. Do I really need to point out the fundamental flaw in your logic here?..”

yes..i am sure i am not the only one who thinks that a deliberate statement issued by the vatican..on the major social movement of the time..echoing many of the demands of that movement..

..logically … has the approval of the boss of the vatican..eh..?

(leans forward..hands cupped under chin..)

..do tell..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 4:28pm
philu

“..And I see that National have promised to extend free doctor visits for young children to after-hours. ..”

yes that is good..no complaints there..

..but don’t forget..peters always carries/gets the kudos for getting that in the first place..eh..?

..that free health care for under sixes..

(steels self for accusations of being a peters-supporter..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 4:33pm
philu

and gee beryl..don’t be so demanding..

..i told you i am over at frogblog..

..arguing my boots off against any idea of the greens supporting nact…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 4:35pm
philu

“..deja vue..”(sic..)

is that the name of your house…?..there..beryl..

..would be kinda appropriate..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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October 28, 2011 4:38pm
F E Smith

actually, bereal is absolutely right- rightnow has asked an absolutely brilliant question.

Come on, Scott, tell us How do YOU define the political spectrum?
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October 28, 2011 4:42pm
RightNow

Here’s one of those ‘better work stories’:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/drunk-topless-woman-leads-police-on-200kmh-chase-through-ohio/story-e6frf7lf-1226179384934
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October 28, 2011 5:14pm
kowtow

Manolo

That Muslim/human rights story is so silly it’s just not funny.

Private Catholic university,therefore HR wallahs should tell the lawyer to Fuck off mate you’re wasting evryones time!
Catholic Unis should now say to prospective students of a particular religion of peace and tolerance ” Hey you know you lot are too troublesome to admit go find your own place.
Muslims and their apologists are always telling us that Jesus is a prohet of Islam….OK boys then what’s your problem?

Ah the joys of multiculturalism.
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October 28, 2011 5:34pm
Scott Chris

F E Smith says:- “YOU define the political spectrum”

That isn’t really relevant, as you were the one who contradicted my assertion that I was a centrist liberal and claimed I belong on the left. I’m simply asking for clarification.

However, as you ask, I gauge my position as a centrist by this definition:

I propose that the ideal government is one which only intervenes to fairly resolve conflicts of interest, and one which is appointed by its constituents to act as an impartial arbitrator.

Fairness is derived from the assumption that all humans beings are born intrinsically equal, and are then granted the right, by mutual societal consent, to a *reasonable* opportunity to pursue happiness.

In short, minimal fair government, founded on the assumption that humans are primarily self-interested, but reasonable, and therefore willing to compromise.

Now it’s your turn. Why am I a lefty by YOUR definition of the political spectrum. We need that first.
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October 28, 2011 5:35pm
thedavincimode

Now now Scott. This is exactly why you were Mr Spots at school.

You see, to be fair, you haven’t actually proposed anything other than some bland fuzzy wuzzy type thing.

Before anyone can respond and debate respective positioning on the global political thingy, to be fair you need to:

1. define government

2. define what is “fair

3. indicate the means of resolution

4. identify the nature of the conflicts that your defined government “resolves”

6. define what constitures a “conflict of interest”for these purposes

7. explain how a government may act impartially given that its existence is attributable to partisan interests and whether that necessitates some alternative means of appointing governments.

No fancy words either to try and confuse us.
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October 28, 2011 6:02pm
thedavincimode

Scott, to be fair, I shouldn’t have left that question so open-ended – it should have been qualified by the context that you were contemplating by your use of the notion of “ideal government” (as if 🙂 ).

So with that in mind,

1. Does your ideal government have to deal with ideal or non-ideal external governments?
2 . Ideal or non-ideal citizens eg people that blow themselves under your bedroom window if they aren’t happy?
3. Does you ideal government have ideal weather or does it live in Glasgow?
4. Do things ever go wrong that are outside the sphere of control of your ideal government?
5. Would your ideal government need to be good-looking so we don’t have to look at ugly people on TV? ( 🙂 )
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October 28, 2011 6:22pm
bereal

C’mon Scott,
F E Smith @ 4.42
How do you define the political spectrum ?
You are really pathetic Scott.
You have been found out and you have no answer
How do you …etc
Your purile answer is……..’That isnt really relevant’
even you must know what a joke you are.
But,
If it was relevant, how would a nonce such as you respond ?
Just say, you had to respond and not evade the question, how would you respond ?
Have you ever responded to any question ?
Have a try. Now is your chance. Show us what you’ve got.
How would you respond other than ask a question ?
Try and respond with a straight up answer.
i dare you.
Bet you can’t.
Otherwise, a nonce like your mentor philu.
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October 28, 2011 6:23pm
Manolo

Who unleashed the thedavincimode on the rest of us? The bugger appears as unstoppable as the bludger Ure. 🙂
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October 28, 2011 6:31pm
bereal

Why would anybody waste their time talking to a total nonce like Scott Chris ?
he never even tries to explain his position.
Typical of his type.
You would be better talking to his pupeteer, philu.
C,mon Scott, go far it baby, nows your chance.
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October 28, 2011 6:32pm
reid

1. Does your ideal government have to deal with ideal or non-ideal external governments?
2 . Ideal or non-ideal citizens eg people that blow themselves under your bedroom window if they aren’t happy?
3. Does you ideal government have ideal weather or does it live in Glasgow?
4. Do things ever go wrong that are outside the sphere of control of your ideal government?
5. Would your ideal government need to be good-looking so we don’t have to look at ugly people on TV?

My ideal govt is me, in a fort, looking down on the people, with lots of pretty female servants with me, in the fort.
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October 28, 2011 6:35pm
bereal

all bullshitting aside Scott Chris…..
how do you define the political spectrum ?
Must be a fair question cause you can ask it of others,, try
Show that your not totally full of it.
Go for it ………………
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October 28, 2011 6:39pm
bereal

Hey Manolo,
regarding thedavincimode,
he makes a lot more sense than you do.
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October 28, 2011 6:46pm
thedavincimode

Manolo

You silver-tongued devil you. 🙂

reid

I think you just pinched Scott’s idea of the ideal government … and mine
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October 28, 2011 6:48pm
Manolo

Dear bereal, all I can say is that the word sarcasm is missing from your vocabulary.
As a proud Labour lite supporter you appear impervious to irony.
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October 28, 2011 6:51pm

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