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October 1, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 1 October 2011

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General Debate

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reid

No, it did not. The Goverment could easily have amended the legislation to authorise video surveillance. There was nothing to require it to do so retrospectively.

FES perhaps you should talk to Chris Finlayson to understand his reasons.

But are you really suggesting that simply amending the law to authorise video surveillance from the date of enactment would be seen as a weak government?

Yes. Since the public, surprisingly enough, actually think bad people need to be caught and if that means taping them then that’s just fine.

Yes, those of us with a few more thoughts think further, but that politics for you so live with it, you can’t change it.

Of course, there was an Option D: do nothing. That was an option that the SC would have had to calculate in as well.

What you are saying, reid, is that the SC should consider all possible political outcomes and either do what it thinks the Government would want, or else time its judgments so to cause the least amount of inconvenience to the Government. Next you will tell me that the SC should take note of public opinion when coming to a decision!

No I’m not saying that in any way FES and were we opposing counsel in Court I imagine His Honour would pull you up for such a suggestion lickity split. Crikey.

No what I’m saying is to the SC this was a drop dead obvious opportunity to either:
(a) attempt to highly embarrass the govt
(b) shape the law in a pragmatic manner without embarrassing the govt by delaying the announcement of the decision which would have been no big deal by comparison to the massively explosive, touchy and highly volatile and unpredictable risk represented by (a).

For some reason they didn’t chose Option B. Who knows why, but they didn’t. Silly them.
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October 1, 2011 7:16pm
F E Smith

No I’m not saying that in any way FES and were we opposing counsel in
Court I imagine His Honour would pull you up for such a suggestion
lickity split. Crikey.

I don’t think I would have to say that in Court- I think the judge would do it for me!

No what I’m saying is to the SC this was a drop dead obvious opportunity to either:

(a) attempt to highly embarrass the govt

So unlikely as to be unworthy of consideration

(b) shape the law in a pragmatic manner to prevent potential future threats

What potential threats?

(c) shape the law in a pragmatic manner without embarrassing the govt by
delaying the announcement of the decision which would have been no big
deal by comparison to the massively explosive, touchy and highly
volatile and unpredictable risk represented by (a).

reid, they weren’t shaping the law. They were telling us what it already was, which was something the cops, the law commission, Parliament and most of the rest of the criminal practitioners already knew. This isn’t rocket science, nor is it a surprise.

I maintain that the SC is in no way to blame for the government taking a bad decision to pass criminal law with retrospective effect. The blame, however much it is, rests entirely with the Government.

perhaps you should talk to Chris Finlayson to understand his reasons.

I have read what explanatory material the Government has put out. I, and, might I point out, the New Zealand Law Society, think he is very wrong.

Actually, the Law Society, in its submission on this bill, pointed out that not only have the Police apparently been breaking the law in their illegal video surveillance, they have also been routinely failing to disclose such actions to the defence in relevant cases, thus also breaching requirements of the Disclosure Act.

It appears that the Police think that the law of the land should not apply to them. That is the view that this bill supports. It is bad law, pure and simple. Trying to blame the SC for the debacle since the decision is thoroughly wrong.
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October 1, 2011 7:25pm
nickb

Bad indictment on the Samoan education system:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/5716454/Angry-Samoan-star-tweets-of-referee-bias

If people are now using “racism” as an excuse for losing a rugby match it sure shows that less and less people who cry “racist” really know what that term means.

No Mr Sapulo, you dumb fuck (am I racist for using that phrase?) racist would be the NZRU insisting on separate training facilities for brown and white people. Not a few rough calls going against you in a sports game. FFS
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October 1, 2011 7:33pm
F E Smith

what a fantastic game that was!

Now just let’s hope the Scots can beat the Poms.
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October 1, 2011 7:50pm
nasska

A farmer got pulled over by a cop for speeding
and the cop started to lecture the farmer
about his speed and in general began to throw his weight around
to try to make the farmer uncomfortable.

Finally, the cop got around to writing out the ticket,
and as he was doing that he kept swatting at some flies
that were buzzing around his head.The farmer said,
“Having some problems with circle flies there, are ya?”
The cop stopped writing the ticket and said
“Well yeah, if that’s what they are– I never heard of circle flies”.
So the farmer says “Well, circle flies are common on farms.
See, they’re called circle flies because
they’re almost always found circling around a horses arse.”
The cop says, “Oh,” and goes back to writing the ticket.
Then after a minute he stops and says,
“Hey…wait a minute, are you trying to call me an arse?”
The farmer says, “Oh no, officer.
I have too much respect for law enforcement and police officers
to even think about calling you a horses arse.”
The cop says “Well, that’s a good thing,” and goes back to writing the ticket.
After a long pause, the farmer says,
” Hard to fool them circle flies though. “
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October 1, 2011 8:00pm
wreck1080

“For most Maori New Zealand justice is unfair, biased and prejudiced, says Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples who has announced a plan to push for a review of the entire system.

In a statement he said the system including, police, courts and corrections “systematically discriminates against Maori”.”

Sharples should look at child abuse within the maori community first. Thats where it all starts. By abuse, I mean mental , physical , and social . There are so many maori parents out there that just don’t seem to care about their kids. It is not a socio economic thing either, as poor asian people don’t seem to have the same attitudes.
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October 1, 2011 8:15pm
mikenmild

Tonga will be looking back sadly at their earlier loss to Canada.

France beat Japan and Canada and go through.

Tonga beat Fance and Japan and miss out.

C’est la vie.
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October 1, 2011 8:19pm
tristanb

“‘Flash mob’ protest blocks Queen St”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10755858&ref=rss

Look at this bunch of pathetic losers, chanting for the All Blacks to lose.

Apparently they got booed at by onlookers – which makes me proud to be a NZer.
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October 1, 2011 8:44pm
Scott Chris

Farmer Nasska and his prize milking buffalo are driving down the road when Pauleastbay pulls him over.
So Paul says to Nasska, “You know it is against the law to ride with a buffalo in the front of your ute, don’t you?”

Nasska replies, “As a matter of fact, I didn’t.”
So Pauleastbay asks Nasska where he heading. “To Fielddays at Mystery Creek.” Says farmer Nasska. So Paul says, “I’ll let you off the hook this time if you promise to take the buffalo to the zoo when you get to Hamilton.”
So Nasska promises he will, and heads off to the show.

Several days later Pauleastbay spots Nasska, again with the Buffalo in the passenger seat, driving down the road, so he pulls him over again.
“I thought I told you to take this buffalo to the zoo when you got to Hamilton!” Exclaims Paul, to which Nasska replies “I did, and we had so much fun, now I’m taking him to the ballet.”
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October 1, 2011 9:25pm
nasska

Three Afro-American ladies are getting ready to take a plane trip for the first time in their life..

The first lady said, ‘I don’t know bout youse but I’m gunna wear me sum hot pink panties before I get on that plane.’

‘Why you gonna wear them for?’ the other two asked.

The first replied, ‘Coz, if that plane goes down and I’m out there laying butt-up in a cornfield, they gonna find me first.’

The second lady said, ‘Well, I’m gonna wear some fluro orange panties.’

‘Why you gonna wear them?’ the others asked.

The second lady answered, ‘Cause if this bloody plane is goin’ down and I be floating butt-up in the sea, they can see me first.’

The third lady says, ‘Well, I’m not gonna wear any panties…..’

‘What? No panties?’ the others asked in disbelief.

The third lady says, ‘That’s right mate, you heards me right. I ain’t wearin’ any panties, ‘coz if any plane goes down they always look for the black box first!
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October 1, 2011 9:30pm
Griff

wreck1080
Violence within a hapu is violence no matter who its perpetrated on. Maori society is violent many studies have come to this conclusion. Someone who identifies as first a maori is around twice as likely to commit or receive violence. Some one of maori blood who identifies as New Zealander first has the same level of violence as the rest of us.

That is why we are trying to revive the culture.
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October 1, 2011 9:47pm

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