General Debate 10 October 2011

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KiwiGreg

All Blacks did NOT make that look like a 97% probable win.
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October 10, 2011 8:01am
Lance

I love this

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10757899

Cath Delahunty couldn’t work with Nats

A vote for the Greens =……………………………………. nothing
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October 10, 2011 8:20am
adze

If Delahunty left that could only move the Greens fractionally further to the centre, assuming those who will be brought in on the list aren’t left wing nut jobs like her.
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October 10, 2011 8:24am
Inventory2

No KiwiGreg, but as we have learned painfully through successive RWC’s, the only thing that counts is who has the highest number on the scoreboard at the end of the match.
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October 10, 2011 8:25am
Scott Chris

Pensioner Arrested After 27 Mile Low Speed Car Chase:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/8810859/Pensioner-led-police-on-27-mile-chase-at-10mph.html

Was finally stopped by a cop running along side the car tapping her window.
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October 10, 2011 8:34am
KiwiGreg

@ adze my gut feel is the further down the greens’ list you go the fruitier they get
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October 10, 2011 8:38am
KiwiGreg

@ I2 I hear you but we’re all shit scared of the ABs choking. That’s why I was rooting for the Springboks on the theory that if we have to lose please dont let the Ozzies win….
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October 10, 2011 8:40am
peterwn

“Ms Delahunty did not return calls” (article Lance cited)
Candidate not returning calls during an election campaign? Never heard anything so daft. Is she scared her idiocy will be even further exposed?

Her overarching objective should be to get as many party votes for Greens as possible – she is not helping her party by criticising its coalition policy although it is pretty wishy-washy anyway.
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October 10, 2011 8:41am
Scott Chris

KiwiGreg – “That’s why I was rooting for the Springboks”

I don’t get it. We’re practically Australian, and they have a Zealandian coach.

If we don’t win it, I hope our Aussi Big Brothers win it.

Could almost mistake you for a Krazykiwi.. 😉
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October 10, 2011 8:53am
joana

Smit and De Villiers true to form..”it was all the refs fault”..Good riddance.
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October 10, 2011 8:53am
Murray

You can piss off and be as Australin as you like. I know my ancestory and nations history and cultutre. Its more than a geographic proximity to somewhere.

I’m a New Zealander.

Coicidently my big brother is actually Australian though.
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October 10, 2011 9:05am
Inventory2

@ Joana; indeed; it’s all a bit Winstonesque, isn’t it, blaming everyone else

In the meantime, there’s a joke here that’s in need of a punchline:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/10/monday-shaggy-dog-story.html
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October 10, 2011 9:06am
Pete George

Delahunty’s threat to resign is not a surprise, the Greens have made it clear they are very very very very unlikely to go into coalition with National, they would rather be ideo-illogical sideliners.

I’ll keep harping on about this though – if someone puts themselves forward as a candidate they should be making a commitment to serve the three year contract.

Just imagine if Labour bomb (probable) and Greens get power hungry at the last minute and go for go for the government option we could end up with a mini-election with a mass of premature self ejaculations.

Ok, it will only be Labour by-elections because the Greens will just keep going down the list until they find someone who doesn’t care as long as they’re there. What if they are all too staunch like Delahunty?
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October 10, 2011 9:09am
Tauhei Notts

An unfortunate choice of phrase.
In his eulogy to the late Allan Hubbard of Timaru the minister said that in his life as a philanthropic accountant he had accrued numerous debits and credits and the credits far outweighed the debits.
Any student of basic double entry bookkeeping will tell you that assets are entered as debits and liabilities are entered as credits.
Yeah, right.
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October 10, 2011 9:09am
nasska

Scott Chris @ 8.34am

In the Wairarapa such speeding by elderly drivers is unheard of….indeed for a driver of advanced years to attain a speed such as 30kph on the open road would result in an editorial in the local paper about dare devil pensioners edging out boy racers as public nuisances.

There was a rumour recently of an elderly gent on a mobility scooter being charged for reckless driving endangering lives….apparently while travelling south between Masterton & Carterton, three times he pulled out into the northbound lane to pass geriatric female drivers.
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October 10, 2011 9:12am
Scott Chris

Murray – “Coincidently my big brother is actually Australian though.”

Aha! That explains it. Little brother syndrome.

It always amazes me how many Kiwis say they are descended from Scot, Irish or Welsh, when most of us came from England.
I’m proud of my English as well as Scottish ancestry, but I feel far more kinship and affinity for the Aussis.

To the rest of the world, we are Aussis anyway.
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October 10, 2011 9:12am
iMP

Tauhei: picky. Just honour Alan Hubbard for his good heart.
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October 10, 2011 9:14am
Pete George

I don’t feel any kinship or affinity for Australia, or England, or Wales.

My kinship and affinity is for Otago and New Zealand.
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October 10, 2011 9:16am
Manolo

What does the Treaty of Waitangi have to do with the 4G spectrum?

Not an opportunity to be missed by greedy Iwi to con the rest of New Zealand if coward, stupid, politicians go along with this absurdity.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/5756408/Maori-leave-4G-cash-on-table
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October 10, 2011 9:16am
kowtow

Isn’t that “Arab Spring” going just swimmingly?

Muslims attacking a university in Tunisia over the veil and Egyptian security forces attacking Christians who want to defend their own rights.
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October 10, 2011 9:19am
Scott Chris

nasska – “mobility scooter being charged for reckless driving endangering”

Lol!

Funny you should mention that. When I was living in Maungaturoto, Old Mrs Esterhausen was the terror of the footpaths.

I was walking through town one day talking to Old Mr Clare, when we heard a beeping noise behind us and a cracked voice shrieking “Out of my way you fuckin’ drongos!”

So when I pointed out to her that this was hardly the “Maungaturoto” way to talk to your neighbours, she intentionally drove her mobility scooter into my shin!

True story.
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October 10, 2011 9:24am
Scott Chris

Pete George – “My kinship and affinity is for Otago and New Zealand.”

In that order? I am a Zealandian first, Aucklander second, Australasian third, World citizen fourth.
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October 10, 2011 9:30am
nasska

Scott Chris

Our geriatrics are definitely becoming more agro! The warnings our parents gave of the effects of sex, drugs & rock’nroll may have been right after all.
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October 10, 2011 9:30am
Pete George

An odd policy…

LABOUR’S INTERFAITH POLICY LAUNCHED WITH A TWEET

Labour announced its ”interfaith dialogue” policy yesterday with very little fanfare. The news came not via a press release, but a tweet from Mangere MP Su’a William Sio. The portfolio has been created ”in recognition of the unprecedented number of faiths and religious beliefs that exist today”, he said. The policy reveals the party will work ”across all government sectors” to protect faiths from ”racism, discrimination, prejudice and injustices.” It also recognises the importance of preserving the heritage of New Zealand Christianity.

How do you preserve something historical? This seems to be more pandering than practical.
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October 10, 2011 9:31am
Pete George

In that order?

I’d put family first – home, home turf, home country.

I feel more at home in Dunedin and Central Otago than I do in Wellington or Auckland. The further away, the less the affinity.

Of course I feel strongly about New Zealand, it’s the only country I belong to, but I’ll proudly promote Dunedin and Otago interests.
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October 10, 2011 9:38am
Other_Andy

@Pete George

“…to protect faiths from ”racism”…”?

Criticising faith could be racist?
Truly Orwellian…….
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October 10, 2011 9:38am
Manolo

Time for the Euro is running out: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bd7d2ed0-f26e-11e0-824e-00144feab49a.html#axzz1aK1JbMGu
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October 10, 2011 10:22am
Lee01

Labour announced its ”interfaith dialogue” policy yesterday with very little fanfare. The news came not via a press release, but a tweet from Mangere MP Su’a William Sio. The portfolio has been created ”in recognition of the unprecedented number of faiths and religious beliefs that exist today”, he said. The policy reveals the party will work ”across all government sectors” to protect faiths from ”racism, discrimination, prejudice and injustices.” It also recognises the importance of preserving the heritage of New Zealand Christianity.

While I agree with the last sentence, I strongly suspect it is dishonest, and I strongly suspect that the previous sentence is about criminalizing criticisms of Islamic Jihadism and Sharia Law.

All the more reason not to vote Muslims into our parliament.
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October 10, 2011 10:24am
tom hunter

Mark Steyn produces another of his great catch phrases in describing the Occupy Wall Street protestors – They’re anarchists for Big Government.

There’s also this great parody Facebook.
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October 10, 2011 10:36am
Scott Chris

Pete George – “I’d put family first – home, home turf, home country.”

Makes it a bit hard to deal with the bigger picture if you prioritize things that way. Perhaps that is our problem as human beings. We are too self interested.
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October 10, 2011 10:41am
Pete George

An interesting comment from David Cunliffe on Q+A yesterday:

Having spent most of the last couple or three weeks telling my caucus colleagues no, they can’t have X, Y, Z because we can’t afford it, I wouldn’t say I’m relaxed. I’m trying, with my caucus colleagues, my front-bench team, my leadership team, to deliver the best possible bang for the buck for New Zealanders, to get the job done, to make sure nobody gets left off the boat and keep fiscal discipline. We will do that.

Curious, but not surprising if Goff is seen internally as a faux leader marking time for post-election.
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October 10, 2011 10:44am
Lee01

I agree with Pete. Family first, then local community, then country.
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October 10, 2011 10:47am
thedavincimode

any room for God in there Lee01?
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October 10, 2011 10:53am
Other_Andy

From the Wall Street Journal

Nearly Half of U.S. Lives in Household Receiving Government Benefit.
Some 46.4% of households will pay no federal income tax this year, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. That’s up from 39.9% in 2007, the year the recession began.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/05/nearly-half-of-households-receive-some-government-benefit/?KEYWORDS=medicaid

I wonder how this compares with New Zealand?
Does anybody know the percentage of NET taxpayers in New Zealand?
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October 10, 2011 10:56am
Pete George

Makes it a bit hard to deal with the bigger picture if you prioritize things that way.

Depends on what your aims are. If everyone immerses themselves in the “big picture” the little things that can be important, and the little people, get forgotten.

I don’t aspire to be PM, Minister of Finance or Minister of Foreign Affairs. I aspire to represent ordinary people in an electorate, and to contribute to wider ranging issues from that perspective.
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October 10, 2011 10:58am
Lee01

@ thedavincimode

any room for God in there Lee01?

Well I assumed that Pete was talking about earthly matters. If I was framing it my own way it would be; God, Crown, Country, Family. 😉
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October 10, 2011 11:12am
Lee01

I wonder of David is going to blog about the Epsom poll result.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5759405/Epsom-poll-dire-news-for-ACT
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October 10, 2011 11:17am
Mick Mac

Lee
While I agree with the last sentence, I strongly suspect it is dishonest, and I strongly suspect that the previous sentence is about criminalizing criticisms of Islamic Jihadism and Sharia Law.

All the more reason not to vote Muslims into our parliament.

Or Labour or Watermelons like Pete George.
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October 10, 2011 11:38am
joana

IV2
You have a very creative mind and I must say a good memory.
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October 10, 2011 12:11pm
Lee01

A very good blog:

Throne, Altar, Liberty: A Protestant Christian, patriotic Canadian, and a reactionary High Tory with a libertarian streak.

The Tory Cause – a mission statement in verse.

To stand for our country, the Crown and the Church
And all the values the leftists besmirch

To honor the Queen not the Ottawa crooks
And revere fine art, music, taste and old books

To ridicule progress of every kind
And reclaim the good that we have left behind

To love the good things God has placed here below
Like small towns, and farms, and the places you know

To stand up for freedom by night and by day
By saying the things that they say you can’t say.

http://thronealtarliberty.blogspot.com/
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October 10, 2011 12:21pm
Lee01

Politically I am a Tory in the original sense of the term – a supporter of the monarchy and the Church. This does not mean I endorse the present Conservative Party. Being a true Tory, I revere royalty, and despise politicians and bureaucrats. As a classical conservative, I believe in an organic rather than a contractual society, regard the family rather than the “individual” as the basic unit of society, and believe in the need for a strong but non-intrusive government. Government should be strong enough to enforce the law and preserve the security of the country. It should not, however, become “big government” which intrudes into the authority of other social institutions such as the Church and family or into people’s personal lives. With regards to government and other social authorities I believe in subsidiarity – that all matters should be handled by the smallest authority competent to handle them. With regards to government and people’s private lives I affirm the “harm principle” – that human laws should basically prohibit actions which are directly harmful to other people and their property.

http://thronealtarliberty.blogspot.com/2011/01/here-i-stand.html
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October 10, 2011 12:39pm
Pete George

National says Yes, Labour says No, Actoids on KB say Sooner and More, UF says something sensible:

UF rules out Kiwibank, Radio NZ and water for asset sales

To this point there has not been a proper national debate beyond National saying yes and Labour saying no.

“We need a conversation that is more detailed and drills down into what New Zealanders really think are acceptable bottom lines,” he said.

“New Zealanders, I believe, are not definitively pro-asset sales, but under certain conditions, it is no longer the bogeyman issue that Labour would have you believe.”

Mr Dunne said UnitedFuture’s role as a support partner is not just to contribute its own policies, but to help keep a government to a reasonable, centrist path.

“UnitedFuture says let’s start with three no-go areas where there would be no asset sales, not now, not ever:

“They are Kiwibank, Radio New Zealand and the supply of water.

(Peter Dunne’s Address to the Rotary Club of Auckland)

I’m sure that won’t please some here but a lot of people will be looking for some protection over rampant asset sales but allowing for a considered approach rather than being a No party of the left.
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October 10, 2011 1:48pm
Manolo

National says Yes, Labour says No, Actoids on KB say Sooner and More, UF says something sensible.

The chameleonic and whorish Dunne will do whatever it takes and will say whatever is required to keep his Ohariu-Belmont seat.

He’s a man at odds with honesty.
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October 10, 2011 1:52pm
thedavincimode

He is also at odds with his hairdresser Manolo.
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October 10, 2011 1:56pm
Manolo

Who is telling porkies here: Smile-and-wave Key or Standard & Poors? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10757922
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October 10, 2011 1:58pm
Scott Chris

Lee – “High Toryism”

High Toryism has been described as neo-feudalist in its preference of a ruling class over democratisation. And you were perturbed by my Shepherd and Sheep analogy Lee?

Thomas Jefferson: “There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents.”

So a combination of Buddhism and Brains……..

Aha! Steve Jobs.
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October 10, 2011 2:03pm
Pete George

He’s a man at odds with honesty.

Manolo – Dunne would have to be one of the straightest and honest MPs over the last few decades, I doubt you can point to actual dishonesty, he just doesn’t do what you want.

He is trusted by Key and National, he was trusted by Clark and Labour, and Shipley and National.
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October 10, 2011 2:13pm
Lee01

@ Scott Chris

High Toryism has been described as neo-feudalist in its preference of a ruling class over democratisation. And you were perturbed by my Shepherd and Sheep analogy Lee?

The Crown and a natural aristocracy are a far cry from the totalitarian statism we have today.

The advocates of this new empowerment of the self identify it with “freedom” but it is not freedom in any but the most superficial sense. The collapse of the cultural, moral, religious, and social core of a society creates a vacuum, and nature, as the old saw says, abhors a vacuum. The hole will be filled by political and economical control. The same decades that have seen the moral and cultural collapse described above, have also seen people’s ordinary, everyday lives become more and more subjected to bureaucratic administration and regulation, as well as the emergence of a new political and economical order carried out on an international rather than a national scale. The new “freedom” of the empowered self from cultural, moral, and religious restraint is only the opiate that blinds it to political and economic domination. Aldous Huxley saw it coming.

Political and economic total control, the collapse of national identity into a new international order, and the collapse of society as a cultural, religious, and moral whole. A “brave new world” it may very well be. A civilization, it is not. This is definitely a period of decline.

http://thronealtarliberty.blogspot.com/
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October 10, 2011 2:16pm
Lee01

The Divine Right of Kings Versus the Tyranny of the People:

http://thronealtarliberty.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-05-09T19%3A04%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=7

Democracy and Freedom are not the same thing.
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October 10, 2011 2:28pm
Scott Chris

Lee – “The Divine Right of Kings”

Kings all had their origins as tribal chiefs, identical to the pre-European hunter gatherer Maori society. This is your natural law at work Lee. Dog eat Dog, or more literally, Man eat Man.

Luckily things have moved on from tyrannical patriarchy.

The King Model is redundant and anachronistic and prone to corruption and inbreeding and overthrow.
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October 10, 2011 2:50pm
Lee01

Scott,

Kings all had their origins as tribal chiefs, identical to the pre-European hunter gatherer Maori society. This is your natural law at work Lee. Dog eat Dog, or more literally, Man eat Man.

The Maori engaged in cannibalism, not European Kings. Its a false comparison. Nor was it “dog eat dog”. Thats a misrepresentation of European history. I’m not saying it was perfect, no society is.

Luckily things have moved on from tyrannical patriarchy.

You live in a tyrannical and totalitarian age the likes of which the world has never seen.

By comparison, the age of Crown rights was a bastion of freedom.
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October 10, 2011 2:54pm
Lee01

The King Model is redundant and anachronisti

Most European states still have them, as do we. How is that “redundant and anachoinistic?

and prone to corruption

All political systems are prone to corruption. Thats beside the point.
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October 10, 2011 2:57pm
Scott Chris

Lee – “Most European states still have them, as do we. How is that “redundant and anachoinistic?”

Because they are depowered and meaningless. They are anachronistic because they no longer function as rulers, but as sentimental relics of an irretrievable past.

“All political systems are prone to corruption. Thats beside the point.”

All power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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October 10, 2011 3:38pm
Lee01

@ Scott Chris

Because they are depowered and meaningless.

They are still constitutionally important. And I’m in favour of giving them more power, though with strict constitutional limits.

We do not need government with the sort of power the modern state has.

but as sentimental relics of an irretrievable past.

They are vestiges of a retrievable past.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The modern liberal state has absolute power, far more so than any King ever did, and they are far more totalitarian than any King ever was.
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October 10, 2011 3:47pm
Scott Chris

So I take it you’d like to have Charles as king with his adulterous wife and his veganism and his environmentalism.

You think God gave him the divine right to rule? Morally suspect monarchs:

King Stephen was corrupt, Mary Tudor was bigoted, and Henry VIII was psychotic and George IV was lazy, while Edward VIII was petulant and juvenile.

Not to mention King John who tried to nick the throne off Richard the Lionheart whilst he was off crusading, and probably worst of all was Edward II, an brutal fuckwit who died after Richard II seized the throne with a red hot poker shoved up his (Edward’s) bum.

And George III was bonkers.
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October 10, 2011 3:59pm
Weihana

# Manolo (4,990) Says:
October 10th, 2011 at 9:16 am

What does the Treaty of Waitangi have to do with the 4G spectrum?

Not an opportunity to be missed by greedy Iwi to con the rest of New Zealand if coward, stupid, politicians go along with this absurdity.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/5756408/Maori-leave-4G-cash-on-table

——————————

While I’m not a legal expert, I would imagine that the relevance of 4G is to do with the principles of the treaty and the idea that sovereignty was exchanged for the protection of rangatiratanga.

While one could observe that there was no such thing as 4G in 1840, I would say this applied to the Crown as much as it did to Maori. No one had 4G, it simply hadn’t been invented of course. On the other hand the electromagnetic spectrum did exist and had always existed despite no one actually knowing about it. By default the Crown gained sovereignty over this spectrum through their rule of the land and so by extension it could be argued that Maori having rangatiratanga over their own land implies some rights to the electromagnetic spectrum as well.

Note I’m not saying I personally agree with this concept. I believe Maori and Pakeha need to work together to resolve and end the grievance process as best we can to the general satisfaction of Maori and Pakeha and to then look at how best to move forward as a nation of individuals rather than a nation divided by race.

However, I don’t think accusations of “greedy Iwi” are helpful towards improving race relations. Given our history it is understandable why Maori support the concept of Tino rangatiratanga.
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October 10, 2011 4:06pm
Lee01

Scott Chris,

Many of our current Parliamentarians are adulterers, vegans and environmentalists, and I’m sure more than a few are bonkers.

I’ll take one morally suspect King/Queen with strict limits on their power over one hundred and twenty morally suspect statists with almost no limits on their power anyday.

My system gives us Charles. Yours gave us Keith Locke.
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October 10, 2011 4:07pm
Lee01

Engrave herosim into your souls, so that you complete your small everyday tasks perfectly: As if the salvation of the world depended on all these small deeds.

Saint Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer
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October 10, 2011 4:10pm
Scott Chris

Lee – “My system gives us Charles. Yours gave us Keith Locke.”

Ahem. Since when is Keith Locke PM? Mind you, he’d still be more competent than affable but feckless Charlie. You’d think God would want to give divine right to someone with a little competence. John Key has arrived in power through the means of social evolution.

To me, that is divine right. Not some pre-ordained fool born into power.
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October 10, 2011 4:20pm
Mick Mac

I’ve been watching thr Wall Street campers and typically they know best.

Mr Cain doesn’t think so and on the face of it, it seems he’s correct.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=353921
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October 10, 2011 4:22pm
Lee01

Mind you, he’d still be more competent than affable but feckless Charlie.

At what? Following in the footsteps of Pol Pot? Inviting the North Koreans to invade?

Majoritarian democracy is tyranny.
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October 10, 2011 4:23pm
Scott Chris

Lee

Strawman alert Lee. Keith Locke ain’t nowhere. He is irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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October 10, 2011 4:27pm
Lee01

But he WAS elected to Parliament right? As have a lot of other far-left nutters.

Just pointing out YOUR strawman regarding bad Kings.

Time to go. Real work to do.
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October 10, 2011 4:29pm
Pete George

It’s a lot different having a few representative nutters in a modern democratic parliament of 120 compared one nutter in sole charge with the power to excecute at will.
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October 10, 2011 4:41pm
Weihana

Lee01 (1,316) Says:
October 10th, 2011 at 4:07 pm

“Many of our current Parliamentarians are adulterers, vegans and environmentalists, and I’m sure more than a few are bonkers.”

Vegans and environmentalists!?! Heavin forbid someone eats veges and cares about the environment! That should be a capital offence! 🙂

“I’ll take one morally suspect King/Queen with strict limits on their power over one hundred and twenty morally suspect statists with almost no limits on their power anyday.”

If you are concerned about rulers who lack limits on their power then I would suggest the US government as a model to consider. There they have a balance of powers between branches of government such that no one branch commands ultimate authority. The Supreme Court can overrule Congress and the President. The President can veto Congress. And Congress can override both the Court and the President if they gather enough support. It’s a model that has lasted over 200 years and during that time the nation has risen to become unquestionably the most powerful and influential nation in the world.

Furthermore, with regards the the British monarchy it is apparent that the monarch is merely a ceremonial figurehead with no real power. In a fight for authority the Queen would lose to the will of Parliament. That is why she is nothing more than a figurehead because these battles have been fought before. So essentially you do have a group of parliamentarians which can do as they like within the bounds of what the electorate will tolerate.
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October 10, 2011 5:50pm
plebe

Maybe the All Blacks should practice sex, and then their pathetic groins might stand up to the strains of movements like running,and kicking and having sex.BLOODY WHIMPS,remember another 4 more years,we wont
Are there any old fart EX hard men all blacks who can install back bones and tough groins into our prima donna, highly paid blacks,No i dont think so
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October 10, 2011 6:16pm
Lee01

Weihana,

Vegans and environmentalists!?! Heavin forbid someone eats veges and cares about the environment! That should be a capital offence!

If you read the earlier posts in this discussion you will see I was responding to Scott’s post about Prince Charles, not making a general comment about vegans and environmentalists.

If you are concerned about rulers who lack limits on their power then I would suggest the US government as a model to consider.

The US system as it was originally concieved was fine, but it has descended into majoritarian democracy and universal suffrage, and hence is has the same problems as every other democracy.

Furthermore, with regards the the British monarchy it is apparent that the monarch is merely a ceremonial figurehead with no real power.

The answer to that is to increase the power of the Crown and decrease, or abolish, Parliament.

Pete,

It’s a lot different having a few representative nutters in a modern democratic parliament of 120 compared one nutter in sole charge with the power to excecute at will.

A constitutionally limted monarchy would not have the power to execute at will. One person, with powers limited to national defense, is far better than 120 with the power to interfere in every aspect of human life.
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October 10, 2011 6:30pm
plebe

Should we discuss oil on the Mount beaches??in the future we will like the latest stuff up to Pike river, and we will say why the hell didnt national do anything of meaning.
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October 10, 2011 6:34pm
leftyliberal

Lee01: Perhaps there’s a compromise? Perhaps a constitutionally limited 120 that are democratically elected?

That way if one of the leaders is a complete idiot, you at least have 119 others to attempt to balance that out a bit.
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October 10, 2011 7:22pm
nasska

A group of friends went deer stalking and paired off in twos for the day.

That night, one of the hunters returned alone, staggering under the
weight of an eight-point stag.

“Where’s Phil?”

“Phil had a nasty fall and broke both of his legs. He’s a couple of
miles back up the track.”

“You left Phil laying out there and carried the deer back!?!”

“A tough call,” nodded the hunter, “but I figured no one is going to
steal Phil!”
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October 10, 2011 8:00pm
tristanb

Should we discuss oil on the Mount beaches??in the future we will like the latest stuff up to Pike river, and we will say why the hell didnt national do anything of meaning.

The traditional way to do it is to wait a little while, and see how it plays out. When mistakes are inevitably made and unforeseeable problems arise, then we can comment with the benefit of hindsight about how we would have done things better.

But yeah, maybe NZ has more trained mine rescue armchair-experts than maritime disaster oil salvage armchair-experts.
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October 10, 2011 8:32pm
Scott Chris

Andrew Hoare and John Banks had been out clubbing baby seals, but happened to shoot a deer on the way home and were dragging it back to their car. They happened to run into Weihana, who’d been out doing a bit of volunteer conservation work.

“Hey, I don’t want to sound like a know-it-all,” said Weihana, “but I can tell you that it’s much easier if you drag the deer in the other direction. Then the antlers won’t dig into the ground.”

So Andrew and John decided to try it.

A little while later Andrew Hoare said to John Banks, “You know, that guy was right. This is a lot easier!”

“Yeah, but now we’re getting further away from the truck,” said John Banks.
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October 10, 2011 8:36pm
joana

Key on TV tonight. I have never seen such an inept liar…so he lied in parliament but his performance when being questioned by reporters was appalling. What a lightweight. He is way out of his depth. I have never ever seen a NZ Prime Minister so lost for words. Muldoon , Lange , Aunty Helen would all have has something to say…Astonishing , truly astonishing.
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October 10, 2011 8:44pm
nasska

Epsom’s Picnic –

If you’re going to vote today, you’re in for a big surprise
If you’re going down to vote today, you’ll never believe your eyes
Cos John Banks’ campaign is starting to suck
And Water Woman is counting her luck
Today’s the day the Jafas have their election.
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October 10, 2011 8:52pm
big bruv

joana

Tell me, I missed your comment when Goff was caught red handed telling porkies about the SIbriefingng.

However, no need to worry, Key and the Nat’s are going to shit in, your lot will be in opposition for at least another six years.
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October 10, 2011 9:13pm
reid

If a white person did this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5762354/Woman-admits-racist-attacks-using-dogs

Do you think it would be in more than the crime pages?
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October 10, 2011 9:32pm
Scott Chris

Paul Henry was out for a jog one day when he was confronted by a mean looking dog.
An Indian bloke was sitting on a nearby park bench. “Hey Dickshit,” said Paul, “does your dog bite?”
The Indian guy replied, “No Sir, my dog does not bite.”
So Paul Henry carried on jogging.
The dog ran over snarling and growling and bit him on the bum.
Paul Henry yelled, “You stupid curry muncher. I thought you said your dog didn’t bite!”
The Indian replied, “It’s not my dog Sir.”
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October 10, 2011 9:52pm
tristanb

If a white person did this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5762354/Woman-admits-racist-attacks-using-dogs

Do you think it would be in more than the crime pages?

Not saying you’re wrong, but how do you know she’s not white? She’s Phillipa Ann Parker and is at an age where if she was Maori she’d likely have a Maori name or middle name. Her partner in crime Steven Donaldson also sounds pretty white.

Christchurch is full of loser pathetic skinheads who like to blame others for their shit lives. Not that it’s Christchurch’s fault, our government should be responsible for this type of law and order.

Anyway, whatever her skin colour, what a piece of shit. I hope the judge doesn’t give her a non-custodial sentence, and I’m not sure why he needs the police to decide that the dogs should be destroyed (it’s pretty obvious they should be).
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October 10, 2011 10:08pm
RightNow

If I was a lefty this would be a dilemma – would I prefer National to lose ground, or gain it if it meant the death of ACT?
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October 10, 2011 10:20pm
Manolo

Jimmy Carter: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/aimless_obama_walks_alone_OUgoMTkORRJioLl7B6ZYmN
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October 11, 2011 6:12am
Pete George

If I was a lefty this would be a dilemma – would I prefer National to lose ground, or gain it if it meant the death of ACT?

No dilemma, keep National in check and leave Act to whatever – voting United Future is the sensible safe option.
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October 11, 2011 6:45am
Weihana

Lee01,

“The US system as it was originally concieved was fine, but it has descended into majoritarian democracy and universal suffrage, and hence is has the same problems as every other democracy.”

Universal suffrage? Those damn women and black people thinking they should vote eh?

But in actuality the basic framework has remained pretty much the same with the different branches being able to balance each other out. Indeed the SCOTUS still strikes out legislation passed by congress as unconstitutional so you are wrong to say it’s a simple “majoritarian” system.

Although one of the more significant changes has been the considerable increase in the power of the presidency during the 20th century.

“Furthermore, with regards the the British monarchy it is apparent that the monarch is merely a ceremonial figurehead with no real power.”

“The answer to that is to increase the power of the Crown and decrease, or abolish, Parliament.”

Ah, so when you said you favoured a monarchy with strict limits on power you actually meant no such thing. You meant anything up to and including a monarch with complete and absolute authority unencumbered by Parliament.

But your basic problem remains that the people don’t want this and these battles have been fought before and the monarchy lost. You know what happened to Charles the 1st.
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October 11, 2011 11:29am
Lee01

@ Weihana

But in actuality the basic framework has remained pretty much the same with the different branches being able to balance each other out.

The reality however is that the size, power and scope of the Federal government has grown way beyond what the Founding Fathers intended. Out of control government spending and debt have brought the country to its knees economically.

Ah, so when you said you favoured a monarchy with strict limits on power you actually meant no such thing.

No, I meant exactly that. There are only two things a government should and must do, and only two things it is ethically allowed to do, national defense, and law and order. The Military, the Police and the Courts. Thats it.

A constitutionally limited Monarchy can, with a few appointed ministers, do that job. There is not need for any democracy or voting, no need for a Parliament.

Legitimate government has one and only one purpose. To defend people and their property. That does not require a vast state bureaucracy, 120 MP’s, numerous government departments, or any of the other tools of totalitarian statism.

But your basic problem remains that the people don’t want this

People did not want the anti-smacking law either.

The times are changing.
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October 11, 2011 11:40am

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