General Debate 21 September 2011

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Scott Chris

Lee – “Whats the difference between moving and revolving”

Moving is defined as spacial relocation in *any* geometric mode.

Revolving is defined as spacial relocation in a *specific* geometric mode.
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September 21, 2011 4:57pm
Lee01

“Even so, the Documentary channel remains my primary research tool.”

Thats just scary. 🙁
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September 21, 2011 4:57pm
Pete George

Once you *assume* you exist, how can you prove that everything you see isn’t just a computer simulation of reality?

Or a unique concoction of your own brain?
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September 21, 2011 4:59pm
thedavincimode

Lee01.

Scary it may be Lee, but I look at it as being able to type with my thumb.
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September 21, 2011 5:04pm
Chthoniid

Please note that ‘to prove’ something has many meanings beyond that used by philosophers of logic.
In a formal sense, it applies to logical statements (often rendered in mathematical symbolic language).

In a less formal sense, it means simply producing sufficient evidence of a claim that it would be perverse the reject the veracity of it.

It’s tiresome wading through a pointless exchanges on what proof is when one party refuses to recognise the context in which it is used.
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September 21, 2011 5:09pm
Mick Mac

Lee01 (803) Says:
September 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm

I sure hope a decent Republican gets in next time as the day after he takes power he can cancel the Palestinian aid at the end of the following month.
They can be instructed that when they behave like a proper state, ie stop violence towards their neighbours, look after their people, apply the rule of law fairly and impartially then they can reapply for aid like any other country that qualifies.

If freedom and liberty actually means something then the democratic states should judge and deliver aid (if they choose) based on it’s adherence surely?
Personally I think there’s so many people hurting in the USA at the moment I wouldn’t begrudging them halving all aid next month to everyone and canceling all aid in three months for states and territories that don’t adhere to decent morals towards their people and neighbours.
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September 21, 2011 5:10pm
Mick Mac

Yeah I know what you mean Chthoniid!
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September 21, 2011 5:11pm
Scott Chris

Jack – “How about a BA/Th?”

Thanks, but I think I’d prefer a SH/OWEr.
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September 21, 2011 5:19pm
Scott Chris

PG – “Or a unique concoction of your own brain?”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism
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September 21, 2011 5:21pm
chiz

Lee01:Regardles of their capablilities, I doubt that they matched 125,000 a day. Can you prove they did?

There weren’t anywhere near as many people living back then as there are now so this comparison is vacuous. You need to scale the number down by quite a bit and compare, say, on a per capita basis.
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September 21, 2011 5:24pm
chiz

More background here on the scientists being put on trial in Italy:
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September 21, 2011 5:25pm
calendar girl

As TDVM indicated above, Justin Vaughan has stepped down as CEO of NZ Cricket for personal / family reasons. He took over from Martin Sneddon over four years ago.

In my view, Vaughan has been rather disappointing in the role, despite a number of achievements highlighted by his Chairman. Vaughan’s recent success in finally securing John Wright to coach the national team is cause for hope, but overall the sport in this country has lacked the kind of success-oriented leadership that one should associate with NZ’s stature and history in the game.

Evidence of on-the-field performance mediocrity is there for all to see in current national rankings: NZ 8th-ranked in Tests and 9th-ranked in ODIs. We must be able to do better than that.
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September 21, 2011 5:57pm
Pete George

There’s more to NZ Cricket than the CEO, particularly the coaches and players, but Vaughan must wear some of the responsibility for what without doubt has been an extended period of medocrity punctuated by disappointments.
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September 21, 2011 6:17pm
tom hunter

If so-called MSM hadn’t abrogated its hitherto traditional role….

I could not agree more – though I think your implication that there once was a time when the media was not like this may not be as solid as you think – and I have two examples about events I thought I knew well but have since learned more about since moving to the dark side in the last decade.

First, when JFK was shot the then mainstream media played up the idea that this was a result of the hotbed of extremism against Democrats that was Dallas in 1963, with none other than prime asshole Dan Rather taking a leading role in pushing those rumours. The result was that a number of GOP representatives received death threats and effectively went into hiding until things cooled down. Quite amazing when you consider that the shooter was weird ex-Marine who so loved Marxism that he’d moved to the USSR. And of course his coverage set Dan on the road to greater things rather than setting him back as a partisan bullshit artist.

Second. In 1964 a magazine got involved with a nationwide “poll” that they ran with psychiatrists that concluded (merely on the basis of his writings rather than any face-to-face stuff) Goldwater was unfit to be president, being “emotionally unstable,” “immature,” “cowardly,” “grossly psychotic,” “paranoid,” “mass murderer,” “amoral and immoral,” “chronic schizophrenic” and “dangerous lunatic.”

There is actually a third one, where that kindly old FDR, campaigning in 1944, warned of the need to vote Democratic so that certain – ahem – facistic trends would not take root at home even as they were defeated overseas. Nice. Not a lot of critical, analytical coverage of that in the MSM of the day.

In any case, it would be fair to say that Stewart contributes to this even as he supposedly combats it with humour – which is one of the main points of the article. Similarly if you look at the quote above regarding his audience it’s clear that that’s what they want, even as they deride “the sheeple” for accepting the degrading of the MSM and latching on to Fox News.

thedvm – … and plumped for the once over lightly and easy to lap up packaged and sensationalised sound-bite,
Chris Scott – People rail aginst the superficial massmedia, but its a freakin idol built in our image

Indeed – It must feel so unfair to find stuff you don’t like broadcast or published more widely than the stuff you do like. – being a prime example.
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September 21, 2011 6:22pm
mikenmild

Well, by and large people get the media that they want. We can laugh at some – like One News yesterday googling a Law Commission report on search and surveillance as if that made it heir own journalistic discovery. We can scorn others – like the Dominion Post headlining a letter from Caritas as ‘Catholic lobby group enters politics. We can appreciate some media that we enjoy. Luckily today there’s more choice than ever.
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September 21, 2011 6:30pm
thedavincimode

Tom

At least you got variety. We got Paul Holmes. Say no more. The country was awash with cats stuck in trees and rats leaping out of toilets. With all those dramas about, it become very difficult to just go about one’s business, let lone enter have public discourse on economic and social matters of lesser import.
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September 21, 2011 6:32pm
reid

Luckily today there’s more choice than ever.

The point is mm the MSM long ago abrogated their duty as journalists which is to print facts without spin and let people decide for themselves. They long ago stopped doing that in favour of putting their own, often trite and incorrect, opinion into both what they tell people about in the first place and also how they tell the story when they deign their readers have a right to know.

The kindest interpretation of this phenomena which happens in all MSM channels is they do it because they want to increase circulation hence advertising revenue, by giving people what they want, like Sport, instead of what they need, such as an in-depth analysis of who is behind the Libyan rebels.

If this was all that ever happened one could just shake one’s head at the stupidity of human kind and the downside of the capitalist model which aims at the lowest-common-denominator since it cares about numbers, not quality.

Unfortunately I happen to think there is much much more than money to this 24/7/365 tsunamai of human verbal and visual excrement. I personally think journalists like shaping public opinion and a lot of it happens for this reason and not to make money. Such as the slants you get on RNZ National.

I just wish the govt would make the journos in all its state-owned media assets, return to their sacred duty as journalists, put the facts only repeat only, no opinion and let the people decide. No more cute propaganda in the way a headline is worded, no more stacking the schedule with show after show all pushing the same perspective.

That would be good. It’s about time. Why the fuck should we pay a single cent for the propaganda bullshit pushed on us by TVNZ and RNZ?
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September 21, 2011 6:45pm
nasska

Dates with different women………

AMERICAN WOMEN:

First Date:
You get to kiss her goodnight.

Second Date:
You get to grope all over and make out a bit.

Third Date:
You get to have sex but only when She wants to and only in the missionary position.
_____________________________

IRISH WOMEN:

First Date:
You both get blind drunk and have sex.

Second Date:
You both get blind drunk and have sex.

20th Anniversary:
You both get blind drunk and have sex.
_____________________________________

ITALIAN WOMEN:

First Date:
You take her to a play and an expensive restaurant.

Second Date:
You meet her parents and her Mom makes spaghetti & meatballs.

Third Date:
You have sex, she wants to marry you & insists on a 3-carat ring.

5th Anniversary:
You already have 5 kids together & hate the thought of having sex.

6th Anniversary:
You find yourself a Mistress.
__________________________________________
JEWISH WOMEN:

First Date:
You will have to spend all your money to impress her.

Second Date:
You will take a loan to keep the image.

Third Date :
You are broke, she finds someone wealthier.
______________________________________________

ASIAN WOMEN:

First Date:
You get to buy her an expensive dinner but nothing happens.

Second Date:
You buy her an even more expensive dinner. Again, nothing happens.

Third Date:
You don’t even get to the third date and you’ve already realized nothing is ever going to happen.
____________________________________

INDIAN WOMEN:

First Date:
Date is arranged by her parents.

Second Date:
Wedding date is set.

Third Date:
Wedding night.
________________________________________

MEXICAN WOMEN:

First Date:
You buy her an expensive dinner, get drunk on Tequila, and have sex in the back of her car.

Second Date:
She’s pregnant.

Third Date:
She moves in. One week later, her mother, father, her two sisters, her brother,
All of their kids, her grandma, her sister’s boyfriend and his three kids move in
And you live on rice and beans for the rest of your life in your home that used to be nice,
But now looks like a home along the Tijuana strip.
_____________________________________________

ARAB WOMEN:

First Date:
Mother, Father, Brothers, Sisters, Cousins, Aunts, Uncles, Friends and entire Arab community finds out.

Second Date:
You are shot dead. She is beheaded by her father for bringing shame to her family and the Arab community.

No Third Date!!
______________________________________

The POINT?
DON’T YOU JUST LOVE IRISH WOMEN?
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September 21, 2011 7:00pm
mikenmild

reid

You are making the assumption that the ‘mainstream’ media (or any journalist) ever printed facts without spin.
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September 21, 2011 7:04pm
tom hunter

rats leaping out of toilets

Really? Bloody hell. I had no idea it got that bad. I watched the very first Holmes show that “put him on the map”; the famous interview with Dennis Connor that resulted in Connor walking out.

Okay I said to myself, not exactly Gallery, this is probably how the rest is going to go, and never watched another one, which was also enabled by me departing for the US.

I feel no loss!
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September 21, 2011 7:05pm
Scott Chris

If your mother-in-law and a lawyer were drowning and you had to choose, would you go to lunch or to a movie?

A best man’s speech should be like a mini-skirt: short enough to be interesting, but long enough to cover the bare essentials.

A classified ad which read “Wife Wanted” received hundreds of responses, all from men saying “You can have mine.”

A gentleman is one who never swears at his wife while ladies are present.

A man needs a mistress, just to break the monogamy.

A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend. A successful woman is one who can find such a man.

A toast to the newlyweds: May your only ups and downs be between the sheets.

A woman was telling her friend, “It is I who made my husband a millionaire.” The friend asked, “And what was he before you married him?” The woman replied, “A multi-millionaire.”

After a quarrel, a wife said to her husband, “You know, I was a fool when I married you.” The husband replied, “Yes, dear, but I was in love and didn’t notice.”

Always talk to your wife while you’re making love… if there’s a phone handy.

As she hears the wedding march, three things are foremost in a bride’s mind: aisle, altar, hymn. [I’ll alter him!]

Bachelor: A guy who believes in life, liberty, and the happiness of pursuit.

Eighty percent of married men cheat in America. The rest cheat in Europe.

I married Miss Right. I just didn’t know her first name was Always.

I never knew what real happiness was until I got married… and then it was too late.

I’m an excellent housekeeper. Every time I get a divorce, I keep the house.

It doesn’t matter how often a husband changes his job; he still ends up with the same boss.

It’s a give-and-take marriage. He gives and she takes.

Man is incomplete until he is married. After that he is finished.

Man: Rules the roost. Woman: Rules the rooster.

Marriage is bliss. Ignorance is bliss. Ergo….
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September 21, 2011 7:16pm
reid

You are making the assumption that the ‘mainstream’ media (or any journalist) ever printed facts without spin.

Slightly idealistic I know mm and before around 1980 I wasn’t really paying enough attention, but I did notice a real decline beginning in the mid-80’s which continued apace to almost ridiculous levels in the 90’s, noughties and up to today. The whole Di obsession was an archtype.

I recall when the Herald first reduced the Business section and increased the Sport section, that was my first indication that mentalness had set in for the winter, and unfortunately hasn’t yet left us to this day.

The fact it occurred simultaneously overseas would indicate purely a capitalist motive but when you look at people like Murdoch one recognises other forces also at play and no reason to think otherwise here, too. Sure, still capitalism at play but power corrupts and money is power, interchangeably. How many millions did Murdoch interests give say: Thatcher and Blair?

Hope those interested in this general topic have noticed this new book on Murdoch by someone extremely well informed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/sep/18/harold-evans-rupert-murdoch-leadership
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September 21, 2011 7:22pm
nasska

For some time the competence of the Labour Electorate Committee for Hutt South had been in doubt.
It was decided to engage a consulting psychiatrist to get to the bottom of the problem. The doctor asks the Chairman of the Committee,
“What is three times three ?”
“274,” is his reply.
The doctor rolls his eyes and looks up at the ceiling,
and asks the second man, “It’s your turn. What is
three times three ?”
“Tuesday,” replies the second man.
The doctor shakes his head sadly, then asks the third committee
man, “Okay, your turn. What’s three times three ?”
“Nine,” says the third man.
“That’s great!” says the doctor. “How did you get
that?”
“Simple,” he says, “Just subtract 274 from Tuesday.”
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September 21, 2011 7:31pm
Scott Chris

THE MARRIAGE FAIRY

A couple had been married for 25 years and was celebrating the husband’s 60th birthday.

During the party, a fairy appeared and said that because they had been such a loving couple all those years, she would give them one wish each.

The wife said, “We’ve been so poor all these years, and I’ve never gotten to see the world. I wish we could travel all over the world.” The fairy waved her wand and POOF! She had the tickets in her hand.

Next, it was the husband’s turn. He paused for a moment, and then said, “Well, I’d like to be married to a woman 30 years younger than me.”

The fairy waved her wand and POOF! He was 90.
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September 21, 2011 7:37pm
wat dabney

Too good not to share.

Warming alarmist site, deliberately misnamed as “Skeptical Science”, caught rewriting history.

http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/9/20/cooking-the-books.html
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September 21, 2011 7:41pm
nasska

A lady took her friend to get her car from the mechanic.
When her friend came out she asked her, “Is everything
okay with your car now?”

Her friend said, “Yes, thank goodness. I was worried that
the mechanic might try to take advantage of me, so I was
relieved when he told me all I needed was twenty dollars
worth of blinker fluid and an exhaust alignment.”
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September 21, 2011 8:00pm
tom hunter

We can laugh at some – like One News yesterday googling a Law Commission report on search and surveillance as if that made it heir own journalistic discovery

I just had a quick shifty at The Dim Post and observed that even our most extreme class-warfare brethren, Sanctuary (aka Tom S, aka Tom Semmens) was also breathing fire on the same subject:

Our intrepid reporter on TV One had apparently never heard of the 2007 Law Commission report, uncovering this hitherto unknown document after only a “quick Google”.

This acts as confirmation that the so-called journalists (“I’m a journalist! There was nothing on Kiwiblog so I showed I can use Google before the 6pm news!”) reporting for the most watched news on our main state TV broadcaster is an ignorant shithouse several levels of stupid below even the humble commenters here.

This is great. Left and Right, as well as mikenmild and all other wearers of comfortable shoes agree that TVNZ is useless.

So, we can privatise them after all.

The spirit of bipartisanship is alive. Excellent!

Excellent
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September 21, 2011 8:14pm
Griff

Once, a gay man went to heaven. At the Great Gate, Saint Peter was waiting for him. After reviewing his records Saint Pete decided to let him in. “Follow me” he said, opening the gate and walking in.

After some walk, Saint Pete’s keys accidentally fell on the ground. Unaware, he bent over to pick up the keys. That was something the gay man just couldn’t resist, so he jumped on him and did his thing.
Saint Pete was furious.
“If you do that again, You’ll go straight to hell! But follow me, we’re almost there.”

After some more walk, Pete dropped his keys again, and again, the gay man jumped on him. Saint Pete was even more furious than before, but decided to give the gay guy one last chance.

Again they walk and for the third time Pete drops his keys, so he bends over and picks them up. The gay guy, having no self control jumps on him. Pete is now fed up and sends the gay guy straight to hell.

A few weeks later, Saint Pete goes down to hell for his routine inspection, but this time something is wrong, it is freezing, no fire, no lava and in one corner, he finds the devil lying under a stack of blankets freezing his ass of.
“Why is it so god damn cold down here? “Pete asks.
“Well you just try bending down for firewood!!” The devil replied.
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September 21, 2011 8:19pm
mikenmild

TVNZ is useless – sell it, if anyone would buy it.
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September 21, 2011 8:21pm
nasska

The nun teaching Sunday school was speaking to her class one morning and she asked the question,
‘When you die and go to Heaven, which part of your body goes first?’
Suzy raised her hand and said, ‘I think it’s your hands.’
‘Why do you think it’s your hands, Suzy?’
Suzy replied, ‘Because when you pray, you hold your hands together in front of you and God just takes your hands first.’
‘What a wonderful answer!’ the nun said.
Little Johnny raised his hand and said, ‘Sister, I reckon it’s your legs.’
The nun looked at him with the strangest look on her face. ‘Now, Little Johnny, why do you think it would be your legs?’
Little Johnny said, ‘Well, I walked into mummy and daddy’s bedroom the other night.
Mummy had her legs straight up in the air and she was saying, ‘Oh God, I’m coming, I’m coming!!!’
If Dad hadn’t pinned her down, we would have lost her.’
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September 21, 2011 8:36pm
reid

TVNZ is useless – sell it, if anyone would buy it.

Lots would buy it I think mm. But why sell it when you own a TV station and you’re a politician?
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September 21, 2011 8:47pm
tom hunter

TVNZ is useless – sell it, if anyone would buy it

Sadly I think the last is true, but then I thought that just a few years ago when I wrote this:

They’re doomed and they probably know it now. They will increasingly be dependent on government revenue for their survival and know that at some stage they might simply be shut down by a future right-wing government as yet another useless government department. After all – how many right-wingers can honestly say that they see much of their values reflected in what is shown.

Forget privatisation, that train left the station a long time ago even if National had the appetite for it. TV1 and TV2 just really are not worth selling. At some future stage their ‘market’ value might drop to the point that somebody would risk picking them up – but that will be someway down the line and by the time any future government realises, probably no price will reflect how useless they are.

In 1999 they were worth something, maybe NZ$ 1 billion? But no, we can’t do any more of that nasty privatisation stuff on the bones of the good old NZBC. We’ll write a charter instead, after lots of consultation with all sorts, and we’ll let Boo Boo run it because she just oozes managerial competence.

Idiots.
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September 21, 2011 9:13pm
reid

Idiots.

No. They’re malice aforethought real evil, tom. They have to be, to have done what they did. No normal person could even contemplate let alone carry out the actions they did in fact carry out, unless they were either profoundly stupid or profoundly evil. Now which of those does one choose to believe Hulun’s ~~Mob~~ ~~Homos~~ ~~Heros~~ Heroines actually were?
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September 21, 2011 9:36pm
bereal

Hey, my name is jack -off . MNIJ.
When you reply to a comment with, “that reveals your pig shit ignorance.”
Even a cretin such as you must eventually come to realise that YOU are
the pig shit ignorant one.

Actually a piece of pig shit ignorance.

i was going to point out that your mother would be proud of you but
that would be a waste. She probably IS proud of you.
Shit begats shit.
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September 21, 2011 10:56pm
bereal

i think it was nasska that first put up this joke.
i had to laugh out loud.
if u didnt hear it…………

Bloke goes into the bedroom with a sheep under his arm,
Says, Darling, this is the pig I have to fuck when you have a headache.
Wife says, You might want to know, that is a sheep you idiot.
Bloke says, You might want to know I wasnt talking to you.

Thank you nasska.
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September 21, 2011 11:06pm
DavidR

Nice to see that bereal went off to bed with a smile on her face – she’s found someone else to hate. (Pity Penny the Waterwoman is not around any more, they’d make a great double act.)

Bereal, my mother always told me that when you point the finger at someone, there’s three fingers pointing back at you – guess your mother never told you that. Has the sheep got a name, or is it just called Darling?
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September 22, 2011 6:09am
Viking2

Just for those that go to bed with a shitty liver or get up with a shitty attitude.

HOPE THIS MAKES YOU SMILE
THE MOST FUNCTIONAL ENGLISH WORD

Well, it’s shit … that’s right, shit!
Shit may just be the most functional word in the English language.

You can smoke shit, buy shit, sell shit, lose shit, find shit, forget shit and tell others to eat shit.

Some people know their shit, while others can’t tell the difference between shit and brasso.

There are lucky shits, dumb shits and crazy shits. There is bull shit, horse shit and chicken shit.

You can throw shit, sling shit, catch shit, shoot the shit,(or duck when the shit hits the fan).

You can give a shit or serve shit on a shingle.

You can find yourself in deep shit or be happier than a pig in shit.

Some days are colder than shit, some days are hotter than shit and some days are just plain shitty.

Some music sounds like shit, things can look like shit and there are times when you feel like shit.

You can have too much shit, not enough shit, the right shit, the wrong shit or a lot of weird shit.

You can carry shit, have a mountain of shit, or find yourself up shit creek without a paddle.

Sometimes everything you touch turns to shit and other times you fall in a bucket of shit and come out smelling like a rose.

When you stop to consider all the facts, it’s the basic building block of the English language.

And remember, once you know your shit, you don’t need to know anything else!!

You could pass this along, if you give a shit; or not do so if you don’t give a shit!

Well, Shit, it’s time for me to go. Just wanted you to know that I do give a shit and hope you had a nice day, without any shit. But, if you happened to catch a load of shit from some shit-head……….

Well, Shit Happens!!!
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September 22, 2011 6:52am
Viking2

Well the stupidity of politicians and Laws and unintended consequences and Attacks on Freedom of Speech.

Mock election advert draws law fire
By Audrey Young
5:30 AM Thursday Sep 22, 2011

Matthew Ridge says the billboard is tongue-in-cheek but he wouldn’t vote for Labour anyway.

Former rugby and rugby league star Matthew Ridge could face prosecution and a fine of up to $10,000 for advertising his Greenlane car wash company with a mock election advertisement.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10753488
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September 22, 2011 6:54am
graham

Yeah, I saw that.

I’ve got no time for Matthew Ridge, I think he’s a plonker, but this … is dumb. Who’s going to mistake it for an election ad?

Be interesting to see if Labour actually get a sense of humour and recognise it for what it is, or if they start getting all huffy.
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September 22, 2011 7:25am
Manolo

The more things change, the more they remain the same: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/morning-jay-mondale-2012_593981.html
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September 22, 2011 7:27am
Elaycee

@viking2 / graham – isn’t it pathetic?

Its patently obvious that its a well positioned advert for Ridge’s Car-Fe business – albeit containing a play on words.

Some morons just don’t have any sense of humour. 🙁
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September 22, 2011 8:18am

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