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September 17, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 September 2011

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General Debate

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reid

There is nothing in the universe that suggests a designer.

No chiz, only the scientific fact that the evidence of G-d’s existence is everywhere. Primarily because the series of coincidences in nature that had to happen to bring us to here and now is so scientifically improbable as to make the improbability drive on the Hitchhiker’s Guide seem like a child’s toy. Now you can believe that somehow magically this all came about by mere coincidence but if you do then you must appreciate how mad your position appears, given the improbability that you are right and science is wrong.

One of New Zealand’s premier experts in low-temperature superconductivity used to worship in my parish and he agrees with me, the odds all this came about by mere chance are he says, absolutely astronomical. Now this is a Christian scientist saying this MNIJ. Someone so highly scientifically inclined he makes his career in a physics/engineering discipline like that. You might want to reflect on the fact that millions of brilliant minds over the centuries have been religious people and that possibly they are right and you are wrong.

Why did you have to go and ruin the thread?

dvm, how so?
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September 17, 2011 4:54pm
MyNameIsJack

Religion costs the average American family $1000.00 a year. That’show much extra tax they must pay to support the bludging religious who demand all the protections of the state but refuse to contribute to the cost.

The economic impact on taxpayers is substantial when considering that when churches avoid paying tax, the cost of maintaining roads, police and fire protection, and schools must be made up by everyone else. When the community picks up the tab for a church’s drain on the community, it is a subsidy and in violation of the separation of church and state. It has been estimated that when church and clergy tax-exemptions are taken into account, the average family may pay up to $1,000 in extra taxes every year to make up for the lost revenue because of the church’s tax exemption and it includes sales taxes, inheritance taxes, income taxes, and personal taxes. It is bad enough conservative Christians are supporting Republicans’ agenda, but it is an outrage that the public has to fund their anti-American advocacy. Americans should not be forced to fund conservative’s agendas that will eventually lead to a theocracy, and yet, some of the groups that support maintaining tax-exempt status for churches are stunning.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/hidden-church-tax

I think this is what Lee01 has in mind for us.

I wonder what the equivalent figure in NZ is?
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September 17, 2011 4:57pm
thedavincimode

reid

Because he hasn’t worked that out yet, and likely wouldn’t have if you hadn’t pointed it out.

But then, there’s always the prospect that he won’t take any notice.
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September 17, 2011 4:58pm
thedavincimode

“I wonder what the equivalent figure in NZ is?”

Very good question at last Jack. Care to go and research the answer and report back in … say … a couple of years?
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September 17, 2011 5:02pm
reid

But then, there’s always the prospect that he won’t take any notice.

Well, let’s hope so dvm. It’s rather fun, isn’t it, despite what I said above re: wat, Jack is rather more playful.

He’s like a little seal. Arf arf.
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September 17, 2011 5:03pm
wat dabney

Don,

“There is no empirical proof of the existence of God – or a higher being – in the same way that there is no proof for the non-existence of God, or a higher being.”

So, the evidence for your deity is the same as the evidence for Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Agreed.

I’ll precis your subsequent contribution as “stuff we can’t yet explain must be magic.”

More than that: “stuff we can’t yet explain I shall take as evidence for the existence of the the goddess Isis”

Knock yourself out mate.
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September 17, 2011 5:06pm
thedavincimode

reid

chuck him another sardine
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September 17, 2011 5:07pm
MyNameIsJack

reid (8,382) Says:

September 17th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
There is nothing in the universe that suggests a designer.

No chiz, only the scientific fact that the evidence of G-d’s existence is everywhere. Primarily because the series of coincidences in nature that had to happen to bring us to here and now is so scientifically improbable

Being improbable is not the same as being impossible. In fact, being improbable means it is possible. And here we are, as improbable as it may seem.

Any god that created this universe would be a pretty lame god by any standard. First, more than 90% of all species that have ever lived are now extinct. That’s a heck of a lot of trial and error for the omnipotent one, don’t you think?

Man is supposedly made on god’s image, again a lousy design. Genitals exposed to injury, a far from perfect eye with nerves getting in the way of the lens, the female birth canal designed for walking on all fours, not erect, the appendix, etc.

God is not great, evolution has done a reasonable job to get us here.

Perhaps your engineer friend should talk to feweer priests and more biologists.
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September 17, 2011 5:12pm
thedavincimode

“Man is supposedly made on god’s image, again a lousy design …”

I imagine that if someone suggested you take a leap of faith borker, you would look around to find something you could jump off.
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September 17, 2011 5:18pm
wat dabney

“You might want to reflect on the fact that millions of brilliant minds over the centuries have been religious people and that possibly they are right and you are wrong.”

I think the key phrase here is “over the centuries.”

Remember that “over the centuries” (i.e. in pre-scientific times) those same men also believed in a vast array of quackery.

So the probability that they are wrong is essentially 100%
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September 17, 2011 5:23pm
Griff

Pastafarianism is a real religion.

Most of us do not believe a religion – Christianity, Islam, Pastafarianiasm – requires literal belief in order to provide spiritual enlightenment. That is, we can be part of a community without becoming indoctrinated. There are many levels of belief.

By design, the only dogma allowed in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the rejection of dogma. That is, there are no strict rules and regulations, there are no rote rituals and prayers and other nonsense. Every member has a say in what this church is and what it becomes.

To outsiders it makes us hard to define, but here are some general things that can be said about our beliefs:

We believe pirates, the original Pastafarians, were peaceful explorers and it was due to Christian misinformation that they have an image of outcast criminals today
We are fond of beer
Every Friday is a Religious Holiday
We do not take ourselves too seriously
We embrace contradictions (though in that we are hardly unique)
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September 17, 2011 5:24pm
grumpyoldhori

Rick Perry, a searing contempt for women.
Christ what a sick fucking puppy Perry is, if a woman needs an abortion, under his rules she was to go to a doctor to have a virginal wand shoved up her while some fucking quake droned on.

Women through out the USA will want this policy by putting Perry in the White House ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/01/rick-perry-abortion-doctrine
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September 17, 2011 5:25pm
Mick Mac

Wat
You are so rude & silly, there are thousands of people right now on planet earth and probably (knowing God) in every country on earth who believe as that and are brilliant, let alone the millions who aren’t their level of intellect who do too.
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September 17, 2011 5:26pm
Mick Mac

paula
We could say the same about the God haters, but we don’t because on the last day you will weep so deep.
And if we are truly His, so will we because of that.
I don’t bother God He loves me and enjoys being with me so even the term god bothers shows your arrogence and hate towards Him and us.
There is no sacred and secular, all of life is sacred.
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September 17, 2011 5:29pm
Manolo

.. your own link says he was 74..

I stand corrected, Reid.
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September 17, 2011 5:31pm
Mick Mac

Wat
I am not smug, I offered you what traditional judeo christianity (that that believes in a spirit world) says about those areas seeing as you didn’t know.
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September 17, 2011 5:32pm
grumpyoldhori

One wonders how many Nobel prize winners believe the earth is only 6000 years old ?
Or are those Nobel winners not brilliant by the standards of so called intelligent design ?
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September 17, 2011 5:33pm
Mick Mac

Lee01 (649) Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:10 pm

yes it can be, but it also is designed to be read with the H/S.
a pagan or unbel;iever can’t do that because they haven’t surrendered to Him.
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September 17, 2011 5:36pm
wat dabney

Mick,

Millions of equally bright people believe and have believed in all manner of deities.

Clearly these people are contradicting each other on a massive scale.

So where does that leave you?

And just because you believe in the existence of a particular invisible pixie (from amongst many) doesn’t mean that the cruel dogma of that creed has any moral standing. Your twisted beliefs don’t legitimise cruelty, oppression and murder (“but the pixie said so”.)

Try thinking for yourselves.
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September 17, 2011 5:36pm
reid

Any god that created this universe would be a pretty lame god by any standard. First, more than 90% of all species that have ever lived are now extinct. That’s a heck of a lot of trial and error for the omnipotent one, don’t you think?

If we hadn’t had the dinosaurs we wouldn’t have oil and we wouldn’t have birds Jack.

e.g.

Etc to the rest of your arguments.

Crikey.
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September 17, 2011 5:39pm
grumpyoldhori

Mick Mac, if you are in NZ why are you here ? why are you not in a country where religion has a lot of say in the rule of the country like the USA and Iran ?

We the majority will never change and being the majority makes us right, yes as difficult as you may find it might makes right, and we heathens have the might here.
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September 17, 2011 5:42pm
Rodders

thedavincimode – I see what you mean about MyNameIsJack a.k.a Billy Borker a.k.a LeftRightOut
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2009/04/general_debate_anzac_day_2009.html#comment-556606 http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/05/general_debate_18_may_2010.html#comment-694336
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/02/rip_cliff_mila.html#comment-799534
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September 17, 2011 5:42pm
wat dabney

“If we hadn’t had the dinosaurs we wouldn’t have oil and we wouldn’t have birds Jack.”

This is an example of Christian logic.

It explains much.
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September 17, 2011 5:46pm
MyNameIsJack

reid (8,384) Says:

September 17th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Any god that created this universe would be a pretty lame god by any standard. First, more than 90% of all species that have ever lived are now extinct. That’s a heck of a lot of trial and error for the omnipotent one, don’t you think?

If we hadn’t had the dinosaurs we wouldn’t have oil and we wouldn’t have birds Jack.

And you won’t see me denying that. But it was still a lot of faffing about before Man was created, but that ain’t what the bible teaches, is it?

And an intelligent designer could have got us the oil without all fuss and bother. Or better still, provided us with a less polluting fuel.

Are dinousaurs now a proof of god?
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September 17, 2011 5:47pm
reid

It explains much.

Yes the reason you don’t understand the point wat is cause you’re a fool, on this issue.

Would you like me to explain the point?

Are dinousaurs now a proof of god?

Not at all Jack and I’m disappointed you are resorting to disingenuity, to make a point. I thought we went through this last week. I tire of it, BTW.
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September 17, 2011 5:48pm
big bruv

Bloody hell!

I bugger off for a few hours to tend to the garden (how I wish there was a god, I would ask the bastard to do something about oxalis) and return to find that I am being accused of being MNIJ.

Now, when a fully qualified fuckwit like D4J accuses me of being MNIJ I write it off as the rantings of an insane man, however when I am accused by somebody with more than one brain cell then it is a matter of concern.

I am not, nor have I ever been MNIJ.
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September 17, 2011 5:50pm
MyNameIsJack

I am not, nor have I ever been MNIJ.

Methinks you protest too much, for I am sure I am big bruv.
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September 17, 2011 5:54pm
wat dabney

“Would you like me to explain the point?”

Can you explain it in simple terms please, for a fool like me?

Let’s take it as a given that the world is as the Bible describes it, 6500 years old, and start from there.
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September 17, 2011 5:54pm
Scott Chris

Don the Kiwi – “The first law of physics is that “Matter cannot create itself.””

I’ll attempt to explain how quantum physicists explain the existence of matter, and how it came about. (link below is far more comprehensive)

Imagine a region of space devoid of matter or energy. According to Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle, this ‘nothingness’ is actually pregnant with virtual particle-antiparticle pairs that come into existence owing to quantum vacuum fluctuations, for very brief periods of time.

You’d think, then, that quantum vacuum fluctuations cannot have any relevance for the origin of the universe. However some physicists reckon that the entire universe *might* be a massive quantum vacuum fluctuation.

The key feature of the universe that would make this possible would be a total energy of zerocertainty relations, whatever the fuck that means. I’m not big on quantum mechanics but I think it translates to: “total energy = Zero”

You might wonder how the universe could have a total energy of zero. The answer could be that gravitational energy is negative when balanced with the positive energy of the matter of the universe. Throw in dark matter and dark energy into the mix (no one really understands that shit other than the perceived effect it has on the universe) and the whole thing should equal zero.

Two objections I have to this explanation. Why did quantum physics exist before the universe existed, and why would energy fluctuate? Weird.

Alas, a leap of faith is still required. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/vacuum.html
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September 17, 2011 5:56pm
East Wellington Superhero

A million young people turned out to see the 80 year old Pope talk to them last month in Spain. How many turn out to see Obama, the Dalai Lama, Katy Perry, or Richard Dawkinds? Hardly a dying religion. Anyway that’s it for me. DVD with girlfriend and then Australia vs Ireland.

Will leave you with a few lyrics from a Regina Spektor song (not a Christian from my understanding). People like MNIJ are brave behind the keyboard or at parties with people that agree with them, but life isn’t like that. My gut tells me that MNIJ is under 35 and has lived a pretty comfortable life compared to most on planet earth and thus his limited observations confirm they worldview he’d like to believe in.

No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one’s laughing at God
When they’re starving or freezing or so very poor

No one laughs at God when the doctor calls
After some routine tests
No one’s laughing at God
when it’s gotten real late
And their kid’s not back from that party yet

No one laughs at God when their airplane
Starts to uncontrollably shake
No one’s laughing at God
When they see the one they love hand in hand
with someone else and they hope that they’re mistaken
No one laughs at God when the cops knock on their door
And they say “We’ve got some bad new, sir,”
No one’s laughing at God
When there’s a famine, fire or flood

EWS out.
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September 17, 2011 5:58pm
wat dabney

“We could say the same about the God haters, but we don’t because on the last day you will weep so deep…I don’t bother God He loves me and enjoys being with me…”

Mac,

You know when you were a child and your dog Buster got old and your parents said he was going to the vets “for a holiday”, well…oh never mind.

He’s fine. He’s really enjoying his holiday.
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September 17, 2011 6:05pm
reid

Can you explain it in simple terms please, for a fool like me? Let’s take it as a given that the world is as the Bible describes it, 6500 years old, and start from there.

wat I addressed this point last week so pray refer there as previously advised. Only then, let’s resume this discussion.
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September 17, 2011 6:33pm
MyNameIsJack

No one laughs at God in a hospital

I was in hospital 7 weeks agao, shattered elbow, separated humerus, I wasn’t laughing at god, but I sent his emiissary away with a flea in his ear.

No one laughs at God in a war

“War is the last sensation
the final song with the longest note
like a silence, never broken
war is the book that nobody wrote.

Fear in their eyes, did the crucifix lie
Did the words of the church run dry
Fear in their eyes, did the crucifix lie
Did the words of the church run dry.”

No one laughs at God when their airplane
Starts to uncontrollably shake

Been there, done that, just sat waiting for the skill of the pilot to prevail or the storm to smash us to the ground, no point praying as prayer is never answered.
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September 17, 2011 6:46pm
nasska

MODERN WORLD BELIEFS:

Atheism: Shit Happens.
Hare Krishna: Shit Happens Rama Dama Ding Dong.
Hinduism: This shit happened before.
Islam: If shit happens, take a hostage.
Zen: What is the sound of shit happening.
Buddhism: When shit happens, is it really shit?
Confucianism: Confucius say, “Shit Happens”.
7th Day Adventist: Shit happens on Saturdays.
Protestantism: Shit won’t happen if I work harder.
Catholicism: If shit happens, I deserve it.
Jehovah’s Witness: Knock knock, shit happens.
Judaism: Why does shit always happen to me?
Rastafarian: Let’s smoke this shit.
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September 17, 2011 7:00pm
Scott Chris

Wat Dabney, Reid, and Lee01 are standing in line to be executed during the Maori Revolution.

Reid is first, and he lays down on the guillotine. Before Titewhai Harewira pulls the lever he shouts, “My God will save me!”. The lever is pulled, and the blade swooshes down, stopping just short of his neck. Titewhai, believing a miracle has occurred, figures she can’t kill Reid, as so sets him free.

Lee01 lays down on the guillotine. Like his fellow Christian, he shouts, “My God will save me!”. The lever is pulled, the blade falls, and once again it stops just short of his neck. Titewhai Harawira, again, believes God is on this man’s side, and lets him go.

Finally, Wat Dabney approaches the guillotine. Before he lies down to meet nothingness he notices a stone lodged in the framework which is preventing the blade from slicing home, and says to Titewhai, “Well here’s your problem…”

The moral? There’s a time and a place for skepticism.
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September 17, 2011 7:20pm
nasska

Did you know if you rearrange the letters in ‘religion’ it spells ‘ngoiilre’…

Yeah, still makes absolutely fuck all sense….
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September 17, 2011 7:30pm
Steve

Found this today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6wgAtqph68&feature=relmfu
Which lead to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGU6XSCu5gw

Beached as Gilbert
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September 17, 2011 7:38pm
nasska

This Muslim kid was standing in Pak & Save, crying his eyes out.

“What’s wrong?” the manager asked him.

“I can´t find my Mum,” he sobbed.

“What does she look like?”

“I don’t know, I’ve never seen her.”
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September 17, 2011 7:46pm
Scott Chris

My Name Is Jack buys an ancient lamp at an auction, takes it home, and begins to polish it. Suddenly, a genie appears, and says, “I’ll grant you three wishes, Master.”
Jack says, “I wish I could believe in you.” The genie snaps his fingers, and suddenly Jack believes in him.
Jack says, “Wow. I wish all atheists would believe this.” The genie snaps his fingers again, and suddenly atheists all over the world begin to believe in genies.
“What about your third wish?” asks the genie.
“Well,” says Jack, “I wish for a billion dollars.”
The genie snaps his fingers for a third time, but nothing happens.
“What’s wrong?” asks Jack.
The genie shrugs and says, “Just because you believe in me, doesn’t necessarily mean that I really exist.”
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September 17, 2011 7:50pm
Scott Chris

Anagrams:

Christian = Rich Saint

Atheist = Eat Shit
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September 17, 2011 8:06pm
nasska

Q: What’s Catholic Alzheimer’s Disease?
A: It’s when you forget everything but the guilt.

Q. Why was Christ crucified?
A. Because if he was drowned Catholics would have to hang aquariums above their mantelpieces.
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September 17, 2011 8:08pm
adze

Scott Chris is feeling the need fror some extreme adventure, so he goes base jumping in Pakistan. Before he jumps, his instructor gives him some advice.
“When you pull the main chute, check above you, if it hasn’t opened, pull the reserve chute.”
“What if the reserve chute doesn’t open?” Scott Chris asks.
“Then you must pray to Allah,” his instructor says.
Scott Chris leaps off the impossibly tall cliff in Pakistan and enjoys the first 20 seconds in free fall then pulls his main chute. He checks behind him and notices there’s no canopy!
He immediately pulls his reserve chute. He checks behind him and again his reserve chute had failed.
Scott nearly panicked but then thought “Wait – what was the third thing? Oh yeah, pray to Allah! What have I got to lose??”
And he cries out, “Allah! Please save me!!”
Suddenly, a huge olive-skinned hand extends out of the clouds, catches Scott Chris just metres above certain death, and very gently sets him safely on the ground!
“Phew!” Exclaimed Scott Chris, “Thank Christ for that!!”
And suddenly a huge olive-skinned foot came down and squashed Scott Chris flat.
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September 17, 2011 8:13pm
nasska

Adze

Very good!
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September 17, 2011 8:16pm
nasska

The Pope had become very ill and was taken to many doctors, all of whom could not figure out how to cure him. Finally he was brought to an old physician, who stated that he could figure it out. After about an hour’s examination he came out and told the cardinals that he knew what was wrong. He said that the bad news was that it was a rare disorder of the testicles. He said that the goods news was that all the Pope had to do to be cured was to have sex. Well, this was not good news to the cardinals, who argued about it at length. Finally they went to the Pope with the doctor and explained the situation.
After some thought, the Pope stated, “I agree, but under four conditions.” The cardinals were amazed and there arose quite an uproar. Over all of the noise there arose a single voice that asked, “And what are the four conditions?” The room stilled. There was a long pause… The Pope replied, “First the girl must be blind, so that she cannot see with whom she is having sex.”
“Second, she must be deaf, so that she cannot hear with whom she is having sex.” “Third she must be dumb so that if somehow she figures out with who she is having sex, she can tell no one.” After another long pause a voice arose and asked, “And the fourth condition?”
“Big tits” replied the Pope.
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September 17, 2011 8:21pm
Scott Chris

Three rather attractive young nuns are in church on a hot day. As there is no one around they decide to strip off their robes and press their naked bodies to the cool stone floor to cool off. Before long, they are playfighting and splashing one another with holy water, having a fine old frolic.

Suddenly, there comes a loud knock at the door, bringing the now rather aroused nuns back to their senses, but alas, their robes have been left draped over the pews in the hall where the knocking is coming from, and the naked nuns have nothing with which to conceal their rather shapely and nubile, wet bodies.

With trepidation, one of the nuns with large and particularly shapely breasts with pert pink nipples inquires, “Who is it?”

“Adze, the blind man!” a voice replies.

Relieved, the three nuns decide to simply open the door because, as Adze is blind, he will be unable to see them.

Adze walks in, looks at the nuns and says,

“Nice tits! Where do you want me to install these blinds?”
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September 17, 2011 8:43pm
nasska

The Popemobile: Because nothing says “I have faith in God” like 3 inches of bulletproof glass.
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September 17, 2011 9:04pm
Scott Chris

Nasska and a priest were playing golf. Nasska took his first shot missed and said, “Fuck, I missed.”
Surprised, the priest replied, “Don’t use that kind of language or God will punish you.”
Nasska muttered under his breath and lined up his second shot. Again he missed and said, “I fucken missed again. Fuck!”
The priest overheard and replied, “My son, please don’t use that language or God will punish you.”
Grumbling to himself, Nasska took his third swing, and once again he couldn’t help but yell, “Oh fucken fucken cocksuckers!!” “That’s it!” The priest thundered, “Now God will certainly punish you!”
Suddenly a bolt of lightning came down and killed the priest. In the distance a deep voice said, “FUCK, I MISSED!!!”
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September 17, 2011 9:05pm
Scott Chris

A Catholic priest had to go out for the day, so he asked the deacon to take confession for him. The deacon agreed. His first confessee was a young woman.
“Forgive me Father, for I just gave a guy a blow job.”
“You have sinned,” the deacon said, “for giving a blow job is an act of depravity.”
Accordingly, he looked in the ‘punishment for sin’ booklet for the appropriate penalty, but blow job wasn’t listed, so he went out to consult one of the altar boys to find out what the priest usually gave for a blow job.
“Oh, about five dollars.” Was the boys reply.
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September 17, 2011 9:31pm
Monique Watson

A young man had been seriously dating three lovely girls and was finally faced with the dilemma of which to marry. As a test he gave each of them $1,000:
The first girl went for a complete hair and face makeover, new clothes, and new shoes. She returned to show off her new look saying: “I want to be at my most beautiful for you. Why? Because I love you.” The second girl returned with new hockey and golf equipment, a new stereo, VCR and a month’s supply of beer saying: “I bought all these things for you.They’re my gifts to you, because I love you so.” The third girl invested the $1,000 wisely and very quickly doubled the original amount. She reinvested the profits which continued to multiply and returned the first thousand to the young man saying: “I have taken your money and made it grow as an investment in our future together. That’s how much I love you.” The young man was very impressed by all of their responses, and after giving long and careful consideration, he married the one with the biggest tits.
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September 17, 2011 9:39pm
Scott Chris

A man approached a rather beautiful, buxom woman in the large supermarket and said, “Please help me. I’ve lost my wife somewhere in the supermarket. Can you talk to me for a couple of minutes?”

The woman looked puzzled. “But why would you want to talk to me?” she asked.

“Because every time I talk to a beautiful woman with tits like yours, my wife appears out of nowhere.”
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September 17, 2011 9:57pm
Don the Kiwi

wat danby.
5.06 pm.

Well done wat – or is that twat?

Take something completely out of context and ignore the rest of the statement which qualifies the original point.

I think an 8 yr. old could do better.
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September 17, 2011 11:01pm
Don the Kiwi

Scott Chris.
5.56 pm.

Thanks for that Scott. Isn’t Quantum physics still just a theory? Isn’t that what the Hadron Collider ??? is supposed to do, prove it, but has failed – what – 3 times already?

In any event, something had to set up the matter-antimatter situation. I think the physicists are grasping at straws – however, I’ll allow time to prove/disprove their theory, but I suspect it will merely produce another mystery – more questions, but ultimately coming back to the same answer.
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September 17, 2011 11:08pm
Scott Chris

Don the Kiwi – “I think the physicists are grasping at straws – however, I’ll allow time to prove/disprove their theory”

Physicists will always apply the rigour of scientific method to their theory. That involves attempts to disprove theory, rather than find evidence to support it.

I agree that quantum fluctuation would still require a primary mover as far as I can see. Nothing means nothing to me, and nothing surely excludes quantum fluctuation, but physicists are concerned with mechanism, not meaning.

Existential meaning is the domain of theologists and philosophers. To paraphrase Einstein, physicists are trying to discover God’s method, not his intent.

In theory, there is no conflict between science and religion.
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September 18, 2011 7:19am
Manolo

More on Obama’s crony capitalism: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/solyndra-nation_593645.html
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September 18, 2011 7:33am
Scott Chris

Reflecting on yesterday’s discussion, the one most puzzling phenomenon for me is existence.

I have only one feasible idea which makes sense to me, and that involves the *assumption that nothingness is infinite*.

Thing is, according to mathematical rules, *in an infinite probability field, anything is possible*.

This would suggest that pan-universal truth is subjective, but in our arbitrary universe, truth is possibly absolute.
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September 18, 2011 7:37am
thedavincimode

rodders

The classic foot in mouth was when he proudly announced that he was determined to go to jail to make his stand against the Vietnam war but then also let slip that he subsequently did a runner over here to avoid the draft. Regrettably, he has remained here ever since.
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September 18, 2011 10:24am
Lee01

“Let’s take it as a given that the world is as the Bible describes it, 6500 years old, and start from there.”

It doesn’t. The ignorance of those who claim to “critique” Christianity is both sad and impressive.
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September 19, 2011 9:17am

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