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September 10, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 September 2011

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General Debate

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nasska

Scott Chris

Yes, very like that. Gold or silver, the end is the same.

We should, however, be thankful for the gift of religion be it Christianity or Sun worship. It gives us the chance to tune up the god botherers & it keeps them on their toes.

Lee01….”By all!”…..surely we haven’t convinced you to put forward the day you will meet your maker. Stick around, we need the humour you buggers afford us!
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September 10, 2011 3:23pm
reid

Thanks Lee.
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September 10, 2011 3:27pm
nasska

Lee01

PS….don’t neglect the harp lessons. You’ll need something to while away the time with before the Big Boy gets around to recreating the perfect world.
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September 10, 2011 3:29pm
MyNameIsJack

reid, I believe you are married, but correct me if I am wrong. However, regardless of that, I am sure you will have had at least one loving relationship in your life.

Given the above, was that relationship based on free will, ie, you made a conscious decision to love another person, or were other elements at play?
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September 10, 2011 3:29pm
reid

There are always many elements at play in the development of loving relationships Jack but what are you driving at?
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September 10, 2011 3:39pm
wat dabney

Lee01,

It is sad but very instructive to see you apologising for the nauseating litany of murder, depravity and cruelty that is the Bible.

If you truly believed that this sickening diatribe is a source of morality you wouldn’t be trying to twist every sordid and barbaric act into something it isn’t; instead you stand up straight and say yes, that is the right and moral thing to do.

The essential “moral” point of the Bible is that anything and everything the magic pixie does is okay, no matter how much suffering it inflicts on innocent people and how many atrocities and acts of savagery it commits.

Of course that isn’t morality at all. Morality is a code, whereas this is just a get out of jail free card for the pixie. Might is right.

It’s one thing to believe in an invisible magic pixie, it’s quite another to maintain that it has anything to do with morality. People who believed in Zeus and Apollo had just as much certainty and conviction as you do, they were just smart enough not to imagine that their deities were anything but the spoilt brats that their behaviour advertised.

The fact is that, in the book, the pixie fully deserved to be hung or crucified or whatever it was. For crimes against humanity.
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September 10, 2011 4:14pm
Scott Chris

Dick Smith Threatens To Out Rich Who Don’t Help Others:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/5600315/Smith-threatens-to-out-rich-who-don-t-help-others

Sounds like he’s caught Warren Buffetitis
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September 10, 2011 4:29pm
reid

wat how many times have you read it from cover to cover?

How much biblical scholarship have you done?

It’s a big book isn’t it.

Lots of stuff in it, isn’t there.

So pray tell us wat, how do you reconcile Ma 8:16 with Is 19:12? Bet you can’t tell us the answer there, can ya?
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September 10, 2011 4:31pm
wat dabney

reid,

Your point being that infanticide, murderous ethnic cleaning and a seemingly unending panoply of motley cruelties are in fact the very essence of morality?
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September 10, 2011 4:40pm
nasska

reid

Matthew 8:16-17

New International Version (NIV)

16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

“He took up our infirmities
and bore our diseases.”[a]

#######

Isaiah 19:12

New International Version (NIV)

12 Where are your wise men now?
Let them show you and make known
what the LORD Almighty
has planned against Egypt

######

It’s a bit cryptic for a simple atheist. How about you enlighten us.
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September 10, 2011 4:46pm
kowtow

ahem,
tom hunters 1008 pax americana piece is very interesting. A direct referencce to the NZ and Chinese military improving ties ,where’s Keith Locke?
Also in todays news Egyptians attack Israeli embassy…..how’s that Arab Spring going ?
Turkey flexing it’s non Islamic “secular” muscle in an anti Israel posture.

Dangerous times.I wouldn’t be too bothered about Creation ,it’s looking like the other end of the Book, Armageddon.
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September 10, 2011 4:51pm
Scott Chris

The Fable Of The One Hundred Idiots:

“One hundred idiots make plans and carry them out. All but one fails. The hundredth idiot, whose plan succeeded through pure luck, is immediately convinced he’s a genius.” [Iain M Banks]

Donald Trump’s top 4 quotes:

“All of the women on ‘The Apprentice’ flirted with me, consciously or unconsciously. That’s to be expected.”

“You know, it really doesn`t matter what they write as long as you`ve got a young and beautiful piece of ass.”

“My fingers are long and beautiful, as, it has been well been documented, are various other parts of my body.”

“You know the funny thing, I don’t get along with rich people. I get along with the middle class and the poor people better than I get along with the rich people”
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September 10, 2011 4:56pm
reid

Your point being that infanticide, murderous ethnic cleaning and a seemingly unending panoply of motley cruelties are in fact the very essence of morality?

It’s a bit cryptic for a simple atheist. How about you enlighten us.

wat and nasska my point is like any science the Bible has complex layers of meaning. Those particular ones have none but many do. (It was a joke.) The point is if you want to reject something, first understand what it is you’re rejecting, is not an unreasonable way to live your life.
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September 10, 2011 4:58pm
nasska

reid

Except in the archaic sense of the word (ie knowledge) associating science with the bible is a bit of a stretch. A couple of thousand pages of cryptic descriptions of a belief & its history is hardly comparable to atom splitting.

That aside I consider that I have a reasonable layman’s knowledge of the bible….it is one of the very dubious advantages of a Christian boarding school education. As a survivor of the insidious mind cleansing techniques employed I confidently note that the inability of the religious to live their lives according to a semblance of their purported beliefs turns the whole deal ice cold.

Therefore I reject your suggestion that my atheism results from a lack of technical knowledge about religion….it is instead the utter hypocrisy of its adherents that did the trick.
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September 10, 2011 5:14pm
wat dabney

reid,

Those repulsive and revolting verses could not be clearer; a cesspool of Yahwah’s violence, cruelty and depravity. There is no allegory or “complex layered meaning.”

But it’s encouraging that, like Lee01, you feel the need to twist, distort and deny the Bible to fit your modern humanist outlook.
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September 10, 2011 5:16pm
bereal

last sunday the editor of the Herald on Sunday said,
“Sonny Bill, we dont care where you go, just go.”
i wonder if that cretin saw last nights opening game.

SBW rated 8.5 in todays Herald. (Nonu 7.5)
A very small minded misguided parochial moronic comment.
Will the editor have the balls to apologise or what ?
Looking forward to his apology in 2 morrows paper.
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September 10, 2011 5:44pm
reid

it is instead the utter hypocrisy of its adherents that did the trick.

nasska you have to separate religion from mankind’s practice of it to understand it.

Religion isn’t about anything other than YOUR relationship to G-d.

Other people even partners don’t come into it, it’s that personal.

Therefore it’s irrelevant what any particular individual or denomination get up to.

But it’s encouraging that, like Lee01, you feel the need to twist, distort and deny the Bible to fit your modern humanist outlook.

Crikey do I?

Well I do like twisting and distorting and denying as well but I’m not even sure what a “modern humanist outlook” really is wat so could you pray elucidate?
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September 10, 2011 5:45pm
bereal

Hey reid, we all know you are ,”not even sure.”
Then why bother ?
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September 10, 2011 5:52pm
reid

bereal

Que?
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September 10, 2011 5:57pm
reid

Look wat I fear this is boring people but if you’re alleging there is violence in the Bible and what about that then so what?

Crikey.

Do you not think this issue hasn’t been considered and settled. Do some basic research if it concerns you.
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September 10, 2011 6:08pm
Griff

The interesting thing is were did the carpenter go to learn his philosophy
There was a Israelite movement at the time that was teaching a similar humanist morel outlook as in “do on to …”
The church (the holders of Jesus philosophy) dis owned your believers they said to Paul go teach the others and we will teach our own. To some Hebrew you have to be A son of David to qualify for all the promises
Hebrew believed in a leader to release them from the roman rule.
The early followers believed in Jesus philosophy.
Christianity came from the teachings of Paul; mixed up with another sect Gnosticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism.
Filtered through Pax Romana
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September 10, 2011 6:19pm
reid

Auckland mayor Len Brown said the cause of the safety buttons being pushed was varied from medical concerns to people feeling constrained in carriages.

Ain’t that typical. Lefties think it was all cause of innocence.

[Article says train delays caused by people pushing emergency stop so often train couldn’t move and had to be swapped out.]
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September 10, 2011 6:21pm
reid

You know the simplest and incidentally cheapest and also most efficient way to solve this phantom button pushing is for the first time it happens and proves to be false the driver makes an announcement along the lines of all the passengers now keep an eagle eye on their nearest emergency stop button and let the guards know who presses it if and when it’s pressed again.

But I bet they don’t do that.
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September 10, 2011 6:36pm
nasska

reid

…”Religion isn’t about anything other than YOUR relationship to G-d.”….

Hmmm…sounds simple but has to be a no sale. If it was only a personal relationship why would the world be littered with synagogues, mosques & cathedrals? Why popes, priests, rabbis & imams? Why cassocks, robes, communions & altars?

A personal relationship wouldn’t need all this crap. Could probably do without papal decrees, fatwas & ancient bearded men banging on at the wailing wall. No, for this mumbo jumbo to be considered vital the entire religion racket would have to have been taken over by power hungry bullshit artists who realised that filling the gap between the ruling class & the proletariat could be a nice little earner.

Regular sermons on how the poor & meek will have it good in the next world would help. Keep the collection box full by sending in missionaries to soften up the native populations before the troops & traders move in. Ban contraception to ensure a good supply of catholics with a preinstalled sense of guilt.

Or perhaps I’m just a cynic….what do you think?
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September 10, 2011 6:36pm
Griff

A little girl asked her father: ‘How did the human race appear?’

The father answered, ‘God made Adam and Eve; they had children; and so was all mankind made.’

Two days later the girl asked her mother the same question.

The mother answered, ‘Many years ago there were monkeys from which the human race evolved.’

The confused girl returned to her father and said, ‘Dad, how is it possible that you told me the human race was created by God, and Mom said they developed from monkeys?’

The father answered, ‘Well, Dear, it is very simple. I told you about my side of the family, and your mother told you about hers.’
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September 10, 2011 6:57pm
reid

…perhaps I’m just a cynic….what do you think?

I think you’re conflating religion with mankind’s practice of it nasska and judging it based on the mankind and not on the spiritual dimension.

Don’t get me wrong in my previous, other people’s opinions of course are useful in this as in all fields and one takes those onboard sometimes fully and sometimes partially and sometimes not at all. Just because I’m an Anglican for example doesn’t mean I agree with the ABC’s position on anything.

What I was intending to transmit whether or not I used the correct words is that at its essence religion stands or falls based on one’s personal relationship to G-d and that stands apart from the denomination one chooses to worship at.

If you want good sermons, excellent outstanding sermons, lookup William Barclay’s.
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September 10, 2011 6:58pm
Steve

7pm joke time, cool

Len Brown
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September 10, 2011 7:01pm
nasska

Q. Why did God invent rugby?
A. So that married men could have some physical contact in their lives.

Q. How do you kill that which has no life
A. Pull the plug on his gaming computer.

Q. What’s the definition of irreconcilable differences?
A. When she’s melting down her wedding ring to cast it into a bullet.

Q. What do spinach and anal sex have in common?
A. If you were forced to have it as a kid, you’ll hate it as an adult.
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September 10, 2011 7:02pm
Griff

Seven wise men with knowledge so fine,
created a pussy to their design.
First was a butcher,
with smart wit,
using a knife,
he gave it a slit,
Second was a carpenter,
strong and bold,
with a hammer and chisel,
he gave it a hole,
Third was a tailor,
tall and thin,
by using red velvet,
he lined it within,
Fourth was a hunter,
short and stout,
with a piece of fox fur,
he lined it without,
Fifth was a fisherman,
nasty as hell,
threw in a fish and gave it a smell,
Sixth was a preacher,
whose name was McGee,
he touched it and blessed it,
and said it could pee,
Last was a sailor,
dirty little runt,
he sucked it and f****d it,
and called it a c**t.
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September 10, 2011 7:09pm
nasska

Catholic parents have discovered a way to stop their teenagers from having sex, as they have strong urges to do so at a young age and aren’t allowed to use contraception. A way to prevent them having sex all together without castration has been discovered…

They call it, ‘Ginger hair dye’.
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September 10, 2011 7:15pm
bereal

reid
Que? @ 5.57
sorry mate, that went over my head. Or under as the case maybe.
If it did mean anything perhaps you could spell it out.
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September 10, 2011 7:38pm
Griff

Scientists and God

One day a group of Darwinian scientists got together and decided that man
had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one Darwinian
to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

The Darwinian walked up to God and said, “God, we’ve decided that we no
longer need you. We’re to the point that we can clone people and do many
miraculous things, so why don’t you just go on and get lost.”

God listened very patiently and kindly to the man. After the Darwinian was
done talking, God said, “Very well, how about this? Let’s say we have a
man-making contest.” To which the Darwinian happily agreed.

God added, “Now, we’re going to do this just like I did back in the old
days with Adam.”

The Darwinian said, “Sure, no problem” and bent down and grabbed himself a
handful of dirt.

God looked at him and said, “No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!!!!”
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September 10, 2011 7:39pm
nasska

One evening a family brings their frail, elderly mother to a
nursing home and leaves her, hoping she will be well cared for. The next
morning, the nurses bathe her, feed her a tasty breakfast, and set her in a
chair at a window overlooking a lovely flower garden.

She seems OK, but after a while she slowly starts to lean over
sideways in her chair. Two attentive nurses immediately rush up to
catch her and straighten her up.

Again she seems OK, but after a while she starts to tilt to the
other side.

The nurses rush back and once more bring her back upright.
This goes on all morning.

Later the family arrives to see how the old woman is adjusting
to her new home.

“So Mum, how is it here? Are they treating you all right?” they ask.

“It’s pretty nice,” she replies. “Except they won’t let you fart.”
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September 10, 2011 7:50pm
Griff

666 Biblical Number of the Beast
660 Approximate Number of the Beast
DCLXVI Roman Numeral of the Beast
665 Number of the Beast’s Older Brother
667 Number of the Beast’s Younger Sister
664 or 668 Number of the Beast’s Next-Door Neighbors
999 Number of the Australian Beast
333 Number of the Semi-Beast (also “Halfway to Hell”)
66 Number of the Downsized Beast
6, uh…, I forget Number of the Blond Beast
666.0000 Number of the High Precision Beast
665.9997856 Number of the Beast on a Pentium
0.666 Number of the Millibeast
X / 666 Beast Common Denominator
0.00150150… Reciprocal of the Beast
-666 Opposite of the Beast
666i Imaginary Number of the Beast
6.66 x 102 Scientific Notation of the Beast
25.8069758… Square Root of the Beast
443556 Square of the Beast
1010011010 Binary Number of the Beast
1232 Octal of the Beast
29A Hexidecimal of the Beast
2.8235 Log of the Beast
6.5913 Ln of the Beast
1.738 x 10289 Anti-Log of the Beast
00666 Zip Code of the Beast
666@hell.org E-mail Address of the Beast
http://www.666.com Website of the Beast
1-666-666-6666 Phone & FAX Number of the Beast
1-866-666-6666 Toll Free Number of the Beast
(which could also be written 18-666-666-666!)
1-900-666-6666 Live Beasts, available now! One-on-one pacts!
Only $6.66 per minute! (Must be over 6+6+6 years old!)
666-66-6666 Social Security Number of the Beast
Form 10666 Special IRS Tax Forms for the Beast
66.6% Tax Rate of the Beast
6.66% 6-Year CD Interest Rate at First Beast Bank of Hell
($666 minimum deposit, $666 early withdrawal fee)
$666/hr Billing Rate of the Beast’s Lawyer
$665.95 Retail Price of the Beast
$710.36 Price of the Beast plus 6.66% Sales Tax
$769.95 Price of the Beast with accessories and replacement soul
$656.66 Wal-Mart Price of the Beast (next week $646.66!)
$55.50 Monthly Payments for Beast, in 12 easy installments
Phillips 666 Gasoline Used by the Beast (regular $6.66/gal)
Route 666 Highway of the Beast (where he gets his kicks!)
666 mph Speed Limit on the Beast’s Highway
6-6-6 Fertilizer of the Beast
666 lb cap Weight Limit of the Beast
666 Minutes Weekly News Show about the Beast (airs daily from
Midnight to 11:06 a.m., on Cable Channel 666, of course)
666o F Oven Temperature for Cooking “Roast Beast”
666k Retirement Plan of the Beast
666 mg Recommended Minimum Daily Requirement of Beast
Lotus 6-6-6 Spreadsheet of the Beast
Word 6.66 Word Processor of the Beast
Windows 666 Bill Gates’ Personal Beast Operating System
#666666 Font Color of the Beast (the gray in this table, no kidding!)
i66686 CPU of the Beast
666-I BMW of the Beast
IAM 666 License Plate Number of the Beast
Formula 666 All Purpose Cleaner of the Beast
WD-666 Spray Lubricant of the Beast
DSM-666 (rev) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the Beast
66.6 MHz FM Radio Station of the Beast
666 KHz AM Radio Station of the Beast
66 for 6 A Beastly Score for an Innings (in cricket)
6 for 66 Bowling Figures of the Beast
6/6/6 Birthday of the Beast (but in which century?)
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September 10, 2011 8:01pm
Steve

On Duty Firemen denied from 9/11 commemoration
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10750823&ref=rss
NZPFU at it again, fucking commie Unionists
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September 10, 2011 8:04pm
bereal

Footy on now.
Otherwise, where do these morons come from ?
How long did a birdbrain like Griff spend on
his signature effort @ 8.01 ?
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September 10, 2011 8:04pm
bereal

griff
give up you moron.
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September 10, 2011 8:06pm
Griff

@bereal

Que?
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September 10, 2011 8:07pm
Steve

Griff,
I did not know Helen had so many phone numbers and Hotmail addresses
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September 10, 2011 8:12pm
bereal

Griff.
Pathetic mate.
Que?
Like i said. If thats your best shot.
Jeez.
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September 10, 2011 8:12pm
nasska

What’s the difference between a hooker, a girlfriend and a wife?
The hooker say’s, “Aren’t you done yet?”
The girlfriend says, “Are you done already?”
And the wife says, “Beige. I think I’ll paint the ceiling beige.
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September 10, 2011 8:13pm
Scott Chris

Why Scrubone thinks Sarah Palin would be the perfect POTUS

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-P9FhOzsYyws/Th0NMthqpJI/AAAAAAAADu0/-D91ibdpbGg/s1600/Sarah-Palin.jpg
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September 10, 2011 8:15pm
Griff

Kiwi blog law
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison to, or mention of das clarkinfuhrer approaches 1 (100%).
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September 10, 2011 8:17pm
Scott Chris

High resolution pic of tui by chthoniid. Great detail:

http://chthoniid.zenfolio.com/img/v29/p892849944-4.jpg
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September 10, 2011 8:36pm
nasska

A woman pregnant with triplets was walking down the street when a masked
robber ran out of a bank and shot her three times in the stomach.

Luckily the babies were OK. The surgeon decided to leave the bullets in
because it was too risky to operate.

She gave birth to two healthy daughters and a healthy son.

All was fine for 16 years, and then one daughter walked into the room in
tears.

‘What’s wrong?’ asked the mother. ‘I was taking a tinkle and this bullet
came out,’ replied the daughter.

The mother told her it was okay and explained what happened 16 years
ago.

About a week later the second daughter walked into the room in tears.
‘Mum,
I was taking a tinkle and this bullet came out.’

Again the mother told her not to worry and explained what happened 16
years ago.

A week later her son walked into the room in tears. ‘It’s okay’ said the
Mum
‘I know what happened You were taking a tinkle and a bullet came out.’

‘No,’ said the boy, ‘I was playing with myself and I shot the dog.’
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September 10, 2011 8:40pm
Griff

There was a young Scottish boy called Angus who decided to try life in New Zealand. He found an apartment in a small block and settled in.

After a week or two, his mother called from Aberdeen to see how her son was doing in his new life.

‘I’m fine, ‘ Angus said. ‘But there are some really strange people living in these apartments. One woman cried all day long, another lies on her floor moaning, and there is a guy next door to me who bangs his head on the wall all the time.’

‘Well, ma laddie,’ says his mother, ‘I suggest you don’t associate with people like that.’

‘Oh,’ says Angus, ‘I don’t, Mam, I don’t. No, I just stay inside my apartment all day and night, playing my bagpipes.’
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September 10, 2011 8:45pm
nasska

A young woman was having a physical examination and was very embarrassed because of a weight problem. As she removed her last bit of clothing, she blushed. “I’m so ashamed, Doctor,” she said, “I guess I let myself go.” The physician was checking hers eyes and ears. “Don’t feel ashamed, Miss. You don’t look that bad.”
“Do you really think so, Doctor?” she asked. The doctor held a tongue depressor in front of her face and said, “Of course. Now just open your mouth and say moo.”
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September 10, 2011 8:58pm
Griff

A hen is only an egg’s way of making another egg.
Samuel Butler

If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe.
Carl Sagan

People used to explore the dimensions of reality by taking LSD to make the world look weird.
Now the world is weird and they take Prozac to make it look normal.
Bangstrom

Science may be described as the art of systematic over-simplification.
Sir Karl Raymund Popper

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.
Dale Carnegie

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston Churchill

The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact us.
Bill Watterson

Opinions are like feet. Everybody’s got a couple, and they usually stink.
Jim Slattery

Life is like a roll of toilet paper; hopefully long and useful, but it always ends at the wrong moment.
Rudyh
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September 10, 2011 9:17pm
MyNameIsJack

Steve (1,828) Says:

September 10th, 2011 at 8:04 pm
On Duty Firemen denied from 9/11 commemoration
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10750823&ref=rss
NZPFU at it again, fucking commie Unionists

What a fucking moron. Its the NZFS management that has placed the ban.

Still, typical of the illeducated jism that passes for the right wing these days.
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September 10, 2011 10:06pm
adze

This could get ugly:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/10/egypt-declares-state-alert-embassy
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September 10, 2011 10:29pm
tom hunter

So ~~could~~ is this:
Germany prepares for Greek default

Greece is “on a knife’s edge,” German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told lawmakers at a closed-door meeting in Berlin on Sept. 7, a report in parliament’s bulletin showed yesterday. If the government can’t meet the aid terms, “it’s up to Greece to figure out how to get financing without the euro zone’s help,” he later said in a speech to parliament.”

The German government is awaiting the results of the Greek progress report and will decide what course of action then, a government spokesman said, speaking on customary condition of anonymity.

European bank credit risk surged to an all-time high today and stocks fell worldwide on concern that the debt crisis is escalating. German two-year yields declined to a record as investors sought a haven and Greek two-year note yields added as much as 86 basis points to 55.91 percent, a euro-era record.

…. on concern that the debt crisis is escalating. On concern? Where have these people been for the last year: it’s been as clear as daylight for at least that long that this was coming, and once Greece goes….
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September 10, 2011 11:25pm

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Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
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This will not end well
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Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
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Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
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Dan Moskovitz

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