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August 14, 2011 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 14 August 2011

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General Debate

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tom hunter

DPF – thanks.
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August 14, 2011 2:32pm
reid

A conspiracy of that size would require and unbroken daisy-chain with a thousand fragile links

Scott a lot of people when they hear the word “conspiracy” have a Pavlovian reaction to the word. There’s an embedded association emplaced into the sub-conscious over time by insidious transmitters buried deep in every single person’s head at birth, even if you’re born in a mud hut in the jungle during Monsoon season. This is how they do it. It’s quite obvious when you think about it.

You can break out of the spell by doing the following. When you read about “conspiracy” stuff, don’t bother about thinking about how possible or not it all is, just go with the flow. There are dozens of aspects to it, just pick one you like. For example, there are biblical, financial, political, military elements. All of them have a range of views on a range of things. The military ones have a lot of interesting hardware, the politics interesting power structures and complete utter corruption, financial every commercial aspect from banking systems to corporations to money power and the biblical gives the raison d’etre.

OTY.
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August 14, 2011 2:37pm
tom hunter

So sorry, not interested in debating its veracity, unless someone wants to under the rules of the arena its coming from with a full understanding of that world.

Well yes. The ultimate in debate framing: an entirely different world.

Of course this also means that it would be worthless debating with such a person about the failures of the CIA or US National Security on 9/11, or the various cultural pathologies that produce a Mohammed Atta or a Shehzad Tanweer, or the rise of the Tea Party, the causes of the GFC or US politics – or anything really. What’s the point when the person knows that “the truth is out there” and regards all the rest as superfluous or a false front?

It’s also a deeply unconservative position.
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August 14, 2011 2:41pm
reid

Very happy to debate any of those issues tom, which one would you like?
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August 14, 2011 2:42pm
Viking2

More stupid legislation.

Landlords are liable – New File Share Law

Landlords who are providing Internet access when renting furnished or holiday homes are liable for the actions of their tenants. Similarly, you’ll be liable for the actions of your guests using your Internet account at home from 1 September 2011.

Infringing File Sharing – Amendment Act 2011 makes changes to the Copyright Act 1994 for cracking down on peer-to-peer file sharing on the Internet. The law says that the person who owns the Internet account (account holder) is liable, even if he or she wasn’t the person who broke the law. In other words for the landlord will it be hard to give evidence or reasons not to be guilty.

The process is to get two notices before the hearing of Copyright Tribunal. If your tenant signs a related clause in the tenancy agreement, you’ll be able to act accordingly. Otherwise the minimum penalty is $275 and goes up to $15,000.
The law comes into force on 1 September 2011 and by definition “File sharing” is:
– material uploaded or downloaded from the Internet, and
– using an application or network that enables the simultaneous sharing of material between multiple users.
http://www.propertytalk.com/forum/showthread.php?29433-Landlords-are-liable-New-File-Share-Law
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August 14, 2011 2:56pm
joana

The rich in this country are twenty per cent better off; the poor are getting poorer…how long before we have riots? Labour , National , Labour ..just the same old , same old..the continuing upward distribution of wealth. Both major parties serve their foreign masters. And now we have Key’s big , bright ideas re Youth.. His commitment to this country is tenous at best;the son of dysfunctional immigrants and then having spent most of his adult life outside of NZ..As people said a few years back , he is first and foremost an opportunist. It doesn’t seem long since Labour was being accused of being a nanny state..so many contradictions, so many double standards.
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August 14, 2011 3:48pm
starboard

I dont know why people have to keep bringing up Keys family “the son of dysfunctional immigrants”.. what the fuck does that have to do with anything and why mention it? and Fran whats her name talked about John Key’s ‘Jewish’ mother’ WTF?
No ones business but their own.
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August 14, 2011 4:38pm
calendar girl

I agree with Starboard. Joana’s hate-filled comment about John Key’s family, “the son of dysfunctional immigrants”, is quite appalling.

The “immigrants” tag sounds like an insidious dog whistle for “Jewish”. But dysfunctional? Because Key’s father was apparently a no-hoper, and his parents divorced? What is remotely dysfunctional about an heroic solo mother who fought against great odds to bring up and inspire her son to be ambitious, well-educated, internationally successful in his pre-parliamentary career, and finally Prime Minister of his country?

Key’s ultimate political legacy is still far from clear, but his mother deserves the humble admiration of us all for the person that she herself proved to be, not the bile that occasionally spews forth in this country as the politics of envy.
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August 14, 2011 5:59pm
Johnboy

“The “immigrants” tag sounds like an insidious dog whistle for “Jewish”. ”

Hell “immigrants” used to be picking on the coconuts! Fuck we are retrograding to Nazism!

What a shit little country you create when you encourage “Positive Racism” ! 🙂
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August 14, 2011 6:05pm
starboard

“the poor are getting poorer”

because most are dumb and lazy dickheads who believe the world owes them a living..fuck off parasites…waddle ya arses down to countdown and get a job stacking shelves…oh not for you?..wouldnt lower yourselves?..well maybe you shouldnt have wasted your time at school then eh…? I resent having to pay you anything.
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August 14, 2011 6:38pm
nasska

A window cleaner goes to a monastery looking for work. The chief abbot tells him to clean all the windows except the top three, so the window cleaner cleans all the windows for years and years until curiosity gets the better of him and he puts his ladder up against the first of the three windows, he looks in and sees 12 monks with there robes up and their cocks lying on a table with a mouse running around on top of the table.
The window cleaner goes down the ladder moves to the second window and looks in, there is this beautiful woman and a monk in bed fucking like mad. The window cleaner goes down the ladder and puts it up against the third window, he look in and sees a monk tied up, stripped to the waist being flogged.
He goes down the ladder, and when he gets to the bottom the Chief Abbot is waiting for him. The window cleaner says, “Look, I know you’re going to sack me, but please, at least tell me what is going on.”
“Well says the Abbot, “in the first window you saw a competition to see which is the lucky monk, where ever the mouse stops is the lucky monk. And in the second window you saw a monk with the prize.”
“But what about the third window?” the window cleaner asks.
“Well,” says the Abbot, “that monk was caught with a piece of cheese under his foreskin.”
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August 14, 2011 7:00pm
Steve

Does this have any ‘Gravity’?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGqx-IXckK4&feature=related
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August 14, 2011 7:42pm
Other_Andy

Untill 2011 Auckland received its only recorded snowfall on 27 July 1939.

Then came Anthropomorphic Global Warming………………………………..

This year it snowed on August 14, 2011, and it might even snow again.
An Antarctic blast in the next few days could bring snow showers to Auckland with snow expected to fall on tops of mountain ranges. WeatherWatch.co.nz is forecasting snow showers down to 200 metres, 100 metres lower than when it snowed in July, which is a rare forecast for the city of sails. This would see snow falling and possibly settling on the tops of the Waitakere and Hunua ranges and right across the Coromandel Peninsula.
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August 14, 2011 7:53pm
Pauleastbay

A man walks into his bedroom and sees his wife packing a suitcase.

He asks,” What are you doing?”

She answers, “I’m moving to Melbourne . I heard prostitutes there get paid $200 a night for doing what I do for you for free.”

A little later, on her way out, the wife walks past the bedroom and sees her husband packing his suitcase.

When she asks him where he is going, he replies, “I’m coming too. I want to see how you live on $400 a year.”
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August 14, 2011 7:53pm
Hollyfield

Herald online front page says “John Key and Helen Clark have led the tributes to former Governor General Sir Paul Reeves,……” I clicked on the link and read the article, it mentions John Key, Helen Clark, Metiria Turei and Archbishop David Moxon. No mention of Phil Goff – where is he, is he overseas or something. And if he is unavailable, why hasn’t Annette King been quoted? Or is Helen Clark the official spokesperson for the Labour Party?
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August 14, 2011 7:59pm
calendar girl

Johnboy@6.05pm: You, at least, must have some idea what you’re talking about.
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August 14, 2011 8:00pm
Luc Hansen

wat dabney (674) Says:
August 14th, 2011 at 12:17 pm

This is the Monckton method: start with a lie and build upon that lie with yet more lies.

Other_Andy (339) Says:
August 14th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

You really must do a little study on the difference between weather and climate.
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August 14, 2011 8:28pm
Hurf Durf

George W Bush mark 2

That’s the current President though, dummy!

I look forward to reading more of your crap talking points moving forwards.
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August 14, 2011 8:48pm
Other_Andy

“You really must do a little study on the difference between weather and climate.”

So there is no relation between the weather and climate?
Or only when it fits the AGW theory?
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August 14, 2011 8:58pm
krazykiwi

“the poor are getting poorer”

Wealth is more equally distributed today that it was 100 years ago, and then more than it was 1000 years ago, and then more than is was at any time prior.
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August 14, 2011 9:11pm
wat dabney

Luc,

Perhaps if you indulge in enough indignant sputtering the science and measurements will go away?
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August 14, 2011 9:21pm
Griff

climate is what you expect weather is what you get
snowed in Krd in the 70s
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August 14, 2011 9:21pm
Viking2

What you need to know

Influx of New Zealanders to Gold Coast raises fears of homelessness, crime and health issues

by Paul Weston
From: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
August 14, 2011 12:00AM
kiwis are heading here to live and apparently it’s because our natural disasters aren’t as bad as theirs.

KIWIS are being told to not move to the Gold Coast glitter strip as horror stories emerge about working across the ditch.

The latest research from Statistics New Zealand shows 29,900 permanent and long-term residents arrived in Australia in the 12 months to June – the largest in three years.

Most of them are heading to Queensland, with 16,000 short and long-term-stay New Zealanders flying in to Brisbane Airport from earthquake-prone Christchurch.

Statistics New Zealand research shows more than 10,000 Christchurch residents arrived at the Coast’s Coolangatta airport in the first six months of this year – many of them refugees from the city’s 6.3-magnitude earthquake that struck on February 22.

Figures released to The Sunday Mail from Education Queensland reveal how many Kiwis are staying – 8767 New Zealand-born students are enrolled in Coast-Logan schools.

BUT; And in a blunt message to fellow New Zealanders, Nerang Neighbourhood Centre co-ordinator Vicky Va’a said: “Don’t come here if you don’t have a plan and don’t already know what is available here if things go bad.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/influx-of-new-zealanders-to-gold-coast-raises-fears-of-homelessness-crime-and-health-issues/story-e6freoof-1226114421719
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August 14, 2011 9:27pm
Luc Hansen

wat

It’s not indignation that I feel.

But it’s a fact that that rant at Jo Nova’a blog contains not one scientific fact, right from the second sentence.

The planet is warming. Regardless of annual ups and downs, completely normal, every decade is warmer than the last.

In fact, without anthropogenic emissions, the world would, indeed, be in a long term cooling phase, but not in any time frame meaningful to us.

You and your mates here need to examine your own belief systems that prevents you from accepting the scientific consensus.

The basic science is settled. Only crooks, fools and auto-contrarians dispute this.
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August 14, 2011 10:39pm
Griff

David Archibald
is a Perth, Australia-based scientist operating in
the fields of climate science, cancer research and oil exploration.
geologist, geomorphologist, and soil scientist,

Gee wat this guy must have an IQ of 300 plus to be a scientist in all these fields
pity it does not list his Qualification must have a triple phd or some thing you no dr dr dr David Archibald
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August 14, 2011 10:45pm
Luc Hansen

Indeed Griff, and by promoting outfight lies (where is his data?) he fits nicely into at least two of the three categories above.
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August 14, 2011 10:52pm
Luc Hansen

Rt just showed an interview with one of the current bogeymen of the West (you know, the type who say “Boo!” and you guys go weak at the knees), Ahmadinejad.

Interesting to see the view from the East.
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August 14, 2011 10:56pm
Luc Hansen

The oceans started cooling in 2003,

http://www.skepticalscience.com/cooling-oceans.htm
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August 14, 2011 11:02pm
Luc Hansen

the temperature of planet today is almost the same as it was when satellites first started measuring it in 1979

http://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq

More than half of this warming—about 0.72°F (0.4°C)—has occurred since 1979.
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August 14, 2011 11:08pm
Luc Hansen

There has been no warming since 1998.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-stopped-in-1998.htm

and

http://www2.ucar.edu/climate/faq

Thanks in large part to the record-setting El Niño of 1997–98, the year 1998 was the warmest year globally in the 20th century. Since 2001 the global trend has been relatively flat, and 2008 was the coolest year so far this decade (see graph at left). However, a simple calculation shows that global temperatures continue to run much warmer now than in the past: the average from 1999–2008 exceeds the average from 1989–1998, even though the latter period includes the record-warm 1998.

Although scientists are confident that global temperatures will rise further in the coming decades, there could still be occasional “pauses” in warming that last a few years, like the one we’re seeing now.

Some of the contributing factors to these breaks in warming could include erupting volcanoes that spew sunlight-blocking ash skyward, a lack of El Niño events, and/or the natural minimum in the 11-year solar cycle. Since we are now emerging from the most recent solar minimum, and an El Niño is developing in 2009, there’s good reason to believe global temperatures will climb significantly as the 2010s approach.
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August 14, 2011 11:13pm
Luc Hansen

Some of us predate that and remember the heavy frosts of the nineteen seventies. Those frosts are returning, and worse.

Not in NZ, which is much cooler than Australia, they’re not!

PS I remember the even heavier frosts in the 1950s: that brings back memories, indeed, of mornings in the dairy factory village and the crunch of frosty grass underfoot as I walked barefoot to primary school!
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August 14, 2011 11:25pm
Luc Hansen

We in this blessed country will be spared the worst of it,

What a joke. The record-breaking droughts and floods are just a foretaste of things to come for the Aussies!

And their wheat harvest will collapse, sadly.

Read Gwynne Dyer’s “Climate Wars” for real research on this topic.
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August 14, 2011 11:33pm

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