General Debate 28 August 2011

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Michael

Lovely day again, think I am going to repair the fence and mow the lawns. Everyone enjoy the sun.
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August 28, 2011 8:05am
Pete George

Here’s what I think would be a realistic outcome from the election with a good balance of power that reflects the current state of politics.

National 56
UnitedFuture 6
Maori Party 4
Act 4

Labour 40
Greens 10
Mana 1

Explained more: Election Predictions
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August 28, 2011 8:07am
Griff

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5519104/Fresh-land-claims-put-treaty-deadline-in-doubt

A recent Supreme Court ruling is threatening to blow out the Treaty of Waitangi settlement deadline.

The landmark “Haronga” case opened the door for new claims to be filed by smaller groups within an iwi.

Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson confirmed additional groups had applied for the return of land since the court’s May decision.

2014 yeah right
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August 28, 2011 8:13am
plebe

The choking has started,it seems the only thing the blacks can win these days is the haka.
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August 28, 2011 8:20am
jaba

just saw Sepuloni, Nash and Beaumont on the Nation. Sepuloni is a light weight politician, Nash continues the Labour lines of not answering questions and Beaumont should stick to her union roots
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August 28, 2011 8:35am
Viking2

Least We forget.

A gravy train of “full and final” settlements
http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly291.htm

Thanks Griff.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/news/5518987/Fresh-land-claims-put-treaty-deadline-in-doubt
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August 28, 2011 8:37am
wreck1080

Terrible game last night… All Blacks didn’t turn up, instead their bumbling twins appeared. Dropped balls, poor kicks, poor tactics.

That first half was just embarrassing.

Maybe it is just that the aussies are so good we cannot play our game.
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August 28, 2011 8:44am
MT_Tinman

Four more years boys, four more years!
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August 28, 2011 8:56am
Rodders

United Future ? Peter Dunne is committed to supporting National, anyway.
May as well vote National and cut out the middle man.
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August 28, 2011 8:58am
Scott Chris

Police Probe Finds Riot Police Are Rude Because They Need The Loo:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-world/2011/07/21/riot-police-are-rude-because-they-are-desperate-for-the-loo-115875-23285186/

More evidence perhaps that the cops should be relieved from the duty of investigating themselves.
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August 28, 2011 8:59am
Scott Chris

Pete George

You seem to have changed a bit since you entered politics. You seem less interested in the pursuit of truth and reason.
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August 28, 2011 9:02am
Pete George

Not sure why you say that Scott Chris.

The truth is you have to find the way you are mostly likely to get results, idealistic dreams get you nowhere unless you find a way to live them. One of the best ways of getting results is to be a part of government.

If you are referring to my prediction post, that is using (my) reasoning, what’s unreasonable about it?
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August 28, 2011 9:13am
Rodders

Pete – May I enquire as to how many times in the last three years, Peter Dunne has cast a parliamentary vote contrary to National?
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August 28, 2011 9:19am
Sonny Blount

All of you stop beating your wives!
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August 28, 2011 9:26am
Pete George

Rodders – I could guess but I don’t know off hand, I’d have to ask.

May I enquire as to how many times in the last three years, anyone in National has cast a parliamentary vote contrary to UnitedFuture? That question may emphasise your point, but…

And in this term alone:

– Transmission Gully getting the go-ahead
– The Game Animal Council which is set to go
– Income Sharing legislation before Parliament
– Payroll Giving introduced just 18 months ago to benefit charities which are already $3 million better off (and Telecom just signed up)
– Major personal tax cuts
– Gift Duty on the way out – in fact, I guided the bill that does away with it through Parliament just this week.

“I say it to demonstrate that being on the government benches is where you make a real difference – and surely that is the point of politics,” Mr Dunne said. “I have done that; UnitedFuture has done that.”

Doesn’t it make sense to have an influence in a party that has an influence in government?
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August 28, 2011 9:31am
mikenmild

Pete
I’m fascinated by your prediction that United could win 6 seats. Noting that Curia’s poll average has them at 0.3%, I’m wondering what will change to bring out such a dramatic resuscitation. Does that also mean that other parties might see huge changes in support between now and the election?
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August 28, 2011 9:32am
Pete George

mikenmild – there’s a lot of uncertain vote so there could be some big moves, especially with small parties.

Labour could hold or they could collapse late like National did in 2002.

In 2002 UnitedFuture were polling low until 10 days before the election, then a late surge (the worm turned the election) gave them 8 seats.

Every election is different, but I’d suggest small party options are generally much weaker than in 2002, Act and NZ First are not likely to be anywhere near as strong.

Isn’t it logical for a reliable centrist party that keeps performing (in government more than any other party) to be seen as a safe vote?
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August 28, 2011 9:51am
Scott Chris

Pete – I’m sure you’ll retain your integrity. The point I was making was that once you align yourself with a political movement, the thrust of your assertions will have a tendency to follow party policy lines. The emphasis changes from presenting your world view from an individual perspective to that of a homogenized ideology constrained by partisanship and consensus.

That is the nature of the game you have chosen to play.
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August 28, 2011 9:54am
Monique Watson

The obvious one that comes to mind is that UF voted against 3 strikes.
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August 28, 2011 9:54am
Inventory2

Perhaps Pete George thinks that the 10905 comments he has clocked up at Kiwiblog might be able to be swapped for party votes for UF; otherwise, sa Daryl Kerrigan would say “Tell him he’s dreamin'”
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August 28, 2011 9:56am
Pete George

Scott Chris – I agree but that’s the reality of democracy. One person cannot achieve anything in politics, you need people with you in the form of a party. As soon as you have more than one person involved you have to make compromises. Can’t avoid that.

It’s much easier to rise, it’s much easier to influence, and you have to compromise less if you do it with a small party.

UnitedFuture is small enough and open enough to be accessible to anyone. A single person could walk in off the street with a compelling cause or policy, be listened to, and for that to be adopted as party policy, and for that policy to become adopted by government. That’s one of the strengths of Kiwi democracy.
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August 28, 2011 10:00am
Inventory2

@ Pete; meant in the nicest way, but don’t you mean that a single person can walk in off the street with a compelling cause or policy and become a United Future candidate?
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August 28, 2011 10:03am
tom hunter

Good grief – are we really getting that wound up about our election already, especially this election? What’s next, fretting about the RWC?

Have a look at ZeroHedge and you’ll understand why it really does not matter:

Reuters data show that the USD230bn equivalent of European bank government-guaranteed debt will mature in 2012 and US banks will have more than USD122bn maturing.

Governments started guaranteeing banks’ debt issuance in September 2008 as capital and money markets froze after the failure of Lehman Brothers on September 15th. Most of the guarantees had a three-year maturity, although Spain and France allowed banks to issue up to five years.

“If you look back, the government-guaranteed schemes were all established around the same time and were limited in terms of maturities which means that a lot of them are coming up at the same time, making the banks’ maturity profile very frontloaded,” said Lukac.

Okay – so they just roll the loans over …

According to Thomson Reuters data, a mere USD7bn equivalent of senior was raised by European banks in July while the tally for August is even lower at just over USD1bn equivalent. This compounded poor volumes in June when USD17.4bn was sold, well below May’ s figure at USD41.2bn.

$USD1 billion? That’s chicken feed in this context. ZeroHedge puts it more succinctly:

Europe is now entirely shut out from capital markets, as confirmed by the following Morgan Stanley chart.

Which led to the new head of the IMF, former French financial minister, Christine Lagarde finally acknowledging the obvious:

“Bolstering banks’ balance sheets “is key to cutting the chains of contagion,” Lagarde said today in the text of remarks at the Federal Reserve’s annual forum in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Without an “urgent” recapitalization, “we could easily see the further spread of economic weakness to core countries, or even a debilitating liquidity crisis.”

Lagarde, a former French finance minister who took the helm at the Washington-based IMF in July, said recapitalization should be “substantial.” Banks should look for funds in the markets first and seek public funds if necessary. One way to provide capital could be through the European bailout fund, she said.”

By “European” she means “German”, and who’d want to be a German taxpayer right now?
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August 28, 2011 10:03am
Pete George

Haha I2 – but no, I’m much more ambitious than that.

In the US if you have a few billion $ you may get to influence politics. In New Zealand all you need to do is do your homework, do some hard yards and pick the right way to do it. Ordinary people can still be a part of it.
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August 28, 2011 10:04am
adze

Pete – just reading between the lines, are you thinking of joining United Future?
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August 28, 2011 10:07am
Inventory2

@ Adze; Pete is a candidate in Dunedin for UF; good luck to him
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August 28, 2011 10:09am
Pete George

I2 – about you candidate comment – that’s certainly possible and I think that’s a positive of our democracy and our country.

Albeit with some significant qualifications. Not just anyone. You have to be in synch with the party principles, you have to be in the right place at the right time, you have to have the drive and conviction and time.

And you have to have a bit of tolerance to getting a ribbing hence my Kiwiblog training 🙂
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August 28, 2011 10:09am
adze

IV2, wow – I didn’t know that.
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August 28, 2011 10:11am
Rodders

As far as United Future goes, this seems to sum it up for me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ChristianPoliticsNZ.png

That being said, anyone is preferable to Winston.
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August 28, 2011 10:14am
mikenmild

That’s cool Rodders, but a family tree that just finished with the present United Future would be even more interesting – it’s a real grab bag of all sorts. Remember Outdoor Recreation?
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August 28, 2011 10:19am
tom hunter

As far as United Future and Pete George are concerned I had already put this link up for PG during last year’s midterm US elections: Best of Both.
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August 28, 2011 10:21am
Pete George

Yep Rodders, there are definite votes in the “anyone but Winston” lobby.

Those United Christian connections are very much in the past, but the outdoors environmental fishing and hunting connections are quite strong. Practical ecology rather then green ideals.

Also there’s a strong push for regional representation which is more why I’m involved.

And you’ll find out that centrist doesn’t just mean moderate, there will be some strong voices on some very issues.
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August 28, 2011 10:35am
adze

Lol Rodders. That diagram reminds me of of a scene in Python’s Life of Brian : “Splitters!”

Seriously though, I don’t think I would vote UF even though I consider myself a centrist. But good luck PG.
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August 28, 2011 10:43am
Viking2

Well don’t forget the roots of one Peter Dunne. Labour to the core.
Which says ; that labour as it exists today is a s John Tamihere describes it with one or two exceptions e.g. Phil Goff. who is stuck where he is.
It also tells us that with Dunne and the National Party there is barely a tissue paper of difference and so that leads us to the conclusion that National have moved far enough left to be compatible with the Old Labour.
One can look at the make up of National these days and like the current Labour it is full of Gays, Maori, Pacific islanders etc. No better nor worse than Labour.

Therefore if you are thinking national is centrist then you are wrong. Your own measuring stick has moved left.
National are not centre right any,ore they are definitely in the socialist equation.

The problem for all of us is where is the right represented and by whom?
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August 28, 2011 10:45am
Monique Watson

Of course it’s a grab bag of sorts. We’re all individuals in UF and we welcome internal debate rather than promoting a cult-like mentality where there is only the One Way. IE Helen’s or the 1991 National intake Way. As for the Christian contingent: there was a reverse takeover of sorts attempted in 2002. The fundies parted ways over the repeal of Section 59 after a quick knife in Peter’s back. The kiddie floggers started a new political party and the good people remained. The Centre is a valid point on the political spectrum. There is ‘The left’, there is the Right and there is The Centre Path. Good on ya Pete. Here’s to progress and robust debate.
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August 28, 2011 10:47am
Rodders

adze, thanks for the reminder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS-0Az7dgRY

Just the thing for a Sunday morning 🙂
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August 28, 2011 10:48am
Viking2

John Key’s shameful public distancing of Douglas endorses an accepted perception that Douglas wrecked a perfectly good system and inflicted needless pain and misery in pursuit of some puritan ideology.

The reverse is true. We were brought to the brink of ruin by the economic Stalinism of the Muldoon administration, which reached its pinnacle of lunacy with a two-year wage and price freeze.

Our financial infrastructure was rotten, agriculture was in a shambles, productivity was declining and getting a car in East Berlin was only marginally more difficult than obtaining one in New Zealand.

Sir Roger remains in Parliament for a few more months at least. The current Government would be well-served to remember his legacy, and ask themselves if in 25 years anyone will praise them for their courage and vision.
By Damien Grant

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10747818

Again this demonstrates just how socialist National have become. Left of the left. So sad.
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August 28, 2011 10:53am
Scott Chris

“That being said, anyone is preferable to Winston.”

That being said Rodders, I have a mental image of Winston’s muckrakers trawling through Pete’s 10,911 contributions on Kiwiblog in search of political ammo.

http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/india/images/ragpicker.jpg
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August 28, 2011 10:53am
Viking2

Monique Watson (65) Says:
August 28th, 2011 at 10:47 am

There is ‘The left’, there is the Right and there is The Centre Path. Good on ya Pete. Here’s to progress and robust debate.

Yes that correct. Problem is that there is no longer any right representing that section of the voters. Everything is left of UF.
So much for MMP that you all complain about.
The most unrepresented group is the right.
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August 28, 2011 10:56am
tom hunter

I have a mental image of Winston’s muckrakers trawling through Pete’s 10,911 contributions on Kiwiblog in search of political ammo.

They won’t find anything.
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August 28, 2011 10:56am
adze

Heh, yeah I tend to agree tom.
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August 28, 2011 11:04am
Rodders

As if anyone connected to NZ First would know how to find this website.
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August 28, 2011 11:09am
wat dabney

The state sector, the ‘real looters’

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sBQcW1GB5mI/Tll5CBOa_JI/AAAAAAAAT-4/ptK6mqkydBI/s1600/Booker+looter3.jpg
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August 28, 2011 11:24am
Monique Watson

On a few points made by previous posters:
PG, we do still have a Christian connection, in fact I wouldn’t like to distance ourselves completely. It’s a certain rigid ideology that has dropped off. Many a good idea has been sparked off from Christianity. Myself I would say I am Chri-Bud-Hed 🙂 A mix of Christian, Buddhist and Hedonist. Like most NZer’s I was raised with a Christian heritage, believe in helping others and have been to church in the last year for one reason or another (the Christian component) , I like to research other faiths and realise I am responsible for my own actions (the Buddhist component) and am a good part hedonist (party party party suck bite suck bite. it’s no good gritting your teeth all the way through life, you have to wear stuff lightly and let your hair down occasionally.
Viking2 You can represent the views of both the right and left in one political party. Taxes have consistently dropped while Peter has been Minister of Revenue. Our ideal is a low – 25% flat tax rate eventually. Me I’m right wing on justice, left wing on education. Which Right view rather than party would you say is underrepresented? I think we have to start considering representation on specific issues rather than across the board ideologies.
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August 28, 2011 11:28am
wat dabney

A bit more background to the demolition of AGW this week.

“Weeks ago, CERN formerly decided to muzzle Mr. Kirby and other members of his team to avoid “the highly political arena of the climate change debate,” telling them “to present the results clearly but not interpret them” and to downplay the results by “mak[ing] clear that cosmic radiation is only one of many parameters.” The CERN study and press release is written in bureaucratese and the version of Mr. Kirkby’s study that appears in the print edition of Nature censored the most eye-popping graph — only those who know where to look in an online supplement will see the striking potency of cosmic rays in creating the conditions for seeding clouds.”

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/08/26/lawrence-solomon-science-now-settled/
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August 28, 2011 11:35am
hj

“That being said, anyone is preferable to Winston.”
….
the good thing about Winston is that he will go against the consensus of the political elite.

I quote Chris Trotter again ~ ‘essentially, the entire Norwegian political class, aided by the news media, came together to mount an effective political boycott of the Progressive Party’. Other political parties declared it persona non grata, and as a consequence ‘upwards of one quarter of the population found its political beliefs and aspirations deliberately excluded from government’ for the indefinite future.

So in Norway, then, a quarter of the population is more or less permanently denied any participation in government and legislation, because their objections to what is happening to their own society are considered by the other political parties and their supporters to be out of the question and beyond even the slightest consideration. In the name of tolerance of other points of view, of course.
http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2011/08/david-round-tragic-lessons-from-norway.html

so when the govt says “immigration benefits everyone” David Cunliffe thinks that more immigration is a ‘must for economic growth’, and Keith Locke says
“anti immigration sentiment has no place in the Green Party”, while the Savings Working Group says:

“Migration is another issue that the government should investigate further,” the working group said. “There are indications that high immigration rates have pushed up government spending, house prices and business borrowing, and prevented necessary adjustments to the economy.”

that only leaves NZ First to argue the issue (if it were allowed on the table).

P.S when Winston spoke of a “tsunami of migrants” Mary Wilson asked ..”should we even be reporting it?”
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August 28, 2011 11:42am
Zapper

We win the tri-nations we get told it’s irrelevant in world cup year and we’re peaking too early, we lose and we’re chokers who have no hope of winning the world cup…gotta love NZ rugby fans sometimes 🙂

Meaningless stat time:

The tri-nations winner has never gone on to win the world cup. Last night’s game means nothing with regards to the big prize.

I just hope the match review panel throw the book at Cooper. His cheapshots are getting out of hand.
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August 28, 2011 11:47am
Rodders

Apologies hj. I had forgotten that Winston has at least one fan here.
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August 28, 2011 11:48am
hj

wat dabney: “all looked over by machines of loving grace”.
You are just a borer beetle in the house that makes up the body of evidence for AGW ; you won’t bring the house down.
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August 28, 2011 11:49am
adze

hj – NZ First’s main problem (but by no means their only problem) is the flawed character of Winston. I’m embarassed to admit I voted for him in 1996, but his disgraceful about-turn in that election alone was enough to warrant his banishment to the political wilderness – let alone his later shenanigans.
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August 28, 2011 11:51am
hj

Apologies hj, I had forgotten that Winston has at least one fan here.
…..
Comment from Chris Trotters blog:
The primary difference between both parties appears to be John Key.

I suspect this blog provides a greater forum for political debate than our house of representatives; a place where all actions are stage managed, and MP’s are tasked to ‘stay on message’ or risk sanction.

Is it any wonder that most Kiwi’s have tuned out of politics?

Neither party has articulated a coherent economic or social vision for New Zealand that is underpinned by a sustainable and measurable strategic plan.

http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2011/08/clares-cri-de-coeur.html

You all hate Winston because he is rude: he talks about things he isn’t supposed to! 😯
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August 28, 2011 11:54am
Rodders

Personally, I hate Winston because he is an integrity-free zone. I can’t speak for everyone else.
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August 28, 2011 12:04pm
wreck1080

@viking:

the greatest travesty is that a large number of New Zealands felt they deserved to drive the country into bankruptcy greek style.

It’s all ok when someone else is paying the bills until it comes time to pay the piper. Douglas saved NZ , and it’s unfortunate the current crop of politicians are embarrassed by this. Although, I think the Key and co. privately know the truth but is politically damaging to admit so.

The attitude of entitlement in this country stinks. Along similar lines in todays Herald about how foreign labour is used for fruit picking because Zealanders refuse such work. Disgraceful when there are plenty of Kiwis on the dole.

It’s about time the dole is withheld from people who refuse to work — and I don’t care if they have to move locations to find work. And, I no longer care if people prefer to starve themselves and their families because they are too lazy to work.
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August 28, 2011 12:14pm
Pete George

Scott Chris – I’m well aware my comments could be trawled, actually, that already happens on The Standard and they try and diss me because I said “them” instead of “us” which is supposed to have some deep hidden meaning or something. It was funny, because they tried this yesterday, the day after I heard Cunliffe in person complaining about every utterance of Goff being picked over by a band of Nats.

I’m comfortable with anything I’ve posted, I’d stand up and justify any of it. I won’t necessarily agree with it all, quite a lot of posting is for promoting discussion and testing ideas rather than statements of permanent fact.
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August 28, 2011 12:16pm
Viking2

Monique Watson (66) Says:
August 28th, 2011 at 11:28 am

left wing on education

Either you are a school teacher or you fail to see the benefits of removing the trade union shackles from our children.
I suppose along with the Nats. you also resent paying young people to go to work preferring to leave them on some welfasre scrap heap whilst that satisfies your ego.
UF voted against youth rates. Thats’ stark bolock naked Labour Lefty dogma. suckholing the Nats. Not a position of principle and what else has he slimed over we don’t know about.

As for tax cuts.
We are barely back where we were when Douglas finished after Langes little brain fart. The Nats have increased taxation every year they have been there. All the Dunny has done is to sweep up the loose crap around the edges. No real change there.
And not likely to be whilst he is beholding to them for his seat.

You will have to do better than that.
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August 28, 2011 12:21pm
mikenmild

Rodders
‘Hate’ might be too strong, I’d prefer ‘despise’. The problem with NZ First is that it is just about Winston – there is no coherent policy apart from what Winston thinks will gain traction at a particular moment. One way of thinking about a political party is to imagine it continuing without its present leader. That’s impossible in the case of NZ First (and United or Mana too), so in that respect it cannot really be regarded as a political party.
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August 28, 2011 12:21pm
big bruv

So will the choke come in the semi final of the quarter final?

No leadership from McCheat, no direction from the trio of Canterbury coaches and another loss in world cup year.

Seeing as I am being forced to fund this minor world sporting tournament I suppose I can take enjoyment from the inevitable choke coming the way of the NZ team, what I am not looking forward to is the national embarrassment that will follow such a loss and the constant bullshit from the NZRU and Martin Sneddon about how great the event is for NZ.

Thank goodness we will never get to host this event again.
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August 28, 2011 12:24pm
Viking2

wreck1080 (1,756) Says:
August 28th, 2011 at 12:14 pm

The attitude of entitlement in this country stinks. Along similar lines in todays Herald about how foreign labour is used for fruit picking because Zealanders refuse such work. Disgraceful when there are plenty of Kiwis on the dole.

Question. Who creates that attitude???
Is it politicians who have unbridled power at election time?

Is it politicians that when elected then proceed to behave like feral inbreds and trible vote to suit their power brokers and money men rather than voting to do as the title suggest, i.e. Representative of the Electorate.

Until we change the Hoiuse Rules nothing will change.
Remove whipping and institute e-referendum. 2014
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August 28, 2011 12:26pm
mikenmild

big bruv

I’m wondering whether the knock McCaw took early on played a part, not to mention losing the other two loosies to injury as well.

I though they came back well in the second half though and conceivably could have won.

Guildford may have played himself back down the pecking order. Maybe Dagg is alo a genuine contender to replace Muliaina at the back.

I can’t wait for the tournament to start. Thanks NZ for backing it so generously!
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August 28, 2011 12:31pm
side show bob

Pete George, do you have the cool hairstyle like possum head?

Off to the rugby soon. I do hope you will all watch the mighty Naki pluck some Magpies
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August 28, 2011 12:58pm
Pete George

ssb – was that deliberate asking about my hairdo in one sentence and then mentioning plucked in the next?
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August 28, 2011 1:03pm
Scott Chris

Pete George – I think you need only be concerned about the muckrakers if you happen to have taken a strong stance in the past over issues which may be diametrically opposed to UF policy. For example, if you had at any time promoted decriminalization of soft drugs, this would be at odds with Dunne’s prohibition philosophy. (not that I know of you having promoted decriminalization, but you strike me as a pragmatic sort of person)

Having a public record of your opinions so accessible does open you up to heavy scrutiny, but you are well served by your moderate outlook I think.
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August 28, 2011 1:10pm
Scott Chris

mikenmild – a shame SBW wasn’t on the bench, as the All Blacks seemed to lack penetration and quick second phase play (ie SBW offload). Could have covered blindside as well.

McCaw’s decision making still worries me. When you’re behind with less than a minute to go, it is not the best time to go into a huddle.

Incidentally, if there’s a 90% chance of winning a quarter-final, 70% chance of winning a semi and 60% chance of winning the final, the All Blacks chances of winning the whole tournament are still only 38%. Doesn’t mean we aren’t the best team, just that knock out tournaments are a bit of a lottery.
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August 28, 2011 1:24pm
kaya

I watched Q+A thsi morning. It was amazing watching the Federated Farmers president getting his nuts handed to him on a plate by the long haired, bearded greenie (presumably) professor. The interesting part is the FF dude didn’t have a valid argument against the fact that dairy farms are responsible for huge environmental damage to rivers and lakes.
He kept saying that the money generated was great and the only thing keeping the country going right now which sort of made sense until it was pointed out that the only advantage NZ has over other countries is the “clean green’ image. Take away that marketing gem and there would be no reason to buy from us.

It’s worth going to watch “On Demand”.
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August 28, 2011 1:27pm
Monique Watson

Viking2 (4,943) Says:
August 28th, 2011 at 12:21 pm

I’m not a teacher, I have five kids. I try to do a good job just like in any other profession and that entails acquainting myself with educational policies. I happily entrust their education to the unions. Because shock horror, 99% of all the teachers I have ever come into contact with have been competent and reasoned. Not a teat sucker amongst them. I’m aware there are those less competent. Let the community run the schools with a proficient principle and mutual respect ensures good performance. If a principle has any guts in the face of the community he’ll refer the substandard off for professional development or pigeonhole them in a role that suits them. As for the individual no-one likes to battle on in a role that doesn’t suit them.
Kids shouldn’t be assessed against the National Standards; this is meaningless data provision, at least until the age of eight. School decile also dovetails with performance. They would be a useful tool to use on teachers though bahahahahahaa I won’t get any points from the lefties for saying that, but school leadership teams could use monitor the ability of the teacher to assess students against the standard to see if the teacher knows how to improve their performance and provide feedback. These are just ideas I’ve thrown around from a parents perspective but are not necessarily representative of UnitedFuture policy.
I’ve had yoofs who are brilliant and quite happily paid them the adult minimum. The pay rate doesn’t bother me as long as they are proficient enough to free me up to improve my income from my business. In my experience If they are on the welfare scrap heap they need to be networking just like anyone else until they find a job.
What say you about these issues PG?
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August 28, 2011 2:34pm
Pauleastbay

@Rodders
Personally, I hate Winston because he is an integrity-free zone. I can’t speak for everyone else.

Well you can speak for me on that drunken dwarf
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August 28, 2011 2:40pm
MT_Tinman

Monique, your posts remind me of water-woman, bloody near incomprehensible however I’ll match your 99% competency with 99% incompetency and time servers based on both my childrens’ teachers and those I (frequently) meet in the course of my business.

The only real job of a teacher is to instil the love of learning in their pupils.

In that all but the exceptional fail.
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August 28, 2011 3:45pm
kowtow

V2
The House Rules ,Immigration and Rates of Pay

The rule is shut up and get back in your racist box. There can be no debate about immigration,which we all know is good for us,we become diverse and multicultural.We are a multicultural society,all the party leaders say so. No definitionns ,no discussion ,it’s a simple fact,like it or lump it.Immigration is particularly good for the Pacific Islands don’t you know….Trevor said so on the asparagus show.But is it good for NZ?

Immigration from the third world is also good for employers as there will never be a labour shortage and as long as you can import migrants you can always depress wages.
As wages in those sectors of the economy will never rise there will not be much incentive for welfare dependant New Zealanders to get off their chuffs and do some work for themselves.Anyway why should they. It is simply wrong for other people to make judgemnts about them,it’s called benficiary bashing and that’s inappropriate.

The rules are understood and enforced by NZ media.The main political parties are striving to show they understand the rules and show off the diversity in their parties by displaying MPs of diverse backgrounds too.

Dawn raids anyone?
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August 28, 2011 3:57pm
Viking2

Kowtow. what the fuck are you smoking? your post is incomprehensible.
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August 28, 2011 4:58pm
Monique Watson

MT_Tinman (1,500) Says:
August 28th, 2011 at 3:45 pm

Monique, your posts remind me of water-woman, bloody near incomprehensible however I’ll match your 99% competency with 99% incompetency and time servers based on both my childrens’ teachers and those I (frequently) meet in the course of my business.

The only real job of a teacher is to instil the love of learning in their pupils.

In that all but the exceptional fail.

@MT Tinman
I am glad my posts are being read. Thank you for your feedback. I am a busy person and need to watch my grammar.
I was trying to make the following points about education:
1. I am a parent and try to treat it like a profession.
2. In this capacity I do a lot of research around matters that affect my children’s education.
3. Most teachers I know are exceptional everyday.
4. Where teachers aren’t exceptional, we should employ measures to discover where they are falling short and assist them.
5. National Standards are not the holy grail of educational achievement but could be useful in improving teacher performance.

Finally: I wouldn’t allow my children to remain in a classroom with teachers I had no faith in. I am sorry you felt you had no alternative but (I assume) to stay with teachers you were dissatisfied with.
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August 28, 2011 5:11pm
wikiriwhis business

The dole is being with held from people who can’t find work. that is the real truth. Creating a fourth tier of no income citizens that aren’t reflected in statistics and which the media ignor.

Now…your problem is coming now National is lifting govt guarantee on savings. They never told us that during the election.

And when the world wide recession hits next year your savings could simply disappear. Then when you can’t find work you’re going to be feeling very sorry for yourself when you’re treated like a problem by Winz.
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August 28, 2011 5:26pm
Other_Andy

“The dole is being with held from people who can’t find work. that is the real truth. Creating a fourth tier of no income citizens that aren’t reflected in statistics and which the media ignor.”

How is it possible not to find work?
I have never in my life been unemployed. While I have not always got the job I wanted, I have always been able to find work.
I have worked as a cleaner, a meatpacker, a shelf stacker, a welder etc. in between jobs.
Four weeks ago I told my 16 year old son to get an after school job to earn some money.
He has been working for the last 3 1/2 weeks.

Can’t find work?
I find that very hard to believe.
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August 28, 2011 5:38pm
Pete George

Wellington zoo staff have assured the nation that when they release a penguin tomorrow they won’t intervene.
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August 28, 2011 6:16pm
kowtow

V2,
You’re not strong on irony ?
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August 28, 2011 6:17pm
reid

How is this for brilliant marketing?
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August 28, 2011 6:52pm
nasska

It was late at night as the Pope, who had departed this world, was approaching the gates of heaven. There was no one around, but there was a small shack just prior to the gates with a light on. The Pope stepped into the shack and startled a young man half asleep sitting at a small grey desk.
“Excuse me” said the Pope, “but I’m supposed to check in here with St. Peter, but there is no one at the gate.” “Yea, Yea” said the young man, “Where are your orders?”
“I don’t have any orders, ” said the Pope.
“Well it’s too late to check in tonight anyhow.” said the young man, “Just go around to the back of the building, find a bunk and dump your gear in a locker. St. Peter will be here in the morning and you can check in then.”
The Pope grabs his stuff and walks around the building only to find a WWII style open bay barracks. The bunks are stacked three high and the only vacant one is all the way at the end of the building, and its on top. He drags his stuff to the end of the building, but there is no locker for him. He takes a deep breath, thinks about it for a minute and decides this is just one final test. He crawls up into the bunk and falls asleep.
Suddenly he is awakened by a loud commotion outside the barracks. As he walks outside he sees a huge crowd of cherubs cheering and clapping as a gold convertible limousine approaches. As it draws nearer, the Pope sees a bloke dressed in an expensive suit sitting in the back seat with a beautiful angel on each arm, a glass of champagne in his hand and he is smoking one of the biggest cigars the Pope has ever seen. The Pope turns to the young man who checked him in and asks, “Who is that guy?” “A Political pollster,” the young man replies.
The Pope says, “I don’t get it. I worked hard all of my life to do God’s work on earth. As a young man I studied hard at the seminary, as a priest I laboured hard to tend my flock and provide guidance when they strayed. I struggled as a bishop to serve the church and as Pope, I was able to attract more followers of the faith. Yet, when I reach heaven, St. Peter isn’t here to greet me. I have to carry my own luggage. I’m stuck in the top bunk of a shed and I don’t even have a locker for my bags!”
The young man looks at the Pope and says. “Look, we get a Pope every 20-30 years, but he’s the only Political pollster who has ever made it!”
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August 28, 2011 7:00pm
Elaycee

No reaction yet to the article in the NZ Herald today about a teacher who taped the mouths of two kids closed because they were “over-exuberant” …. ?

No reaction to this either? “Another child in the same class at Mercury Bay Area School in Whitianga was made to sit in the middle of a circle while other kids said why they didn’t like them”.

And yet this teacher (named by the Herald as Pat Doube) is paid the same as a competent teacher (or even an outstanding one).

What a joke.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10747938
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August 28, 2011 7:02pm
Viking2

Queensland deadbeat dads’ tax returns targeted to recover outstanding child support payments

Renee Viellaris
From: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
August 28, 2011 12:00AM
114 comments
INVESTIGATORS chasing fathers for failing to pay child support have seized more than $25.5 million from men in Queensland – the nation’s capital for deadbeat dads.

Almost 28,000 tax refunds owed to parental deserters for the 2010-11 financial year have been intercepted by the Australian Taxation Office in a bid to claw back money owed to families. That puts the state at the top of the league of shame for seized tax returns.

Any chance we could do this and have the same accord with Aussie? And we should include a few others like dead beat Mum’s and various other Govt. creditors.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/money/money-matters/queensland-deadbeat-dads-tax-returns-targeted-to-recover-outstanding-child-support-payments/story-fn3hskur-1226123625724
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August 28, 2011 7:08pm
Pete George

No reaction yet to the article in the NZ Herald today about a teacher who taped the mouths of two kids closed because they were “over-exuberant” …. ?

I’ll react.

That happened to me in Primer One. The teacher (don’t remember her name) warned us to be quiet “or else”. A few minutes later she stopped teaching, took some sellotape and walked around the class. I wondered who was in trouble, and was a bit surprisd to discover it was me.

Anyway I learnt my lesson, ever since then I have never spoken out of turn.
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August 28, 2011 7:17pm
reid

And yet this teacher (named by the Herald as Pat Doube) is paid the same as a competent teacher (or even an outstanding one).

It sounds a terribly sad case actually. I’m sure Mr Doube of course now both regrets and understands what he did. I’m equally sure the public hysteria over this will be shrill loud relentless sensational at least if the media can help it, it will be. See through that and you see the human tragedy of a guy not being cruel but just doing what he thought was OK. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting he should have nor had a right to, do what he did. All I’m saying is: facts so far = no evidence of malicious intent.

However, the injustice is, this is the precise angle the MSM will unthinkingly play up in their blind hysterical usual way while the idiots lap it up and nod their heads and they do that cause why? To sell product that’s why. Yes we know, but why else?

What’s that? No other reason. Just spin bullshit sensationalism, for money. I see.

Sad thing is: this is issue #107,546,879,653 where they’ve done this exact same thing, and neither they, nor the people who “buy more product” remain any the wiser.

Tragic thing is: Doube’s other qualities as a teacher have now been totally subsumed by this upcoming media marketing strategy and is that a fair summary of one chapter of a man’s life?
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August 28, 2011 7:31pm
nasska

Apparently, Colonel Gaddafi’s gone into hiding and has surrounded himself with forty virgins.
Well, at least we know he isn’t hiding in South Auckland.
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August 28, 2011 7:44pm
Scott Chris

Did you know that heaven and hell are actually right next to each other?
They are seperated by a big chain-link fence. Well, one day hell was
having a big party and it got a little out of hand. God heard the ruckus
and arrived to find his fence completely smashed by the wild partiers.
He called the devil over and said “Look, Satan, you have to rebuild
this fence.” Satan agreed. The next day God noticed that the devil had
completely rebuilt the fence…but it was 2 feet further into heaven
than before.

“Satan!” beckoned God. “You have to take that fence down
and put it back where it belongs!”
“Yeah? What if I don’t?” replied the devil.
“I’ll sue you if I have to,” answered God.
“Sure,” laughed Satan. “Where are you going to find a lawyer?”
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August 28, 2011 7:46pm
nasska

A lawyer was sitting in his office late one night, when the Devil appeared before him. The Devil told the lawyer, “I have a proposition for you. You can win every case you try, for the rest of your life. Your clients will adore you, your colleagues will stand in awe of you, and you will make embarrassing sums of money. All I want in exchange is your soul, your wife’s soul, your children’s souls, the souls of your parents, grandparents, and parents-in-law, and the souls of all of your friends and law partners.”
The lawyer thought about this for a moment, then asked, “Okay, what’s the catch?”
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August 28, 2011 7:53pm
Mick Mac

Maybe he should have called the parents in and taped their mouths up!
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August 28, 2011 8:31pm
reid

Well, at least we know he isn’t hiding in South Auckland.

How do we know that, nasska?
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August 28, 2011 8:44pm
Hurf Durf

Bad stuff gone down in Libya, 53 burned bodies of executed anti-Gadaffi civilians found in a warehouse. Check out the video for the kind of stuff not seen since Rwanda.
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August 28, 2011 8:52pm
reid

The head of the rebel forces in Tripoli has command over life and death.

Is he Al-Qa’ida?

If so, what does that mean?

http://tarpley.net/2011/08/27/al-qaeda-commander-of-natos-bloody-reign-of-terror-in-tripoli-is-the-monster-abdel-hakim-belhadj/

He gets totally carried away here at the end, but listen to the first part, and look into those names he talks about.
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August 28, 2011 9:30pm
Bill_S

Reid, I think you are right that people just read an article like that and make assumptions. But this is what you have done too, only you assume innocence while others assume guilt. The reality is somewhere in the middle.

Mrs Pat Doube is a woman who has been teaching for many years. For many years she has been known for her “tough” stance on naughty behaviour amongst the seven year old kids she teaches. So far so good.

But for many years there have been rumours around the town about cruel and unusual punishments used by this teacher.

There are ongoing issues at that school. It was under statutory management. See here: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10748474

In my opinion the problem is the PC “Board of Trustees” model, where the community board gets to choose not to discipline the teacher (Patricia Doube) even though parents want something done. No wonder we have so much child abuse.

As for Pete George, I don’t think what happened to you was the same. For a start this doesn’t sound like simple sellotape, does it? “Madison was left with red marks around her mouth and has been reluctant to go back to school. The little girl said it was painful when the tape was ripped off her mouth.” (from the original article)
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September 2, 2011 6:27pm

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