General Debate 6 July 2011

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment104

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (104)

Login to comment or vote

snowy

Fe Fi Fo…FIRST!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:37am
labrator

At least when DPF is on UK time he gets the GD started on time!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:39am
axeman

Mataati.

Mōrena.

Kia ora koutou.

(Oops. Make that third)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:44am
Manolo

More Maori patronising stuff from a pack of of socialist teachers. Instead, it should be asking: who is failing who? Where are the parents of the students concerned?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/5238764/Maori-pupils-needs-not-met-by-system

“The New Zealand schooling system is based on the Victorian model from England … a lot of schools don’t cater for them to be Maori, it caters for them to be a Maori pupil in a different environment and they’ve got to work out where they fit in, and in some cases they work out, `Actually, I don’t fit in’.”

While some schools embraced Maori culture, it could take up to two years for some Maori pupils to adjust. “Expecting Maori kids to come into a mainstream school that doesn’t acknowledge their Maoridom … is a discriminatory practice.”

Pfftttt.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:50am
krazykiwi

Fundanomics – The free market simplified by Roy W. Spencer, PhD

In Chapter 1, A Tale of Two Neanderthals, Borgg and Glogg are the tribe’s firestarters, who get the idea to invent firesticks (matches). This leads to a system of trading with a neighboring tribe which has many great hunters, and as a result the inventors’ tribe never goes hungry again.

But the favored treatment the inventors receive from the tribe’s elders later leads to resentment in the tribe, and people forget how much better off they all are than before — even the poorest among them. Technology and prosperity might change, but human nature does not.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:56am
Pauleastbay

Manalo

That article is simply appalling, drivel that should not even use up bandwidth,
Typical school teachers using Maori this time for their own ends.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:57am
mikenmild

Manolo

This part is a classic:
‘The use of the Maori education strategy Ka Hikitia, which was introduced in 2008, was limited…Mr Simpson had heard of teachers who had read it three times and still not understood what it meant…’.
Probably similar to most ‘strategy’ documents produced by the government.

The real laugh though is Anne Tolley dismissing any concerns and then raving on about national standards, again.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 7:43am
Elaycee

@Manolo – our education system is simply stuffed – the root cause is that it is dominated by socialists with fixed agendas.

The best thing that could happen would be for the Minister to directly link funding to the implementation of National Standards. And if the rumour is correct….. Hah!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 8:12am
joana

”Who is failing who?” Really? That should be ”Who is failing whom?”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 8:34am
kowtow

Key and co say we are “multicultural”. That should be multi ethnic.

TVNZ,TV3 ,RNZ,the pollies and the useless commissions tell us to tolerate the intolerant.

Time to stand up for our own culture and values .
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 8:53am
Murray

If you do not tollerate the symbols of intollerance and opression you are a racist.

Okily dokily, I’m a racist. Shit we’ve all be called racist for so many things so often that its lost all meaning anyway.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:02am
Pete George

Time to stand up for our own culture and values .

What is “our own” culture and values? I’m a southern New Zealander, but I have experienced different cultures to my own in different parts of New Zealand.

I value tolerance of differnt cultures and religions to my own preferences.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:06am
mikenmild

Pete

Messages of tolerance are not often tolerated on Kiwiblog. Neither are statements such as NZ has a really good education system.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:12am
Pete George

I value a fair system of policing and justice that only takes action against people if they act against the law, and a system that doesn’t act on prejudiced paranoia.

I don’t value blanket opression of a whole group of people based on a minority’s actions elsewhere in the world.

I’m bemused by the switch from “reds under the bed” to “Imans under the eiderdown”. Some people seem to just like to jump on the persecution bandwagon.

I’m aware of the dangers of some Muslims and some factions of Islam, buy I won’t condemn 1.5 billion people based on the extreme actions a few thousand.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:14am
mikenmild

Pete

Cue replies along the lines of ‘Islam is an evil cult’!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:17am
SouthernRight

Why is the media getting all excited about Labours possible tax plans, in fact why is Labour getting excited. Mana is more likely to get traction with his hone heke tax than Labour is likely to get voted in.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:24am
Viking2

Pete, the reason for Reds under the Bed was that the Reds didn’t like the Immans under the eiderdown. And still don’t. They having been fighting the cult for about 1000 years now. Will it come to be that the only countries in the world that drive those Immans out will be, China, Russia and India and Japan.
Maybe those old civilizations know more than we seem too.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:24am
tom hunter

Murray – I thought you’d appreciate this outstanding example of reporting on the military – Super Sniper?.

Even after years of this I still manage to be surprised at the gullibility of modern journalists – at least if the story fits some preconceptions. I suspect the following was the hook:

Every one of those horrifies me regularly because they were somebody’s children, somebody’s husband or father.”

Riiiiiight.

As Blackfive says: something tells me this isn’t going to turn out well for “Rock”..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:26am
Viking2

MMif you like it soooo much go and live in one of their territories.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:26am
Pete George

Along with the rest, like Communism, Corporatism, Bibleism, Brashism, Bradfiordism, Harawiraism etc.

We need to target the actual, real problems and not just keep resorting to the blanket diss.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:28am
smttc

Milkmilo, do you deny that Islam is a threat to western civilisation?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:29am
mikenmild

smttc

Western civilisation seems to be rolling along fine over the last few thousand years.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:31am
Elaycee

“NZ has a really good education system.” Hahahaha – that line is as good as the other jokes posted on KB.

Fact: We have increasing numbers of kids / young adults leaving school lacking basic numeracy and literacy skills.
Fact: We have resistance from Unions to being able to benchmark our kids.
Fact: We have a race based quota system that allows non-achievers to enrol for higher education.
Fact: We are not supposed to reward outstanding teachers for extraordinary results.
Fact: We discourage excellence and encourage mediocrity.

A great education system??? Cue: Tui billboard.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:33am
tom hunter

Funny thing about those Reds under the Bed: many of them really were nasty, subversive bastards doing everything they could to bring on the glorious socialist revolution in Western countries. And they had lots of help from the ever-present useful idiots.

Moreover, some of them are still around and still as nasty as ever – How the Dutch Gaza Flotilla Backfired Politically:

The Dutch blog KeesjeMaduraatje was one of the first to publish material about extremist elements in the second Gaza flotilla, revealing that Free Gaza Holland’s chairman, Rob Groenhuizen, was a convicted communist extremist who used to be a member of Dutch groups affiliated with the German terrorist Rote Armee Fraktion.

Nice. Note that bit about the Dutch blog: not a reporter for a standard media source, though they moved quickly enough once the story was out.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:35am
Pete George

I saw an interesting episode last night of Who Do You Think You Are? featuring Dr Who (aka David Tennant). He’s from Glasgow but was very moved to learn of his family connections with clearances on the Isle of Mull.

He was also quite shocked to learn of family connections in the Unionists of Derry/Londonderry. It highlighted how deapseated the tensions have been between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland for a long time, and how they are still quite prevalent. I was also surprised to hear that there are similar but less drastic rivalries in Glasgow.

Suspicions and accusations between religions have been a major source of friction and intolerance, for about as long as when the second god was thought of.

We are very fortunate that in New Zealand we have (mostly) a very easy intermingling of different religious and non-religious peoples and beliefs.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:38am
mikenmild

Elaycee

Fact: NZ’s literacy and numeracy levels are not declining and international comparisons show giood achievement by NZ kids
Fact: teachers oppose educationally unsound, vague and unnecessary ‘national standards’
Fact: schemes to encourage diversity in higher education admissions don’t limit opportunities for others
Fact: good teachers get recognised and rewarded
Fact: we celebrate excellence in educaiton every day.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:40am
RightNow

“Fact: we celebrate excellence in educaiton every day.” = my vote for quote of the day
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:44am
mikenmild

RightNow

Thought I’d edited my comment – bugger!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:49am
Elaycee

““Fact: we celebrate excellence in educaiton every day.” = my vote for quote of the day”

Hahahaha 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:07am
Elaycee

“schemes to encourage diversity in higher education admissions don’t limit opportunities for others”

Bollocks. A quota system is in place and is so daft that even one university professor is trying to get it changed.

Fact: About 10% of medical school places are reserved for Maori and Pacific students under the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme. The total number of ‘slots’ available is not unlimited, so some kids can miss out to another applicant who has grossly inferior school results, but gets admitted because they’re part of this race based quota system.

The wood is separated from the chaff after year one exams, but by then, some kids have opted for another professional career.

http://healthsci.otago.ac.nz/admissions/micn2011.html

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/4523101/Medical-school-test-under-fire
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:26am
Elaycee

“literacy and numeracy levels are not declining… …giood achievement ”

As I said, our literacy skills are pathetic…..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:29am
side show bob

Caught some of Marae last Sunday. The panel was getting all excited by the up coming Te Reo week. The general consensuses of the panel, especially Willy Jackson, was that Maori should be compulsory in schools and if Willy had his way all New Zealanders would be speaking the Reo. It just so happened the following item on Marae was whether woman should be aloud to speak in the Marae. I had to laugh, first we have a group of Maori academics/ personalities, males and females calling for making Maori compulsory and in the same breath they are arguing whether woman can speak the language in the Marae . For fucks sake what a joke. So we are all to learn Maori but only 50% of the population will be aloud to use it in certain situations. They want to sort their own shit out first before they subject all of us to this silliness.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:33am
Manolo

..especially Willy Jackson, was that Maori should be compulsory in schools..

The same Jackson who send his kids to an exclusive private school in Auckland while praising state education? The same hypocrite who chose a private hospital when ill, instead of the wait-listed public health system he proposes?

The socialist and Maori radical Willy Jackson has zero credibility. In fact, the man is a joke and a posseur.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:41am
mikenmild

side show

I think you conflate two separate issues – progress on supporting te reo does not need to wait for progress on women’s rights on some (not all) marae

Elaycee

To be fair, you have picked on my weakest argument. I’m no fan of quotas, which in some instances have proved to do more harm than good. Generally, measures to improve the numbers of Maori studying medicine, for example, are good. I’m not sure, in this case, whether those 1st year admission standards actually crowd out many people who would otherwise go on to medical careers.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:42am
Manolo

Race should have nothing to do with the admission process to medical school or any other profession. Aspiring candidates should be selected on intellectual and academic achievements, not skin colour.

Reversed racism does not work.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:47am
Elaycee

milkmilo – not “admission standards” but admission QUOTAS.

There is a big difference.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:47am
mikenmild

Elaycee

A ‘quota’ would imply a minimum number of students selected by ethnicity irrespective of academic ability. Is that what happens?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:53am
Falafulu Fisi

Mike said…
progress on women’s rights

And what the heck is women’s rights sir? Is this a redundant concept or not? If not , then why not?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:55am
mikenmild

Falafulu

Er, by women’s rights I guess I mean the right to equality of treatment, ie enjoyment of rights undifferentiated by considerations of gender.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 11:04am
Falafulu Fisi

Mike said…
enjoyment of rights undifferentiated by considerations of gender

Aha, that should work only if it is a Reflexive Relation (self-relation), because you’re only dealing with yourself and no one is involved and in your scenario a woman can then enjoy that undifferentiated rights (no one to blame but herself). However, it is different if it is a Transitive Relation, because you’re dealing with others , ie, you’re now link to others, in which any claim to equality, means that others rights have to be trembled in order to recognize that you should be equal (or at least) to them. You can’t measure yourself in a Reflexive Relation, since you have no reference point, but you can in a Transitive Relation. Once you reference yourself in a Transitive Relation, then it means you demand equality for something that it is not yours in the first place. Basically you have to violate others’ rights in order for you as a woman to become equal to them (ie, by demanding that someone pay you equal salaries, etc,… – and it is not your money in the first place for you to make that demand).

Are you still confused about rights Mike?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 11:22am
RightNow

Things you can see in Australia:

“HERE are some things I never thought I’d see in this country I love.

I never thought I’d see people picketing shops because their owners were Jews.

But in Melbourne last Friday, 19 protesters were arrested as they tried to stop people from shopping at the Max Brenner chocolate and coffee store in Melbourne’s QV.

In Sydney last month, Leftist and Muslim protesters did the same to a Max Brenner shop in Sydney, claiming the Jewish-owned franchise company supported the Israeli Army.

I’ve seen pictures of Jewish shops being attacked before, of course, but they were in black and white, in another country at another ghastly time.

But this is Australia. Today.

Here’s another thing I never thought I’d see in this country I’ve loved for its fair go.

I never thought I’d see academics sign a petition demanding someone be stopped from simply arguing.

But in Western Australia last week, that’s just what was done by 50 academics, from professors to a PhD candidate specialising in the representation of the Salvation Army in Finnish cinema, who demanded the University of Notre Dame stop warming sceptic Christopher Monckton from speaking there.

I’ve seen pictures of people being silenced for heresy before, of course, but they were in history books, drawn from inquisitions centuries ago, in another continent.

But this is Australia. Today.

Oh, and I never thought I’d see people getting doctorates in Australia on how Finnish films depicted the Salvation Army. But they do in the University of Western Australia, and, to be honest, that’s a first anywhere.

Here’s another thing I never thought I’d see in this country, which I’ve loved for those great home-making suburbs that artists once mocked for being boring.

I never thought I’d see parents killed after telling off naughty teenagers, or great masses of people brawling in our streets.

Yet this week, a Melbourne mum, with her 11-year-old daughter beside her, was stabbed to death after confronting youths who’d egged her house. Yet this week, 300 youths fought each other and police in a Melbourne suburb.

Oh, I’d heard of such stuff about the meanest streets of the United States, years ago.

But this is Australia. Today.

Here’s another thing I thought I’d never see in Australia, a land I’ve long loved for its peaceful ways.

I never thought I’d see clan members shoot at each other in road chases or kneecap each other, while their more glamorous members smiled for snaps in the society pages.

I never thought I’d see a man with a criminal record and links to the underworld given the honour of having his whitewashed memoirs published by a university.

Yet that’s what I have seen in Melbourne just last week, and in Sydney’s western suburbs for years. That what I have seen with Melbourne University Publishing, the preferred publisher of Mick Gatto.

Sure, I saw such things in Hollywood movies about wild Chicago, and heard of them in the bloodier parts of the Middle East.

But this is Australia. Today.

Here’s another thing I thought I’d never see in Australia, a land I’d long loved for is sturdy good sense.

I never thought I’d see a government-funded arts festival treat a terrorist supporter as a hero and a former prime minister as a terrorist.

Yet at the Sydney Writers Festival last month, the audience cheered al-Qaida trained David Hicks and heckled John Howard.

I’d heard of such insanities in Latin-American tyrannies, many years ago.

But this is Australia. Today.

Here’s yet another thing I never thought I’d see in Australia, where we have long loved to smell the air of careless freedom.

I never thought I’d see academics and activists agitate against democracy, while respectable journalists look away, too polite to protest.

Yet this week, 1000 Muslims met at a hall in Sydney last weekend, to hear a speaker tell them to reject democracy. Yet I’ve heard a former Greens candidate, Professor Clive Hamilton, suggest a “suspension of the democratic processes”, in case global warming got too bad.

I’ve read another professor, this time Emeritus Professor David Shearman, of Doctors for the Environment Australia, propose the world be run by “an authoritarian government” of environmental “guardians”. And last week I watched in amazement as Greens leader Bob Brown suggested we give up our sovereignty to a “global people’s assembly”.

I’d heard of such things in pre-Nazi Germany or the more oppressive Muslim theocracies, or read them in the pages of the wildest-eyed dreamers of a century ago.

But this is Australia. Today.

And one last thing I thought – hoped – we would not see in this country, which I’ve loved for insisting that we see each other as individuals, not marked off by birthplace, ancestry, wealth and, in particular, the absurdly trivial distinctions of “race”.

But stop. On legal advice, I must not comment one word further on this issue.

And of all the things I thought I’d never see in Australia, today, it would be this: that even I have been made too scared to speak.

In other places, maybe. In desperate times, long regretted.

But this is Australia. Today.”
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_things_i_never_thought_id_see_here/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 11:22am
mikenmild

Falafulu

Not confused at all, actually. Care to argue that point by specific reference to a particular (objective or subjective) right?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 11:41am
Falafulu Fisi

Mike,

Lets start. Who’s money is it anyway, that a woman is demanding to be paid equally to her male colleagues doing the same job? The question is a kindergarten one. Is it her money (assuming that she’s not self-employed)? Is it the proponents’ of equal gender rights such as yourself or is it the government’s money? If the money is other than the employer’s own money, then don’t you think that he/she (owner) is the one that has all the rights to determine his/her workers’ pay rates? How about proponents such as yourself setup some private funds to top-up women’s pay rates if they’re underpaid compared to male colleagues doing exactly the same job? Are you in for that socialist Mike? I thought not. You want someone else’s to pay for it without a single fucking cent from the likes of you.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:04pm
mikenmild

Falafulu

Ok let’s argue that one. We have agreed in NZ (through our democratic process) that women should be paid equally with men for the same work. I don’t have a problem with that, either as an employer paying my employees at the same rate or as an employee receiving the same rate as my female colleagues. Despite these provisions, there is still a gender pay-gap, but that’s another argument.

As a taxpayer, I’m quite happy to pay extra, if it means our employees of equal ability and contribution are paid commensurate with their skills rather than gender.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:09pm
Falafulu Fisi

Mike said…
We have agreed

Who’s WE? I didn’t agree, did you? When did you agree to that? Which form that you filled in where you signed your agreement? How many people in the population that were agreed? Can you elaborate on that?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:15pm
mikenmild

Falafulu

The people of New Zealand elect representatives every three years. These representatives, members of Parliament, meet to pass legislation. Among these laws as those that provide for recognition of equality in many spheres, including employment. Examples of such legislation would be the Bill of Rights Act and the Human Rights Act.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:18pm
Falafulu Fisi

Mike said…
These representatives, members of Parliament, meet to pass legislation.

Stop, right there. That’s exactly the problem there. Representatives do things that people who elected them didn’t vote for. Again, that’s the problem with a system that doesn’t recognize rights in an objective manner but regarded it as something arbitrary to be kicked around like a nice rugby ball. Rights then is (re) defined by whims of politicians according to whatever that will rally idiot voters to re-elect him/her .Were people opposed to Sue Bradford’s bill? I’m just wondering, because your every argument here, I have exposed your logic as nothing but a confused man, with no ability to reason.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:25pm
mikenmild

Falafulu

Sorry for standing up for parliamentary democracy, but in the absence of more refined direct democratic systems it’s the best thing we have. I’d be interested in hearing your views on alternative systems. Was it Churchill who said ‘democary is the worst possible political system, except for all the others’?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:28pm
RightNow

To be fair in assessing pay equity wouldn’t you also have to consider the qualifications, prior experience, and references of the employees? If I was the employer and was forced to reveal pay rates, I would also want to reveal each employee’s CV for consideration. A starting salary is usually very dependent on these factors.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 12:41pm
Falafulu Fisi

Mike, one of the founding father’s of the US once quoted the following:

Jefferson once said…
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49 percent.

So, you think that democracy must be equated to rights ? Nope! That’s exactly what Jefferson’s comment above is supposed to highlight.

Here is something for you to chew on.

Islamic countries support sharia law. Well, that’s democracy, because that’s what’s their population want. So, obviously you’re happy with the people living there who are being persecuted for not obeying the sharia law. So, that’s sharia-law based system is acceptable because that’s the will of the people (democracy). Well, from an outsider such yourself (& me) think that such system is appalling? I’m appalled because I view it thru the lens of objective rights. Your case is I suspect, you’re appalled simply because you live in a more freer country then those poor Muslims. Surely, you can see that without defining rights in an objective manner as I have argued here, then it MUST be acceptable to you how Islamic countries with their sharia-based laws are treated by their own government. WHY? Well, you said that it just how democracy works, since the majority of the citizens of those Islamic countries voted for such repressive system?

Can you identify a contradiction in your way of reasoning here?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:02pm
Pete George

There’s a lot of potential factors Rightnow, it’s often far more complex than A gets x and B gets y.
Employees will often overestimate their own worth and performance in comparison to others.

What we need is an Employment Standards agency, so that each year every employee can be assessed and rated. This could be collated and published in employment league tables along with their earnings.

And for those that don’t recognise my nudges at promoting discussion – I’m kidding.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:04pm
Pete George

Jefferson once said…
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49 percent.

It doesn’t work like that here. In New Zealand 51% of the people that bother to vote give 0.00002851% of the people (plus those appointed and employed by them, and their party cliches) a license to do as they please for three years.

Falafulu Fisi, do you support my suggestion for a more consultative and responsive form of democracy?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:10pm
mikenmild

Falafulu

Yeah, Jefferson certainly was no believer in democracy, farless equality, especially for his slaves. Most countries that follow sharia law are not democracies, so your line of argument is a bit of a dud for someone who likes to criticise opposing points of view on the grounds of rationality.

So, we could go gack to your ‘objective rights’. What are they and how are they defined?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:11pm
RightNow

More policy based on models, since they are so much more favourable to policy objectives than real life:
“Treasurer Wayne Swan was today unable to rule out immediate job cuts after the package is rolled out on Sunday.

But, as coal producers warn of losses of up to $18 billion to 2020 under the carbon tax, he said modelling of the carbon tax showed the industry would continue to grow”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/emergency-carbon-tax-compensation-for-power-plants/story-fn59niix-1226088766853
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:21pm
Falafulu Fisi

Mike,

Have you read Not PC’s blog on a short summary of rights. If you haven’t then read it again.

How about rights as to be left alone, huh? Is that simple enough? You’re responsible for your own. If you’re hungry, that’s your problem. Don’t look to the government to give you free vouchers, since that requires the Govt to coerce taxpayers to provide for you? If you are a woman and not happy with your pay package at work, since your male colleagues, get more than you for doing the same job, just quit or find another job. Don’t lobby the government to pass laws that will require property owners (businesses) to top-up your salary. The money belong to the business owners, not you the worker nor the lawmakers. (Note there will always be private charities out there that will look out for despair people who can’t eat or get temporary housing).

Now, tell me, how hard is it to understand that very simple concept?

How about a constitution to limit the power of the government? Rights must be in that framework so it is outside the reach of voters? That’s better much better than what Winston Churchill had quoted.

Mike said…
Most countries that follow sharia law are not democracies

Which are those ones?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:25pm
starboard

anyway…

Mother Superior called all the nuns together and said to them, ‘I must tell you all something. We have a case of gonorrhea in the convent.’ ‘Thank God,’ said an elderly nun at the back. ‘I’m so tired of chardonnay’
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:32pm
starboard

*breaking news *

Alastair Thompson just been given the boot…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:36pm
mikenmild

Falafulu

I’m sure you are capable of assessing the correlation between degrees of sharia law and democracy.

Is there any difference between your libertarian constitution and ‘objective rights’?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 1:48pm
tvb

I note that it is in the form of a dismissal rather than a resignation. There will be a number of reasons for that. Possibly the Board wanted to make the point that Thompson became unacceptable and would not consider that a resignation would send the correct message. Air New Zealand employs a lot of women had withdrawn their support from the Organisation. Perhaps Thompson was being difficult with the terms of his departure and the Board felt it better that they should dismiss him and the exit terms could be argued as part of a PG claim by Thompson should he pursue it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:01pm
Ed Snack

Mikenmild, the problem with your approach is that anything can be supported. Rwanda, over 50% of the population was Hutu, hated the Tutsi minority group’s assumptions of superiority, so set out to kill them all. But that’s OK according to your view because there are no inherent human rights and the majority agreed that anyone assuming such a social superiority should be eliminated permanently and de facto voted (with their machetes) to implement the policy.

Or a similar example, the treatment that it is claimed that Israel “dishes out” the Israeli arabs is acceptable because the government of Israel is democratically elected (the arabs have the vote) and as it imposes claimed restrictions, that is acceptable. Agree, or is it only some restrictions (those you agree with) that can be imposed, like taxing the “rich pricks” ?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:06pm
mikenmild

Ed

Good examples. I wasn’t aware taking arms and murdering your neighbours was the equivalent of voting,,, but you’ve taught me something new.

Sure, the Israeli government is democratically elected. Doesn’t imply their every act is fine.

BTW, I don’t like taxes, or rich ‘pricks’, but most of the rich people I know are okay.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:12pm
Ed Snack

Yes Mike, they’re examples of what you support, are you backing away from that now ? Rwanda, BTW, had an elected government before the massacres. Not sure I’d put it on the same democratic plane as, say, NZ, but it was democratic in form. Are you now going to argue that the degree of democracy matters ?

Note that I’m not specifically claiming that you are, for example, supporting Genocide, however I am pointing out the the form of rights you are I believe trying to articulate supports such actions. I don’t think that you yet realize that and that the problem with saying that rights are entirely contingent on what an elected government (however elected) decides to do (regardless of whether that particular activity was specifically proposed as an election platform) is that it allows precisely such activities to be justified.

I’m on Falu’s side (not entirely I’m sure, but basically) in that certain human rights are inalienable and attach only to individuals. The best short expression of these is the “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”. Those are the base you individually get, and by agreement they can be modified with exceptions. Rights must not attach to group membership though, because then who ever controls membership controls rights.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:22pm
Rex Widerstrom

Pete George says:

In New Zealand 51% of the people that bother to vote give 0.00002851% of the people (plus those appointed and employed by them, and their party cliches) a license to do as they please for three years.

Indeed what happens is a minority(1) of a three quarters majority(2) give a very much smaller minority unfettered power over the whole.

(1) Because no party has been elected with an outright majority for a very long time (a historian amongst us will no doubt recall when)
(2) Voter turnout in 2008 was 76 percent.

So for instance 45% (the National party vote in 2008) of 76% determined that we’d have a National government. And a much, much smaller number of people determined who most of those people would actually be (through list ranking and preselection for safe seats) while the votes of 153,461 people whose party votes went to parties who didn’t get represented in Parliament counted for naught.

And the citizenry shrug and assume this is the best we can do. You might run a pigeon fanciers club on such a slack foundation, but a country which likes to think of itself as a democracy, when it now has the means to do so much better?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:29pm
mikenmild

Rex

1949, I think for an absolute majority.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:32pm
tom hunter

It would seem this debate on GD is more appropriate for the little interactions I had with mike on the “CGT” thread in asking what restrictions lay upon governments:

Principally elections. These are held every three years and provide the opportunity to select representatives to exercise powe ron our behalf.

I have to admit that it was somewhat of a rhetorical question, placed in the hope of seeing what lay behind the philosophy of light, airy, shiny, happiness that is voting in NZ.

But I realise now that phrases such as tyranny of the majority, elected dictatorships and so forth, is just more of that “construction” that humans indulge in. As long as one votes, what problems could possibly arise?

tom

I said ‘principally’ elections. There are other checks of course, but none so decisive as the ability to remove from office those who exercise power on our behalf. We have many other checks – I’m sure you could name some.

I’m more concerned that you apparently can’t, nor imagine that there are government tyrannies aside from the classic of dictators who refuse to be removed from office.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:33pm
mikenmild

Ed

‘…the problem with saying that rights are entirely contingent on what an elected government (however elected) decides to do…’ Not actually what I said, but moving on:
‘certain human rights are inalienable and attach only to individuals. The best short expression of these is the “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness”. Those are the base you individually get, and by agreement they can be modified with exceptions.’

Who decides those exceptions and how? Should we look at the famous Founding Fathers who excluded blacks from the right to liberty? Every society develops a mechanism for determining rights.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:36pm
mikenmild

tom

I’m not denying that a democratically elected government can perform tyrannical actions. To save you have to think of other checks, here are a few: an independent judiciary, ombudsmen, a free press, a culture of constitutionalism, organised civil groups, etc, etc.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:39pm
Rex Widerstrom

mikenmild:

Thanks, I figured it was sometime just after WWII. I’m interested in your list of institutions which supposedly protect us against bad government, and would suggest their effectiveness is debatable for the following reasons:

an independent judiciary

Unless you want judge-made law, no. in WA we have an Act that seizes all the property – even that honestly obtained – of people convicted even of relatively minor crimes. The innocent partners and children of those convicted are finding the family home, which they can prove they paid for with honestly obtained income, taken away from them with no compensation.

Judges all the way up the ladder to the High Court of Australia have said it is poorly drafted. I (as State Director of Civil Liberties Australia) have even got many of the lawmakers who were in office when it was passed to admit that it’s not working the way it was intended. But it suits the present Attorney General to posture as being “tough on crime” so it doesn’t change. And judge after judge takes honestly-obtained property from innocent people saying “I’m sorry, but…”

One even put it to me as “Find me a way…” Judges must do what the statutes tell them. And if the statutes are faulty, only the legislature can change that. So no, not judges.

ombudsmen

Can make an adverse finding, recommendations and so on. But the power of that office is limited, especially when a Minister refuses to make changes which would ensure a more just outcome from his or her Department.

a free press

Seriously?! Once upon a time, certainly. Now…

a culture of constitutionalism

Which is not the same as a constitution, so even if sufficient numbers of people do find the actions of their politicians abhorrent, about all they can do is join hands and sing Kumbaya. Or make a submission to a Select Committee, which is about as effective.

organised civil groups

Who are essentially powerless, but at least used to be the canaries down the mine. But now something insidious is happening… I’m noticing more and more than these groups are being funded by government and are expected to tone down their criticism of government policy as an unspoken condition of that financial support. And if they don’t… goodbye, no matter how much good work you’ve done. Just look at Prisoners’ Aid and Rehabilitation, killed by Judith Collins despite over 50 years of demonstrable success.

All these things should work, and some do, to a degree. But a ruling elite determined to maintain its grip on power can use other traditions – like the primacy and supremacy of Parliament – to over-ride all of those. Which is why I believe that – while all you’ve listed ought to be supported – we need more.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 2:56pm
F E Smith

Have to agree with Rex on this one. While I am a big supporter of an independent judiciary, the only real weapon they have is the judicial review, and even that simply goes to process rather than result.

The fact is that Parliament is the supreme in our representative democracy and there is no check on it other than a poll of the people every three years.

The effectiveness of the judiciary in checking the power of the executive went out the window with their ability to make common law 100-150 years ago. These days they simply enforce the laws created by politicians. Which is why it is incredibly unfair to blame lawyers and judges for any perceived mess in the legal system- it is, after all, set in place by legislation and cannot move outside the bounds set for it in that legislation.

Rex’s comment about making a submission to a select committee is equally valid. These days government policy does not appear to be subject to the influence of debate or submission. We can still do these things, but the policy will become law irrespective of the opposition. An example here? 75% of lawyers opposed the creation of the NZ Supreme Court.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:05pm
Pete George

?An example here? 75% of lawyers opposed the creation of the NZ Supreme Court.

And we have no idea what % of all the voters thought.

This raises an interesting point – what if 75% of voters were pro the Supreme Court?
What’s better – legal expert opinions or everyone’s? Or should both be considered and weighted?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:15pm
F E Smith

That is a good question, Pete. There is a balance on the expert/public issue, one that is probably different for each topic that might be raised. However, when such a high proportion of those who work in the area are in agreement, it would suggest that it would behoove the policy maker to carefully consider why.

That did not appear to happen in the situation I give as an example, the change to the NZ Supreme Court being driven ideologically by Margaret Wilson.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:20pm
Elaycee

milkmilo: “Rex – 1949, I think for an absolute majority.”

Wrong again. National increased its majority following the snap election called as a result of the 1951 waterfront dispute. From the Parliamentary Library:

“From the 1930s to 1996 the major parties won majority support from the voters only four times; Labour in 1938 and 1946, and National in 1949 and 1951”. … “Militant unionism was dealt a crushing blow. Many watersiders were blacklisted (banned from working on the wharves) for years afterwards. Holland immediately called a snap election, which took place on 1 September 1951. The electorate delivered the government a resounding victory, with National winning 54% of the vote and four more seats than in 1949.”

http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/2B687751-EFD9-4BA6-BD19-B38EEF6116EE/470/996Coalition1.pdf
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:20pm
mikenmild

Elaycee

I stand corrected, thank you.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:24pm
grumpyoldhori

The equal pay argument, I wonder, why equal pay for policewomen if they are not physically capable of going toe to toe with some male in a brawl ?

Equal pay for women in the armed forces, no problem if they can meet the male physical standard.
Unfair, yes having two standards is unfair.

Equal pay for fire fighters, if a female is incapable of opening a hydrant should she get equal pay ?
Or should we be understanding about women not having any upper body strength ?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:26pm
mikenmild

Rex/ F E Smith

Thanks for those thoughts. I certainly don’t think all of the ‘checks’ are strong or effective enough, but I still believe they are a good basis for progress.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:27pm
RightNow

A bicameral legislature would be my choice.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:38pm
mikenmild

RightNow

Jim Bolger’s favourite proposal!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:42pm
RightNow

Then I’m in good company.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 3:47pm
Rex Widerstrom

RightNow:

A Senate, aptly described by Paul Keating as “unrepresentative swill”?

What about the nation as an Upper House, able to call a referendum – with a much lower trigger, since we wouldn’t need the expense of a mini-election with physical polling places etc – which gets decided online?

Let the politicians pass laws, but reserve a 30 or maybe 60 day period before they can be enacted during which someone could – if they were opposed – get enough “electronic signatures” for a referendum on the topic. If the trigger number is reached, then the law is shelved till the referendum is decided. If that mechanism had been in place then, for instance, the anti-smacking legislation would have been stopped in its tracks. And all for the cost of a website.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 5:28pm
Grendel

BTW when mikenmild talks about ‘his employees’ and being happy to pay them equally he neglects to mention that he has already stated he works for govt so he is happy to pay people the same with other peoples money.

he is not in a position of having to put his own money at risk paying employees, so once again is talking smoke because its easy to play loose with other peoples money, when its your own, you tend to be more careful with it.

BTW if i had two employees, doing the exact same job, who were the exact same age, with the exact same background, education and employment history, attitudes, mannerisms,height, weight etc (ie the only difference at all was gender, hired at the same time i would of course pay them exactly the same. but in the real world, not lefty magic world, that never happens. people have different backgrounds, different skills, experiences, attitudes, are hired in different markets all of which contributes to different salaries.

So simply comparing two employees and their salary and then trying to work out what was ‘fair’ is of course utterly stupid, but then its a green party idea, so no surprises there.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 5:34pm
RightNow

Rex – referism? I’d be in support of it: http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/05/that-ism-again.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 5:46pm
nasska

Rex

I like. Sensible & simple but imagine trying to get that past the wankers who claim to represent us. It has to be remembered that even to get ‘non binding’ referenda put in place met with resistance & they have proved to be about as useful as a condom in the top drawer of Sue Bradford’s bedside cabinet.

National & Labour’s Rule#1…If it reduces the power of the executive – bin it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 5:52pm
kingofthejuice

Bit of light relief…. ‘NZ’s worst songs ever’ on Stuff’s entertainment blog. Some very funny comments and spleens vented.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/blogs/blog-on-the-tracks/5239212/The-worst-NZ-songs-you-have-to-hear#comments
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:15pm
Viking2

Is Adolf off colour?? Must be the SUN?

Credit Where It Is Due
Good on you Dr Brash.

If you do manage to struggle past 2.0% PV in November the best thing you can do is roll McCully out of his disastrous Fiji engagement and roll PM Key out of his ridiculous ETS.

http://nominister.blogspot.com/2011/07/credit-where-it-is-due.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:16pm
Viking2

http://travel.msn.co.nz/glance/175980/worlds-longest-bridge-opens.glance
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:39pm
nasska

It has been known for many years that sex is good exercise, but until recently nobody had made a scientific study of the caloric expenditure of different sexual activities. Now after original and proprietary research they are proud to present the results.

REMOVING HER CLOTHES:
With her consent………………….. 12 Calories
Without her consent……………….. 387 Calories

OPENING HER BRA:
With both hands…………………… 8 Calories
With one hand…………………….. 22 Calories
With your teeth…………………… 85 Calories

PUTTING ON A CONDOM:
With an erection………………….. 6 Calories
Without an erection……………….. 315 Calories

PRELIMINARIES:
Trying to find the clitoris………… 8 Calories
Trying to find the G-Spot………….. 192 Calories

POSITIONS:
Missionary……………………….. 112 Calories
69 lying down…………………….. 178 Calories
69 standing up……………………. 312 Calories
Wheelbarrow………………………. 386 Calories
Doggy Style………………………. 400 Calories
Italian chandelier………………… 972 Calories

ORGASM
Real…………………………….. 112 Calories
Fake……………………………. 315 Calories

POST ORGASM:
Lying in bed hugging………………. 18 Calories
Getting up immediately…………….. 36 Calories
Explaining why you got out of bed immediately……816 Calories

GETTING A SECOND ERECTION:
If you are:
20-29 years old…………………… 36 Calories
30-39 years………………………. 80 Calories
40-49 years………………………. 124 Calories
50-59 years………………………. 972 Calories
60-69 years………………………. 2916 Calories
70 and over……………………. Results are still pending

DRESSING UP AFTERWARDS:
Calmly…………………………… 32 Calories
In a hurry……………………….. 98 Calories
With her father knocking at the door… 1218 Calories
With your wife knocking at the door…. 3521 Calories
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 6:57pm
Rodders

😀
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 7:21pm
tom hunter

F E Smith and Rex Widerstrom – thanks for your thoughtful, extensive answers on the topics of checking the power of the state and its growth. Good to see people really thinking these issues through in depth.

Thanks should probably also go to mikenmild for his short and simple assertions, especially when question marks were added. They really pushed the discussion along.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 7:24pm
nasska

There was once a young man who, in his
youth, professed a desire to become a
“great” writer.When asked to define “great”, he
said: “I want to write stuff that the whole
world will read, stuff that people will react to on
a truly emotional level,
stuff that will make them scream, cry, wail,
howl in pain, desperation and anger!”

He now works for Microsoft writing error
messages.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 7:40pm
Rex Widerstrom

@tom hunter:

Thanks. I’m by no means the only one who brings real world knowledge to postulating potentially workable solutions to this forum and it’s frustrating that tomorrow’s scandal-du-jour will mean today’s discussion is forgotten. Considering lefties and righties alike seem to feel the Executive is overstepping its powers it’d be good if we could get a non-partisan think tank going.

@RightNow:

There’s a word for everything! Thanks, I didn’t know that till now.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 7:55pm
calendar girl

Grendel @ 5.34pm: Excellent comment.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 8:57pm
reid

Thanks for the bridge link @6:39 V2. China is coming on very strong isn’t she. About time the MSM started changing the national mindset which IMO is it’s a backward somewhat quaint and rural land. About time, you would have thought, about ten years ago…

People laugh about the fact she’s only got one aircraft carrier without realising within ten years she’ll have fifteen in operation with another ten on the way…

What is that going to look like, geopolitically?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:05pm
kingofthejuice

@nasska (963) Says:
July 6th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
“There was once a young man who, in his
youth, professed a desire to become a
“great” writer.When asked to define “great”, he
said: “I want to write stuff that the whole
world will read, stuff that people will react to on
a truly emotional level,
stuff that will make them scream, cry, wail,
howl in pain, desperation and anger!”

He now works for Microsoft writing error
messages.”

Very funny. I’ve heard ‘Fatal Exception’ has been made into an art house movie. 90 minutes showing an unchanging Klein Blue screen.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:31pm
Viking2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2HwgZPUz58
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 9:53pm
publicwatchdog

Hi Kiwibloggers!

The tide is turning……………

Have been flat out like a lizard drinking (as my Aussie uncle used to say) defending Macsyna King, Ian Wishart and the public’s right to ‘freedom of expression’ with the controversial “Breaking Silence” ‘whistle-blowing’ mother’s story of the murder of the Kahui baby boys.

Joined the ‘Boycott the Macsyna King Book’ facebook page to help promote some robust debate. Got ‘banned/blocked’ after cutting and pasting from the “About’ and ‘Description’ sections of the ‘Boycott the Macsyna King Book’ facebook page the information which proven that thousands of people had been LIED to a ‘sucked in’ to believing that Macsyna King would personally profit from her ‘atrocious deeds’ when that was never the case.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-the-Macsyna-King-Book/140832719326817?sk=info

Nearly 50,000 people were misled by deceptive and dishonest behaviour of the mysterious person ‘Chris’ who established this facebook page – and helped get so many people stirred up over a blatant LIE – which has still to be corrected.

Presumably a number of them are starting to feel a bit ‘sheepish’ now?

WHY are people still boycotting “BREAKING SILENCE” – if they are genuinely opposed to child abuse?

I’ve asked a number of them this rather elementary, albeit provocative question, and have copped a lot of misdirected anger because a number of them simply can’t answer the question. They don’t know why exactly they’re doing what they’re doing – but HOW DARE I ask them?

Check it out for yourself.

There is NOTHING on the ‘Boycott the Macsyna King Book’ facebook page that says anything about opposing Ian Wishart making money out of “BREAKING SILENCE” (after having researched and written it – why shouldn’t he? It’s what he does for a living to feed his family?

There is nothing on the ‘Boycott the Macsyna King Book’ face book page which says anything about being opposed to child abuse or child abusers. Just opposed to the mother who is trying to break the Kahui ‘Code of Silence’ behind which whoever murdered the Kahui baby boys is hiding.

Ian Wishart set up a facebook page ‘Break the Kahui code of silence support the new book’ – where there has been some excellent and robust debate on a number of the pertinent issues.

If you believe in freedom of expression – I strongly recommend you make a little bit of time to have look for yourselves, and if YOU support ‘freedom of expression’ – now is a VERY good time to ‘step up to the plate’.

Without ‘freedom of expression’ – you have nothing.

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=118473574910713&id=184638478257810

Cheers!
Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:08pm
reid

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5239660/875-000-bill-to-oversee-two-months-work

RCP’s contract with the council said its services included project management, provided by 14 key staff, cost management by sub-contractor Rider Levett Bucknail, involving five key staff, and construction management, provided by the Fletcher Construction Company, with 11 key staff.

So let’s see, with the actual coal face occupying 11 “key staff” and the “admin/back-office” functions occupying 19 “key staff,” what’s going on ‘ere then?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:20pm
Viking2

Well that done Penny how come you haven’t done the same for Thompson. The abuse heaped on him is just as bad, some of the rhetoric from the female dept was scandalous and really he did nothing much at all. Never broke the law, never attacked anyone, but did speak the truth.
The female Nazi’s have managed to drive him from his job and have managed to screech and rant for over a week without adding one dollars worth of logic nor commonsense to the debate.
A victory for them in the short term they think but God help employers. Kelly has one scalp to her name now. Key acquiesced and why?
Kiwi’s seem to need a wake up call about life. Obviously don’t mind if the unions return to rule like they used to.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 6, 2011 10:24pm
publicwatchdog

This is worth a read folks (in my opinion 🙂

Melissa Wishart
http://pyromaniacsarethefuture.tumblr.com/post/7298017349/macsyna-king-breaks-her-silence-too-soon-for-some-it
And The Dish Ran Away With The Spoon – Macsyna King Breaks Her Silence, Too Soon For Some It Seems
pyromaniacsarethefuture.tumblr.com
After several months of procrastinating about writing a blog, I think I may have just found my inspiration. My problem before was that nothing sprung to mind. What should I blog about? What pissed me off enough to dedicate a rant to it?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 7, 2011 1:31am
Viking2

Another person dies because Police stop another motorist.
Now if you think this is an isolated incident of road policing I can safely say that I see these clowns do this virtually every day. anyone on the roads daily will see the same unreasonable behavoir by the road nazi’s.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/14049-scooter-man-83-dies-of-injuries.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 7, 2011 6:19am
Viking2

There had been a disproportionate rise in the unemployment rate for workers aged 15 to 19, which was now a “staggering” 27.5 per cent, and the next age group – 20 to 24 years – had a rate of 13.5 per cent.

Workers over 25 – who could be seen as a proxy for “skilled workers” – had a rate of just 4.6 per cent.

On average, the youth unemployment rate had been 11.8 percentage points higher than the non-youth rate since 1986, but by March this year the difference was 21.9 percentage points.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10736803
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
July 7, 2011 6:46am

More comments:

1
2
›

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Five months out

Labour’s new tax »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Automakers’ Costly Gamble on EVs: A Lesson in Ignoring Consumer Demand
Utopia
Hey Razor – What The Hell Is Going On With The All Blacks
No Minister
END GAME
The Standard
MEDIAWATCH: Q+A – Jack Tame destroys David Seymour
The Daily Blog
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Treaty Principles Debate
NZCPR
Much ado about cussing…
Point of Order
Justice in Brazil
No Right Turn
"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz