General Debate 17 July 2011

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JP1983

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July 17, 2011 1:08pm
gravedodger

Really appreciate the Shining Wit free zone.
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July 17, 2011 1:09pm
wat dabney

Today I’m doing a new dance called the Mashed Potato.
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July 17, 2011 1:09pm
Pete George

John Key’s easy going off the cuff manner is one reason why he’s popular, but it can also be a weakness.

He’s thrown in what looks like an off the cuff comment saying “a change to the oath of allegiance to include a reference to the Treaty of Waitangi is not going to happen anytime soon.”

He also says it’s not something he’s considered.

John Key pledges not to listen.

Perhaps he should consider the people of the country having an opinion and having some say in what happens. He may be the leader but that doesn’t give him a license to do as he pleases without consultation.
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July 17, 2011 1:12pm
Tommo

I see that prat keith locke is still ranting on about the police’s use of tasers. I think he should be shot, then tasered, then offered a choice for the third go… Wonder which he’d pick?
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July 17, 2011 1:15pm
backster

Why they need to have three expensive simultaneous inquiries looking into this to try and pin something on the cop when they should simply shake his hand and pin a medal on his chest beats me.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10738995

but if anyone thinks the cause of this incident was the result of poor judgement how about this

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10739008

words fail me.
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July 17, 2011 1:21pm
mikenmild

John Key’s taken to shooting from the lip a bit lately. SAS in Afghanistan, Tamil refugees, the oath of allegiance. Usually he’s a bit more careful before he makes thnings up on the spot.
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July 17, 2011 1:21pm
Other_Andy

Thanks to legislation brought in by the Jimmy Carter of New Zealand politics, Jeffrey Palmer.
The 33rd and, arguably, the worst Prime Minister of New Zealand ever
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10739008
Time to do away with the Bill of Rights or rewrite it?

Will John Campbell cite this example when urging people to take the Sri Lankan boat ‘refugees’?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/middle-east/news/article.cfm?l_id=8&objectid=10738837
Such an enterprising lot.
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July 17, 2011 1:24pm
Manolo

Usually he’s a bit more careful before he makes thnings up on the spot.

But the inane grin hasn’t changed an iota!
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July 17, 2011 1:26pm
Other_Andy

@Manolo
But the inane grin hasn’t changed an iota!
Rather have that than this….
http://www.peterellis.org.nz/2008/helen_clark.jpg
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July 17, 2011 1:32pm
3-coil

Thanks very much Other_Andy, what did we do to deserve that reminder?
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July 17, 2011 1:34pm
Manolo

Rather have that than this….

That was an affront to common sense and good taste. The witch’s face is loathsome.
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July 17, 2011 1:36pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Any day of the week, Other_Andy.
Any week of the month,
Any month of the year
And any year of the decade.
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July 17, 2011 1:38pm
Viking2

Pete, why should the PM give into racists and apartheid seeking Maori?

Harawira’s lot are not even original inhabitants of the area he seeks to take back.

Its not Key’s job the adlib change the constitution, he’s there to defend it.

You are still a lefty.
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July 17, 2011 1:53pm
BlueGriffon

Labour want to #ownourfuture ie: hash our own future. They made a hash of the 9 years they were in now they want to hash our future as well. God help us!
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July 17, 2011 1:57pm
Manolo

Pete, you are still a lefty.

Was there ever any doubt? 😀
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July 17, 2011 2:04pm
Southern Raider

Is there no way for the Govt to force sterilisation?

Article in HoS about some guy that is before the courts for hanging his 2 year old out a window and stabbling his heavily pregnant partner.

Now that isn’t the disturbing bit. The 2 year old was taken off the mother by CYPS after this. It was her SEVENTH child to be put into CYPS care and she has another one on the world.

Do you still get the DPB for 7 kids even if CYPS is looking after them all and why should this thing be allowed to keep on breeding like a rabbit and we have to pay for the results?
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July 17, 2011 2:04pm
Scott Chris

@Pete George (10,476) Says:
July 17th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
“John Key’s easy going off the cuff manner is one reason why he’s popular, but it can also be a weakness.”

His glib reply probably means he’s heard that one before. As for elected government being more accountable to the masses; Self interested lobby groups hold too much sway as it is under MMP. Government should be given the power to make decisions that may not be popular, but are for the greater good of the country.
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July 17, 2011 2:11pm
mikenmild

V2

‘Harawira’s lot are not even original inhabitants of the area he seeks to take back.’

Care to explain?
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July 17, 2011 2:14pm
Other_Andy

@Southern Raider
“force sterilisation….”
That’s going to far.
There is another way though, it is called Preventive detention.
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July 17, 2011 2:15pm
Pete George

No, I’m a democracy-ey, you know, where people get a say. I’m not into rule by personal decree.

And I’m not supporting any particular change to the oath, although god stuff and queen stuff and Maori stuff are all a bit foreign to me.

I’m supporting letting people discuss and propose and be listened to, not dismissed off the cuff. If Key keeps doing more of that it could be his undoing.

Scott Chris – I agree that lobby groups have too much say, especially within party back rooms. And I agree that government has a mandate to make administrative decisions. But some things, especially constitutional, are too important for that.
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July 17, 2011 2:15pm
starboard

“The man shot dead by police yesterday had just got out of jail for trying to cut the throat of the woman he held hostage for 12 hours. Anthony Roydon Ratahi, 46, was released from prison nine days ago after an eight-week stint behind bars for a horrific domestic violence attack on his ex-girlfriend Marcelle Beer”

another peaceful native taken care of…good shot men , congratulations.
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July 17, 2011 2:17pm
starboard

“Television power couple Amber Peebles and Brooke Howard-Smith plan to build their dream house – so they are selling their Sandringham Rd home”

whats a power couple? and who the fuk are they ?..and its in the news ?
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July 17, 2011 2:23pm
Rex Widerstrom

Viking2 says:

Its not Key’s job the adlib change the constitution, he’s there to defend it.

Wish that that were so, V2, but we’d need to have one first. And that’d presumably have come about through a process of genuine consultation and thus have widespread acceptance, in which case it would be his job to defend it, and we’d need to re-write the oath (the one Hone refused to take) to stop him defending the Queen – she’s got enough people to do that for her – and defend it, and us, including our right to decide who gets what in our own country.

As to Pete George’s original comment:

Perhaps he should consider the people of the country having an opinion and having some say in what happens. He may be the leader but that doesn’t give him a license to do as he pleases without consultation.

In the absence of a constitution, he’s right. It’s properly a decision of the people whether we bear allegiance to the Queen, the Treaty, both, or Bhudda, or Donald Trump’s hairpiece, and we’ve never been asked. We’ve never been asked if we’re happy with paying Treaty settlements – not just the paying of them, but the complete lack of restrictions on how they’re used and to whose benefit. We’ve never been asked if we’re happy with public asset sales to foreign owners. We’ve never been asked a lot of things and, without a constitution to guide him, it is actually beholden on Key to listen to what the people want, albeit it in a properly organised plebiscite.
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July 17, 2011 2:35pm
Viking2

mikenmild (1,135) Says:
July 17th, 2011 at 2:14 pm

V2

‘Harawira’s lot are not even original inhabitants of the area he seeks to take back.’

Care to explain?

Look back, do your own research its all there for you to see you lazy prick.
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July 17, 2011 2:38pm
Other_Andy

@Viking2

‘Harawira’s lot are not even original inhabitants of the area he seeks to take back.’

So…..?
Logic is a bourgeois concept
Facts are subjective
If that doesn’t work…..
Racist!
Or as Rodders would say, “Get a life!”
End of discussion lefty style.
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July 17, 2011 2:53pm
mikenmild

V2 and other morons on this blog are prone to claim from time time to that Maori were not the original inhabitant of Aotearoa. It’s really funny to see such idiots make fools of themselves.
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July 17, 2011 2:55pm
Other_Andy

@mikenmild

“V2 and other morons on this blog are prone to claim from time time to that Maori were not the original inhabitant of Aotearoa. It’s really funny to see such idiots make fools of themselves.”

A bit like those morons who claim that Islam means peace, is just another religion and ignore facts to the contrary?
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July 17, 2011 3:00pm
mikenmild

Well, believe in one myth, believe in a few others.
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July 17, 2011 3:04pm
Falafulu Fisi

Pete George said…
No, I’m a democracy-ey, you know, where people get a say. I’m not into rule by personal decree.

Pete, George, having 51% of the population having a say in (or rule over) the affairs of the other 49% is pure rule by decree. Can’t you see that? That’s socialism. The 51% can say whatever they want. They can keep taking from the other 49% of the population who never gave approval in the first place to the wealth redistribution social programs. Oops, you’ve have encountered a contradiction in your way of thinking.
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July 17, 2011 3:04pm
Rex Widerstrom

backster asks:

how about this

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10739008

words fail me

Let’s look at the details of that incident.

1. Ministry of Social Development wrongly tag the file of a man convicted of attacking a police officer, unlawful possession of firearms, aggravated robbery, theft, burglary and trying to escape from custody as having a conviction for “domestic violence”.

2. Said man takes umbrage. The story doesn’t say, but it may be that he has children, in which case a conviction for domestic violence would hinder his contact with them moreso than ones for generalised violence. Or perhaps he was a stickler for accuracy. Who knows. The point is, if MSD had simply corrected the annotation at this point, the story would have ended.

3. Instead, MSD get the pip and stupidly refuse to correct the file (which could still have mentioned all the man’s other convictions), thus opening the way for complaint to the Privacy Commissioner and then to the Human Rights Review Tribunal.

4. Again, at any time during the process of investigation by the Privacy Commissioner and proceedings before the Tribunal, MSD could have got down off its high horse and corrected the file and it’s likely that that would have been accepted by the investigating authorities as an end to the matter.

5. MSD maintained till the very end it’s right to publish a lie, causing the taxpayer to cop a fine of $3,500, to be paid to one of the most undeserving recipients ever recorded.

Asked to justify his Ministry’s attitude, CEO Peter Hughes says “his violent criminal history speaks for itself and he has spent much of his life in prison”. So f****ing what? So call him a criminal; list his actual convictions; and if you get one wrong, make a simple correction to the file and move on.

Stop behaving like petulant, judgemental, immature fools and expecting the taxpayer to pay when it catches up with you.

Whoever refused to make a simple correction and let it get to this should be packing his things in a box and vacating his desk by Monday.
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July 17, 2011 3:06pm
Pete George

Falafulu Fisi – 51 percent is a bit better than 1 person.

Anyway, it wouldn’t be 51% of the population. And a proper 51% basis (of voters) should be on an issue by issue basis so the people making each decision (that goes to referendum) would be an ever changing group.
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July 17, 2011 3:08pm
Manolo

Steyn on US debt-ceiling negotiations: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/272022/great-charade-mark-steyn
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July 17, 2011 3:09pm
Viking2

Rex. That is so but what we have is a pseudo constitution and its hard enough now to stop the buggers from pleasing themselves without Pete supposing Key should listen to the likes of John form Northland or Turiana from Wanganui in a quiet moment then making changes. No doubt if it were down to Findlayson and Sharples it would be a done deal and that’s an issue for this next election.
The Maori Party Mana Party and the Brown National party need to be stopped before they do that.

I find it interesting when my family were present in NZ well before half of the forefathers of some of these people, yet they disregard my birthright to NZ.
All these activists are only second generation on one side of their family whereas I am 4th generation at least and more in one case.
Turiana’s father was an American, Hatfeilds was an Englishman, O’Regans was an Irishman, you get the drift.
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July 17, 2011 3:19pm
Rex Widerstrom

Falafulu Fisi says:

Pete George, having 51% of the population having a say in (or rule over) the affairs of the other 49% is pure rule by decree. Can’t you see that? That’s socialism.

I admit I’m uneasy about the “tyranny of the majority”, and the protection of minority rights. But the alternative we’re offered from both sides of the aisle is having 0.003% of the population (Parliament) ruling over the affairs of the other 99.997%, ignoring even the clearly expressed wishes of an overwhelming majority (e.g. on smacking laws). That’s dictatorship.

Of course the actual percentages are even worse, since most MPs – and especially List MPs – are just vote fodder, there to nod when ordered to by an even smaller elite.

Refusing to consider restructuring of our democracy from an increasingly out-of-touch near-dictatorship to something else, just because the end point of that process might be unfettered socialism – but only if we take no interest in the restructuring and let that happen, in which case we probably deserve it – is defeatist. Can’t you see that?
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July 17, 2011 3:19pm
Viking2

Rex. what else would expect og Hughes? the Man has a record of being like that.
time he was retired
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July 17, 2011 3:24pm
Viking2

mikenmild (1,137) Says:
July 17th, 2011 at 2:55 pm

V2 and other morons on this blog are prone to claim from time time to that Maori were not the original inhabitant of Aotearoa. It’s really funny to see such idiots make fools of themselves.

Been called worse names by bigger idots than you. You don’t even know the history of this country and you come on here espousing your wisdom, which is shallow and without research and to make matters worse you can’t even read a simple sentence.
‘Harawira’s lot are not even original inhabitants of the area he seeks to take back.’

Nowhere did I refer to Maori’s not being the original inhabitants of the far North.
I said that the Harawira’s wern’t.
They ate the originals.
Go find out and come back in a few years when you know your stuff.
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July 17, 2011 3:29pm
nasska

Rex

…”most MPs – and especially List MPs – are just vote fodder, there to nod when ordered to by an even smaller elite.”…

And there lies the greatest threat to the Claytons democracy we now find ourselves saddled with. The enemy has a name…”The Executive”. As you properly point out most MP’s exist only as vote fodder & if the truth be known they are unlikely to know much more of the purpose of what they are voting for or against than the uninformed electorate.

The absence of an Upper House or a proper Constitution will be our undoing. If things turn to custard then we are no better off than those living in a dictatorship.
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July 17, 2011 3:39pm
mikenmild

V2

Do tell. So who did the Harawiras eat then?
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July 17, 2011 3:42pm
Other_Andy

@nasska
“The absence of an Upper House or a proper Constitution will be our undoing. If things turn to custard then we are no better off than those living in a dictatorship.

It doesn’t seem to do the US any good at the moment.
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July 17, 2011 3:43pm
bereal

Hey mikemild @ 2.56
Typical. Same old same old from you.
Attribute a specious statement to the other side, then, ask a question about that non statement, or,
in this case, attribute a specious statement then mock it, call them names and add a supercillious comment.
Is this the only way you have to ‘contribute’ ?
Lightweight and purile.
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July 17, 2011 3:45pm
Inventory2

@ bereal; you hadn’t noticed that mikenmild is a National bad;Labour good troll?
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July 17, 2011 3:49pm
mikenmild

bereal, IV2

Just asking questions. I hadn’t heard that the Harawiras ate the original inhabitant, so just wanted to know more.
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July 17, 2011 3:53pm
bereal

mikenmilds statements are puerile.
“who did the Harawiras eat then ?”
See what i mean.
Every comment more puerile than its predecessor.
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July 17, 2011 3:54pm
starboard

go back to the strandard milkymike..you have more of a chance there..circle jerking with ya mates iprent and co
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July 17, 2011 3:58pm
nasska

Other_Andy

I get your point that the situation in the USA leaves much to be desired but for all that the Constitution does give some protection. I feel that the current president would feel much happier about his future if he didn’t have that founding document & a hostile senate to rein in his plans to send the USA down the financial shitter.

If NZ was in the same position all we would get from our elected executive would be their spin on the situation. There would be no control whatsoever on their actions other than the chance of being turfed out at the end of three years.

If they really wanted to stay where they are they could always abolish elections. A simple majority would pass the legislation & I know of no way anyone could stop that happening.

It’s time for far less trust & more certainty. If the elected ones squeal we’ll know we’ve got it right.
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July 17, 2011 4:01pm
mikenmild

bereal

I was only asking V2 about his statement. Nice of you and starboard to jump to the defence, though, if V2 wasn’t able.
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July 17, 2011 4:04pm
bereal

One other obsevation on the ‘contibutions’ from mikenmild.
He will ask endless puerile questions about a comment that was only made in his mind but he
couldn’t/wouldn’t answer a genuine question if his life depended upon it. (couldn’t more likely)
That is his only act.
Over and over.
” I was only asking.” Jeez.
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July 17, 2011 4:05pm
Viking2

He stepped outside the hotel about 10.20am.

Mr Handcock said police challenged him, deployed a police dog and “there was a struggle prior to the discharge of a police firearm”.

But as it was “very early” in the investigation, he was not prepared to discus the details and circumstances of the shooting.

Ratahi died at the scene.

The police shot was the only shot fired, Mr Handcock said.

A knife was found near his body, but police are yet to find a gun.

This doesn’t have a good look to it despite the fellow being a p fueled nutter and a nasty bastard.
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July 17, 2011 4:06pm
mikenmild

nasska

It’s highly unlikely that any NZ government could act unconstitutionally. some of our legislation is entrenched, so requires more than a simple majority to change. A government acting fundamentally out of synch with constitutional norms would likely face serious opposition from the courts and, potentially, the Governor-General as a last resort.
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July 17, 2011 4:11pm
starboard

yeah but you gotta admit V2 the outcome was 10/10..one less fucktard roaming the streets…
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July 17, 2011 4:15pm
starboard

“unconstitutionally. some”

The S should be a capital milky…just sayin..
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July 17, 2011 4:17pm
mikenmild

Thanks starboard. I’ll try harder.
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July 17, 2011 4:18pm
Rex Widerstrom

@Viking2

Agreed re Maori issues. A proper constitution would have a process for dealing with such issues, debated and agreed upon by the majority, and thus not subject to lobbying and political blackmail. And anything not clearly outlined ought to be subject to further consultation and decision. I may be wrong, but I suspect that such a process would result in a very different outcome to the one we have at present.

Current negotiations are between the Attorney General, who represents “the Crown”, and Maori. Missing from a place at the table are non-Maori NZers who ought to be, but aren’t, represented under the Crown. A re-think of the way in which ordinary people engage in the democratic process would redress that.

Re Hughes… he has a record of petulance and costly tantrums? About time for some investigative work from our media then, rather than going for the quick (and obvious) “scumbag gets three grand” story (Yes, I’m laughing at the thought of investigative journalism existing in a corner of NZ’s media too).

@nasska

The enemy has a name…”The Executive”.

To a degree, yes. But it’s also Parliament as a whole. Every electorate MP has a mandate from the people who cast their votes for them and a duty to represent those who didn’t. By not speaking up when things start to turn custard-coloured, and when the will of the people they represent is ignored, they are failing. One MP alone perhaps can’t do anything, but if they all did… well geez, I think that’s what’s called a democracy!

It’s the determination of every MP to put their own political career advancement ahead of the wishes of those they are elected to represent that has brought us to where we are. You have to go back to Minogue, Waring, and yes, at one time Winston, to find someone who’s taken a stand on principle and gambled their own career on it. Ironically, the closest we’ve come recently has been Harawira’s resignation… but as just about everyone realised, that was for show.
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July 17, 2011 4:18pm
nasska

mikenmild

I am aware that some legislation has been enacted that supposedly requires a 70% (?) majority to change but how could this be enforced? A simple majority could pass a law that over rode any other.

The Governor General is no more than a figurehead & what apologises for a constitution in NZ is piss weak & a nuisance value only.
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July 17, 2011 4:22pm
mikenmild

nasska

Some clauses of the Electoral Act, for example, require a 75% (I think) majority. The clauses that provide for this are not themselves entrenched, so in theory a government could remove that entrenching clause and then change key parts of the Electoral Act by a simple majority. That this has never happened probably speaks to a certain level of maturity in NZ and shared confidence in the constitutional conventions. It’s not impossible for the Governor-General to act is emergency (see Australia 1975) but highly ulikely.

Possibly our politicians are not much tempted because they always imagine themselves to be so popular that they will get re-elected.
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July 17, 2011 4:28pm
nasska

Rex

Principle has become a very rare commodity in our Parliament. I wonder if a National Government with a large unruly caucus, as we could have after November, might produce a few pearls.
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July 17, 2011 4:28pm
Other_Andy

@nasska

“I get your point that the situation in the USA leaves much to be desired but for all that the Constitution does give some protection. I feel that the current president would feel much happier about his future if he didn’t have that founding document & a hostile senate to rein in his plans to send the USA down the financial shitter.”

I suppose you mean the hostile congress (The Senate still has a Democratic majority).
The problems with the US constitution is that the DOJ is a Obama stooge and Obama is stacking the legislative branch with ‘progressive’ judges who will ‘interpret’ the constitution as they see fit. You are hearing the same noises as we hear about the treaty. It is a ‘living document’, open to interpretation’ we have to adhere to the principles (Whatever THEY think they are) and not to the letter of the constitution…blah, blah, blah….
He just ignores the constitution. One example is the war in Libya. While the constitution states that a war in a foreign country can only be started after Cogress has approved it, Obama just went ahead. When asked about this he just explained that the Libyan war wan’t really a war but ‘kinetic militairy action’.
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July 17, 2011 4:31pm
mikenmild

I thought one of the criticisms of Obama was that he wasn’t filling vacancies on the federals courts quickly enough.
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July 17, 2011 4:35pm
Viking2

He’s our most famous current affairs broadcaster – and he’s now a gay icon.

He might be balding, have a paunch and be on the wrong side of 50, but to a gay internet group which has a preference for big hairy men, known affectionately in rainbow circles as “bears”, he’s just dandy.

American website Daddy Bear Frontier has crowned TVNZ’s Close Up host as “hot and sexy”, “rugged” and a man with a “gorgeous sexy voice”.

The website also marks Him as a Kiwi tourism attraction. “Screw the stunning scenery and the Lord of the Rings cast, this guy is the thing to go to New Zealand for,” readers are advised.

Find Out who it is.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/5297791/Hair-bear-bunch-like-

hahahaha. Are we surprised?
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July 17, 2011 4:42pm
joe90

US debt-ceiling negotiations

A plan so cunning you could pin a tail on it and call it a donkey?.

Now Chuck Schumer is jumping on the report as proof that Boehner’s flirtation with the Tea Party is playing Russian roulette with the economy in a way that could alienate the GOP’s business base. In a statement sent my way, Schumer said:

“The Speaker seems to be testing out how far he can venture onto a frozen lake before the ice breaks. He should listen to business leaders who are telling him to watch his step. Messing around with the debt ceiling just to satisfy the Tea Party will lead to higher interest rates and an economic cataclysm.”
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July 17, 2011 4:46pm
nasska

Other_Andy

The American Constitution while only a piece of paper & open to interpretations by biased Judges is still held sacred by many Americans. Even if Obama is hellbent on doing his own thing the sheer publicity involved could be his undoing.

Contrast that with NZ where we live with no protection from our own venal representatives other than a piss weak apology for a constitution & a figurehead Governor General. I accept that we can say “so far so good” but any faith I have in anything is in very short supply & unlikely to be wasted on politicians.
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July 17, 2011 4:47pm
reid

Is there anyone left in the entire world who still thinks Iraq was about WMD?
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July 17, 2011 4:49pm
Rex Widerstrom

@nasska

As mikenmild says, “entrenched” legislation requires a three quarters majority to change. Because of the unlikelihood of three quarters of MPs agreeing on anything, ever, entrenched legislation has usually been changed by referendum. For example the Electoral Act, which was entrenched, was changed by the 1993 referendum which brought in MMP.

So the way to change even entrenched aspects of NZ’s law is to devolve power to the people… albeit (if I had my way) with safeguards to ensure the issue was understood, such as a simple multi-choice test on the topic to pass before voting (easily done when referenda are conducted online).

I doubt the larger National caucus will make the slightest difference. The people chosen to date have been carefully picked for their ability to nod on cue and look the part.
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July 17, 2011 4:55pm
Mike Readman

The One News update just said concerning their poll – “four months out from the election and there’s a developing nightmare for one political party”. Hmmm, wonder which one it could be?
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July 17, 2011 5:16pm
nasska

Rex

I’m getting out of my depth here. I accept that 75% may be required to change or remove entrenched legislation but what is to stop any Government over riding it with a fresh statute?

I would like to see this forum debate your idea of on line referenda, indeed the introduction of binding referenda would allow a degree of democracy unheard of this side of ancient Athens.
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July 17, 2011 5:17pm
Viking2

the Nats. Polls getting close.
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July 17, 2011 5:18pm
mikenmild

nasska

There are quite a few things a government could do, in theory, that are only restrained by convention. The Minister of Justice could appoint politically partisan judges. The public service could be openly politicised. The security agencies could be directed to dig dirt on political opponents. Some behaviour is restrained due to the fear that if one party engages in it, so could another. Mainly, our politicians actually accept a certain amount of essentially voluntary restraint on power.
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July 17, 2011 5:37pm
Pauleastbay

Why is Rick Ellis not subject to the OIA and why is the Ombudsman defending him?

Anyone know please
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July 17, 2011 5:42pm
reid

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/phone-hacking/8637942/It-is-in-America-that-Rupert-Murdoch-faces-ruin.html
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July 17, 2011 5:50pm
nasska

mikenmild

So essentially our well being is at the mercy of a tit for tat nuclear type agreement between a few political parties full of self serving arseholes. What have I done to you that I am to go without sleep at nights?

Personally I think that we deserve better restraints on political power.
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July 17, 2011 5:51pm
BlueGriffon

27%
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July 17, 2011 6:01pm
starboard

meh ! G’nite Phil..G’nite liarbor..27 % bawhahah!
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July 17, 2011 6:01pm
mikenmild

nasska

Well, power is actually a lot more constrained now than 30 years ago. MMP has been a big change, so to was the Bill of Rights. If we had a full written constitution, it would probably just hand more power to unelected judges, as in the states. I’d like to see more moves towards direct democracy, especially with modern technology.
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July 17, 2011 6:02pm
kiwisimplexity

‘My mummy’s a criminal’
World class website from Family First NZ.
http://kiwisimplexity.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/%E2%80%98my-mummy%E2%80%99s-a-criminal%E2%80%99/

Who knows this bad man?
Fellow Dunedinites. Let’s start an old fashioned manhunt.
http://kiwisimplexity.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/who-knows-this-bad-man/

Best congestion solution
Innovative Massachusetts-based company Terrafugia has been working on every carlovers wet dream.
http://kiwisimplexity.wordpress.com/2011/07/17/best-congestion-solution/

http://kiwisimplexity.wordpress.com/
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July 17, 2011 6:03pm
Scott Chris

@Rex Widerstrom (4,464) Says:
July 17th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

With all due respect, the democracy you envisage would be gridlocked.
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July 17, 2011 6:23pm
Rex Widerstrom

@nasska:

what is to stop any Government over riding it with a fresh statute?

Mainly convention, but also practicality. If the old Electoral Act said “MPs shall be elected by FPP” the government of the day couldn’t simply introduce an Act which clashed with that, instituting MMP. It needed to rescind or amend the old, entrenched Act.

I would like to see this forum debate your idea of on line referenda, indeed the introduction of binding referenda would allow a degree of democracy unheard of this side of ancient Athens.

Alas a blog really isn’t the place, as new topics come along like buses. I had high hopes that the entry of YourNZ into the political marketplace may act as a catalyst for people asking themselves “could something like that work?” but it needs more effort from a greater number of people. I’d do my bit, including standing for election to give it some profile, but alas the physical distance makes it difficult.

Scott Chris suggests:

the democracy you envisage would be gridlocked.

Are you sure you don’t mean very much slower? In which case I agree. Most legislation would take much longer to pass. Which in my view is far better than the “legislate in haste, amend at leisure” messes our Parliament presently creates.
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July 17, 2011 6:34pm
nasska

Political Correctness is the reason why we can’t have the Ten Commandments displayed in a courthouse. You can’t post text such as “Thou Shalt Not Steal”, “Thou Shalt not Commit Adultery” and “Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness” in a building full of lawyers, judges and civil servants.

It creates a hostile work environment………………
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July 17, 2011 7:01pm
nasska

The agent of a beautiful actress discovered one day that
the actress had been selling her body for $200 a
night. The agent, who had long lusted after her, hadn’t
dreamed that she had been so easily obtainable. He
approached her, told her how much she turned him on, and
how much he wanted to make it with her.

She agreed to spend the night with him but said that he
would have to pay her the same $200 that the other
customers did.

He scratched his head, considered it, and then asked,
“Don’t I even get my agent’s 10% as a deduction?”

“No, siree,” she said. “If you want it, you’re going to have
to pay full price for it just like the other Johns.”

The agent didn’t like that at all, but he agreed.

That night, she came to his apartment after her performance
at a local nightclub. The agent did her at midnight, after
turning out all the lights.

At 1 a.m., she was awakened again. And again, she was
vigorously done. In a little while, she was awakened again,
and again she was made love to again. The actress was
impressed with her lover’s vitality.

“My goodness,” she whispered in the dark, “you are so
virile. I never realized how lucky I was to have you for my
agent.”

“I’m not your agent, lady,” a strange voice answered. “He’s
at the door selling tickets.”
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July 17, 2011 7:34pm
mikenmild

On a different note, Manu Samoa beat Wallabies!
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July 17, 2011 7:42pm
Viking2

I see Adolf has been taking lessons from Helen Clark.

mawm said…

You see Adolf, politicians, and their apologists, obviously have forgotton that primarily they are representatives of the people. Agreed that MMP and list MP’s have changed that – now they represent themselves. Manifesto/smeshto…..it is not worth the paper it is written on.

I expected better of the National Party.

July 17, 2011 6:15 PM
Adolf Fiinkensein said…

Mawn, obviously you have forgotten we have moved on from the nineteenth century.

July 17, 2011 7:13 PM
mawm said…

That is really a shame. Government of the people, by the people and for the people had a nice ring to it.

National Socialism in NZ! History has a way of repeating itself: I’m surprised that you, of all people, support it.

July 17, 2011 7:45 PM
Adolf Fiinkensein said…

Conversation closed.

July 17, 2011 8:22 PM
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July 17, 2011 9:20pm

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