General Debate 8 June 2011

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joana

What has happened to the COGS money which has been reallocated? Is it correct that this money has gone to Black Power and the Mongrel Mob with them being deemed ”hard to reach communities?”
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June 8, 2011 8:14am
Monty

gas the buggers off the roof. No food, water or drink – when they come down into solitaqry for 30 days

dragons
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June 8, 2011 8:14am
Longknives

I wonder what these dropkick Prisoners are ‘protesting’?….Perhaps their underfloor heating isn’t warm enough? Or maybe they didn’t get an upgrade to Sky Digital with all sports channels??
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June 8, 2011 8:19am
Murray

No community in New Zealand is “hard to reach”. The 4.5’s on the frigates can anywhere.
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June 8, 2011 8:21am
Manolo

A trougher asks for a quota-like system:
New Zealand’s first woman prime minister, Dame Jenny Shipley, is calling for a closing of the gap between the number of men and women receiving top Queen’s Birthday honours.

Men dominated the honours this weekend, with twice as many being made Knights compared to Dames, and six times as many being made Companions.

http://m.3news.co.nz/3news-display.aspx?aid=214178&title=Women-largely-missing-from-Queen%E2%80%99s-Honours—Shipley
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June 8, 2011 8:47am
Yvette

Is Christopher Carter still writing his book?
THINGS I KNOW, AND YOU DON’T, ABOUT LABOUR, or
HOW TO USE THE THREAT OF A BOOK TO GET A JOB IN THE UN
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June 8, 2011 8:54am
Viking2

Todays relevant question.

Does Gerry the Minister of considerable Power have a any idea of what’s actually happening?
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June 8, 2011 9:05am
krazykiwi

Just shared a regional flight with ParaKura Horomia. It was late departing as flight operations decided to move some passengers around to ‘trim’ the aircraft 🙂
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June 8, 2011 9:10am
mikenmild

Anything more topical this morning? How about the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report on 1080?
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June 8, 2011 9:35am
flipper

A return to David Bain.
Reading Lindy Chamberlain’s biography over the weekend and last evening, I was struck by the similarity between the Chamberlain and Bain cases, and particular the vitriol and hyperbole that have distorted the views of otherwise rational (DPF included) people. So I say, put aside vitriol and hyperbole and study the following:

September 15, 1988…
The Supreme Court, Northern Territory, Australia
Justice Nader (On behalf of Kearney J. and Austin Asche CJ. both concurring) delivered the Court’s finding on Lindy and Michael Chamberlain. Nader J (after a lengthy dissertation) concluded:

“It is rarely that a criminal trial positively establishes the innocence of an accused person. If it does so, it does so by accident. The task of a criminal court is to ask and answer the question whether it is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty [italics are the court’s emphasis] of the crime charged. If it is not so satisfied, the verdict should be one of ‘not guilty’: i.e., a verdict of acquittal. From the point of view of a criminal court, a verdict of ‘not guilty’ signifies that the jury is not satisfied beyond reasonable doubt of the guilt of the accused; it does not formally signify a positive jury finding that the accused is innocent. Such a positive finding is not the role of a criminal court , nor of this court. That is because under the criminal law a person is presumed innocent until the contrary is proved. It is not the court’s function to establish innocence, because in the absence of a conviction, innocence is presumed: no finding is required. If the accused is not found guilty the presumption of innocence continues. So it is here. I have expressed the opinion that doubt exists as to the guilt of Mrs Chamberlain. I would categorise that doubt as a grave doubt. The doubt has arisen as a result of considering fresh evidence, in particular, the findings of the Commission. It is the existence of that doubt that demands the quashing of the convictions and the verdicts and judgments I propose. The convictions having been wiped away, the law of the land holds the Chamberlains to be innocent. “
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June 8, 2011 9:42am
mikenmild

Most people would regard Lindy Chamberlain to have been definitively proved innocent, rather than justfound not guilty. I’m not sure that is the case for David Bain.
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June 8, 2011 9:47am
Murray

My god mike is right… a bloody dingo did it!
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June 8, 2011 9:52am
cabbage

Anything more topical this morning? How about the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report on 1080?

Blanket the country in the stuff.
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June 8, 2011 9:54am
Murray

Escpecially Auckland… do Auckland a few times.
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June 8, 2011 9:55am
Falafulu Fisi

There will be no job for Chris Carter at the UN at the end of the year (because no money), since US Congress is moving to cut fundings to the UN.
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June 8, 2011 9:57am
Ender

Lefties attacking each other over at The Standard ^_^
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June 8, 2011 9:59am
Murray

Must be a day ending with a y Ender.
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June 8, 2011 10:03am
flipper

Milkenmild …
That is the point. Your view or mine, on guilt or innocence is irrelevant.

Murray …
Probably, but the Third Inquest, while specifically finding that the Chamberlains were not involved, left open the cause of death
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June 8, 2011 10:05am
Murray

They should have checked those fibres for canine DNA I reckon.
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June 8, 2011 10:06am
mikenmild

Flipper

We can all have an opinion, irrelevant or not. In this case, public opinion does seem relevant to me. We can line up a number of people released after having murder convictions overturned. That doesn’t mean we have to consider them all pure and innocent.
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June 8, 2011 10:10am
Ender

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/5114020/Penis-prank-caught-by-Google-satellite

Big ups to the culprit
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June 8, 2011 10:22am
flipper

Milken….
The whole point is that your view, the wider public view, and mine are now all irrelevant.

NZ Courts routinely QUOTE Aus, UK and Canadian definitions and decisions. Sometimes they differ (NZ and UK define “pardon” differently from some Aus states) but more often than not they are similar or identical. It therefore follows, does it not, that Bain is now presumed to be innocent (refer to Court decision above).

Sensible discourse (like we are having) is helpful. Vitriol and hyperbole are not.
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June 8, 2011 10:29am
Murray

Ender I really don’t think some school boy drawing a big dick on his school field really has the cluterla value of ancient religious artifacts that several thousand years old.
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June 8, 2011 10:37am
mikenmild

Flipper

My point is just that most people are still going to regard David Bain as a very different beast from, say, Arthur Allan Thomas. Why is that, if legally they have the same status?
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June 8, 2011 10:42am
Pete George

Anything more topical this morning? How about the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report on 1080?

On NatRad this morning Dunne tried poliwaffling and Nicola Vallance ran rings around him, she knows a bit about what she’s talking about.

Dunne tried to say 1080 hasn’t worked for the last 50 years so should be stopped. He didn’t say what it would be like here if we hadn’t used 1080.

He also said we should foster the possum skin/fur industry and trap and shoot. It’s hard enough keeping them under control with traps in the city. I wonder if he’s ever tried trapping in the middle of Fiordland.
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June 8, 2011 10:48am
mikenmild

Peter Dunne displaying his ignorance. He managed to absorb the short-lived Outdoor Recreation Party a few years ago and since then has tried to speak up in favour of possums and stoats. Is that a dead possum on his head?
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June 8, 2011 10:55am
shady

Thank God there is a taniwha to stop the underground city rail loop in central Auckland!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5114496/Taniwha-in-the-way-of-Auckland-rail-loop

Oh and in reference to the article which suggests how bad the road toll would be without appeasing the Meremere taniwha – Waikato has the worst road toll in the country. Think how much worse it might have been!
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June 8, 2011 11:19am
Longknives

Breaking news just in from the ‘NZ is full of fucking nutters’ desk-

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5114496/Taniwha-in-the-way-of-Auckland-rail-loop
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June 8, 2011 11:20am
Longknives

Aah crap! The scoop of the century and I got beaten to it….
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June 8, 2011 11:21am
starboard

anyone else see that cherry silent T on 3 news this morn blowin on about the govt borrowing an extra 100 mill a week that they dont need? He’s such a smug arse concieted little shit.
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June 8, 2011 11:31am
starboard

“There are always ways to placate taniwha,” Wilcox said”

Bawhahaha! There it is in one..cha ching ! Greedy fuckin natives , when will it end.
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June 8, 2011 11:34am
flipper

Miken…
(Apols for earlier misspelling)

It does not matter what you, I or the great unwashed think.
It is what the law says/means.
We do not determine that.
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June 8, 2011 11:36am
lofty

“You have to placate local demons, deities, taniwha . . . don’t tempt fate. Who knows the number of deaths along the Meremere straight caused by taniwha?” said Walker.

“They are sacred and familiar friends.”

Thank God (or should that be taniwha) that the Maori advisory board was set up with a purpose to bring us such knowledge.
I mean how else would we have known about the dear old taniwha Horotiu who lives just outside here. Yes thats right just outside, yet invisible to mere mortals.

I hesitate to think what the consequences may have been if lyin Len does get his railroad? I mean he could well have been responsible for …….well who knows? but you cannot piss dear old Horotiu off, lets put it that way.

I have heard through the grapevine that dear old Horotiu (it seems like I have known Horotiu for years, almost part of the family don’t you know) )has been watching how the advisory board was put into place, and the funding cut it had to suck up, well for the 1st year anyway, and he will bring wrath and ill fortune on all and sundry of those who do not move to enlarge the boards honeypot in the very near future.
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June 8, 2011 11:50am
flipper

Starboard…
No
Please, do tell
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June 8, 2011 11:56am
Manolo

Stone Age people spousing Stone Age beliefs.
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June 8, 2011 12:05pm
lofty

In my world “You have to placate tooth fairies, Santa Claus, garden pixies . . . don’t tempt fate. Or the Grandchildren will carry out reprisals on Gran & Grandad that cost a fortune in tooth payments, Christmas presents etc etc.
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June 8, 2011 12:11pm
Manolo

With friends like this, who needs enemies?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304432304576371032577629562.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLETopStories
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June 8, 2011 12:15pm
AlphaKiwi

Comedian George Carlin interviewed on how he kept his sanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S54ijXbXIvE&feature=related

A fascinating and intelligent man no matter whether you agree with him or not.
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June 8, 2011 12:30pm
rouppe

Wow, Paula Bennet has found savings of $1,000,000 a week!

1400 said they found work. I wonder when….. Maybe they all found work in the last 2 weeks… I’m sure they were going to let WINZ know straight away…

1000 were no longer eligible. I wonder when they were going to inform WINZ of their changed circumstances…

2600 just couldn’t be bothered with the paperwork for a measly $200 a week
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June 8, 2011 1:31pm
KH

The Taniwha is a deeply spiritual being with mana that must be respected and regarded. It is an important entity beyond the understanding of us mere mortals.
Mind you – a few hundred thousand dollars in the right hands (wink wink), and creation of the few well paid jobs, where people have to turn up, will fix it all just nicely.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5114496/Taniwha-in-the-way-of-Auckland-rail-loop
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June 8, 2011 1:46pm
mikenmild

I think the taniwha issue is a headline grabber to draw attention to Ngati Whatua’s desire to be consulted over such plans.
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June 8, 2011 1:50pm
starboard

Flipper , if you can stomach it go to the strandard..its all there
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June 8, 2011 1:57pm
Rich Prick

Ha! A taniwha in the way of a rail project. That ought to have the odd greenie’s head exploding.
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June 8, 2011 2:44pm
alex Masterley

Didn’t Horotiu move to the Waikato some years back?
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June 8, 2011 2:47pm
Peter

Hughes won’t be charged.
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June 8, 2011 2:56pm
Rich Prick

Not enough evidence.
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June 8, 2011 2:58pm
Johnboy

Wonder if he will get offered a job at the UN?
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June 8, 2011 3:02pm
nasska

I reckon that the ratepayers of Auckland should embrace this Taniwha racket with gusto. This is far too important for mere appeasement of the spirits & Horotiu should be left in eternal peace.

After all there’s $2.6billion at stake & what other possible chance have they of stopping Loopy Len in his tracks?
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June 8, 2011 3:03pm
joana

Queen Eliz awarded Britain’s second highest awards for bravery , the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross , to Acting Sgt. Dipprasad Pun of the Royal Gurkha Rifles.
When stationed as a lone sentry at a checkpoint in Afghanistan’s Helmand Province on Sept 17 , Pun fended off an attack by up to 30 TALIBAN FIGHTERS.
…BEFORE THEY KILL ME, I HAVE TO KILL SOME OF THEM….He did.
During the 15 min battle , he fired more than 400 rounds of ammunition , detonated 17 grenades and a mine and even threw his gun tripod at a Taliban fighter climbing towards his position , according to British Forces News.
Dip , as the medal citation names him , saved the lives of three fellow soldiers and avoided injury himself.
”That he survived unscathed is simply incredible. Thru’out his actions he was under almost constant intense fire. Dip’s courage and gallantry were simply astonishing , his medal citation says.
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June 8, 2011 6:04pm
Pete George

Joana – I wonder what he’d have had to have done to win the highest award for bravery.
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June 8, 2011 6:29pm
Johnboy

Been born a Maori?
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June 8, 2011 6:40pm
Pauleastbay

No Gurka VC winners since 1965, they must have been getting a bit uppity for natives
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June 8, 2011 6:49pm
Johnboy

I blame Joanna Lumley.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Lumley

The Queen is obviously not amused.
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June 8, 2011 6:53pm
nasska

An old priest lay dying in hospital. For years, he had faithfully served the people of Auckland. He motioned for his nurse to come near.
“Yes, Father?” she said.
“I would really like to see Phil Goff & Trevor Mallard before I die,” whispered the priest
“I’ll see what I can do, Father,” said the nurse. The nurse sent the request to the House of Representatives & waited for a response.
Soon the word arrived that Phil & Trevor would be delighted to meet the priest.
As they went to the hospital, Phil commented to Trevor: “I don’t know why the old priest would want to meet us, but it certainly might help our images & even get me elected to Prime Minister. Trevor agreed that it was very good especially if they got press coverage.
When they arrived at the hospital bed the old priest took Phil’s hand in his right hand & Trevor’s hand in his left.
There was a silence & the look of serenity on the priest’s face.
Finally Phil spoke. “Father, of all the people you could have chosen why choose us to be with you as you near the end?”
The Old priest replied slowly: “I have always tried to pattern my life after our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ.”
“Amen” said Phil.
“Amen” said Trevor.
The old priest continued: “He died between two lying bastards. I would like to do the same…”
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June 8, 2011 7:02pm
Johnboy

OffWhiteCreamPuffWithASnitch. Will be glad to see you are laying off the South Auckland jokes nasska.

I trust the old Priest wasn’t from the Otara diocese? 🙂
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June 8, 2011 7:06pm
nasska

Johnboy

I think I’ve stirred up the natives enough for today. Off White with an Attitude lost the plot & copped 20 demerits earlier.

Mind you, I do have a Hone one if you think the thread needs it.
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June 8, 2011 7:10pm
Johnboy

If the world has no real need of a Hone I’m not sure if the thread needs a joke about him.

Still ridicule seems to be one thing he is useful for. Fire away. Watch the demerit monster though. 🙂
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June 8, 2011 7:16pm
Elaycee

C’mon nasska – Hone is an easy target…
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June 8, 2011 7:17pm
nasska

Hone Hawariwa is speaking before a class of children and asks if
anyone can give an example of a tragedy.

One little boy stands up and offers, “If my best friend, who
lives on a farm, is playing in the paddock and a runaway tractor comes
along and knocks him dead, that would be a tragedy.”

“No,” says the Great Hone,” that would be an accident.”

A little girl raises her hand, “If a school bus carrying 50
children drove over a cliff, killing everyone inside, that would be a
tragedy.”

“I’m afraid not,” explains the exalted Maori leader. “That’s
what we would call a great loss.”

The room goes silent. No other children volunteer. Hone’s eyes search
the room. “Isn’t there someone here who can give me an
example of a tragedy?”

Finally at the back of the room Little Johnny raises his hand. In
a quiet voice he says, “If a helicopter carrying you to a hui was shot at
and blown to smithereens, that would be a tragedy.”

“Fantastic!” exclaims Hone, “That’s right. And can you tell
me why that would be tragedy?”

“Well,” says Little Johnny, “because it certainly wouldn’t be a
great loss and it probably wouldn’t be an accident either.”
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June 8, 2011 7:18pm
Elaycee

Ha ha – love it.
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June 8, 2011 7:22pm
Johnboy

Little Johnny. My son. 🙂
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June 8, 2011 7:22pm
side show bob

Brilliant nasska and for your next trick lets see you post it over on the Substandard, be like kicking a wasp nest.

What’s with our pussy liberal government? Bloody hell the poor cops finally get to carry firearms, “in the car, MY GOD”, but in a locked box. For fucks sake what is it with our dumb arse politicians, time the cops open the boot and unlock the stupid firearm box it will be all over red rover. Shit even us idiots in the country don’t lock the firearms up in a bloody box in the fucking car, you never know when you might have to blast something.

Meanwhile I see the Marxist new world order scum residing in the UN are pushing hard for further gun control. These evil bastards want to disarm us all so the sorry fucks can screw us over. They are particularly targeting the US and their second amendment, I’m sure Barry being the good little Marxist muzzie will fully endorse this shit.
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June 8, 2011 7:28pm
Johnboy

Yes I pissed myself laughing when I read that bob. It looks like the new boss is as much of a pussy as Broad was.
They should have a 12G streetsweeper on a clip on the dash ready for instant use. They wouldn’t have to spend so much time at the range before they could hit the shitbags, like they have to with a Glock.
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June 8, 2011 7:39pm
krazykiwi

@ssb, the locked box will only be half of the problem. The balance will be consulting the deployment scenario manual (in two languages) to find the applicable use case, confer and agree with their partner and then have a second, troubling thought about being dragged through endless reviews, police complaints (while being stood down) … and then, then they may reach for they key to said locked box. Or not.
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June 8, 2011 7:52pm
side show bob

Yeah you right there Johnboy, we have actually taught some police in the use of shotguns as far as hitting moving targets. They were very willing learners, unfortunately I doubt if many will ever get to use a shotgun in a law enforcement situation. I myself have no such problems with there use. Have used the cops Glocks but really a waste of time compared with a dose of three or four shot.
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June 8, 2011 7:52pm
nickb

bob – here is my response to them coming for my beretta pumpy:

http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/blogphotos/08/880-from-my-cold-dead-hands.jpg
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June 8, 2011 7:53pm
nasska

SSB

At about what range would a shotgun blast still be lethal?
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June 8, 2011 8:01pm
side show bob

@Krazy, sad but probably true. I fail to understand the mentality of our leaders. Fuck I bet if their useless arses were on the line day after day they would arm themselves to the teeth. Now many more cops deaths do these tossers need before they realise the errors of their ways. Just let the police arm themselves.
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June 8, 2011 8:02pm
Southern Raider

Just watching Campbell Live and laughing at all the liberal greeny Google diagnosing mums who are bitching because they decided to not immunise their kids, but can’t understand why they are banned from going to their school that has a measels oubreak.

Should these dumb arses even be allowed to have children?
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June 8, 2011 8:05pm
side show bob

nassaka, couple of factors. The size and type of shot , basically three types buck, bird , solid. NZ has now adopted the use of steel shot but this does not have the killing power of lead shot as it does not have the mass. Buck shot can vary in size from about 5, 6 mill dia down to very small target shot, maybe half mill. Solid means just that, one solid lead ball, not nice. And bird shot probably more used in 20 gauge weapons. But how far would a lethal shot go. I would say up to 25 meters but depends on where the person was hit and what size buckshot was used. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be hit by one, shotguns can be devastating weapons
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June 8, 2011 8:19pm
Johnboy

Cylinder bored with 00 buckshot about 25 to 35 metres should make the average scumbag lose interest.

Unlike a rifle not as much chance of a collateral like the poor sod on the Auckland motorway.

Anyone that can point, pump and squeeze should be able to hit a human sized target at that range with minimal training unlike being proficient with a pistol which needs constant regular practice.

There are always the other weapons for different situations but a shotgun will make most little scumbags think twice when it is pointing in their direction. 🙂

Standard equipment in the US. Why we never seem to arm the Police with them here has me beat. PC shit I guess.
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June 8, 2011 8:32pm
nasska

Thanks SSB

It’s as I suspected. It wouldn’t pay to be too big a part of the background if the police start shooting.
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June 8, 2011 8:35pm
Johnboy

You can bounce the shot off the road too. That can be quite effective in some crowd situations.
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June 8, 2011 8:43pm
krazykiwi

Speaking of background : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9Lirz2d52s. An oldie but a goodie 🙂
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June 8, 2011 8:44pm
nasska

Thanks Johnboy. My reason far asking was trying to work out where they would be effective. Obviously it would be pretty dicey to use say in a busy street. Certainly they would lower the “resisting arrest” & “escaping from lawful custody” crime figures a bit.
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June 8, 2011 9:00pm
Tauhei Notts

Does anybody else have this problem?
I am getting about 40 spam e mails per hour.
Each morning I must muck out the lot.
It is not easy as, for some unfathomable reason, all e mails from @xtra.co.nz addresses end up in junkmail, so they must all be looked at see that nothing important escapes my attention.
A damned awful time waster.
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June 8, 2011 9:11pm
side show bob

Thanks Krazy bloody funny.
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June 8, 2011 9:29pm
krazykiwi

Look on the bright side Tauhei, if your Nigerian relative has erectile and muscle definition issues, while lacking a degree and an acceptable Swiss watch… you’ll be the go-to guy.
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June 8, 2011 9:42pm
reid

Tauhei I never get it/notice it. There are plenty of ways round it, you using Outlook?

Just check your junk mail settings. Right click on a piece of junk mail, click Junk Mail then follow your nose.

Maybe clear.net filters more efficiently than xtra, but there are plenty of ways.

Anyone that can point, pump and squeeze should be able to hit a human sized target at that range with minimal training unlike being proficient with a pistol which needs constant regular practice.

Johnboy I can pump and squeeze just fine but it’s the pointing I still seem to have trouble with, for some reason…
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June 8, 2011 9:50pm

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Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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