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June 6, 2011 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 6 June 2011

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General Debate

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Johnboy

The Labour party cycling club really worries me.

How the fuck can they ride so fast over the road humps without saddles on their bloody bikes? 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:11pm
nasska

Krazykiwi

Always read the local papers with particular emphasis on cyclists squished on the Hill after skidding in cowshit. Never saw an account of one though.
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June 6, 2011 3:11pm
laworder

Pete George
Have had a look at the Your NZ site and the Facebook page, and admire what you are trying to acheive.
I do think you are on the right track with both the concept and the site itself – I also like the plain and uncluttered design, very straightforward and unpretentious, you dont let fancy design frills obstruct the message, and as a result it has good usability

I have a few policy concepts I’d like to submit soon if I get time, and I need to get my Round Tuit back off the person I unwisely loaned it to

Regards
Peter
see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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June 6, 2011 3:13pm
Johnboy

Yeh! 5000. and I got it picking on scabby arseholes!!!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

How are your injuries coming along Trev? 🙂 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:14pm
Rex Widerstrom

Oh, and further on Aristotle, as Wikipedia reminds us, according to what he wrote in “Politics” he believed:

…the acquisition of property does not form a part of household management… criticizing those who take it too seriously… He criticizes income based upon trade and says that those who become avaricious do so because they forget that money merely symbolizes wealth without being wealth.

So he’d not look out of place at a Green party mung-bean munch-in. While

Aristotle’s Ethics states that the good of the individual is subordinate to the good of the city-state

So he’d also have been quite happy with a seat at Helen Clark’s Cabinet table.

So we’re taking seriously the opinion of Nanny Statist hippies now? 😀
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June 6, 2011 3:15pm
reid

Your forbearance at not wanting to angrily squash me like a bug because you’ll be 20seconds later to your next destination would help keep those costs down.

Oh I know that kk. Unfortunately I’m still unsure how helping you live longer (because your health costs are only delayed, not avoided) is a benefit to me, but anyway, yes one understands it is normally only a matter of seconds consequently one is always quite relaxed even when comes upon an inconsiderate cyclist on say a narrow hairpin who slows down the whole line for a minute or so, even then one is always quite relaxed. I just pop in my “Sunshine and Lollipops” CD and sing-along, with a gay tra-la-la at the end. It’s a lot of fun.
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June 6, 2011 3:15pm
nasska

Johnboy

I reckon it’s the long practice hours spent on swiss balls that hardens them up.
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June 6, 2011 3:16pm
laworder

krazykiwi wrote

I drive a 5.5L 4×4 one day and ride a bike the next. No sneering from me. I love my car.

Have an old Cadillac with 500 cubic inch V8 (not sure exactly what that is in litres, about 8.4 I think) hence my enthusiasm for commuter cycling 🙂 Driving to work every day in a car that get 4mpg around town doesnt really make all that much sense

Regards
Peter
see http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz
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June 6, 2011 3:17pm
Pauleastbay

So we’re taking seriously the opinion of Nanny Statist hippies now

Good point Rex, he was basically just a school teacher, upper cut to me
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June 6, 2011 3:20pm
reid

Dear Abby

What I particuarly loath about bloody cyclists is I’m driving along ,see a cyclist and think, ‘thats not a bad arse on her there ” and then get up beside it and see its some bloke from the footy club… does this happen to antone else or is just me…….?

Dear Paul

The really important thing is what you were actually thinking of doing to that arse. You might not want to share that with us but that’s what you should be asking yourself.

Kind regards

Abby
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June 6, 2011 3:20pm
Rex Widerstrom

laworder:

I have two 110dB airhorns fed with small refillable bottles…

Considering I was talking about having my park-walking idyll interrupted by a silly bell, if you blew one of those at me from behind I’d simply extend my walking cane at neck height as you went by. And after seeing my ECG taken shortly after the incident, no court in the country would convict me 😛

Johnboy:

Fucking the duopoly that is Progressive and Foodies would go down well here Rex.

I’d tend to agree. And once we’d got some competition into the supermarket market, we’d start on the fuel companies, the power companies… It’s our damned economy and we’ll do what we like with it thanks. If the UN or WTO some such don’t like it, we have a special UN representative for Listening to Brutal Third World Dictators Criticise New Zealand. Name’s Hulun, I believe…
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June 6, 2011 3:23pm
Jimbob

“It’s error alone which needs the support of Government. Truth can stand by itself.”
Thomas Jefferson.

Ring any bells Nick Smith?
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June 6, 2011 3:25pm
Johnboy

Be sarky if you like Rex. You have obviously never had to deal with the turds that inhabit both their houses! 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:29pm
Pete George

laworder (Peter) @ 3.13pm

Thanks. Any input welcome. It’s basically a template for involvement in the political process, with democratic representation being the core requirement.
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June 6, 2011 3:29pm
Johnboy

Grocery was better when the Arkwright’s run it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoP8hc8lZ5s&feature=related
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June 6, 2011 3:31pm
Elaycee

@ Johnboy – well done on your 5000.

Illegitimi non carborundum. 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:34pm
nasska

Johnboy

Congrats on the 5K milestone. I hope the next 5K knock a few more arseholes off their perches.
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June 6, 2011 3:35pm
krazykiwi

Ooooooo tempting … but…. no! 🙂

And yes, congrats on the milestone Johnboy
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June 6, 2011 3:38pm
Johnboy

Elaycee: Gratias ago vos vetus chap vel chapess.

Is eram a propinquus run res per umbra of dominica Monasteriense lurking sic . 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:40pm
Johnboy

I’m quite keen on demounting arrogant arseholes from their self entitled Lordships nasska. 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:43pm
krazykiwi

Latin now? I kinda like te audire non possum. musa sapientum fix est in aure which roughly translates ‘I can’t hear you. I have a banana in my ear’. Source lingua lacina multo pluribus occasionibus
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June 6, 2011 3:45pm
Johnboy

Thanks KK.

(Don’t tell anyone but I always give way to cyclists).

Wouldn’t want my reputation as an asshole tainted or anything. 🙂
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June 6, 2011 3:46pm
Johnboy

I really prefer speaking French to Yvette but she is not here. Sob!
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June 6, 2011 3:48pm
Bevan

Katter is a nob.

– Significantly increase customs duty on products coming into Australia; and

Yeah, cue tit for tat import duties from other countries, not to mention how Aussie will look at the WTO when this nob heads policies break existing trade treaties…

Katter comes across as a few cans short of a six pack, unfortunately he has the comfort of creating policies that the brain dead low IQ locals in his electorate will love – lucky for him he knows he’ll never have to deal with the impact of actually implementing them.
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June 6, 2011 3:50pm
Rex Widerstrom

Johnboy says:

Be sarky if you like Rex.

Oh gawd I was being serious… and even Johnboy takes me for a maniac. Time for a lie down 😯
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June 6, 2011 4:03pm
Johnboy

Sorry Rex. I’m installing new games on the wife’s laptop!

And not reading very carefully.

I should have realised.

You are almost always serious. 🙂
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June 6, 2011 4:08pm
krazykiwi

@Johnboy – Some delightful French, courtesy of the 12th Man. Jump to 5:30. His butchery of that magnificent language is priceless.
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June 6, 2011 4:15pm
nasska

…”Sorry Rex. I’m installing new games on the wife’s laptop!”….

Could be tricky….
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June 6, 2011 4:15pm
Rex Widerstrom

Bevan:

Yeah, cue tit for tat import duties from other countries

Yeah, the Chinese are totally going to make Australian iron ore, magnetite, nickel, uranium etc etc more expensive to its domestic market. They’ve already tried every trick in the book to gain ownership of the mining companies (striking when the economy was going through the GFC then, when they were rebuffed, trying to organise a world boycott, which fell flat) so as to make imported minerals less expensive, so they’re undoubtedly going to respond to tariffs on their knock-off TVs by making minerals more expensive.

Australia is far better positioned to control its destiny than is NZ, which basically has little that is rare, sought-after and in large quantities. It could pretty much do as it liked and the world would still keep importing its minerals.

not to mention how Aussie will look at the WTO when this nob heads policies break existing trade treaties…

Oh right, because we wouldn’t want to be looked down upon by Zimbabwe, Venezuela or that well-known exporter Colombia, not to mention France, who sits on the WTO telling everyone else what to do while still hiding behind layers of protectionism.
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June 6, 2011 4:20pm
Elaycee

@ Johnboy: “I really prefer speaking French to Yvette but she is not here. Sob!”

Are you ‘two timing’ Penny? I thought she was the true love of your life. She’s still furiously making you some barbed wire to keep the trespassers off your gold claim down by the Wainui river. Didn’t you exchange numbers so you can breathe heavily at each other? I thought you were the real deal??

But I’m not going to get into a battle of wits with her; I never attack anyone who’s unarmed.
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June 6, 2011 4:20pm
Johnboy

Thanks KK. As Richie said. ” I’ve always been good at languages, It’s not that hard really.

I can identify with that. 🙂
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June 6, 2011 4:31pm
Johnboy

Bitch hasn’t come up with a bloody inch Elaycee.

I’m doing the same at the moment.
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June 6, 2011 4:32pm
Sonny Blount

krazykiwi (6,885) Says:
June 6th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Oh reid, where to start?!? Nope not going to .. other than challenge your assertion that my fitness is a selfish pursuit. I’m saving you future health costs. Your forbearance at not wanting to angrily squash me like a bug because you’ll be 20seconds later to your next destination would help keep those costs down.

1. The roading network is not a personal gym. It might be useful for other purposes but beyond transportation and the safety of those involved in that activity it is an irrelevant point.

2. The tyranny of socialized medicine does not give the state or other citizens the moral authority to control peoples activity. Until I’m able to withold my tax contribution to healthcare and get it elsewhere, I have no obligation to suffer a poorly performing transport infrastructure to control your health costs
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June 6, 2011 4:41pm
Elaycee

Thought that’d be the case Johnboy – no surprises really.

I’d probably find her more interesting had I studied psychology.
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June 6, 2011 4:43pm
Sonny Blount

June 6th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
“Two cyclists travelling abreast get the same room as one. They can decide how to share it.”

That is a moronic thing to say. The road code allows cyclists to travel 2-abreast. Still, once you kill someone remember that line for your defence.

Not if there is traffic following at less than the speed limit.

Read the rest of the road code.
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June 6, 2011 4:49pm
krazykiwi

Sonny – so, in your humble opinion, ‘the road’ can be used for driving to work, visiting friends, moving heavy equipment, shopping trips, moving cattle, dropping the kids at school, leisurely sunday drives … but not for cycling because it has a personal fitness outcome? Damn, will just have to cycle to work and eat a offset pie to keep you happy.

I agree with you that socialised medicine is a tryanny, but not sure of the point you’re trying to make.
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June 6, 2011 4:55pm
krazykiwi

Not if there is traffic following at less than the speed limit. Read the rest of the road code.

Show me where the speed limit is the minimum allowable speed. Please.
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June 6, 2011 4:56pm
krazykiwi

It’s fascinating to watch the angry drivers come out here and vent. Still, every post here is another few seconds you’re not out trying to teach cyclists a lesson from the safety of your 2+ tonnes of fast-moving steel.
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June 6, 2011 4:58pm
stephen

But, humble fellow that he is, he acknowledges this depth of wisdom is insufficient and thus quotes an actress:

As Cate Blanchett put it this week…

There’s a cartoon in The Australian today where – I hope I got this right as it was a few hours ago – they decide to use Cate Blanchett to appear in the campaign ‘and ignore an actual climate scientist that we have here’. The scientist is used to it, however.
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June 6, 2011 5:00pm
Sonny Blount

Of course its ok to use the road for other purposes krazykiwi, but its function as personal gym is irrelevant to how traffic is managed.

The road code says if you are traveling less than the speed limit then you must immediately pull over to allow any vehicle traveling less than the speed limit to pass you. traveling 2 abreast is not pulling over.

The only reason I can think of to ride 2 abreast is to chat with your mate, and again as with my previous point, the road networks function as a social venue is subservient to its efficiency and safety for transport. Otherwise I’ll have my cellphone back in my car please.
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June 6, 2011 5:02pm
Sonny Blount

Krazykiwi, I’m a cyclist as well. Just not a suicidal one which is why since moving to Wellingotn from Christchurch I no longer commute to work on one.

I manage to keep fit by running before or after work and playing sports. And I socialize with my mates at suitable venues such as cafes during lunch or the weekends.
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June 6, 2011 5:08pm
krazykiwi

Sonny, the road code does not require any vehicle to immediately pull over as you have suggested. IIRC there is some directive about a queue forming behind any road user, but to direct ‘immediately’ implies that we have a ‘vehicle in front gives way to vehicle behind law’ .. which we don’t.

On a good many NZ roads there isn’t room for a car to safely pass a single cycle without moving partly into the oncoming lane. This makes the manoeuvre a passing one. If there are 20 cyclists in single file the passing manoeuvre is twice the length it would be if they were riding in single file. That is, I believe, the rationale for the two abreast law.

None of this makes it acceptable for cyclists (or scooters, or granny, or whoever…) to hold up traffic. For my part, I want drivers like you, reid, MT_Tinman, nasska et al past as quickly as possible. Every fuming second that ticks by poses more of a risk to my health and safety.

FWIW I want my cellphone back too. It’s not possible to regulate every aspect of driver attentiveness (or cyclist sensibleness) so it was stupid to pick on cellphones. I watched a driver drop an ice-cream cone into their lap while driving last week. The result was a very inattentive driver and very nearly an accident.
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June 6, 2011 5:18pm
big bruv

Why are so many National party cheer leaders (Adolf and Pauleastbay being just two) spending so much time attacking a party to the right of them?

I guess it is because they are quite at home being part of a center left political party.

A small part of me would not mind seeing the Nat’s go down just so I can hear the pissing and moaning from Adolf and co.
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June 6, 2011 5:21pm
reid

For my part, I want drivers like you, reid, MT_Tinman, nasska et al past as quickly as possible. Every fuming second that ticks by poses more of a risk to my health and safety.

Didn’t you read my 3:15 on Sunshine and Lollipops, kk? I play that all the time. It keeps me calm, happy and gay, all at the same time. It’s wonderful.

I kinda wish you cyclists would just get the fuck off the road so I could stop listening to it, but that’s OK, it’s part of the sacrifice I make to ensure the personal safety of you and people like you, every single day. You’re welcome.
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June 6, 2011 5:29pm
Yvette

Johnboy – Pont d’Avignon or Pont Saint-Bénezet?
where the shepherd boy commanded by angels to build a bridge across the river, so there is your connection to sheep again, but with the lack of co-operation from Air New Zealand, would this be one way of meeting you without the flocking moutons?
Are you interested in the bicycle built for two?
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June 6, 2011 5:31pm
Pauleastbay

Bruv

Firstly,There’ll be no pissing and moaning from this direction for at least another 6 – 9 years.

Secondly the party to the right of National is presently taking the form of Frankinsteins Monster due to the mongrel make up of its candidature and the ACT list must draw more pensions than NZ First’s party membership.

Thirdly, a lot of commentators here bang on about the same old faces , the same tired statements from labour, so excuse me if Don Brash, Banksie and co are not exactly lighting my fire with new ideas and the prospect of something different. Banksie has been around longer than Goff.

I like Banksie just for his attitude but he can offer ACT and the New Zealand people nothing, nor can Brash, he is not a politician FFS, being clever does not make you capable of handling Wellington, he couldn’t do it last time and nothing will change.
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June 6, 2011 5:32pm
krazykiwi

Yes reid I did.. and thanks! Keep up the singing.. perhaps we should keep an eye out for you on Eastbourne’s Got Talent 😉
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June 6, 2011 5:33pm
Rex Widerstrom

All this talk of cycling and singing makes me think we’re on the cusp of NZ’s Got Talent’s newest phenomenon – the Kiwiblog Male Voice Choir.

Altogether now lads…

“Im a cy-ca-list but I’m okay
I might wear lycra but I’m not gay…”
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June 6, 2011 5:39pm
reid

All good points Paul which brings it back to: if not them, then who?

Unfortunately I can’t see anyone with the vision to implement what needs to be done. No-one. Nada.

I’m a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat, that isn’t there.
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June 6, 2011 5:44pm
krazykiwi

Yes yes Rex… but reid keep suggesting he is (gay), which has me wondering if he’s angling for a UN job 🙂
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June 6, 2011 5:45pm
Bevan

Yeah, the Chinese are totally going to make Australian iron ore, magnetite, nickel, uranium etc etc more expensive to its domestic market. They’ve already tried every trick in the book to gain ownership of the mining companies (striking when the economy was going through the GFC then, when they were rebuffed, trying to organise a world boycott, which fell flat) so as to make imported minerals less expensive, so they’re undoubtedly going to respond to tariffs on their knock-off TVs by making minerals more expensive.

Australia is far better positioned to control its destiny than is NZ, which basically has little that is rare, sought-after and in large quantities. It could pretty much do as it liked and the world would still keep importing its minerals.

How do you like those Apples Rex?

You are making the mistake thinking that Australia ONLY exports Iron Ore and ONLY to China.

If Australia slaps import duties and restrictions on goods entering their country – you can guarantee other countries like Japan, NZ, USA etc will slap exports on Australian goods imported into their country. Or they can expect another expensive trip to the WTO. Once the world cottons on to Aussie, I can see the world snubbing Australian exports – the country has this mentality that it can ban imports from other countries, yet its own exports should be freely accepted! Why should a country accept imports from Australia without restriction when Australia wont freely accept their exports?

Oh I can just see Katter trying to slap import duties on new cars from Japan or Sth Korea to protect local manufacture – he’d end up making the country look like a fucken laughing stock!
“OK Mr Katter slap that duty on new car imports – now lets talk about the duty we are going to slap on Australian produce imports into Japan..” What do you think the locals in Katters own electorate would think of that?

Oh thats right, they’d just force price increases onto the local population – can you say $20/kg for banana’s?
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June 6, 2011 5:48pm
nasska

krazykiwi

I understand MT_Tinman to be an experienced taxi driver. For myself I drove trucks for about 25 years although that was a few tears back. When you spend over half your waking life on the road you tend to concentrate on what is going on around you, you know what part of your vehicle is where & eventually you treat every other road user as a potential drunken imbecile. If you didn’t you would kill or maim people on a regular basis & you & your insurance company would part company very early in the piece.

Therefore you are incorrect to presume that I’m some sort of deadly menace to cyclists, be they arrogant bastards who inconvenience everyone else because they “know” they have the right to. Alternatively they may just be thick. Either way I had no intention of paying fines or losing my license (& my income).

Nothing above should disqualify me from having an opinion on the road manners displayed by road lice.
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June 6, 2011 5:49pm
Yvette

Between my legs is a rod of steel
Joins the front to my back wheel
I’m a cy-ca-list but I’m okay
 I love my saddle, but I’m not gay

I wear lycra, but with high heels
Fondle my handle bars
See how it feels
It’s a sensation, I’d not miss
Anything to take the piss, out of Chris.

yours again, Rex
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June 6, 2011 5:52pm
Pauleastbay

………….: if not them, then who?…

I don’t like quick radical change, to me that smacks of panic,. as a country we are too small,economically too small and in many ways in mind very small for a “revolution”

National were left with a pile of shit, just like they always are, then there was a world wide recession and then an earthquake in ChCh ( personally I am very worried about the fucking around thats going on down there, 15 months to knock one poxy hotel, please…..)

Just don’t panic, the ACT geriatrics don’t have a quick fix answer either, lots of talk but nothing concrete
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June 6, 2011 5:54pm
krazykiwi

@nasska – I’m hopefully one of the sensible cyclists and, FWIW, I have infinitely more faith in the driving skills of a professional driver of any sort. A 1.5 tonne car can turn a me into a greasy spot on the road just as quickly as would a 30 tonne road haulage monster. The difference is the driver.

To your point “be they arrogant bastards who inconvenience everyone else because they “know” they have the right to”. I don’t know of any cyclist who deliberately sets out to inconvenience road traffic. It could be a lens of intolerance that makes you believe this to be the case.
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June 6, 2011 6:02pm
reid

…don’t panic

You realise Paul coincidentally those were the very words chosen for the cover of the Hitchhiker’s Guide? I feel much better now….

Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that’s wonderful is what I feel when we’re together,
Brighter than a lucky penny,
When you’re near the rain cloud disappears, dear,
And I feel so fine just to know that you are mine.

My life is sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, [That’s how this refrain goes, so come on, join in everybody!]

Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that’s wonderful is sure to come your way
When you’re in love to stay…
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June 6, 2011 6:07pm
Sonny Blount

Krazykiwi,

The road code requires any vehicle with traffic following at less than the speed limit to pull over at the first available opportunity to allow them to pass.
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June 6, 2011 6:09pm
reid

if he’s angling for a UN job

I wonder which one he’ll get and I also wonder whether he was wise announcing whatever it was he announced before it’s actually happened?

Let’s hope he wasn’t for the sake of the entire world. After all what sort of value could someone like Chris Carter really truly add to a tremendous dynamic organisation like the U.N?
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June 6, 2011 6:19pm
Pauleastbay

Yep Reid and the answer is 42 so there is no need to panic, JK and co will see us through and the good thing is even when he retires he will still be too young to bludge a pension off of us hard done by tax payers.
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June 6, 2011 6:22pm
krazykiwi

The road code requires any vehicle with traffic following at less than the speed limit to pull over at the first available opportunity to allow them to pass

@Sonny, I maintain that “…the road code does not require any vehicle to immediately pull over as you have suggested. IIRC there is some directive about a queue forming behind any road user, but to direct ‘immediately’ implies that we have a ‘vehicle in front gives way to vehicle behind law’ .. which we don’t.”

Do you have a reference to back up your claim? If you do then 10’s of thousands of road users would breach this regulation every day. The revenue gathering opportunities for the constabulary would be outstanding.
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June 6, 2011 6:25pm
Steve

Sonny @ 6.09
‘The road code requires any vehicle with traffic following at less than the speed limit to pull over at the first available opportunity to allow them to pass’

A Bicycle is not a registered Vehicle so is therefore trespassing on the road.
Get out of my fucking way until you help pay for roads via registration, until then you have the same rights as pedestrians
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June 6, 2011 6:31pm
nasska

reid

…”After all what sort of value could someone like Chris Carter really truly add to a tremendous dynamic organisation like the U.N?”….

Balance??? The UN may be overrun by quiet, humble heterosexual men.
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June 6, 2011 6:31pm
krazykiwi

@Steve, don’t take up law.
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June 6, 2011 6:39pm
reid

Good point nasska. I think the UN probably needs lots more gay people who do what Chris has done.

I wonder if the interview included any questions on what caused his political career to end?
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June 6, 2011 6:42pm
nasska

Reid

I think that the answer to the question of how his career ended could be interchangeable with the one asking him why he thought he could fit in with the culture of the UN.
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June 6, 2011 6:47pm
Elaycee

@ krazykiwi Says 6.02pm: …”I don’t know of any cyclist who deliberately sets out to inconvenience road traffic. It could be a lens of intolerance that makes you believe this to be the case.”

You clearly wear blinkers. Cyclists who ride two abreast are, be definition inconveniencing traffic if they occupy an entire lane and travel along at 20kph in an area that has been designated with a limit of 50kph – the same speed that the rest of the road users maintain. If traffic is unable to safely pass, then they are, of course inconvenienced. If you struggle to believe it, then you haven’t witnessed the antics of the Saturday morning pelaton in East Auckland who take over full lanes of arterial roads. And I’m sure it’s the same elsewhere – we don’t have an exclusivity clause in Auckland.

I’m also interested to understand your view of cyclists that pass on the inside (effectively creating their own lane) at traffic lights and then complain bitterly when the car in the left lane makes a legal left turn when the lights turn green. What about the cyclists who ignore red lights and just proceed through at the first opportunity? And what about the idiot who held on to the wing of my car and got a ‘tow’ for nearly a hundred metres as I moved off from lights? If I had braked heavily and I had run him over, would you have assumed automatically that I was in the wrong?

If you still think that this view somehow represents a ‘lens of intolerance’, then I will be correctly assuming that you are just another lycra clad Tour De Farce lookalike who thinks that they own the road space they occupy and bugger anyone else.
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June 6, 2011 6:48pm
Manolo

Why are so many National party cheer leaders (Adolf and Pauleastbay being just two) spending so much time attacking a party to the right of them?

Adolf is the ultimate sycophant. For him Key walks on water and will never be wrong. Misguided loyalty to the nth degree.
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June 6, 2011 6:57pm
big bruv

Pauleastbay

If you are so happy with Neville Key and the Nat’s then why not go the whole hog and just vote Labour?

Come on..admit that you are really a socialist in disguise

Come to think of it, so is Adolf, the only reason he sticks with the Farmers party….sorry, I mean the Nat’s is because the Nat’s will always use tax payer funds to bail out the rural sector or ensure their is a tax system that means Farmers pay fuck all tax.
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June 6, 2011 7:00pm
krazykiwi

I’m also interested to understand your view of cyclists that pass on the inside (effectively creating their own lane) at traffic lights and then complain bitterly when the car in the left lane makes a legal left turn when the lights turn green. [KK: They are idiots] What about the cyclists who ignore red lights and just proceed through at the first opportunity? [KK: breaking a law and should be accountable] And what about the idiot who held on to the wing of my car and got a ‘tow’ for nearly a hundred metres as I moved off from lights? [KK: Also breaking the law] that If I had braked heavily and I had run him over, would you have assumed automatically that I was in the wrong? [KK: I wouldn’t assume anything.. but by your account the cyclist would have been in the wrong]

No, I don’t own the road. But the consequence of a mishap – whoever is to ‘blame’ – is 100x more significant for me so I have no hesitation for speaking up, on my behalf, and that of a friend who is dead right now… thanks to a driver who decided something other than concentrating on the road was rather important.

Oh, forgot to mention. I saw a cyclist being given a ticket the other evening. He was riding without sufficient lighting and I applauded as I rode past the police checkpoint. Perhaps steve would have preferred the cyclist (and me!) arrested for trespass, but the police seems to let me go.
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June 6, 2011 7:02pm
Pauleastbay

Bruv

Other than the rural sector what sector in NZ at the moment is really contributing positively to the NZ economy?, seriously, name it and then give me a percentage as to how it compares with Fonterra

We are a rural based economy, always have been and always will be. NZ farmers were cut adrift in 1984 and managed to adapt positively and you are banging on about some article printed last week saying farmers pay bugger all tax. A very moot point by the way.

Next question, where is Don going to generate income i.e what indutsry will he help to generate tax income, sufficent to alleivate our tax burden ? What is he going to do?
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June 6, 2011 7:12pm
Steve

@ krazykiwi

You like using the road without paying huh? Bicyclists are freeloaders. Motorcyclists pay, but somehow Bicyclists have this right to use something that others pay for. Fucking socialists again.
Why do cyclists have to wear clothing to show baby stud ram attributes, or camel toes?
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June 6, 2011 7:14pm
big bruv

Paul

Nobody doubts that Farming is the backbone of the economy. My point has always been that farming party always bang on about personal responsibility yet they are the same one who rush to bail out the farming community when there is a flood or drought.

As always it is middle NZ who get fucked over, it does not matter if Labour are in or the Farmers party have the treasury benches.

And BTW…are you seriously suggesting that farmers should be treated as a spacial case when it comes to tax?
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June 6, 2011 7:21pm
Elaycee

@krazykiwi – Not sure where you live, but if in a City, I suggest you stand at an arterial intersection in peak times and observe the antics of cyclists. I doubt that you’ll be impressed.

Now I’m not saying NZ drivers are good by any means – on average they are terrible. But unless you can accept that pelatons on city streets / the idiots that persist in riding two abreast on arterial roads and the idiots who ignore the rules of the road may actually be the catalyst for much of the adverse comment directed at cyclists, then perhaps you are a paid up member of your own club that provides your personalised ‘lens of intolerance’ as part of the lifetime membership.

By the way – I’m not sure that the Road Code that you have referred to in this thread actually says that a cyclist can ‘applaud’ as they ride along because, by definition the act of applauding would require you to take both hands of the handlebars! Perhaps you can point out where the Road Code says riding in such a manner is lawful – thanks.
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June 6, 2011 7:21pm
krazykiwi

@Pauleastbay – I hope he doesn’t ‘help’ any industry. Governments are routinely poor at picking winners, and should stay away. They should create an environment where innovators and entrepreneurs (of all scales) are encouraged to risk their own capital to start and grow businesses. That you believe it’s necessary for the government to ‘help’ industries is evidence of how far left National really have moved.
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June 6, 2011 7:21pm
krazykiwi

@Elaycee – Nowhere in the road code does it direct how a cyclists should hang on to the handlebars. Try again.
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June 6, 2011 7:23pm
Yvette

Johnboy, condoléances
mais Shrek a eu le sien quinze minutes et davantage
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June 6, 2011 7:26pm
Elaycee

@krazykiwi.

You still wonder why cyclists have a disproportionate number of accidents on the road???
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June 6, 2011 7:31pm
Pauleastbay

Bruv re special tax…not at all, farmers pay lots of tax but it is a very different industry.

e.g recent flooding in the BOP and East Cost, – kilometers of fencing and drains destroyed- do the cockies have insurance for this, no they don’t its spending hopefully they have rainy day (poor taste) money for – money directly out of their cheque accounts as opposed to a Wellington building that looses its roof insurance take s care of it.

Krazy, good points, you said it just right, – by help – creating the atmosphere – thats what I was trying to say , So, what is Don going to do to create this environemnt?
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June 6, 2011 7:34pm
nasska

The following is from the NZTA site:

# Always ride as near as you can to the left side of the road. If you are holding back traffic you must move as far as possible to the left side of the road to allow traffic to pass, as soon as you can. However, you do need to cycle in a sensible position on the road to keep safe. See Cyclist responsibilities for more information.
# Two cyclists can ride next to each other but should take into account the keep left rule and not hold back traffic. Three or more people cycling next to each other is illegal, except in the case of a road race that has been given traffic management approval from a road controlling authority.

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/cyclist-code/about-cycling/rules.html
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June 6, 2011 7:35pm
Elaycee

@ Thanks nasska – saved me from doing it.
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June 6, 2011 7:39pm
Pauleastbay

Oh to have some population

Sitting here watching a game of baseball, Jose Reyes is trying to get a seven year contract worth 142 million USD

Thats 125,220 USD per game over 1134 games, thats not bad
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June 6, 2011 7:46pm
krazykiwi

@nasska – Thanks for posting that. I ride like this. I’d also note that drivers can’t always be reasonably expected to establish what is “a sensible position on the road to keep safe” is for cyclists. For example, I’ll ride an open-door width to the right of a line of parked cars unless I can 100% establish that all the cars are empty. The risk of being ‘doored’ and subsequently run over is simple too great. But to motorists this can just look like I’m unreasonably hogging the road. Also, the road verge is often unsuitable for cyclists. Rutted, pot holed, and filled with crap can make this narrow bit of road dangerous. Some of the obstacles I’ve had to dodge include broken bottles, whole bottles, pallet strapping, nappies, cans, toasters (true!). None of these pose any great threat to motorists… but they’re a potentially mortal threat to cyclists.
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June 6, 2011 7:49pm
Elaycee

@krazykiwi

Interesting that the NZ Police’s own Guide Book on School Road Safety (Google: 264678 Police Guide Book.indd if you want a pdf copy) says that riding a bike with no hands is “unsafe” and is actively discouraged.

But lycra clad cyclists who adopt a “its my piece of road and you can all get stuffed” attitude, can do what they like.

Of course. Explains everything.
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June 6, 2011 7:54pm
big bruv

Paul

So to sum it up…Farmers should pay very little tax, run to the tax payer when their business hits tough times and constantly remind the rest of us that we should all take personal responsibility for our actions.

Yep..that sounds like Labour lite to me…..
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June 6, 2011 8:02pm
nasska

CLEVER SCAM – taking advantage of older men

Women often receive warnings about protecting themselves at the
mall and in dark parking lots, etc. This is the first warning I have
seen for men. I wanted to pass it on in case you haven’t heard about it. This
will only become more commonplace as the weather warms.

A ‘heads up’ for those men who may be regular Bunnings, Carters or Mitre 10 Mega
customers. This one caught me by surprise.

Over the last month I became a victim of a clever scam while out
shopping. Simply going out to get supplies has turned out to be quite traumatic.
Don’t be naive enough to think it couldn’t happen to you or your friends.

Here’s how the scam works:

Two seriously good-looking 20-something girls come over to your car as
you are packing your shopping into the trunk. They both start wiping your
windshield with a rag and Windex, with their breasts almost falling out
of their skimpy T-shirts. It is impossible not to look. When you thank
them and offer them a tip, they say ‘No’ and instead ask you for a ride to
McDonalds.

You agree and they get into the back seat. On the way, they start
undressing. Then one of them climbs over into the front seat and starts
crawling all over you, while the other one steals your wallet. I had my
wallet stolen June 4th, 9th, 10th, twice on the 15th,17th, 20th, 24th, &
29th. Also July 1st & 4th, twice on the 8th, 16th, 23rd, 26th & 28th,
three times last Monday and very likely again this upcoming weekend.

So tell your friends to be careful. What a horrible way to take
advantage of older men. Warn your friends to be vigilant.

The Warehouse has wallets on sale for $2.99 each. I found cheaper ones for
$1.99 at K- Mart and bought them out. Also, you never will get to
eat at McDonalds. I’ve already lost 5kg just running back
and forth to Bunnings, Carters & Mitre 10 Mega.
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June 6, 2011 8:15pm
krazykiwi

Well shit Elaycee, I’m impressed. Hope you scoured back issues of Boys Own Annual and Scout’s guide books too. On the plus side you’re now qualified to lead cycle safety in schools. Well done.
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June 6, 2011 9:56pm
slijmbal

I’ve biked a lot but a confirmed car-ie. Biking is great in flat urban areas as it’s often faster and more convenient than cars – less issues parking for instance but needs to a pretty compact area. Lived in 3 places I could bike and a couple I couldn’t. I class Auckland as a place I couldn’t…. not if I want to live.

I’m normally a car driver but wanted to reduce the size of my belly. Bought the obligatory 300 speed bike to get up the tour de france hills and finally gave it away on the 3rd time someone took me out. It made no difference what I wore in terms of brightness, flashing lights, it was like I was invisible. The fact that the average kiwi driver is awful, selfish and dangerous and is basically murder on wheels for a cyclist means only suicidal maniacs should bike. The standard dreadful kiwi driving standards were also shown in great light by the cyclists. You swear a decent percentage wanted to die under the wheels of an oncoming truck. But on balance I would say that the bikers bike better than the drivers drive.
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June 6, 2011 10:30pm
Manolo

More warmist lunacy: http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFLDE75407H20110605?sp=true
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June 7, 2011 6:59am
Manolo

This is to have cheek: http://money.msn.co.nz/article.aspx?id=8257817

Law graduate sues school after not finding job.
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June 7, 2011 7:49am
Elaycee

@krazykiwi – don’t be daft. You said there was nothing in the Road Code that dissuaded against riding with hands free / said that it was OK to ride two abreast and the necessity to keep to the left and NOT impede the flow of traffic etc was somehow linked to the condition of the road. Sounded like bullshit to me so I looked it up whilst nasska posted the correct excerpt from the Road Code.

The Police (backed by the LTSA) tell our kids as part of their road safety messages that riding a bike with hands off, is not safe. Nasska also provided the excerpts from the Road Code that shot down your other arguments about riding two abreast / impeding the flow of traffic etc. But you still think your version is the right one?? Good on ya.

If you want to post daft claims, then it may be an idea to make sure that your argument doesn’t fall flat on its face at the first hurdle when someone actually checks your version against the facts. Based on your own ‘lens of ignorance’ view on the Road Code and behaviour on the road, its not hard to determine why cyclists in general have such a crap reputation.
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June 7, 2011 8:41am

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