General Debate 14 June 2011

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Rodders

Hone is questioning the accuracy of the poll

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10732073

As if he would know !
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June 14, 2011 8:03am
Pete George

Party at Danyl’s place.

Pass it on.
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June 14, 2011 8:06am
flipper

So Labour’s Pressie wants the Privacy Commissioner to stop Whale (and DPF) poublishing a list of LP donors (etc.). Can’t recall the same complaint being made by Williams M. about Hagar’s use of Brash’s emails etc.
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June 14, 2011 8:27am
Murray

I have no doubt he’ll question the results of the election as well Rodders and accuse all of some kind of white mother fucker conspiracy to oppress the poor brown man.

And I’ll care as much then as I do now.
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June 14, 2011 8:32am
DT

Flipper said: “Can’t recall the same complaint being made by Williams M. about Hagar’s use of Brash’s emails etc.”

Well, presumably that is because Don Brash was doing so!
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June 14, 2011 8:33am
Manolo

I don’t feel sorry for the poor bastards:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/5139124/Labour-says-database-use-breaches-privacy/
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June 14, 2011 8:38am
berend

Where does the buck stop in the Labour party? We’ll know today.
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June 14, 2011 8:40am
flipper

DT…..
Are you suffering from them?
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June 14, 2011 8:41am
Manolo

More corruption found in the already rotten welfare state:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/article.cfm?c_id=30&objectid=10731881
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June 14, 2011 8:42am
Pete George

Don’t you get tired of talking yet again about party train wrecks? Do something about it instead.
Find an alternative. Create an alternative.

Danyl: A party that cannot run itself should not be allowed anywhere near the machinery of government.

How do you get competence near the machinery of government?

Get a competent party list designed to be able to run a country rather than run around in party circles?

Would a list be better if it was like a board of directors, the best people available to manage the country, and to manage the party? That doesn’t mean just business management, social management is as important.

What sort of people would be best for a party list?
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June 14, 2011 8:50am
peterwn

Manolo – I do feel for ordinary Labour members / donors. In this regard I consider that National should preach what it does – that is, it will not be vindictive public sector people merely because they are Labour Party donors or members. Even if some of these people will never vote National, they would be less likely to foul-mouth National eg some may well be saying “I think that John Key is a great Prime Minister but I will always vote Labour because mum and grandma did”.
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June 14, 2011 8:54am
Murray

The word Labour has decided we will all focus on this week is “privacy”

The words we should be looking at “systematic rort”.
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June 14, 2011 8:56am
Inventory2

Spin City at The Standard this morning

http://thestandard.org.nz/blown-up-in-nationals-faces/

Eddie’s taking a kicking
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June 14, 2011 8:56am
Murray

Eddie should be taking a summons.
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June 14, 2011 8:59am
pdm

I never visit the Standard – too scared of catching a nasty unsocial disease.
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June 14, 2011 9:06am
Manolo

A question for someone with a legal background: is it kosher to have the Parliamentary crest on those Labour-sponsored websites?

If taxpayers, yes, all of us, are funding this propaganda, what is the legality of it, and more importantly, what is the limit? Can anyone please shed some light on this matter? Cheers.
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June 14, 2011 9:07am
Manolo

I do feel for ordinary Labour members / donors.

peterwn, you obviously are a very, very generous man.
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June 14, 2011 9:09am
mikenmild

It seems to me that there are two separate issues here.

1.
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June 14, 2011 9:10am
mikenmild

It seems to me that there are two separate issues here:

1. Has there been a breach of privacy? Do we really want to have the details of individuals’ political donations? Even if this information is left wide open, as appears to be the case, should there be sanctions for publishing it?

2. The wider issue is about political funding. We have surely seen enough rorts over the years and it seems as though every party has had its share of embarassments in this regard. Is it time to make some simpler and more transparent rules? I’m not sure, for example, that it is at all helpful to have a distinction between ‘parliamentary’ and ‘political’ work. For politicians, everything they do is political. Another suggestion would be to adopt the recommendation to open parliamentary services to more scrutiny under the Official Infomation Act.

(Sorry for the botched comment above)
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June 14, 2011 9:17am
side show bob

Don’t understand piss all about websites but if the liarbore website had been used for backup data storage what other goodies could be on offer or is this as good as it gets? Good to see the smarmy bastards squirming for a change, fucking different story when the boot is on the other foot.
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June 14, 2011 9:23am
gravedodger

@ pdm 09 06, maybe it is a less developed risk attitude, but sometimes when bored shitless and desperate to take risks in spite of my assessment abilities, I mask and glove, put vicks under my nostrills (sop ambulance) and creep in. Try to not leave evidence and don’t stay long.
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June 14, 2011 9:24am
barry

Was watching a primary/int school boy tell about the earthquake.

A comment was that when the quake happened he said there was lots of crying AND THAT MORE BOYS WERE CRYING THAN GIRLS……

God – whats happening to this world – we are turn them into a bunch of fairies!!!!
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June 14, 2011 9:29am
Murray

Bring back cadet training in all school barry.
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June 14, 2011 9:39am
georgebolwing

On the issue raised by Manolo about the use of the parliamentary crest on Labour websites.

The rules about public funding of parliametary activities are here: http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/E7F3E3AF-6CAB-4AD2-ACA9-A13B284BDBD0/154482/SpeakersDirections2011.pdf

They were changed after the “Pledge card” issues, when it was found that parties had been using parliamentary funds for unapproved purposes.

Basic rules are:

a) MPs get public funds to do their job;
b) part of their job is communicating with their constitutants;
c) but they can’t be too blatant.

The detailed rules are in clause 5.15 and state:

Requirements to be met for cost of publicity to be paid from Vote: Parliamentary Service

(1) Publicity must—
(a) have a parliamentary purpose; and
(b) not contain electioneering; and
(c) be identified at the time of communication as having been paid for by the Parliamentary Service; and
(d) contain contact details of the member or party responsible for the publicity.

Clause (1)(c) is the rule that requires the Parliamentary Crest be put on anything that is funded out of Vote Parliamentary Services.
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June 14, 2011 9:44am
mikenmild

george

There must inevitably be a large overlap between parliamentary purposes and electioneering. For politicians, everything is electioneering. It seems an arbitrary distinction that will always be a source of contention and accusations of abuse.
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June 14, 2011 9:50am
Grendel

man they are really trying to spin this as a national party thing, when you know national had nothign to do with it and are probably wishing Cameron would stop, becuase they know that labour and the lazy msm will paint camerons actions as theirs and spin it as dirty tricks (as opposed to hollowmen etc which apparently was public right to know) and all sorts of other conspiracy.

they really have no respect for Camerons abilities or intelligence. while i hate most of labour i do not doubt their intelligence and cunning, its just misguided is all. i think they are making a mistake assuming cameron is an idiot.
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June 14, 2011 9:50am
pdm

Murray said (7799) – ‘Bring back cadet training in all school barry.’

I agree 100% and then follow it up with CMT for all school leavers.
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June 14, 2011 9:54am
Murray

All school levers not in paid employment within 6 months.

Carrot and stick pdm.
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June 14, 2011 9:57am
mikenmild

pdm

How about corporal punishment as well?
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June 14, 2011 9:58am
flipper

Labour’s continued improper use of Parliamentary fundings might best be described by quoting R. C. E. Wyndham –

” I’m reminded of a graffito inscribed on the wall of a Cambridge public loo:
I’m addicted to sadism, necrophilia and bestiality. Do you think I’m flogging a dead horse?”
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June 14, 2011 10:01am
starboard

“The California radio preacher who predicted the world would end last month is recuperating after suffering a mild stroke”

Hopefully it will shut the old geezer up…
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June 14, 2011 10:05am
Murray

Don’t ease me mike.
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June 14, 2011 10:07am
Pascal

It is amusing how aggressive the Standard is in what they allow and disallow. I’ll ask the question here though. What, to the mind of a Labour Party supporter, is the difference between:

1. National Party visiting Washington DC and the Labour Party getting advice from the Australian Labour Party?
2. The Exclusive Brethren paying for their own political commentary and the Labour Party using Parliamentary Services for Pledge Cards, Campaigning and a host of other activities?
3. An independant author stumbling across unsecured information and an independant author receiving unauthorised material for publication?

To me it seems simple. National bad. Labour good. One would wish they weren’t such blatant, hypocritcal bastards and that they’d actually focus on New Zealand. But sadly I’m starting to get the idea being honest is beyond them.
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June 14, 2011 10:07am
RightNow

Several days into the Palin email fishing expedition and no sign of anything malicious or illegal.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/opinion-zone/2011/06/best-sarah-palin-emails

I think she’ll be announcing a run for President any day now. There’s no skeletons left in her closet so she’s in a much stronger position than other candidates. The liberal media and the Democrats will be livid!
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June 14, 2011 10:08am
Oskar

And just for something completely different it is interesting to look at the clean-up the Japanese have achieved in three months since their tsunami. These are some before and after shots.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2001984/Japan-tsunami-earthquake-Pictures-recovery-3-months-later.html

I presume that they are also having aftershocks, and they are mostly dealing with the wreckage of low rise light construction – but at least from these photo’s they certainly have made a good start.
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June 14, 2011 10:09am
mikenmild

The Democrats would welcome Palin as a candidate. Try to imagine her debating Obama.
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June 14, 2011 10:11am
flipper

Miken …
The difference would be Obama’s use of the teleprompter (as opposed notes on her hands) , would it not?
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June 14, 2011 10:16am
starboard

Oskar (9) Says:
June 14th, 2011 at 10:09 am .

..and not one hard hat/fluro jacket/red zone/gerry brownlee to be seen..what does that tell ya ? PC / over zealous luddites are the problem down here in chc. Too much handwringing.
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June 14, 2011 10:16am
mikenmild

flipper

Palin’sdownside as a candidate would be exposing her to less friendly interviewers (not just Fox any more) and open debates where her ignorance would be on full display. That aside, she is a highly polarising figure even for Republicans, and unlikely to make it as the candidate they need to grow their vote.
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June 14, 2011 10:22am
RightNow

Try to imagine emails from Obama’s time as senator being scrutinised like Palin’s. That makes me laugh, it will never happen, he has too much too hide.
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June 14, 2011 10:22am
mikenmild

RightNow

What in particular would Obama have to hide?
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June 14, 2011 10:27am
RightNow

Do your own research mik, I’m not your dogsbody.
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June 14, 2011 10:39am
mikenmild

Right

Well if it’s hidden, how would I find it?
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June 14, 2011 10:43am
RightNow

Gee, how about an FOIA request like the one used to get Palin’s emails?
You could perhaps start with his relationship with Rezko including any property transactions they were involved in together.
Or if you want to go back further I suggest asking for his academic transcripts.
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June 14, 2011 10:50am
Mick Mac

Mildmike
tHATS THE POINT.
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June 14, 2011 11:09am
Mick Mac

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

It seems the UK might be coming to it’s senses in the classroom, no such luck down under.
John Key was great this morning at the MFC on parenting, pity he doesn’t have the balls to do the right thing on Fart tax.
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June 14, 2011 11:11am
lastmanstanding

Question to the lawyers out there. What if a donor to the LP laid a complaint with the Privacy Commissioner that the LP had failed to secure their site.

Is this possible and what is the law around this.
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June 14, 2011 11:32am
Rick Rowling

Bloody moon man didn’t predict that one.

Another fail for pseudoscience.
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June 14, 2011 11:32am
flipper

Miken…
1. If Palin is so dumb (and unlikely to unsettle “Obama Care”) as she is portrayed by MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NPR, TVNZ, BBC ..et al .. and the rest of the lamestream media such as Wash Post, NY Gripes – all recognised paragons of imparliaity in “:journalism” – why do they keep featuring her in absurd attempts to bury her?
2. Palin getting friendly interviews……. what planet do you live Miken?
3. The lamestream predicted her demise three years ago.
5. Would you back Goffie v Key ?
4. What was the quote about Livingstone And Stanley?
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June 14, 2011 11:40am
AlphaKiwi

Why do you guys give a fuck about Sarah Palin? She doesn’t give two fucks about you or New Zealand.

Put more of your energy into New Zealand politics. Pete George is leading by example. Whether you agree with him or not, he’s doing more than just talking. I’m going to offer some free web help and social media advice to him.
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June 14, 2011 12:05pm
Lazybum

When is wale going to release some names?
I am on leave and have time to spare to look at these individuals.
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June 14, 2011 12:43pm
redeye

Palin bagged so many from her own side in her book I’d doubt she’ll be able to recruit any support people of substance.

Surely the right can put forward someone more capable than her. Ron Paul in a wheel chair would be better.
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June 14, 2011 12:44pm
cha

Bachmann seeking nomination.
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June 14, 2011 1:23pm
Pete George

AlphaKiwi, thanks.

It’s not about agreeing or not with my view in debates on blogs.

Most people do agree with my main argument – that our politics is a trainwreck, and our options for November are bleak.

Unless we do something about it. It has to come from us, the plebs, because politicians are addicted to fighting, and they are addicted to putting self and party interests before the people they are supposed to be serving.

I don’t care if no one agrees with me on any issue, it’s much bigger than that.

I do care about the hopeless mess our politics is becoming. So all I want people here to agree to is we need to change things, make things change, do something about it.

Or resign ourselves to bitter bickering. I’ve had enough of that.

We will only change things if we change things. And we need to change ourselves first.
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June 14, 2011 1:47pm
krazykiwi

Yesterdays two big quakes have been upgraded, 5.5–>5.6 and 6.0 –> 6.3. Perhaps the last 9 months have seen GNS’s seismographs shaken beyond their design parameters!
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June 14, 2011 1:52pm
Sonny Blount

cha (982) Says:
June 14th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Bachmann seeking nomination.

Excellent! I’ll be watching today’s debate with interest.
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June 14, 2011 2:10pm
cha

Paul on CNN now.
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June 14, 2011 2:21pm
Jimbob

Here we go again. Graham Henry is keeping his options open after the rugby world cup.
Is there anyone else in NZ as arrogant as this guy?
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June 14, 2011 2:59pm
mikenmild

That’ll be Sir Graham to you, after the RWC.
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June 14, 2011 3:19pm
starboard

“Robbers bashed, bound and robbed a 67-year-old woman in her home in the third aggravated robbery in Kaipara in a month. The woman was tied up and repeatedly punched at her home by masked raiders who robbed her and took her car.
One offender is described as a Maori man, aged between 20-22 years, about 180cm tall, of slim build and softly spoken”

Bloody natives…wheres smith and weson when ya need ’em.
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June 14, 2011 3:23pm
Mick Mac

Of all the people I wouldn’t give control of the internet to, the UN is top of the list.
Mainly because it is a haven for tyrants, dictators and people who can’t spell human rights.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20101228/un-governments-future-of-the-internet-101230/20101230/?hub=TorontoNewHome
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June 14, 2011 3:51pm
Mick Mac

Pete George (10,151) Says:
June 14th, 2011 at 1:47 pm

Good idea, I suggest that we all agree to not vote Labour/Green/NZFirst/Dunne for 10 yrs to give the Nats time to sort out the mess Labour left us.

How about that?
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June 14, 2011 3:53pm
Pete George

I wouldn’t mind if enough people vote for Your NZ so we have enough check and balance.
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June 14, 2011 4:02pm
cha

$6.6 billion, gone.

After the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, the George W. Bush administration flooded the conquered country with so much cash to pay for reconstruction and other projects in the first year that a new unit of measurement was born.

Pentagon officials determined that one giant C-130 Hercules cargo plane could carry $2.4 billion in shrink-wrapped bricks of $100 bills. They sent an initial full planeload of cash, followed by 20 other flights to Iraq by May 2004 in a $12-billion haul that U.S. officials believe to be the biggest international cash airlift of all time.
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June 14, 2011 4:56pm
starboard

from NZCPR weekly..

“The sad fact is that while most New Zealanders believe that the proceeds of public assets transferred to corporate Maori through the Treaty settlement process are being used to look after the whole iwi, this is not the case. Long ago iwi leaders realised that race-based claims of disadvantage could work in their favour – not only did they attract substantial government funding, but they also guaranteed the on-going fawning and pandering of politicians seeking to outdo each other by providing never-ending benefits to Maori organisations that were already awash with money. In fact in 2006 the Labour government even went so far as to change the law to allow the commercial arm of Maori tribes to be granted charitable exemptions so they don’t have to pay income tax on their business profits! This is in addition to the long-standing special tax status of Maori authorities which sees them paying a lower rate of 19.5 percent than all other businesses, which must pay 28 percent.”
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June 14, 2011 5:11pm
David Garrett

Well Starboard, console yourself (it is no consolation to the poor victim, at least not at the moment) that when they catch the prick(s) – and that is usually just a matter of time with these kind of offenders – they will rack up their first strike…not a total solution, but better than the kind of crap response we had, and the even worse crap we were heading for prior to 1 June 2010…

Oh, and to forestall comment on my phrase “these kind of offenders” I mean “young violent males who are so badly organized and dumb they use the victims car to leave the scene”…
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June 14, 2011 5:20pm
starboard

..and you sir are to be thanked for bringing in the 3 strikes legislation. Well done.
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June 14, 2011 5:39pm
Johnboy

“One offender is described as a Maori man, aged between 20-22 years, about 180cm tall, of slim build and softly spoken”

Come to think of it where is CoffeeAuLaitWithAStingInHisTail today? 🙂
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June 14, 2011 6:11pm
Nookin

Beigewithasenseofpurpose is out looking for his dog. It’s a black lab called Snowball.
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June 14, 2011 6:15pm
starboard

isnt it funny how they all disappear when the facts are placed in front of them..
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June 14, 2011 6:15pm
pdm

I see that Graham Henry will make a decision about his coaching future in November.

Given that this man and his cohorts were past their use by dates when they went out in the quarter finals in 2007 this would be an absolute disaster. The All Black Coaches’ positions should not be sinecures for old men.

The reason for the success of the All Blacks over the years has been the rotation of coaches and selectors bringing new ideas to the role and the team. These days we look at the same old, old and if the World Cup is not won Henry would be best to disappear into the bush.
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June 14, 2011 6:27pm
nasska

A tourist wanders into a back-alley antique shop in Wellington’s Cuba St. Picking through the objects on display he discovers a detailed, life-sized bronze sculpture of a rat. The sculpture is so interesting and unique that he picks it up and asks the shop owner what it costs.

“Twelve dollars for the rat, sir,” says the shop owner, “and a thousand dollars more for the story behind it.”

“You can keep the story, old man,” he replies, “but I’ll take the rat.”

The transaction complete, the tourist leaves the store with the bronze rat under his arm. As he crosses the street in front of the store, two live rats emerge from a sewer drain and fall into step behind him. Nervously looking over his shoulder, he begins to walk faster, but every time he passes another sewer drain, more rats come out and follow him. By the time he’s walked two blocks, at least a hundred rats are at his heels, and people begin to point and shout. He walks even faster, and soon breaks into a trot as multitudes of rats swarm from sewers, basements, vacant lots, and abandoned cars. Rats by the thousands are at his heels, and as he sees the waterfront at the bottom of the hill, he panics and starts to run full tilt.

No matter how fast he runs, the rats keep up, squealing hideously, now not just thousands but millions, so that by the time he comes rushing up to the water’s edge a trail of rats twelve city blocks long is behind him. Making a mighty leap, he jumps up onto a light post, grasping it with one arm while he hurls the bronze rat into Wellington Harbour with the other, as far as he can heave it. Pulling his legs up and clinging to the light post, he watches in amazement as the seething tide of rats surges over the edge of the wharf into the sea, where they drown.

Shaken and mumbling, he makes his way back to the antique shop.

“Ah, so you’ve come back for the rest of the story,” says the owner.

“No,” says the tourist, “I was wondering if you have a bronze lawyer.”
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June 14, 2011 6:28pm
pdm

Ooh I got done by the editor and told I did not have authority to edit my post – why?
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June 14, 2011 6:33pm
nickb

You couldn’t amke up how incompetent Labour have been this week.

The only thing funnier is how Eddie has been so Orwellian in pretending any kind of hacking or tampering has gone on… it makes me despair for humanity that there are dumbfucks stupid enough to believe everything they read at the standard…. makes the MSM look like paragons of virtue by comparison
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June 14, 2011 6:35pm
Johnboy

“The All Black Coaches’ positions should not be sinecures for old men.”

pdm: If it has worked for, The Bench, The Papacy, The C of E, Parliament, Boards of Directors, The Civil Service, City Councils, Formula One, Fifa, The UN, The Olympic Comittee, The Masons, etc. What makes you think it won’t work for the Blacks (sorry, Diggers) ? 🙂
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June 14, 2011 6:42pm
Johnboy

“No,” says the tourist, “I was wondering if you have a bronze lawyer.” 🙂

Fairly Ethical Smith will be available for bronze once the gold called legal aid runs out! 🙂 🙂
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June 14, 2011 6:48pm
nasska

A lawyer dies on his 40th birthday and finds himself
greeted at the Pearly Gates by a brass band.
Saint Peter runs over, shakes his hand and says “Congratulations!!!”
“Congratulations for what?” asks the lawyer.
“Congratulations for what?!?!?” says Saint Peter.
“We’re celebrating the fact that you lived to be 760
years old.”

“But that’s not true,” says the lawyer. “I was shot on
my 40th birthday!.”
“That’s impossible,” says Saint Peter.
“We’ve added up the time you billed.”
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June 14, 2011 6:57pm
Johnboy

I hired that bastard once nasska.

I’d have shot him myself if the queue wasn’t so long.

Can’t believe the prick made it to heaven!
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June 14, 2011 7:01pm
Elaycee

@nasska “We’ve added up the time you billed.”

Haha – thats good. I know of a certain wedding coming up where that’ll go down a treat. Perfect timing – thanks.
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June 14, 2011 7:12pm
nasska

A gang of robbers broke into a lawyer’s club by mistake. The old legal lions gave them a fight for their life and their money. The gang was very happy to escape.

“It ain’t so bad,” one crook noted. “We got $25 between us.”

The boss screamed: “I warned you to stay clear of lawyers — we had $100 when we broke in!”
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June 14, 2011 7:14pm
Longknives

PDM and Johnboy- But surely the All Black’s inevitible demise will the fault of a crooked Referee?? Or maybe a food-poisoning waitress?? There is no way our pampered, prima-donna heroes could lose to a better team…surely??
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June 14, 2011 7:22pm
Tauhei Notts

I am surprised at all the jokes about lawyers.
The lawyers I know are all very fine people.
Also the car dealers that I know.
But the real estate agents; they are the scum of society. They just cannot help themselves with their incessant lying and deviousness. Gentlemen whose truthfulness you doubt a bit.
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June 14, 2011 8:04pm
cha

Conspiracy theory of the day.

Less than a year ago, in July 2010, Huma Abedin married Jewish U.S. Representative Anthony Weiner (D-NY). Attesting to the strength of her relationship with the Clintons, former President William J. Clinton officiated at the ceremony. Not unlike President Obama, the Clintons, as well as powerful politicos such as George Soros, are devotes of Saul Alinksy, who is considered “the founder of modern Community Organizing.” From my position, I clearly see that the actions of this group signal their socialist agenda, which includes domination of the U.S. by a Muslim ruled world.
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June 14, 2011 8:46pm
Johnboy

How can anyone named Weiner send photos of his dick to people?

I could understand if he was called Salami or Luncheon. 🙂
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June 14, 2011 8:50pm
cha

Saveloy, poloni, chippolatta …..
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June 14, 2011 8:55pm
mikenmild

cha

You went to the Washington Times for news? Seriously?
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June 14, 2011 8:56pm
Johnboy

Black Pudding perhaps? (or the PC equiv). 🙂
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June 14, 2011 8:57pm
cha

You went to the Washington Times for news? Seriously?

Nah, like WND, for giggles.
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June 14, 2011 9:09pm
redeye

Man phones his lawyer and asks “How much is it for 3 questions”?

“$500.00” the Lawyer replied.

“That’s a lot of money isn’t it” the bloke said.

“I suppose so.” replied the Lawyer. “What’s your third question”?
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June 14, 2011 9:23pm
Viking2

Warning for those on Skype.

New Indian attack.
While working away up comes a call dijack (who I don’t know) on goes the spiel. Your computer is compromised etcetc, logon to wwwbla bla bla. to secure your computer.

Must have got tired of rude Kiwi’s so this way they don’t have to talk to them. How they got my number on skype God knows but it must be possible to tell skype.
Oh no
Microsoft are going to own them.
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June 14, 2011 9:23pm
cha

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars
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June 14, 2011 9:29pm
Viking2

Alcohol Issues – drink driving

· A new way to avoid any DIC alcohol issues while driving:

I went out with some friends last night and had a few too many

Knowing that I was wasted, I did something that I have never done before… I took a bus home!

I arrived home safe and warm, which seemed really surprising as I have never driven a bus before.
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June 14, 2011 9:31pm
Viking2

Paddy was waiting at the bus stop with his mate when a lorry went by loaded up with rolls of turf.

Paddy said, ‘I gonna do that when I win lottery’.

‘What’s dat’, says his mate.

‘Send me lawn away to be cut’, says Paddy.
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June 14, 2011 9:32pm
double d

full moon tonite
lots of rumbles
…
just saying
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June 14, 2011 10:50pm
RightNow

Viking2: ” A new way to avoid any DIC alcohol issues while driving:”

For a second there (and because I just finished watching a crime show that mentioned it) I thought you were going to suggest soaking tampons in vodka and taking it as a suppository. Beats the Breathalyzer apparently.
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June 14, 2011 11:04pm
Manolo

Slip of the tongue: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ee00cd993c4221a5ac150a9aab17ca0b.601&show_article=1
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June 15, 2011 6:35am
Viking2

The Scandal That passes for National Politics.

A SCANDAL OF WASTED OPPORTUNITY

The 70 job losses announced last week by KiwiRail in Dunedin and Wellington, and the 41 from Yarrows bakery in South Taranaki are reminders of how difficult business conditions are in New Zealand at the present time. Herald reporter Simon Collins spelt it out in a story on Saturday that outlined the problems faced in Northland – the region with the country’s highest rate of unemployment. At 9.8 percent at the end of the March quarter, Northland’s unemployment rate is almost 2 percentage points above the next-highest regions of Auckland and Gisborne/Hawkes Bay. With unemployment amongst young people aged 18 to 24 running at 29 percent and amongst Maori at 48 percent, more than half of all young Maori in Northland are on welfare.

Haami Pipiri, the leader of the Northland iwi Te Rarawa, claimed that the shocking rate of unemployment amongst Maori youth indicated that Maori have been “marginalised”. He said, “The feature of that experience has been the development of our economy in this region without us”.[1]

What he failed to mention is the vast amounts of Treaty-related money that has gone into the region. The Crown Forestry Rental Trust alone has pumped over $20 million into Northland over the years to help iwi prepare their Treaty of Waitangi claims. A further $13 million has been provided directly to Northland claimants over the last three years. In addition, tribes have received a share of the millions of dollars in funding provided by the Office of Treaty Settlements and the legal aid system each year.

Documents from the Crown Forestry Rental Trust show that Te Rarawa received over $1.2 million during the last three years to help prepare their Treaty claim.[2] Their settlement will be worth $20 million in taxpayer funds and assets. As well as cash, they will receive forests, a local Court House and Police Station, 10 local schools, and two Landcorp farms (along with a number of other deals that include changing the names of Northland towns, harbours and beaches).[3]

In addition to land claims, the Treaty of Waitangi fisheries settlement gave Maori 37 percent of the country’s total fishing quota, which is currently worth $4 billion. Iwi allocations were based on their population and share of the coastline. The eight iwi in Taitokerau in the North received almost $30 million in cash and shares, with Te Rarawa gaining a $7 million asset base. In 2005, Northland-based Ngapuhi alone received the equivalent of $67 million for its fisheries settlement.[4]

What all of this means is that talk of Maori marginalisation is self-serving nonsense. A recent government report estimated the total value of Maori corporate assets at a whopping $37 billion.[5] Thanks to the generosity of New Zealand taxpayers, the Maori aristocracy has become very rich, and is getting richer. Maori leaders could use their vast resources to lift the performance and aspirations of their people. They choose not to.

The sad fact is that while most New Zealanders believe that the proceeds of public assets transferred to corporate Maori through the Treaty settlement process are being used to look after the whole iwi, this is not the case. Long ago iwi leaders realised that race-based claims of disadvantage could work in their favour – not only did they attract substantial government funding, but they also guaranteed the on-going fawning and pandering of politicians seeking to outdo each other by providing never-ending benefits to Maori organisations that were already awash with money. In fact in 2006 the Labour government even went so far as to change the law to allow the commercial arm of Maori tribes to be granted charitable exemptions so they don’t have to pay income tax on their business profits! This is in addition to the long-standing special tax status of Maori authorities which sees them paying a lower rate of 19.5 percent than all other businesses, which must pay 28 percent.

The elitism of iwi leaders is reflected in what is going on with their fisheries settlement. While iwi own almost 40 percent of New Zealand’s entire quota, instead of providing employment opportunities on fishing boats and in processing plants for thousands of unemployed Maori, most of the 57 iwi who jointly own the quota use foreign crewed fishing vessels and process the fish in factories in China. The ageing fishing boats are manned by crew who are forced to work under sweat-shop conditions earning as little as $65 a week. According to industry sources, the catch is then shipped to China where it is processed using Chinese labour, labelled as a New Zealand product and sold in our supermarkets – as if it had never left our shores.

The dreadful conditions on these fishing boats came into focus last year when the 38-year-old FCV Oyang 70 sank in August with the loss of 6 lives. That was followed by the sinking of the 31-year-old No 1 Insung in December, with the death of 22 crew. In an exposé in the Sunday Star Times last month, Michael Field outlined how Ngapuhi has a 50/50 joint venture company Northland Deepwater JV Ltd (with an Auckland firm DSM Ltd), which has lobbied to be able to keep using aging foreign vessels. Hawkes Bay’s Ngati Kahungunu now deals through Northland Deepwater, while Tainui and Ngati Porou also use foreign vessels. Under their Treaty settlements Maori formed the pan-tribal Aotearoa Fisheries Limited, which has a 50 percent shareholding in Sealord Fisheries, which also uses foreign vessels. The rest of the shares are held by Nissui, a major shareholder in Japan’s Antarctic whaling fleet.[6]

When asked about the foreign vessel scandal, the Minister of Maori Affairs, Pita Sharples said that he was concerned that 60,000 young New Zealanders were out of work, but that he understood the reason iwi weren’t catching their own quota was that “many Maori find it hard to be out for long periods of time away from their whanau”!

There is no doubt at all that the abolition of the youth wage (which paid 16 and 17 year old workers 80 percent of the adult minimum wage) by the Labour Government in 2007 has made New Zealand’s youth unemployment problem much worse. I asked this week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator Alasdair Thompson, the Chief Executive of the Employers and Manufacturers Association, to share his view of the impact of that law change:

“Six years ago when the Labour government was planning to abolish minimum pay rates for youth, our organisation, the Employers and Manufacturers Association (EMA), said the move was certain to hurt the very people it was intended to help. So it has proved.

“In 2005 EMA said if the Bill introduced to Parliament on February 22nd became law, the unemployment rate then at 12 per cent for 15 to 19 year olds, was very likely to rise. Regrettably our prediction was way off beam. Youth rates of unemployment have more than doubled to 27.5 per cent of those unemployed.

“They are still rising; over the past year the youth unemployment rate went up 2.3 per cent from 25.2 per cent in 2010, at a time when unemployment overall declined slightly. This rate of unemployment for young people represents a terrible risk for the future of all of us. Its coming at a time of life for these young people when they need to establish regular work habits and learn the basic skills needed to hold down a job with prospects.

“When young people leave school they find it hard enough to get started; earning a minimum youth rate often got a teenager’s career underway. Besides, for an employer with a choice between an experienced worker and an inexperienced worker it makes sense for them to take on the experienced worker every time.” To read Alasdair’s full article Young people need youth rates of pay, click the sidebar link>>>>

New Zealand’s high rate of teenage unemployment is a national disgrace. It has been estimated that Labour’s abolition of the youth wage could have cost over 9,000 jobs. As a result, many young people are now condemned to live on benefits for the equivalent of $4.70 an hour, when they could have been earning a living for $10.40 an hour. For a young person, getting their foot onto the bottom rung of the employment ladder is a crucial first step, as that entry-level job gives them the skills and workplace experience to get a better job at a higher rate of pay.

The tragedy is that many unemployed young people have been doubly penalised by government policy: first they are forced to attend schools where they are educated so poorly that they leave without the skills necessary to get a good job, and then secondly, they are prevented from working for an employer who would be prepared to provide them with on-the-job training – in return for paying lower wages.

When considering the issue of minimum wages, it is important to remember that essentially wages are the payment workers receive for the productive services that they provide to others. As workers become more experienced and efficient, their services increase in value, driving up their wages. It is their increased output that helps to lift living standards.

However, when wages are increased by government decree – such as the major rise in the minimum wage from $13 to $15 an hour promised by the Labour Party if they win the election – productive output will decline. This means that in spite of the promises, raising the minimum wage will not lift overall living standards. While employees on the minimum wage would obviously gain a pay rise, the Department of Labour has estimated that around 6,000 workers would lose their jobs as employers who can no longer afford to hire them at the higher rates of pay, would be forced to let them go. To make matters worse, not only would unemployed workers find it even harder to get a job, but consumers would be forced to pay more for goods and services as businesses increase prices to cover the additional cost of labour. Since higher prices mean a lower demand for those goods and services, rather than being the panacea claimed by unions and some politicians, minimum wage increases have a detrimental overall impact on the economy, because they fail to lift productive output.

At a time when so many New Zealanders are in desperate need of jobs, the revelation that the elite of Maoridom are prepared to leave Maori on benefits and their families at risk, by sending New Zealand fish to be processed in China, comes as a shock. After years of providing on-going funding and tax privileges to iwi corporations, taxpayers have been fooled into thinking that the whole iwi would share in the benefits. However we now find that instead of creating employment for their people in the fishing industry, thousands of foreign crew and many thousands of Chinese workers are doing the job that unemployed Maori could be doing. Corporate iwi should have to explain to the New Zealand public, why they prefer their young people to go to WINZ instead of going to work – why are they prepared to see young Maori sitting around smoking dope and growing cash crops, when they could be gainfully employed in a Maori fishing industry with meaningful jobs and the hope of a better future? It is this wasted opportunity that is the real scandal.

http://www.nzcpr.com

Sober Thinking.
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June 15, 2011 6:37am
mikenmild

Viking 2

A ling, thought-provoking comment. I’ve just a couple of points.

Minimum wage
DPF blogged a couple of days ago about a Dominion Post article from the Centre for Independent Studies. Unsurprisingly, given the authorship, the article made the case that abolishing youth minimum rates had harmed youth unemployment. I was able to note yesterday that a contrary opinion had appeared in the Dominion Post, in an article from CTU economist Bill Rosenberg.

It seems to me that economic opinion on this issue tends to follow the existing biases of the authors. So what are we to think. In a number of posts I’ve tried to make the case that it should be seen as a matter of workplace fairness and rights, rather than rely on the contested evidence of employment effects.

Maori assets
It’s probably a good thing that Maori-held assets are increasing. At the very least it shows that the assets transferred under Treaty settlements have been retained and had value added. Whether $37 billion in assets held by Maori authorities is sufficient to expect it to make a significant contribution to the social and economic status of Maori communities is another question. I’m not sure what the total asset value of New Zealand would be, but $37 billion would be a small percentage, certainly not sufficient to make much difference if spread over 15-20% of the population.
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June 15, 2011 8:04am
Elaycee

Milkmilo says: “”In a number of posts I’ve tried to make the case that it should be seen as a matter of workplace fairness and rights, rather than rely on the contested evidence of employment effects.”

So the Centre for Business Studies’ view should be balanced against that of the unionist Bill Rosenberg (with regard to the minimum wage / youth wage). Wow! Clearly you don’t understand the role of the CFBS. Best you go and have a look, eh? And then weigh their opinion against that of a Unionist with the overt agenda of pushing for an increase in the MHR to $15 per hour hour. FFS!

Several posters have already pointed out to you the various reasons why the removal of the youth wage will have a natural consequence for the number of youth out of work. Its not hard to understand, so please go back and have another read before you make more daft comments.

The trouble with lefties in general, is that you haven’t got a clue about running a business. It doesn’t stop you from telling us how to do it – but its business owners and business managers who have the ‘at risk’ investment in the business.

In fact, all you’ve proven once again, is that you have no grasp of basic economics. You seem to get most of your ideas from either the Wikipedia website or the Stranded – do you really have a job?

You seem to specialise in dog whistling – perhaps you could get a job on a farm somewhere.
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June 15, 2011 8:42am
mikenmild

Elaycee

Such vitriol. I am concernedforyou – is everything alright at home?

Yes, I use wikipedia a lot. As it is a contestable forum and relies on cited sources and debate for consensus to emerge, it is a superb resource and one which gets better each day. I’m more than happy to debate any specifics – such as the details of the Dambusters raid – but you weren’t correct about that one so I can see that you would be annoyed with yourself.

Re the minimum wage, I’m not hostile to the interests of employers and business owners. It is quite natural to seek to reduce costs for any business, including labour costs. All I have pointed out is that the effects of wage regulation remains a contested area. I have not asserted for myself that minimum wages have no effect on employment; just that those effects are by no means certain. Everyone can agree on the basic principle that artificially raising a price will diminish demand, but the relationship between wages and employment is not that clear cut.

Anyway, I’m happy to debate this, that’s what the site is for.

BTW, I really would appreciate less name calling and use of my preferred name. Basic courtesy costs nothing, but produces useful dividends.
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June 15, 2011 9:12am

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